A University President Fights Campus Hypersensitivity with Free Speech

Chapman University president Jim Doti explains why his entire campus is a free speech zone.

Comedians such as Jerry Seinfield and Chris Rock aren't the only people who feel college campuses have grown intolerant of free speech. Jim Doti, President of Chapman University, shares their concerns and says campuses are worse off now than they were ten or twenty years ago.

"People [increasingly] feel that they are victims of some kind of social stigmatization, and as a result you have to be very, very sensitive," says Doti, "and free speech is not about being sensitive."

Reason TV sat down with Doti at this year's Freedom Fest to discuss the decline of campus free speech, why he thinks "multi-cultural" centers at colleges are a bad thing, and the value of a liberal arts education. 

About 7 minutes.

Edited by Amanda Winkler. Shot by Paul Detrick and Meredith Bragg.

This video was first released on August 4, 2015.

Comments

[Pathogen]

Chapman University president Jim Doti explains why his entire campus is a free speech zone tells eternally aggrieved, and emotionally stunted precious little snowflakes.. grow up!.. In the nicest possible way.

[Suthenboy]

I am glad I am not in school anymore. I wouldn't last a week. I am a very nice guy...until someone pisses me off.

[Zaytsev]

Trump?

[Suthenboy]

It is hard for me to believe that these 'free speech zones' haven't been sued out of existence already. The free speech zone is outlined by the border of the United States. Is there a court anywhere that would uphold a policy of restricting speech on campuses or relegating it to a small area?

[ClassicLib-NeverProg]

Unfortunately yes. While I think the idea of a "free speech zone" is absurd, the argument in support of them is that they are valid time, place and manner restrictions (which, again, I think is a huge stretch).

[Suthenboy]

"...time, place and manner restrictions..."

Shall. Make. No. Law.

You are correct. But it is worse than absurd. It is a bald-faced lie.

[Pathogen]

I suspect that if these academic administrators were forced to carry a 90 pound granite slab with the bill of rights carved upon it, free speech, and due process might resonate somewhat more with them. That, or.. just staple their tongues to their chins, the moment one of them utters the phrase "designated free speech zone".. that would probably stick with them awhile as well...

[gaoxiaen]

I always thought the entire USA was a free-speech zone. Silly me.

[Pathogen]

That they have been tolerated, let alone promoted and encouraged.. that speaks volumes about the state of academics, and the people responsible administering and facilitating "higher learning"..

[Libertarian]

Heck, the first time I'd heard of FSZs wasn't on campuses, it was outside a national political convention,wasn't it?

[bostonaod]

2004 DNC Boston was a notable example

[Cyto]

it goes back a good two decades farther than that. In the early 80's college campuses started using them to clean up things like shanty-town apartheid divestment protests. And to give street preachers somewhere to go where they didn't spoil the view.

Anti-abortion protests at abortion clinics were another big battleground, as judges ruled that protesters had to give patrons a certain amount of space.

The 80's saw the genesis of the idea, and the 90's saw the refinement into the "over behind the student center, around by the dumpster.... yeah, that 10 square meter area is your free speech zone" comedy that we have now.

And of course the PC terminology policing that extends throughout the campuses these days began in the 80's and really ramped up in the 90's.

One would have thought that this notion would have died by now. In the 2001 movie "Legally Blonde" they lampooned the PC police by having one feminist character brag about her plans to protest the use of the sexist term "semester" for the school term. Instead she advocated moving to the world "ovester". If Hollywood was already so on board with the idea that campus PC police are ridiculous way back then, wouldn't you think the idea would have been laughed out of the nation by now? Instead it has just picked up steam, which is really sad and kinda pathetic.

[wareagle]

ask the Oklahoma students kicked out of the state-run University of for saying impolite things.

[Agammamon]

If its good enough for the President, its good enough for the rest of the country.

[Inigo "Chip" DuBois]

He gets asked, "Is it [the pressure] coming from students, from faculty, from outside agitators?"

I think its coming from parents even more than from the infamous SJWs.

It's the overly protective "helicopter" parents who raised a whole generation of kids to be completely and utterly safe at all times. Not just safe from child molesters, schoolyard bullies, or unhelmeted bicycle accidents -- but even safe from losing in a sports competition, getting a bad grade from a teacher, or getting their sheltered worldview and carefully-crafted opinions challenged in any way.

The thing is, you can't raise a kid to be totally, 100% dependent on mommy shielding them from any possibility of hurt feelings from age 0-18, and then suddenly expect them to be self-reliant, reasonably confident adults overnight.

[Hamster of Doom]

Pitchforks and torches would change his sinning ways.

[Hyperion]

Exactly. You just need to change 'would' to 'will'. This infidel and heretic must be burned.

[Jerryskids]

"People [increasingly] feel that they are victims of some kind of social stigmatization, and as a result you have to be very, very sensitive..."
.
If they were truly helpless victims, you wouldn't have to be sensitive at all. You could just slap them around and tell them to STFU. But you can't do that, can you? It's a funny idea of oppressor and oppressed when the victims are the ones telling the victimizers what they can and cannot say, when the most powerful are those who claim they are the most powerless. Who is the biggest winner if top prize goes to the biggest loser?

[Pathogen]

Funny, how slate/salon/mojo/etc. just sorta.. gloss right over that..

[Cyto]

Except it isn't the victim class that gets to make and enforce these demands. For the most part it is rich white people who went to ivy league colleges who make the final decisions.

The irony of rich white college professors and journalists with family money lecturing everyone else about how they are allowed to speak (for the protection of minorities) is palpable.

[Pl?ya Manhattan.]

Unfortunately, most of Chapman's students never set foot on campus.

[Hyperion]

Chapman University president Jim Doti

Obviously a rat fucking bagger who hates children and wants to put women and minorities back in chains. And he is surely going to be labeled as such and driven out of academia. I can't even believe that an angry tweeter mob haven't taken up pitchforks and torches and burned the guys house down yet.

