Timothy McVeigh

Deeply Confused Newsweek Story Compares Republicans to Timothy McVeigh

The weekly gets both the past and the present wrong.


Here's how Nina Burleigh decided to open a Newsweek piece pegged to a recent Republican gathering in Oklahoma City:

Dead. But alive enough for Newsweek.
Weekly World News

Republican presidential candidates gathered last month at the Oklahoma City Cox Conference Center, just a few blocks from the site of what was the Alfred R. Murrah Federal Building. Two decades ago, anti-government militia sympathizer Timothy McVeigh blew it up in what he called an act of war against the U.S. government. It was the worst crime of domestically bred terrorism in American history. McVeigh was executed in 2001, but since then, some of his militia ideals have gone mainstream and even been introduced as laws in many states, including Oklahoma.

Legislators in dozens of states have submitted proposals to nullify or block federal laws—a longtime goal of militias. These have included exempting states from federal gun laws and educational standards, as well as, of course, Obamacare. That doesn't make these anti-federal statutes part of McVeigh's madness, but Republican politicians now often echo conspiracy theories once relegated to troglodyte pamphlets. And several states have passed laws making gold a currency—a step toward returning to the gold standard—even though currency is a federal responsibility.

The article goes on in that vein, citing the Bundy standoff, the fears around the military's upcoming Jade Helm 15 exercise, the movement against Agenda 21, and so on. I assume you all understand why this is a ludicrous way to frame the discussion—an approach roughly comparable to starting a story with "Environmental activists gathered today at Harvard, the same university attended by the Unabomber"—so we can pass quickly over that point. The question of whether McVeigh might have agreed with any of these ideas is entirely separate from the question of whether the ideas have any merit.

So let's look instead at this notion that these ideas were only found among the McVeigh types in 1995 but now have "gone mainstream." In fact, you could hear similar proposals and fears—sometimes the exact same proposals and fears—in GOP circles before McVeigh's mass murder. Indeed, some Democrats reacted to the Oklahoma bombing by trying to link the Republicans to McVeigh; back then the argument went that they had somehow inspired him, not the other way around. This should not come as a surprise to Burleigh. In 1995, she wrote a post–Oklahoma City story about the militias for Time titled "The Movement's Sympathetic Ears on Capitol Hill." I guess she forgot about that.

When she isn't getting the past wrong, Burleigh is being confused about the present. "Since [Obama's] election in 2008," she writes, "the number of anti-government extremist groups tracked by the [Southern Poverty Law Center] has risen to another record high, 874." Well, the SPLC's latest report does list 874 groups in that category. But I don't know where Burleigh is getting this "record high" business. In 2012 the SPLC's count was 1,360, which ordinarily is regarded as more than 874. The SPLC itself acknowledges that the number of groups is shrinking. Here's a chart it put out just a few months ago:

One waves with his left hand, one waves with his right. And one boldly stands alone.
Southern Poverty Law Center

These days, with the number of actual organizations on the decline, the SPLC frets much more about "lone wolves." Evidently Burleigh didn't get the memo. Or else the memo just didn't serve her purpose, which is to build toward a conclusion comparing McVeigh's fertilizer bomb to peaceful politics:

When politicians court a base that believes the federal government is the enemy, it becomes nearly impossible to negotiate. Judging by the gridlocked committee rooms of the Capitol, that metaphorical truck bomb has already detonated in the heart of the American political process.

I'm tempted to respond with a fertilizer-related metaphor of my own.

NEXT: If You Want to Be Rich, Choose Your Country of Birth Wisely

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  1. I thought the SPLC itself was an extremist hate group? I find it odd that SPLC is so commonly cited as a credible source rather than hateful racebaiting fearmongers.

    1. This.

    2. You must be white people.

      1. I’m pretty sure he’s a member of the “pissed off white guy brigade” along with anyone else who has ever disagreed with Bo.

        Speaking of which, I haven’t seen him around shitting on the threads since he was outed as another Tulpa sock. Funny that.

        1. That is interesting. And if Tulpa and Bo really are separate people and if that really wasn’t Bo, it sure is telling that the limit of his trolling was to pass himself off as a bona fide lawyer. Which is something that “real” Bo does all the time anyways. He has fucking “esquire” in his name ffs.

          In short, the outting of Bo as a blowhard fraud was real, notwithstanding the charge of being Tulpa.

          1. Using “esquire” is a sign that a lawyer is a douchebag anyway.

            1. Wait, so Bo was some other fake login for Tulpa?

              How pathetic does your life have to be that you keep creating fake logins to troll a libertarian website that doesn’t even filter spam?

    3. I find it odd that multiple people on the SPLC hate list have been shot at, in some instances by people who found out about them from the SPLC’s own website.

