Obamacare

On Obamacare, It's the President Who Refuses to Embrace Reality

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Obamacare turns five years old this week, and to mark the occasion, President Obama took after critics of the health law, noting their ongoing opposition while briefly laying out the reasons he believes it to be a success. "It's time to embrace reality," he said, according to The Hill.

The president ticked off a string of points in support of the law: an additional 16 million insured, 50,000 fewer preventable deaths, slow growth in health premium costs, and lower deficit projections as a result.

The law, he said, is "working even better than expected."

One could reasonably quibble with much of this, because not all of the points President Obama cited are clearly or fully attributable to Obamacare.

Health spending growth, for example, is indeed down, and this is driving much of the decline in the deficit, but at least a sizable portion of the decline—perhaps most of it—can be attributed to the recession. One study in Health Affairs last year concluded that about 70 percent of the health spending slowdown is a result of the economy, not any structural changes to health care delivery. Obamacare may be due some credit, but not too much.

Similarly, it's true that a government report estimated that between 2010 and 2013, deaths from "hospital-acquired conditions" were reduced by about 50,000. But it's hard to fully pin this on Obamacare when the report states up front that "the precise causes of the decline in patient harm are not fully understood." 

Meanwhile, the 16 million insured figure comes from a March report by the Department of Health and Human Services, and it is a total of those who gained coverage through Obamacare's exchanges, Medicaid, employment, and the individual market place, which means it's not wholly attributable to the law. And it tallies those who signed up for coverage rather than those "effectuated enrollment"—those who have already paid their premiums. The actual number is probably not too far off from what President Obama stated, but, once again, Obamacare isn't the entire story here.

So Obama is overstating the case, and, of course, leaving out points against the law.

For example: About half of the people who received subsidies through the law last year will have to pay them back through their taxes this year, according to a Kaiser Family Foundation study this week. On average, those who owe will have to pay a little more than a quarter of their subsidy back. A few will have to pay back the entire subsidy.

On the flip side, a little less than half will end up getting money back, but even that will be complicated by the fact that the federal government and California, which runs the biggest state exchange, sent out nearly a million tax forms related to the health law with incorrect information, leading the administration to ask many to delay filing their taxes as a result. California has already issued 120,000 correct tax forms, but there are still "tens of thousands" who haven't gotten updated forms, according to the L.A. Times.

Whitehouse.gov

Beyond that, there are additional questions about whether the Internal Revenue Service is even equipped to handle all the new paperwork required by the law. According to the Chicago Tribune, roughly a quarter of tax filers will have extra filing requirements due to the health law.

And then there are the poll numbers for the law, which is still unpopular, just as it has been throughout the five years it has been law. Polls differ on the exact contours of public opinion about the law, but all the polls in the Real Clear Politics opinion survey show that oppositions outweighs support by at least seven points; on average, the opposition is 10.5 points higher than the support.

If the law is truly working so well for so many people, if it is, as Obama has now taken to saying, working better than expected or anticipated, then why does it remain so stubbornly unpopular?

When the law was being debated in Congress, many supporters of the law argued that it would grow popular once it passed. When that didn't happen, Obamacare backers insisted that it polled poorly because the major benefits had yet to kick in.  When the major benefits kicked in, they argued that the botched launch of the exchanges was killing support.

These excuses no longer work. The coverage expansion has arrived, and while the precise numbers aren't clear, there's no denying that far more people are covered now than two years ago. The exchanges are still incomplete on the back end, but the consumer-facing part of the system works well enough. The health insurance subsidies have arrived, and are being doled out to millions, and so have the insurance rules restricting insurers from charging or denying coverage based on preexisting conditions.

Obamacare's major benefits have gone into effect and had time to work their way through the system—and yet the law remains widely disliked. Obama's message about the law, meanwhile, remains the same as always: It's great, and people should stop resisting and recognize how great it is.

After five years, in other words, President Obama has not changed his message, even in the face of consistent broad public opposition, even as the various theories for why it remains unpopular have fallen away. Obamacare is simply not well liked. This is the political reality—and President Obama still refuses to embrace it. 

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  1. The presudent expected Obamacare to suck worse than this?

    1. I’m sure he did. Serving the interests of the medical industry while pretending to offer the people something vaguely like Single Payer was quite an accomplishment. It is not easy to get a self-contradictory plan to work at all, much less work well.

      1. Speaking of self-contradictory plans, there is no such thing as “Single Payer”.

  2. But its his signature achievement. If Obamacare is a disaster, that means his Presidency is a disaster and only a racist would think that.

    Meanwhile, from the the God really does have a sense of humor department, it looks like Bob Menendez might be the deciding vote on Loretta’ Lynch’s confirmation as AG.

    http://www.northjersey.com/new…..-1.1294198

    1. I find her last name to be triggering. She should be forced to change it.

      1. You know what’s funny? That the University of North Dakota had to drop Fighting Sioux because it appropriated the word Sioux, and yet it didn’t have to drop the word Dakota.

        1. What’s wrong with a state named after Dakota Fanning?

          1. Does her name offend Native Americans?

            1. “Fanning” is the Lakota word for “taint.”

              1. Dear Lord. I bet she avoids the entire region, being a walking insult like that.

              2. Taint Fanning ?

              3. haint

        2. North Florida is still available. That would do wonders for their tourism industry.

          1. I look forward to the adventures of North Florida Man.

            1. Obviously, North Florida n?e North Dakota will have to make some adjustments to become more Florida-like.

              1. Sure, they’ll be some frozen bodies at first.

          2. And I’d certainly enjoy the confusion caused by changing South Dakota to South Florida. 🙂

    2. didn’t Menendez already “invite” a federal investigation for daring to notice the Emperor’s nakedness re: the Iran deal?

    3. I make up to usd90 an hour working from my home. My story is that I quit working at Walmart to work online and with a little effort I easily bring in around $40h to usd86h Someone was good to me by sharing this link with me, so now i am hoping i could help someone else out there by sharing this link……… Try it, you won’t regret it!… http://www.jobs-check.com

  3. If you don’t support Obamacare then you want people to die. It’s that simple.

    1. If Obamacare fans go first, I might not be entirely opposed.

  4. After five years, in other words, President Obama has not changed his message, even in the face of consistent broad public opposition, even as the various theories for why it remains unpopular have fallen away. Obamacare is simply not well liked. This is the political reality?and President Obama still refuses to embrace it.

