Donald Trump Tells Jeb Bush to Speak English, Boat Carrying Migrants Sinks Off Coast of Malaysia, What Happened to UFO Sightings?: A.M. Links

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  Donald Trump said Jeb Bush should campaign for president in English when he's in the United States. Bush responded in Spanish.

• Meanwhile, Joe Biden says he doesn't know if he has "the emotional energy to run for president," and that his family would make the decision.
• A wooden boat reported to have been carrying more than 70 Indonesian illegal immigrants sank off the coast of Malaysia, killing at least 14. 
• In Germany, the country's decision to accept migrants entering the European Union has broad popular support.
• The former president of Guatemala, Otto Molina, has been ordered to be held in prison to await hearings over his participation in alleged bribery scheme.
• The United Nations is launching a celebrity blitz in support of its new global development goals.
• Whatever happened to UFO sightings?

New at Reason.com:

• Brickbat: Your Kind Isn't Welcome by Charles Oliver
• Hope for California Body Camera Bill Fades Amid Special Interest Power Forget about any civil liberties rebound, you're just California dreamin'. by Steven Greenhut
• Remember the Law is Only Sacred When it Upholds Liberal Values Liberals seem to have no regard for fundamental civil rights, just ones that help their agenda. by David Harsanyi

Comments

[Fist of Etiquette]

Whatever happened to UFO sightings?

They've all been identified.

[Rufus J. Firefly]

Hello.

[Pope Jimbo]

Maybe the sequester forced the aliens to ground their saucers due to a lack of funding?

[The Last American Hero]

People got tired of hearing Lights Out in London at the county fair?

[Swiss Servator]

*golf clap*

[AlmightyJB]

Just play Natural Thing

[Aresen]

Anybody who thinks there are no Space Aliens on Earth hasn't paid attention to the 2016 presidential election race.

[hurts_donut]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=tGMGOdKOPKk

If anyone likes UFO docs this is the best one I found. It kept me up a few nights after watching.

[Monty Crisco]

Too retarded for words:

http://www.thedailybeast.com/a.....trans.html

Im trans and a muslim. Where do my identity politics end and begin?

[Slammer]

I don't know or care, but I'm sure you'll share anyway

[Monty Crisco]

I would like for this PERSON to go and do this shit in an actual muslim country... results may vary

[WTF]

Stoning, beheading, or thrown off a building?

[Tejicano]

Yes, yes, but in what order?

[Karl Hungus]

Where do my identity politics end--

Ptobably with you being stoned to death.

[Irish ?s ESB]

This is kind of ironic given that the Iranians have actually been forcing gay men to cut their penises off on the grounds that it's okay to be transgendered and fuck a dude since you're living as a woman, you just can't keep your Johnson and engage in that kind of activity.

So there seems to be some conflict on whether or not transsexuals are haram.

[Irish ?s ESB]

Dawud, who wears the full face veil or niqab, told The Daily Beast that she had searched for meaning in other religions before finding Islam. "I was cleaning my apartment and I ended up finding this old Quran that I had misplaced for years," she said. She read through it and found the flow comforting. She took the shahadah?declaration of faith?in March 2013.

"When I realized that I actually am female, and I actually had to transition? I was so sure, I knew there was no mistaking it," Dawud said. "And when I decided to take my shahadah, that same level of confidence was there."

Man, how stupid do you have to be to transition to living as a woman and THEN convert to Islam.

"Hey, I know - I'm going to live as a woman and then immediately convert to a highly patriarchal religion that treats women like dirt and says my testimony is only worth 1/3rd of a man's! Fuck yeah!"

Also, apparently transgenderism is totally cool in Islam, you just have to complete the surgery so they'll accept you as a woman:

The document, he says, didn't confirm for him that she had undergone gender confirmation surgery. If he knew she had, "she would be treated as a female?completely as a female," Fayad said.

Religion is weird. Being gay = totally not okay, being transgendered = meh.

[Sudden]

Man, how stupid do you have to be to transition to living as a woman and THEN convert to Islam.

A consequence of the West not having any great animating principles underlying it at the present moment. Here is a person who desperately seeks an identity, to feel a part of something larger. So he adopts the Western progressive value set of trans = good. When he finds that wholly unfulfilling, he opts to go the Islam route in order to find that great animating principle and group identity.

[WTF]

Maybe not so much stupid as batshit crazy? Or possibly a combination.

[Sudden]

Neither really.

It reveals a basic human impulse to be part of something larger, a need for a sort of tribal identity formed around a basic core set of values. The point is that the West exists in a sort of civilizational ennui without such a compelling animating set of values in the post-Christendom era. We hop from hedonistic pursuit to hedonistic pursuit, drifting in a world lacking any real concept of higher purpose that people can form a shared values identity around. He tried to find such a shared values identity in the trans community and found it to be as spiritually unfulfilling as anything available in the West.

So he opted to go Islam, where a strong animating principle of spirituality and a will to see that manifested in the world exists. He's simply a person in search of an identity, and so flirts with finding that in gender identity and then religious identity. But what he's pursuing is the basic human need to belong to something larger than oneself, an identity above the individual. A group to belong to.

[WTF]

I think you make some good.....Nah, I'm gonna stick with crazy dumbass.

[commodious spittoon]

You ever wonder if it's a crypto- or proto-Marxist impulse what drives their obsession with dramatically compulsive models of personal and political subservience? Ultimately, this sort of person is a loser in a market economy: they offer little value, a great deal of potential liability, and strive to develop identity rather than personality and a marketable skillset. So they embrace anti-capitalist modes of thinking and condemn the West for the liberties they failed to harness. Except maybe Pyongyang, Islamic countries are first in line for anti-Western thinking, and so closet Marxists gravitate toward it--if not converting, than at least apologizing for and defending it even against their own pro-feminist, pro-LGBQT sensibilities.

[Sudden]

Welcome to Marcusian Cultural Marxism 101. Cue PB to call me a Bircher now.

[commodious spittoon]

His famous concept repressive desublimation refers to his argument that postwar mass culture, with its profusion of sexual provocations, serves to reinforce political repression. If people are preoccupied with unauthentic sexual stimulation, their political energy will be "desublimated"; instead of acting constructively to change the world, they remain repressed and uncritical.

See, this is exactly what I mean. Western bourgeois culture is "one-dimensional," static, and stagnant, and achieves no world-changing dynamism. And yet look at how vastly improved the comfortable bourgeois life has become under that "one-dimensional" model of liberal democracy, to the point that we've become obsessive social hygienists preening over our own and our neighbors' cultural nits. The world has changed dramatically, but not by a process amenable to being guided by wise benefactors like Marcuse and his peers, so it's written off as wasted effort. And they won't recognize that modern examples of political movements led by crypto-Marxist thinkers (e.g. Sharpton) engendered manifestly worse conditions for their followers.

[Heroic Mulatto]

we've become obsessive social hygienists preening over our own and our neighbors' cultural nits.

We can't become what we've always been. Circa 1390, preening over our neighbors' cultural nits was just called "Tales of Caunterbury".

[commodious spittoon]

The impetus has been there, sure, but not always the leisure.

[Bobarian (Would Chip Her)]

One does definitely not preclude the other.

[Certified Public Asshat]

Here is a person who desperately seeks an identity, to feel a part of something larger.

Find a sports team to root for and call it a day.

[Bobarian (Would Chip Her)]

Go Chiefs!

[Sudden]

Fellow Chiefs fan?

4-0 baby.

Going to KC in October for the game against the Bears. Really tempted to drop an absurd amount of money to check out the Royals postseason run while there.

[Certified Public Asshat]

Will Alex Smith throw a WR a TD this year?

[Bobarian (Would Chip Her)]

He managed to do it in the pre-season.

[Bobarian (Would Chip Her)]

4-0 in the pre-season is scary. I lived in KC during the 98 season.

They went 4-0, then started the season 4-0 and Jason Whitlock said 16-0 in the paper and then 'HO-LEE SHIT, WTF?!'

We finished 7-9.

Last year of Marty-Ball.

[Sudden]

Yea, I'm always a bit suspicious about preseason records. But I look at what the first stringers looked like in Game 3. Granted, it was against the dumpster fire that is the Titans defense, but I still think the offense looks vastly improved with finally having a competent WR corps. The defense should be at least as good if not better than last year with the return of DJ and superhuman cancer beater Eric Berry. And last year's defense was solid against a fairly tough schedule.

I still worry about the OL, but even if it's not good, it should be substantially better than last season's given that McGlynn is gone. 10 wins should be achievable.

[Bobarian (Would Chip Her)]

The 1st string was pretty pedestrian in the Cardinal game, but seemed to get a lot better.

The O-Line is my on real worry, too. Just like the rest of the last decade.

[Clich? Bandit]

this is my reaction...except it should be the Broncos...fuck the chefs.

[Sudden]

Our secondary will be shooting down those ducks Peyton Manning is throwing like they were playing 8-bit nintendo. You'll be lucky to finish second in the division this year.

[Bobarian (Would Chip Her)]

This!

Ol' five-head is getting long in the tooth, and can't play in the cold.

He is no Horse-Face.

You Donkos are going down.

Unfortunately, I think the Faiders will be much improved this year and act as spoilers.

Prediction: Chiefs, Faiders, Donkos and Bolts.

[MJGreen - Docile Citizen]

What were the "animating principles" in the 1950s? The 1820s? 1735?

[Sudden]

Christianity still for the most part. In fact, 1730s and 1820s coincide with the first and second great awakenings in the States and religion was still an animating ideology in europe during those times.

The 1950s, Christendom was still strong in the states, and while declining in Europe and being rivaled by Communism (which also provided a similar animating ethos to those not living in the Soviet bloc), Christianity didn't really die in Europe until the late 60s.

[JWatts]

"What were the "animating principles" in the 1950s?"

In addition to Christianity, there was also a strong sense of nationalism and a strong American ethos. The US has just "won" WW2, held off the Communists in Korea, the economy was thriving and we had a singular adversary in the Soviet Union.

Granted, that led to various levels of over reach (McCarthyism), but is was still a very strong focus for identity.

[Mike Laursen]

1950s: Going to the drive-in in a sweet hot rod on a Saturday night. Not being shot at by Nazis anymore if you were a bit older.

1735: Not starving, and drinking a lot of alcohol.

1820s: getting out of whatever shithole European country you were born in, and coming to America.

[MJGreen - Docile Citizen]

I think Mike's answer is the more sober one.

[Zeb]

gender confirmation surgery

Is that the new term for it?

You know, I'm all for accommodating and respecting transgender people. But using terms like that seems like it assumes that we know a lot more about the phenomenon than we do. Simply declaring "this is my true gender and I just need the surgery to confirm it" would appear to oversimplify the situation as far as I can see.

But if that's what someone thinks will make them happy, it's none of my business.

[UnCivilServant]

Well, as for the happiness - post-surgury, the incidences of depression and suicide are higher than even their pre-surgical peers. The evidence suggests that the issues with happiness and maladjustment are mental, and that after the surgery the realization sets in that they're still not happy and don't feel like themselves. But the mention of this by anybody, even one of the communicty brings out the torches and pitchforks faster than you can say "heretic". It's almost as if the goal isn't to improve the well-being of the individuals.

