A.M. Links: De Blasio and NYPD at Odds, U.S. Frees 5 Guantanamo Detainees, Earthquake Hits L.A. Area

• 

  Credit: Wikimedia Commons

  New York City Mayor Bill de Blasio met privately on Tuesday with police union leader Patrick Lynch, but the mayor and the NYPD apparently failed to patch up their differences. According to one report, "no apology was issued from either side."

• The United States has released five detainees from Guantanamo and transferred the men to Kazakhstan.

• An earthquake with a magnitude of 3.9 has struck the Los Angeles area.

• Liberia will suspend its Ebola curfew for one night in order to allow for New Year's Eve church services.

• Stormy weather has forced a temporary halt to the search for bodies and debris from downed Air Asia flight QZ8501.

• 2014 in review: "Barack Obama had a really terrible year."

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Comments

[Fist of Etiquette]

An earthquake with a magnitude of 3.9 has struck the Los Angeles area.

Did it have the right permits?

[Rufus J. Firefly]

Hello.

Record gathering of Ferraris:

http://www.emirates247.com/new.....5-1.574510

[Swiss Servator, Winter...jetzt]

Thank God they gathered someplace without hailstorms.... one bad day and the entire high end auto insurance industry would be insolvent.

[TwB]

Nice. Just don't ask anyone to valet park one.

[Auric Demonocles]

I'm probably going to do another hike this coming year in California (John Muir Trail), and it requires a permit that I have to get 168 days ahead of time.

[Bo Cara Esq.]

A permit...for a hike? You're not leading some kind of caravan are you?

[UnCivilServant]

It's the People's Democratic Republic of California. There's probably a requirement to get a permit for breathing because of the CO2 output.

[some guy]

IIRC, most of the John Muir trail is in national parks (Yosemite, King's Canyon, etc.). But I am curious now, whether the permit is required by the NPS or by the state of CA...

I could see it going either way. The trail is very popular (like, rafting the Grand Canyon popular), so if they didn't do permits it would turn into a mess real quick.

[NealAppeal]

I have hiked parts of the trail many years ago, during summer, and would hardly run into anyone else...always less than 3 parties a day and mostly never saw another soul. Don't recall needing permits. Fast forward twenty years, though. I would bet permits are required by the NPS...at least I know that is the case at other National Parks not in CA.

[Zeb]

There are a good number of places you need a permit for in national parks and national forests. Mostly places that are very popular and which would be ruined if everyone who wanted to go there did.

Putting aside the question of whether there should be national parks at all, it seems like a good policy in most cases.

[Scruffy Nerfherder]

Wow. I thought it was bad in 1996 when you had to get a permit a few weeks in advance.

[Bo Cara Esq.]

A permit to hike. Sheesh, what in the world is the rationale offered for that?

[some guy]

The trail is incredibly popular and the NPS wouldn't be able to keep up with the maintenance if they opened the flood gates.

It's like trying to camp inside Yosemite valley in the early summer. Good luck.

[Scruffy Nerfherder]

They limit access to the trails and campsites to prevent overcrowding.

[Swiss Servator, Winter...jetzt]

"nobody goes there anymore, its too crowded"

[Auric Demonocles]

Does 24 count as "a few"?

[Tonio]

OK, this trail appears to be all on federal land, so blame the US Dept of the Interior (National Park Service) and US Dept of Agriculture (US Forest Service) who control the land through which the trail passes.

JMT/PCT is in a Wilderness Area and they are trying to limit the amount of traffic there, basically keep out the less serious hikers and maximize the experience for the serious through hikers who are more likely to complete the course. Also, because it's a wilderness area there is no easy out for hikers who overestimate their abilities.

I realize that is antithetical to most people here and am not taking a position on that.

Have fun, Auric. Looking forward to a trip report.

[Zeb]

Well, if parks were sold to private owners, as many people here would probably prefer, they would probably have similar restrictions.

[Citizen Nothing]

they would probably have similar restrictions.

Which would prove they need to be government-owned!

[Auric Demonocles]

In 168 days, I'll get right on that!

[Fist of Etiquette]

Barack Obama had a really terrible year.

I feel bad for him.

[UnCivilServant]

I don't.

[Rufus J. Firefly]

Is Obama even capable of feeling bad for himself?

[Rhywun]

He'll let us know after he reads about how he feels in the paper.

[R C Dean]

I think he feels sorry for himself quite a lot, actually.

That petulant, snarky, backstabbing tone of his comes from somewhere.

[Doctor Whom]

Somehow, the administration managed to squander much of the political goodwill that stems from a recovering economy....

Um, somehow?

[Swiss Servator, Winter...jetzt]

"recovering economy"?

I think they forgot to preface that with "anemically"

[some guy]

Also "belatedly".

[Irish]

I like that we're supposed to give Obama credit for a recovery that's occurring 6 years after he took office despite the fact that the last 4 years I've been hearing that his brilliant plans were being obstructed.

If all his plans were obstructed, how is the recovery thanks to those same plans?

[Doctor Whom]

I've wondered the same thing. Evidently, everything good is Obama's doing, while everything bad happens because Republicans won't let Obama do anything. The reasoning is pretty much "Heads, I win; tails, you lose."

[Auric Demonocles]

Have we finally gotten back to the "disaster" scenario of what they projected would have happened with unemployment 3 years ago if they hadn't spent a trillion dollars?

[Irish]

http://www.economics21.org/files/updated unemployment stimulus graph.png

^ No. Without the recovery plan we were supposed to be back to 5% unemployment by the first quarter of 2014.

We're currently around 6%.

[Auric Demonocles]

So we're only 2 years behind, and at the low, low cost of a trillion bucks!

[Zeb]

I think that's more of an observation that the president does usually get credit or blame for the economy, deserved or not (usually not).

[Bobarian (Mr. Xtreme)]

This is obviously 2014's fault and has nothing to do with BO being a terrible president.

[UnCivilServant]

Opportunity is suffering from robot Alzheimers because of its age.

[some guy]

Opportunity and Spirit are probably the greatest success story in NASA's history. Yeah, putting men on the moon for a couple of days was impressive, but having robots active on Mars for over a decade is downright astounding. Opportunity is the Gameboy of rovers.

[some guy]

Its flash memory is failing. I'm not surprised. You can typically only write a bit about 100,000 times before it fails. I don't know how often Opportunity writes to its flash drive, but its been doing it for over a decade...

[Zeb]

And 10 years ago the firmware for flash memory wasn't as clever as it is today at making even use of each bit. So they probably are parts that have been written a million times and parts that have hardly been used. Unless NASA was way ahead on flash memory.

[Fist of Etiquette]

According to one report, "no apology was issued from either side."

This war could possibly be the best thing to happen for personal freedom in the Big Apple.

[Swiss Servator, Winter...jetzt]

Indeed - no goons to impose uber nanny's vision of a more controlled NYC.

[Ted S.]

Both sides should be apologizing to the people.

[Rich]

And SHOW REMORSE! Don't forget *that* part!

[UnCivilServant]

The only 'remorse' I'd accept would be public seppuku.

[Swiss Servator, Winter...jetzt]

*rummages around for large supply of rice paper, sake and ceremonial knives*

[Notorious G.K.C.]

What's with the rice paper?

[19sigils]

Death Poetry

"What was his death poem?"

Omi said:
'What are clouds
But an excuse for the sky?
What is life
But an escape from death?'

Toranaga smiled. "Interesting," he said.

[19sigils]

Or what those guys said!

*hangs head in shame*

[Bobarian (Mr. Xtreme)]

Swiss, don't forget to post a sign-up sheet for people to act as seconds.

