**Updated: Suspected Charleston Shooter Dylann Roof Arrested, Manhunt Over

Evidence mounts for hate crime designation

**Update: It's confirmed. Roof was arrested in Shelby, North Carolina.

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*Update: WBTV News claims Roof was apprehended by police. (Original story is below.)

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Authorities have identified a 21-year-old Columbia, South Carolina, native as the perpetrator of the horrific attack on the Emanuel AME Church in Charleston last night that left 9 people dead.

The suspect, Dylann Roof, was caught on security camera footage outside the church. He was previously arrested for trespassing on April 26. WISTV.com claims that he was also previously arrested for drug-related charges. He is still at large.

Roof attended White Knoll High School, according to his Facebook page. His profile picture depicts him wearing two patches on his jacket. Twitter users have identified these patches as symbols from apartheid-era South Africa and Rhodesia, an unrecognized nation that rebelled against black majority rule.

Emanuel AME is a historically black church. Roof opened fire during a Bible study meeting around 9 p.m. on Wednesday after sitting and waiting for an hour. He told one woman he was sparing her so that she could "spread the word." According to NBC News:

Sylvia Johnson, a cousin of church shooting victim Pastor Clementa Pinckney says she spoke with one of the survivors "and she said that he had reloaded five different times… and he just said 'I have to do it. You rape our women and you're taking over our country. And you have to go.'"

Rev. Clementa C. Pinckney—a civil rights activist and state senator—was killed during the shooting, along with two other men and six women.

The attack is considered a hate crime.

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Comments

[commodious spittoon]

This wasn't a hate crime. This was an overabundance of passion.

Over/under on the freak killing himself during the inevitable standoff?

[tarran]

My guess is he won't.

He went to that church intending to murder the people within. HE spent an hour with them before doing it. It might be that he was savoring the moment. Or it might be that he was nerving himself up to shoot them.

My guess is that he won't kill himself, but will surrender and become a cause celebre for the stormfront crowd.

[JFree]

Life ain't easy for a boy named Ann

[Irish Says Enough Woodchippers]

"This wasn't a hate crime. This was an overabundance of passion."

What does this mean? If hate crime has any meaning, I think the guy who shot a bunch of black people because he didn't want them in "his" country certainly qualifies.

[commodious spittoon]

I'm being glib. Of course it's hateful. And awful.

[proseshooter]

Any deliberate killing including manslaughter is a hate crime. What kind of firearm was used in that he reloaded five times, yet no one seized the opportunity to jump him while we was reloading.

[MonsoonMoon]

That's not how that works, and precisely the reason why mag cap bans are useless.

Even the most novice shooter doesn't take very long to reload.

A better question is, why wasn't anyone in the church armed to defend themselves?

[AD-RtR/OS!]

The Church, naturally, is a Gun Free Zone.

[Vapourwear]

They misunderstand the sheep metaphor?

[MonsoonMoon]

That's not how that works, and precisely the reason why mag cap bans are useless.

Even the most novice shooter doesn't take very long to reload.

A better question is, why wasn't anyone in the church armed to defend themselves?

[Didyoumeanthat]

Hope he doesn't. Me and my pygmy pony dragging a wood chipper down that way...

[Pl?ya Manhattan.]

I'm making an early call here:

1) Aspy
2) Low IQ
2) Rejected by a cute girl
3) More black friends than white

[Juvenile Bluster]

No, that was Elliot Rodger. Given the pic of the jacket and some other pics I've seen around the web, this guy's pretty obviously racist.*

* SLD: His motivation in the crime should not play any part in the trial or sentencing. He should be sentenced like any other mass murderer should be (er, any non-officer mass murderer, that is).

[tarran]

I think motivation should play a role in mass murder.

Here's a hypothetical... a man discovers that his daughter was raped at her preschool by the several members of the staff. However, the DA prosecutes incompetently,and they get off. The dad goes in and massacres the staff members he believes are responsible.

Second hypothetical... a man discovers that his daughter has been dating someone he hates who works at the preschool she teaches at, and that their coworkers are covering for her. In a rage, he goes down to her school and massacres the coworkers and the boyfriend.

Same act, *very* different motivations. Would you punish both equally?

[Scoop33]

Third hypothetical. Both acts occur by different fathers at the same time. Your mother is killed by the father who gets the lesser sentence. How does that make you feel?

[Rich]

Excellent.

[tarran]

I honestly wouldn't care. I've learned to divorce my emotions from nutty court judgments.

Moreover, appealing to my feelings isn't an argument, is it? I feel bad when a guy gets his head sawed off in Syria. Should that trump a discussion about the pro's and cons of the U.S. army invading to restore order?

[Scoop33]

My point. Your hypotheticals involve the same crime with two different motivations which undoubtedly were based on a fathers feelings about his daughter. Why should one get punished less severely than the other?

[SimonJester]

I suppose that depends on weather or not your mother was the one dating the hypothetical daughter.

[Bobarian (Would Chip Her)]

I'm all for different punishments based on motivations, but the discussion is 'hate crime', meaning charging a murderer with a different or extra crime.

That is bullshit.

All murder is hate motivated. Mans laughter is what we normally charge people with when it ain't.

[tarran]

I agree that the hate crime modifier is stupid and a distraction from the actual crime at hand.

Take that cop who shot his wife yesterday. He clearly hated his wife, and yet that is not legally defined as a hate crime. The legislation describing hate crimes essentially politically picks a subset of criminal acts against persons or property and based on certain properties of the perpetrator and the victims decrees them especially bad. It's one thing to take racial animus into consideration when sentencing, it's another to elevate crimes committed out of racial animus as being more heinous than identical crimes committed for other reasons.

