Obama on Cosby: Using Drugs on People to Get Sex Without Consent is Rape

He doesn't like commenting on specific cases with possible criminal and civil issues though, he says

off the cuff 2009 like

President Obama's afternoon press conference on the Iran nuclear deal took a lengthy detour with questions about criminal justice reform, the president's upcoming trip to Kenya, and even whether he's considered revoking Bill Cosby's presidential medal of freedom.

On that last point, Obama said there was "no precedent for revoking a medal." As for the specifics of the Cosby case—he is accused of raping more than a dozen women over the last several decades, and last week court documents were released where Cosby admitted to purchasing quaaludes to use on women in order to have sex with them.

Before noting that he's made it "a policy not to comment on the specifics of cases" that could still have criminal or civil issues attached to them, he said: "if you give a woman, or a man for that matter, without his or her knowledge, a drug, and then have sex with that person without consent, that's rape. And I think this country, any civilized country, should have no tolerance for rape."

Comments

[DJF]

How about using drugs on people to get sex with consent?

[Zeb]

That's the normal human mating ritual, isn't it? I think that's why bars exist.

[Pro Libertate]

I guess there's a line somewhere--I mean, among rational people--between "getting loosened up," which many people do to themselves on purpose--and drugging someone to skip the whole consensual sex part.

[Almanian - TRUMP THIS]

Wow - RAPE CULTURE much??

[DesigNate]

Well duh! I mean, we're all steeped in it since birth. Not to mention we're libertarians, so obviously male and therefore members of the patriarchy.

[Pro Libertate]

I know you're kidding, but what's fucked up about it is that women are fully 100% into getting drunk enough to lower their inhibitions. That's largely the point of drinking for young-uns. There's a clear difference between that and being unable to give consent, and there's a wide gulf between dumb consent and no consent.

Incidentally, being drunk, unless you're practically unconscious, doesn't rob most people of the ability to make decisions. Even at my most stupid drunk, there were things I wouldn't do.

[B.P.]

"Even at my most stupid drunk, there were things I wouldn't do."

Deep dish?

[Pro Libertate]

No, that I'd eat sober. But I've always had lines I wouldn't cross. Frankly, I think many people use alcohol as an excuse for bad behavior. They actually want to do what they do, in other words.

[DesigNate]

"I think many people use alcohol as an excuse for bad behavior."

Hasn't that been pretty much proven, like with clinical studies and what not?

[Pro Libertate]

Probably, but do any of us really need that to know this is true? I recall vividly some girls I was friends with in college who would start acting drunk long before they possibly could've been. They clearly just wanted the excuse of drunkenness to do things they wouldn't normally do. And, of course, alcohol does lower some inhibitions.

[Citizen X]

Even at my most stupid drunk, there were things I wouldn't do.

Explain why you kept getting circumcised, then.

[Pro Libertate]

You're confusing me with Episiarch. According to him, circumcision became an addiction, one that he couldn't stop. True fact: He had so many that his penis is transparent. It was on That's Incredible back in the 80s.

[Citizen X]

Oh right, i remember now. He peeled his thing like it was an apple. That episode put me off hot dogs for like six years.

[Pro Libertate]

I've never escaped the penumbra of nausea.

[bassjoe]

I don't think any rational person can fail to see that line. A drunk woman can still be raped. However, merely having sex which you drunkenly thought was a good idea but regret the next morning is not rape. If you willfully put booze into your mouth, you have to accept the consequences of your poor decision-making when drunk, sorry.

But the (anti) RAPE CULTURE warriors don't really see a difference. But nobody claims they're rational.

[Zeb]

Well, yeah. The consent part is still essential. But I do believe it is possible to consent while intoxicated, if not while incapacitated. I guess that's the line I'd draw. If you are the sort of person who does things you regret when drunk, don't get drunk with people you don't know or trust to watch out for you.

[Pro Libertate]

Being drunk, for instance, does not usually get you out of civil or criminal liability unless you're just about unconscious. So the law certainly doesn't buy the "unable to make decision" argument.

