Dare to Dream: IRS Subject of Criminal Probe Over Missing Emails

They were "missing" much like a box shoved in a closet is "missing."


"Oh, THOSE e-mails. Why didn't you just say so?"
U.S. House

Last night during a House Oversight and Government Reform Committee hearing, an official revealed that they had tracked down more than 30,000 allegedly missing/deleted emails from former IRS official Lois Lerner. Futhermore, now federal officials are considering whether any criminal activity occurred in relation to their disappearance. It's not the crime, it's the cover up, they always say.

From The Washington Post:

The inspector general's office said it is working to identify any messages that the IRS has not already sent to congressional investigators, who are examining the Lerner's involvement in the IRS targeting scandal.

The watchdog agency found the backed-up emails by consulting with IRS information-technology specialists, according to TIGTA Deputy Inspector General for Investigations Tim Camus.

"They were right where you would expect them to be," he said at the rare late-night hearing, which lasted until about 10 p.m.

IRS leaders previously told Congress that their email backup systems only go back for six months and are then overwritten. But in actuality, the IRS had tapes containing data going back for more than 10 years. According to a Camus, nobody from the agency ever even asked for the tapes when they were originally looking for Lerner's emails.

The Washington Post notes that this is the first time anybody from the inspector general's office has said an there was an actual criminal investigation going on. Of course, it's not about whether IRS workers had actually used their position to target conservative, tea party non-profit groups for extra scrutiny, but rather whether they concealed the evidence. Still, it's helpful to know the scandal hasn't disappeared completely from everybody's radar.

NEXT: Big Bang Denialism?*

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    Did I cover every talking point that’s been used and will be used if this story grows legs?

    1. You nailed it perfectly, you ratfucking, teabagging redneck.

    2. Like I (and others) said many months ago, this scandal isn’t going away. It’s got way too much red meat for Congress to simply walk away. And crushing the IRS is unpopular how?


      1. Conservative organizations are only for the rich and big business.

    4. You forgot “Not a smidgen…”

    5. Look! Over there! A Republican politician or someone on Fox News just said something stupid! Also, you want Obama to fail because you’re a racist.

      1. Also, you want Obama to fail because you’re a racist.

        The only reasonable response to this sort of thing is to admit: Yes, I do want this administration to fail. I enjoy living in a prosperous first-world country.

    6. You forgot “what difference does it make?”



      1. THERE ARE FOUR LIGHTS (and that dress is white and gold)

        1. Are you sure you don’t see 5 lights?

          1. I see a thousand points of light. Maybe a million.

      2. Oh, you’re one of those people…

      3. The dress is definitely white and gold. You can make a white and gold dress look blue and black with poor lighting, but you can’t make a blue and black dress look white and gold no matter what you do.

        1. It’s red, green, and blue.

        2. It is blue with a white stain on it.

  2. It would be awesome if this blew up in about a year when the democrats are really revving up their campaign for president.

    1. I so much want to see some people go to prison for this.

      1. I would like to see Koskinen admit he lied under oath.

        That dude is a dbag.

        1. I would like to see him executed over this.

      2. Never happen as long as Obama controls the DOJ.

        1. I can wait two years.

    2. NO. It will give them a way to run against the incumbent… of their own party! I don’t think we want that.

  3. Prosecute. With extreme prejudice.

    1. Have Auric preposition a comet…

        1. It’s just a small sideline Auric and I are running to influence decision-making and cash transfers on Earth.

          1. “Wow, what are the odds that someone could get hit by a comet impacting the Earth?!”

  4. “Missing” as in exactly where everyone on this blog with any IT knowledge said they would be – if anyone bothered to look.

    1. Old emails were on the mail server backup tapes? I just don’t know what to think anymore. My world is upside down.

  5. *raises POW/MIA flag for all the “missing” emails out there*

  6. Always physically destroy all your backups after their usefulness for disaster recovery has passed. Especially mail.

    1. Government backups only seem to be useful for creating disasters (of the political kind). So they should be destroyed immediately?

  7. It’s not the crime, it’s the coverup that calls attention to all the other crimes the government commits that gets you.

  8. One thing I can’t figure out about this revelation is why most of the news articles I have read about it don’t contain the email that really looks like a smoking gun. The one where Lerner said “No one will ever believe that both your hard drive and mine crashed within a week of each other.” sent on June 9 2011. For some reason the comments section isn’t letting me add the link. But, it’s on the GOPoversight twitter feed if anyone wants to check it out.