[Zeb]

I've heard that. And I am inclined to think that it is better treated as a psychological problem than a anatomical one.

But some people seem to be quite happy after the surgery. More honest information is always good, but people can do what they want.

[JWatts]

"Well, as for the happiness - post-surgury, the incidences of depression and suicide are higher than even their pre-surgical peers."

I'm inclined to attribute that to selection bias rather than cause and effect.

Most of the happiness "Studies" didn't look at peoples happiness before the surgery and then after the surgery. Instead they polled a random group of transgendered individuals and looked at the happiness of those who hadn't had surgery and those who had.

It's possible and even likely in my mind that the most unhappy were more likely to have surgery than the average, and that their happiness didn't improve afterward.

[Sudden]

When you "accommodate and respect" transgenderism, i.e. participate in their delusions, this is the logical extension. You give an inch by respecting, then a foot by accommodating, and they take a mile by relabeling reality and forcing everyone to use absurdly fabricated pronouns. And as it gains mainstream acceptance, those who still want to be special snowflakes and outcasts to society call themselves otherkin. I cannot wait for the dystopian future where we have species reassignment surgery.

[Sudden]

And as far as not knowing about the phenomenon of gender vs sex, what we do know is that the psychologist that was behind the formulation of the theory of gender identity being separate from sexual identity was himself a child pornographer and pedophile.

[Zeb]

Is there some reason why that should make me think he was wrong? For all I know that gave him special insight into how abnormal sexual inclinations work.

[SugarFree]

Is there some reason why that should make me think he was wrong?

Let's ask David Reimer his opinion on John Money.

[Zeb]

Well, it seems that the idea that gender is entirely socially constructed is just wrong, as illustrated by cases like that (I saw a very sad documentary about that guy once). But transgenderism seems to actually counter the notion of socially constructed gender identity rather than support it.

[WTF]

Except it will be called "species confirmation surgery".

[Zeb]

Is it a delusion, though? They don't believe anything about themselves that isn't true as far as I can see. They know what their natural body is and they feel like it's the wrong sex. That's not a delusion. I think "dysphoria" might be the word.

No one should be forced to do anything. But I'm not in any position to tell some transgender person what they should do or what's wrong with them. I have no idea what's behind it, but it does seem to be a real phenomenon.

[WTF]

Body dysmorphic disorder is a type of delusion. They think they are something other than what they actually are in physical reality.

[Zeb]

I don't see how it's a delusion. They don't think that they have a different body from what they have. They just feel like they should.

[Sudden]

Dysphoria is the correct clinical term for what they feel in relation to their own body. But acquiescing to calling a person by a gender pronoun that is not their biological sex is participating in said dysphoria and elevating it to the status of delusion.

Look, I'm not saying that anyone should be denied the ability to mutilate oneself (though I would suggest that a doctor doing such may be violating the Hippocratic oath), but not denying a person a freedom does not mean you have to embrace or even approve of that freedom.

If you wanna smoke crack, I believe you should be allowed to. But that doesn't mean I have to accept it as merely an alternative lifestyle choice. I can heap scorn and shame on you as is my freedom. I can pity you for suffering from addiction.

[Zeb]

Well, I'm not sufficiently convinced to say firmly one way or the other how it is best treated. I'm inclined to agree that body modification is not a very good approach for most people. Beyond that, I don't think it's any of my business and I don't know enough to make any judgements on what anyone wants to do to themselves.

[Sudden]

A fair position, a sort of agnosticism. But you do realize that is heretical to the trans-rights agitators.

[Zeb]

I sure do. They seem to want to follow the same sort of path as gay rights, but I don't see how transgender can (or should) ever become normal in the way that being gay largely has. Being gay is an orientation and seems to work just fine for people. Transgender is something broken that no amount of societal tolerance or acceptance will fix.

[CatoTheChipper]

gender confirmation surgery

The Tempe mosque is reportedly owned by the North American Islamic Trust, which is reported aligned with the Muslim Brotherhood. I mention this only to suggest that its imam is probably informed by Egyptian Sunni Islam, and would find its fatwa regarding this topic authoritative.

In 1988 Al Azhar, the highest Sunni Islamic authority in Egypt, gave a religious (legal) decision (fatwa) regarding surgical treatment of intersexuals stating that 'it is permissible to perform the operation in order to reveal what was hidden of male or female organs. Indeed, it is obligatory to do so with the reason that it must be considered a treatment'.

This fatwa seems to cover only genuine intersexuality, which is a fairly rare physiological condition. That's probably what the imam meant by "confirmation".

[Notorious UGCC]

I suspect the point of the term "gender confirmation surgery" is to encode gender ideology into the very language - you see, Timmy, a person has a gender, and this gender may or may not correspond to the reality of the person's actual body. So if someone thinks of themselves as female but is cursed with a dick, testicles, no uterus, etc., then the thing to do is to hire someone to cut off your man bits and give you woman bits.

This isn't some crazy person mutilating him/herself, this is someone getting necessary surgery to line up his/her body with his/her *real* gender.

[Zeb]

Or, as someone else suggested in the discussion of how Islamic countries treat transsexual/gender people, it could be the term used by the Mosque.

[The Last American Hero]

Ancient Greeks were OK with some gay action - as long as you were a top. I'm not sure that had much to do with religion.

[Zeb]

And, in Athens at least, it was tolerated, but not really looked at as a necessarily positive inclination.

[Azathoth!!]

People are misunderstanding this.

In Islam, once the surgery was complete she would be no different from a eunuch and 'he' would be treated as such. If 'he' tried to get a man, 'he' would be treated as gay.

Which is not okay.

You will note the lack of female to male transitions in Islam.

[wareagle]

only a progtard hothouse like TDB could find this puzzling.

[Medical Physics Guy]

Excellent, I have been waiting and waiting for this test case to happen.

[Zeb]

I don't much care. But I would advise her to stay out of any actually Muslim countries.

[Irish ?s ESB]

Like I said, I think she'd get along better than you'd think, or at least as well as any other woman. Islam seems strangely blase about transgenderism, so the amount of discrimination she faced would probably be based on local standards for the treatment of women, not on the fact she's transgendered.

I do know that transgendered people in Malaysia have been thrown in prison on the grounds that cross dressing is illegal, so I guess it would probably depend on the country.

[Zeb]

That's interesting.

[Rufus J. Firefly]

"I do know that transgendered people in Malaysia have been thrown in prison on the grounds that cross dressing is illegal"

Malaysia has a large British MP population?

BOOYA!

[Sudden]

Perhaps because transgenderism is a remarkably modern phenomenon (transsexualism being a different animal). The Islamic world simply views transgenderism as transsexualism because transgenderism is, for the time being, a consequence of Western decadence and ennui. If it grows in popularity in the Islamic world, I'm fairly certain that the clerics that establish and interpret the doctrine of Islam will quickly define it as a transgression (heh) of Islamic law. It's one thing to wear female clothing and play pretend. It's another to believe that Allah made you wrong and to take hormones and surgeries to correct the mistakes of the presumed almighty.

[Irish ?s ESB]

Except the Iranians are already forcing gay men to become transgendered because they think transgenderism is less of a sin than homosexuality. So clerics are currently prescribing transgenderism as a way of living a less sinful life for gay men.

[Free Society]

Like I said, I think she'd get along better than you'd think, or at least as well as any other woman.

Well in Britain where Muslims are supposed to be more Westernized, 61% of British Muslims want homosexuality punished. I realize that those numbers would be somewhat different for trannies, but whatever they are I'm certain it won't bode well for Islamic society's supposed tolerance. Though I can't find any statistics for Muslim views on trannies, I'd love to see some.

[Zeb]

What Irish describes doesn't exactly sound like tolerance. More of a strange notion about sex and gender.

[Free Society]

Yeah, it is quite odd to say the least. Let's be super-conservative and concede, for the sake argument, that only 10% of the people in this he/she's mosque wants him/her dead. That is not a number to pat Islam on the back about.

[Number.6]

To be fair to Islam, at least it's a smaller percentage than the number that want apostates to be dead.

[Free Society]

That particular number approaches 90% in most Muslim majority countries outside of Balkans and former soviet republics.

[Sudden]

I actually don't have a problem with wanting someone dead. I have a problem with manifestations of that want.

[Free Society]

I actually don't have a problem with wanting someone dead. I have a problem with manifestations of that want.

There's people I want dead, not groups mind you, but specific evil people. I don't think that's unreasonable.

You can also point out that you have no problem with people who provide rhetorical and social support to Islamist terrorists as long as they aren't Islamist terrorists themselves. But that level of support they enjoy is the reason those terrorists exist, it is the community from which Islamist terrorists are recruited and supported. They would not exist in any threatening form if they didn't enjoy widespread support in their community.

People who feel that I should be killed for being gay may indeed not murder me, but they provide the social cover for people who would do so. Belief matters and while that is certainly no justification for locking these people up, there is certainly a justification for not associating with them and treating them like the blight of civilization that they are.

[Timon 19]

One of Turkey's more beloved entertainers is trans. It's strange. Bulent Ersoy. S/he's been persecuted in the past, too, but seems like most of the population either loves her or is completely indifferent.

[John]

They will end when your head hits the floor after your fellow Muslims get ahold of you.

[Karl Hungus]

Detective Doesn't Think He Should Have Been Fired for Being Photographed at a KKK Rally

http://news.yahoo.com/detectiv.....34981.html

[Notorious UGCC]

"Oops, I was looking for the Rotary Club meeting next door."

[sound of camera]

"Oh, great, now they're going to take this all out of context."

[Notorious UGCC]

Drat, the joke would have been better if he'd said: "Oops, I was looking for the Rotary Club meeting. Let me wave and catch someone's attention, so they can tell me how to get...wait, was that a camera going off?"

[MJGreen - Docile Citizen]

"Look, I happen to know, ladies and gentlemen, that this band of miscreants here, this very evening, interfered with a lynch mob in the performance of its duty. Well, it's true. See, I belong to a certain secret society, I don't believe I gotta mention it's name... and these boys, here, they trampled all over our venerated observances and rituals!

Listen to me, these boys desecrated a fiery cross!"

[Rasilio]

+1 Pater Familias

[Juice]

He was just looking for Kyle.

http://yotamak.blogs.com/.a/6a.....b35970c-pi

[Juice]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2PjrF-dDtj0

[Fist of Etiquette]

Donald Trump said Jeb Bush should campaign for president in English when he's in the United States.

Bush responded in Mexican.

[Tejicano]

7,500 monolingual Navajo speakers would tell the Donald to fcuk himself - or suggest some even more colorful activity which their native language has in abundance.

[UnCivilServant]

Where's your source that there are that many monolingual Navajo speakers left?

[Tejicano]

Wiki "Navajo language"

4th line down from the top under "native speakers" shows 7,600 monolinguals (I mis-remembered this number)

[straffinrun]

I'm bored, so

[Bobarian (Would Chip Her)]

Looking at the source quoted in the Wiki, there is nothing to back that up.

The census says 169K speak Navajo in the home, of that only 2.2% (3.7K) spoke english "not at all". Some of those 3.7K would possibly speak another language like spanish.