      In particular, the Family Research Council had a guy try to shoot up their offices who found the office using an SPLC hate map. The SPLC has therefore been linked to more acts of violence than a solid half of the groups they claim to be ‘extremists.’

      I mean, the day the SPLC seriously added pick-up artists to their list of hate groups was the day everyone should have realized to stop taking them seriously.

      1. Oh, the SPLC also added Bosch Fawstin to its hate list literally a week after he was almost murdered in Garland, Texas by Islamists. So the SPLC has a great deal of tact, is what I’m trying to say.

        1. Now I gotta go to their web site to see how many Islamist groups they’ve documented….

          1. Nope, can’t do it. Too many hate groups listed.

            I get the impression that everything that is not the SPLC is a hate group.

            1. Is “Hit ‘n’ Run Commenters” listed?

              1. Nope, unfortunately. No mention of The Reason Foundation at all, either in DC or Cali.

                1. Can we remedy this? Can we get Reason added? Because that should be a point of pride. Like, when an artist is parodied by Weird Al, that is a sign that the artist has made it.

          2. Please report back on that one. I wish you safe travels through that social justice hellscape.

          3. The hate incidents are pure gold:

            Loma Rica, CA
            Benjamin F. Rorie, 37, pleaded not guilty to felony assault charges with hate crime enhancements for allegedly using racial slurs while beating a black man with a pipe on April 18.
            Type: Assault
            Reported: 04/29/2015

            Dude used an epithet while beating the shit out of someone. So much worse than if he just beat the shit out of someone.

            1. Now that is funny!

          4. Just looking at the DC area and they do have the NOI and New Black Panthers listed. Looks like some Islamist orgs are listed (they’re categorized under “general hate”). So, I was kinda right in saying everyone not the SPLC is a hate group.

            1. Do they list broadcast times for the 2 minutes hate?

        2. So the SPLC has a great deal of tact, is what I’m trying to say.

          24 hr. rule!

    4. It’s OK because they hate the right people. Principals, not principles.

    5. The SLPC once cited me as a violent right-winger. I wish I were joking. I was on a message board, and some guy said our fascist politicians should be made to pay, and their kids, and their grandkids, etc etc. I called him a reasonably uncivil name and pointed out his problem is with Pelosi, not her family.

      Turns out the SLPC was watching this convo and released a list of violent right-ring comments. Here’s the thing. They ignored the douche, and listed me by name and my comment out of context, as the violent comment.

      I was a little proud, but every since I’ve wondered why on earth anyone quotes them. They don’t bother to hide that they’re full of shit and make most of this up as they go.

      1. That is some serious cred, right there. Kudos!

        1. Everyone who didn’t make their hate list was seriously jealous. Never change, internets.

        2. That’s right up there with being declared a “suppresive person” by Hubbard’s happy little nut-cult. Well done.


      2. Wait, the SPLC snoops on idiotic conversations on message boards? Like the NSA?

        1. How else would everyone know just how badly the SLPC were needed if they didn’t keep an eye on us to prove the hate we harbor in our cold black hearts?

          1. Hey, dude, they may be idiots, but they got you dead to rights. Hater.

            1. Yep. I radiate evil, and they were helplessly drawn to it, like moths to a flame.

              1. (wanders closer to HoD’s strange, compelling radiation)

              2. +1 Fallink in Luf Again performed by Marlene Dietrich

          2. The mere fact you referred to your cold heart as Black is proof you are a racist. I bet you use that expression “like the pot calling the kettle black”

            1. Better than “call a spade a spade.” Which, evidently, is both racist and voodoo.

        2. How come we’re not on the SPLC list yet? I’m microaggressed.

        3. I am pretty sure even the NSA has better things to do. Think about it, if you were the NSA what would you be doing? Reading boards like this or perusing various Hollywood starlet’s phones and computers for evidence of “extremist tendencies”?

          1. Oh my God, John is right. The NSA brought us The Fappening. They brought us JLaw’s butthole. I now love the NSA.

            NSA! NSA! NSA!

            Wait, though. There was no Alison Brie in The Fappening. I hate the NSA! Down with NSA!

            1. Maybe Allison is a nice girl and doesn’t keep those kinds of photos in her phone. The NSA can’t collect what isn’t there.

              1. I’d much rather she was the kind of girl who took those kind of photos but was smart enough to not let them get stolen. Wouldn’t that be better?

                1. The NSA sees all.

                2. I remember reading some thread somewhere that said that we don’t have photos of Emma Watson yet, because she uses a Samsung.

                  1. Nonsense. She’s rich.


            2. Did you see her in Get Hard?

              Oh. My. God.