[JFree]

The 'hate crime' modifier is legally justification for the federal government to step in (under the 14th Amendment protection of ITS citizens) and oversee the criminal proceedings to make sure that those proceedings are based on actual evidence (due process) rather than community bias against some group.

that's it. It really isn't silly. It is a direct successor of the old 'violation of civil rights' charge that was used to put pressure on fixing the old criminal culture of the south where there was no such thing as a fair trial or due process when the charge crossed racial lines.

[A special place in JW's Hell]

Motivation is irrelevant for sentencing, but not for determining guilt. That goes to intent.

At least, in a sane world, that's how it would be.

[Monty Crisco]

I don't charge anyone with laughter. I pay for laughter!

[lap83]

"Would you punish both equally?"

I would have sympathy for the man whose daughter was raped and the culprits were set free up until the point where he massacres the people he thinks are responsible. Sympathy doesn't mean you get a free pass to be a psycho.

[lap83]

"Would you punish both equally?"

I would have sympathy for the man whose daughter was raped and the culprits were set free up until the point where he massacres the people he thinks are responsible. Sympathy doesn't mean you get a free pass to be a psycho.

[lap83]

If he killed some squirrels I might look the other way, however.

[C. S. P. Schofield]

I think motivation should play a role in a trial only when determining if the criminal believed his actions were justified under the law. Saying it hold have a role in a mass murder trial is absurd, absent what I would have to think would be rather peculiar circumstances. If he's guilty, he needs to be locked up or otherwise despised of. That is true whether he killed three or thirty.

[Pro Libertate]

Intent matters and is an element of first-ever murder. Various defenses/justifications matter. What doesn't matter is why you kill, beyond the intent to unjustifiably kill.

Hate crime is political B.S. Is a racist murder worse than a murder for hire?

[proseshooter]

Both would be guilty of premeditated murder. Due to political correctness he probably would receive life imprisonment at the very least. However, if a Muslim, including Black Muslims, were to murder a church full of white people, it would be because of white suppression 150 years ago, and he would be freed. Viva la revolucion

[Tionico]

Yep. Murder is murder and the biblically prescribed punishment for that crime is death. "Whoever by his hand spills the blood of innocents, by the hand of man shall his blood be spilled". Motive? Immaterial. Any deliberate killing must be punished by death after a fair trial.

[mpercy]

Did either man use a woodchipper as the murder weapon?

[ace_m82]

So, shot publicly. Good. What the jerk deserves.

[Zeb]

Doesn't the whole mens rea thing require some consideration of the motivations for committing crimes?

[proseshooter]

Only if it is a Democrat slaughtering Republicans, but not vise-versa.

[Tionico]

yes, it does, but that pertains only to the establishment of guilt/inocense of the killer. Proving "hate" does not make it an extra special crime except in the eyes of the feel-good crowd who want to crow and strut every time they can attach the word" racism" to any specific act.

[Grand Moff Serious Man]

I'll speculate along those lines further and say that the cute white girl that rejected him ended up with a black man.

So social retard with undiagnosed mental illness discovers white supremacist literature and snaps.

[PBR Streetgang]

^^This, except the girl need not be 'cute'.

[Pl?ya Manhattan.]

"cute"

[MJGreen - Docile Citizen]

Well, redneck cute.

[RBS]

So, trashy hot.

[tarran]

So young, waifish, bad teeth?

[ant1sthenes]

But with two first names instead of some sort of vaguely vampiric moniker.

[Irish Says Enough Woodchippers]

So is Elizabeth Stoker Breunig now officially H&Rs; mascot or does there need to be some kind of induction ceremony?

[Pl?ya Manhattan.]

If she tweets us again, it's on.

[MJGreen - Docile Citizen]

A redneck ESB would probably have more useful knowledge. She'd at least be more interesting to read.

[JFree]

10 year old first cousin?

[Didyoumeanthat]

Heidi Klum kind of cute?

[The DerpRider]

Yeah, his friends list on FB is more than one quarter black. My guess is his ex was/is dating a black guy.

[Brian]

Well, he said they're raping our women.

What are the odds we'll find some underlying rape accusation involved?

When we get down to it, they all just might be victims of RAPE CULTURE!

[John Titor]

Yeah, when the guy's using Boer nationalist symbols there's a pretty good chance he's legitimately racist.

Now watch as we spend the next a month obsessing over it. Which will never cause copycats from other pathetic attention craved pieces of shit. 'Spread the word'. Yeah, don't worry buddy, the media will do that for you soon enough.

[WTF]

And in spreading the word, the media will no doubt link him to the Tea Party and conservatives in general.

[SimonJester]

And, since he wore a patch with a green flag, and the Koch brothers, et. al., have also reportedly been seen wearing green, they are also racist, and probably to blame for this crime.

[SimonJester]

And, since he wore a patch with a green flag, and the Koch brothers, et. al., have also reportedly been seen wearing green, they are also racist, and probably to blame for this crime.

[Carolynp]

I'm calling bs in advance. "You're raping our women"? Sorry, not buying it.

[JeSuisRaison, moulin ? bois]

I'm making an early call here:

1) Aspy
2) Low IQ
2) Rejected by a cute girl
3) More black friends than whiteFalse flag

FIFY

[Warty]

Seriously? Fuck off back to Free Republic.

[MJGreen - Docile Citizen]

What a trooper. This guy's throwing his life away for a "false flag."

[jesse.in.mb]

That's just silly. He was mind controlled using rays from HAARP by Reptilians who wanted to make white people look bad so that they could more easily invade in the social turmoil.

This is why it's important to always wear full body Faraday armor.

[Warty]

FALSE FLAG MUSLIM OBAMA BILDERBERG NEWTOWN FIRE CAN'T MELT STEEL JOOOOOOOOOS

These fucking moron conspiracy fucks are fucking embarrassing.