[Heroic Mulatto]

That's because Wikipedia and/or the Census sucks. SIL's Ethnologue cites the 7,600 number as coming from the work of Kumiko Ichihashi-Nakayama of UCSB, which can be found in Chapter 24 of this book. That's as far as I'm going as this is too much like work and it's my Labor Day weekend.

[l0b0t]

My admiration and respect of you and your knowledge grows with every post you make. I love this place because of people like you; I learn so much here.

[Tejicano]

20 some odd years ago the number was more like 40,000. Understanding that most of those were probably in their 70's or so I'm sure attrition has taken its toll.

But when you look at the size and scope of desolation of the Navajo reservations - combined area bigger than many states - it isn't hard to imagine how little use many Navajo would have for the English language. My guess is that a large number of them spoke English as a second language once upon a time but have forgotten most of it.

[JWatts]

"7,500 monolingual Navajo speakers would tell the Donald to fcuk himself - or suggest some even more colorful activity which their native language has in abundance."

Maybe...if someone translated it for them.

[Fist of Etiquette]

Meanwhile, Joe Biden says he doesn't know if he has "the emotional energy to run for president," and that his family would make the decision.

Looks like Joe's just...

[dons sunglasses]

...Biden his time.

[Karl Hungus]

...Biden his time.

Good joke. Everybody laugh. Roll on snare drum. Curtains.

[Rhywun]

Sure sounds like the youth and energy that the Dem's are lacking in this race. Wake up and Run, Joe, Run!

[straffinrun]

Have you seen Biden recently? Looks like he's holding an ornate chalice as his Secret Service detail says, "You chose poorly".

[Swiss Servator]

*opera applause*

[Jerryskids]

I think Joe just needs somebody to come to his emotional rescue. Perhaps a knight in shining armor, riding across the desert on a fine Arab in a kick-ass Dodge Charger.

[invisible furry hand]

A fake coffee cup to conceal your beer and keep it cold

[gaijin]

damn...we've been pouring liquor into dunkin donuts coffee cups for years to do the same thing at kids sporting events. If only we had thought of the idea to...set up a kickstarter around 'this one simple trick'.

[l0b0t]

IIRC, an FSU alumnus invented this beauty more than a decade ago.
The Wine Rack holds a whole bottle.

[PM]

... And you can put your weed in there.

[Fist of Etiquette]

In Germany, the country's decision to accept migrants entering the European Union has broad popular support.

Hear that, Canada? You could be popular again if you took all of North America's illegals!

[straffinrun]

Not in mein backyard.

[gaijin]

#neinlivesmatter

[Sapient Mulch]

Felix approves.

[AlmightyJB]

Those ovens aren't going to fill themselves

[JWatts]

So, are the new immigrants operating the ovens or entering the ovens? Or both?

[Sudden]

Of course the BBC article doesn't cite any actual polls or provide links to any but only uses the wonderfully vague and journalistically mendacious phrasing "Surveys suggest the vast majority of Germans agree." and proceeds to back up it's unsubstantiated assertion with anecdotal evidence "In almost every town or city, people are giving their time, donating food and clothing, even opening their homes to the thousands of asylum seekers who arrive here every day."

[DJF]

I noticed that too. If it was broadly supported shouldn't millions not thousands be opening their homes for asylum seekers?

And a few boxes of food shown would not feed a dozen people for a week.

[Sudden]

Typical media tricks using the bandwagon effect to try and make an idea popular by suggesting it is already popular without providing a shred of evidence thereof.

[Jerryskids]

Well, they did say "broad" support. Maybe the broads should support getting me another beer and makin' me a sammich. And fer chrissake would it kill ya to lose a few pounds? Yer startin' to look like yer mamma.

[Rufus J. Firefly]

Keep us out of your garbage. We're plenty happy to sit, observe and comment free of charge.

[Mazakon]

Not really. We're still trying to deal with the shame of Justin Bieber.

[Medical Physics Guy]

The great thing about this "Airbnb for refugees" is that people can really put their money where their mouth is. If you want to house refugees then house them yourself.

Apparently thousands of people are doing this, and good for them.

Meanwhile, a couple of UK newspapers declare Cameron is on "the wrong side of history" and suddenly the UK has signed up to take thousands more migrants, presumably stuffed away in housing projects where the UKBA hopes they won't bother anyone.

[Heroic Mulatto]

presumably stuffed away in housing projects where the UKBA hopes they won't bother anyone.

Yes! Brilliant! Introduce displaced Syrians to all those surly and radicalized 2nd generation Pakistani and Bangladeshi youth!

[Number.6]

Well, the UK is knee-deep in CCTV cameras so I see a business opportunity here ....

[Bobarian (Would Chip Her)]

Is it something like Bum Fights?

[Rufus J. Firefly]

The Liberals and the NDP were jumping all over Harper because of the little boy who tragically died on the beach. I love when they shamelessly pile on for cheap political points while claiming to be compassionate when in actuality they'd probably do the exact same thing they allege the conservatives for doing.

Was that a run on?

Fuck it. Who cares?

My point is like in any bureaucratic entity, there's a process and sometimes Baboo gets lost in the shuffle, know what I mean?

[Rufus J. Firefly]

That is, the boy who drowned and washed up on a Turkish beach.

[JWatts]

"Apparently thousands of people are doing this, and good for them."

"Thousands" isn't a particularly big number in respect to the number of refugees. When it's hundred's of thousands who actually host someone for at least a year, then it will be more relevant.

[Tejicano]

As long as they don't begin casting about for some Lebensraum where those immigrants can go.

[WTF]

I hear the Sudetenland is very nice.

[Tejicano]

Tanks for the suggestion !

[Rhywun]

Well, the eastern states are even emptier than they were before the wall came down since so many of the people who were trapped there flocked to the west. Lots of room there.

[Corning]

Winter is Canada's wall.

[Rasilio]

Which popular broad supports it?

[Raven Nation]

Are these the real A.M. Links? I see no official designation.

[straffinrun]

The intern may have removed the heading before posting. Where did they learn that trick?

[Notorious UGCC]

I thought at first you said "removed the heading before *pouring.*"

[Bobarian (Would Chip Her)]

removed the heading

ISIS?

[JWatts]

"The intern may have removed the heading before posting."

I have it on authority that this wasn't classified as the "A.M. Links" until after it was posted.

[gaijin]

his family would make the decision

Nothing says 'decisive' like delegating decision making!

[invisible furry hand]

Watch a 7-year get his tooth pulled out by his brother on a motorbike

[Irish ?s ESB]

NOPE

[invisible furry hand]

You're making a mistake. It is objectively awesome, as is the 7 year old

[kinnath]

The best one I ever saw was that dad that launched a model rocket to pull out his son's loose tooth.

[Sudden]

I'm 99% certain that is how Playa performs dentistry.

[Bobarian (Would Chip Her)]

Tieing the kid to the rocket and anchoring the tooth to the ground?

[invisible furry hand]

Government vows to stop woman from launching anti-vaccination childcare centre ? but flustered bureaucrats admit 'we've never encountered anything like this'

more

[Brochettaward]

Free markets are beautiful in their simplicity. Flustering bureaucrats everywhere.

[Rufus J. Firefly]

She's a quack but I see no reason to stop her.

[Medical Physics Guy]

What could be wrong with giving the unvaxed kids a place to go. Then they keep to each other and don't put others at risk without warning.

This is just the government harassing people it deems wrong-thinking.

[Rufus J. Firefly]

Pretty much.

I see this in the same light as homeschooling. Government may hate it but it shouldn't be their place to decide.

[PM]

Tori Spelling Suing Benihana Because She Fell on a Hibachi

Tori Spelling wants to torch Benihana in court after getting burned so badly in one of the restaurants, she was hospitalized ... according to a new lawsuit.

Spelling says she was at a Benihana in Encino, CA in April when she slipped and fell ... receiving, "deep second and third degree burn injuries." She reportedly fell onto one of the hibachi grills.

In the lawsuit Spelling says she racked up medical expenses, "general damage" and wage loss ... although there's no mention of where she was employed. She's suing the Benihana corporation -- not just the Encino location.

[gaijin]

when she slipped and fell

I heard she was drunk

[PM]

No way.

[Corning]

An overdose cocktail of coke and valium is not technically a cocktail.

[Fist of Etiquette]

Tori Spelling wants-

Stop right there.

[Princess Trigger]

The saki can sneek up on you.

[Rufus J. Firefly]

She slipped and fell? Burned her hands on the grill. Man, not even Jack Tripper could master that.

Sounds like a case Jackie would take for Kramer.

The coffee was too hot.

[WTF]

Who told you to put the balm on?

[Zeb]

Yeah. Why do they have to make those Hibachis so damn hot?

[Warty]

Fuck paperwork. Fuck bureaucrats. That is all.

[Rufus J. Firefly]

OH MY GOD. SOOOOO MUCH THIS.

[Zeb]

I'd like to add Fuck accounting software.

[Number.6]

Oooh, ooh.

Let's hate SalesForce too!. Or, more realistically, the people at SalesForce who convince credulous marketing staff with ridiculous budgets to buy a license!

That is all.

[Swiss Servator]

*nods in agreement*

[Zeb]

Yeah. Fortunately I have to do very little with SF, but my company was suckered into buying it.

[Crusty Juggler]

If everyone has it, then you need to have it, too!

[PM]

It's got what corporations crave!

[Swiss Servator]

Wait....you work in marketing?!!

[Number.6]

I fuckin' hate SF with a passion, but really, it's the integration monkeys we paid to build out a rather large customized enhancement.

When your *specialists* treat the database like a "Really Large Excel Spreadsheet" - you know you're fucked.

[Bobarian (Would Chip Her)]

When your *specialists* treat the database like a "Really Large Excel Spreadsheet" - you know you're fucked.

THIS. "WTF is a DBA?"

[Number.6]

Well that's the fun thing. They built this craptacular edifice and I was then 'tasked' to take over the salaried staff who are meant to be running it, and they're threatening to mutiny.

Really, I can't disagree with them.

[Zeb]

Sounds like our experience with SAP. Fortunately (sort of), I only have to use it.

[Pope Jimbo]

No fucking of paperwork or bureaucrats unless (and until) you have completed the proper forms.

I believie the 1-Delta-10-Tango form is required for carnal knowledge of a bureaucrat. I'm not sure which form is required for the paperwork, but you could always file a general request form to try to determine what form that would be. General request forms can be gotten at the Main Repository which is open M-W from 9:30 AM until 9:45 AM.

[UnCivilServant]

Did you have your signed permit authorizing the release of that information to the public, Jimbo?

[Pope Jimbo]

I was going to tell you that I was speaking ex cathedra and therefore was infallible, but then I realized that the College of Cardinals still hasn't processed all my onboarding paperwork so that I wasn't "technically" the true Pope yet.

So yeah, mea culpa...

[straffinrun]

Fuck bureaucrats with reams of paperwork. And leave in the staples.

[Tejicano]

Leave them in? Hell, add some more.

[invisible furry hand]

San Francisco elementary school removes boys' and girls' bathrooms and makes them gender neutral

The elementary school is trying to accommodate young students who don't fit into gender norms

[WTF]

What could possibly go wrong?