    That is because Obama doesn’t give a fuck Peter. He never has and he never will. He doesn’t have to give a fuck. What does he care if a bunch of typical white people lose their insurance or can’t afford health care? Since he can’t run for re-election, what possible reason does he have to care about the electoral fortunes of the Democrats in 2016?

    It is almost cute how people like Suderman actually think Obama cares whether this thing worked or about the welfare of the country or anything but himself. He got his signature achievement and gets to say he made history. If that program proves to do harm or not be popular, well that is not Obama’s problem and none of those people who are unhappy or worthy of him anyway. This is how Obama thinks Peter.

    1. Obama, the entire modern progressive movement and many other people inside the beltway believe in magical thinking. They honestly believe if they pass a law it is the same as waving a magic wand, uttering an incantation, and voila – problem solved. They have no experience in the real world and it is baffling to them to hear that things don’t work that way – so they ignore it. It isn’t about results it is about intentions – or as sarcasmic has so often and eloquently pointed out, it is about feelings and emotions. It makes them feel good so it is good, regardless of the consequences.

      1. That pretty much sums them up.

      2. This. Laws and regulation are MAGIC. There is no such thing as an unintended consequence.

      3. Laws are so magical that the 1996 Australian gun control laws caused gun murders to fall since 1971.

      4. As Ross Perot said, “when a politician says he is for or against something he actually thinks he has accomplished something.

        Every time there is a terror attack somewhere the days the Pols on both sides of the Ocean try to be the first to say they “condem such actions” as though the words themselves will fix the problem.

        1. That is the essence of political reality in a democracy. A politician is what he says. Later, something may happen because of what the politicians said, but it often bears little resemblance either to reality, reason, or the things said about them originally.

  5. …even as the various theories for why it remains unpopular have fallen away.

    That just leaves the House GOP and its stranglehold over the media and message.

  6. I was at the gym yesterday and one of the TVs was set to MSNBC. They’re normally on ESPN so I didn’t think to change it before I started working out. It was Ed Schultz and then Al Sharpton. Even without audio, it was the smuggest, most “here is your enemy, look how stupid and evil they are” shit I’ve ever seen. I mean it was really bad. And they were harping on how successful the ACA has been, how many jobs it’s created, and how nasty and dishonest and vicious those evil Republicans are for opposing it. The talking points were issued yesterday for this.

    1. I hope you treated the television screen to an extra intimidating gun show.

      1. BUNS OUT GUNS OUT

        1. Which locker room did you use?

          1. The one for cis shitlords.

        2. I think the Duck Dynasty guys started out doing actual Duck Hunting shows. Imagine turning one of those on in your typical Seattle or Portland gym. Guns, scary looking white men killing cute birds and talking about Jesus. If that should have a trigger warning, nothing should.

          1. John, if you actually think that having Duck Dynasty on in the gym in Seattle would bother anyone, you need to rethink your absurd stereotypes.

            1. Perhaps Portland then. It sure as hell would drive the people in Suburban Washington to a case of the vapors. I didn’t realize Seattle was much different.

              1. John, have you even ever been to Seattle, or to non-Seattle Washington? Because I don’t even know what you’re talking about. You do realize that Washington outside of Seattle (and that’s more “core” Seattle) is very rural and “red”?

                1. Yep, I visited my friend out in Seattle in the early ’90’s. We went camping about 2 hours outside of Seattle and every road sign had multiple gunshots in them.

            2. And if it wouldn’t, what was the point of your “BUNS OUT GUNS OUT” comment? I thought that was you saying they would all faint over the sight of a gun.

              1. Oh, no, I meant I would show my ass and my “guns”. Basically I was saying I would moon people.

                1. Ah, okay. I totally understood that.

                  1. come on, John. Guns in a gym is arms.

                    1. John ain’t know about that. He naturally has 6% body fat and is totally ripped and he doesn’t even work out or eat vegetables or ANYTHING.

              2. Portland is the most redneck, racist place on the West Coast.

                Good food trucks though.

                1. Then how the fuck do they come up with the Governor they just booted out and such gems as the “cover Oregon ” bullshit video ?

                2. So you’re saying I belong in Portland?

    2. You and the other people in the Gym were likely a measurable percentage of Special Ed’s audience. The crazier they get, the more isolated they become. The more isolated they become, the crazier and more hate filled they get.

      We are likely seeing the start of a death spiral where the stupidity feeds on itself and drives more and more people away leaving the ones remaining more and more stupid which in turn drives more people away.

    3. Al Sharpton is the dumbest man in the universe. Have I told you about the time I saw an Al Sharpton episode where he claimed the US has a higher poverty rate than Uzbekistan? Immediately I knew the mistake he’d made, namely that the US and Uzbekistan have different poverty rates because the rate differs by a country’s relative income. The US poverty rate is actually like 5X higher than Uzbekistan’s AVERAGE INCOME, which means that the average Uzbekistani is living well below the American poverty rate.

      Sharpton is retarded though, so he did not understand this basic math.

      1. Sharpton is Charlie Rangel, without the charm.

      2. The left has equated inequality with poverty. As long as there are rich people then there will be poverty. Get rid of the rich people and there will be no more poverty.

        1. We have passed hundreds of laws to redistribute wealthy from the 1% to the poorest in the US yet, 20% of Americans are still in the bottom quintile! Obviously, we need more wealthy distribution until we shrink the size of the bottom quintile!

          /prog

          1. Well played

            1. Exactly….mathtards…

      3. He looks like he’s dying. Wonder how much time he has left.

        1. Too much.

      4. Who ARE the people who actually listen to Rev Al. ?

        I have never met one in person but maybe that is because I live in Texas.

    4. It’s all about intentions. Obamacare is intended to bring health care to the great unwashed masses. Anyone who opposes it intends to take health care away from people, which makes them a bad person.

      1. Just call it “deregulation”.

        That’s what liberals do? they call things where the government sets complex rules to control how something operates “deregulatiion” and then blame deregulation when the system falls apart and say that’s why industry needs regulated.