              1. Emma Watson, the Harry Potter chick, was in Get Hard? Really?

                1. IMDB does not show Emma on the full cast and crew page.

                  1. (Allison Brie)

                    1. threading failures again

                2. Damn threading fail.

                  As Kristen pointed out, I meant Alison Brie.

                  Maybe I should have included a picture.

                  1. Bless you.

              2. I hate Will Ferrell and his shit-ass movies so much that not even Alison Brie (in a pretty minor role at that) being in it can get me to watch. I’ll just watch Scream 4 again instead.

        4. HBO did a documentary about white supremacists with Morris Dees as the producer/narrator and spent far too much time showing examples of bad late 90s websites (probably Geocities and Angelfire stuff, too) than they did on examining actual cases. I remember one chilling scene had a white supremacist murderer boasting from death row that he’d go around asking women if they’d have sex with a black guy and shoot them if they said yes, and that case got explored a fraction of the time them showing pictures of websites that had bad cartoons of black people with giant lips got. So internet obsession is big with them. Much easier to browse Stormfront than put in investigative work.

          1. It’s been a while since I browsed Stormfront, but when I did sometimes they had more interesting articles or comments than here.

      3. I can’t tell you how envious I am right now. Hamster you magnificent bastard. We are all unworthy!!

        1. Pissing off all the right people since 1978.

      4. Hampsty, I hate to call your truthiness into question, but I think I may have to ask for some sort of proof.

        I guess I’m so cynical nowdays that I’m suspicious of your claim. I think that you only made it so that none of the rest of us would dare to make fun of you.

        If we are to believe you, any of us who taunt you now would get the SLPC Stamp Of Approval for attacking a known hatemonger.

        HyR commenters are known for tolerating a lot of things, but I think that would be a bit much for us. Even Bo would mock someone approved by the SLPC.

        1. I have to go look it up? That sounds like work. I think I’m okay with you assuming I’m a liar, if the alternative is digging through the SLPC website to find a cite from several years ago.

          1. Tell you what. I did poke around and try their search function, but finding it would take forever. So I contacted them for assistance in the matter.

            Hello! Several years ago, you published a report about hate and violent right-wing comments on the internet. One of the websites you pulled the comments from was the Tree of Liberty. The discussion in question which you watched from that site had one fellow state that fascist politicians, and their children, and their grandchildren, should pay for what the politicians do to Americans. I called this fellow a reasonably uncivil name and said his problem was with Pelosi, not her family. You cited me as the violent right-winger, by name. I would love to have a link to this report, as many people are envious that I made it into one of your lists, but I can’t seem to find it through your site’s search function. I have supplied my handle from that website as my name here, for ease of search. If you could find that report, I would very much appreciate it.

            Warm regards.

            I’ll let you know when I hear back.

            1. Let it be known that HoD shits bigger’n you.

            2. Totally gangsta, Hamsta.

            3. Hampsty, I totally bow to you awesomeness. That is great.

              In fact, I will name you to my college of cardinals. It is the least I can do for doubting you.

            4. Let me be known. The science is settled. The moon can take a hike, for the balls of Hamster of Doom are now recognized as Earth’s largest satellite.

        2. Jimbo,

          We are all honorable men here, we don’t have to give assurances as if we were lawyers.

          1. I thought this was a snide comment about Bo at first.

      5. but every since I’ve wondered why on earth anyone quotes them.

        What is somewhat tragic about groups like SPLC is that they truly believe they are valued for their research and policies. In reality, they’re valued because they provide info (no matter how badly) that fits the narrative. If they ever got out of step with that, they would end up like Cindy Sheehan.

        1. Haha! I remember Cindy Sheehan.

    6. They used to not be retarded.

      1. You must be very old if you can remember that.

        1. I remember it too. It was well before they had an Internet presence. They actually did some important work. They finished the job & should’ve retired.

      2. Seems to be a something that often affects groups. I’m sure there are some deep sociological reasons. I was reading about how the ACLU operated in the 1920s and they were brilliant. And, some of their states branches still are, but not all (from memory there was a generation split there). NOW has a similar history and I would say the NRA is exhibiting signs too.

        1. This page by Popehat on organizations innevitably being taken over needs to be brought up on occasion: http://popehat.com/2014/10/21/…..s-to-obit/

          1. So I started reading that then realized how long it is. Bookmarked for later reading.

            1. You know who else thought it was too long?

              1. John Holme’s co-stars?

              2. Your mom?

              3. Pinnochio? Or maybe Bill Clinton? Or Monica Lewinski? TL; DR? Dr. TL? How many guesses do we get?

        2. It’s been downhill since the Illinois Nazis. They ruin everything. They are almost as bad as Nicole.

        3. Damn, that is so right. Some people or organiz’ns w a cause just become redundant & outlast their usefulness w their effort (such as Harold Stassen or the March of Dimes), some idle hands become the devil’s plaything as in the examples given here, some go out w an everlasting whine instead of a whimper. In The Education of a Speculator Niederhoffer gives an example of a little storefront candy oper’n that’d formerly been a big corp.