[wareagle]

well, he runs a for-profit university, which is even worse than the other things. Chapman is for profit, no?

[Hyperion]

He didn't build that!

[Derpetologist]

Here's some recent college buffoonery for you to enjoy:

College Republicans propose GPA redistribution:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T29ouYzwVws

And here is the idiotic prog rebuttal:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AQ3ABR_ifhs

[Hyperion]

I just can't do it. This morning, I was over at Yahoo. Yes, Yahoo. I have no fucking idea why I clicked the link, but the topic was that Scotland is going to outlaw GMOs.

The stupidity that ensued was epic. I can't take anymore of it today.

[Derpetologist]

It's best to build up your tolerance to derp gradually. I can suggest some exercises. Think of it as pilates for derp.

[Hyperion]

Dude, I posted at Politico for 3 years, at HuffPo for more than a year. And I've been posting at WaPo for at least 2 years.

That's some extremely punishing shit, to say the least. I've been a brave warrior, but sometimes I still run out of strength and have to give it a rest.

[Derpetologist]

Good heavens, I'm amazed you're still alive.

[Hyperion]

I'm currently self medicating with copious amounts of alcohol.

[Old Man With Candy]

But they'll eat haggis.

[Swiss Servator, ...ouch.]

LEAVE HAGGIS ALONE!

[Old Man With Candy]

No worries there. The invention of haggis involved meagre food supply, alcohol, and a dare. That gives Scots no room to tell anyone about food or eating.

[Swiss Servator, ...ouch.]

*chugs IRN Bru, belches a war cry and draws claymore*

[C. S. P. Schofield]

"People [increasingly] feel that they are victims of some kind of social stigmatization"

And we should assure them that they are. We consider them immature, hypersensitive twits.

[Derpetologist]

OT: ISIS unveils the map of their proposed empire

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/w.....ap-6224227

They're certainly ambitious.

[Pathogen]

"They're certainly ambitious."

Well, that's not the entire globe that they originally aspired for, soo.. I guess the revised map could be construed as nuanced pragmatism on their part...

[Derpetologist]

The rest of the world comes in phase 2.

[Pathogen]

Ahhh.. Phase 2.. Brilliant. Is there a Phase 3?

[Derpetologist]

Collect all the underpants?

[Swiss Servator, ...ouch.]

3. Prophet!

[C. Anacreon]

This time, I"m narrowing my gaze at you....

[Francisco d'Anconia]

You, sir, have no shame.

[Swiss Servator, ...ouch.]

Conceded.

[GamerFromJump]

OF COURSE!

[*GILMORE*]

" ISIS unveils the map of their proposed empire"

versions of that have been floating around for about 2 years.

Interestingly, its not all that different from the map Sam Huntington made in the early 1990s indicating the rough outlines of contemporary cultural-blocs

he did a bunch of other similar maps that showed where conflicts were likeliest to emerge due to where these blobs are trying to expand/where they overlap

[Derpetologist]

Bosh! Flimshaw! I've been assured by TOP MEN that this so-called clash of civilizations is just neo-Orientalist jiggery-pokery!

[Hyperion]

I would think that Limeytardia and France should be their first ambition, since all they have to do is walk in and say boo and the giant pussies will surrended and ask them if they can bake them a nice turkey pot pie.

[Agammamon]

So it *isn't* just a map of the world, all in one color?

[Cytotoxic]

That's why we're bombing them.

[Rebel Scum]

This chilling map reveals the calculated way ISIS plan to take over the world by 2020.

Worst. 5-year plan. Ever.

[Swiss Servator, ...ouch.]

GOSPLAN AKBAR!

[Corning]

Looking at Russia and China on that map and wondering how stupid can Isis really be.

An improvised technical made from a surplus Humvee that the US gave to "Syrian Rebels" my cut through Kurds and US trained Iraqi forces like butter but who is so delusional to think it would go that way with the Red Army?

[Derpetologist]

Arrest of man protesting outside college free speech zone:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Gr1BIDi97M

[Hyperion]

And the spineless sheeple stood there and watched, and did nothing, totally fucking clueless.

[Hyperion]

If I would have been there, I think they would have arrested me too. That shit makes my blood boil.

[Derpetologist]

I was at a protest in DC a few years ago. I decided to take a break and go to the Natural History Museum. I was stopped at the entrance and told that I could either leave the sign at the entrance or flip it around. I flipped it around. Turns out it's "illegal" to hold up signs at certain places in DC.

[Derpetologist]

BTW, my sign read:

STOP THE CHILDREN
TAX THE WHALES
SAVE THE DRUGS

It's gotten me in trouble before:

Even so, some of the participants in the event expressed displeasure about at least one of the other protesters who turned out that morning.

As Thomas Harty stood in front of the courthouse, facing the street and holding a sign that he said was protesting "stupid political slogans," a woman moved in front of him, appearing to block the sign from view. Members of the media who attempted to talk to Harty and photograph his sign also were initially blocked by fellow protesters who moved between the reporter and Harty.

"They don't appreciate my irony," Harty said of his sign, which stated "Stop the children, Tax the whales, Save the drugs."

http://journal-news.net/page/c.....l?nav=5006

[Derpetologist]

When the other protesters moved from in front of him, a third individual came up behind Harty, holding a sign over his head that decried him as an "infiltrator." Meanwhile, a woman ripped a yellow sticker from his sign. Officials said the sticker had been placed there to show that the sign was approved, though they were unsure how Harty obtained the sticker.

For the record, an official gave it to me.

Harty said the claims that he was an "infiltrator" were untrue. He identified himself as a Libertarian, and said he supports the tea party movement's stance on lowering government spending, as well as their take on other principles.

Others were skeptical, and said there had been reports of people planning to attend tax day tea parties across the country with fake signs in an attempt to give the movement a bad name.

Rucker said Harty previously attended other events the local tea party group had held without incident. She said she didn't think he came to Thursday's event with any ill intentions.