        1. So true. We needz morz rederegulation…RDR, baby….

  7. It’s a law so great, they had to lie to get it passed. I love the magically touted slow down in the increase in medical insurance. Last I checked, he and his ilk promised a decline and that the average family would save $2500.

    More people have insurance that isn’t actually insurance and that they can’t really afford to use. Hurray. Alls it took was law mandating it to be so or face the wrath of the IRS…after they tried to tell us it wasn’t a tax, either.

    1. It’s a law so greatprogressive idea, they had to lie to get it passed.

    2. There are certain “life events” which make one immnue to the penatax.

      Receiving a disconnect notice from your elecrtrical provider is one such life event I have read.

      A disconnect notice is easy to manufacture.

  8. I don’t know why they’re counting new (not previous medicaid beneficiaries who were merely moved up?) medicaid enrollees as among who are “insured”. Medicaid is not insurance, no one covered by that is paying premiums. I certainly don’t. And some of the people who bought plans at the exchange had to upgrade after their plan was cancelled.

    It seems to me that there’s no decrease premiums or healthcare spending. What’s coming down is growth in spending. The CBO says premiums aren’t “rising” as fast as they projected (and slightly less people purchased insurance as they thought) so they don’t have to dole out as much subsidies. That counts as “saving”.

    Obamacare would be as popular as Kim Jong Un if EVERYONE had to purchase insurance. It gets like 45% support because of the free stuff.

    1. +8%

      1. Fuzzy math….

  9. “If the law is truly working so well for so many people, if it is, as Obama has now taken to saying, working better than expected or anticipated, then why does it remain so stubbornly unpopular?”

    Because of the Koch Brothers, of course. Everything the left dislikes and doesn’t understand is directly attributable to the Kochtopus.

  10. The thing that irks me the most about this law – duh – is the mandate. Being forced (thank you, “Penaltax” Roberts) to purchase something I may or may not want sticks in my craw. And then, on top of that, is the weird minimum requirements of the coverage – a whole treasure trove of goodies that I would have no use for.

    I am currently receiving my insurance through the company I work for – but this law makes me fear going on my own, either as partially retired or working as a self-employed consultant. My income, in those cases, would vary greatly year by year which would change the subsidy amount. It would make planning for the future difficult if I didn’t have a set cost.

    1. Avoid the penaltax by getting a disconnect letter from you electric company. (verify that as truth beforehand)

      Don’t buy insurance unless you get real sick and then buy it outside the “market place”. When the open enrollment period comes around then sign up through the website if you need the subsidy to live.

      It’s coniving, yes. But it is one way to fight back against the monster if you truely want to go out on your own.

      1. From what I see, getting a disconnect notice isn’t enough–your service has to actually be disconnected. And even then, you can only discount each month of disconnection, not the whole year, so you have to calculate how much you can exempt. On top of that, there’s more paperwork to file and you have to get the approval for the exemption.

        In short, it’s crap!

  11. The law, he said, is “working even better than expected.”

    depends on how you define better, I suppose, and what your expectations were. It is a meaningless statement. Then again, Obama said it so nothing new there.

  12. The left is called that because they’ve left reality far behind.

  13. 50,000 fewer preventable deaths

    I want to see the data on this. Names would be nice, too.

    1. It’s in the column next to the one showing jobs created or saved.

    2. I doubt “hospital acquired conditions” are tied to insurance in any way. How could insurance or the lack of insurance keep one from acquiring a condition while in a hospital? Seems that more of a risk management issue than an insurance issue. But stupid people will believe.

  14. and it is a total of those who gained coverage through Obamacare’s exchanges, Medicaid, employment, and the individual market place, which means it’s not wholly attributable to the law.

    I’m on Obamacare, after getting kicked off private insurance. Do I get thrown into the “add” column?

    1. he finds your lack of faith disturbing.

    2. Yes. Duh.

    3. You’re like a hero, Paul.

      Is Obamacare going to be for health insurance what Citizen’s is for homeowner’s insurance in Florida? Because that’s bad news.

  15. Listen to you, Peter!

    Health care costs are coming down, but not all due to ACA. Uninsured number is being reduced, but not all due to the ACA. Number of deaths from hospital acquired conditions reduced, but not all due to the ACA.

    And all from the guy who predicted nothing but disaster from all corners regarding the ACA…uninsured would stay the same, health care costs would increase because of it, and more people would susceptible to less health care coverage. Well, its good to see you in fact recognizing reality rather than those silly predictions you made.

    And opinion on the ACA? That too is getting better.

    “Public opinion on the Affordable Care Act (ACA) remains divided as the fifth anniversary of its passage nears, but the opinion gap has narrowed a bit, according to a new tracking poll released Thursday by the Kaiser Family Foundation. Results…show that 41% of Americans have a favorable opinion of the ACA, while 43% have an unfavorable opinion, the closest margin the poll has found in more than 2 years.”

    http://www.ajmc.com/focus-of-the-week…..ut-Less-So

    And regardless of opinion, here is the sad fact that will have to also accept reality on. Every single poll taken shows Americans DO NOT favor full repeal with no replacement. So government effort to fixing and improving health care in this country is here to stay…much to your chagrin.

    1. I’m an American, and I favor full repeal. I would like some legislation further untangling the government from health insurance and medical services, but that’s likely a separate matter.

      1. My only point then would be you are in the minority. Most Americans do not favor simple repeal with no replacement.

        1. I don’t pretend to speak for most Americans, but I’ve been royally screwed by this law, with premiums increased around 50%, claims being denied that used to not be, and deductibles more than doubled. And that should go for most people paying for private insurance through their employer, which is still a majority in this country.

          I actually don’t know a single person, left or right-leaning, affluent or not, who is personally anything other than dissatisfied with the current state of health insurance. It’s a huge mess.

          1. I disagree. I know small business owners who all have used the ACA and like it. But that is here in New York.

            1. I know small business owners who all have used the ACA and like it. But that is here in New York.

              What parts of “the ACA” have they “used” and what it did they “like”?

              1. They have used the marketplace in New York, and have been able to get plans for their employees with better coverage, and cheaper as well. Its worked quite well here.

                1. Better and cheaper relative to what? What was their situation pre-ACA? Did they shop around for plans before? If not, why not?