    7. I have been wondering the same.

  2. Progs like trains, Hitler liked trains, Progs are Hitlers.

    See, I can do it too.

      1. Just what is a sex kitchen? Inquiring minds…

    1. You know who else liked trains?

      1. Sir Topham hat?

          1. Even I know that one. Amazing what having kids does for your knowledge of kids’ TV shows.

            Oh, I’m brushing my teeth on top
            It’s so much fun, I hate to stop.

            1. I had to google it.

          2. Johnny Cash?

      2. Goering?

      3. David Lean?

      4. Ayn Rand?

      5. *does best archer voice*

        Model enthusiasts?

      6. Anna Karenina?

    2. Reductio ad Mcveigh?

    3. “Progs like trains, Hitler liked trains, Progs are Hitlers.

      See, I can do it too.”

      Scruffy Nerfherder breathed oxygen, Hitler breathed oxygen, Scruffy Nerfherder is just like Hitler.

      See, I can do it do!

      (No, the Noble SQRLSY One does ***NOT*** breath oxygen… If you must so impertinently ask… I breath, and sustain myself purely on, the purest essence of All Things, which Art Mine Own Moral Superiority!)

  3. Speaking of hyperbole [re Rand Paul]…………

    “Shutting down American espionage and surveillance capabilities, even for a few days, is too off-brand for the GOP ? especially at the moment.”


    1. In other words, Rand Paul sounds like a lot of Democrats after the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks.

      Yeah right, sure, whatever…

      1. Sounds like a lot of Democrats…you mean he voted for the Patriot Act?

  4. Oh, if you oppose Federal intervention in anything/in any way, you’re a domestic terrorist. I get it.

    Because One Size Fits All is the *best* size.

    1. Federalism you say? You’re just being nostalgic about SLAVERY!!!!

  5. When politicians court a base that believes the federal government is the enemy, it becomes nearly impossible to negotiate.

    Yeah, and?

    1. APOSTATE!

  6. What the hell is this “Newsweek” you are referencing?

    1. I believe it refers to weekly 3-page pamphlet that gets published and sits in airport kiosks for several days before being discarded

    1. Aliens.

    2. Poe’s law in action.

  7. Legislators in dozens of states have submitted proposals to nullify or block federal laws?a longtime goal of militias.

    You know who else breathed oxygen?

    1. No fucking way, I see it now. Holy shit, it’s all true!

    2. Oprah?

    3. Breatharians maybe? ? Us Illumi-naughty folks, of course, know who the Breatharians are? AND we ALSO take pity upon you meager Ignoramati types! To “Illuminate” things for you mere Ignoramati, please see Breatharian beliefs at http://www.breatharian.com/breatharians.html … Morally Superior folks can subsist on air and air alone! I’m not sure, but I suspect that oxygen is the critical element of air?

    4. The Lizard people?

  8. Legislators in dozens of states have submitted proposals to nullify or block federal laws?a longtime goal of militias.

    Nazis were ardent supporters of building roads. Stalin liked to use the state to “create jobs”. Pol Pot was anti-Imperialism.

    1. You know who else was a national socialist?

      1. Randy Weaver’s baby?

      2. FDR?

      3. Karl Hungus?

        1. -1 ethos

    2. They see nothing wrong with political violence (see every Che t-shirt ever) as long as it’s violence for the right politics.

      1. The politics of an institution financed by taxes or worse cannot by definition be peaceful.

    3. You know both Kentucky and Virginia had resolutions of interposition and nullification, written by James Madison and Thomas Jefferson – both quite famously members of a militia. No right-thinking person could seriously want to be associated with any ideas fostered by the likes of those two.

  9. 1,360, which ordinarily is regarded as more than 874

    “Math is hard” — Talking Barbie

    1. #IFLS!

  10. “I’d be happy to give him [oral sex] just to thank him for keeping abortion legal,”
    Nina Burleigh on Bill Clinton.

    1. Is that what passes for journalistic integrity? “Speaking to truth to power” must be hard when you have a statist cock lodged so far down your throat.

      1. And this time, that wasn’t a metaphor.

      2. Slut shaming!

        1. Let the record show that I love sluts.

    2. Completely OT question. A few months back, you posted a link to the a story about “Flipped Classrooms.” We’re getting increasing pressure to come up with innovative teaching methods and I like the idea. However, when I discussed it with one of my intro classes, they were pretty honest and said they would need significant consequences/rewards to do the work at home before coming to class.