"I don't think that this gentlemen was trying to say anything negative, or do anything negative," she said.

[Pathogen]

I'm in favor of taxing children, and the whales must be stopped.. at all costs..

[Derpetologist]

Our friends in Japan are on the front line of stopping the whale menace.

Would you like to know more?

[SQRLSY One]

You mean the Japs are aborting unborn whales?!?!?
Off with their heads! Nuke them all now!
(Unborn whales have SOULS, ya know!!! How would YOU feel if you, as an unborn whale, had been aborted?!?!?!)

[Hyperion]

Fucka you whaaaallleees, and fucka you dolpheeennnssss!!!!

[*GILMORE*]

Don't think for a second the whales wouldn't kill you all if you gave them the chance.

[Hyperion]

One of my best moments ever was at the harbor in Baltimore when some morons were protesting outside the aquarium about setting the whales and other 'prisoner' fish and mammals free. Yes, they wanted to actually release these dolphins and whales, etc., into the bay and set them free.

When we were walking by, I heckled and insulted several of the morons so that pretty much everyone nearby could hear it. I wasn't the only one dong it. My wife didn't like it and asked me to stop, but it felt damn good.

[gaoxiaen]

+1 whaleburger

[*GILMORE*]

Fairfax, VA, is way too expensive to allow real homeless people on their streets... so activists create "Fake Homeless" dummies to highlight lack of 'affordable housing' in sky-high-priced D.C. suburbs.

"The mannequins ? faceless and made mostly of gray duct tape ? wear worn and baggy clothing, like a homeless person might.

They have been positioned in office buildings and public spaces across Fairfax County, a deliberate and sometimes off-putting attempt to bring attention to a societal problem that, in this wealthy Northern Virginia suburb, is mostly hidden from public view

...The 40 mannequins created for the county's effort have been on display since April inside building lobbies and government offices and at the occasional outdoor festival. The idea was inspired by a similar effort in Cleveland.

The Fairfax government's Web site encourages people to post online "selfies" with the mannequins as a way of spreading the word. The placards describing each creation include the hashtag #ItsTimeToEndHomelessness...."

Actual homeless people were not contacted for their point of view on this. Also, poor people smell.

[Sevo]

Gilmore, an aside:
I apologize for letting my temper get the best of me in my comments last night. No excuses, just an apology.

[*GILMORE*]

no sweat. aint no thing.

[Swiss Servator, ...ouch.]

If you ain't got that swing, bada doo op?

[Hyperion]

I live in MD. The entire Baltimore/DC/NOVA megalopolis area is absurdly overpriced.

I think that DC has now surpassed SanFran as the most expensive real estate market in the USA.

The reason is obvious, the government propped up economy and corresponding overly inflated salaries of government and government contract employees.

This is all going to come crashing down. It's inevitable. I plan to be long gone before that happens.

[Akira]

Why don't they just make a law that forces real estate owners to make some of their apartments affordable? I heard NYC has something like that, and I can only assume that it works exactly as intended with no negative effects.

/prog

[Hyperion]

They do have something like that here. It's called Section 8. Those neighborhoods go downhill quickly until they are unliveable and everyone flees the area. So I mean, there's an option for you if you don't care about safety or quality of living.

[GamerFromJump]

And then you get places like San Bernardino, who are so grabasstic as to skip straight from useful to useless, without even passing through the Section 8 "marginally useful" period.

[Derpetologist]

Maybe if it weren't so many regulations on renters and developers there'd be more housing, thus decreasing its price. It's just crazy enough to work!

Wait a minute. Perhaps she's right. Perhaps I've been wrong to blindly follow the medical traditions and superstitions of past centuries. Maybe we barbers should test these assumptions analytically, through experimentation and a "scientific method". Maybe this scientific method could be extended to other fields of learning: the natural sciences, art, architecture, navigation. Perhaps I could lead the way to a new age, an age of rebirth, a Renaissance! [ thinks for a minute ] Naaaaaahhh!

[Cytotoxic]

Like Texas? But then we might now have a housing boom-bust cycle to ride to bigger and bigger government!

[Gojira]

We've had a crazy housing thing here lately, esp. in Dallas and Austin. My house has appreciated $40,000 in the last six years, and there's less than a month's supply on the market. It's nuts.

What's worse is, regular people can't even get them. They're all being bought by these big investors, who pay cash, and pay way over what somebody getting a mortgage can offer (since the house has to appraise out high enough to cover the mortgage). My father died last year, and his house was on the market for a single weekend. We eventually sold it to a Taiwanese construction firm for $15k over what the pathetic family with a mortgage could offer, mewling about how they wanted it for their family. Well, then save up and get rich like the fucking chinks, bitch!

[Mrs. Lemuel Struthers]

Enjoy it while it last. We call this the crack-up boom phase.

[Gojira]

I actually don't like it. 1) I have a paralyzing fear of debt, so I'm not going to take out a home equity loan to buy a bunch of shit, and 2) I don't want to leave the area, so since all the other houses are appreciating just as fast, if we were to sell, all the money would just be eaten up by the new higher prices on another house. So basically, it does nothing for me except drive my property taxes up.

[egould310 reppin' LBC]

Texas, Houston in particular, is way overheated. Alot of Chinese and California investors throwing absurd money at anything.

In May, I had a very successful real estate developer, a Houston native, tell me to stay out. It's going to crash.

[Mrs. Lemuel Struthers]

Yeah. It really is zero sum unless you sell and then rent for awhile. You can wait for the crash and buy on the cheap, but most people don't want to rent and then take the chance they'll find a home they actually want to buy. It sucks for the normal homeowner looking to build equity.

[Red Rocks Rockin]

What's worse is, regular people can't even get them. They're all being bought by these big investors, who pay cash, and pay way over what somebody getting a mortgage can offer (since the house has to appraise out high enough to cover the mortgage).