                  1. They did indeed, but they did not have as many choices. One thing the marketplace did in NY is create easy comparison shopping, which had an effect in 2 ways…yes, customers could easily compare costs, but it also forced those offering plans to sharpen their pencils as well. And new providers entered as well. It has all been about competition.

                    1. You going to provide some examples of these unicorns? With all these great bargains, surely you can point to some of them so we can take advantage of them.

                    2. Uh, New York’s health insurance market was the very worst in the country, due entirely to state legislation. Obamacare overruled that.

                      So, yeah. You found the one state where people can say what you claim.

                    3. Thanks!

                  2. Here is an article from the end of last year, http://www.nydailynews.com/lif…..-1.2013344

                    Note there were 11 different sources, as well as one new one, Wellpoint.

                    1. Another one:

                      http://www.crainsnewyork.com/a…..llion-mark

                      “A November survey of 250 New Yorkers, conducted by Harris Poll on behalf of the New York State Health Foundation, found that 92% of those surveyed were completely or somewhat satisfied with the insurance obtained through the marketplace.”

                      Its worked very well.

                    2. Its worked very well.

                      …because New York was so very screwed up.

                    3. First time I’ve heard that…..from NYC anyway….

                    4. This dipshit touts a failed fed policy because it’s better than a failed NY state policy…brilliant.

                      He also ignores the fact the few states that the most fucked up regulations are the few states that like Obamacare and that’s a few northeastern states run by progs.

                      That’s faint praise jackass.

                    5. Migrant Log Picker|3.25.15 @ 3:02AM|#
                      “This dipshit touts a failed fed policy because it’s better than a failed NY state policy…brilliant.”

                      If this dipshit can’t pick cherries, he’ll have no data at all.

                    6. Another goody:

                      The New York State of Health marketplace announced Wednesday that cumulative enrollment in both Medicaid and private health insurance plans totaled 2,004,827 individuals … there are just two weeks left in the enrollment period and fewer than 133,000 private plans have been purchased so far.

                      So 1.8 million people (90%) are now on Medicaid. And I’m sure it’s just coincidence that that “nearly 90% of New York enrollees lacked health coverage before signing up for Obamacare”.

                      MISSION ACCOMPLISHED!

                    7. A goody indeed. Less people uninsured, whether through Medicaid or private plans….the primary objective of the ACA. Its worked very well here.

                    8. You got 1.8 million people to sign up for Medicaid, which they could have done anyway because Medicaid has been around for 50 years. Then you survey them and they all “love” it because they’ve never actually gone to a doctor and tried to use their “coverage”. They will just show up at the ER like they have been for the past 30 years under EMTALA. Meanwhile 150,000 people lost their old coverage and had to sign up for shittier, more expensive coverage that they don’t like. And you hold that up as a sign of victory.

                      You have a shriek-like inability to read and understand your own links and can’t seem to think beyond the talking points.

                    9. Don’t scare him with the big picture….snapshots is all they like…

                    10. Medicaid is no better and possibly a whole lot worse than having no insurance at all. And that is at least half of the expansion in coverage that you think means anything at all.

                      I sure am glad we piss away $450BB a year on such a wonderful program!

                    11. From your own link:

                      Expect to see some high deductibles. A study conducted last year by HealthPocket found that the average entry-level bronze plan had a deductible of $5,081, 42% higher than the average for the 2013, pre-health-reform market.

                      Whoo! I get to pay $500/mo for the privilege of paying out of pocket any time I need to see the doctor! I bet the coinsurance and co-pays are just wonderful, too.

                    12. You have been paying more for insurance for decades…has nothing to do with the ACA. And regardless of deductibles, note the favorability…over 90%. Which was my point to begin with…I know small businesses as well as individuals here in NY who are very happy with the ACA.

                    13. You have been paying more for insurance for decades

                      Ah good now you’ve shifted to just plain, flat-out lying.

                    14. To Jackand Ace: Nobama operative *cough**cough* Nice try, but FAIL!!!

                    15. And remember, one of the rationales for Obamacare was that we needed to kill those “junk” policies that had such high deductibles that they dissuaded people from seeing the doctor. And that’s exactly what Obamacare has become.

                    16. Exactly…..our patient load has never been lower….and in a growing market. Many people are trying to find care outside of the insurance based markets. I smell an opportunity. Perhaps Ocare is the best thing to happen to healthcare in the long run. But there is gonna be some pain to get us there.

                    17. It canceled my OK insurance with a $2700 deductible and an $83/mo premium and tried to replace it with insurance that had a $4000 deductible and a $165/mo premium or a $2500 deductible and $245/mo premium. It was basically “If you like your current insurance, fuck you.”

          2. I am near 80% premium increase in two years, kicked off a plan I had that I liked (over 10 years), 135% increase in annual out-of-pocket expenses (in one year), a whole list of crap I can’t get with my own money out of my HSA (if I was ready to sign up for that disaster), I’m absolutely not willing to give my health record access to the IRS so I can apply for subsidies (not to mention that I’m opposed anyway), I’ve been lied to and screwed six ways to Sunday by every politician and proponent of this disaster since the beginning, and I’m just supposed to ignore that history??

            Because, “Whoooeee! It’s even better than we thought!!!; oh. and FYTW…”

            Wow, just wow..

            1. Exactly. This is becoming the status quo now. Time for a reset.

    2. And I might add that there was a clear choice in front of the American people in 2012…full repeal on day one of the next administration or keep on keepin’ on. And keep on keepin’ on won. Lets see you run on just full repeal again…who knows…Ted Cruz might get that chance. Ha!

      1. bullshit. There would have been no repeal because the Dem majority in the Senate would not have allowed it. Please

        1. I didn’t say it, the GOP candidate said it.

          “The Supreme Court may have made their decision, but the American people haven’t. Day one. Job one. Repeal ObamaCare.”

          http://thehill.com/video/campa…..-obamacare

          Job one, first act…and he lost. Read it and weep.

          1. I’ll type slower: There would have been no repeal because the Dem majority in the Senate would not have allowed it.

            What Romney said was immaterial. So, no, there was no clear choice on that front in 2012.

            1. Maybe you should try reading slower, or doing a bit more research. In that election, 33 seats were up for grabs in the Senate, with 21 of them incumbent Democrats. So you see, the entire election was a referendum on Obamacare….and you STILL lost.

