Brickbat: Nothing to It

A grand jury has refused to indict a Victoria, Texas, police officer who used his Taser on 76-year-old man after stopping him for an expired vehicle registration. The police department fired Nathanial Robinson after an internal investigation found three different policy violations during the stop. Robinson says he'd like to get his job back.

Comments

[Fist of Etiquette]

Robinson says he'd like to get his job back.

That back pay they're sure to give him will help him stay on his roids regimine.

[Fist of Etiquette]

-Dan Quayle

[db]

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[Paul.]

FoE's no Jack Kennedy.

[Jaybirdmojo]

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[Acosmist]

Given the video, that seems like a reasonable outcome.

[Charles Easterly]

When my ears fail and I can't see then I'll be ready for a Grand Jury.

[Rufus J. Firefly]

What is it with these Grand Juries and their refusal to indict cops?

[ColonelEngineer]

because "muh public servant"

[UnCivilServant]

They only hear what the prosecutors give them, plus lingering bias from not having to deal with law enforcement.

[WTF]

They only hear what the prosecutors give them

Exactly this. If the Prosecutor doesn't want an indictment, there will be no indictment. And prosecutors and cops are on the same team.

[This Is My Last Post]

Think about the kinds of excuses one can use to get out of jury service. Now think about the kinds of people who cannot use any such excuse. There is your answer.

[ColonelEngineer]

I'm actually not familiar with either... I think it's a mix of age and the fact that I've never been summoned.

[This Is My Last Post]

The exact rules vary from one jurisdiction to another. But in the places I have lived (Ohio and Florida) you can get out of it if you are a college student, have a job in the medical profession, emergency services (i.e. firefighter), military, or are a police officer. You can also get out of it if you can make a reasonable case of hardship or that you *might* be out of the state during part of the trial you can be exempted. The end result of all of the exceptions is that, if you have almost any kind of a job - ANY kind - you can probably get out of jury duty if you really want to.

[gaoxiaen]

You can even say "I hate cops. They're all thugs and liars".

[This Is My Last Post]

Interesting. I wonder though, could you leave the courthouse unscathed?

[Free Society]

You'd be on someone's radar for sure. Star to finish, the prosecutors forced me into a position where I had to lie. I'm in a small town, the chances of there not being any negative consequences of voicing my antipathy for the justice system are near nil.

[Free Society]

I've been summoned as a grand juror. And during the selection process we were repeatedly asked whether or not we'd be able to render an indictment for drug crimes and other victimless crimes. After no one spoke up to say they would in fact refuse issue such charges, the prosecutor began to talk to us about perjury and how things we don't tell them in advance can be used to charge jurors with perjury and contempt of court. So he implicitly said that failure to pursue the charges he wanted to be pursued, could result in the criminal justice coming after you for payback.

I was actually scared of being selected after that. Which was the prosecutors goal, to weed out the people with a sense of justice and select for people who will indict who he says to indict.

[This Is My Last Post]

Free Society - thanks for the heads up. That is probably happening everywhere since the serfs are learning about jury nullification again. How dare jurors actually do their constitutional duty rather than rubber stamp prosecutions!

[Paul.]

That's a nice primer on how he poisons the well for drug crimes, but it doesn't explain the pro-cop mentality-- aside from the explanation above that cops and prosecutors are on the same team.

[Free Society]

The pro-cop mentality is a given. They work for the same institution and milk the same tax payers. It would be absurd to claim they don't play for the same team.

[John C. Randolph]

Hey, here's an idea: why don't police departments quit issuing electrocution torture devices to vicious assholes?

-jcr

[Paul.]

The alternative would have been the old man would have been shot 11 times in the face with a .40 cal. I have no problem with tasers. I do have a problem with the cops that abuse them.

[Free Society]

But less-than-lethal force is a lot more beneficial to abusers of authority than to we smallfolk.

[John C. Randolph]

Hey, here's an idea: why don't police departments quit issuing electrocution torture devices to vicious assholes?

-jcr

[Libertarian]

Initially, tasers were supposed to be a non-lethal option to be used where a gun was too much. But they morphed into an easy way for cops to do things without getting their hands dirty -- or, in this case, without having to even work up a sweat.

[Scarecrow Repair]

Probably less paperwork to account for a few electrons on the loose than a few misplaced bullets.

[Swiss Servator... Switzy!]

OT: Paging SugarFree...paging Mr. SugarFree...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/new.....-Pope.html

[SugarFree]

Women go nuts when they haven't seen the human representative of their husband on Earth in a while.