It's the same thing in Denver--the market's been on an upswing for years, but right around December of last year it went nuclear. There's typically about triple the number of listings that are currently available, so anyone wanting to get a house listed at $250K or less usually has to bid $15K over listing just to have a prayer. My cousin's ex-wife put her house on the market for $375K--it had two offers the same day it listed. And to add insult to injury, rental vacancies are minimal, so you're typically paying $1300 a month to get a two bedroom. It's not like Denver is San Francisco because there's lots of space, there's just no inventory and builders aren't keeping up. It's a classic supply and demand situation.

[Pl?ya Manhattan.]

In the last 6 years, my house has appreciated outside of the window where my wife and I can jointly claim the capital gains exemption.

CA is fucking insane.

[Francisco d'Anconia]

Sell it and move somewhere nice.

[Pl?ya Manhattan.]

Somewhere with avocados?

[Corning]

It won't last long. Commodities market has crashed tech stocks have crashed financial markets are flat drifting through the air like Wild E Coyote after the ledge below him has fallen.

What you are seeing is money fleeing the FED fed stock bubble for shelter....Mortgaged Residential Real Estate will not be a safe refuge.

[CJR]

Here in Fairfax, huh? I got some selfies for you. #molestthehomeless

[Bitterbear]

What nice university they have. It would be a shame if an anonymous source cried rape and no media outlet would bother to fact-check it.

[Agammamon]

Chapman University president Jim Doti explains why his entire campus is a free speech zone.

Don't call it a 'Free Speech Zone'. That normalizes restricting speech.

Call other universities 'Restricted Speech Zones'. *They're* the ones who are outliers.

[Gojira]

In your face, Trump! Period Pride Forever!

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/u.....on-6221798

[Hyperion]

*barf*

[Gojira]

Look at the picture at the end, where you can see it in her crotch. So...sexy.

[Cytotoxic]

UNCONTROLLABLE VOMITTING

[Gojira]

Dude you're Canadian, right? Just think of it as ketchup, and have her sit in your Kraft Dinner.

[RBS]

Is that the chick who ran the marathon with no tampon to normalize the idea of menstruation?

[Pathogen]

No. That is the chick who went to run in a marathon, and inadvertently drove the store she meant to pick up some tampons from. After being derided and ridiculed for her appalling lack of fundamental hygiene, so opted to take up a crusade asserting a sanctimonious, and high moral ground position on the subtleties and nuisances of menstruation, and to cover her own ass in front of other women who would've immediately called her out for her egregious oversight.. but were compelled to heed her call.. Feminizum!

[gaoxiaen]

Good opportunity to earn your red wings. On nationwide TV. Provided that she isn't a lesbian.

[Rebel Scum]

Harvard Business School graduate Kiran Gandhi, 26, said: "I ran with blood dripping down my legs. I felt very empowered by that"

The empowerment of being unsanitary and disgusting.

[Mrs. Lemuel Struthers]

I'm proud of this women! So proud I plan on initiating a poop your pants at work day tomorrow. Because body secretions deserve equal respect!

[RBS]

Hey, it's cool to pee in your pants.

[Mrs. Lemuel Struthers]

Occasionally, we all laugh a bit too hard and squeeze out a drop. It's only natural and nothing to be ashamed of.

[Gojira]

You can make these pants your official office uniform.

[gaoxiaen]

Only if you're a Navy SEAL.

[AlmightyJB]

Just let your love flow like a mountain stream

[Swiss Servator, ...ouch.]

Gah!

[Pope Jimbo]

Uta Pippeg did it first (and better).

http://images1.houstonpress.co.....honuta.jpg

In 1996, Uta Pippig became the first woman to win the Boston Marathon three times in a row. This historic accomplishment seems even more remarkable when you consider that she reportedly crossed the finish line with blood and diarrhea dripping down her legs ? and live television cameras rolling. As Pippig recalls, "I started having stomach cramps about 5 miles into the race, and shortly after I had diarrhea. I was self-conscious [about it] not only for me ? but in a caring way for our sport." She considered dropping out 7 or 8 miles in and even walked a little. Although uncomfortable, her focus shifted from winning the race to staying in it and running as well as she could in this situation. Later in the marathon, she admits "I was frightened when I felt blood flowing down my legs." That red trickle was widely attributed to menstrual problems, which Pippig says was a misconception. After winning the race, she was diagnosed with "ischemic colitis," or inflammatory bowel disease.

Normally, reporters would have called her out on her BS excuse for bleeding, but who's really gonna argue with a chick in full PMS mode? Amirite?

[Derpetologist]

Tonight, I will again be helping a priest from Pakistan show a presentation on persecution against Christians over there. Christians are about 2% of the population there. 100 or so years ago, most were Hindu untouchables. They converted in the hope of bettering their lives, but persecution persists. They are often called Chuhras, which is what Hindu untouchables were called. The word is meant as an insult. Since they are still thought of as unclean, most work as street sweepers and garbage collectors. It is almost impossible for them to get any other kind of work.

Since they are a small and powerless group, they are frequently attacked under the color of law. Pakistan has harsh blasphemy laws. People who want to attack or rob Christians simply accuse them of blasphemy. The police do little to protect accused blasphemers.

There is a church in Peshawar that is disguised to look like a mosque. They only way you can tell is by the cross on the roof. Most churches in Pakistan are disguised this way. The priest said that one day, a man went up to fix the cross and was shot dead. Later, another fixed the cross, but was shot dead when he climbed down. The same church has also been attacked by suicide bombers.

ISIS has established cells in Pakistan and they have vowed to exterminate the country's Christians.

[Gojira]

Yes, well, some centuries ago white people did some rather nasty things in the name of Christianity, therefore, all barbarism from all other religions is excused forever and your point is moot, but racist.

[Gojira]

*not only moot, but racist

[Derpetologist]

+1 moral equivalence AKA "but what about such and such?"