[MonsoonMoon]

That's a lot of mass conglomerating of conspiracies, which if it weren't so ignorant, it'd be kind of impressive.

[Brian]

It's always a false flag.

[John]

That is my guess too. He apparently said "you are raping our women" while doing the shooting.

[tarran]

When I was researching my rebuttal to David Duke, I spent a lot of time lurking on stormfront.

Those guys were really, really fixated on black men raping women. I recall seeing that fear/concern repeated on practically every thread I waded through.

[John]

What do you want to bet half or more of them have cuckold fetishes about their wives and black men?

[jesse.in.mb]

I think half is a serious underestimation. I'd say 80%+. There are probably some people in there who are really upset about it and haven't managed to fetishize it, but probably not a ton.

[EDG chippin' WUD]

Yes.

[mpercy]

Explains why there seems to be a large genre of porn with that theme...

[jesse.in.mb]

Those people keep porn studios that specialize in interracial cuckolding porn afloat.

[Warty]

The racial politics of Dogfart must have spawned hundreds of PhD theses.

[Warty]

Isn't that one of the main ways tribal hatreds manifest themselves? Like, Der Stuermer was all about Jews raping German women, and Muslims and Hindus in India like to lynch each other over rape rumors, I believe.

[ant1sthenes]

"and Muslims and Hindus in India like to lynch each other over rape rumors"

is that before or after they get done stoning the alleged victims?

[Iamtheeviltwin]

Don't forget the tribal witch hunts by women against men on college campuses...

[In League with the Dark Ones]

Those guys were really, really fixated on black men raping women.

That was a historical concern. Up to 19.2% of of lynchings were done on grounds that the lynched had raped a white woman:

Under Jim Crow any and all sexual interactions between black men and white women was illegal, illicit, socially repugnant, and within the Jim Crow definition of rape. Although only 19.2 percent of the lynching victims between 1882 to 1951 were even accused of rape, lynch law was often supported on the popular belief that lynchings were necessary to protect white women from black rapists.

[proseshooter]

It was also used to prevent theft of livestock. Back then there was a lot of race related stampeding of women and raping of cattle. Viva la revolucion.

[Warty]

4) Severely overestimated his own intelligence

[John Galt]

5) Recent drug and trespassing arrests
6) Soup Bowl Haircut

I'm thinking your call is most likely going to be right.

[Juvenile Bluster]

The jacket he's wearing in the pic on the bottom has the flags of Apartheid South Africa and Rhodesia. Not only is he racist, he's old school racist.

[John Titor]

He makes the South Africans in Lethal Weapon 2 look subtle.

[tarran]

Well, when one lacks diplomatic immunity...

[Juvenile Bluster]

it's just been revoked.

[Charles Easterly]

Diplomat don't surf.

[njolsson]

I thought it was Charlie who didn't surf.

[Free ?Woodchippers! Society]

Look at that kid's haircut. I mean if your head look exactly like a dick, wouldn't you shoot up a church?

[Grand Moff Serious Man]

And his middle name is Storm. As in Dylann Storm Roof.

Good one, mom and dad.

[Free ?Woodchippers! Society]

So his head is shaped like a dick because he descends from dicks.

[Irish Says Enough Woodchippers]

I'm going to go out on a limb and say that the white nationalist with a middle name of 'Storm' just might have been raised to be a white nationalist by his parents. It's an awfully big coincidence that a word with a lot of appeal to skinheads happened to be a racist murderer's middle name.

[Marshal]

Agree. It's very likely he turns out to have significant involvement in crazy racist shit.

[Free ?Woodchippers! Society]

Crazy racist shit that despite it's rarity on the bell curve, authors at The Nation, Slate and Salon will argue "white America" must atone for.

[Free ?Woodchippers! Society]

Seeing a link below, I notice that Salon has already written that article. It's funny that I know what socialist weasels will say before they even say it.

[A special place in JW's Hell]

Seeing a link below, I notice that Salon has already written that article. It's funny that I know what socialist weasels will say before they even say it.

Those are just boilerplate articles they already have written and waiting for the event to occur.

Just fill in the blanks for the name and location and viola!

[Marshal]

Authors at the Nation, Slate, and Salon are idiots, as are millions of others with the same views. Point out they've never apologized to you for Colin Ferguson and see if they can catch up.

[l0b0t]

"... a word with a lot of appeal to skinheads ..."

Also, a lot of appeal to black mutants.

http://tinyurl.com/q5ned2b

[Woodchip-o-Matic 5000]

Storm is a girl's name! God, it looks like his parents weren't even familiar with X-Men.

[Rhino]

Maybe a barber shop.

[Drake]

Nope. I refuse to learn his name or anything about him. When he is dead, I'll register that fact and nothing else.

[Otisjay]

If only the media would do this.

[Pro Libertate]

I hate the celebrity handed to murdering nuts. Plaster their picture everywhere, etc. And the politics is sickening.

[Carolynp]

I thought they did that preschool shooting up right by posting bios of the victims only. I can't remember the name of the nutjob, either, even though libs used it to full jihad on guns.

[Ken Shultz]

Terrible tragedy.

Condolences to the victims.

I hope the nail the bastard that did this to the wall.

...after they give him a fair trial, of course.

[commodious spittoon]

I hope he saves South Carolina the trouble.

[Judge Forrest's Clitdong]

Considering the scrawny build and horrible pudding bowl haircut, I'm calling this as an instance of Dork Cookoff.

[Fist of Etiquette]

Drugs. I knew it.

[Rich]

[Dylann Storm] Roof attended White Knoll High School

Kid never had a chance.

Seriously, this is really horrible.