As for rice paper, I believe plastic drop cloths would be sufficient.

In the ritual, I believe rice paper was wrapped around the blade to serve as a handle for the gut slice.

[Swiss Servator, Winter...jetzt]

Bob - that would be a very popular sign up sheet...

[Billy Boogers]

My recollection is it was wrapped on the handle to help maintain your grip whilst spilling your guts out all over it as it gets a little slippery.........

Lord knows, cant have a botched belly slitting now.....

Think of the lawsuits!

[gaijin]

"no apology was issued from either side."

Love is never having to say you are sorry.

[Fist of Etiquette]

Stormy weather has forced a temporary halt to the search for bodies and debris from downed Air Asia flight QZ8501.

Recovery personnel were reportedly not sure why there was no sun up in the sky.

[Swiss Servator, Winter...jetzt]

*narrows gaze*

[Auric Demonocles]

What are everyone's New Years Resolutions?

Root's should be to start doing alt-text.

[Andrew S.]

To stop responding to trolls.

I doubt I'll be successful.

[sarcasmic]

It's OK to respond to them with ridicule and derision. Expecting an honest debate is a fool's errand.

[Bo Cara Esq.]

Sarcasmic, isn't everyone who disagrees with you a lot just dishonest?

[sarcasmic]

There is a difference between honest disagreement and dishonest disagreement.

You are the king of the latter.

[Bo Cara Esq.]

I mean, you've said you now have no liberal friends because of your disagreements. Is there anyone you disagree with regularly here that you don't curse, insult and call dishonest?

[Citizen Nothing]

When it comes to baiting, Bo, you are a master.

[Bo Cara Esq.]

Conservatives love for an echo chamber is matched by their buthurt when someone 'ruins it.'

[Zeb]

Bo, I think you are alright. But you really need to stop taking the bait.

[FUQ]

Anyone who disagrees with Bo is an evil SoConz and must be punished

[Swiss Servator, Winter...jetzt]

It is liberating, once you manage to do so.

[Auric Demonocles]

Embrace reasonable or fscr.

[Swiss Servator, Winter...jetzt]

I have a morbid curiosity about why there are 339 comments on a post - I know it is Bo or Tony, but I at least want to see the opening remarks...then I just scroll past the resulting dung tornado.

[SugarFree]

TURDNADO!

[UnCivilServant]

Is that a rare form of shitstorm?

[Swiss Servator, Winter...jetzt]

Only a bit more common than the sewage typhoon.

[Rhywun]

I smell a hit!

/syfy channel

[Bo Cara Esq.]

It's funny, some people here see this site as a place to discuss things, even with people who might disagree with you. Others seem to see it the way Norm saw the bar in Cheers.

[Citizen Nothing]

Bo!

[Tonio]

Thus the extended discussions of team sports.

[Bobarian (Mr. Xtreme)]

Go Chiefs!

Uhhh...

Maybe next year?

[SoCal Deathmarch]

And you're Cliff Clavin.

[Swiss Servator, Winter...jetzt]

Exactly - I deal with enough of those types IRL, I don't need more of that here.

[Redmanfms]

Reconstructing what blank spaces say from the responses can be quite amusing. Bo-Bo has become so predictable I can get his posts nearly verbatim even when people don't blockquote him.

[Swiss Servator, Winter...jetzt]

Indeed - But "Tony" is the most predictable. Shriek is getting there, too.

[Auric Demonocles]

Something something socons are the worst?

[UnCivilServant]

Embrace reasonable or fscr.

Searches are coming up blank.

[Rhywun]

Reasonable is a Chrome add-on. Fscr is for Firefox.

[TwB]

To stop being so damn pessimistic. Instead, I'll try to be more of a realist, yet still have a hint of cynicism thrown in for good measure.

[Rich]

Excellent. If it's OK with you, I will be more assertive and also resolve to do that.

[$park?'s head exploded]

Sit down and shut up! Nobody asked you! *slap*

[sarcasmic]

[Zeb]

I think that is a good goal.

I'd like to stop caring about politics entirely, because it's really pointless. What I think doesn't really matter. But it's hard when other people don't do the same.

[Certified Public Asskicker]

Not really a resolution, but I am going to deactivate Facebook and go through 2015 out of the loop.

[Ted S.]

I don't have a Facebook account and have been doing just fine for years without it.

[Certified Public Asskicker]

:-O

Yeah, a few people I know have deactivated it in the last year and they seem to be surviving. It usually just makes me angry...and yet, I come here too!

[sarcasmic]

My wife spends all her free time on Facebook, talking to "friends" that she'll never meet. I don't get it.
I mean, yeah I waste time here talking to "friends" that I'll never meet, but that's only because my feckless bosses don't give me anything to do. I rarely comment here on my own time, nor would I if I had a job that kept me busy.

[Rufus J. Firefly]

BFF?

[sarcasmic]

She is trying to get into breeding snakes, and has "friends" all over the globe who are part of the reptile community. She will not discuss politics or anything controversial. Just snakes and family. It works for her, but doesn't interest me in the slightest.

[Swiss Servator, Winter...jetzt]

oh, it will interest you, mister, when a 16 foot snake is trying to squeeze the life out of ye!!!!!

[sarcasmic]

We've already talked about that, and she will not keep anything that is too big for her to handle by herself. So as much as she'd like to have a retic or a Burmese, it ain't gonna happen.

[Doctor Whom]

I resolve to extract more productivity from my orphans.

[Swiss Servator, Winter...jetzt]

Capital, my dear fellow! Bravo!

[SugarFree]

I resolve to extract more productivity from Doctor Whom's orphans.

[Auric Demonocles]

Have you ever tried simply turning off the TV, sitting down with your children, and hitting them?

[Steve G]

OMG, that was good. Walked right into it.

[Scruffy Nerfherder]

Finish my GD house remodel and get a GD social life.

[Tonio]

A excludes B. But once B is accomplished it helps with A.

[Auric Demonocles]

A could help with B too, if the remodel includes a sweet bar.

[Tonio]

That's what I meant.

[Auric Demonocles]

Oh, I read it as enlisting friends to do the work for you.

[Scruffy Nerfherder]

I was thinking more along the lines of a cage in the basement for the kids complete with a water spigot, feeder, toilet facilities, and sound proof walls.

[Tonio]

That type of space would also attract a different sort of guest.

[Scruffy Nerfherder]

No Warty's allowed.

[Warty]

No, Warty's allowed.

[Scruffy Nerfherder]

Damn commas

[R C Dean]

Oooh, poshy.

[Zeb]

Finish my GD house remodel and get a GD social life.

I need that too (though my house was more of a re-build). I've gotten to the point where all of the stuff I need to finish is mostly small cosmetic stuff which is easy to ignore. What do baseboards really do for you anyway?

[Scruffy Nerfherder]

What do baseboards really do for you anyway?

Hell if I know, but we're getting them anyway.

[Stormy Dragon]

Embrace my alienation. I'm stuck at that awkward phase where I realize most problems are completely beyond my ability to effect, but where they bother me anyways because I still care about the outcome.

[Rich]

Gruber In 2009: Obamacare Will NOT Be Affordable

As Gruber continues to withhold documents while he awaits a call-back for more testimony before the House Oversight and Government Reform Committee in the new year, more shocking information is coming to light detailing the deceptions that went into the writing of the health-care law.

Mark my words: Time's Man of the First Part of the Century.

[Swiss Servator, Winter...jetzt]

Just lit the shriek signal?