[Corning]

See my comment about Clark Kent's bladder below.

[Corning]

As a kid I used to have nightmares about girls coming into the boys bathroom.

No idea why I cared if they saw my bald junk.

As a kid I also used to have Clark Kent's bladder and could stand like 10 paces back from the urinal and hit it with force.

[Raven Nation]

UFO sightings declining? Not according to this:

http://www.ufostalker.com/?mufon=true

Of course, Shostak argues in his article that quality UFO sightings are declining.

[Fist of Etiquette]

The United Nations is launching a celebrity blitz in support of its new global development goals.

By giving them awards for Outstanding Achievement in the Field of Excellence.

[PM]

Forrest Gump: Love it or hate it?

Some critics were outraged when the 1994 blockbuster made our list of the 100 Greatest American Films. As the film is screened at MoMA, two journalists debate its merits.

Spoiler: it sucks.

[Zeb]

I've never seen it. But I always thought it sounded stupid.

[PM]

It's pure schmaltz for nostalgic baby boomers.

[Rufus J. Firefly]

It was okay but never understood the high praise.

[LynchPin1477]

It's good. It chokes me up.

[Jordan]

I liked it too.

(not a nostalgic baby boomer)

[straffinrun]

Why not? The dude is mentally challenged and never takes a dime from the govt due to his condition. What Tom Hanks role was better?

[The Last American Hero]

Two words - Bosom Buddies.

[Swiss Servator]

Point Awarded.

[Florida Man]

Cast away.

[Lee G]

Turner & Hooch

[Crusty Juggler]

The 'Burbs

[straffinrun]

OK fine. Other than Cast Away, Bosom Buddies, Turner & Hooch, and The Burbs, what has Tom Hanks ever done for us?

[Crusty Juggler]

Saving Private Ryan, Charlie Wilson's War, Toy Story. He also produced Band of Brothers, which is outstanding.

Most importantly, he was Uncle Ned on Family Ties.

[WayfurrinStranger]

"Fine. More maraschino cherries for me."

[WayfurrinStranger]

"Charlie Wilson's War" was straight-up propagandistic garbage, maybe one of the closest things to Soviet-style cinematic government propaganda I can think of to be produced in America since the 1950's. I would bet money that movie received direct funding from the State Dept. or some other fed agency

[invisible furry hand]

He was also in Catch me if you can and produced John Adams

[l0b0t]

Dragnet, 'nuff said!

[l0b0t]

Shit, I forgot about his best role of all time in Bachelor Party.

[Jerryskids]

Am I the only one who thinks Road To Perdition is the Tom Hanks movie? Tom Hanks as a mob enforcer just sounds ridiculous, but Tom Hanks is a mob enforcer in the movie.

[WayfurrinStranger]

That's my vote for his best. Great Paul Newman performance, too. Great performances by everybody. Great movie.

[JMC1607]

It has choked me up once or twice too. And I don't know about you, but I at least smile a little every time Forrest unwittingly exposes the Watergate burglars while staying at the Watergate. Based on Nixon's recommendation, of course.

[Slammer]

As the film is screened at MoMA, two journalists debate its merits.

Stupid is as stupid does

[JMC1607]

I have a soft spot for it, as I watched it repeatedly as a kid and loved it a lot then. Yeah, it might not be as great as I thought but it's a nice story. If you put any stock in the Oscars (I don't), it did not deserve Best Picture over Shawshank or Pulp Fiction.

That said, the fact that it has caught so much heat in recent years has made me like it more. People complained that it brushed over racism, glorified Vietnam vets, etc.. For God's sake, can't we just freaking enjoy a movie about a nice, mentally slow guy who ends up having a nice life?

[WTF]

I thought it was just okay. Didn't love it; didn't hate it.

[CatoTheChipper]

Forrest Gump is an incredibly stupid movie. The problem with this article is that the guy who hates on Gump does so for one of the movie's redeeming qualities: highlighting the hypocrisy and destructiveness of the 1960s radical left.

[John]

I don't think it was a stupid movie. It made one very good point that is almost never made in movies; values are greater than cleverness. All of the "smart" people in that movie end up using their intelligence to rationalize doing stupid, evil or self destructive things. Gump of course doesn't have any cleverness. He, does, however, have values. And his values allow him to sail through life unharmed.

[JMC1607]

Yeah, this.

[CatoTheChipper]

I appreciate that interpretation of "stupid is as stupid does", and certainly agree that intelligence and virtue are entirely different things. To tell the truth, I never thought of the movie in that light. I think my dislike of Forrest Gump (and Rainman) derives from my own experience. The charity that I donate serious money to and do some volunteer work for is a local group home for retarded adults. I have become acquainted with several people like Forrest Gump. They do not sail through life unharmed. None of them. I didn't like the movie because it seemed to romanticize or trivialize their struggles in life.

[invisible furry hand]

Food companies have been fooling the Australian population into overdosing on the 'dangerous' and 'toxic' food that is sugar, according to a leading US doctor.

Dr Robert Lustig, a paediatric endocrinologist and author of Fat Chance: The Bitter Truth About Sugar, blames sugar for a waiting room filled with obese children with type 2 diabetes and fatty livers.

He says sugar is causing the same damage to the body as alcohol does and Australians have been duped into eating foods with a high quantity because of the widely known concept called 'low GI'.

more

[gaijin]

Why would australians give a crap what an american doctor has to say?

[Raven Nation]

He's in a documentary airing on an Australian network. And, statists will take allies wherever they can.

[Jordan]

Pediatricians are some of the worst nannies on the planet.

[John]

^^THIS^^

And general practice doctors are not far behind.

[Pope Jimbo]

Do Aussies have Low GI because they are on the bottom of the earth and gravity pulls their GI down towards hell or something?

I know that that upside down thing is why kangaroos can jump so high.

[Corning]

I thought it was the venom of the 18 quadrillion poisonous animal species there that lowered GI

[Heroic Mulatto]

THIS IS HOW MAD MAX STARTED!

[Mrs. Lemuel Struthers]

Those tankers were filled with sugar, not gasoline.

[Bobarian (Would Chip Her)]

The twist at the end of 'Road Warrior'?

It was really brown sugar.

yuck.

[Sapient Mulch]

Perhaps they could have a government buyback program for the sugar and then their journalists can get all high and mighty about how low their diabetes rates are and how if the US government would outlaw sugar and implement some common sense dietary restrictions, the world would be a safer, more sane place. Or something.

[Mrs. Lemuel Struthers]

He's correct in that the overconsumption of sugar may lead to type 2 diabetes and obesity. He is, nonetheless, a statist asshole constantly promoting regulations instead of arguing the science.

[Lee G]

This. He cannot distinguish between advocating for a reduction in sugar consumption and using violence to achieve the same.

[Jerryskids]

If you've never heard of Lustig, he's like Ralph Nader and Paul Ehrlich and Al Gore's bastard child. He's a self-described 'leading American doctor', he's the same as the food Nazis at Center For Science in the Public Interest. If they had their way, you'd be locked in jail for possessing a Snicker's bar, if he had his way all the people at Snicker's would be hanged and there would be no Snicker's bars.

[PM]

Officer shot his own patrol car, Massachusetts police say

(CNN)A police officer lied when he said somebody shot at his patrol car, causing it to crash and catch fire, said Millis, Massachusetts, police Sgt. William Dwyer on Thursday.

"We have determined that the officer's story was fabricated," Dwyer said. "Specifically that he fired shots at his own cruiser as part of a plan to concoct a story that he was fired upon."

Dwyer said the officer will be prosecuted. He was a dispatcher hired as a part-time officer and was training to become a full-time officer, Dwyer said.

[Jordan]

Points for actually hitting his target though.

[Juvenile Bluster]

He was aiming for a dog 100 feet away.

[The Last American Hero]

Only Imperial Stormtroopers could be so precise.

[Zeb]

Whatever happened to UFO sightings?

I saw one the other day.

[Mazakon]

Trump calls Hugh Hewitt a 'third-rate announcer'

Donald Trump tore into radio host Hugh Hewitt as a "third-rate radio announcer" on Friday after the Republican presidential candidate struggled to answer a question about the leaders of major terrorist groups the previous day.

Responding to a question about his views on the Iran deal and the country's elite Quds Force from The Washington Post's David Ignatius on MSNBC's "Morning Joe," Trump took the opportunity to clean up his answer from Hewitt's interview and to also take a shot at the California-based radio personality who will, incidentally, be asking questions at the next GOP debate on Sept. 16.

He thinks it worked against Megyn Kelly so he's going for an encore.

[wareagle]

Trump just can't help himself. He is even more thin-skinned than Obama.

[Sudden]

It does tend to go hand in hand with the pathological narcissism.

[robc]

The espn 30 for 30 documentary on the usfl tells you everything you need to know about Trump.

[Pope Jimbo]

OK Fairness Doctrine time.

Since we let Donald Trump and Hugh Hewitt have a conversation on OUR airwaves, which progressives do we have to let blather on to even things out?

In fairness, we may have to use up to 6 or 8 proggies on to come up with an equivalent level of derp as Trump and Hewitt.

[John]

In fairness, unless you keep a box score at home, who actually knows any of those names? i would be shocked if any of the other candidates did any better and I know Obama wouldn't.

[Irish ?s ESB]

The issue wasn't that he didn't know the names, the issue was that he didn't even know the organizations. He couldn't tell the difference between Hamas and Hezbollah, which is a complete fucking joke for a presidential candidate.

[Pope Jimbo]

He couldn't tell the difference between Hamas and Hezbollah

Wait which one of those are the goat ropers and which one is the goat fuckers? I always get them confused too.

[John]

Jimbo,

If Trump had actually said "I always confuse those goat fuckers" or something to that effect, he would get my vote for comic value alone. I am still holding out for that Trump Biden unity ticket. If the place is going to burn down anyway, you might as well laugh while it happens.

[The Last American Hero]

This. And not just your vote. His poll numbers would go through the roof.

[John]

Walter Sobchak for President.

[Pope Jimbo]

While it would be a great line by Trump, I would worry about the people who live near the CAIR headquarters.

When the CAIR busybodies heard that line, their blood pressure would spike so severely that the entire HQ would explode in a true "dirty bomb".

[Lee G]

That puts him on par with 2000 era Bush

[John]

Now that is bad. I couldn't tell you who leads those organizations. But I sure as hell could tell you who they are. It just shows that Trump is lazy and doesn't spend any time preparing. He is a carnival barker and negotiator. But everyone already knew that.

At another level, however, it is an interesting question what kind of skills you want in a President. I don't mean this as an endorsement of Trump. In the abstract is it necessary to have a President who is knowledgeable on all of these things? You would think so but I wonder. The President pays people to know that and only has to be able to listen and make decisions based on what the people below him tell him. The real skill a President brings to the table is the ability to persuade the public and negotiate with Congress and other nations. When you think of it that way, maybe getting a perfect or even good score on the Foreign Service exam isn't the most important asset for a President.

[lap83]

"The real skill a President brings to the table is the ability to persuade the public and negotiate with Congress and other nations."