*** waits for investigators to publish his Facebook rants ***

[Irish Says Enough Woodchippers]

Yeah, if this dipshit had South African apartheid flags on his jacket and posted that picture on Facebook, I imagine at some point he had some semi-literate rantings about his hatred of darkies.

[Rich]

"At some point"?

I imagine his shit is crawling with them.

[WTF]

Which of course will provide justification for the investigation and harassment of anyone posting unpopular thoughts.

[Rich]

Of course.

Maybe even Islamists.

[JeSuisRaison, moulin ? bois]

Which of course will provide justification for the investigation and harassment of anyone posting unpopular thoughts.

Preet Bharara is prolly in his fucking bunk right now.

[tarran]

You rape our women and you're taking over our country.

Maybe he thought blazing saddles was a documentary.

[Juvenile Bluster]

Looks like he's been arrested. Taken alive.

[H. Protagonist]

Reloaded 5 times? And my county sheriff tells me "self defense" isn't "good cause" for me or my wife to get a carry permit.

[WTF]

This is why we need to ban high-capacity magazines, oh, wait......

[Free ?Woodchippers! Society]

I didn't think "may issue" jurisdictions were even legal anymore.

[WTF]

It is in New Jersey. I don't know about anyplace else, but the SCOTUS doesn't seem to mind allowing it to stand in conflict with Heller.

[Free ?Woodchippers! Society]

Heller must be one of those rulings that lower courts can voluntarily ignore. By that I mean, one of those rulings that weaken government power, those get ignored with impunity quite often.

[Drake]

NJ, NY, CT, RI, MA - you can buy a pistol after much red tape. You won't ever get a carry permit unless you know the local chief or sheriff.

[l0b0t]

Also, NYC. Here it's extra fun because the may issue is decided upon by the precinct captain in one's particular neighborhood, but only after paying a non-refundable application fee $380 to obtain a permit to own a firearm. If one wants to transport it in a motor vehicle, one needs a separate permit (also requiring a $380 non-refundable application fee).

[Free ?Woodchippers! Society]

"We gun controllers love the second amendment! We don't want guns to be illegal, we only want to criminalize holding them, loading them, using them, transporting them or assembling them. You libertarians always distorting the truth..."

[l0b0t]

The NYC permits are also per firearm, $380 per firearm for a possession permit; this is the primary reason my firearms are all transferred to a couple of FFL holding relatives in Texas. Hell, the application fee is more than double what I paid for my Mossberg 500s.

[H. Protagonist]

California: may issue at the discretion of the sheriff of the county in which you reside, but allows you to carry statewide with the permit. Which means if you live in Modoc county, it's essentially a shall issue state, but if you live in Los Angeles, it's a "crony and keep campaign fundraiser" only state.

[Rich]

Roof ... was given a gun by his father as a 21st birthday present

Oops.

[Je suis Woodchipper]

Somewhere on the spectrum, then armed.

He said he had told his sister, Roof's mother, several years ago that Roof was too introverted.

"I said he was like 19 years old, he still didn't have a job, a driver's license or anything like that and he just stayed in his room a lot of the time," Cowles said.

[Bobarian (Would Chip Her)]

He's the right age for schizophrenic break with reality, as well.

[Lord Humungus]

too introverted.

a-ha! So he was a libertarian.

[proseshooter]

My father gave me my first shotgun when I was 9 and I never shot any humans, not even in Vietnam.

[HolgerDanske]

I'd like to know if this gun was transferred to him privately, or if the father took him to a gun store and had him complete a background check for the gun.

Considering that he had been in trouble with the law with drugs, and was addicted (and in possession) of controlled substances, it's safe to say the father either privately gave him the gun knowing he was prohibited, or the murderer lied on the background check form.

In either case the gun was transferred illegally, and a background check would not have been performed, and/or obviously didn't work.

[The Wood Chipper 5000]

Dylann Roof has been arrested in NC.

http://www.wltx.com/

[Palin's Buttplug]

Free Republic/Stormfront/Bratbitch scurrying to depict this punk as a "liberal".

[Irish Says Enough Woodchippers]

And Salon scurrying to claim his actions are indicative of all white people/anyone anywhere to the right of Mao.

Congratulations: You've discovered infantile and sleazy political posturing.

Also, I don't think Stormfront is going to scurry to call this guy a liberal since Stormfront is probably going to be accepting him with open arms.

[MJGreen - Docile Citizen]

You Irish bastard, you have to answer for this! Your skin is pale, so this violence is on your head!

[commodious spittoon]

As opposed to Salon's considered response.

[DesigNate]

Oh look, someone already proved Irish right.

[commodious spittoon]

It's instances like this that lend credence to the idea that it's a sockpuppet. The posts are sometimes suspiciously perfect.

[Antilles]

I'm ashamed to say that my first reaction to this crime was dismay at how the left was going to spin this to 'prove' their narrative, rather than concern about the innocent people who died senselessly and needlessly. On the other hand, you know that most Proggies are salivating with glee right now. Unfortunate we can't put our differences aside and all come together to condemn individuals who commit these heinous acts--regardless of the skin color of the perpetrator or victims.

[Woodchip-o-Matic 5000]

That's the MSM for you, though. It's not about offering condolences to the victims of this horrible crime. It's about which party we can allocate blame upon and how we can use this to push our pet issues.

[XM]

Most proggies don't blink when terrorists hit Jewish schools and synagogues. Obama ranted about the crusades only a few days after Kenji Goto (Christian) was decapitated.

"Oh how dare they attack a place of worship".

[l0b0t]

Robby, you seem to have a great deal to learn about African history. Also, thinking that Rhodesia got royally fucked over by the British, noticing that every single thing that Ian Smith predicted has come to pass, and weeping to see the RSA turned from a prosperous nation into a 3rd-world hellhole does not make one a racial determinist.