[Steve G]

Time's Man of the First Part of the Century

I thought that was Privilege

*you know, since MoY has expanded in recent years to include 'things' in addition to, you know, actual Men (Women)*

[Swiss Servator, Winter...jetzt]

The United States has released five detainees from Guantanamo and transferred the men to Kazakhstan.

ISIS called for reinforcements?

[Bobarian (Mr. Xtreme)]

If the 5 detainees were from Tunisia, wouldn't that be just a little fucked up?

[sarcasmic]

A dirty mind is a SHARPER mind: Sexual thoughts boost memory, expert claims

Grand Master of Memory, Ed Cooke, says that rude and violent thoughts are more easily memorable and can be used to help recall information
This is because sexual thoughts evoke emotion and attract interest
Technique was used by Roman and Greek politicians and debaters
Mr Cooke's website Memrise helps people more easily remember facts
He believes that memories can get better with age ? not worse - because people have more experience, with which to link new information
Studies suggest that people use age as an excuse for forgetting

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sci.....laims.html

[TwB]

Flawed research. I have rude thoughts all the time and my short term memory is already shit.

[sarcasmic]

That's because you're an alcoholic.

[TwB]

Nah. I actually don't drink that much anymore. I think that maybe all those hits I took playing football in high school have caught up with me.

[Swiss Servator, Winter...jetzt]

Nonsense, I played rugby for decades and... what were we talking about here?

[sarcasmic]

My short term memory loss might have something to do with smoking all that, uh, um, yeah. You know what I meant.

[Ted S.]

Obviously your thoughts aren't rude enough.

[Steve G]

Can I interest you in a Vagina Kayak??

[R C Dean]

Awesome band name.

[gaijin]

Sexual thoughts boost memory

So next time I misplace my keys, I need to think of them penetrating holes and releasing a latch...and I'll remember where I put them?

[UnCivilServant]

If you read, the trick is to do so when you're forming the memory, not when you need better recall.

[Irish]

In that case, this will make my 4 year old cousin's birthday party a little awkward.

"Good God, Irish, what are you doing? There are children here!"

"Leave me alone! I'm forming memories!"

[sarcasmic]

I larfed.

[$park?'s head exploded]

So every time you pick up your keys, just imagine fisting someone with them.

[gaijin]

I'll give that a try and let you know how it works!

[SugarFree]

This is why most of my stories are actually mnemonics for a secret history of mankind.

[Swiss Servator, Winter...jetzt]

*shudders*

[some guy]

You're that autistic guy who set the record for reciting pi, aren't you?

[SugarFree]

I'm a good driver.

[Pope Jimbo]

Look out lumosity.com! I just registered cumosity.com and am ready to create a brain game/exercise site for men based on this study.

[sarcasmic]

CIA says at least HALF of all UFO sightings in the 1950's and 60's were spy planes, NOT aliens

'#1 most read on our #Bestof2014 list: Reports of unusual activity in the skies in the '50s? It was us,' the government agency tweeted yesterday
The CIA explained that the UFO sightings were actually linked to them testing U-2 spy planes at altitudes of over 60,000 feet
In 1960, the Soviet Union shot down a plane that was trying to enter the Soviet Union by going to Pakistan's air space to Norway's air space

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/new.....liens.html

[gaijin]

CIA says at least HALF of all UFO sightings in the 1950's and 60's were spy planes, NOT aliens

the other half were illegal aliens?

[sarcasmic]

Caught on camera! Thief's plan to blow up an ATM backfires as he's knocked off his feet by the blast

One man's attempt to blow up an automatic teller machine backfires
He ran off down the street after being knocked off his feet
NT Police want him for two attacks on ATMs in the past week

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/new.....blast.html

[Rufus J. Firefly]

"Liberia will suspend its Ebola curfew for one night"

Liberia? There's a second LIBERtarian country in Africa after Somalia?

[gaijin]

Teh Ebolaz could not be reached for comment

[sarcasmic]

Caught on camera: Dramatic moment an off-duty cop slams screaming woman against car in a parking lot 'after she rear-ended him'

Police in San Jose, California, said the unknown woman bit their officer
Video shows pair shouting and tussling before she escapes with sister
Clip's author claimed officer in shorts and sunglasses showed no badge
But police confirmed they employed him and said it followed a car shunt

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/new.....d-him.html

[Ted S.]

Did the video catch the alleged rear-ending?

[sarcasmic]

Nope. Just the brave officer roughing up a couple women.

[Ted S.]

Local TV last night showed a cop dashcam of him getting dragged from a traffic stop. Of course the cop video catches that and never the stuff where they're accused of wrongdoing.

[R C Dean]

Says he was off-duty.

So, when this happened, he was not a cop, but just an ordinary citizen. Looks to me like these two women fought off an assault. If anyone needs to be charged, its him.

[sarcasmic]

Parents outraged after Hasbro made phallic kids' toy for Play Doh cake decorating set

Moms and dads buying Sweet Shoppe Cake Mountain Playset got surprise
Risqu? 'extruder' part is meant to be filled with colored frosting
Took to social media to attack Hasbro's unfortunate design decision
Hasbro has redesigned the part and offered parents a free replacement
Some saw the funnier side of the story and said outrage was overblown

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/new.....g-set.html

[Swiss Servator, Winter...jetzt]

"and said outrage was overblown"

A battle cry for our age.

[Rich]

In this case, the outrage wasn't the only thing "overblown". ***winkwinknudgenudge***

[Swiss Servator, Winter...jetzt]

Yes, what they did there, I saw it.

[Rod Flash]

The replacement part looks like a banana colored female reproductive organ. I hope they did that on purpose.

[Rich]

The piece in question, which is around the length of a thumb, is a mock frosting applicator

Emphasis added. Those pedophile BASTARDS!

[Tonio]

Also, Hasbro has been disappearing parent's complaints about this from their (Hasbro's) FB site. Parents not happy, posting screen captures. Another lesson in The Streisand Effect.

[Zeb]

I suppose they could have left off the little foreskin looking decorations. But it's form is mostly just functional.

[sarcasmic]

Couple thrown in JAIL for being unable to pay court fees on traffic ticket they received visiting dying son in hospital

Tim Fugatt, music pastor from Alabama, and his wife were arrested in 2012 over failure to pay court fees
Fugatt received traffic ticket on his way home from visiting his terminally ill son in 2010, but judge found him not guilty
Despite being cleared of wrongdoing, the judge decided Fugatt and his wife must pay $500 in court costs
Their case was taken over by private debt collector, which in 2012 issued a warrant for the Fugatts' arrest when they fell behind on their payments

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/new.....uilty.html

[Doctor Whom]

Their case was taken over by private debt collector

See? It's all the doing of the private sector! Government is, yet again, blameless! [/my progressive acquaintances]

[Tonio]

Why the fuck does the government need to hire a private collection agency? They have the cops and courts? Cronyism? Or trying to put lipstick on the pig?

[Zeb]

And a private debt collector that can issue warrants? Isn't that a bounty hunter? I guess bounty hunters work for bondsmen, really.

[Stormy Dragon]

Because the private collector can be all civil rights violation-y, giving the court all the benefits of a police states while still having enough plausible deniability to avoid being held responsible for it.

[Ted S.]

Maybe they'll die in jail like the mom who couldn't pay her kid's rruancy fines.

[Bones]

Private debt collectors can issue warrants for arrest?!

[R C Dean]

Yet another example to show people when you point out that any law, any law at all, even the most trivial traffic or parking ordinance, is a demand that obedience be enforced with violence.

[sarcasmic]

For the libertarian ladies (and homos, nttawwt):

Half-naked heroes and baby animals? what more could you want! Shirtless firefighters pose with puppies for 2015 charity calendar

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/fem.....endar.html

[Swiss Servator, Winter...jetzt]

There are no libertarian ladies, yes?