[Zeb]

Yes. If you are liable for your decision to drive when drunk, you should damn well be responsible if you decide to fuck while drunk. And as you say above, women (and men) drink with the intention of lowering their inhibitions and casually hooking up sexually all the time. it seems to me that women should be horribly offended at the "you can't consent when drunk" bullshit.

[Pro Libertate]

It's more of treating a protected class like idiots. Why that doesn't get screams all by itself is another matter altogether.

[JW]

Has "intoxicated" even been defined yet? Yeah, sure I get it, it's whatever the twats on the Kangaroo Court want it to be. But, one drink? BAC level above 0.8?

At what point does tipsy turn into drunk?

BTW, in MD, you can't sign a contract when visibly intoxicated. it won't be enforced.

[Pro Libertate]

Are you sure it's that cut and dried? I mean "visibly intoxicated" is a long way from "unable to make decisions."

[JW]

It's what I recall from my contracts class, many thousands of years ago, No idea what the actual standard is.

[Pro Libertate]

In merchant-consumer agreements, there are added protections under consumer protection laws, based on the theory that there's uneven negotiating power. So in those cases, I could see something like that applying. But there's always a possible defense about lacking competence to understand/execute that your counterpart is aware of (or created).

[Notorious G.K.C.]

So how does the Internet come into this? How do you know how drunk a guy was when he ordered the anatomically accurate teddy bear off of Amazon* at 2 AM?

*Purely a hypothetical example - I couldn't actually find this product on Amazon.

[Pro Libertate]

It's not a defense by itself. The other party has to know about it, I think. At least in contracts between similarly situated people. There are some over-the-top consumer protection laws that let consumers off the hook if they're having a bad day.

[Sudden]

How about using sex to get drugs? Because I find that a far more common occurrence.

[lap83]

That's called empowerment, or exploitation. Same thing really.

[Sudden]

I should also piggyback on this that I have not seen the actual text of the statements made by Bill Cosby because I don't really care about the criminal proceedings of the man. But the candor with which he admitted to obtaining drugs for the purpose of giving them to women he wanted to have sex with might even suggest that his purpose in obtaining the drugs wasn't to get the women unconscious or otherwise incapable of rendering consent for the sex act but may have indeed been a quid pro quo of "if you get me some ludes, I'll fuck you."

I can't pretend I've never seen such behaviour by women in the context of cocaine.

[Anomalous]

'Lude behavior.

[JW]

Never took Ludes myself, but a buddy of mine did, back int the early 80's. Said he could bang for hours on ludes.

YMMV.

[perlchpr]

Exact quote below, and much the same point made about Ecstacy.

[perlchpr]

Well, and what exactly is it that Cosby said?

"When you got the Quaaludes, was it in your mind that you were going to use these Quaaludes for young women that you wanted to have sex with?" Cosby was asked in the 2005 deposition.

"Yes," he replied.

That doesn't necessarily say to me that his intent was to use the quaaludes to give to women who would not have otherwise had sex with him.

I mean, shit. "When you got the MDMA, was it in your mind that you were going to use this MDMA for young women that you wanted to have sex with?" That's not an admission of rape, that's just a plan for a party. :-/

[Zeb]

" if you give a woman, or a man for that matter, without his or her knowledge, a drug, and then have sex with that person without consent, that's rape.

I think that the sex without consent part is really sufficient.

[Certified Public Asshat]

If you give a mouse a cookie, and then have sex with that mouse without consent, that's rape.

[Certified Public Asshat]

...and then he'll want a glass of milk.

[darkflame]

I thought it was bestiality...

[Certified Public Asshat]

Let me be clear, that too.

[darkflame]

The milk is really milk though, right? Right?!

[Zeb]

It is really hard to get unambiguous consent from an animal. As much as they may seem to enjoy it, you can't really be sure of consent.
Of course, by human standards, all animal sex looks pretty rapey.

[Pro Libertate]

I know the Coz is probably guilty of something bad, what with all of the women coming out against him, but I have to say I'm having a hard time accepting this one. I've always liked his public persona, even as a kid ("Hey, hey, hey!"), and now he's this pariah. I'm clearly in a denial phase.

[Cyto]

He was always a huge hero of mine. His lessons in both cartoon form and later in sit-com form are wonderful things to aspire to.