During a speech Thursday at the National Prayer Breakfast, President Barack Obama leavened his condemnation of the Islamic State's recent atrocities with a word of warning to his fellow Christians who wish to conflate the militant group's actions with Islam as a whole.
"Lest we get on our high horse and think this is unique to some other place, remember that during the Crusades and the Inquisition, people committed terrible deeds in the name of Christ," the president said. "In our home country, slavery and Jim Crow all too often was justified in the name of Christ."

Murderous extremism, he continued, "is not unique to one group or one religion. There is a tendency in us, a sinful tendency that can pervert and distort our faith."

Best response quote:

"The most unfortunate thing about the Crusades is that they failed."
John Hinderaker, Powerline Blog

http://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-.....s-31156153

[Cytotoxic]

Obama is an asshole and so Hinderaker. There was nothing 'defensive' about the Crusades and they were never going to succeed. They were a huge drain on resources for Medieval Europe. Goldberg engages in fantasy when he claims that Christianity is always a source of improvement for mankind. What a load of shit. So much shit from so many directions.

[Gojira]

Not sure you can call a reaction coming several centuries after the fact "legitimate defense".

"Why are these white people coming here and attacking us?"

"Well, apparently our great-great-great- great-great-great-great-great-great-grandfathers took this land from them."

"Took the land from their ancestors?"

"No, most of these guys seem to be French. Our great-great-great- great-great-great-great-great-great-grandfathers took it from their co-religionists. And now they're here to take it back."

"Seems legit."

[Cytotoxic]

I...do not understand your criticism. I am not saying the current bout of Islamic terror is a defense against The Crusades. I am just saying his characterization of the The Crusades as defensive action is wrong.

[Gojira]

No criticism. I was agreeing with you. I don't think you get to yell "legitimate defense!" in response to an action that, 1) targeted people you are unrelated to except in the broadest possible sense as co-religionists, and 2) took place hundreds of years ago.

[Cytotoxic]

I think the First Crusade did happen shortly after Mad Caliph Omar started persecuting Christians in the Holy Land. What HindeRaker and his fellow revisionists fail to mention is that Caliph Omar was deposed not long after and his successors re-established the normal treatment of Christians ie second class but better than in Christendom Europe.

A better case for self-defense would be made in the fight against Moors in Spain, but even that doesn't work because The Caliphate treated its people better than Christendom Europe, so they had every right to invade and establish the Caliphate in Spain.

[Rufus J. Firefly]

The Crusades were as much an economic action as it was religious and for vainglory.

Obama is the ignoramus doing all the conflating.

[sarcasmic]

Goldberg engages in fantasy when he claims that Christianity is always a source of improvement for mankind.

When hasn't it been? Seriously. Name some place or culture that has been left worse off after Christianity has been introduced. I don't mean Christian theocratic rule. I mean the actual religion that preaches that people in society should be like nice to each other and stuff because like Jesus said so and stuff. Christianity teaches cooperation, not taking by force. It teaches that charity should be from the heart, not done by force. Free market capitalism naturally arises from people cooperating with each other and engaging in voluntary transactions, rather than using force. Sure you can focus on odd shit from Leviticus and then dismiss everything else, which is stupid and what I totally expect you to do, but the main point of Christianity is "Hey folks. Let's do our best to try to get along here." By the way I'm an atheist, but I do see value in many (not all) Christian teachings. I just don't jive with the whole god thing.

[AlmightyJB]

Religion has often been used as a justification for men to do what they would have done anyways. If the crusaders wouldn't have been looting under the flag of the cross, they would have done so under a different flag.

[Zaytsev]

The Christian Golden Rule is pretty damn close to the NAP.

[Pope Jimbo]

Um, I'm guessing there are a lot of tribes in Mexico and the US who probably aren't all that happy with the brand of Christianity that they got.

I agree that in principle there are a lot of decent rules to live by in Christianity, but you do have to admit that the Church's record in bringing the heathens in the New World to the cross wasn't that great.

[Cytotoxic]

See also, "Salem".

[GamerFromJump]

See also, "liberation theology", (read: God is a communist and will give you other people's shit),

[Cytotoxic]

Seriously? I get that you're addicted to your own peculiar brand of contrariness, but even this is a bit much.

For starters: all of the countries dominated by Catholic Spain, particularly in Latin America. The Church was a conduit for suppressing birth control and its doctrines pushed people away from enlightenment and individualism.

[sarcasmic]

For starters: all of the countries dominated by Catholic Spain, particularly in Latin America.

Try reading my entire post before you comment on it. Specifically: "I don't mean Christian theocratic rule."

[Peaceboner]

First crusade was called as defense.

[Cytotoxic]

Against what? The persecution of Christians in a far-away land? Many of those Christians were slaughtered by their 'liberators'.

[sarcasmic]

Oh, toxicAsshole, I saw the thread the other day when you complained about sleeping problems. Like many people said, try melatonin. I use it from time to time, and I give it to my kid. We used it on the stepkid when he was younger, but not once he established regular sleeping patterns. It's not a drug and it doesn't cause dependency. All it is is the natural something (hormone?) that your body squirts out at what it thinks is bed time. It doesn't knock you out. It's no guarantee of sleep. You can fight through it. But it does make you drowsy and yawn a lot like you do when you have a regular sleeping pattern and are approaching bed time. It's what many travelers use to adjust to new time zones and train the body to naturally release the stuff when they take the pill instead of when their body is used to doing it. The worst side effect is vivid dreams.

[Cytotoxic]

Thanky. BTW melatonin is not a hormone, and your body always makes it. Light breaks it down. It builds up without light and that puts you to sleep-hopefully.

The more you know with Cytotoxic.

[Rufus J. Firefly]

Christianity did have a positive impact on Western civilization.

[GamerFromJump]

The point that need to be pounded into these equivocating assholes' head with a crowbar is that other religions no longer DO THAT SHIT!

[Rufus J. Firefly]

"Lest we get on our high horse"

What a condescending little shit.

[gaoxiaen]

The Crusades were very much appreciated by the locksmiths of the era.