[Ted S.]

Austrian Young Farmers' calendar

There's one with men, and one with women.

[Rich]

NSFW. Get ready for a roll, roll, roll in the hay ?.

[Swiss Servator, Winter...jetzt]

This would equal Happy New Year!

http://jungbauernkalender.at/k.....012/girls/

[sarcasmic]

Thanks for the NSFW warning.

[$park?'s head exploded]

Oh my!

[Swiss Servator, Winter...jetzt]

Plots move to become Landwirt in Osterreich.

[Scruffy Nerfherder]

Mein Gott

[R C Dean]

[emails link to home for leisurely perusal]

[sarcasmic]

Good idea. Wait a sec. I've got a smart phone now (Christmas) and non-corporate WIFI at work. Hmmmm.....

[Rich]

Gun owners fear Maryland cops target them for traffic stops

"The MDTA Police conducted a review of the traffic stop and have concluded that the stop and subsequent search of the vehicle were justified," spokesman Jonathan Green wrote in an emailed statement.

Alrighty then.

[Doctor Whom]

We have investigated ourselves and have cleared ourselves of all wrongdoing.

[Juice]

Didn't violate protocols...except the 4th amendment.

[Juice]

And fuck MD. It's small enough to drive around. AN extra hour of driving is well worth it to avoid the state.

[Warty]

Challenge: Identify the biggest asshole here. I say the parents, but the quack counselor makes a strong case, and so does the opportunistic politician. The kid's note makes it sound like she might have killed herself to punish her parents, so maybe she's a strong contender too. I dunno. What a sordid story.

[Swiss Servator, Winter...jetzt]

I am trying to have a cheery day, O Lifter of Vast Weights. I think I may skip that link, if you please.

[Warty]

Sad feelings are your brain's way of telling you to deadlift more.

[Swiss Servator, Winter...jetzt]

I think deadlifting is the answer to many of life's little situations.

[$park?'s head exploded]

Anyone who kills themselves deserves to die. I'm sure the moron kid saw "herself" as some kind of martyr.

And I love the mom's quote about going home to heaven.

[John]

I agree with you about adults, but I blame kids' suicides on the parents. Kids are stupid and have no perspective. It is the adults' job to give them that perspective. When a kid kills himself it is nearly always because the adults failed in that job and the kid let his lack of perspective cause him to think life was hopeless.

[$park?'s head exploded]

Sure, I wouldn't say the parents are completely blameless. But, the world is better off without people that can't hack it.

[Bo Cara Esq.]

What a classy fellow you are.

[$park?'s head exploded]

Thanks.

[John]

No. The world is better off if people do hack it and don't do it. I would never say the world is better off without this or any other kid. I would have been better if he had lived.

[Bo Cara Esq.]

This

[$park?'s head exploded]

Sorry, I just don't hold the view that every sperm is sacred. People who are habitually depressed are a drain on everyone around them. Better that one depressed person die than their whole family suffer through it.

[Tonio]

And that might be a more defensible position on it's own merits but your demonstrated animus towards trans people kind of turds up the punchbowl, Sparks.

[$park?'s head exploded]

Huh? I have no issue with trans people. My issue is with people who kill themselves.

[Tonio]

Then don't put their gender pronouns in shock quotes.

[$park?'s head exploded]

The kid is a boy. The boy thinks of himself as a girl. He is not really a girl, therefore quotes were used. Kinda like when someone makes a "gun" out of a Pop Tart. It's not really a gun, it's a gun-shaped Pop Tart.

If the boy wants to dress and act like a girl, I don't really care. If he feels he can't get through life that way, then good riddance.

[Scruffy Nerfherder]

If he feels he can't get through life that way, then good riddance.

While I get your point, a child suicide is an avoidable tragedy that reflects poorly on everyone involved.

[$park?'s head exploded]

Sure it does. Everyone should want to live. And those that don't should get it over with so everyone can move on. Perhaps we as humans should stop making a big deal of people killing themselves, maybe then it won't happen as often.

[Scruffy Nerfherder]

I can see an argument for shaming the dead in the case of suicide as a method of preventing more suicides. It definitely trends within families as the next generation has the example set for them.

[Cdr Lytton]

Better that one depressed person die than their whole family suffer through it.

The family's suffering doesn't end with their death.

[Stormy Dragon]

Yes, because families never suffer after their children, siblings, spouses, or parents commit suicide.

[Steve G]

Thirded.

[John]

I would say the parents. But it is a close call. The ironic thing about our new obsession with "transgender" is that it is much more repressive than the old way of looking at genders. The "transgendered" view enforces the same oppressive and rigid view of gender than as the most conservative views of gender do. It basically tells any male who is effeminate or any female who is masculine that they really are not what they are. You can't be male if you are effeminate, you must be a female and you can't be female if you are masculine. The whole thing is absurd and harmful. Rather than telling people to just be who they are, we are telling them that they are freaks whose body doesn't match what they actually are. The kid was not a woman. He was a male who wasn't very masculine and liked to pretend he was a woman. The answer they should have given should have been "if pretending to be a woman is what makes you happy, that is okay". The answer shouldn't be "you feel this way because you are a freak born into the wrong body".

[sarcasmic]

*Gasp*

Gender is not determined by plumbing!

It's a state of mind!

You, you, you.... Ugh! I can't even come up with a word to describe you!

/femiderp

[waffles]

$hitlord?

[Auric Demonocles]

I'll occasionally see the argument that since the brains of transgendered people often are more similar to the opposite gender it proves that their body is wrong. That's crazy. Your body is what it is. The brain scan just proves that there is some underlying reason for their delusion.

[Bo Cara Esq.]

God made you that way, amirite?!

[John]

No. You are what you are. If you like to live by the social norms of being the other gender, it means just that, you like pretending you are or living as something you are not. It doesn't mean you are a woman. It just means you like to pretend you are one. That is it.

The idea that someone could be a woman's brain trapped in a man's body is unscientific nonsense. The body is what it is. And it is our bodies that give us our gender not our brains or our preferences. To say otherwise is to say a man who finds being the other gender preferable or desirable is some kind of defective person. That nature or God screwed up and put the wrong brain with the wrong body. Telling people this is our way of showing tolerance and compassion? Really?

[Citizen Nothing]

So here's a serious question. If, in the future, actual sex change becomes possible, through brain transplants, genetic therapy, whatever, would one's birth gender still determine one's "real" gender?

[sarcasmic]

You can't turn an X into a Y.

[Zeb]

You can't turn an X into a Y.

That really adds nothing to the discussion. It's obviously true, yes.

Men and women are different psychologically, I think that is obvious. And when people talk about gender, those differences are often what they mean, not just genetically determined sex. Some evidence does suggest that transgendered people's minds are more like those of the opposite sex. If that is the case, I don't see how it is unreasonable to say that such a person is in some sense of the other gender.

You may not like the terminology, fine. But it's not like people are just faking it to get attention. And what is it to you if someone wants to use a different pronoun or if someone without a dick comes and uses the men's room?

[sarcasmic]

As a software developer I'll admit that I'm quite anal about terminology. The difference between a working program and something that crashes could be as simple as a wrong word. Words mean things. They don't mean what you want them to mean. They mean what they mean.

[Zeb]

They don't mean what you want them to mean. They mean what they mean.

That's certainly the case with software. In natural language it's a bit different. Yeah, you can't arbitrarily use words for whatever you want them to mean and be able to communicate with other people. But meanings do change and expand. Even if you disagree with the changing definition, you know what people mean when they say "transgender".