[Calidissident]

You don't think it's reasonable to think that a guy who wore those flags and then shot up a black church might be racist and might be a fan of those countries for their racial policies? Mugabe being an evil bastard doesn't make Smith and Rhodesia any better, just as Castro doesn't make Batista a good guy, or as Lenin and Stalin don't make the Czars any better. Also, the RSA was prosperous for a very small minority, it's always been a 3rd world hellhole for most of the population - also, while there is plenty to criticize about it, much of the bad stuff is drastically exaggerated by white nationalist propaganda, especially in comparison to how things were under apartheid (for example, while the murder rate in SA is high, it's less than half of what it was when apartheid ended, and income levels are higher today for all racial groups than they were when apartheid ended).

[Seamus]

Mugabe being an evil bastard doesn't make Smith and Rhodesia any better

No, Mugabe being a *worse* bastard than Smith is what makes Smith and Rhodesia better.

[Calidissident]

Forgive me for not being clear, by "any better" I meant "any better than they actually were." Mugabe being worse doesn't mean Rhodesia wasn't an evil regime that deserved and needed to go away (also, it was the actions of people like Smith that led to an environment where Mugabe could gain power in the first place, so they deserve some blame for that as well). We are not and should not be forced to pick between the Mugabes and Smiths of the world and say that one is fine because the other sucks worse. My comparison to Cuba and Russia/USSR is that supporters of Batista or the Czar are not somehow not reprehensible just because their replacements were as bad or worse.

[Ken Shultz]

I don't know if we're seeing a major shift in the old political fault lines or just classic liberal values being thrown completely out the window (or maybe it's both!), but all the signs are there...

In the last 48 hours, I've seen progressives, who used to rail against fundamentalists trying to impose their beliefs on the rest of us to the tune of separation of church and state, insist that we should rearrange our economic system to fight global warming and be consistent with what the pope is saying about science.

I've seen people who claim to be all about civil rights rail against white people everywhere and their inherent incurable racism--because of the actions of one young white man.

We need to chuck our old score cards. The standard positions don't mean what they used to mean. If science is now about supporting the pope, and being against racism is about making generalizations about other people based on their race? Then whatever being on the left means now, it doesn't mean what it used to mean.

[PapayaSF]

Just remember that politics is the mind-killer, and that it's usually emotions that rule. Then a lot of the irrationality becomes understandable.

[John]

Ken that is because there is very little difference between the far right and the far left. They both embrace collective guilt and the use of political terrorism. What is happening is the masks are coming off and we are seeing how close they are.

[Free ?Woodchippers! Society]

Then whatever being on the left means now, it doesn't mean what it used to mean.

It's always meant holding onto a set of poorly reasoned and inconsistent ideas and presenting those ideas in bad faith.

[MSimon]

The Party Line has change. Woe to those who don't change with it.

[Win Bear]

In the last 48 hours, I've seen progressives, who used to rail against fundamentalists trying to impose their beliefs on the rest of us to the tune of separation of church and state, insist that we should rearrange our economic system to fight global warming and be consistent with what the pope is saying about science.

Progressives and Christian churches have a long history of collaborating in Europe, in part because it has been financially so beneficial to the churches, and in part because both are inherently statist and authoritarian. So this really shouldn't come as a surprise.

I've seen people who claim to be all about civil rights rail against white people everywhere and their inherent incurable racism--because of the actions of one young white man.

Again, the details have changed, but the principles haven't: progressives a century ago believed that there intrinsic differences between the races that are passed on across generations, just as they do now; only the details have changed. When progressives advocated forced sterilization and segregation, they really deluded themselves into thinking that they would be good for everybody, including their victims.

[humblebrag]

it makes more sense (to me at least) when you adjust it to this:

People who want/demand equality of outcomes, even when those outcomes mean double standards or contradictions vs. people who don't, because of the double standards and contractions and their consequences on society.

thats how I see it anyway.

[humblebrag]

it makes more sense (to me at least) when you adjust it to this:

People who want/demand equality of outcomes, even when those outcomes mean double standards or contradictions vs. people who don't, because of the double standards and contractions and their consequences on society.

thats how I see it anyway.

[proseshooter]

This church was a gun free zone, which is probably why he chose it as a target. Viva la revolucion.

[Jordan]

Never trust a guy with a bowl-cut.

[WTF]

Not even Prince Valiant?

[l0b0t]

IDK, Moe Howard seems like the most trustworthy of the Stooges.

[WTF]

And he was also the most likely to visit violence upon others. I think I'm seeing a pattern here.

[EDG chippin' WUD]

I was always partial to Larry. He never really started any shit, but he could handle himself. Also, when the Stooges were in a jam, his solutions usually involved explosives or fire, "Let's blast it open!"

[l0b0t]

And to be fair, Larry Fine had the 2nd best haircut (Shemp wins 1st prize).

[l0b0t]

"... his solutions usually involved explosives or fire, "Let's blast it open!""

Also, now all I can think of is Sid Caesar and Edie Adams trying to extricate themselves from a hardware store basement. Additionally, Peter Falk is brilliant in that film (he calls a policeman a "fat NAZI").

[A special place in JW's Hell]

I See Moe

[Ye Olde Kaptious Kristen]

I'm glad you qualified that with the word "guy".

[PapayaSF]

What are the odds the guy was on some sort of anti-depressant?

What I find interesting and particularly obnoxious is that the guy hates blacks and links them to rape, but the ones he chooses to murder are in Bible study in a church. Dude, those are not the blacks you're looking for. They're not likely to be rapists (especially the women). If you're going to act on your wild generalizations, try to make better ones. You could have found a group of young black male gangbangers and shot them. But oh, right, they might have shot back. Coward.