This is the one thing I think he could bring to the position, and it's not insignificant.
But an effective and accurate position on foreign affairs requires a foundation of knowledge. Otherwise you get someone like Richman who starts with his retarded views and makes up the facts as he goes along.

[lap83]

With Trump, I get the feeling that he learns just enough about anything to get what he wants. Like Obama with more business acumen.

[MJGreen - Docile Citizen]

If that is a skill that Trump could bring, then presumably he has persuaded you on some issue already. What is it?

[lap83]

Since I read a couple of Scott Adams' posts about Trump's negotiation tactics it's hard for me to not see through what he's doing. But it seems to be working on many people.

[CatoTheChipper]

An even more important skill is the ability to select the right people for key positions and to persuade them to come and work for you and to listen to them.

Obama brought in Holder for AG, Clinton for SoS and Geitner for SoT. I'd say he was pretty terrible in all three selections.

Bush brought in Ashcroft for AG, Powell for SoS, and O'Neill for SoT. He did better on the selection part, but he would not listen to Powell and O'Neill.

Clinton brought in Reno for AG, Warren M. Christopher for SoS, and Robert Rubin for SoT. The first two were disastrous selections. However, Rubin was brilliant and Clinton did listen to his every word even though he did not like what Rubin had to say.

Trump? I imagine that he'd do pretty well on the selection part, better than either Obama or Clinton. However, I think he'd be even worse than Bush on listening part.

[John]

You are wrong about Bush not listening. Bush listened to his advisers a lot He may have listened to them too much. Moreover, Bush in 2006 completely changed course in Iraq and fired Rumsfeld and initiated the surge. That is not the actions of a leader who doesn't listen. I really don't know where this "Bush wouldn't listen" meme comes from.

[Bobarian (Would Chip Her)]

It comes from what happened with Powell, but that was really a matter of listening to Rummy over Powell.

Rummy fired Shinseki because he called for the surge in 2003.

[CatoTheChipper]

You may be right; maybe I have selective memory regarding Powell being a good candidate for SoS. You know, pottery barn rule. After all, he did support the Iraq war after Bush decided to launch and even went to the UN with trumped up 'evidence' of WMD.

[LynchPin1477]

Whatever happened to UFO sightings?

They got sick of all the talk about Trump and stopped coming.

[Jordan]

I hear a lake has caught fire in Kentucky. GOD IS DISPLEASED!

[Mazakon]

Clinton aide says he doesn't know what a 'wiped server' means

[LynchPin1477]

+1 cloth?

[Pope Jimbo]

+1 rag from old blue dress

[Loki]

Either he's really fucking stupid, or he thinks Clinton's supporters are. Or both... I'm gonna go with "both," final answer.

[WTF]

Well, that depends on what the meaning of "is" is.

[Bobarian (Would Chip Her)]

Even if he really is fuckin stupid, he'd still be right on the 2nd one!

[PM]

Virginia Officer Stephen Rankin indicted in teen's death at Walmart parking lot

(CNN)A grand jury has indicted Portsmouth, Virginia, police Officer Stephen Rankin on a first-degree murder charge related to the shooting of an unarmed teen in a Walmart parking lot, according to public Virginia court records.

William Chapman, 18, was fatally shot on April 22.

Police responded to a shoplifting call at a Walmart, after which the officer approached Chapman, according to Jon Babineau, an attorney for the teen's family.

There was a struggle between the officer, who has been fired, and Chapman before the shooting, according to a witness.

[Florida Man]

Please tell me his partner is Bass.

[Pope Jimbo]

Don't you mean File?

[Lee G]

It's not Portsmouth, it's P-Town

[Jerryskids]

I really hate the people who say second-guessing the police will have a 'chilling effect' on their response to perceived threats - no shit, that's exactly what we want. Does this mean more cops might be shot by members of the general public because the cop hesitated in the face of a threat? Yes, indeed - but you see that shield you wear on your chest? That's not a shield for you, it symbolizes the fact that you are our shield. It's your job to take a bullet to protect the general public if need be, putting bullets into the general public is the exact opposite of your job. If you're so damn afraid of the general public that you will shoot one of them at the slightest sign of a threat, your volunteering to be their bodyguard might not be in anybody's best interests.

[Mr. Flanders]

Truth.

[Jordan]

This is what Hilary had to say in response to the Kentucky clerk being jailed:

"Officials should be held to their duty to uphold the law - end of story."

Umm...

[Rufus J. Firefly]

Classic.

[Zeb]

"Do as I say, not as I do"

[straffinrun]

I'm tellin' ya, it's not Karma, it's irony that runs the world.

[John]

I think you are right about that.

[Princess Trigger]

I Am The Law!

[John]

Nothing is classified unless I say it is. So anything I write in an unclassified email is by definition not classified.

I am pretty sure that is her actual defense.

[straffinrun]

Dershowitz says the same thing.

[robc]

As I said, start at the top, not with some clerk.

[Mrs. Lemuel Struthers]

From the administration that brought us Waco.

[Loki]

HAHAHAHAHA!!!!!1!!!!!! *inhales sharply* BWAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAA!!1111!!!!!!!!11!!!!

*Archer voice* That's classic her!

[Jordan]

Central bankers gonna central bank:

The ECB's stubborn mule, a Downbeat Draghi, is Ready to Beef Up Quantitative Easing Package.

If QE doesn't produce 2% inflation (and it hasn't worked for going on three decades in Japan, and half a decade in the US) then Draghi's clear intention is to keep doing what has not worked here, there, or anywhere, until it does work.

Need MOAR debt!

[Mrs. Lemuel Struthers]

They need moar of what didn't work.

[John]

http://www.channel3000.com/new.....y/35082128

Cops show up to break up a fight and are confronted by an angry. This is a real problem. We don't want cops brutalizing people but we want mob rule worse.

[Zeb]

Credit to the cop for keeping it together and as calm as possible.

[John]

Yes. But the people in the mob need to go to jail. We can't allow people to start getting away with shit like that. Civil order breaks down very easily and once lost is very hard to restore.

[Zeb]

Unless they all made direct threats or brandished a weapon or something, I'm not sure what to arrest the mob for. You can't make them all responsible for the woman who attacked the cop. The article makes it sound like they were out in the street because some people were fighting. Making mass arrests in a situation like that isn't going to help things, I don't think. The de-escalation approach was the best option, I think.
Now actual violent mobs/riots probably should see a lot more arrests (or getting shot by property owners). That shit can't be tolerated.

[John]

Interfering with an officer or arrest or something to that effect. That is one case where not doing what a police officer says should be a crime. If the cop shows up to arrest someone and you get in the way and threaten him, that is a crime. Also, assault only requires the credible threat that you will commit a battery. I would imagine a few people in that mob were guilty of that.

[Zeb]

As I said, arrest anyone who made a credible threat or materially intereferes with a legal arrest. The article makes it sound like a few people may have done that.

[Brett L]

Agreed, but it is only in trusting police to be just that keeps the mobs away. As Instapundit observed, the police don't protect the public from criminals so much as protect individuals from the mob. If police are going to apply their own tough justice whenever they fewl threatened, they aren't credibly different from the mob which will do the same. Police must attempt to take all suspected criminals into custody with a minimum amount of force and correctly differentiate probable law breakers from people they don't like. Otherwise its just mob rule by a few.

Not all police are in violation of those principles, and in very few jurosdictions are there a plurality of police actung that way, but they have a narrow margin that they are slipping past.

[John]

I agree. And Reynolds is absolutely right. A lot of people don't get that. That is what anarchists don't get. The government doesn't exist to keep us all in line and from committing crimes. The government exists to deal with people who have so the victims of those crimes don't. It is not just a problem of mob justice. It is also a problem of mob warfare. Just because I committed a crime and deserve what I get doesn't mean I don't have friends and associates who don't see it that way. So when the victims come after me, my friends see me as a victim and come after them. The government exists to stop such cycles of violence from occurring. The government comes after me so my friends don't blame the victims.

[Zeb]

Yes, that is the best justification for government's existence and it's essential purpose.

[straffinrun]

I had to click on that to see the cops being confronted with an angry what? Had some higher hopes.

[Jordan]

Soooo... apparently Golden Dawn (the actual Neo-Nazi party) is the most popular political party among 18-24 year olds in Greece. Those enlightened Europeans.

No link because I'm lazy.

[John]

The dark night of fascism is forever falling on America and landing on Europe.

That joke never gets old because it is always true.

[Heroic Mulatto]

In 2005, Eleftherotypia reported that Golden Dawn members distributed homophobic flyers during the first pride parade held in Athens.

Well, so much for cultural pride!

[John]

Homosexuals are a bit like the Jews. They are one of those groups that people naturally seem to scapegoat when things start to go insane.

[Sapient Mulch]

Tell us all about how that works John.

[John]

Yeah, you can see it happening in America. Yes, homosexuality is legal and homosexuals live openly and in peace in virtually every town and city in America. But it took a court order to allow them to get married and a lot of people object to that.

The kind of horror associated with people you don't know not liking the fact that you got a piece of paper from the government is something even the biggest pessimist thought would never come to this country. Slavery, world wars, the Great Depression and many other things were all terrible but no one ever thought it would get this bad. We live in a dark age.

[The Shrubber's Woodchipper]

And John goes on to prove your point without realizing that you made one.

[John]

Is your sarcasm meter broken or something? How exactly does a sarcastic remark about the horrors of having people object to your marriage prove his point?

Just exactly what counts for being sufficiently gay affirming on this board these days?

[The Shrubber's Woodchipper]

As shown here and a multitude of times previously, you have no problem scapegoating the gays. That was SM's point. It's your sarcasm detector that is broken.

[John]

Oh really? How exactly have I scapegoated gays? I never have anywhere but your mind. What I have done is made arguments about gay marriage that you don't like but don't have a very good answer for. Your way of dealing with that seems to be to accuse me of scapegoating gays. This allows you to just dismiss the points you don't like because I am just big meanie homophobe, which of course I am not and no reasonable reading of my opinions could conclude that.

You might want to ask yourself woodchipper why your position is so week you have to resort to ad homenim and maybe that means you should reconsider it. Just a thought.

[The Shrubber's Woodchipper]

I don't think that pointing out that you think the country is going to hell on issues of gay rights is a misrepresentation of your views.

[John]

So you think my view is that "the country is going to hell on the issue of gay rights" meaning that I think the entire problem with this country is "gay rights"? I just want to give you a chance to affirm that?

If you think that, either you don't read what I say or you just don't like it and pretend it is something else. First, gay rights is about 1000th on the list of problems this country is facing. If the country is going to hell and it has anything to do with gay rights it is because people like you are fucking obsessed with it at the expense of actual problems. We are going bankrupt and are about two feet away from losing our Republic yet somehow gays getting marriage licenses became this huge problem that dominated a huge part of the public debate for years. That is insane.

[John]

As far as gay rights go, I think gays should be able to live however they want. I just don't think they have a right to a marriage license or that the Supreme Court has any business rewriting family law. If the states want to recognize gay marriage, good for them. I really don't care. I only care when the court rapes the 14th Amendment one more time to mandate they do it. And I especially care when them doing that tramples all over people's right to religious freedom. I have this weird belief that there are other rights besides gay rights and other people have rights besides gays even really icky people.