[sarcasmic]

you know what people mean when they say "transgender".

Yep. "Mentally ill, but we can't say that because the truth is politically incorrect."

Or at least that's what I hear.

[Zeb]

I'm sort of inclined to see it that way too. It really isn't like being gay. The problem isn't just with society's acceptance of you. You have something wrong inside of you. If it is possible to "cure" it, I would agree that that would probably be the better option for most people than trying to create a gender identity that can never really be completely satisfying.
But it may be that it is not something curable (at least not any time soon). In that case, if using different pronouns helps, I'm OK with that.

[sarcasmic]

if using different pronouns helps, I'm OK with that.

Like "it?"

[sarcasmic]

A transgendered bird.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sci.....inois.html

[Zeb]

People tend to get a little touchy about using "it" to refer to people. But if your identity is as a genderless object, why not?

[John]

First, I don't think that will be possible. I am not seeing how it could be. But even if it were, that would be actually and fully transforming yourself into something else. It doesn't change what a male or a female is. It would just allow you to fully become one or the other, in a complete and fundamental way that the current sex change operations do not.

It is not that your birth gender necessarily determines your gender forever. Maybe someday there will be this magic technology that you are talking about. Even if there is, however, that won't change what you are before and after the procedure. If you are a man who wants the magic operation to become a woman, you are not a woman in a man's body or some kind of defective man. You are a man who wants to change into something else. The definition is what it is regardless of whether you get gender by birth or some incredible medical procedure.

[Bo Cara Esq.]

If you have a man who wants to change into a woman what's gained by telling him 'no, no, you're not a woman in a man's body, you're a man who just wants to be a woman.' It seems to at the least be an acceptable metaphor for his experience.

[John]

Because you are teaching him to learn to accept himself as he is Bo. That is what is gained. What is gained by telling someone who thinks they are from outer space that they are not? You have a guy who just wants to believe he is an alien. Why should anyone try and debase him of that notion?

You doing a tremendous amount of harm by telling someone who beleive they are really a woman that they are right. You are telling them that yes "you really are a freak born with something deeply and fundamentally wrong with you". Instead, the answer should be "you don't feel this way because you are a woman or you are defective, you feel this way because that is how you feel and you can't choose your tastes or desires. Therefore you should accept who you are and not try and change yourself into something else".

The problem is that these people can't accept themselves. Changing their bodies doesn't help. It doesn't get them to accept or be happy with themselves.

[Bo Cara Esq.]

"It doesn't get them to accept or be happy with themselves."

This is a premise you keep relying on, do you have some support for this? Just curious.

[John]

Yes Bo, it is well known. Do a google search if you don't believe me. But here is just one example.

There is no conclusive evidence that sex change operations improve the lives of transsexuals, with many people remaining severely distressed and even suicidal after the operation, according to a medical review conducted exclusively for Guardian Weekend tomorrow.

The review of more than 100 international medical studies of post-operative transsexuals by the University of Birmingham's aggressive research intelligence facility (Arif) found no robust scientific evidence that gender reassignment surgery is clinically effective.

http://www.theguardian.com/soc.....ntalhealth

The doctor at Johns Hopkins who developed the procedure stopped doing them several years ago because he concluded he could no longer ethically do them since they were not helping his patients.

[Bo Cara Esq.]

OK, thanks. The wikipedia page on it, and the studies cited therein, seem to indicate it's not quite as settled of a matter as you're suggesting however.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S.....nt_therapy

[Bo Cara Esq.]

And again, I don't think the premise even if true leads to your conclusion. As I've said, if it were shown that elective cosmetic surgeries such as nose or 'boob' jobs did not make most people happier years later should we try to talk people who want them out of them and should doctors refuse to perform them?

[Citizen Nothing]

First, I don't think that will be possible.

I don't think you give science and human ingenuity and the common desire for new experiences and to remake one's self enough credit.
I think that in a few decades, if you're a short white woman who wants to "be" a tall black man (forever, or just temporarily), you'll be able to.
Are you a short white woman forever, because you were born that way? Perhaps. Perhaps not.

[Bo Cara Esq.]

That reminds me of a famous example: Michael Jackson. Let's say he was actually unhappy with his appearance and wanted to be appear more like a white person, and he could afford surgeries to do so. Should we try to talk him out of it by telling him to accept how he looks? Should a doctor refuse to do the surgery? I don't think so. It's his body and his choice, to use a hackneyed cliche.

[Bobarian (Mr. Xtreme)]

Michael Jackson? All those changes obviously helped him feel better about himself, right?

I don't think that data point supports your arguement.

[Warty]

In a Culture future where true DNA-level remapping is possible, sure you could change your gender at will. Why not?

[John]

If that ever happens Warty, have at it. I think more likely is that they develop virtual reality to such a degree that people can try being the other gender for short periods without changing their DNA.

Color me skeptical that we will ever be able to change are DNA at will without suffering side effects.

[sarcasmic]

I figure we'll be able to change DNA round the same time we develop conscious AI, fusion power, and a practical electric car. IOW it will forever be just over the horizon.

[Warty]

Of course all of those things will happen. Infinity is a long time.

[sarcasmic]

Mankind has got to know. His limitations.

[sarcasmic]

Warty, those things are the equivalent of turning lead into gold.

[Warty]

Which we can do now.

[sarcasmic]

Um, yeah. One atom at a time, using extremely large amounts of energy. Not exactly practical.

[Warty]

All it takes is energy. You're thinking provincially. Infinity is a long time.

[Warty]

Furthermore, why are practical electric cars on your list? They exist right now, you yokel.

[Bobarian (Mr. Xtreme)]

They're practical for playing a round of golf.

[sarcasmic]

Furthermore, why are practical electric cars on your list? They exist right now, you yokel.

No they don't. Not if you need to travel any significant distance.

[Warty]

But they exist, and people get around with them just fine, and they're practical for them. Your biases don't mean you get to change what words mean.

[sarcasmic]

If it ain't practical for me, then it ain't practical. I don't give a shit about golfers and ancients humming around on their electric carts.

[Bobarian (Mr. Xtreme)]

Warty, Infinity is a long time, but your supposition assumes that we'll be around for it.

[Zeb]

Remapping your DNA won't rebuild your brain. And that's where gender, as distinguished from sex, lives.

[Warty]

These discussions always remind me of herpetologists insisting that snakes aren't poisonous, they're venomous. It's a distinction without a difference.

And mind-body dualism is a religious superstition. You don't have a body, you are your body. Your mind is your body.

[sarcasmic]

These discussions always remind me of herpetologists insisting that snakes aren't poisonous, they're venomous. It's a distinction without a difference.

Really? So you see no difference between eating a thing and being poisoned, and something biting you and injecting venom?

Words mean things.

[Warty]

Ooo, I hurt your feelings and you became joe. Excellent. Are you short as well as closeted?

[sarcasmic]

Hurt my feelings? Don't flatter yourself, Bo.

[Warty]

Mmmm. That's good stuff.

[Zeb]

I still think sex/gender is a meaningful distinction that doesn't require a belief in dualism. The mind has physical origins, but that doesn't mean that it is identical with the body.
People have been trying to figure this out for thousands of years, so I doubt we will make much progress here. Stuff is what it is and people should do what they want.

[Zeb]

And the point stands that changing your genetics won't re-wire your brain.

[John]

The transgendered movement is taking a personal preference and turning it into a life changing physical defect. It used to be that people who liked to pretend they were the other gender were considered to have odd or objectionable tastes. Now thanks to the transgendered movement they are considered to be physically defective freaks.