Get thee to a nunnery: why wouldst thou be a
breeder of sinners? I am myself indifferent honest;
but yet I could accuse me of such things that it
were better my mother had not borne me

[Swiss Servator... Switzy!]

Also OT: for the Russian apologists..."but, but..Ukrainian fascists!!!111!1"

http://news.yahoo.com/european.....38383.html

[Heroic Mulatto]

Every 100 or so years, Europe goes mad. It's like the bipolar disorder of history.

[Scruffy Nerfherder]

I don't think they ever go quite sane, it's just that they can't keep the crazy uncles locked up in the closet anymore.

[This Is My Last Post]

One cannot control who might support one for "strategic" reasons. I am not going to say Putin is an angel - he is not. He is a politician after all. But the slander against him has made him almost sympathetic despite being a politician. He did do one great thing. He gave refuge to a true American hero - Edward Snowden. For that alone he should be defended at least to a point.

[Redmanfms]

Fuck me....

Russia shelters Snowden, so Putin is totally cool, you know, besides conscripting college students who protest the regime, murdering political opponents, murdering reporters, and going after homosexuals in what can only be described as a modern pogrom (Putin's Russia hasn't been a real friendly place for the Jews either).

[This Is My Last Post]

Putin is no angel - like I said. But our United States of America is no beacon of freedom either. We have mass surveillance, torture on Guantanamo, assassinations by drone, and the largest prisoner per capita ratio on planet Earth. My problem with most of the [Western] Putin critics is their hypocrisy. They see the problems over there but either fail to see or willingly ignore the problems over here. This hypocrisy is, in many cases, motivated by Western politics.

[Redmanfms]

Uh-huh.

"You can't criticize Putin because something, something, prison population." In case you haven't noticed fucknugget, libertarians have a problem with those things too, and are pretty vocal about it.

Go suck Putin's dick Malkavian.

[This Is My Last Post]

Redmanfms,

Do you live in Russia? I don't. Putin's policies do not affect me. Nor can I really do anything about them. If I did try to do something about it, Russians would have every right to say "Go home Yankee, we are fed up with your country's imperialism." Such a reaction on their part would be quite understandable. It is the US, not Russia, that has the worse record on imperialism.

[Redmanfms]

It is the US, not Russia, that has the worse record on imperialism.

Oh wow cocksucker, tu quoque, real solid defense. Of course, I'm not defending American imperialism fucknugget, you, OTOH are defending Putin (and if you're Malkavian) and Russian imperialism.

Of course, you don't consider Soviet Union/Russia gobbling up its neighbors to be imperialism because you are a hypocritical dipshit.

[This Is My Last Post]

Redmanfms,

I neither know nor care who Malkavian is. Please explain how people who want to rejoin Russia rejoining Russia is imperialism? Shouldn't we look beyond the concept of artificial borders and support people who would rather live under a different flag having the right to do so? I would say the same thing if the vast majority of people southern New Mexico decided they wanted to rejoin Mexico. I would say the same thing if Vermonters wanted to join Canada. I am not of the view that these artificial lines are sacred commandments from God.

[Redmanfms]

Shouldn't we look beyond the concept of artificial borders

Why? You realize you're not actually doing that vis-a-vis the Russian minority in Eastern Ukraine, right?

I am not of the view that these artificial lines are sacred commandments from God.

Riiiiiggggghhhhhttttt:

The truth is that Crimea was part of Russia long before it became part of Ukraine... (snip) ...Russia reclaiming historical Russian land...

Soooo, you're a liar?

[This Is My Last Post]

I wrote: "Shouldn't we look beyond the concept of artificial borders"

Redmanfms wrote: "Why? You realize you're not actually doing that vis-a-vis the Russian minority in Eastern Ukraine, right?"

What? Do you understand the meaning of the word artificial?

I wote: "I am not of the view that these artificial lines are sacred commandments from God."

Redmanfms wrote: "Riiiiiggggghhhhhttttt:"

Are you of the view that they are?

I wrote: "The truth is that Crimea was part of Russia long before it became part of Ukraine... (snip) ...Russia reclaiming historical Russian land..."

Redmanfms: Soooo, you're a liar?"

What exactly do you think I am lying about?

[Redmanfms]

Redmanfms wrote: "Riiiiiggggghhhhhttttt:"

See the colon? I bolded it for you this time.

I was pointing out that this statement::::

I am not of the view that these artificial lines are sacred commandments from God.

conflicts with these statements::::

The truth is that Crimea was part of Russia long before it became part of Ukraine... (snip) ...Russia reclaiming historical Russian land...