Then came Twana Brawley. Unless you were absolutely blinded by race, the fraudulent nature of the claims reported by Sharpton were obvious within a few days. Then Cosby came out with a $25k reward for information leading to the arrest of the police officers supposedly involved. I was stunned and heartbroken that the man I had looked up to as such a genius and a role model for treating all people with love and respect could fall for such an obvious race-baiting hoax.

I had mostly gotten past that incident (although the youthful hero-worship had died) when the out of wedlock kid showed up. Wow, what a departure from everything he stood for.

And now this. I suppose it shouldn't diminish the work he did in the past - the art should stand on it's own. But for some reason it does diminish it for me.

[Osama bin Pimpin]

Wait. Cosby admitted giving ludes to chicks. His lawyer instructed him not to answer when asked if he gave them to these chicks without their knowledge. The latter question is the only one that matters. Did Cosby plead the 5th? If so, you could infer guilt from that (in the court of public opinion, not real court).

[bassjoe]

I think his lawyer only instructed him not to answer and there was no attempt to compel him to; I don't think he pleaded the 5th at any point. Not answering that question, while it does not necessarily look good, could mean many things. The court of public opinion inferred guilt simply because he admitted giving drugs to women (which is not any sort of crime... nor all that unusual).

[DesigNate]

Because if the woman is in any way intoxicated, it's automatically rape. QED

[bassjoe]

I have actually heard this come out of women's mouths: "all of those times I had drunk sex, it was actually!"

Look, if you don't want to take responsibility for your poor drunken decisions, fine (everybody does it). Don't infer the person you willingly fucked when drunk is a criminal, however.

[Pro Libertate]

But aren't the guys drunk in those cases, too? So who is raping whom?

[Antilles]

Men are held to a higher standard then women. WE should know better, no matter how much we drink.

[Pro Libertate]

But. . .isn't that sexist?

Honestly, how do they keep up with these identity politics fads?

[Antilles]

It's not sexist if it disproportionately harms men.

As for Identity Politics, the rule is: Women are good and men are bad but straight, white men are the worst.

Learn that as it will likely be that way for the rest of our lives.

[Tony]

Half of white Americans think that white people are the biggest victims of racism. Perhaps they could make the tiniest microscopic amount of effort. Nothing is quite so pathetic as white straight men whining about other people's grievance politics.

[Real American]

but how can women be equal if they're treated the same as men?

[Rebel Scum]

Yes means yes.

[Brochettaward]

What if I ask her whether she does not not want to have sex?

[Almanian - TRUMP THIS]

ur doin it wrong!

[Rebel Scum]

Too many negatives.

[Brochettaward]

Doesn't not not want to have sex?

[Osama bin Pimpin]

I don't disagree.

[Brochettaward]

Before noting that he's made it "a policy not to comment on the specifics of cases" that could still have criminal or civil issues attached to them, he said:

Hm...He's not very good at following his own policy, it seems.

[Irish ?s ESB]

"a policy not to comment on the specifics of cases"

Wha...does he just not remember Trayvon Martin or Michael Brown?

"if you give a woman, or a man for that matter, without his or her knowledge, a drug, and then have sex with that person without consent, that's rape. And I think this country, any civilized country, should have no tolerance for rape"

Obama went on to say: "This stands in stark opposition to my stance on the Middle East, where I gleefully supported the Egyptian Arab Spring (although I guess that should be 'Egyptian Spring') even as rampaging gangs of 'protesters' gang raped American reporters for half an hour.

I don't like to talk about that."

[mad.casual]

Wha...does he just not remember Trayvon Martin or Michael Brown?

Thoroughly blacked out on the Beer Summit as well.

[Real American]

this policy is applied to any story that makes him and his side look bad, like murders of innocents by illegals in sanctuary cities.

[MJGreen - Docile Citizen]

OK then.

[John]

What do I care about less, the Bill Cosby story or Obama's opinion about that story. Tough choice.

[sarcasmic]

I think the Bill story matters only because he appears to have been in his private life the opposite of what he projected for so many decades. Sucks, because I think the good messages that he made will now be ignored because he appears to have been a bad person. Ad hominems are convincing arguments for most people.