              1. Meanwhile, on planet earth, elections are almost never referenda on single pieces of legislation.

                1. It was the prime issue the GOP ran on…day one, first act.

                  1. Except for the fact that Romney couldn’t make a solid argument opposed to Oblamocare, because he was saddled with implementing Masscare (one of the main conservative arguments against the GOP establishment picking him).
                    Plus a whole lot of fraud.

            2. What Romney said was immaterial mendacious*, designed to please voters even though he knew that repeal wouldn’t get through the Senate.

            3. Don’t waste your time. He knows all that, but it’s election time again, so more propaganda.

              1. Peter said it above, so unless he is a propagandist, you might want to listen…health care costs have slowed, uninsured number has come down, and other health benefits have accrued as well. The best he now has is that it all is not due to the ACA. Fairly weak response.

                1. No health benefits have accrued that can be directly attributed. Costs have not slowed beyond what they were doing prior to the birth of this abomination, and yes we are spending even more money to insure more people on a system that in many cases is more likely to kill them than having no insurance at all.

                  Fuck, it’s straight out of Pravda Comrade.

                2. What’s “slowed” is an increase in spending. It’s not an actual decrease in spending. That’s now the CBO counted future Obamacare savings – premiums aren’t going up as fast as they thought so, they don’t have to pay as much subsidies.

                  Medicaid is not insurance. Was my family “insured’ before medicaid expansion in CA, because they enrolled in Healthyway LA? And medicaid don’t mean a thing if a hospital doesn’t accept patients and offer services covered by medicaid.

                  Keep in mind that some people were eligible even before medicaid expansion and others were automatically enrolled from previous state ran programs.Lots of people had their plans cancelled and had to upgrade. Those are not net gains.

                  My whole family is on medicaid, so we already experienced the waiting game. Even the state’s lib papers are beginning to see problems.

                  http://www.latimes.com/opinion…..story.html

                  http://www.mercurynews.com/hea…..low-income

                  I mean, if someone wants to give me free stuff, I’ll take it. But I don’t pay for not, not a cent (barring some copays). Do you see a problem with the government paying for healthcare for people who earn close to nothing and contribute little to their own healthcare? Not even Canada does that.

              2. This almost makes me miss joe in the way I almost miss intestinal worms.

                Who am I kidding? I miss the worms more.

      2. FIVE YEAR PLAN GLORIOUS SUCCESS COMRADES! MOAR TRAKTORZ THAN EVAH!

      3. Jackand Ace: Hey worm, I am not a fascist, forcing people to pay for a product is FASCISM you statist nitwit, my brother lost his insurance because of that idea you think is so great, so kindly take the ACA and shove it up your jack boot loving, brown shirt wearing ass.

        1. ^^^^^^ This. Irrespective of what statistics you cite regarding the effects of the ACA, to declare that, simply because you exist, you *must* purchase something, whether you need it or not, is nothing short of oppressive.

    3. Post under your real handle, you timorous worm.

      1. …said “sugar free.”

        1. I think SugarFree is his real handle. He’s been posting under that name for years. Well, that name and Episiarch.

          1. Then if that is the criteria mine is just as real…its the only handle I have posted under here since the beginning.

          2. He doesn’t know the difference between and handle and a legal name, yet presumes to lecture us on his beloved’s signature piece of shit.

            1. It is Joe. I feel like Roy Schider in Jaws II. Its a nasty, urban planning midget, I am telling you. Close the beaches!!

    4. Fuck off Joe. You cowardly, malignant midget.

      1. …said the one with so much courage…behind his keyboard.

        1. You ran off and hid because you didn’t want to take the beating your so richly deserved because Obama was everything you claimed he wasn’t. Now you return and try and pretend no one will notice.

          You are just a special breed of stupidity, malace and smugness. You can’t hide it completely no matter how you try

          1. I think Joe ran off and hid because he was unemployed in Massachusetts, and he knew staying meant jettisoning his smugness. It’s easier to be smug while teaching the children to hate their wealthy parents at a private school.

            1. Maybe so. But he has come crawling back. I called it before anyone else. It took me a bit but eventually it hit me who Jackland Ace really was.

              1. What was his original username?

                1. It was Joe or Joe Boyle, and then later it was Joe From Lowell.

        2. AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

          joe, you are as pathetic–if not more pathetic–than Tulpa. What wonderful company you keep, you pathetic little shit.

          1. I told told you guys it was him.

            1. Jackland Ace is Joe? I started using the notJoe handle years ago because that mendacious pos used to drive me nuts.

              Hello Joe! You’re still as ignorant as you ever were.

              1. He was and is the worst.

          2. They took Venezuela away from him, so this is what he has left.

        3. Hey joe, remember that time you threatened to punch SugarFree in the face? Good times. Hey, would you like to come punch me in the face? Come on, it’ll be fun. I’ll even buy your Greyhound ticket for you.

          1. Every time I see a small child making a fist, I think of joe.

    5. Health care costs are coming down

      No, the rate at which healthcare costs are increasing is merely slowing for now.

      And opinion on the ACA? That too is getting better.

      Yeah, and so long as pressure is not continually increased, you eventually get used to the feeling of thumbscrews digging into your knuckles.

    6. Citing the American Journal of Managed Care?

      You do realize that everyone in managed care benefits from Obamacare?

    7. Re: Jackass Ass,

      Health care costs are coming down, but not all due to ACA.

      Who told you that Health care costs are coming down? Thanks to the ACA, my FSA was capped to $2,500 which translates to an automatic tax increase and a subsequent increase in my healthcare costs for the year, since 2013.

      I would understand it if you were simply an idiot, but you’re not an idiot – you’re a fucking liar; just another little red Marxian and a liar.

    8. It hasn’t even been fully implemented, yet.
      The really bad things have been put off by Oblamo or were written in to come out after he was out of office, like the employer mandate and the 40% Cadillac tax.
      When those hit, a whole bunch of people, who have thus far been untouched by the law, will be getting some negative results and those favorable/unfavorable numbers will turn, drastically towards unfavorable.

  16. After five years, in other words, President Obama has not changed his message, even in the face of consistent broad public opposition, even as the various theories for why it remains unpopular have fallen away.