      Do you know of any good websites which are documenting the success (or otherwise) of the idea at the college level?

      1. Indeed, I do. Handke has documented the success of flipped classrooms at the U of Marburg on his youtube channel Virtual Linguistics Campus, but more importantly, he discusses how to do it. He also has a book on the subject. I gotta run to class but feel free to email me using my handle without spaces at gmail.

        1. Thanks.

      2. I always taught my classes at Mercy College by requiring the reading be done before the class. It seemed silly to do it the other way around. I always wanted the last shot at the material & be able to answer their Qs.

    1. Wasn’t he just re-elected in a…errrr…..”landslide”?

      1. Hmm, in general terms, yes. But he had to go to a second ballot which was unusual.

    2. This is a good day.

      I couldn’t believe it when I saw it. Still not sure I believe it.

      1. Yeah, but it can still get better if they cancel Qatar. Nobody wants to play in a sandbox, not even in January.

        1. Meh. They held the Club World Cup in Abu Dhabi for two years in a row while I was there. That’s in December. The weather is lovely that time of year for the most part. Except when it rains (which is usually a February thing, but it happens in Dec., too). Then the entire place floods.

        2. But you are right – they need to re-bid Qatar because of the bribes and the stupidity of playing a World Cup in a country with one city (and a second one being created out of whole cloth).

          And human rights issues.


          1. You would rather the laborers have died for nothing rather than soccer? You monster!

            1. Is your nickname, perchance, “Sepp”?

              ‘Cuz that’s bang-on for something he might actually say.

    3. Some of the footy blogs are saying he pulled this move to allow his supporters more time to organize behind whoever he picks as his successor.

      Oh, and the sleazy shite is now calling for term limits A WEEK AFTER HIS FIFTH ELECTION.

      1. He’s definitely a shit, and sleazy. But term limits is not a bad idea. They get a four year term. I think that should be enough, stops it becoming a fiefdom. They could do what some organizations do at their next election by electing a president and then the next president at the same time to provide some continuity.

        1. Yeah, I don’t have a fundamental problem with term limits I just find it to be the height of hypocrisy for this douchecanoe to raise the issue now.

          1. Agreed.

    4. Went to Tim Roth’s Twitter to see if he had anything to say (because he played Blatter in that FIFA-funded movie). No Tweets since 2011, sadly.

    5. More important sports news: New Zealand defeats England in second test to tie series:


      Warning! Auto-start video!

  11. The one tiny little bright spot in this? If this is the best the progs have got, it suggests their actual policy ideas aren’t getting much traction.

    1. I think it’s really showing fear. The last time they were throwing around McVeigh was 2010 when they knew they were going to get trounced.

  12. I try to act surprised, but it gets harder every day.

  13. So how much of Bernie Sanders’ platform overlaps with the ideology of the Symbiolese Liberation Army?

    1. Well, in all fairness I don’t think that Bernie has ever kidnapped an heiress. Happy to be proven wrong.

  14. The SPLC itself acknowledges that the number of groups is shrinking.

    M&A in the Hate Group sector is booming, it seems. I should start a Hate and Fear sector fund.

  15. Let’s change the references a little bit, and see how that works:

    Democratic presidential candidates gathered last month at the Javitz Convention Center, just a few miles from the site of what was the World Trade Center. Fourteen years ago, anti-American terrorists blew it up in an act of war against the U.S. government. It was the worst crime of terrorism in American history. Osama bin Laden was killed in 2011, but since then, some of his ideals have gone mainstream and even been introduced as laws in many places, including New York City.

    Democrats have submitted proposals to withdraw troops from Muslim countries?a longtime goal of Al Qaeda. Some Democrats have argued for exempting hate speech against Muslims from First Amendment protections, as well as, of course, restricting greenhouse gas emissions and the use of oil–something bin Laden blamed for climate change. That doesn’t make these anti-individual freedom Democrats part of Osama bin Laden’s madness, but Democrat politicians now often echo conspiracy theories once relegated to troglodyte pamphlets.

    Works just as well, doesn’t it?

    1. Brilliant. Of course, if you weren’t already, you’re now on the SPLC list.

    2. [golf clap]

  16. “Environmental activists gathered today at Harvard, the same university attended by the Unabomber”

    How about “President Obama visited Chicago today, the same city where the avowed terrorist who hosted a campaign fundraiser for him lived.”

  17. Just in case any of you white racists were wondering….

    I still would.

