Bernie Sanders

Paul Ryan vs. Bernie Sanders on College Entitlements

God forbid, Bernie becomes our 45th president, who will stand in his way?



Presidential candidate and Vermont Senator Bernie Sanders (D) penned an op-ed in The Washington Post this week headlined, "Make College Free For All."

"A college degree is the new high school diploma," and since high school is free, Sanders reasoned, college should be too:

Today, it would take a minimum wage worker an entire year to earn enough to cover the annual in-state tuition at a public university. And that's why so many bright young people don't go to college, don't finish or graduate deeply in debt. With $1.3 trillion in student loans, Americans are carrying more student debt than credit card or auto-loan debt. That's a tragedy for our young people and for our nation.

Reason's Scott Shackford wrote a great rebuttal to Bernie's op-ed. Here's an excerpt:

[Y]ou won't see any discussion in Sanders commentary about why college prices have exploded far above and beyond increases in the consumer price index or even the costs of healthcare. There will be no discussion of how subsidies and administrative bloat have massively driven up prices and eliminated any incentives for colleges to restrain costs. It's just a thing that happened.

God forbid, Bernie becomes our 45th president, who will stand in his way?

Back in 2009, when Obama was pushing a more benign plan to boost government aid for college students, Michael Moynihan sat down with Rep. Paul Ryan (R-Wis.) to get his take. Now that Ryan is running to be House speaker, and Bernie is talking about making college free altogether, the story is relevant again.

Take a look:

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    1. Odessa, Ukraine, the force really has been awakened with a statue of Vladimir Lenin being converted into one of the dark lord himself, Darth Vader.

      While the rest of the world was trying to figure out what The Force Awakens trailer reveals about the new film, artist Alexander Milov ? whose work appeared at Burning Man this year ? was busy creating what he claims is the world’s first-ever monument to Vader (the Sith lord formerly known as Anakin Skywalker).

      Milov transformed the Soviet-era statue after new legislation (the “decommunisation” laws) came into force in Ukraine, which demands all remnants and symbols of the country’s communist past be taken down.
      Reports claim the original statue was made of gypsum, which had weakened over time, with Milov strengthening the structure and adding a helmet and cape made of titanium alloy.

      Because of course it was. It’s almost like someone with no profit motive will put in the least amount of effort* and not care about the quality of their work.

      *Gypsum is extremely soft, and hence carves easily, but it also wears quickly as well, so it’s usually used for smaller sculptures that are intended to be displayed indoors.

  1. It’s a failure of our public schools that they’re not adequately indoctrinating our children in the supremacy of the state and its will, and we’re forced to send young people to higher education institution to make them good citizens who vote correctly.

    The only question we have to address is whether the war on truancy from college will be waged by federal agents or will local law enforcement be mandated through grants to round up those not attending their now required classes.

  2. “A college degree is the new high school diploma,”

    And a high-school diploma is the new participation trophy.

    We have the finest education system in the world – one taking ever more money and ever more resources to turn out a ever more crappy product and still somehow turning their failure into a successful argument for even more money and resources – so how can anybody claim the system doesn’t work? What other business can do so much less with so much more and have their customers blaming themselves for being cheapskate child-hating miserable bastards for daring to complain?

  3. “”A college degree is the new high school diploma,””

    i.e. worthless?

    And why has a college degree become so devalued, while costs have massively increased?

  4. The idea that a high-school diploma is “Free” should also be welcome news to all the property-tax-paying homeowners in America. I suppose the people who moved to extremely expensive areas to benefit from their completely-coincidentally-awesome schools will be expecting their refund checks any day now?

    1. Bern’s supporters either don’t pay taxes or don’t worry about it.

  5. Free college? Wait until teachers and the staff hears about this

  6. The Democrat party would be gone if Republicans weren’t so myopic about social issues. In all religions that I am aware of God saves judgment for himself.

    1. Not a chance. There has to be a duopoly to prevent the rise of real opposition. If there’s no Eastasia to fight, we might start paying attention to how badly the party rank and file gets screwed.

      1. I think it’s more of a game theory problem than a conspiracy by the parties. People tend to cluster into bigger, broader ideological camps for the logical reason that there’s strength in numbers, even if it reduces the influence of one’s smaller particular ideology within the camp: it’s better to be a marginal voice among the rulers than the loudest voice in the opposition; but, in a democracy, there is no point in having more than 50.1% of the vote, as that’s just wasted sacrifices you need to make to those people to get them into your camp; so, political coalitions naturally tend to grow until they are just large enough to take the majority, and no larger, which is why in democracies, almost without exception, even when the system isn’t rigged toward a two party system, a de facto two party system still emerges.