[Cytotoxic]

Pakistan's Shi'ites are not treated much better. I don't think they harsh on Pakistan's Christians very much. Pakistan must be terminated.

ISIS establishing cells? They have harsh competition from a bazillion other militant groups. Bandwagon riders.

[Jerryskids]

No hope of them moving to Bangladesh? (How bad is it in Pakistan that Bangladesh is a better place to live?)

[Pathogen]

I though Chuhras were a fried pastry, covered in cinnamon sugar, and dipped in chocolate...

[AlmightyJB]

Speaking of which, I think this would probably go pretty good with some Rumchata after Sunday brunch.

http://crazycups.com/crazy-cup.....erve-cups/

[Swiss Servator, ...ouch.]

*narrows gaze*

[commodious spittoon]

There is a church in Peshawar that is disguised to look like a mosque.

Well way to out them, man. Why not send it over the Gawker while you're at it?

[Hyperion]

Like someone here once said, if the proglodytes are going to rule, I almost want the terrorists to win.

[Winston]

So the new Fantastic Four movie has an outrageously low Rotten Tomatoes score. Is it that terrible or has the critic groupthink caused people to go out of their way to pan it more than it deserves? Not helping is that RT only measures if it is a good or bad review so a movie that has universally mild pans can have a worse score than a movie with a small group of passionate fans and overwhelming harsh pans.

[Mint Berry Crunch]

Supposedly the guy who directed it basically disowned the finished product, after he and the studio were butting heads throughout production.

I predict when I eventually see it on DVD or HBO or whatever, I'll shrug my shoulders and say "It wasn't really worse than the Jessica Alba ones."

[Winston]

I've seen people of the interwebz bitching about Josh Trank's white privilege. On one hand it is nice to see Hollywood's backpatting progressivism thrown back in their faces, but really? And I'm pretty sure plenty of white directors have had their careers ruined due to flops or bad behavior.

[Mint Berry Crunch]

The only racial / proggy stuff I've seen is about how they made the fire guy black. "Josh Trank's white privilege"? I guess I'm glad I mainly stick to IMDB and Box Office Mojo, and don't look for movie info at Salon.

Privileged White Male or not, his previous movie Chronicle is OK, if only for the talent show scene. IIRC the found footage angle wasn't really needed though.

[C. Anacreon]

I saw the hot reporter chick who had some nice nekkid sex scenes in the first season of "House of Cards" plays Invisible Girl in the new version. Any report on how that worked out?

[Pl?ya Manhattan.]

I await your research.

[Crusty Juggler]

Kate Mara in Shooter*

*Also known as the best part of that movie, even though it was a Jugs TNT fave back when he had cable, which he doesn't because he is better than you.

[Pl?ya Manhattan.]

She's not unattractive.

[Corning]

"Is it that terrible or has the critic groupthink caused people to go out of their way to pan it more than it deserves?"

It is the 3rd reboot.....

I am going to assume it is horrible.

[Cytotoxic]

It is not the third reboot. There was a movie and a sequel 10 years ago roughly, and now this one. It's the first reboot not counting the thing they made in the '90s.

[Jerome "Chip" Froinlaven]

I sent my daughter out for chicken and she has yet to return!

[AlmightyJB]

Dude she is eating your chicken right now.

[Mr Lizard]

Do you suspect a fowl errand?

[Swiss Servator, ...ouch.]

Late, but needed...

*narrows gaze*

[Jerome "Chip" Froinlaven]

I have it and the pieces are small. I noticed a pop can the other day that was 11.5 ounces and of course shrinking the amount of a product is one way to disguise price increases but would they stop growing chickens early to do the same thing?

No inflation my ass.

[AlmightyJB]

The young chickens are more tender.

[Pl?ya Manhattan.]

Sometimes. Some of the young fryers are so fat that they break their own legs. I'm in no way a PETA guy, but that bothers me a bit.

[Pl?ya Manhattan.]

*takes bite of hot wing*

Just kidding, I'm having ribs tonight.

[AlmightyJB]

I love ribs. We need more bbq joints around here

[Pl?ya Manhattan.]

Mine came from within.

[AlmightyJB]

nice. you smoke them?

[AlmightyJB]

You have an electric smoker right?

[Pl?ya Manhattan.]

Yeah. This one

I did about 40 minutes of white oak, and then 6 hours in the sous vide.

I think it strikes the right balance: fork tender, but doesn't taste like an ash tray.

[AlmightyJB]

That sounds perfect. Yeah, you don't want to oversmoke your thinner cuts.

[Jerome "Chip" Froinlaven]

I like nice big thighs. These were pathetic.

[AlmightyJB]

Yeah, you need to just fry your own.

[Heroic Mulatto]

I like nice big thighs.

You don't say?

[Jerome "Chip" Froinlaven]

Well of course that's a genre of videos.

[Crusty Juggler]

Such heavenly donk fuckery!

Recently Kenny mentioned that if there was a way to vote for "top commenters" Agile Cyborg would surely be near the top, and I agree. However, if I had to make a list, HM would be my in my top five, too.

[Heroic Mulatto]

You don't love me; you just love my doggystyle.

[Jerome "Chip" Froinlaven]

Damn, not so heroic with that link.

[Pl?ya Manhattan.]

You're fired.

[Heroic Mulatto]

You could have left it alone, but you didn't. And now I'm forced to do this:

Noam Chomsky - The Alternative to Capitalism

[Crusty Juggler]

HM just dropped out of my top five. Welcome to the top, Mr. Lizard.

[Heroic Mulatto]

My thoughts on this development.

[Pl?ya Manhattan.]

What does our current generation have against True High Definition?

[Lord at War]

Two small breasts, two fat thighs, two left wings...

The Hillary meal!

[Crusty Juggler]

Who wants to dance?

[Jerome "Chip" Froinlaven]

You mean do Charles Dance impressions?

[Crusty Juggler]

The man is a treasure and cannot be impersonated.