      Nobody seems to care about Congressional Hearings any more. Remember when people used to be afraid of them?

      1. Thanks! Not sure why it wouldn’t let me post the Twitter link.

        I think some people are still afraid of Congressional hearings. But, government employees aren’t part of that group. It’s really only the private citizens that need fear the wrath of Congress. Government folks get an early retirement with full benefits.

        1. Chappy,

          This may be true of the higher ups, I guarantee you the lower GS’s fear Congress. You want to see people move, and quickly, watch when a request comes in from a Congressional Office.

          1. I’m sure that’s true. But, I would venture to guess that’s because they are worried about the wrath of their immediate supervisor, not Congress. I seem to remember something about something rolling downhill. So, are the lower GS’s worried about Congress, or are the worried that their immediate supervisor will get hammered, which will then roll down on them.

            1. They are worried about Congress, not their supervisors. The people like Lerner will be protected, lower GSs won’t be.

              1. Well, if that’s the case. We need to stop inviting the heads to testify before congress and start questioning their charges. Because the heads really don’t seem to be very worried.

    2. Notice use of no one instead of who…suggests she knows that many people will be interested.

      Also “will” instead of would.

      Who would believe…that is how you’d write this if it were innocuous.

      And I believe she wrote this to show everyone “see, it can’t be true, because I was self-aware about it.”

      In reality no one would ever care to document this “coincidence” in an email if it was just happenstance.

  9. Dare to Dream: IRS Subject of Criminal Probe Over Missing Emails

    Dream on

    I want these IRS people to spend time in the pokey. My faith in my duly elected representatives faithfully executing their responsibilities just isn’t there.

  10. As long as Obama is President, the AG will never bring criminal charges against anyone involved in this. And as long as there is no threat of charges, no one is going to talk. Right now talking is the only thing that is likely to get an IRS employee indicted. If someone at the IRS finally did come forward and provide the incriminating emails and testify to a criminal conspiracy to to target Obama’s political enemies, they would be indicted for violating some national security law with in days if not hours.

    That being said, all of this will eventually come out. The truth always does. It will come out after Obama has left office and will receive no coverage outside of a few right wing sources. Any Republican who mentions it or tries to make a political issue of it will be called a racist who can’t get over the past and get beyond their racist hatred of Obama. And no Republican President will dare prosecute anyone involved in this for fear of being called a racist who is more worried about the past than the future and for fear of Democrats using the precedent to go after indictments of people in his administration after he leaves office.

    At some point it will become undeniable this happened. When it does, the media line will be “everyone knew that and no one ever proved that Obama was directly involved so it doesn’t matter”. Then after a few years, the history will be that a rogue IRS under Obama targeted progressive organizations.

    1. Then there should be a special prosecutor appointed, and get the truth out now.

    2. I don’t know that this results in convictions, but by April 15, there are going to be a lot more people screaming about their taxes than last year. At some point, I think there will be a critical mass for a huge tax reform. God willing, Roberts will atone for his penaltax decision and gut the Federal exchange for Obamacare and we could have a small but meaningful rollback in the power of the government to tyranize by audit.

    3. I don’t see this being linked to El Presidente, but I would like to see Lois Lerner’s smug ass sent to federal prison.

      1. I have no doubt it will be. He had too many meetings with people at the IRS for it not to be. These people are total amateurs. It would never occur to them to provide him plausible deniability. They are too much vulgar criminals for that.

    4. Another reason that the progs who run the media need to be wiped out.

    5. Another reason why orogressive run news organizations need to be bought by conservatives and all the progressives excised.

      As long as they have their propaganda machine, it will be very hard to destroy them. And all progressive lives must be destroyed.

  11. And who in the hell would think these emails weren’t recoverable? If you’re going to cover your tracks – email/IT speaking – you have to do it well, including removing the back up tapes. That, of course, takes Admin level not your average user.

    Whoever thought of this excuse was a grade A derp – but that’s par for course for this admin.

    1. and they didn’t even strong arm the IT department to do it?!

      If you’re going to try and be cunning at least try to cover all the bases.