    Uh… Would you?

    Until you’ve walked a mile in a mendacious* politician’s shoes, you have no right to judge.

    * Is there any other kind?

  17. Pathetic grasping at straws.

    The law is relatively unpopular because there is a political industry dedicated to calling it evil. That has an effect, and Republicans are good at it, if nothing else.

    1. If only the people knew how much the great father Obama cared for them. Yeah, the industry bent on destroy Obama is so effective, it managed to get him elected twice.

      It is unpopular because it is a hugely evil program that has harmed the lives on millions of people. I suppose it is easier for you to believe it is all just the result of evil wreckers and lies than facing the fact that your entire life has been wasted in dedication to a dying and discredited ideology. So whatever gets you through the night sweetheart.

      1. If the law hurt more people than it helped, or hurt people at all to a significant degree, it would have been a failed effort. Luckily the actual world and the FOX News misinformation bubble you live in do not inhabit the same space.

        1. Re: Tony,

          If the law hurt more people than it helped, or hurt people at all to a significant degree, it would have been a failed effort.

          It is a failed effort. It pleases no one, not even little red Marxians who want fully sovietized medicine. It didn’t decrease costs, it didn’t insure the number of people it purported to insure (not even close) and the exchanges have been a disaster.

          Of course it is easier for you to blame free speech for the lack of popularity for this monstrosity.

        2. Which clearly explains 2010 and 2014. We’re at a multi-decade highwater mark in the number of Team Red office holders. Yeah, real popular.

          1. It’s not cool to boast about cheating to win. Just take the win and hope people forget about the cheating.

            1. Tony|3.25.15 @ 12:27AM|#
              “It’s not cool to boast about cheating to win. Just take the win and hope people forget about the cheating.”

              Still repeating that lie, you piece of shit? Not surprising.

        3. Tony the idiot returns. The medical industry was FOR THIS BILL AND LOBBIED FOR IT. Nice try, jerk off.

    2. Why is it that so many people who claim to be for the people and against the corporations shill for a law that fucked the people to benefit (some of) the corporations?

      Like you, for example.

      1. I think I’m pretty clear in my support of getting capitalism out of healthcare.

        1. You’re “pretty clear” in your lack of principles or really any coherent ideology except “might makes right”.

        2. That only proves that you don’t work in healthcare.

        3. So you’d prefer? rent seeking instead of profit seeking? 😀

          1. I said get capitalism out. The private-sector half of rent-seeking, who is blameless in the matter no doubt.

            1. Without capitalism, there is no healthcare sector, you drooling moron. Collectivized “healthcare” = standing in line waiting to get a number and never getting any actual healthcare.

        4. Re: Tony,

          I think I’m pretty clear in my support of getting capitalism out of healthcare.

          You mean business, not capitalism. You still need Capital to run a healthcare system, whether your mental masturbations show otherwise or not.

          1. Capital yes, not the ism.

            1. And the capital is raised, how? On the good intentions and wishful thinking of fairies and kittens?

              1. By thugs with guns. Tony loves ’em.
                Tony has no points he can sell with persuasion, so it’s guns.

      2. I pissed many a prog off by asking them why they would curse the evil corporations with one breath and then champion a law that made it illegal to not buy the products of the second most ( oil #1) evil of corporations and without price controls.

        Much sputtering and frothing at the mouth ensued.

        1. ACA is an acceptable improvement on the prior status quo to people who are forgiving of the legislative realpolitik it took to achieve it. It deservedly has critics who say it’s too much of a giveaway to industry. Pity that American domestic realpolitik means giving shit away to industries that fund campaigns. Who are the most outspoken proponents of the underpinnings of this system again?

          1. Uh, you?

    3. “Derp derp derp derpy derp derpity derp.” –Tony

    4. I used to know a Tony. He was really super herpy derpy. In fact, anytime he wasn’t herping and derping, or torturing small animals for his own amusement, or carrying out some other sociopathic behavior, he was always spouting off some misanthropic garbage just exactly like you do. You wouldn’t be that same Tony would you? You must be the same person. If not you have an equally evil and worthless doppelganger running around under the same name.

      1. To live these days means to swim in a sea of derp, surrounded by derp penetrated, over and over again, by its mucous. Its works and laws and regulations are reflections of its disease.

        On every message board, nothing but derp.

      2. I’m terribly nonpsychopathic in that way. I wouldn’t harm a fly. I feel terrible remorse if I were ever to destroy one of the idiot squirrels who run in front of my tires. I do obliterate spiders without prejudice, but I recognize that as the consequence of phobia.

        I have misanthropic tendencies but my politics are decidedly empathetic. It’s not an uncommon contradiction in liberals.

        1. Your self diagnosis is strangely troubling, and decidedly idiotic.

        2. I do obliterate spiders without prejudice, but I recognize that as the consequence of phobia.

          Not surprising to me to see that your irrationality extends to daily life. Most spiders and species of spiders in the US are harmless and far more afraid of you than you are of them. In fact, I don’t think I’ve ever encountered one – not even black widows – that didn’t run when approached. Bet you just love you some of them big ol’ “general” cockroaches, though. Huh?

    5. Re: Tony,

      The law is relatively unpopular because there is a political industry dedicated to calling it evil.

      So the culprit is free speech.

      I just knew you would come out and say it clearly one of these days.

      1. Indeed it is. Duplicitous corporate whores pandering to their ever-dwindling base of angry morons with Orwellian bullshit and scaremongering lies have free speech rights too.

        1. Those “corporate whores” helped write the bill and get it passed. Are you really this fucking retarded? Does your mom have to change your diapers all the time?

          1. No, he’s that dishonest.

  18. The coverage expansion has arrived, and while the precise numbers aren’t clear, there’s no denying that far more people are covered now than two years ago.

    So what? It’s ridiculous to equate health insurance with health CARE. That kind of thinking is what got us in this mess to begin with. And it’s what will keep us there under the ACA.

    1. Why should we even equate success with health care? It should be equated with whether people got what they wanted. You can’t equate with the feel-goodiness of people ‘getting what they need’ because everyone has a different idea of what that means.

      Anyway, I’m just going to purchase a Christian health share until I graduate next year. Those things have a pretty sweet payment system.