I understand the desire that people have for acceptance. And I think society and people in general need to be more accepting of people's choices of how to live, be that owning 500 guns or wearing a skirt or both. But if the price of forcing acceptance is telling people their minds and brains are defective, maybe we should live with intolerance.

[Bo Cara Esq.]

I don't know John. Some people feel out if sorts with their bodies. Technology has made it so they can now change their bodies if they want. So what? Let them follow their preferences. I don't see the big deal.

[John]

They feel that way and the results of 30+ years of doing those surgeries is that they don't help. The people feel better for a short time but eventually fall into the same problems they have before. Sex change surgery has been shown time and again not to help people or make them any better adjusted.

I think it is time we re-look how we view this behavior. We should view it with actual acceptance and try and get people to accept who they are rather than telling them that the problem is they need to radically change their bodies, because that isn't helping.

[Bo Cara Esq.]

If the studies show it doesn't help, then at most a therapist should inform the patient of that, but then it should be up to the patient. If they truly feel it's for them, let them try it. I wouldn't try to talk them out of it because some statistically significant number of people who tried it found it didn't make them ultimately happier.

[tarran]

I think it is time we re-look how we view this behavior. We should view it with actual acceptance and try and get people to accept who they are rather than telling them that the problem is they need to radically change their bodies, because that isn't helping.

You are looking at this the wrong way; we should research a way to have people change genders at will, like in an Ian Banks or Walter Jon Williams novel. 😉

[$park?'s head exploded]

Who pays for the operation?

[Bo Cara Esq.]

It should be them of course. No one should have to pay for anyone else's pursuit of happiness.

[SIV]

Some people feel out if sorts with their bodies. Technology has made it so they can now change their bodies if they want. So what? Let them follow their preferences. I don't see the big deal.

If the kid thought his left arm was a foreign entity and wanted it amputated then let him wait till he is 18 to cut it off if he can find someone to do it.

[Zeb]

I imagine it would be hard to find someone willing to do sex change surgery on a minor. I would hope so.

Transgender doesn't mean sex change surgery. Most transgender people don't go all the way like that.

[Andrew S.]

I've been known to make that argument, but it is true. It's ingrained, similar to homosexuality. It doesn't affect me if a man wants to put on a dress and live as a woman, so why should I give a shit?

[sarcasmic]

It doesn't affect me if a man wants to put on a dress and live as a woman, so why should I give a shit?

Because you're supposed to celebrate it! Diversity is wonderful! If you don't support it then you oppose it! That makes you a bad person! Why do you want to be a bad person?

[Andrew S.]

I'm not going to celebrate it, but I'm not going to go with "YOU WERE BORN WITH A PENIS YOU MUST DRESS AND ACT LIKE A MAN YOU WEIRD FUCK". I'll just go with the flow. Deal?

[Tonio]

That's my position too, Andy, but the SoCons here get all screechy when you don't tow the lion.

[John]

I don't care. People should be able to dress as they want. At the same time, i think it is very damaging and awful for therapists and others to tell such a guy that he is really not a man but some kind of defective hybrid who needs to mutilate his body to be happy.

We should be telling that guy to be happy with the body he has and dress or act in whatever way suits him and that he or she is fine as they are.

[Bo Cara Esq.]

I think we should be telling people do what makes you happy as long as it doesn't hurt anyone. If a dude would feel more comfortable changing his parts, go nuts (or rather the opposite). It's great that we live in a time and place where people can do that without being stoned for not acting the 'right' way.

[John]

Again, you are talking about a medical procedure and medical professionals who are recommending the procedure as a way to deal with real issues. The science shows that that procedure doesn't help. That it doesn't make the people who have it any better adjusted or any happier in the long run.

Suppose a group of people decided tomorrow that having a kidney removed or their appendix removed had all of these psychological and health benefits and started doing it. And the science later revealed that this was of course nonsense and that these people were having surgeries that were not helping them at all and in fact in many cases hurting them. Should we outlaw people having such surguries? No. It is their body and they can harm it if they like. But just because we shouldn't ban it doesn't make it responsible for therapists and medical professionals to be sanctioning it or viewing it as any kind of a solution to the person's problems. At this point, given the record, I don't see how a doctor can consistent with their Hippocratic oath do sex change operations. How do you do an operation that science shows doesn't help, even if the patient wants it?

[Bo Cara Esq.]

We kind of have an example with things like circumcision. Let's say the science said that it had no medical value, but people really wanted it done for religious and other personal reasons. I don't think doctors should talk them out of it because studies find it has no medical benefit.

Or take breast implants for aesthetic reasons. Let's say studies showed that women got them because they thought it would make them more attractive and happier, but they ultimately were not more happy. Should docs stop offering to do that procedure?

[Rhywun]

But what if John is right - that these guys are maybe only having the operation because therapists 'convince' them it's the right thing to do?

[Bo Cara Esq.]

Oh, I agree there, the doctors should not be pushing the clients either way.

[Rhywun]

Late to the party again...

But IMHO - if the science says the surgery does not 'work', then therapists should not be pushing it as a cure-all. I would expect the results would be way fewer men seeking to become women. Perhaps some would, and that is their right.

[Zeb]

How common is actual sex-reassignment surgery? As far as I know it is pretty rare, even among people identifying as transgender. It may well be unhelpful, as John suggests. But I don't think it is the right thing to focus on when talking about transgender.

[Auric Demonocles]

It does affect me once people start trying to make me lie to humor him. If he wants to wear a dress, fine, no problem, but he's still a man. A transgender man is not a woman trapped in a man's body. He's a man who wishes he was a woman, and there is a difference between the two.

[Andrew S.]

Why? Who cares? Just grit your teeth and go with it.

Nah, I don't have a problem with it. There are the people out there who think it's transphobic if a guy gets freaked out if the "woman" he goes out with ends up having a penis. Now that one I can't understand.

[Citizen Nothing]

Trust, but verify.

[Auric Demonocles]

Why? Who cares?

Non-liars, which should be everyone.

[Bo Cara Esq.]

You go Auric, those names aren't going to rectify themselves!

[Zeb]

That's not what lying is.

[Auric Demonocles]

Calling a man a woman is lying.

[$park?'s head exploded]

+1 categorical imperative

[Bo Cara Esq.]

Auric must call them as they see it, though the heavens fall!

[Zeb]

A transgender man is not a woman trapped in a man's body. He's a man who wishes he was a woman, and there is a difference between the two.

How do you know that? And is there a real difference? Obviously you can't literally be trapped in the wrong body. But it seems like some people do really have the psyche/brain structure of the wrong sex.

[Auric Demonocles]

No, they have a brain that's fucked up.

[Stormy Dragon]

Your body is what it is.

Sorry, no treatment for your cancer! Your body just is what it is, and in your case what it is is a tumor.

[Auric Demonocles]

If someone claims to not have a tumor when they do, they are wrong.

[Juice]

He's trying to make the point that the tumor is something wrong and that you should do something about it, not leave it as is. This is obviously a terrible analogy to being born a certain sex, which is normal and will not kill you. Well, being alive will eventually kill you, but you know what I mean.

[Stormy Dragon]

Perhaps a better analogy would be diabetes. It can be controlled via diet and lifestyle, but it's easier to treat by artificial insulin (a hormone!) supplements.

No one would say "instead of giving diabetics hormone therapy, we should be trying to get them to accept the reality of what they are!:

[Zeb]

I'm no expert, but it seems that gender dysphoria does seem to be a legitimate phenomenon. It's not people who are more effeminate or masculine than typical of their sex. It is people who genuinely feel like they are the wrong sex.