[This Is My Last Post]

No, actually, those two statements do not conflict. Saying land has been in Russian hands for a very long time is not the same as thinking that "these artificial lines are sacred commandments from God."

[Limpee Wiltstock]

He's not that bad...

[Redmanfms]

What Russia is doing/did in Ukraine right now is damn near identical to what Germany did in Czechoslovakia in 1938.

And Putin's apologists? Poorly veiled (sometimes, as this article shows, not veiled at all) racist white nationalists, the fucking lot of them. The fact that Stormfront has been gaga over Putin for the last 9-10 years is a clue.

Cue Malkavian to stomp in here and tell us that Ukraine really belongs to Russia and simultaneously tell us that Russia isn't imperialist, just like the Soviets. (That exchange, probably a year or so ago, was fucking hilarious BTW if you can find it. "Yeah, well besides all the Ribbentrop Republics, Hungary, Czechoslovakia, and Afghanistan the Soviets were totally not militant and expansionist, and besides, the Russians always saw those territories as theirs anyway, so it was ok")

[This Is My Last Post]

Right because anyone who disagrees with your point of view is a racist. I don't know or care what is said on Stormfront because I never go there. But history tells us that Crimea was made part of Ukraine in February of 1954. Not exactly ancient history. And this is only one example of many transfers of land that took place in Eastern Europe over the past 100 years. In any case, why should it matter to American libertarians what flag flies over what soil in Eastern Europe.

[Redmanfms]

New handle?

Right because anyone who disagrees with your point of view is a racist.

Putin defenders are scumbags. What variety of scumbag they are is irrelevant.

Besides you, the only other Putin cocksuckers I've seen are racist shitweasels. You might not be a racist, but if you're a Putin defender, you're an asshole.

And this is only one example of many transfers of land that took place in Eastern Europe over the past 100 years.

Blah, blah, blah.

That's a pretty shitty defense of Russian imperialism.

In any case, why should it matter to American libertarians what flag flies over what soil in Eastern Europe.

Violations of NAP matter regardless of where they happen cocksucker. Being critical of Russian imperialism isn't advocating for war. People capable of discrete, high order thought realize that, but you're a Putin cocksucker, so that probably escaped your mental faculties.

[This Is My Last Post]

Redmanfms,

I do not know who you think I am, nor do I care. I do not defend any violations of the NAP. Nothing I have written indicates otherwise. I will, however, defend the truth no matter what it is. The truth is that Crimea was part of Russia long before it became part of Ukraine. The truth of the matter is that the ethnic Russians in Ukraine don't seem to mind the idea of becoming part of Russia once again. The truth of the matter is that many of those freaking out over Russia reclaiming historical Russian land are freaking out because they want the United States to continue to be dominant in world politics and are afraid of the USA losing its hegemony over Europe.

[Redmanfms]

I do not know who you think I am, nor do I care

It doesn't really matter, honestly.

I do not defend any violations of the NAP.

Yeah, about that:

The truth is that Crimea was part of Russia long before it became part of Ukraine.

On top of mounting a defense of violating the NAP, so fucking what if Crimea was part of Russia once upon a time? They ceded the land voluntarily, notably when they fucking controlled Ukraine (after invading and annexing it).

Should they get fucking Alaska back through military conquest too?

[This Is My Last Post]

"They ceded the land voluntarily, notably when they fucking controlled Ukraine (after invading and annexing it)."

No, actually they didn't. It was part of the USSR at the time and the USSR made that "choice" for them. Even if they DID what matters is what most of the Crimeans today want.

"Should they get fucking Alaska back through military conquest too?"

If a majority of Alaskans wanted to rejoin Russia they have that right in my view. I certainly think war is something to be avoided but apparently the government of Ukraine does not agree with me on that.

[Redmanfms]

The truth of the matter is that the ethnic Russians in Ukraine don't seem to mind the idea of becoming part of Russia once again.

Yeah, yeah, Hitler annexing the Sudetenland was cool for the same reason right?

Hitler didn't shoot anybody to do it either.

The truth of the matter is that many of those freaking out over Russia reclaiming historical Russian land

Translation: Military conquest is fine, so long as more than half a century ago the land was yours, even if you gave it up voluntarily, also so long as it is Russian.

are freaking out because they want the United States to continue to be dominant in world politics and are afraid of the USA losing its hegemony over Europe.

OOOooooo, red herring, kewl.

[This Is My Last Post]

The first part of my sentence "The truth of the matter is that many of those freaking out over Russia reclaiming historical Russian land"

Redmanfms wrote: "Translation: Military conquest is fine, so long as more than half a century ago the land was yours, even if you gave it up voluntarily, also so long as it is Russian.