[DesigNate]

$5 says he got rejected by a black girl.

Or like you said, he went after the easiest of targets cause he's a cowardly piece of shit.

[Ye Olde Kaptious Kristen]

i'm gonna go with the peanut gallery above and say he got rejected by a white chick, who then went on to date a black dude.

[Irish Says Enough Woodchippers]

"i'm gonna go with the peanut gallery above and say he got rejected by a white chick, who then went on to date a black dude."

Except his parents named him 'Storm' and he openly wore apartheid South Africa flags, which makes me think he was just raised to be an outright racist.

[A special place in JW's Hell]

I'll take "Why are we trying to divine the motives of a 150 lb. fruit cake?" for $400, Alex.

[WTF]

I'm leaning toward the scenario where he got rejected by a white girl for a black guy, and then went after the easiest of targets because he's a cowardly piece of shit.

[John]

I will be curious to see if he is. I know causality can go both ways. Maybe it is the case that lunatics also happen to be the kind of people who take anti-depressants. But I am starting to wonder if the anti-depressants don't make at least a few ordinary losers into murderous lunatics.

[Warty]

The early 20s are when schizophrenia manifests itself. It seems more likely that he needed more drugs than less.

[Arisuka]

"and Rhodesia, an unrecognized nation that rebelled against black majority rule."

They weren't rebelling. The Marxist blacks, lead by Mugabe, were rebelling against the Rhodesian government, which just happened to be majority white. There is a difference.

[PapayaSF]

Yes, that was very badly phrased.

[Drake]

Then the White rulers stepped down and everyone lived happily ever after.

[John Titor]

Fortunately, the recognized nation of Zimbabwe has been going swimmingly ever since Mugabe took over and collapsed the economy and gave his cronies those horrible white people's farm land.

[Hamster of Doom]

See that face? That's a face that has said the words, "Fuck women. I'm a nice guy. I'm nice to them. The only reason I can't get laid is women hate nice guys."

[Brochettaward]

I'm going to guess more like Daddy issues. His father is probably just as racist and viewed this kid as a disappointment - which he obviously was.

[Ye Olde Kaptious Kristen]

Hamsters hypothesis and yours aren't mutually exclusive.

Her point is that the self-identified "nice guy" is very often a socially-awkward junior douchebag who feels he's entitled to a certain class of woman who wouldn't touch him with a 10-foot-pole.

[Irish Says Enough Woodchippers]

Fuck you guys, if women can't tell how nice I am, it's not my fault they all date stupid jerks with nice abs and fast cars and lots of money and for some reason won't sleep with me on the futon in my parent's basement.

I have an X-Box One and so many games and I have it on good authority that that's the kind of thing women should be in to.

[Ye Olde Kaptious Kristen]

What's funny about the Xbox line, is that the "nice guys" will rudely grill any woman that says she's into gaming so she can prove to him she's a "real gamer girl".

That all goes back to the socially awkward stuff.

[Hamster of Doom]

"You didn't play Fable's Anniversary edition, then. I see."

*crosses off list*

/Nice Guy. SO nice.

[Calidissident]

What I find most funny about those kind of guys is that they rarely go after their female equivalents ("nice girls" who don't get a lot of attention from guys).

[Hamster of Doom]

That's the punchline. They're not nice, they're cunts who lack sufficient hawtness/coolth/cash to get laid despite their cunt behavior.

[Calidissident]

I'm aware. The lack of self-awareness is just astounding and that's what really gets me.

[F. Libertarian Stalin, Jr.]

Take it from one of those so-called nice guys: they don't "go for" the nice girls because they're not very adventurous in the first place. They don't go for anyone, most of the time; they admire from afar and just assume it's not going to work in the first place because of some flaw they see in themselves, real or imagined. Then the resentment starts and builds.

[Calidissident]

"They don't go for anyone, most of the time; they admire from afar"

I have noticed this too, but in my experience the subjects of their admiration are still rarely their female equivalent, which was my main point.

[Brochettaward]

They aren't necessarily contradictory, know. But if we are psychoanalyzing based on his comment, I think too much is being read into it. The racist mumbo jumbo espoused by the Storm Front types almost always includes references to how they rape white women. It's kind of just par the course for their propaganda.

[Ye Olde Kaptious Kristen]

Ding ding ding!

How many fedoras in his closet?

[A special place in JW's Hell]

TRILBY IS NOT A FEDORA.

Know your enema.

[Ye Olde Kaptious Kristen]

They're the ones calling them fedoras. I couldn't possibly care less about what to call someone's scuzzy-looking headgear.

[Warty]

If only he'd waited a little while so he could buy my all-new interracial PUA guide. The Pussy Hound 4: The Blackening. So many lives could have been saved.

[jesse.in.mb]

Chapter 2: If all else fails, trans-dimensional tentacle rape everyone and everything within the known universe until it stops moving.

I'm gonna need at least three copies.

[Juan "Brushmaster" Seguin]

Good call. My copy was defective, all the pages started sticking together shortly after I got it.

[commodious spittoon]

I knew it. Screw the SF crowd, the blood is on the hands of internet MRAs.

[jesse.in.mb]

Lennie looked sadly up at him. "They was so little," he said apologetically. "I'd pet 'em, and pretty soon they bit my fingers and I pinched their heads a little and then they was dead?because they was so little. I wish't we'd get the rabbits pretty soon, George. They ain't so little."

[Brochettaward]

The low IQ part above is almost certainly correct. Social outcast, almost certainly raised in a racist household. And yea, I'm guaranteeing their will be online rants they connect to him. You don't wear those flags on your jacket unless you are pretty seriously involved in the cause there.

[Cirrusly]

The murderer should be punished for this heinous crime. But let us not forget that Dylan Roof is to be presumed innocent until proven guilty. My heart goes out to the victims and the community.