I have no idea what would be the healthiest or best way to deal with such a condition. I have plenty of doubts about how wise it is to have sex change surgery, or let young children live as the other gender. But it's not for me to say. People should live as they see fit. If someone wants to use a pronoun with a gender that doesn't match their biological sex, it's no skin off my nose.

And I think you will find that a lot of the people who are concerned about transgender issues do have a lot more nuance to their view of gender identity than you give them credit for.

The big question I have is whether it is better to treat transgender as something like being gay, and encourage people to be open and happy with their sexual identity, or if it would be more beneficial to treat it as a disorder. I' a bit inclined to the latter. Unlike being gay, it does seem to be something of a disorder. Maybe it is impossible to treat. It may have to do with structural aspects of the brain that can't be changed. But if it is possible to treat it and make people comfortable with their bodies, that seems preferable to adopting a different gender identity.

As I say, I'm far from any kind of expert on this. And people should do whatever makes them happy.

[SIV]

The politician, hands down. How does a purported queued tumbr post end up, not on tumblr but as a politician's facebook post? And against the wishes of the grieving parents as well.The kid sounds pretty confused as well as he doesn't seem clear on whether he thought he was a gay male or a "trans-woman". 16 y/os don't have a right to receive elective cosmetic medical procedures (they should have the right to refuse psychological counseling quackery but it is not clear that this one did).

1. Politician

2. Media

3. Minor child

4. Quack

5. Parents

[Juice]

"she"

[Certified Public Asskicker]

I assume Sports Talk radio is terrible all over the country, but I am beginning to think Ravens fans in particular are insufferable assholes (my buddies included).

So the Ravens are in the playoffs for the 6th time in 7 years. Statistically, the offense is 12th in yards and 8th in points. The defense is 8th in yards and 6th in points. Yes they played questionably down the stretch, but overall there isn't much to be too negative about.

But fuck me if everyone is all down in the dumps because even if we "somehow beat Pittsburgh," we'll never beat New England in NE, even though we have before. Fuck all of you, and if your that miserable, don't even watch or follow the team.

[Swiss Servator, Winter...jetzt]

Nah, that kind of pessimism is normal all over. I know some Packer fans who wrote the season off after their last loss...I just laugh and point at the Bears and say "rather be a fan of them, like me?"

[Ted S.]

Please take Brad Jones off our hands.

And Shawn Slocum too. 🙂

[BiMonSciFiCon]

And Kuhn, just so McCarthy never gives him the ball again.

[Old Man With Candy]

After wasting a Monday night at Soldiers' watching the Bears imitating a Pop Warner team on quaaludes, I don't understand how anyone could be a fan of theirs.

[Swiss Servator, Winter...jetzt]

I blame geography...and growing up with Dick Butkus, Doug Buffone, Walter Payton, et al.

[Bobarian (Mr. Xtreme)]

I gave up on Da Bears when they fired Ditka, for not making the play-offs for the first time in 6 or 7 years.

[Bo Cara Esq.]

The Ravens usually handle the Patriots quite well in the playoffs, don't they? And if Bell doesn't play for the Steelers there chances there should be excellent.

[Certified Public Asskicker]

At the very least, we usually keep the games close.

[TwB]

Ha. It's true, they really don't have much to complain about at all, I mean they won the Super Bowl 2 years ago! So what if they lose in the playoffs this year, they have a team set up to win consistently for the foreseeable future.

[Warty]

Ravens fans in particular are insufferable assholes

Yes.

[Citizen Nothing]

This time of year, I get exactly one week to feel sorry for all my friends who are Browns fans. And at the end of that week, we Bengals fans are in exactly the same boat. (Still, I'd rather play the Colts than try to beat the Ravens for a third time. I don't think any team can beat any other three times in a season.)

[Warty]

Are you kidding? This year was great. I got to watch the Browns blow out the Steelers for the first time in 11 years and I got to see Manziel fail more utterly and hilariously than anyone dared dream. Don't feel sorry for us. Other than about the Art Modell and Baltimore stealing the real Browns and us being saddled with a pitiful bunch of impostors thing, I mean.

[Certified Public Asskicker]

You see Josh Gordon coming back?

[Warty]

It's precisely as likely as Manziel becoming an elite quarterback. Gordon doesn't want to be here. Hell, I don't think he really wants to be an NFL player.

[Swiss Servator, Winter...jetzt]

"I was gonna be an NFL All-Star, instead I got high..."

[Swiss Servator, Winter...jetzt]

"I don't think any team can beat any other three times in a season."

The Packers could beat the Bears 10 out of 10.

[Old Man With Candy]

But fuck me

And especially, fuck you.

[Warty]

GIVE ME MY SUPER BOWLS YOU FUCK

[Old Man With Candy]

You have them. After all, you keep claiming that the Ravens are actually the Browns. If you truly believe that, problem solved. If you somehow have the crazy notion that the Browns are the Browns, well, you're fucked.

[Warty]

I have them? This is a novel argument. Go on.

[Swiss Servator, Winter...jetzt]

Did you check your mailbox?

[Warty]

I'm not seeing anything. Maybe gmail is taking a while to forward it.

[Warty]

Wait, is this you from December 4th? I replied. Did it not get to you?

[Swiss Servator, Winter...jetzt]

I meant for Superbowls...

[Warty]

Oh. Goddammit.

[Old Man With Candy]

The novel argument is that the Ravens are the Browns, which I've seen you make repeatedly. If you're deluded enough to believe that (and anyone who claims to be a Browns fan is prima facie deluded), you've had a fuckton of playoff appearances and a couple of Super Bowl rings.

[Warty]

Your brain appears to be malfunctioning. Maybe some bacon would help?

[Warty]

Let me spell it out. The Ravens are indeed the real Browns, stolen and ruined and with a stupid name and given to a horrible group of people with an accent that's just slightly more tolerable than Yinzers'. I'd no more be happy for their success than you would be for the Colts. But you knew all this.

[Old Man With Candy]

The Colts no longer exist. I don't play make-believe that the Evil Irsays are somehow Colts of any sort. Johnny Unitas concurred. And you, sir, are no Johnny Unitas.

[Old Man With Candy]

And my apologies for using words of more than one syllable to a Browns fan.

[Juice]

Nothing compared to Eagles fans.

[gaijin]

Culture of lowered expectations...it's a shorter fall if you're already down in the dumps.

[Notorious G.K.C.]

"even if we "somehow beat Pittsburgh," we'll never beat New England in NE"

Nevermore, heh heh!

They named themselves after Poe's raven, didn't they?

[Andrew S.]

They did.

No fan of a team that wins a Super Bowl should be allowed to complain about their team for at least 20 years.

And Redskins fans should never be allowed to complain. Because fuck them. I hope they're 2-14 for eternity.

[mousefeathers]

"No fan of a team that wins a Super Bowl should be allowed to complain about their team for at least 20 years."

Not even Rams fans? Surely there are two or three of them left to complain.

[Old Man With Candy]

But fuck me

Yes. Fuck you.

[John]

You have to be a real dumbass to be a Ravens fan and not think they have the ability to win out on the road in the playoffs. They have been doing that for years. I am not saying they are going to do it, but anyone who thinks they have no chance to win the AFC is a moron. How many times has New England had home field and blew it? A ton. And the only team worse than New England about blowing home field is the Broncos and Peyton Manning in particular. If it wasn't for Manning being such a choke artist in the playoffs, people would be talking about Brady being one. I like New England's chances probably better than anyone's in the AFC, but no way do I have any confidence in either them or the Broncos to go to the Super Bowl.