        1. Bingo. Game theory for the win.

    2. I think you’re underestimating the power of Free Shit.

    3. Libertarians might be more successful if they were not so myopic about open borders.

  7. I’ve made $64,000 so far this year w0rking 0nline and I’m a full time student. I’m using an 0nline business opportunity I heard about and I’ve made such great m0ney. It’s really user friendly and I’m just so happy that I found out about it. Here’s what I’ve been doing?

  8. Obama on the Power of Positive Thinking

    Likens Republicans to “Grumpy Cat”, ‘crazy people’ for fixating on Hillary Lies, and gets a solid workout patting-himself-on-the-back for things that were mostly a process of standing around and waiting for the economy to recover.

    1. Or totally not true. I love how we can claim unemployment is down simply by redefining unemployment to mean only people who are still looking for jobs while ignoring those who have just given up. Or how enrolling a bunch of people in Medicaid equals “increasing access” to healthcare, whatever the hell that means. Or even more ridiculously (I can’t believe that’s possible) claiming credit for fracking’s success, which his party did nothing whatsoever to cause. It’s bullshit tortoises all the way down.

      1. claiming credit for fracking’s success

        The heads of a hundred thousand artisanal mayonnaise makers in Brooklyn just exploded.

        1. The heads of a hundred thousand artisanal mayonnaise makers in Brooklyn just exploded.

          So that’s what been causing all those earthquakes!

      2. “”claiming credit for fracking’s success,””

        /Dear Leader

        1. Not taking is giving, bitches.

  9. Kabul Afghanistan University Launches First Women’s Studies Program

    I presume it largely consists of, “when they hit puberty, put bag on them, lock them indoors until old”

    1. You aren’t familiar with RAWA, I take it?

      1. I’m shocked that their founder was martyred.

      2. No. Wow, I am just SO SURPRISED Jezebel hasn’t been promoting their GoFundMe or something….

        Last week the people of Kabul witnessed, yet again, the brutality, barbarism, and misogyny of the Jehadi and Hitler kind. Farkhunda, a young girl was beaten to pieces by a gang of inhuman cowards in broad daylight and in the presence of the police. Her body was later burnt. With all the misogynistic acts that have been committed against our women in the past few decades by the traitorous Jehadi and Taliban fundamentalists, such a horrendous incident has not happened, not even in the past hundred years. The question every conscious person of this land with a conscience asks is why, despite the deafening propaganda of ‘women’s rights’ and the influx of millions of Dollars for this purpose, do we still witness barbarism in a way never seen before? The answer is clear: in the past fourteen years the US has placed the most misogynist and criminal people in its puppet government and given them protection from prosecution and accountability.”

        Recall, Hillary pumped a cool 1.5 billion or so in the name of “Women’s Rights” in Afghanistan. i’m sure it all went to good causes, regardless, and she’s “very proud” of her accompishments.

        1. “the US has placed the most misogynist and criminal people in its puppet government”

          And then ecouraged the women to attract their sadistic attentions.

        2. Everything that Hillary! did as Secretary of State was “smart power at its best”.

        3. Feminism long ago gave up being about women and became part of the standard leftist agenda, hence the unconcern with the treatment of women by any Muslim or any Democrat. Being concerned about any of that would put them on the side of libertarians or conservatives or Christians and all the other Wrong People. Can’t have that! Sorry, female victims of Islam, or of the Clintons, or of the Kennedys!

    2. I assume we are paying for their Woman’s Studies program?

      1. bien s?r!

        unless you can pay your tuition in opium.

  10. If you’ve ever wondered what a cop has to do to even risk being fired….

    1. Letting someone’s dog live?

    2. He put someone else’s testicles in his mouth? What a Flaig.

      1. He looks like someone that would do that.

      2. What’s with the “else”?

          1. I’m not clicking that

              1. …hugely disappointed.

                  1. HM, I think he was looking for something more like this.

                    1. @CJ

                      No. Just… no.

                  2. Needs less standing around. And way less music.

                    1. Now we’re getting somewhere.

          2. Is that rape?

    3. It still took nearly five months to get rid of him.

  11. Long past time to abolish that college shit.

    1. Agreed. If you believe yourself to be CEO material, you shouldn’t have to acquire expensive and useless degrees. You should apprentice yourself directly to a CEO, and learn CEOey things firsthand. As a public service, video of your learning experience should be made freely available to any and all who are interested.