[Zeb]

That's the worst bit. If he did rape people, then fuck him. His comedy and other work still is what it is and unfortunately people will dismiss it because of his personal failings.

I actually know someone who worked for Cosby as a nanny in the 70s. And everything I've heard from her says that he wasn't so different from his public persona in person. So if he really was such a creep, which seems somewhat likely at this point, he concealed it well in his private life too.

[Almanian - TRUMP THIS]

But where does Donald Trump come down on the Bill Cosby situation?

[Lee G]

Well if it weren't for the Mexicans, Bill couldn't have gotten his hands on those ludes.

[Almanian - TRUMP THIS]

Sonavabitch MUST PAY!

[mad.casual]

Yup.

Mr. President! Since we're discussing fucking the American people, what's your opinion of Bill Cosby?

This sooooo seemed like one of those times not to drift off topic or run out of relevant stuff to talk about.

[mr burns]

I hosted a dinner party where the main dish was a curry, containing large amounts of circumin , a ayurvedic medicine, hence a drug. I did not specifically inform my guests of the presence of circumin in the curry because it is a primary component of curry powder. Afterwards I had what I had assumed was consensual sex with one of the guests. Imagine my dismay to discover that in our presidents estimation I committed rape. I am contacting my attorney and putting my affairs in order before surrendering to the proper authorities.

[MJGreen - Docile Citizen]

It's OK to agree with Obama about something. It doesn't make you a traitor or a Democrat or anything.

[Warty]

OBAMA NO LIKE RAPE
ME NO LIKE OBAMA
THEN RAPE BE GUD

[Irish ?s ESB]

"It's OK to agree with Obama about something. It doesn't make you a traitor or a Democrat or anything."

The issue is that there's no evidence Cosby drugged these women without consent so they're claiming Cosby said something he did not say.

[MJGreen - Docile Citizen]

Hence the "if."

[ant1sthenes]

No, he said you have to give someone a drug, and then have non-consensual sex for it to be rape. Which is true, though the drug bit is superfluous.

[bassjoe]

"if you give a woman, or a man for that matter, without his or her knowledge, a drug, and then have sex with that person without consent, that's rape."

Well, yeah. That's a no-brainer.

Except that is not what Cosby admitted to. He admitted to purchasing the drugs, giving the drugs to women, and then having sex with the women. Which, if done without consent, is rape (duh). However, if done with consent, it's not.

But let's all go back on the hate-Cosby train. I hear they're serving complementary Jell-O at the concession stand.

[DesigNate]

I got a pudding pop.

[BearOdinson]

"Do people laugh when you say the things you do?"
"Do you get paid?"
"Then tell Bill to have a Coke and smile and shut the fuck up!"

[Anomalous]

+1 Raw

[Rebel Scum]

He had to drug them because they didn't want his jello pudding pop.

[Almanian - TRUMP THIS]

Frazzle snazzle bedazzle gazzle!

/SNL Bill Cosby

[Suthenboy]

There would not be much controversy over this if the proggies hadn't made a point of going after Cosby because of his advocacy for personal responsibility. Now it just looks suspicious. Of course if he were a good proggie himself he would be off the hook.

[sarcasmic]

Very true. And now they will criticize and/or ignore his messages of personal responsibility on the grounds that he was a bad person.

"See? Cosby was wrong because he's a bad person! You're not responsible for your actions! You're really victims just like we said all along!"

[Tony]

Maybe he shouldn't have raped dozens of women.

[Almanian - TRUMP THIS]

NEEDZ MOAR MILLENIAL POLLING

[Lee G]

But was it rape-rape?

[Knarf Yenrab!]

While we're asking BHO difficult questions, what does he think about the Coz killing a 16-year-old American boy via a drone strike?

[Citizen X]

While we're asking BHO ToughQuestions, what does he think about the Coz killing a 16-year-old American boy via a DroneStrike?

Fixed it for ya.

/DONDEROOOOOO

[lap83]

It just occurred to me why I hate these celebrity scandals. They're indistinguishable from office rumors with the media playing the part of the gossiping old hen, but for some reason when the media is spreading the BS around it's considered credible. Personally, I don't see the difference and I just want to ignore it because there are gaping holes of information and I wasn't there.