      1. No, they didn’t strong arm them. But, A more in-depth article I read explained that the IRS withheld the documentation about the existence of the tapes. So, the IG didn’t know they where there until someone realized a page was missing from a document (their offsite tape catalog I suppose). So, technically, the did TRY to cover their tracks. They just didn’t try very hard. I guess they figured that no one would notice that their page numbers where not sequential.

      2. I don’t think many IT guys are willing to go to prison to save some shit-eating Admins job. I would assume even asking would scare joe blow IT guy to death and he would raise the red flag.

        Better to just lie and hope it allll blows over.

        1. This is why Congress should be sending subpoenas to IRS IT guys.

        2. I’m surprised the IT guys weren’t reporting it to the IG. After watching the head of my organization declare my incompetence in a televised Congressional hearing to cover his own ass, I’d work actively to fuck him back.

          1. I’m right there with you. But, let’s face it. Throwing your bosses under the bus is about the only thing a government employee will get fired for. But, I am surprised that there wasn’t an anonymous whistle blower. Then again, maybe there was. It would be very difficult to determine you where missing a page or two out thousands of pages of documents if something didn’t tip you off.

          2. This. I’d be sitting in a Hong Kong hotel room, handing a USB stick with Lois Lerner’s emails over to Glenn Greenwald.

    2. It’s not derp if you know for a fact that you’re literally never going to get called on it.

    3. I have no doubt they did nothing to cover their tracks. These people are not bright and they make up for it by being arrogant. I would bet you dollars to donuts that there are emails that are such obvious smoking guns that you would gasp at these people’s carelessness if and when we ever see them. And these people don’t know anything about IT. So, whatever track covering they did is likely not much more than wiping a few hard drives or deleting a few emails off of Lerner’s and a few other’s sent items files on the server. That are that stupid and careless.

      1. That, and their arrogance leads them to believe that they are smarter than anyone else.

        1. The existence of the scheme itself shows how stupid and arrogant they are. The Left had a huge advantage in these kinds of organizations at the start. The IRS had been rubber stamping leftist organizations for years. It only became a problem when the Right caught on and the Tea Party wanted to get into the act. They didn’t have to target the Tea Party. All they had to do was come down hard on everyone. That would have frozen the Left’s existing advantage in stone and done so in a way that would have made them immune from criticism. They could have said, “we decided we needed to enforce the law better” and as long as they were even handed, no one could have said shit.

          They only didn’t do that because they were so fucking arrogant and stupid that they thought they could get even more of an advantage than they already had.

          1. Wonder where the Fellatrix Twins (Tony and Shriek for Brains) are today? Cuz this story was all crap if I recall correctly~

          2. Look, even the tea party groups are not that important. They are scared of these tiny groups.

    4. This whole thing stinks of an attempted coverup by people who have no idea how IT works.

      I’m sure a bunch of non-IT folk were plotting how to get rid of the evidence and decided that hard drive crash sounds good. Then they went to the “techy” person they knew and they said it sounded good too. Problem is that the techy person was about as qualified as Jen from the IT Crowd.

      1. Probably the backup administrator simultaneously shit himself and hit the ceiling when some lawyer type came down and asked him to get rid of those tapes. Which, even these guys were smart enough to have an A-B conversation without specifically asking that they be destroyed. I’m a software guy, so the hardware guys are like Irish cousins to me. (We fight each other until someone from outside the family starts something. ) They take the backup stuff seriously.

        1. “Why certainly, counsel, I will engage in spoliation of evidence for you!”

        2. I don’t think they even got in touch with a real tech administrator. They are too grubby and nerdy for the likes of Lerner and the other hacks to ever go talk to.

          They just talked to some hack that they think is an expert and that hack told them it was good to go. That and like you said, no one wants to actually come out and ask a non-political tech admin to make sure the backups disappear.

          1. I imagine something along the lines of “surely two years is plenty of backup. The storage must cost you a fortune that would be better spent on newer… Whatever you have. “

  12. We have a president who ignores immigration law and even hands out goodies to illegals. He is OK with regulating the Internet and banning ammunition he doesn’t like. It will not be a big surprise when he pardons anyone at the IRS who looks like they are going to get in trouble for this stuff too.

  13. He’ll just sign 10,000 odd blanket pardons and leave them in a safe somewhere to distribute to anyone who had the correct intentions and violated the law to do so.

  14. I’m not holding my breath for Holder’s lousy gang of crooks doing any more in this case than they did in the fast & furious debacle.