Why you think that means i think gay rights are destroying America is beyond me. If we are not careful it is going to destroy religious freedom in this country. If that bothering me makes me a homo hater, then I guess anything short of a complete commitment to whatever gays demand no matter whose expense it would.

[The Shrubber's Woodchipper]

If the country is going to hell and it has anything to do with gay rights it is because people like you are fucking obsessed with it at the expense of actual problems.

Go to any of the gay marriage articles on H&R and count the number of comments by 'The Shrubber's Woodchipper' and 'John.' Then tell me who's obsessed with the issue.

And I actually agree with 90+% of your take on the issue. It's the level of hyperbole you inject to you arguments that is my biggest gripe and what is the underlying basis of my and (I think) SM's comments in this thread.

[John]

So you agree with me on the issue but somehow I am "scapegoating gays". Yeah that makes sense. And I comment a lot on the issue because I am in the minority on it. If there were other people making the same points, I would have fewer comments. The bitching and moaning about how much I comment on the issue is just people wishing that everyone would just shut up and agree with the dogma.

It is funny, you accuse me of hyperbole not 20 minutes after accusing me of using the gays as a scapegoat for all of the country's problem. Did the irony of doing that burn so much it harmed your computer?

[The Shrubber's Woodchipper]

Homosexuals are a bit like the Jews. They are one of those groups that people naturally seem to scapegoat when things start to go insane.

followed by:

Yeah, you can see it happening in America. Yes, homosexuality is legal and homosexuals live openly and in peace in virtually every town and city in America. But it took a court order to allow them to get married and a lot of people object to that.

Are you excluding yourself from the 'people' you are referring to here? I was not.

[John]

I don't object to gay marriage. It is none of my business. The existence of their marriage has nothing to do with the government however. They do not have a right to government recognition of it. Why you think them not having a right to government recognition is the same thing as thinking they have no right to marry is beyond me.

[The Shrubber's Woodchipper]

Done. Seen.

[Pope Jimbo]

Well, the homos are always trying to sneak up behind you so I think it is natural to be wary of them.

[Corning]

The nationalists in Thebes are not pleased.

Xenophon, an Athenian, was a verified gay basher though.....or at least he thought his soldiers freezing to death in the mountains while being dogged by the Persian cavalry was more of a going concern then the well being of a boy sex slave.

[Rufus J. Firefly]

Birth place of rational thought no less.

[robc]

Nah, that was Sumeria. Ugh, history is hard on these places.

[Rufus J. Firefly]

Sumeria didn't produce the philosophers Ancient Greece did, pal.

/puts up dukes.

[UnCivilServant]

Philosophy and reason are entirely unrelated disciplines.

Philosophy is the art of being a royal smartass and getting people to think you're insightful.

[Zeb]

You are confusing philosophy and sophistry. Many who claim to be philosophers are sophists.

[straffinrun]

The man of knowledge must be able not only to love his enemies, but also to hate his friends.

[Rufus J. Firefly]

Back to square one before we end up arguing about deep dish and mayo.

The Ancient Greeks are considered to be the first to actually 'codify' rational thought (human reason, critical thought) into philosophy.

http://www.criticalthinking.or.....inking/408

[SIV]

Neon Kratos Moment!

[John]

http://www.nationalreview.com/.....or&tid=897

School bans super hero lunch boxes. Girl sent home for having a Wonder Woman lunch box. It contained "violent images". Our society has well and truly gone insane.

[Irish ?s ESB]

The best part is that little girls are now apparently too violent and masculine for the squisy weirdos who run their schools.

[Heroic Mulatto]

Two articles in which the school isn't named and the only evidence is a photo of a typed letter in which no letterhead is shown (And at least in my school district, school letters aren't so informal as to refer to parents by first name). Not that it is beyond the realm of possibility, but my Spidey bullshit-hoax senses are tingling.

[John]

Yeah perhaps so. It surprises me Jonah Goldberg would be taken in by a hoax. From what you say, it looks like one. Why would the parents not be naming names and publicly shaming these people? Something is not right here.

[Heroic Mulatto]

Eh, it happens to the best of us. You're a journalist, you get paid by the word, you're expected to publish a certain number of articles per month, etc.

That having been said, his point concerning violence is spot on.

[invisible furry hand]

In fairness, Wonder Woman is actually pretty kinky

[SIV]

Mid-century American Sapphic-S&M subversion

[The Shrubber's Woodchipper]

Linda Carter as Wonder Woman was my prepubescent obsession.

[John]

True Story. My wife used to work for a private school where Carter sent her daughter. I once saw Carter at an event with my wife a few years ago. She was a bit thin. She didn't have quite the curves she once had. But she was still spectacular by any measure and especially for a mom who in her 50s. Even at her age, she didn't really disappoint.

[tarran]

Jesus. When I was scrolling through this, I thought you were talking about Amy Carter at first John.

I think I have acid burns all the way up to my epiglottis.

[John]

No Linda Carter. Wonder woman. Not Amy. I have my kinks but I am not some kind of sicko.

[Pope Jimbo]

Seconded. I was living in Memphis when Amy was attending art school there. She was frequently photographed whenever she was involved in some protest or other (which was often).

I always felt bad for her. It must suck to be homely and thrust into fame because of others. It has to make you bitter. I feel the same about Chelsea too. Of course, Amy never got zillions for not creating content for a TV channel.

[Rhywun]

She was a bit thin.

I hope she still has it up top where it counts.

My stepfather used to call her "torpedo tits" whenever the show came on. I played along.

[John]

She did but less so. She was skeletor thin. The tits didn't seem to be what they once were but they were still pretty awesome.

[Zeb]

Breast supporting garments also aren't what they once were. Torpedo tits don't happen naturally.

[Mrs. Lemuel Struthers]

In defense of the school administration, a male teacher did get a boner from viewing said lunch box. So, rape culture.

[robc]

Obligatory IPA went over well last night. None of the hopheads were insulted by the name.

[Zeb]

I'll buy that. When can I get it in NH?

[robc]

When you drive to BG, buy a growler fill and drive it back.

[Zeb]

Are you doing all sales on site, or is going out of state just too much of a hassle?

[robc]

On site now. Distribution will start in October but will be BG area only. The rest of KY is a ways away. Out of state isnt even being considered yet.

[Zeb]

Well, good luck. I'm sure you'll need some in navigation all the liquor regs.

[Swiss Servator]

Its his own creation, Zeb. He has made us all proud by actually going into the business.

If I am ever down there, I will stop in and pound a few brews.

[Je suis Woodchipper]

Glad to hear it.

Are you going to add depth to the website? It's nice when brewers post vague outlines of their recipes.

[UnCivilServant]

"I'ma take plants no one in their right mind would eat, rot 'em with fungus til 'da bubbling stops, strain out the gunk and put it into snarky bottles, and hock 'em at a premium."

/brewer

[Je suis Woodchipper]

I see you've had Yards Brewing's Tavern Spruce Ale.

[Zeb]

Jeez. Do you like anything good?

[UnCivilServant]

Jeez. Do you like anything good?

Real Pizza, Good Women, and Video Games, just to name a few off the top of my head.

What I don't get is how someone can pour disgusting rot water* down their gob when even the smell is enough to make one retch and claim it has good flavor. If you want alcohol, there are a few more steps involved in making it consumable.

*applies to wine as well.

[Heroic Mulatto]

Depends on what you consider "good" video games to be. For example, if you have Epi's taste in games, you are worse than a child molesting Hitler.

[Zeb]

I hate to break it to you, but if beer is rot water, then real pizza is as well, just with less water.

[Crusty Juggler]

I heard the Kentucky gay marriage clerk lady is a fan of vegan mayo, and Trump, and overly thick pizza. That is what I heard.

[The Shrubber's Woodchipper]

Burn her!

[PM]

Not only that, but she had an abortion in her youth when she found out that her religion required her to circumcise the child.

[PM]

The father was a migrant Mexican farm worker, btw. But it turns out his employer was a marijuana grower.

[invisible furry hand]

How did she get pregnant from ass sex?

[PM]

Immaculate conception. It happens from time to time. After all, the was carrying the Jesus...

[PM]

Fuck the insert key. *she* was carrying the *son* of Jesus....

[Heroic Mulatto]

is a fan of vegan mayo, and Trump, and overly thick pizza.

All of these are sexual innuendos.

[Ska]

So do you know what a Rusty Venture is?

[Crusty Juggler]

Is it what happens to me after I watch a Designing Women marathon?

[Swiss Servator]

You're a funny guy Crusty, I like you. That's why I'm going to narrow my gaze at you last.

[Lee G]

*tapers stare*

[Swiss Servator]

*applause*

[Lee G]

For you Swiss

http://i.imgur.com/c94vvZQ.jpg

[Crusty Juggler]

I am just going to take the funny part and run with it. Thank you, your gaze-ness.

[John]

That clerk is not stupid. Think about it. She is some county clerk in Kentucky. She wasn't going anywhere. Now she is a national hero to a ton of people. When all this is over she is going to make a killing on the speaking circuit or with a book deal. I think I would be willing to hang out in a county jail claiming I was a political prisoner for a few months for that. And considering where she is, I bet the guards and a large number of the inmates agree with her. I doubt her life in the can is that bad.

[kinnath]

The whole point of civil disobedience is to get yourself thrown into a jail cell to bring publicity to a cause. She clearly has the playbook memorized.

[John]

Yes she does. And if people start following her lead what then? Social conservatives are third or so of the population. There are large areas of the country where they hold virtually all of the political power. If they really do start engaging in civil disobedience, what is anyone going to do about it?

[AlmightyJB]

Ask a drug user.

[John]

Not quite the same. The drug users are more dispersed and less in number. Throwing drug users in jail is not the same thing as going after millions of people acting on their conscience. You couldn't start a no shit terrorist organization going after legalized drugs in this country. There wouldn't be any kind of grass roots support for your people to hide. You could absolutely start one if the SOCONs ever got really pissed off. There are huge areas of the country where your people could hide in plain sight.

Ultimately, only a very small percentage of the population actually wants drugs legal or finds them being illegal intolerable. This would be an entirely different thing, though I have no doubt the thought of locking all of these people up in cages brings a good number of people to joyous orgasm. It would however not work out quite as well as they hope.

[Swiss Servator]

Dammit. Another kick in the 401(k). I suppose shriek will be along to bellow about HOUSING STARTZ!!!! or CARZZZ SALEZZ!!!!

http://www.cnbc.com/2015/09/04.....-rate.html

[straffinrun]

Wait until Fracker's can't meet obligations. This fall, winter? Who knows, but that is a giant nut punch waiting to happen.

[commodious spittoon]

Whatever happened to UFO sightings?

Who has time for space aliens when we're overrun by illegal aliens?

[PM]

Who has time for space aliens when we're overrun by illegal aliens?

MASA?

[Mike M.]

All time record 94 million not in the labor force.

[John]

I love how they always release that kind of shit on a Friday before a holiday weekend as if no one will notice.

[commodious spittoon]

No one will notice.

[John]

They notice. Everyone knows the job market and the economy sucks. The media propaganda can't hide a reality that obvious.