[lap83]

and btw, Obama chiming in about it would be the workplace equivalent of a CEO sending out a memo about whether he thinks Cindy from accounting is a gold-digging slut. Nobody would want to work at a place like that.

[Citizen X]

he's made it "a policy not to comment on the specifics of cases" that could still have criminal or civil issues attached to them

When did he do that? Like a minute and a half before the question was asked?

[perlchpr]

After. A minute and a half after he'd finished answering the question.

[PH2050]

Getting high and having sex, even if your partner requested the drugs = Predator

Be the leader of the free world and bang your subordinates in the Oval Office = Not A Predator

[sarcasmic]

Not quite right. If Cosby had never advocated for blacks picking themselves up by the bootstraps and instead supported the victim-of-society narrative, I think this would have blown over. Just as the media would go crazy over a Republican president banging subordinates in the Oval Office.

Leftist Lady Justice wears no blindfold. She judges not based upon what the person did, but on who the person is.

[Pro Libertate]

Well, maybe. If it was just one woman accusing him, I'd be highly dubious. I am very doubtful of Anita Hill's claims, for instance, especially since they appeared to occur in a vacuum. Guys like she describes usually behave that way more than once.

As it is, it's hard not to think there's some fire here, though I don't dismiss the political biases at work with some of his attackers. Still, that doesn't mean he's innocent--they'd jump all over him either way.

[Tony]

So it's Cosby's wife, Whoopi until today, and sarcasmic. I'm sure Cosby appreciates the support.

[mad.casual]

Be the leader of the free world and bang your subordinates in the Oval Office = Not A Predator

Nonsense! I'm sure Bill never plied women with the marijuana he wasn't inhaling. I'm sure Barry O. never did the same with weed or blow that he was using.

[GILMORE, Haiku Pornographer]

"He doesn't like commenting on specific cases with possible criminal and civil issues though, he says"

lol

Stay classy, 'bama

[MJGreen - Docile Citizen]

We all have to do things we don't like.

[GILMORE, Haiku Pornographer]

Obama = "Normally I'd say this is an issue that has nothing to do with the office of the president; however, it is trending on Twitter, therefore I am compelled to offer my opinion. #CosbyRapesMatter"

[GILMORE, Haiku Pornographer]

""He doesn't like commenting on specific cases with possible criminal and civil issues though, he says""

Except for the times when he does, and ends up prejudicing prosecutions all over the country

because its not like, a big deal or anything when the Commander in Chief demands the highest possible penalty as the bare-minimum requirement for a given charge.

" Mr Obama's use of the phrase "dishonourable discharge" ? the severest discharge available ? added to the risk of what military lawyers call "unlawful command influence", a key plank of military law designed to stop commanders directing or influencing the outcomes of courts martial.

The paper cited a raft of cases in North and South Carolina, Hawaii, and Texas that had already been influenced by the president's words. In one case a juror was dismissed, while in another a judge ruled out "dishonorable discharge", citing the president's remark"

[Citizen X]

If you take the commas out of the list of tags at the bottom of the article, it reads like a STEVE SMITH quote: BARACK OBAMA RAPE POPULAR CULTURE

[Marshal]

Cosby admitted to purchasing quaaludes to use on women in order to have sex with them.

I notice the quote is not actually presented here or at the linked site (or anywhere else I've found). Frankly I don't believe how Cosby's statement is being portrayed. It's incomprehensible he would admit to rape in a court proceeding.

I strongly suspect his admission was to buying the drugs to use with women who agreed to both use them and have sex. Can we clarify this? Otherwise Reason is complicit in hysteria mongering.

[josh]

"Q. When you got the Quaaludes, was it in your mind that you were going to use these Quaaludes for young women that you wanted to have sex with?

A. Yes.

Q. Did you ever give any of those young women the Quaaludes without their knowledge?"

after the second question, cosby's lawyer objected obviously....

[Mendelism]

I'll just leave this hier.

[josh]

i made the mistake of trying to discuss bill cosby and rape generally on 'salon'. it didn't go well. i still have nightmares.