    1. We need a new era of McCarthyism to destroy all these people. Coincidentally from the same places where McCarthy wen after them in the late forties.

  15. OT (but does involve an IRS retaliatory audit)

    Enviro group Piedmont Environmental Council that’s been harassing the shit out of Martha Boneta filed a conservation easement not agreed to by the purchaser. Apparently it’s so “materially and substantially” different from the one signed by Boneta that the state’s Virginia Outdoors Foundation had an oh shit moment.

    VOF dropped their offer to take over the management of PEC’s easement. Mr. Hutcherson made it perfectly clear that, “It would be imprudent [for VOF] to take on what we think may by an indefensible liability for the Commonwealth,” and he further noted that the Attorney General’s office “also has serious concerns about the current deed and BDR.”…..etas-farm/

  16. Lerner’s the kind who would’ve ended up in in some other dangerous cult if she hadn’t absorbed into Obama’s.

  17. Of course, it’s not about whether IRS workers had actually used their position to target conservative, tea party non-profit groups for extra scrutiny, but rather whether they concealed the evidence.

    Remember, you can get away with just about any injustice against the laity, but you had best be sure you stay square with God.

  18. Rest in peace, Spock

    1. .. Leonard Nimoy dead at 83

      1. The guy who was in Zombies of the Stratosphere (1952)? Did he do anything after that?

        1. I think he narrated some syndicated documentary show about paranormal stuff in the 70’s.

          1. Oh yeah, that guy.

    2. Lets end the week with one more kick in the nuts. What a fucking horrible week.

    3. He’s not really dead, as long as we remember him.

      1. I hope he mind-melded with Shatner before the end.

          1. I’ve got the sad Star Trek music in my head.

            It’s really weird. I started watching TOS before I even have clear memories, at age 3. He’s been in my world in that respect from the beginning.

            1. Do not grieve, Pro L. It is logical.

            2. Me too, Pro L. Me too.

            3. I remember watching the movies on VHS after my dad recorded them when they played on TV…

              And again, one of my first memories.

            4. There is no show called “TOS” or “The Original Series”. It was called “Star Trek”.

              1. That’s for damned sure.

              2. “It later acquired the retronym of Star Trek: The Original Series (Star Trek: TOS or TOS) to distinguish the show within the media franchise that it began.”


                And if you buy the DVDs they are labeled Star Trek The Original Series

    4. Ugh, I was afraid of that. RIP, Leonard Nimoy.

  19. Can someone explain to me how LL wrote 30K emails? Even if that figure includes every email she sent AND received, that seems like an astronomical number.

    1. The period covers five or six years. Lest say she worked 200 days a year for five years. That is a thousand days of work and only an average of 30 emails a day.

      And don’t forget, the emails keep coming in even when she is on vacation. So that doesn’t include the the other 250 days during that five years that were work days when she was not there.

      That is a very obtainable number given her position and the length of time covered.

      1. Don’t forget spam that the spam filter misses.

          1. Communist Party newsletters?

            1. Approval requests for expensive tv show spoofs.

    2. Uh, in bureaucratic jobs, 100 emails a day is not unheard of.

      I used to try and enforce a policy with my peers that they put all their Qs in one message rather than send people 10 different notes and require endless ‘chatter’/back and forth. Basically = ‘please write emails in full sentences, and bullet point your needs’

      @#*(& forget it. People communicate like cavemen. “Ug Want”. “Ug want what?” “UG want more” “more now?” “No, Ug need more later” “How later”. “Next fiscal quarter”. “Just Ug?” “well, Ug and Og too. Also full year. Oh wait, forgot needs fire someone. Ug can use part of Ik pay for budget” “Did Ug include this in budget request?”

      1. “Also, CC Thog and Ulf and make sure input from Krom taken consideration. Maybe have meeting. When free for meeting….?”

        (see = 500 email chain about when 10 people are actually free for a 5 minute “meeting” which will cover less substance than their idiotic email chain which will involve everyone recounting their life story for no reason)

    3. She didn’t. She had 30k emails in her folder. That would typically include all emails in a conversation, whether she replied or not. Welcome to the ‘reply all’ function that’s horribly overused. But as John says above, in this day and age, writing dozens of emails a day isn’t unusual.