      1. I’m not suggesting that, either. I’m simply pointing out the fallacy of declaring the ACA a success because suddenly millions of people who were uninsured before (a good percentage of which I’ll bet were likely paying out of pocket and easily affording to do so) are now suddenly “covered.”

        Insurance is supposed to be nothing but a hedge against accident and tragedy. Making it the primary way in which anyone receives care, is ridiculous. It would be like my homeowner’s insurance covering my bi-annual window-washing, but not my roof after it caved in due to an ice storm, or my car insurance company covering new tires and wheels, but not my getting T-boned while driving through an intersection.

        1. You are too logical for this world.

        2. Nicely done, RenaD.

        3. “Insurance is supposed to be nothing but a hedge against accident and tragedy. Making it the primary way in which anyone receives care, is ridiculous.”

          Uh, sorry to clue you in on this, but health insurance has been around for many many decades and the whole HMO thing was similar and championed by Nixon way back.

          SOME insurance may be a hedge – like life insurance. But in the case of many parts of modern living it’s a surety that those “accidents” are going to happen. Is age an “accident”? Is the fact that germs multiple and jump from person to person a “tragedy”. I’d say they part and parcel of life.

          Being conservatives and authoritarian, the right often cannot understand things other than black and white – and health care is certainly not easy peasy. But enough facts are in that we know preventative care increased life span and outcomes – AND it cost less than waiting until you are T-Boned with a major disease.

          Ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. Then again, those who promote capitalism at any expense would prefer to reap their pounds of cure out of the flesh of the people….definitely would rather have a pound of gold than an ounce.

          1. SOME insurance may be a hedge – like life insurance. But in the case of many parts of modern living it’s a surety that those “accidents” are going to happen. Is age an “accident”? Is the fact that germs multiple and jump from person to person a “tragedy”. I’d say they part and parcel of life.

            Yes, lots of times age is an accident – there’s no guarantee that anyone will grow old, anymore than there is a guarantee of dying young. And neither is any guarantee of need to access the healthcare system – depends more on how healthy one is and one’s genes as much as anything. Sure, germs are “part and parcel of life”, but they seem to be a bigger part and parcel of some people’s lives than of others. In other words, some are at greater risk than others – and insurance is all about managing risk, not figuring out some way to scam others into paying for your misfortunes and fuckups in life.

          2. Uh, sorry to clue you in on this, but health insurance has been around for many many decades and the whole HMO thing was similar and championed by Nixon way back.

            So what? Doesn’t mean it’s effective or right. When I was a kid, my parents paid out of pocket for regular doctor’s visits and a small monthly premium for catastrophic care. So the question becomes: WHY were my solidly lower middle class parents able to do this without going into the poor house? THAT’s what we need to answer?and solve?instead of shoving exorbitant policies down everyone’s throat.

            And if you believe that government needs to be involved in any way in healthcare, whether by subsidizing it or forcing its citizens to buy health insurance, then they may as well be involved in subsidizing everything else that “ensures” our well-being, including housing and groceries. Live a month without health insurance, no biggie. Try living a month without food or shelter. Why don’t you advocate for government ensuring we’re all provided three meals a day and a roof over our heads?

          3. Being conservatives and authoritarian

            Who snuck a bill through Congress that forces people to buy government-authorized life insurance?

  19. “Meanwhile, the 16 million insured figure comes from a March report by the Department of Health
    and Human Services, and it is a total of those who gained coverage through Obamacare’s exchanges, Medicaid, employment, and the individual market place, which means it’s not wholly attributable to the law.”

    Also, how many of those people were previously insured but had their coverage cancelled due to Obamacare?

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  21. Obamacare was a windfall for the insurance industry that Obama met behind closed doors and just another corporate rip off for the people. Corrupted Obama refused to even consider one payer that most of the majority wanted..

    1. Phil, you ignorant slut…we have single payer in the VA system and outside of Walter Reed and a few hospitals that do a good job with wounded Vets it’s a fucking disaster. You want to foist that shit on the rest of us….piss off.

  22. Considering America has been in the Twilight Zone for the past 8 years no surprise!

    1. America, circa 2008. Everything seems familiar, but a major alien force hides in plain sight.

      *Cut to a black man sitting in the Oval Office*

      Do not adjust your television sets. This is the president of the United States, and he is black. In the Twilight Zone.

    2. Are you saying that things were “real” during the GW years when health care costs rose double digits each year, wars were lost and cost trillions and people were dropped from the health care rolls if they had a mosquito bite 25 years earlier?

  23. Has anyone done studies based on the question, Has health care spending gone down because fewer people have sought healthcare? This is only conjecture because I the resources to conduct a study, but I theorize that this could be true, and it could result in less sickness. I have seen it largely reported that we (at least first-worlders) are over medicated. And I have seen widely reported that the medical profession does much harm. The article mentions that hospital induced problems have declined.
    If my theory is correct, health cost demand reduction might not be because of Obama care. It might, though, be a part of the explanation. It might be that a reduction in the hubris of the medical profession has occurred because they have realized that over-medication does harm. I tend to doubt that, because a reduction in hubris usually does not happen unless those hubris-actors are defeated in war.
    A study to test my theory would, I think, have sobering repercussions.

    1. You can try here and here. Although I would certainly question some of the speculation in the second link. They are all merely hypotheses now.

    2. “Has health care spending gone down because fewer people have sought healthcare?”

      Uh, it’s proven that costs go down when people have coverage – that is, they are usually able to avoid more expensive treatment if they have access to basic services…like the included physical exams, pre-natal, etc. in the ACA.

      Also, unlike the Bush Medicare Part D deal, current ACA providers have the ability to negotiate prices down. In fact, the gubment helps by keeping data and giving an idea of what procedures do and should cost.

      Maybe -just maybe – taking a bit of the predatory behavior and impetus out of our sad health care system….improves things? Think about it. I know…it’s tough. But think about it.

  24. WTF?

  25. Many of those people the governmetn count as “uninsured” who are now insured are people who had their previous coverage cancelled under Obamacare and have been forced to buy more expensive coverage. The law is a disaster and today a retiring Democrat in the House finally told the truth that the law is failing because young people are not signing up. The irony is the young people the Democrats counted on to fund Obamacare are also the largest group of unemployed Americans because the anti-growth, high tax policies of the Democratic party.