  12. College, like homeownership before it, went from a metric to a target.

    “Wealthier people own instead of rent. Therefore if everyone owns and no one rents, we’ll all be wealthy.”

    “Wealthy groups send more of their kids to college. If we send everyone’s kids to college, we’ll make them all wealthy.”

    So we subsidize these things. Turns out they don’t cause wealth, so we add another plausible cause to the list.

    My prediction is that the next thing they’ll try is one of:

    – International Volunteering and Unpaid Internships
    – Organic/Free-range food
    – Psychological counselling

    1. The government decides to try to increase the middle class by subsidizing things that middle class people have: If middle class people go to college and own homes, then surely if more people go to college and own homes, we’ll have more middle class people. But homeownership and college aren’t causes of middle-class status, they’re markers for possessing the kinds of traits ? self-discipline, the ability to defer gratification, etc. ? that let you enter, and stay in, the middle class. Subsidizing the markers doesn’t produce the traits; if anything, it undermines them. One might as well try to promote basketball skills by distributing expensive sneakers.


      1. “One might as well try to promote basketball skills by distributing expensive sneakers.”

        Or improve health by subsidizing some peoples’ insurance…

        1. Indeed. My eyes hate me. Give me money

        2. ^Yup to everyone above. The latest example: “Let’s move poor people out of these inner cities, where it’s hip again to live, and move them out to the suburbs! Preferably where Republicans live! That’ll show ’em, and we need to spread Democrats around to dilute GOP strongholds. We’ve got more votes than we need in the cities, and need more room there for illegals, anyway!”

    2. Psychological counselling

      I’m imagining a world where psychological counseling is a human right and a universally available service. What was once a luxury good? buying a sympathetic priest for a $100 an hour? is now mandatory for every parolee and social misfit The upper classes look upon their once obsession with therapy as a fashion, as meaningful as chrome on cars, and as distasteful as sweatpants in public. They toughen the fuck up and make self-mastery a goal, and broadcast that ethic to the masses.

      Who am I kidding? What follows is a new more exclusive age of shamanism and quinoa is marketed as a superfood.

    3. Bad news… They’re already pushing the Unpaid Internship. Colleges are raising funds (and some grants already exist) so that EVERYONE can participate in unpaid internships for appropriately worthy organizations (which do not include evil corporations and capitalists – they must be forced to pay interns, even if the interns are willing to work for free). But for “worthy” organizations it’s a) not fair to make them pay and b) it’s not fair to make the students work for free. Therefore it’s only logical that other people’s money must be used to pay students for unpaid internships.

      I wish I was kidding.

  13. A college degree is NOT the new high school diploma, and high school is NOT free Berntard, you fucking idiot. Also, you actually complete a high school diploma these days without knowing jack fucking shit, even lacking the ability to read and write above moron level.

    Now here’s the deal, most McCollege degrees being churned out today are completely worthless (see Tony for indisputable evidence). The STEM degrees that actually are worth something, most of those will soon be completed at home or at least the learning part, a lot of smart people, you know, the type who go into STEM fields, will forgo conventional degrees altogether. University campuses are going to become something more resembling lunatic asylums who normal people will avoid like the plague if things continue on the current path.

    Yes, this will not happen overnight, but it’s going to happen.

    1. Unfortunately you still have corporate HR departments that can’t distiquush between credentials and qualifications.

      1. Unfortunately you still have corporate HR departments that can’t distiquush between credentials and qualifications.

        Modern corporate HR is just an ass-covering move necessitated by the courts slapping ruinous fines on anyone who dares to hire or fire people based upon anything other than meaningless credentials.

        1. The new IQ test. Make kids spend years in propaganda factories and see if they can withstand the barrage. It’s brilliant in a way. How much did you reject the crap they tried to force feed you? Almost all? You’re hired.

      2. Unfortunately you still have corporate HR departments that can’t distiquush between credentials and qualifications.

        I know typos happen, and I’m not normally one to call attention to them. But that one is too awesome not to mention.

  14. “A college degree is the new high school diploma.”

    Government made the high school diploma “free”, and it became worthless.

    Now Bernie wants to do the same thing with college.

  15. OT: I saw Rand earlier this evening on CNN. Is he still chasing Sweater Vest voters? Just stop it already, Rand, why do you think you’re still only polling at 5-6%? He needs some good coaching and he’s got the wrong people.

    1. I am not clicking on that.

      1. Then you’re missing out on incontrovertible video evidence that Agile Cyborg is, in reality, a British woman.

        1. Needs moar tape measures.

      2. Go on Rhywun, click the link. You know you want to.

  16. I am grateful to Bernie Sanders for his presidential campaign because now it is so much easier for me to spot the economic dimwits in my social circles.