The second part of my sentence: "are freaking out because they want the United States to continue to be dominant in world politics and are afraid of the USA losing its hegemony over Europe."

Translation: Redmanfms broke up a sentence so he could take words out of context.

Redmanfms,

Please explain how people wanting to rejoin Russia rejoining Russia is imperialism.

[Redmanfms]

Translation: Redmanfms broke up a sentence so he could take words out of context.

No, it means I was responding to two discrete points being made in the sentence.

But yeah, lets just avoid actually addressing those points TIMLP...

Please explain how people wanting to rejoin Russia rejoining Russia is imperialism.

What? You do know the Russian Army invaded Eastern Ukraine where ethnic Russians make up less than a third of the population, right?

I'll repeat, you're a liar. It isn't a question this time.

[Redmanfms]

You know, for somebody not defending Russian violations of the NAP, you sure do seem mighty invested in defending Russian violations of the NAP.

[This Is My Last Post]

Redmanfms, can you give an actual example of my defending Russian violations of the NAP?

[This Is My Last Post]

"What? You do know the Russian Army invaded Eastern Ukraine where ethnic Russians make up less than a third of the population, right?"

Other than deluded comments by John McCain and other neocon politicians, do you have any actual evidence of this?

[Redmanfms]

Redmanfms, can you give an actual example of my defending Russian violations of the NAP?

Your mendacity knows no bounds.

Read your fucking posts and get back to me cocksucker.

You can start with this gem:

The truth is that Crimea was part of Russia long before it became part of Ukraine.

Other than deluded comments by John McCain and other neocon politicians, do you have any actual evidence of this?

See link posted above.

You want to convince me (and anybody reading this thread) you aren't just a Putin cocksucking apologist for Russian imperialism? Post something like this:

"I, TIMLP, think Putin's unprovoked annexation of Crimea through military invasion is an aggressive act and therefore view it as a violation of the NAP. Furthermore, I view the actions of the Putin regime, specifically politically-motivated conscription, murder of journalists, murder of political rivals, and encouragement of violence against homosexuals as in violation of the basic precepts of liberty. This statement is is only a specific condemnation of Russian actions and does not represent a defense of similar actions in the United States or elsewhere."

[This Is My Last Post]

"Read your fucking posts and get back to me cocksucker."

In other words you cannot.

Please explain, how is people who WANT to be part of Russia, becoming part of Russia imperialism. The so called "stealth invasion" has vet to be proven. And can you give any actual reason why the "Donetsk People's Republic" should not be permitted to secede? As far as his actions against homosexuals or other laws infringing upon liberty, I, of course, condemn them wholeheartedly.

[HazelMeade]

I actually think that Russia annexing Crimea is totally fine. The population is ethnically russian and Russian speaking even in the rural areas.

Eastern Ukraine is a different matter entirely. The population there is ethnically Ukranian except in the cities, which is invariably a sign of recent immigration - lots of transplanted Russians from the USSR days. Also the rebels were losing until Russian forces intervened, which tells you something about their level of support.

There's no reason to believe that the "Donetsk People's Republic" is in any way representative of the population in the region. They took power by force, with the backing of a foreign ally. I'm inclined to think the rebels are heavily butressed by Russian "volunteers" (thugs paid by the Russian government) and special operations force from Russia proper. Absent that help they would have lost badly to the Ukranian army by now. I also have no doubt that most people living in Eastern Ukraine are afraid to challenge the Russian-backed thugs that have seized power there.

[This Is My Last Post]

All governments take power by force, that is actually a good definition of government. As to who is what ethnicity, I actually don't care - what matters is the consent - either tacit or active - of the local population. The "Donetsk People's Republic" seems to be mostly filled with people who - for one reason or another - no longer wish to be part of Ukraine. Of course there may well be some people living in that region with a different view - but that is always the case when borders shift. I don't like governments period - please do not take this as a defense of ANY government. But what bothers me about the anti-Russian sentiment as of late is that it is usually hypocritical and - even worse - often accompanied by a desire for the United States to intervene. John McCain actually said a few weeks back that he was "ashamed" that the United States was not "doing more" to intervene in the Ukraine conflict. I guess he really wants us in yet another war.

[Redmanfms]

But what bothers me about the anti-Russian sentiment as of late is that it is usually hypocritical and - even worse - often accompanied by a desire for the United States to intervene.

Yup, lots of that at Reason.

[Redmanfms]

The "Donetsk People's Republic" seems to be mostly filled with people who - for one reason or another - no longer wish to be part of Ukraine.

Jeebus.

I don't like governments period - please do not take this as a defense of ANY government.