  26. The tone of this is markedly different from the linked National Journal article:

    “Although the slow economic recovery helps explain part of the trend in health care spending, it doesn’t fully explain why the current slowdown is so dramatic. Again, health care spending growth in 2013 was the lowest CMS has ever seen, and the agency has been tracking this since the 1960s. There have been plenty of recessions since then, but health spending has never grown this slowly before.” (emphasis in the original)

    As we all know, the Heritage foundation’s Romneycare proposal, which the ACA borrowed liberally from, specifically targeted adverse selection through the individual mandate.

    Also, 2013 was a much better year for the economy than, say, 2007 or 2008. You would expect an increase in health care spending to reflect that.

  27. They’ve fallen short of their own frickin’ projections for the health insurance exchanges.

    Only in government is failure to meet goals a success.

  28. Obama doesn’t change his views to fit reality. Reality must change to fit his views. He is just another ideological buffoon with big ears.

  29. BIG EARS….lacist.

  30. uptil I saw the check ov $9726 , I didnt believe …that…my friends brother actually earning money part time on-line. . there uncles cousin has done this for under eighteen months and recently took care of the morgage on there villa and purchased a brand new Chevrolet .

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  31. And the capital is raised, how? On the good intentions and wishful thinking of fairies and kittens?

  32. Ugh. That was supposed to be a reply to Tony, much further up. No idea why posted here.

  33. I’d like to know which parts of the recession specially affected healthcare costs because by most metrics the economy has been growing since the ACA was passed? If costs are reflected in the economy and this sluggish economic growth is the reason for slower rising healthcare costs, then why didn’t they they go down – not just the rate, but the healthcare costs – with the crash in 2008?

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  35. Ted Cruz thinks the ACA works so well – that he decided to pick up some for himself…

    “Ted Cruz says he has to accept Obamacare because it’s the law.
    His wife is taking unpaid leave from her job at Goldman Sachs for the duration of the presidential campaign, and is giving up her health insurance there. The health insurance that has been covering the whole family.
    Now, Cruz says, he has no legal choice but to take Obamacare because Obamacare is making him do it.

    Except it’s not.

    What the law demands of members of Congress is not that they get their health insurance through Obamacare (unless they have Medicare or coverage from a spouse). It just says that if they do get their health insurance from a plan that’s not on an exchange, they don’t get a sweet taxpayer subsidy to help pay their premiums.”

    It must be good if even it’s worst critics are loading up the truck and shopping cart, right?

  36. His attitude toward governing is that of a despot. His way or the highway. Blue state voters seem unperturbed also by facts, red state voters are unmoved by loss of freedom. I will continue to find ways to make money off of whatever inane policies our profession tyrants come up with. HUM was a good buy 4 years ago at 56. Booyah.

  37. His attitude toward governing is that of a despot. His way or the highway. Blue state voters seem unperturbed also by facts, red state voters are unmoved by loss of freedom. I will continue to find ways to make money off of whatever inane policies our profession tyrants come up with. HUM was a good buy 4 years ago at 56. Booyah.

  38. Well, the parts he hasn’t yet blocked haven’t caused WWIII, so it’s a SUCCESS!

  39. What difference, at this poiint, does it make?

  40. You know they say under Mussolini the trains ran on time… All the immoral fucks saying the ACA is doing great things don’t realize that even if their claims are true (doubtful), the ends don’t justify the means. Craiginmass, Jackass ace, tony, will never get it because they don’t believe there is anything wrong with initiating violence – there is no point arguing with them, because they are goons. I’m sure someone will respond with BUT RETHUGLICANS DID THIS SHIT BLAH BLAH BLAH!@2@#$ So I’ll preempt it with a simple, ‘Fuck those guys, too.’

  41. How many of the 16 million have been forced into the exchange. I for one am one of them. I was with humana paying 292.00 a year PCP. I had this insurance for years. I received a letter last summer stating that I was being canceled December 31, 2014. I set out for the exchange and now I have a policy that I pay 396.00 monthly. Not one of my doctors are in this plan and I have less coverage. By the way I am a50 yr old male who also qualifies for a subsidy. My subsidy is 196.00 monthly and I am still paying 396.00. This is disgraceful. When the Supreme Court rids us all of subsidies , I will be paying close to 600.00 monthly. How’s that for obamacare. So again I ask how many of the 16 million have been forced into the exchange… I presume most of them.

  42. So, Peter, your best argument against the ACA is that it’s not popular with the majority of Americans. Has anyone done a study of its popularity among those that actually purchased healthcare from the exchanges? I think that’s critically important to your argument. And I can’t wait to see if Ted Cruz likes so-called Obamacare.

    1. What does Ted Cruz have to do with anything? I have insurance through the exchange, and it was the worst bureaucratic shit-show in the world to buy it, the insurance sucks so bad the one time I’ve had to use it I didn’t ’cause it was cheaper to pay out of pocket for the care, and they doubled my rate after the new year. I’m ditching it in June when I’ll have a better option, and I can inform you how fucked up that process will be when the time comes. Even if it didn’t blow, which it does, forcing (forced, as in, the ultimate conclusion of refusing will be being locked up in a cage) someone to purchase something whether they want to or not is fucked up and massively immoral. Also, the popularity amongst those who may have benefited from it is fucking irrelevant.

  43. If Obamacare is working better than expected, then this is further evidence of the bigotry of low expectations. ConservativeRuckus.com

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  45. The author commences with an incorrect assumption. He continues downhill from that point of departure.
    The recession affected Europe economies even more severely than it affected ours, yet these countries, most of whom already had some form of universal health-provision/insurance, saw no slowdown in the growth of healthcare demand when the recession struck. His unsupported claim that the slowdown in the growth of the cost of healthcare post the introduction of the ACA was due to the recession would seem to be contradicted.
    As an aside, Hayak, the guru of the economic ideology that dominates right-wing orthodoxies, conceded that there were some things that government does better than the market. He named healthcare as the most significant of these. Margaret Thatcher, who claimed Hayak as one of her most important influences, always referred to Hayak when her leftist opponents said that the British NHS would not be safe in her hands.

  46. Well I think that this is going to work for sure in the best way possible Snapchat Login

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