[Brochettaward]

There's video of him entering the church and witnesses to the shooting. I don't think there's much doubt as to his innocence.

[Woodchip-o-Matic 5000]

Should be an easy trial, then.

[commodious spittoon]

Who cares about whether Roof is guilty? That's a tedious job for the legal process. No, what matters is indicting much larger groups to which he belonged either by birth or predilection. And the best part is, we don't have to prove their guilt.

[Win Bear]

Look, the shooter is white-skinned and an evil monster. If you are white-skinned, that obviously means you are probably an evil monster deep down inside too and you certainly share part of his guilt. Fight racism! /prog

[John]

And watch as the very same people who swear that things like Rotherham and the barbaric treatment of gays, apostates and non Muslims in nearly every majority Muslim nation on earth says nothing about Islam as a whole proceed to explain how the acts of a single psychotic in Charleston proves that America is irredeemably racist and all white men who are not confirmed Democratic voters should be disarmed and placed under police surveillance.

[commodious spittoon]

The problem in Rotherham wasn't a matter of religion or ethnicity but one of exceptions carved out for political reasons. Those conspirators and traffickers acted within the social penumbra created by cultural apologists and the authorities who operated under informal rules that protected the rapists. When columnists on the left come up with a corollary in America other than alleging intangibles like the Giffords-Palin-crosshairs "link" or the old gun-control throwaway, they might be worth taking seriously.

[John]

No. they operated in a culture that accepted it. What they did is totally okay in Pakistan. And they got away with it because the police were afraid of being called racists and ultimately didn't give a shit if working class white girls were being raped. It was the direct result of identity politics. Muslim men have greater rights than working class girls and were therefore allowed to rape them.

[Cloudbuster]

When you've murdered nine people in cold blood, you've committed enough good old "crime crime" to deserve the harshest possible penalty. Labeling it a hate crime is just fodder for race agitators.

[Woodchip-o-Matic 5000]

That's all hate crime legislation ever is

[Woodchip-o-Matic 5000]

Cue "Blame the libertarians" in 3...2...1....

[Brochettaward]

Obama is already getting on national TV to address this matter. Never let a good crisis go to waste...

[Lord Humungus]

based on what I remember from my punk rock days - and later from doing shows for the local scene, this guy isn't a white power skinhead*:

the hair is wrong - should have been close-cropped or a baldy
no flight jacket or British clothing - Fred Perry / Lonsdale
didn't see any boots with white laces

The choice of flags is interesting though - shows some real historical knowledge. It makes me wonder if he (or his family) is native to the States. So perhaps just your old-fashioned racist.

*note - all conjecture based on a few pics and a whole bunch of guesses.

[commodious spittoon]

In fairness, I've known a number of Paulites who are freakishly well-informed of the goings-on in 1913 and the most picayune details surrounding the creation of the FRB, but who I would not trust with my car even if valet parking is free.

[John]

Yeah, he is just a loser. He is not a white power skin head. He doesn't fit their mold. He fits the Adam Lanza, somewhere on the Aspy scale, psychotic reject mold.

[MSimon]

http://www.counton2.com/story/.....charleston

[MSimon]

Suggested by this comment:

http://reason.com/blog/2015/06.....nt_5378707

Comments to MSimon's link above (at 10:28) include someone claiming there were black gangs attacking whites in Charleston back in April.

[Woodchip-o-Matic 5000]

This is going to encourage more subpoenaing of internet commenters' identities.

Just think if he had a woodchipper!

[KerryW]

I made that comment... nice find on that report, I was too lazy to look for it.

The news video never said anywhere that the teens were black. The news article that went with the video never mentioned it, except for quoting the campus alert, which did say there were 15 black teens.

[Warty]

Just in case any of you would like to dislike Obama a little bit more.

Lainie Fritz @lainiefritz
Obama: "this type of mass violence does not happen in other advanced countries." @WCBD #CharlestonShooting
Retweeted by WCBD

[John]

The people of Norway are on the phone and would like to have a word with him. Honestly I don't think he is lying. I think he is just that stupid and out of touch with reality. As George Castanza says, "it is not a lie if you believe it". I think he really believes the things like this he pulls out of his ass.

What a moron. He is by far and away the least intelligent and thoughtful President ever to hold office.

[Woodchip-o-Matic 5000]

Je suis...um...wait, what was the question?

[John]

He is like a spoiled child. One of those kids who their parents treat like a trained seal and reward for any acting out or showing off no matter how immature and annoying. His whole career is built around spouting bullshit and being rewarded by condescending white Progs for doing so.

[Mike M.]

I guess the Holocaust never really happened in this retarded dipshit's world.

[Pro Libertate]

France, Norway, Scotland, Japan, etc., etc., etc. . .all apparently not advanced nations.

Most useless president ever.

[lap83]

As George Castanza says, "it is not a lie if you believe it". I think he really believes the things like this he pulls out of his ass.

I think it's a combination of narcissism and stupidity. Stupid people can be humble and at least realize that they don't have the power to make something so just by saying it.

[Irish Says Enough Woodchippers]

Well, in fairness, Obama skipped the Charlie Hebdo rally, so it's very possible he's unaware that anything happened.

[MSimon]

His father gave him the gun for his 21st Birthday.

http://www.nydailynews.com/new.....-1.2262393

[Brochettaward]

Is it racist if I point out that white violence in America is entirely comparable to white violence in other 'advanced' countries?

The gun control they always suggest would do nothing to stop the mass shootings they are in response to. Nothing in the Sandy Hook gun control push would have stopped Sandy Hook. Nothing they suggest here would have stopped this one.