      I’d argue it’s unlikely she wrote 200 emails a day, because if you average that at 2 minutes per email, that’s six hours and a half hours of doing nothing but writing emails.

      No meetings, no bathroom breaks, no lunch, no time standing away from your desk– six and a half hours of continuous, non-stop typing and hitting CTRL-ENTER.

      1. That’s why cell phones have email now.

      2. It’s 30 emails a day for 200 days, which is 6000 per year and 30,000 over a five year period. That’s completely plausible.

  20. Now we know that all she does is email all day. Can we just replace her with a Javascript that randomly responds “Yes” or “No”?

    1. Just get the bird/water device from the Simpsons to just hit Y all day.

  21. IRS leaders previously told Congress that their email backup systems only go back for six months and are then overwritten.

    Which is complete horseshit given that a company such as mine which is probably 1/1000th the size of the IRS has policies in place to keep emails of varying importance for various lengths of time – all of which are WAY longer than six months.

    1. There is this entire organization called The National Archives whose single mission is to collect every government record available.

      1. The NSA likely has a copy as well…

    2. And BTW, tax cases can go back ten years or more. No fucking way is the IRS only keeping six months of their emails. Those emails are needed for prosecutions.

    3. They have a policy.

      See section: (07-08-2011)
      Emails as Possible Federal Records

  22. The watchdog agency found the backed-up emails by consulting with IRS information-technology specialists, according to TIGTA Deputy Inspector General for Investigations Tim Camus.

    I suppose up to that point those “IRS information-technology specialists” had not been properly “consulted with”.

    “They were right where you would expect them to be,” he said

    Right in Koskinen’s rectum?

  23. I say we put Lerner and Koskinen in a bounce house and drop them into Raqqa with a note addressed to Jihadi John-

    “Please dress in orange and cage separately.”

    Now THAT would be just deserts. See we really can co-operate with our foreign enemies. We can farm out the punishment of bureaucratic scum to them.

    But of COURSE I’m just joking.

  24. The IRS: They are who we thought they were.

  25. Come on, the IRS only backs up emails for 6 months and they expect me to keep receipts for 7 years? We all knew that line was bullshit already.

  26. Both Lois Lerner and John Koskinen should be in jail, but who will put them there? Certainly not the Obama DOJ under either Eric Holder or Loretta Lynch.

  27. Work from home as a professional appointment setter. No sales and no experience required. Very simple business model with a SOLID company. Our team will train you with both offline and online marketing that WORKS!
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    1. Hi, Clemons. I’ve got a friend by the name of Lois Lerner that might fit the bill. She’s a whiz with email — she can write tens of thousands of them. Would you be interested in hiring her? But don’t ask about her background — she’ll “claim the 5th” LOL!

    2. “Appointment setter”? Do you mean “pimp”?

  28. Look at the bright side. The investigators at the Inspector General’s office can always get a job with the NFL later.

  29. I get paid over $87 per hour working from home with 2 kids at home. I never thought I’d be able to do it but my best friend earns over 10k a month doing this and she convinced me to try. The potential with this is endless. Heres what I’ve been doing,,,,,,

  30. I get paid over $87 per hour working from home with 2 kids at home. I never thought I’d be able to do it but my best friend earns over 10k a month doing this and she convinced me to try. The potential with this is endless. Heres what I’ve been doing,,,,,,

    1. May I suggest that reason make a grease trap page to deposit all the spam in

  31. wait…didnt GWB administration loose about the same amount? u would of thought that would of been looked into more

    1. Three cheers for our new dead-thread fucker cp. Fuck off and die cp.

    2. They found those a few months later.

  32. I only support capital punishment for government employees.

  33. until I looked at the bank draft which had said $9554 , I be certain that…my… friend woz like really erning money in their spare time from their computer. . there brothers friend has done this 4 only twelve months and at present paid the mortgage on there appartment and bourt a gorgeous Mazda .

    Visit This Link .. http://www.Jobs-Fashion.Com

  34. Unfortunately in Washington, I believe the republicans will ride this for all it’s worth until the next election and then it gets swept under the rug. Lerner, Koskinen should both be fired, jailed. Both will end up stepping aside with full retirement benefits.

    I have no faith in this being pursued to the end.

  35. Taxpayers have to keep their records for seven years but the IRS only needs to keep their backup e-mail records for six months. Is that some kind of joke? It’s just so inconvenient to keep e-mails.

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