    1. You mean cheerleading Obamacare wasn’t indicative enough?

  17. OT:

    RB’s “End of Doom”, assuming AGW and discussing the costs of various responses.
    A Yale prof, William Nordhaus makes estimates of several ‘paths’, and then Ron tosses in that “…Nordhaus observes “Most philosophers and economists hold that rich generations have a lower ethical claim on resources than poorer generations”.” And offers no comment.

    I’m not sure the claim of consensus is true, and even if it is, I see nothing in logic to justify such an opinion.
    BTW, the book is highly recommended, and a pretty quick read.

    1. If this is the end of doom then why do I keep hearing about how austerity and climate change will destroy civilization?

      1. After you READ THE BOOK you might not ask that question.

      1. “Human behavior is economic behavior. The particulars may vary, but competition for limited resources remains a constant. Need as well as greed have followed us to the stars, and the rewards of wealth still await those wise enough to recognize this deep thrumming of our common pulse.”

      2. HM, the character and movie (?) are under my radar, but the statement has at least some validity.
        Much as we’ve always had ’20 years of oil reserves’, since prospecting is driven by consumption. Hell yes! Use it up!

        1. HM, the character and movie (?)

          Computer game. Perhaps one of the best of all time.

          1. Perhaps one of the best of all time.

            Fuckidy yeah with sprinkles on top.

          2. Better than Pong?! Pac Man?!
            Get off of my lawn!

          3. Better than HL3? You don’t know that!

            1. Every version of Civilization sucks when compared to Alpha Centauri. Do the math.

      3. Hell, we owe it to future generations to use our allotment of resources as productively as possible. It’s only wasteful if we let our fields sit fallow. We’re building the wonders of their world with the meager supplies available to us.

        1. “Hell, we owe it to future generations to use our allotment of resources as productively as possible. It’s only wasteful if we let our fields sit fallow. We’re building the wonders of their world with the meager supplies available to us.”

          I’m betting that those in the future will look back with exactly that POV; ‘WIH were they thinking?’

          1. They’d better be thankful, the fucking assholes. We didn’t have transporters, we had Jason Statham. We didn’t have replicators, we had the very beginnings of primative 3D printers and also line chefs and waiters. We didn’t have three shells, we had to make do with horribly unhygienic toilet paper. THE BASTARDS WON’T EVEN KNOW HOW GOOD THEY HAVE IT.

    2. And how would an economist or philosopher know this generation is richer than the next?

      1. It’s nonsense anyway. Generations don’t have claims, ethical or otherwise, to resources; individuals do.

        1. Better point than I made.

      2. I took it to mean that we need to be more generous to our ancestors who were much poorer than us. I was so heartened I just sent my poor peasant great great grandfather a check; I feel better.

    3. I know why Bailey brings it up in that context. Reductions in emissions today, in theory, help people in 50+ years. Since future people are highly likely to be much wealthier than us.

      Which means that harming people today to reduce CO2 effectively amounts to an wealth transfer from a relatively poor present to a relatively rich future.

      It’s taking the “poorer people have a bigger ethical claim on everything” mantra, and applying it to a different divide than usual.

      1. Christophe|10.24.15 @ 11:19PM|#
        “…Which means that harming people today to reduce CO2 effectively amounts to an wealth transfer from a relatively poor present to a relatively rich future…”

        Ron’s gonna get grilled on this, since it is the sort of optimistic alternative he might favor.

      2. Another trouble with that plan is that it tends to cost trillions of dollars now for a fraction of a degree change in 50 years. It’s just not worth it. Better to deal with it later, when we have better resources for doing so.

    4. I don’t know about ethics, but it is a pretty strong argument against the possibility of time travel. You’d assume that the first generation that gets access to TT would go back to before the industrial revolution and extract all the resources.

  18. “Most philosophers and economists hold that rich generations have a lower ethical claim on resources than poorer generations”

    I.e. Rich people have more shit I want to steal.

    1. Yeah, all I see is the mosaic-religion bias toward self-sacrifice.
      Maybe in his original comments (that Ron didn’t include) there was more, but if you’re to make a statement like that, there ought to be more than arm-waving.

      1. “ethical claim”

        Cash, bitch.

    2. I was reading that as “most philosophers and economists are nimrods”.

      1. Modern Economists making ethical claims. You mean the ones supporting central banking?

        1. I think Adam Smith was writing on ‘Natural Philosophy’ or some such; given the romances of the time, that’s fine.
          By now, econ is certainly a study which is subject to scientific examination; the presumption of ‘ethics’ seems to have no longer a place there.