    1. The crustier the better huh?

  18. Deeplyliberately Confuseding Newsweek Story Compares Republicans to Timothy McVeigh


  19. When politicians court a base that believes the federal government is the enemy

    Nice. Maybe that”base” merely believes the federal government ought to resrtict its activities to those expressly authorized by that raggedy old Constitution.

    1. Racist teabagger!

  20. Deeply Confused Newsweek Story Compares Republicans to Timothy McVeigh

    Wow! The 90s are on the phone! It wants its Proggie bromides back!

    Legislators in dozens of states have submitted proposals to nullify or block federal laws?a longtime goal of militias.

    And I would’ve gotten away with it, if it weren’t for those pesky militias!

    By the way, Timothy McVeigh was NOT a member of a militia.

    And several states have passed laws making gold a currency?a step toward returning to the gold standard?even though currency is a federal responsibility.

    In fact it is not. States are allowed to coin currency just as long as it is minted in gold or silver and nothing else.

    1. “currency is a federal responsibility” – specifically, Congress has the power “To coin money, regulate the value thereof, and of foreign coin, and fix the standard of weights and measures.”

      And Congress and the courts inform us that this means Congress can issue paper currency not backed by anything.

    2. Where does it say the states can mint gold coins?

      1. Article 1, Section 10

        No State shall enter into any Treaty, Alliance, or Confederation; grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal; coin Money; emit Bills of Credit; make any Thing but gold and silver Coin a Tender in Payment of Debts; pass any Bill of Attainder, ex post facto Law, or Law impairing the Obligation of Contracts, or grant any Title of Nobility.

        That wording is confusing, since right before it says no state can coin Money.

        1. It means the states can’t get around the prohibition against coining money by making other things, like say state bonds, legal tender. It doesn’t mean the states can coin gold and silver money.

  21. I know these people are hacks, but articles like these cause me to believe that our education system really has stopped teaching critical thinking. Take this gem

    Legislators in dozens of states have submitted proposals to nullify or block federal laws?a longtime goal of militias.

    I honestly think the author is not being a hack here. I think he has such poor critical thinking skills he doesn’t understand that process is different than substance. As if the desire to have the states void one law is exactly the same as the desire to have the states void any law regardless of each law’s merit or morality. This is what passes for thinking now in America.

    Yeah, we are doomed.

    1. These are the same people who say anyone who supports states’ rights supports slavery, because the Confederacy supported states’ rights.

      1. I read that as “the Confederacy supported slaves’ rights.”

        Had to reread to figure out where I went wrong.

  22. Slightly OT: Has anyone read “The Third Terrorist” by Jayna Davis? I just finished it. Horribly written book, but she presents some compelling evidence that McVeigh and Nichols had Middle Eastern accomplices and that the bombing wasn’t a purely domestic terrorist case.

    I found her writing so poor that I had trouble evaluating her actual evidence. The most compelling point she made was that building such a powerful bomb would be hard, that McVeigh had no known aptitude for it, and that the explosion resembled truck bombs known to have been set off by Islamist groups.

    Anyway, just wondering if this is pure tinfoil hat stuff that I should dismiss, or not.

    1. I haven’t read the book but I have heard a good portion of the evidence and I think her thesis is likely true. McVeigh and Nichols were morons who couldn’t get their bombs to work until Nichols visited the Philippines and somehow the hot weather or beaches improved his bomb making ability. Multiple people saw a second person with McVeigh in OKC who looked nothing like Nichols.

    2. I will go even a step farther and say that McVeigh and Nichols were specifically set up to be the fall guy for the plot. You don’t blow up a building and get away with it. Someone is going to go down. McVeigh was caught because he was pulled over for not having a license plate on his car and having a loaded piston in the back seat. Who loses the license plate on their getaway car? And who puts a gun in the back seat knowing it will get you arrested if you are pulled over but also not plan to use it and shoot your way out of trouble if you are caught?

      The only way I can explain it, is that whoever else was in on it set McVeigh up to be caught by ensuring his getaway car didn’t have a plate and there was a gun in the backseat. McVeigh obviously a bit distracted by setting off the bomb, didn’t notice it and drove off. Remember McVeigh had a father and sister alive. Nichols was married. The threat to their families was enough to keep them quiet. They were never getting out of prison and McVeigh was going to get death no matter what. So, ratting out the other conspirators would have put their families in danger and done them no good.

      1. loaded piston in the back seat

        Good to have you back (seriously!)

        1. You know what I mean.

          1. John, your take is largely in line with her argument about the roles McVeigh and Nichols played, i.e., as stooges, albeit willing stooges who really did hate the government. Anyway, it’s an interesting book if you can get past Davis’ purple prose. I’m also interested in the book McVeigh’s attorney wrote, “Others Unknown,” named after the indictment the grand jury issued after the bombing that named the two suspects and others unknown.