Holy shit man, WTF else should we call it?

Your very presence in this thread began with
Putin apologia.

[This Is My Last Post]

"Your very presence in this thread began with Putin apologia."

You must be using some strange definition of apologia I was not previously aware of. Please, what dictionary do you use?

[Redmanfms]

I actually think that Russia annexing Crimea is totally fine. The population is ethnically russian and Russian speaking even in the rural areas.

I disagree. The majority is indeed ethnically Russian, however, Putin admitted that the military annexation was planned before the referendum. The referendum vote result itself was highly dubious.

[Redmanfms]

Third link:

There is also evidence of voter intimidation by pro-Russian separatists.

[This Is My Last Post]

Redmanfms,

How is the annexation of Crimea a "military" annexation when a majority of the population seems to be cool with it?

[Redmanfms]

In other words you cannot.

Right here fucknugget, it was right under that sentence:

The truth is that Crimea was part of Russia long before it became part of Ukraine.

That's your apologia for the Russian annexation through military force of Crimea.

The so called "stealth invasion" has vet to be proven.

It's not stealth and has been proven. Russian incursions into the Donbass began in (at least) August of 2014. The Russians have admitted to Russian soldiers being captured in Ukraine.

Don't let facts get in the way of your Putin cocksucking session TIMLP.

And can you give any actual reason why the "Donetsk People's Republic" should not be permitted to secede?

Can you give any actual reason why less than a third of the population of a region should force the majority to secede with the aid of a foreign military??? Try to tie your answer into the NAP.

[This Is My Last Post]

Redmanfms wrote : "Right here fucknugget, it was right under that sentence: 'The truth is that Crimea was part of Russia long before it became part of Ukraine.'"

Please explain how stating a fact is defending Russian violations of the NAP?

Redmanfms linked to an article from the Guardian titled "Russia admits its soldiers have been caught in Ukraine" from 26 August 2014. If he had read the article he would have seen this paragraph: " "The soldiers really did participate in a patrol of a section of the Russian-Ukrainian border, crossed it by accident on an unmarked section, and as far as we understand showed no resistance to the armed forces of Ukraine when they were detained," a source in Russia's defence ministry told the RIA Novosti agency."

I wrote "And can you give any actual reason why the "Donetsk People's Republic" should not be permitted to secede?"

Redmanfms wrote : "Can you give any actual reason why less than a third of the population of a region should force the majority to secede with the aid of a foreign military??? Try to tie your answer into the NAP."

Well, lets see, maybe if that third of the population was being oppressed by fascists in Kiev and secession was the only way to separate from the Kiev fascists. Again, why should libertarians in the USA care what flag flies over a piece of land in Eastern Europe?

[Redmanfms]

Well, lets see, maybe if that third of the population was being oppressed by fascists in Kiev and secession was the only way to separate from the Kiev fascists.

Facts not entered into evidence.

They could, you know, move to Russia instead of expecting the rest of the population to live under Russian fascists.

Again, why should libertarians in the USA care what flag flies over a piece of land in Eastern Europe?

Good question. What are you discussing here?

[This Is My Last Post]

"They could, you know, move to Russia instead of expecting the rest of the population to live under Russian fascists."

Why should they have to move? Why should they not be able to stay where they are and defend their rights.

[Redmanfms]

Then there's this...

You devote an awful lot of energy to defending Russian aggression.

Hmmmm.....

[This Is My Last Post]

"You devote an awful lot of energy to defending Russian aggression."

So far you have not shown where I have defended ANY aggression, Russian or otherwise.

[Free Society]

The police department fired Nathanial Robinson after an internal investigation found three different policy violations during the stop.

And needlessly tasing an old man was not one of them. He was fired for procedures not being followed, not for the level of criminal investigation. Ha.

[Free Society]

criminal aggression*. damn you lack of edit button

[Vampire]

You're more than likely get a button to edit your toast, rather than get a button to edit your post.

[Free Society]

But I already have a button to edit my toast.

[Vampire]

Could you please edit my toast . I want butter and jelly!

[This Is My Last Post]

"May I Just ask one question... would anyone like any toast?"

From Talkie Toaster of Red Dwarf.

[Vampire]

Why folks believe others should have qualified immunity, get paid through extortion, and be shielded from market forces is beyond me.

They then expect such an organization to respect their rights and protect them, then bitch when the folks in costumes violate them and couldn't give two shits for them because they wanted to get home safe. That is after they caused a situation to be escalated into violence trying to enforce "law" written by douchebags in fancy suits who are threatened by strength, freedom, and things they feel uncomfortable with.