This story was going one way from this morning. This is like the progressive wet dream for a mass shooting. The guy is almost certainly ring wing, white, racially motivated...Only thing missing is he didn't use an 'assault weapon' judging by the reloading 5 times thing. But that's a minor detail that will be glossed over by the press.

They get to beat the gun control, crazy right wing extremist, and racism drums all in one story.

[Irish Says Enough Woodchippers]

"Is it racist if I point out that white violence in America is entirely comparable to white violence in other 'advanced' countries?"

Yes it would be because we're supposed to pretend that the problem is 'American' violence when the actual problem is inner-city African American violence.

The problem is that progressives refuse to acknowledge that you can state a fact without making editorial positions on why that fact is true. So saying 'look, the problem is inner city black violence and we should figure out what to do about that rather than pretending something that's a regional problem is actually a national problem' is considered to be racist even though at no point did anyone argue that the violence in black neighborhoods is because of their race.

They don't want to acknowledge this problem because they view black people as inherently victims so they don't want to say anything that could even be construed as negative and also because their political goals are helped by pretending there's a 'national' problem of American violence which actually doesn't exist. If it's a regional problem then national gun control doesn't make sense as a solution, and that' their real goal.

[In League with the Dark Ones]

Only thing missing is he didn't use an 'assault weapon' judging by the reloading 5 times thing.

Reloading 5 time and "assault weapon" are not mutually exclusive.

[John Titor]

Norway, France, Britain, Canada (if three Mounties and/or a Parliament Hill shooting count? Moreso if you count FLQ stuff), Australia, Germany, Spain and a couple dozen others all disagree genius. Also, let's just multiply all their rates by six to ten considering all those places are much, much smaller population wise.

[Irish Says Enough Woodchippers]

Dude, Norway has 5 million people in it which is 1/60th of America's population. Anders Breivik killed 77 people.

By my math, that means that Anders Breivik killed a greater proportion of Norwegians than every American mass shooter has killed in the last...what? 30 years? 4620 Americans would have to die for it to be the same percentage of our country's population.

[XM]

He's right, Israel is not an advanced nation.

"You know, we have to remember that Christians did bad things in the past, we can't get on the high horse".

Right after the Kenji Goto beheading. Didn't attend the Paris rally and didn't say anything of importance after ISIS executed 20 Egyptian Christians.

[Win Bear]

Having been born in one of those "other advanced countries", I have two things to remark: (1) yes, this sort of thing does happen in other advanced countries, and (2) I would prefer if the US remain neither "advanced" nor "civilized" in the European sense.

[John Galt]

So there's soup bowl haircut revival among the Stormfront crowd, too? Up and until now, all the soup bowls I've seen in recent years were all being sported by hipsters or other assorted members of the progfascist crowd.

[Woodchip-o-Matic 5000]

I, for one, think the best way to prevent a tragedy like this from ever happening again is to divide Americans into tribes based on arbitrary factors like how much melanin their skin produces, and collectively blame all people who, despite being appropriately dismayed at this despicable act, happen to share certain physical characteristics.

Also, something something libertarians something....

[MSimon]

Maybe it has something to do with a mob attacking women in Charleston in April:

http://www.wnd.com/2015/05/9-1.....harleston/

[Half-Virtue, Half-Vice]

Tie a noose and make it tight,
A feast for crow come tonight!

[The Grinch]

For a guy guy who didn't want to get caught or go out in a blaze of glory, not changing the, um, distinctive haircut was a bad move. How often do you see that, maybe 1 on 10,000 adults? I'd put money on either dumb as dirt or crazy as a shithouse rat.

[Mike M.]

I've been perusing some of the lefty boards, and frankly it's pretty fucking pathetic how gleeful they are that one of these horrible events finally turned out to be a racist white neo-Nazi type. It appears that they think this incident validates their political views or something.

[SilverSurfer]

I'm puzzled by this sentence: " Rhodesia, an unrecognized nation that rebelled against black majority rule." Seems sort of hair-splitting to call it an "unrecognized nation". You are only a nation of the super-nation says you are? Or your previous colonial overlords? Seems an odd position for a libertarian magazine to tacitly support.

Despite the fretting of the Brits and presumably the UN, Rhodesia managed to run it's own affairs for the period from 1965 to 1979. And in the period before that there was the colony of Southern Rhodesia.

[BuSab Agent]

Do you have a flag?

/Eddie Izzard

[Walter Heisenburg]

False Flag attack aimed at keeping the racial tensions high and a means to an end for gun owners. They will be coming for the guns. I got something for them and it isn't my gun... try and get me and see.

[Calidissident]

/sarc?

[Joshua]

I'm afraid not. There are a few folks throughout the 'verse who are claiming this is a false flag thing. My theories:
-False flag claiming false flag to make reason commenters look like crazies
-Genuinely thinks this might be a false flag operation
-Troll

[Seamus]

The attack is considered a hate crime.

Well, it sure doesn't look like a love crime.

[brown]

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[proseshooter]

I suppose the anti-gunners will have a field day over this. What kind of firearm did he use? He is too young to legally purchase handguns.

[scallywag]

Friends of Dylann Roof said he had openly boasted planning a massacre, but what is equally disturbing is that Roof had been arrested 2 times earlier this year, first, after scoping a shopping mall and asking when workers came and left (he would be found to have drugs on him) and secondly when he returned to the mall's roof, 2 months later taking logistics. Why? Had he being planning a massacre back then? And were blacks always his target and why did he in the end settle on the church?

http://scallywagandvagabond.co.....-massacre/

[Duelles]

Some are not fit to live among us. Death penalty or life without parole . . . I don't care which. Crazy frigging bastard.

[Gene Poole]

A hate crime. It's interesting to speculate on what it would be called were he of, say, Kazakh origin.