      2. The manager of the motel McVeigh stayed at testified that they saw the car had a Arizona tag that was about to fall off, so if true, I guess it fell off and he didn’t notice. But yes, there is the theory he wasn’t expecting to have to use it as a getaway car, that John Doe #2 abandoned him, and he originally planned to park the car next to the Ryder truck to use the extra fuel.

      3. I’m not so sure. McVeigh and the Nichols (father and son) were blowing up sod in Deckerville for several years, fixated by experiences McVeigh had had with C4 in the service. Often enough, and in ever increasing levels that neighbors were getting pissed. Once one knows the proper mixture the devastation is only limited to how many drums one can pack into a Ryder truck of that size. McVeigh himself admitted, based on the Michigan experiments, he was sure the entire block would come down, not merely the building front..
        As with most vigilante activity, much more time goes in to the act planning rather than the “what comes after” details.

    3. McVeigh and bin Laden were alike in one way–they both pretty much ruined the momentum their respective movements had with absolutely foolish acts of terrorism.

      The militia movement was rollin’–largely as a reaction against Clinton’s attempts to infringe on Second Amendment rights. That was all lost in the Oklahoma City bombing.

      Same kind of thing happened in Afghanistan. I always imagined there must have been a conversation between Sheik Omar (the head of the Taliban) and bin Laden in which Sheik Omar called bin Laden an idiot. After decades of civil war, the Taliban finally won control over Afghanistan–only to lose it because of Osama bin Laden’s stupid move against the World Trade Center.

      At the heart of a lot of conspiracy theories is the assumption that whomever benefited afterwards must have wanted what happened to happen. But after 9/11, bin Laden never achieved the power he had before 9/11 again. He had his own country! McVeigh destroyed the movement he was trying to ignite. Hitler left his country a pile of smoldering ash–divided among his foreign enemies.

      These people had enough knowledge to be dangerous, but if smart is doing something in the present to get what you want in the future, then they were all a bunch of fucking idiots.

  23. So she acknowledges that “currency is a federal responsibility” but can’t be bothered to question why the Feds have their nose in gun laws or education? Sounds to me like a tacit admission that the Feds, in fact, have no business interfering in those areas.

  24. OT: there’s a Twitter hashtag going around today for “Gun Violence Awareness”. It’s #wearingorange (no idea of the significance). Iowahawk Tweeted a pic of the Jersey Shore idiots with the #wearingorange hashtag. I Tweeted that orange is the color of Bladder Cancer Awareness, and that I wear orange every day because of that.

    If you Tweet, go Tweet something facetious about #wearingorange!

    1. Orange is the color of racist anti-Irish hate. Tweet that at them.

      1. The orangemen are anti-catholic, not anti-Irish.

    2. Fuck. I’m wearing an orange tie today (Syracuse tie!). People are going to get the wrong idea.

    3. Wearing orange makes the gun grabbing assholes easier to see. #wearingorange

      I don’t have a twitter account, but someone should tweet that.

    4. Do fluorescent orange hunting hats and jackets count?

  25. Let’s hear it for “People Who Scare Me Remind Me of Some Different People Who Scare Me” journalism.

    1. Hey! That reminds me of someone who scared me when I was 3!


      1. Hitler had a mustache. Arrest Jeff Foxworthy!

  26. I see no difference between republicans and….oh nevermind

  27. And this article wasn’t written by Shakford?

  28. Well, the left is in full blown panic mode and trying desperately, frenetically, to “astroturf” some issue their lemmings can cling to being they are currently tangled in the ropes of the white whale, Hillary.

  29. Standard boilerplate from the “liberal” Hive. (And by “liberal” I mean of course “tax-happy, coercion-addicted, power-tripping State fellator.”) With the usual translation: “Shut up, serfs, and submit.”

  30. Negative several million points for taking the SPLC seriously as a source in the first place.

  31. This is an example of why the magazine, a few years ago, was sold for less than the cost of a single issue. It hasn’t gotten any more valuable since then.

  32. Burleigh huh? Well she probably couldn’t think straight with Bill taking so much of her concentration.

  33. Nina Burleigh:

    It was the worst crime of domestically bred terrorism in American history.

    Or, as Gore Vidal put it:

    This was the greatest massacre of Americans by an American since two years earlier, when the federal government decided to take out the compound of a Seventh-Day Adventist cult near Waco, Texas.


    Of course US government massacred plains Indians and plains Indians massacred settlers in much higher numbers after the Civil War. Those darned Indians didn’t like open borders or just hadn’t had time to read Reason.

  34. “I’m tempted to respond with a fertilizer-related metaphor of my own.”