[commodious spittoon]

But unemployment is at its lowest rate in nearly a decade. Explain that, rethuglicantard. Obamanomics works!

[Rhywun]

Plenty of room to crank up the minimum wage a few more notches!

[OldMexican]

A wooden boat reported to have been carrying more than 70 Indonesian illegal immigrants sank off the coast of Malaysia, killing at least 14

That's what happens when you get on board a boat with suicidal tendencies.

[PM]

Hey, say what you want about Mike Muir, but he never killed anybody.

[Agile Cyborg]

Porn killed UFO's.

Old boy downing a 24-pack of Keystone lights and dragging on a cheap cigar in his rusty Ford truck parked on the side of the Tennessee River at 2 am isn't watching the fucking sky anymore because Mister dirty tank top is faithfully tuned into his trusty super advanced mobile technology device which streams the best pussy dripping buckets of black boy cum.

[straffinrun]

Gaddam. That makes sense.

[Swiss Servator]

I think so too - I am... afraid.

[Heroic Mulatto]

Sing those words to the tune of "American Pie"...seriously...try it!

[Swiss Servator]

I wasn't sure until I got to "isn't watching the fucking sky anymore" ...and it worked!

[straffinrun]

10 minutes spent trying. You're right, that last line really pulled the room together.

[Loki]

Whatever happened to UFO sightings?

The aliens decided there was no intelligent life down here afterall?

[PM]

They couldn't keep their presence a secret anymore since we have the most transparent government in history now.

[Notorious UGCC]

People who catch sight of UFOs...soon afterward, nobody is able to catch sight of *them.*

[Notorious UGCC]

(this is a joke)

[Warty]

It's been said that how you make others feel about themselves says a lot about you.

To mark the launch of Pornhub Cares, we are offering a $25,000 scholarship to one carefully selected recipient! Whether you are studying medicine, botany, paranormal psychology, or anything in between, application is open to all fields of study so long as you have a GPA of 3.2 or higher.

[PM]

So it's open to anyone who needs a helping hand?

[John]

So is an audition video part of the application package?

[Swiss Servator]

Belle Knox didn't already win?!

[Warty]

She'd fucking better. Adorable lil' thing.

[commodious spittoon]

Honestly? Knox ranks just barely above Sulkowicz.

That said, I'd put a ring on Knox's hand even given her profession--even if she kept the job--before I'd go near Sulkowicz.

[Number.6]

She's broken goods too - psychologically - hopefully in a different, more humane way from Sulkowitz.

[commodious spittoon]

It's just that the bar for, er, actresses is set ludicrously high. Modestly attractive and fit white girls are legion, and Knox is really only remarkable for her philosophy. Even then she only articulated what women in the industry have practiced for decades.

[Number.6]

Years ago, I was peripherally involved in "the industry" in Europe. Most of the acting talent were mildly broken, and yeah, they all had Knox's philosophy to some degree. The reasons they got into the business were quite varied, and once the novelty of hanging out with 'real people' who fuck for a living was over, I was amused just how normal they were, under the circumstances.

Only one of the actresses in the circle I knew was a cutter (like Knox) and in fact, she was the only really serious case I've ever met. Fortunately.

[John]

http://edition.cnn.com/2015/09.....ef=edition

At this point the major media is a trolling operation for outraged right wingers and self loathing dumb white people. CNN tells its readers that they are all racists and need to admit it.

[Corning]

Suderman will be cutting and pasting from this article soon.

[Warty]

My contempt for the self-loathing self-pitying yokel brigade is well-documented, but fuck. Their liberal-ass moron counterparts must be doing everything they can to create them, right? The CJWs and SJWs do everything they can to strengthen each other.

[Zeb]

"CJW"?

[commodious spittoon]

Concealed Justice Warriors. More common in shall-issue states.

[JW]

Crusty Juggalo Women.

[commodious spittoon]

Chubby John Women.

[John]

I don't see any self pitying. This kind of shit is reality. And the proper answer is fuck off. We have spent what forty years, where the entire popular culture is built around the idea of the evil white male. At some point it has got to stop. If saying it needs to is "self pitying", well I guess so. That doesn't change the need for it to end.

[Sudden]

CJW, culture justice warrior?

[Warty]

Conservative. It's a work in progress.

[Swiss Servator]

C'mon....make it "Cuckservative"!

*ducks and runs from room*

[commodious spittoon]

Cuckservative is the political equivalent of using "alpha" and "beta" sincerely.

[Sudden]

The CJWs would be the natural ingroup enemies of cuckservatives. CJWs strike one as the type to use the term cuckservative.

[Swiss Servator]

Exactly - they wage war on them!

I ducked and ran from the room in shame for even stirring it up with that term. Crusty manages to use it more deftly/mockingly.

[Sudden]

I actually like the term and think it fits well for the submissiveness of establishment conservatives to the frame of the Left. Seems to me that the primary issue that people have with it (both those who embrace it and who shun it), courtesy of the emergence of racialized cuck pr0n, is the tendency to racialize the term and view it through the prism of white identity politics. But considering cuckoldry is at its base level about submissiveness, I find it to be a hilariously apt term for the Establishment right.

[commodious spittoon]

It applies, sure, but I think its originators meant it more in terms of submissiveness to those cantaloupe-calved brown people sprinting over the border, or the black fieldhands who enjoy indiscretions with the wife.

[WTF]

I thought we had all agreed on "Cosmocuckian"?

[Swiss Servator]

For our own use, aye.

[Sudden]

Cuckitarian has a better ring

[John]

Who are you Bo?

[Crusty Juggler]

christian, or conservative I would assume.

The people who want to control everyone are on both sides.

[Crusty Juggler]

I just did samsies with Warty? This is not going to end well for me.

[Swiss Servator]

*begins prayer for CJ*

[JW]

The CJWs and SJWs do everything they can to strengthen each other.

They complete one another. Two sides of the same stupid, stupid coin.

Wait, is that gay marrying each other?

[Warty]

Precisely.

[John]

Question Warty, is there any point at which you will not consider SOCONs as deserving of whatever they get from the SJWs? What you seem to be saying is that it doesn't matter how badly the SJWs go and fuck with the SOCONs, the SOCONs by simply existing or worse, fighting back, are just bringing the entire thing on themselves.

[Warty]

Getting what? Getting made fun of?

[John]

Getting sued out of business for one.

[John]

You say that but what do you expect the Christians to do? Y

I am not being flippant here. I am asking. Remember 30 years ago it was about letting homosexuals be scout leaders and teachers and all of that. And the SOCONS have largely rolled on all of that. And frankly they should have. Now it is about gay marriage. Okay, lets roll on that. But the SJWs have already moved onto transvestites. Now it is not good enough to accept gays, you have to accept them too and let your 13 year old daughter shower with a boy who says he is a girl and so forth. And when we are done with that, the SJWs will move onto something else.

You tell me how the SOCONs could ever reach a settlement with the SJWs, because I don't see how. I get it that you hate their guts. And in an ideal world we could just exile them or just kill them all and we wouldn't have to deal with these issues. But we can't do that. They are here and they are not going anywhere. And even though they are loathsome and really make the world a horrible place, they do at some minimal level have a right to live and be left alone if for no other reason than we have to let them in hopes normal people like you can do the same. I would just like to know from you what they are supposed to do that would get the SJWs to leave them alone or at least make them no longer responsible and deserving of whatever happens to them?

[Heroic Mulatto]

And in an ideal world we could just exile them or just kill them all

Wait, what?

[Swiss Servator]

Flight of the Intruder Hyperbole

[John]

And its wingman sarcasm.

[John]

That seems to be the attitude on here. When you listen to people like JW comment, you can just feel the exasperation and contempt for SOCONs. At intellectual level JW and others know SOCONs do have rights and those rights have to be defended. But God does it suck to have to do it. The attitude towards SOCONs is a general exasperation and wish that they would just die or go away so that no one had to engage in the distasteful job of defending them. And no one can ever admit that they might be right about anything or that they are ever in any way not just as bad or worse than the people trying to oppress them. No. They are always really horrible nasty people who have by virtue of being really horrible and nasty stirred up some other horrible people who want to fuck with them in ways that while objectionable really are not anything they probably don't deserve or were at least asking for.

[Zeb]

I can only speak for myself, but there are a good number of socially conservative people who I personally love very much. The part that bothers me is when people think that the laws and the organization of society should be in accord with their beliefs. And that includes marriage.

They have the right to live how they want. And they can exercise that right by forming their own communities and churches with like minded people. And I will be outraged right with them if anyone tries to force them or their church to participate in gay marriage or whatever if they don't want to. Tolerance needs to go both ways. I won't be surprised if it doesn't, but what are you going to do?

[lap83]

"The part that bothers me is when people think that the laws and the organization of society should be in accord with their beliefs. And that includes marriage."

Doesn't everyone do this? What do you think that laws should be in accord with.

[Zeb]

I think they should be in accord with the small subset of my beliefs about how people ought to behave that involves aggression toward other people. There is tons of shit that I think is immoral, or at least reprehensible, that I don't think the law should have anything to do with.

This is, of course, assuming that we have to have laws and government. At the bottom of it all, I really can't find any moral justification for government at all beyond the fact that it seems to be somewhat inevitable. But if it is to exist, it ought to be limited to keeping the amount of violence needed to settle disputes to a minimum.

So, yes, I am saying that everyone should adopt libertarian political ethics because I think that's best.

[John]

That is nice Zeb. Others disagree. Do they get a say in how their life and government runs or is it the dictatorship of zeb?

[Number.6]

+1 Manzanar

[Rhywun]

Get the government out of so many aspects of our lives and most of this stuff goes away.

[John]

Yes it would. These are the wages of politicizing every area of life. It was not however the SOCONs who did that. Yet, somehow they are more loathed and less defended than the people who did.

[Number.6]

I'm somewhat sympathetic to the SOCONs in general, but your claim is ludicrous.

SOCONs have always agitated for political interference in order to effect their objectives. The saving grace was always that they were usually too disorganized or lacked the focus to get what they wanted.

[John]

Number 6,

The SOCONs didn't even have a political movement until the 70s. And nice of you to be "somewhat sympathetic". It is threads like this that cause me to have zero faith in Libertarians being on the right side in the coming battles over religious freedom. Libertarians will not be on the wrong side. More likely they are just going to wash their hands of the entire thing as "just more culture war bullshit" and figure the SOCONs had it coming anyway. There seems to be little appetite to actually defend these people's rights.

[Number.6]

Personally, I'm quite happy for SOCONs to (continue? to) have a powerless political movement. They can experience the agita that small-l libertarians suffer every. fucking. moment. of. our. lives.

The reality is that the SOCONs will not win any significant, durable victories until they love freedom for everyone more than they hate other people being free in ways that they disapprove of.

To the extent that SOCONs are some kind of unified group (they ain't) they'd probably fare better by abandoning much of the current battleground to a more defensible position where they have allies. I know that sounds like a "let's you and him fight" proposition, but they're exposed and outnumbered in an untenable cultural salient at the moment, and they need allies. It wouldn't take much of a change in the culture of the SOCONs to make them far more palatable to small-l libertarians. Numerically, they outnumber us, but their social agenda is unsustainable, as they're finding out.