That clip is a good reminder to up my use of the term "fuckery."

[Crusty Juggler]

Eva Green is my favorite Bond girl.

[AlmightyJB]

B?r?nice Marlohe was pretty hot.

[AlmightyJB]

And then there's Maria Grazia Cucinotta. There are so many beautiful bond girls.

[Pl?ya Manhattan.]

I have something for you:
http://reason.com/blog/2015/08.....nt_5503260

Not my post.

[Crusty Juggler]

Her and I dated for a short time.

[Pl?ya Manhattan.]

Not enough eyebrow for you, eh?

[Crusty Juggler]

Surprisingly, she smelled a tad too ripe for my liking.

[Cytotoxic]

She was excellent in 300: Rise of Empire!

[commodious spittoon]

Wow. A 100+ comment thread that didn't involve any of the usual shit-stirrers. Impressive.

[Mr Lizard]

Your. Mother.

[straffinrun]

Great minds, Lizard. Great minds.

[straffinrun]

Hey, let's turn on each other.

[commodious spittoon]

Pfft, who do you think we are, Democrats?

[Jerome "Chip" Froinlaven]

#snacklivesmatter

[straffinrun]

We exist so that Democrats don't have to turn on each other?

[Pl?ya Manhattan.]

Hang on. you'll see.

[Sevo]

"Wow. A 100+ comment thread that didn't involve any of the usual shit-stirrers. Impressive."

Sorry, been busy with concern trolls on the Nagasaki thread.
BTW, in a just world, today would be the day the Japanese hold a national holiday honoring Groves, Oppy and Paul Gibbets. A lot of them are alive as a result of those folks.

[hamilton]

Nick, if the Jacket could be a shirt, it'd be that shirt.

[*GILMORE*]

Haiti: Still Unbelievable Disastrous Corrupt Clusterfuck

I especially liked the writer's blaming the conditions on Haiti... "still recovering from the earthquake"...... of 2010.

Yep, that's the ticket. Natural Disaster. Never mind that the place was *exactly the same* before the earthquake hit. For the previous 200 years or so.

"...fistfights broke out as partisans attempted to stuff ballot boxes and engage in other visible irregularities. At one voting center in downtown Port-au-Prince, groups of young men ripped up paper ballots as heavily armed police shot into the air to re-establish order*. Rocks were thrown in response before authorities closed the polling station."

(*i.e. provided brief break in between forms of disorder)

They never fail to fail. Its a greatest-hits record of "Dysfunction-Statistics" = "since independence (1799), Haiti has suffered 32 coups" They've almost *never* had a single elected leader finish a term. And they routinely elect LOL-inducing characters...like 2011's "Sweet Mickey" Martelly. A Pop Singer. Why the hell not?

And there's like 100,000 people in the NGO business who think that the solution is that the UN just needs to devote more funding for bigger 'No Littering' signs or something.

[commodious spittoon]

Impossible. Hillary fixed that place up nice.

[Pl?ya Manhattan.]

Hillary did a lot of things.

"Accomplishments", you might say.

[Cytotoxic]

They need a Pinochet with big guns and probably also need to dissolve the country into a bunch of ZEDEs.

[*GILMORE*]

I know just the man

[PapayaSF]

In case people missed this the other day:

Krugman and Bernanke are walking down the street and see some dog shit. Bernanke says: "I'll give you $20,000 to eat that shit." Krugman does it, gets paid, and they keep walking.

After a while they see more dog shit on the sidewalk. Seeing an opportunity for revenge, Krugman says: "Tell you what, I'll give you $20,000 to eat that shit." Bernanke does it, Krugman gives him back the money, and they keep walking.

After a while Bernanke says: "I'm feeling pretty sick. We both ate shit and neither of us is any richer."

Krugman answers: "You're missing the bigger picture. We've increased the GDP by $40,000 and created two jobs."

[Notorious G.K.C.]

Some cogent criticisms of policing-for-profit, but also including such gems as -

"Society itself is to blame....

"when people respond to "Black Lives Matter" with "All Lives Matter," it grates. All Lives Matter may be one's personal position, but until this country values all lives equally, it is both reasonable and indeed necessary to specify the lives it seems to value less."

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/08.....nytopinion

[commodious spittoon]

Fair enough. What's the policy prescription, then? Because if the policy is in any way racially based, it's a joke.

[PapayaSF]

No, it's stupid, not "fair." No country ever has or ever will "value all lives equally." Sure, equal treatment under law is essential, but all societies honor productive citizens over dimwitted lowlives like Michael Brown and Trayvon Martin. It's not a color thing. If Brown and Martin had been white, no extra tears would have been shed for them. All sensible people understand that everyone is better off with fewer violent predators walking the streets.

"Black Lives Matter" is just identity politics and special pleading, as one can tell from the way they ignore the fact that by far the #1 risk to black lives is not whites or cops but other blacks.

[commodious spittoon]

Um, okay.

But if the idea behind combatting police brutality is advancing the racialist agenda, then either police brutality continues apace with no substantial change or they're eventuating European-style no-go zones.

[*GILMORE*]

Hes certainly arguing "keep the police-state"... But make sure it uses force "proportionately"

And he doesn't mean "to crime levels"

In fact he's not saying anything at all other than suggesting the GOP is to blame for allowing budgets to ever be 'pressured'

Good government needs unlimited money. Then it will work great.

[Crusty Juggler]

Trigger warning: you will probably not want to click this as it is absurd

Okay, fellow searchers and believers of truth, join our people in our boycott of Fox News this week.

Or, stay a #cuckservative and let women and brown people run your lives.

[Cytotoxic]

Whew it's like a website made by a 'New Right' Agile Cyborg.

[Corning]

If Trump wins we will be ruled by these brown women:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DP6S3KE2DaI

[The Late P Brooks]

And there's like 100,000 people in the NGO business who think that the solution is that the UN just needs to devote more funding for bigger 'No Littering' signs or something.
.
These are the important jobs important people and their important foundations spend eight cents of every dollar they raise to do. Because they care.