    What does Jesse Walker mean by that? The SPLC (and liberals generally) want to fertilize all of our brains, make us pregnant with their progressive ideas, perhaps?

    More colloquially… They want to fuck us all! Badly! Stoop over, break out the Vaseline! (German translation, Vaseline = “viener Schlieder”)

    1. I just dunno any moah…

      Is this (above) a shift of wit?

      Or just a wift of shit?

  35. Didn’t McVeigh, Nixon, Bush, and Bush all believe in bombings?

    1. You forgot Osama Obama, droneking, Hank.

  36. OT post: Paki politicians could FIX our USA troubles for us! See http://www.foxnews.com/world/2…..latestnews …

  37. She thinks nullification is new? The author of the Declaration of Independence and the father of the Constitution both supported nullification. Is she not not familiar with the Kentucky and Virginia Resolutions?

  38. Republicans claim he was a libertarian. You guys sure like to play hot potatoe with the various right-wing nut jobs that have come around the last 25 years or so. When is the last time a communist killed anyone in this country?

    From wiki quote page for Tim mcveigh:

    Taxes are a joke. Regardless of what a political candidate ‘promises’, they will increase. More taxes are always the answer to government mismanagement. They mess up. We suffer. Taxes are reaching cataclysmic levels, with no slowdown in sight.

    Politicians are further eroding the ‘American Dream’ by passing laws which are supposed to be a ‘quick fix’, when all they are really designed for is to get the official re-elected. These laws tend to “dilute” a problem for a while, until the problem comes roaring back in a worsened form much like a strain of bacteria will alter itself to defeat a known medication.

    Politicians are out of control. Their yearly salaries are more than an average person will see in a lifetime. They have been entrusted with the power to regulate their own salaries, and have grossly violated that trust to live in their own luxury.

    The guy would be a piker on this comment page.

    1. Hitler supported government intervention in the auto industry; ergo, if you supported the GM bailout, you’re basically Hitler, and probably want to exterminate the Jews, and need to be carefully watched.

      Man that brain tumor must really be eating its way through your hippocampus because you are significantly dumber each time I come across your comments. Good luck with that buddy.

      1. I may be dumb, but in more than 90% of my posts I use a topic sentence. Here with your post I think that I would like to respond if– and this is a big if– I could understand what you are arguing for or against.

        1. My comment above also applies to “American socialist”:

          ” . . . .the usual translation: ‘Shut up, serfs, and submit.'”

  39. More…

    Letter to John J. LaFalce (16 February 1992).
    Should any other person or governing body be able to tell another person that he/she cannot save their own life, because it would be a violation of a law?
    I strongly believe in a God-given right to self-defense.
    It is a lie if we tell ourselves that the police can protect us everywhere, at all times. Firearms restrictions are bad enough, but now a woman can’t even carry Mace in her purse?
    I’m the NRA.

  40. What is with Progs fascination with militias? They call the people in them racist crazy bigots, yet whenever someone points to the Second Amendment they claim it was only for militias, not for people. This doublethink flies well over their heads apparently.

  41. So,. basically what she’s saying is: Hitler was a vegetarian; ergo, vegetarians are annihilationist anti-semites.

    Or, Hitler was a (national) socialist, ergo socialists are annihilationist anti-semites.

  42. Commie kid is not sentient, he be trollin’.

    Like Tonypoo, his best tactic is dead thread-fucking.

  43. What you call “deeply confused”, I call “deliberately mendacious.”


  44. Google pay 97$ per hour my last pay check was $8500 working 1o hours a week online. My younger brother friend has been averaging 12k for months now and he works about 22 hours a week. I cant believe how easy it was once I tried it out.
    This is wha- I do…… ?????? http://www.jobnet20.com

  45. Google pay 97$ per hour my last pay check was $8500 working 1o hours a week online. My younger brother friend has been averaging 12k for months now and he works about 22 hours a week. I cant believe how easy it was once I tried it out.
    This is wha- I do…… ?????? http://www.www.jobnet20.com

  46. Nathaniel . although Stephanie `s rep0rt is super… I just bought a top of the range Mercedes sincee geting a check for $4416 this last four weeks and would you believe, ten/k last-month . no-doubt about it, this really is the best-job I’ve ever done . I actually started seven months/ago and almost straight away started making a nice over $79.. p/h….. ?????? http://www.worksite90.com

  47. Nathaniel . although Stephanie `s rep0rt is super… I just bought a top of the range Mercedes sincee geting a check for $4416 this last four weeks and would you believe, ten/k last-month . no-doubt about it, this really is the best-job I’ve ever done . I actually started seven months/ago and almost straight away started making a nice over $79.. p/h….. ?????? http://www.worksite90.com

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