[John]

Personally, I'm quite happy for SOCONs to (continue? to) have a powerless political movement. They can experience the agita that small-l libertarians suffer every. fucking. moment. of. our. lives.

I take what I said back. Some Libertarians will be on the wrong side and happily help the SJWs. Good luck with that number 6. I am sure judging whether people should have rights based on your assessment of their moral worth will turn out to be one hell of a great way to do things.

[Number.6]

I don't want people who want to tell me how to live my life to gain ANY political power. If those same people want to live their own lives that way, and leave me the fuck alone, I'm fine with that.

All the SOCONs need to do is learn that leaving me the fuck alone will result in me supporting them going off and living in a compound with like minded individuals and doing whatever it is they formerly wanted me to be doing with them. I'd actively support them, in fact, because maximizing THEIR freedom would help maximize mine.

I want KULTUR WAR to bruise them so hard, they finally realize that they can't assume I'd be more happy to be crushed by their dystopian future than the left's.

They'll arrive at a more freedom-oriented philosophy when it hurts so badly that the pain educates them to obey the Golden Rule, because rational argument doesn't seem to work.

I'm not judging SOCONs 'moral worth'. I'm simply critical of their inability to value mine.

[Number.6]

In short, I'd like everyone across the whole political spectrum to prefix every policy pronouncement to FIRST ask themselves how this new innovation serves freedom.

The "Left" will never ask themselves that because they don't want it - and never will in my lifetime. The "Right" are not a lost cause yet, but we haven't reached the crisis in this particular fever, and I'm hopeful they can see the light.

Freedom is not a political ideology. It's a desirable state, which, if it is realized, allows people to indulge (as discrete, like-minded individuals) to put political ideologies into practice.

Finally, an SJW who becomes freedom-minded would no longer *BE* an SJW. Same is true of a SOCON.

[John]

Yeah Sure number 6, Just take away their rights and oppress them until they know better. I am sure that will work out well. Maybe we should just speed up this process of re-education. How about we build some camps for them to be in for a while?

[CatoTheChipper]

Whoa there, John.

The problem that people who are personally traditionalist but politically libertarian have right now stems from the fact that SOCONs did politicize many areas of life.

SOCONs made a strategic blunder against their interest back in the late 70s and 80s. Rather than advocating for libertarian restraint on the scope of government and decentralization with respect to social issues like abortion, drug reform, prostitution, pornography, drinking age, gay rights, etc, SOCONs advocated action by the state, particularly at the national level: a national constitutional ban on abortion, a tougher war on drugs, conflation of sex slavery with prostitution and pornography, a national drinking age, and advocacy of sodomy laws. Rather than seeking to persuade minds and soften hearts with Christian teaching, Falwell, Dobson, et al sought robust state enforcement of their moral norms.

Meanwhile, moral norms were evolving as America became a post-Christian country. Now libertines (including the libertine wing of the libertarian movement) seek robust state enforcement of their moral norms. It should be easy to understand their motivation.

There is a libertarian solution to this false dilemma, but people like to use the state to bash people who think differently.

[John]

Cato,

Where did you get the idea that the SOCONs were responsible for the drug war? Nixon sure as hell wasn't a SOCON. The black leaders who demanded minimum mandatory sentencing were not SOCONs. In fact, the only people talking about prison reform in the 90s and 00s were the SOCONs. They were way ahead on the issue. Yet, Libertarians constantly accuse them of being responsible for the drug war.

And they only went for a national ban on abortion after the Supreme Court made the issue national in Roe v. Wade. Abortion was being debated and handled at the state level. It wasn't the SOCONs who demanded it be a right and made into a national issue. Yet, you and every other Libertarian blame them for abortion being a national issue.

I just don't get the kind of just emotional visceral hatred Libertarians have for SOCONs. Libertarians forever rewrite history and convince themselves that the SOCONs are responsible for every evil in the country.

I think what happens a lot is Libertarians pride themselves most on being above the fray. To be that, both sides need to be more or less the same. Sadly, the sides are not. The left has gone no kidding insane over the last 40 years. But to admit that is to give up on being above the fray. So, Libertarians convince themselves that the right is just as bad. So the worse the left gets, the worse Libertarians tell themselves the right is.

[CatoTheChipper]

Yes, I do think that social conservatives, concerned about the influences of various subcultures upon the broader culture, launched the drug war. They were joined by progressives, business interests, and other statists who all had their own reasons.

You won't get any moral equivalence argument regarding SOCONs and the progressive left from me. The progressive left has all of the SOCON downsides (nanny state, national greatness, etc.) and absolutely none of the SOCON upside (limited government, fairly free market, passing respect for Bill of Rights) from my perspective. I certainly don't hate the SOCONs. In fact, I am socially conservative in my personal life, but don't want the state to force others to conform to my moral sentiments or lifestyle. I really just think the SOCON's secular strategy is misguided, just like I think the libertine wing of the libertarian movement is misguided when it seeks to antagonize those who are religious or otherwise traditionalist.

[Zeb]

This is getting stupid. Of course we all have subtle biases about race to some extent or other. But if that is all it takes to make you "a racist" (not even the adjective "racist", but apparently racist in your very essence).

Stupid divisive bullshit. People will always have certain not-entirely-rational biases. You can't fix that. Why can't people be happy about the incredible progress that has been made on race. You'd think we were in the middle of a white supremacist political surge the way some people talk.

[Sudden]

It's also absurd when pointing out objective realities is deemed racist. Kelly Osbourne's comment didn't imply that all hispanics are toilet bowl cleaners, it only noted what I think would be corroborated by statistical research (though admittedly the regional bias of living in SoCal may be distorting my view here) that hispanics are disproportionately represented in the janitorial arts. It's not racist to note objective realities. It's not racist to note that black crime rates are disproportionately higher than other ethnic groups. It's observational reality. Racism would be jumping from specific data to blanket statements to "all/most X people are y."

[commodious spittoon]

God bless Kelly Osbourne. That little faux pas and its aftermath made me so happy.

[Sudden]

I'll readily admit that I'm far more tolerant of things that would be considered nominally racist by laypeople because of my philosophical and biological embrace of materialism. HBD is widely considered racist and while the field certainly has attracted racists seeking confirmation of their biases and those with a sort of intellectual immunity to charges of racism, it strikes me as dissonance that people can generally accept the notion of physical differences across population groups while simultaneously denying the possibility that differences among population groups can extend to cognitive or behavioral proclivities, as these are not the manifestations of some imbued spirit but rather governed by the material machinations of various hormones and nervous system components.

[Sudden]

Having said that, I remain unconvinced on HBD research to date. But the sad reality is that so few exceptional scholars in these fields will touch this subject because of the association with racism.

[Heroic Mulatto]

You might be interested in Robert Sapolsky's lectures on Human Behavioral Biology, particularly the last lecture on Individual Difference.

[Sudden]

I will definitely check these videos out over the weekend. I consider this a frontier of biology that is as exciting and complex as the hard sciences.

[commodious spittoon]

Just googling the term I can see how poisoned that well is.

[Sudden]

Indeed, and it is a crying shame as well because the toxicity of that well inhibits serious researchers from delving in and enhancing our understanding of the vast complexity and differentiation of humanity.

[lap83]

It seems like the racist charge is a convenient cover for liberal class guilt. What else were they going to use as a comeback? "Um, excuse me! The lady who cleans my toilets is white/Puerto Rican/etc" It's deflection

[WTF]

Racism would be jumping from specific data to blanket statements to "all/most X people are y."

Except that saying "all white people are racist" is the only way to not be racist. Unless you are white, then you are automatically racist no matter your thoughts and actions merely by the fact of your ethnicity. It's in Whitey's blood.

[Mr. Flanders]

That shits racist.

[Mr. Flanders]

Racist.

[CatoTheChipper]

I wonder why it is perfectly okay for George Bush or Rubin Navarrette to say, "immigrants do jobs that Americans won't do", but not okay for a Kelly Osbourne to actually specify one of those jobs in an obvious synecdoche. It seems that many Americans are literally so retarded in their education that they cannot grasp a simple figure of speech.

[Free Society]

You'd think we were in the middle of a white supremacist political surge the way some people talk.

These people are perfectly content with any non-white or non-Asian group's political supremacy. I assume the inconsistency is just a celebration of irony, nothing racist to see here, move along.

[straffinrun]

But here's a thought: What if a white person called out for such behavior instead said, "What I did was racist, and there's no other excuse. I was wrong."

And followed that with...but you can still go fuck yourself because you're only calling it out to further your Marxist bullshit.

[commodious spittoon]

Reality is racist. It's also terribly misogynist and cosmically unfair besides.

[John]

Yeah because public figures being called out for being racist and genuflecting about how wrong and racist they were has never happened.

[straffinrun]

And then they beat their chests in indignation when Trump says, "Apologize? I'll say it again."

[Mike M.]

The lowlife scum in the so-called "mainstream" media has always felt this way and talked this way among themselves; they just couldn't talk this way openly in the old days. Since about half the country has already told them to go fuck off, they're now emboldened and have ripped the mask completely off, that's all.

[Robert]

UFO sightings may be down, but what about total paranormal experiences? It just may be that people have gone back to interpreting these things as the kinds of strangeness they experienced before the Space Age. Does it not make sense that as there's less interest & activity in aerospace generally, there's less aerospace interpret'n of strange phenomena?

[Episteme]

UFO sightings are down because the aliens have finally, after all these years, cracked the code on whatever genetic work that they needed from cattle to repair their cloaking devices!

[Jessy08]

He couldn't tell the difference between Hamas and Hezbollah

Wait which one of those are the goat ropers and which one is the goat fuckers? I always get them confused too.

[Swiss Servator]

THIS!

[straffinrun]

Robert Smith? AP was a more violent RB. And you call yourself a viking fan?

[straffinrun]

Been a fan a while. I've actually seen them lose all 4 SBs. Feeling old.

[Pope Jimbo]

My worse moment as a parent was when my son told me that he was rooting for the Giants against the Patriots in the Superbowl. I asked him why because he normally likes the Pats and really liked Moss.

He said, "I want the Vikings to be the first team to win all 16 regular season games and the SuperBowl".

How could I do that to a kid? I almost called child welfare on myself. The only reason I didn't was because they were predicting snow and I didn't want to lose my free shoveler.

[John]

I am pretty sure the Progs had a lot to do with Prohibition. And the current SJWs are politicizing life in ways that go beyond anything the SOCONs ever did. Since when did the SOCONs demand we change what pronouns we use? There is not a single aspect of life the SJWs do not want to politicize.

Ask yourself, if you gave the most evil SOCON you can name. The one that lives in the nightmares of Libertarians everywhere, real power in this country, do you honestly think it would be even a tenth as bad as it would be if you gave even the average SJW that kind of power? I sure don't.

[Free Society]

I suspect they are more reviled simply because of their demographics.

I suspect that if Hispanics were more vociferous about their SOCON beliefs, those beliefs would be viewed with more understanding. Or if blacks were more vociferous about their higher rate of anti-homosexual beliefs, they would be downplayed as an inconsequential minority within the protected minority.