[Pl?ya Manhattan.]

TRUE DETECTIVE FINALE tonight.

I hope they sorted this shit out.

NO MOTHERFUCKING SPOILERS

[Notorious G.K.C.]

Sherlock Holmes sleeps with Hercule Poirot's wife while Miss Marple asks the Hardy Boys what they think of cougars.

[Notorious G.K.C.]

Heh, heh...erase that last part from your minds *if you can.*

[lap83]

The most offensive part of that is the comparison of the Hardy Boys with the other three.

[Corning]

I am just glad they killed the closeted gay cop Iraq war vet who married some woman he got pregnant cuz he hated himself for his shit mom.

A fat Hollywood unicorn that beautiful needed that end.

They could have Starbuck come back as an angel of god and then they all decide to live as primates in the Finale for all I care as I am already satisfied.

[Pl?ya Manhattan.]

A lot of people got clipped. It was all very satisfying.

[Rich]

So, I'm over seeing what the Kos kids are up to, and up pops "my first Bible an Afrocentric one".

Checked into Afrocentric Bible interpretation & found this gem:

I mean, come on, people who had to face just the Animal life in Africa, and all the wise things God shows us by animals, have had to have learned Much wisdom about The Spirit, in whom we live, and move, and have our being.The Sahara used to be a lush land with many, many animals. ... God originaly [sic] meant us to be out there Naturally, tending His original creation, being entertained by His animals. Not making inventions harmful to the natural world.

It truly is a wonderful world.

[Corning]

Antarctica used to be a lush land...

A Cthulhu bible would be cool....then I remember it has already been written:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Night_Land

[JeremyR]

And here in St. Louis, "protesters" have just looted the hair supply store.

While the police do nothing.

It's great that property rights have no meaning in this country anymore.

[JeremyR]

And now after just standing and nothing nothing while the crowd works themselves up, someone (not a cop) opens fire.

[PapayaSF]

Cripes, again? Well, the left really has its blood up these days. I wonder if it'll have the same effect as it did for the 1968 election.

I guess they have too much invested in their fantasy of Michael Brown to admit the truth about him.

[Notorious G.K.C.]

From the Paper of Record:

"FERGUSON, Mo. ? A day of peaceful protest commemorating the killing of Michael Brown, an unarmed black 18-year-old, by a white police officer one year ago ended in gunfire late Sunday as multiple shots rang out on West Florissant Avenue, the commercial district hit by rioting last summer.

A St. Louis County police officer was involved in the shooting...

"About 100 people who had been milling about in the street scattered, seeking cover behind cars. Police officers sought protection behind their riot shields and drew their weapons. The streets cleared as an eerie silence took hold, the only sound coming from a helicopter overhead. There was no immediate word from the police on injuries....

""They didn't give us no justice, so they ain't going to get no peace," Bud Cuzz, the leader of an activist group, Lost Voices, told the crowd on Canfield Drive to boisterous cheers."

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/08.....rsary.html

(look at the New York Timesianisms - "unarmed black 18-year-old" - "A St. Louis County police officer was involved in the shooting")

[Notorious G.K.C.]

Notice the rest of the "involved in the shooting" para:

"A St. Louis County police officer was involved in the shooting, which occurred at about 11:15 p.m., after coming under heavy gunfire, the department said in a post on Twitter. Another department post said, "At least 2 unmarked cars took shots.""

[Notorious G.K.C.]

"unarmed black 18-year-old"

...who, according to several witnesses, tried to arm himself by taking the cop's gun.

#TheseSortsofMinorDetailsMatter

[Notorious G.K.C.]

Reuters version of the recent contretemps:

"The scene changed dramatically after dark with a crowd of dozens of protesters blocking traffic and smashing store windows along West Florissant Avenue, which bore the brunt of last summer's rioting, chanting "Shut it down."

"Shots rang out and additional police clad in riot gear roared into the area in heavily armored vehicles, the witness [who talked to Reuters] said.

"A body could be seen on West Florissant Avenue and a young woman screamed that her brother had been shot. Multiple store windows had been smashed out and police stood atop vehicles surveying the scene."

"

[Notorious G.K.C.]

http://www.reuters.com/article.....HI20150810

[Notorious G.K.C.]

Dear lord, I was looking into the recent disruption of the Bernie Sanders event, and I saw this commentary...

There aren't enough trigger warnings and NSFW alerts in the world to sufficiently warn you about this guy...he makes Chris Rock look like Mr. Rogers.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LU5ZP3fsxtk

[*GILMORE*]

What's a BT-1000?

[PapayaSF]

"Black Terminatrix 1000. It's a play on the model from the Terminator. Talk show host and YouTube celebrity Tommy Sotomayor coined the term. He uses it to refer to specific women (hoodrats as he refers to them) which are according to him, destroying the Black community. He frequently refers to the DSE (which stands for Dark Skinned Edition) and LSE (light skinned edition)."

[BigT]

Don't the candidates get any security ieSecret Service? If not, Sanders is an idiot for not having his own - maybe the American Communist Party would help.

[*GILMORE*]

Charles Blow on "how shit happens"

".Many local municipalities experience budgetary pressure. Rather than raise taxes or cut services in response, things that are often politically unpalatable, they turn to law enforcement and courts to make up the difference in tickets and fines. Some can also increase the number of finable offenses and stiffen the penalties...

...Without fail, something eventually goes horribly wrong.

We look at the end interaction, examining the officers for bias and the suspect for threatening behavior, rather than looking at the systems that necessitated the interactions.

Society itself is to blame."

Fuck you cut spending you statist scumbag

He jumps from the obvious libertarian observation, to...." Because racism", not because the state shouldn't have that power to bleed people in the first place.

[Pl?ya Manhattan.]

He's just now figuring some of this out, and he still comes to the wrong conclusion.

Where's my fainting couch?