            1. I’ve always taken Praxeology to be the study and application of revealed preferences as opposed to “ethics” as a guide to stated preferences.

              1. I meant more that the Austrians argue that econ is not subject to scientific examination (i.e., inductive reasoning based on empirical data). Indeed, I believe the major reason they are so reviled by so-called orthodox economists is that through its call for a bit of epistemological humility, the Austrian School had the balls to point out the hubris of conducting economics as if it were a hard science.

                1. “I meant more that the Austrians argue that econ is not subject to scientific examination”
                  Schumpeter seems to disagree.

                  1. “Praxeology is a theoretical and systematic, not a historical, science. Its scope is human action as such, irrespective of all environmental, accidental, and individual circumstances of the concrete acts. Its cognition is purely formal and general without reference to the material content and the particular features of the actual case. It aims at knowledge valid for all instances in which the conditions exactly correspond to those implied in its assumptions and inferences. Its statements and propositions are not derived from experience. They are, like those of logic and mathematics, a priori. They are not subject to verification or falsification on the ground of experience and facts. They are both logically and temporally antecedent to any comprehension of historical facts.”

                    Von Mises

                    1. I’m not sure I would classify Schumpeter as an “Austrian”, or “Austrian School” although he was from Austria. He certainly was not a proponent of ABCT. He had his own theory of business cycles.

                    2. The guys at agree. Schumpeter was Austrian, but he was not an economist of the Austrian School. He did, however, share many of their insights.

                    3. Susan, you got a link to that?
                      I’d love to see it in context, since it seems to be Platonic, and I have a hard time imagining Von Mises as a Platon…

  19. I’m putting together a TE Lawrence costume for next week, but goddamn I’ll ever get those eyes right.

    1. Peter O’Toole did “EYES” better than most; if you can beat ’em, you done good.
      “The Ruling Class”; funnnnnnnny!

    2. Atropine drops? You wont look exactly like Peter O’Toole, but you’ll look weird.

    3. Just try some of that doom spice, I’ve heard it results in startling blue eyes.

    4. One of these might work. You’ll need a prescription, though.

  20. “Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction. We didn’t pass it to our children in the bloodstream. It must be fought for, protected, and handed on for them to do the same, or one day we will spend our sunset years telling our children and our children’s children what it was once like in the United States where men were free.”

    — Somebody Nick Gillespie wants us to forget

  21. Perhaps a dead thread. Fuggit. This last week we saw a man who never committed a violent act in his life die of cancer while shackled to his bed as two armed men stood watch. We also saw a woman, who oversaw political retribution, exploit the powers of the state and eventually go away and enjoy freedom and full pension benefits courtesy of the victims she attacked. Who was the bigger threat to liberty? Schiff or Lerner? Upside world we live in.

      1. Never dead! Cheers.

    1. What happened to Schiff is the result of the state no matter how big or small it is. Those who believe gov’t will “limit” itself are delusional.

      Once you either peaceably revoke any consent, or are unable to pay the extortion rate, one will be subjected to theft and even death. This is not being taught to children. They never learn until the state comes crashing down on them. Some even still say bbbutttt bbuuuuttttt….we still need limited slavery (limited gov’t).

      The agents of the benevolent state can do no wrong. Whether it’s currency debauchery (you go to jail, but it’s ok for them to do it, and Bernie loves it too), extortion, gambling they don’t approve of, theft of property, it’s all ok because folks in fancy clothes say so.

    2. The State does not punish a person for the threat that he poses to liberty. Instead, the State punishes a person for the threat he poses to the State.

      Schiff was a very serious threat to the State. He thought he had the freedom to express his views about the legitimate scope of the income tax, and he actually exercised that freedom. Publicizing such views had the potential to reduce the State’s revenues and to make their exaction more difficult. The State had every reason to silence Schiff and to punish him harshly as an example to others who might otherwise think they have such freedom of expression. Unless one is willing to be a martyr, it is foolish to behave like one lives in a free country when one actually lives in a police state.

      Lerner was a dedicated agent of the State. Her career was dedicated to collecting revenues for the State and to preventing the formation of organizations whose mission was to counter the growth of the State’s scope of authority and revenues.

      This is the real world, not an upside-down world.

      1. I’m surprised they didn’t bury his body at sea.

  22. And after college is free, it will then become compulsory.

    1. And require still more remediation afterward, just like high school does now.

  23. The guy offering free ice cream versus the guy saying “eat your vegetables” – I wonder who wins?

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