[Warty]

In ordinary years I'd agree with you, but the Ravens have been uncharacteristically unimpressive this year. They were in serious danger of losing to Connor Shaw for most of the day Sunday. They need to remember their history of getting their shit together at the right time.

[Citizen Nothing]

Connor Shaw, quarterback of the future! Actually, Warty, there's no way not to feel sorry for a Browns fan.

[John]

I agree. I don't think they are as good. But they still are not bad and I don't under estimate the ability of Manning or New England to be bad in a big spot.

The problem with the Ravens is that they don't have Ray Lewis and Ed Reed anymore. That defense isn't what it used to be. And Joe Flacco is not the kind of quarterback who can carry a bad defense in the playoffs.

As nice as it is to be able to throw the deep ball, if your defense sucks you are better off having a quarterback who is accurate and can put up long drives and dominate time of possession to keep your lousy defense off the field.

[Old Man With Candy]

That's not the problem. Their linebacking is very strong. And Ed Reed was afraid to actually hit anyone for the last 5 years of his career.

The problem is having to search the unemployment lines and checkout stands at Walmart for a secondary.

[Beautiful Bean Footage]

No they don't. I need New England to be the ultimate backstop against a Packers or Cowboys SB, or worse yet, a Seahawks repeat...

[John]

I am with you on that. But I don't have a lot of confidence in anyone from the AFC winning it this year.

I wouldn't mind a Packers Super Bowl. I like Aaron Rodgers and the upside of them winning would be that they would have five Super Bowls plus all of their titles before the merger. It would give them a lot of ammunition to tell the Steelers fans to shut the fuck up about their Super Bowls, as if championships before 1966, when the Steelers were the worst franchise in the league for decades, didn't count. So there is that.

I just don't want to see Manning or the Broncos winning. God, anything but that. There is no upside to the giant media tongue bath Manning would get if the Broncos win it this year.

[Warty]

The Seahawks or the Packers should be able to run through anyone the AFC sends against them this year.

[John]

I think you are right. I bet it will be Packers Patriots with the Patriots managing to lose a fourth Super Bowl and giving Brady the most interesting and checkered legacy of any quarterback ever.

[Auric Demonocles]

The Packers squeaked out a win versus the Patriots this year with homefield. Why would they be unstoppable at a neutral site?

[BiMonSciFiCon]

I am a Packer fan, and I think it'd be a close game in Arizona. But, I think the Packers offense in a warm weather game would be really really hard for any team to keep up with.

[Andrew S.]

Joe. Flacco.

[Certified Public Asskicker]

Is that a thumbs up or down?

[Andrew S.]

Thumbs down in general, but that goofy fuck has made some kind of deal with the devil with how lucky he tends to get in the playoffs.

[Auric Demonocles]

His playoff status gets overblown because of the amazing run he had in 2012. The rest of the time he's been mediocre to downright awful.

[Andrew S.]

I wonder how many millions of dollars he made (versus how much he otherwise would have made) because of that playoff run.

[Auric Demonocles]

I don't think a player betting on himself in contract extension talks has ever worked out as well.

[Old Man With Candy]

Let's see. 5 years in the playoffs, record of 9-4. 19 TD, 8 interceptions.

Compare that to Manning.Yeah, I'll take Flacco.

[Auric Demonocles]

But again, that's predominately from how insane he was in just 2012. Outside of that he's 5-4 with 8 TDs and 8 INTs.

[Old Man With Candy]

Still better than that dumbass who sells shitty pizza. And you'll have to add in this year's victories, starting with the Steelers.

[Swiss Servator, Winter...jetzt]

Sideways.

[Auric Demonocles]

Assuming that we're talking about the BB/Brady Patriots, I'm counting 3 home playoff losses(2009,2010,2012), and 13 home playoff wins. (They also have 3 road playoff losses, and 2 neutral site/SB losses)

[Auric Demonocles]

Counting up Peyton's, it's 5 home losses (1999,2005,2007,2010,2012) and 8 home wins. He's also got losses on the road 5 times and in the SB twice.

[Red Rocks Rockin]

And the only team worse than New England about blowing home field is the Broncos and Peyton Manning in particular.

You're kidding, right? Manning's definitely a liability when it comes to home field advantage in the playoffs, but Denver's has nearly always been rock-solid at home during this period. I can think of four instances in the last 30 years ('84 and '06 vs Pittsburgh, '96 vs Jacksonville, and '12 vs Baltimore) where they flopped at home despite having a better record and superior team on paper. Seven out of the eight AFC championship games they've been in have been played at home, and they've only lost one, in '06.

Manning's OCD is the real threat to Denver not getting to the Super Bowl, not whether Denver has home field or not. Hell, that's the one advantage Manning probably has, as long as it's not below freezing at kickoff.

[John]

The Broncos haven't been to a Super Bowl since Elway left. Those losses in 06 and 12 are two of the three times they have had home field. Yeah, they won a lot at home in the playoffs with Elway. But he doesn't play there anymore.

[Auric Demonocles]

I mean, they didn't really show up, but they were technically in the Super Bowl last year.

[John]

They were and they beat the Patriots at home to get there. That was the one time since Elway left they have come through.

[Red Rocks Rockin]

Those losses in 06 and 12 are two of the three times they have had home field.

Tim freakin' Tebow won a playoff game at home, then lost the next week at New England. You're right about the Broncos struggling in the playoffs since Elway left, but it typically hasn't been due to choking at home--it's usually been because they've gone on the road and gotten their ass kicked in the process.

Elway lost two playoff games at home during his entire career. Since his retirement, the Broncos have lost--two playoff games at home. Denver's fucking deadly at home in the playoffs, Elway or not. You want to really beat them, you make sure you have your own home field advantage because they nearly always wilt outside of Denver (The Drive being the one exception).

[John]

Tebow was better than people gave him credit for. And the problem with Denver at home in the playoffs, post Elway, is that they have lost twice to inferior teams. That is not exactly deadly.

[Andrew S.]

Fuck Ravens fans. And Steeler fans. And Patriots fans. And Packer fans. And Cowboy fans. And Seahawk fans. And... JUST DAMMIT I JUST WANT ONE SUPER BOWL WHY DO YOU HATE THE EAGLES, FOOTBALL GODS?

:cries:

[Warty]

Because you're named after FDR's bullshit fascist NRA symbol, that's why. "We do our part...to suck."

[Rufus J. Firefly]

They were HOSED on two roughing the passer calls against the Redskins.

[Mike M.]

They got hosed more by their shitty kicker who missed two makeable kicks, including a chip shot that my sister could make.

[Rufus J. Firefly]

They choked no doubt about it.

Still 10-6 with all those injuries.

[John]

Because they cheated by having Chuck Bednarik lay on Jim Taylor until the clock ran out in the 1960 NFL Championship game. They got their title at the cost of justice and the enmity of the Football Gods forever.

[Old Man With Candy]

Because they still reek of Vick.

[Bobarian (Mr. Xtreme)]

All I have to say is fuck the AFC North for getting to play the NFC South.

That is practically cheating.

[Mock-star]

We Yinzers are currently of the mind that even if we "somehow beat Baltimore", etc. etc...

[Rich]

Liberia will suspend its Ebola curfew for one night in order to allow for New Year's Eve church services.

"We wish all Liberians a happy -- and *healthy* -- new year."

[Rufus J. Firefly]

"New York City Mayor Bill de Blasio met privately on Tuesday with police union leader Patrick Lynch, but the mayor and the NYPD apparently failed to patch up their differences. According to one report, "no apology was issued from either side."

NO. KIDDING.

[Notorious G.K.C.]

Let's have more catfights like this between rival groups of statolatrous bullies.

[sarcasmic]

On the radio today some talk show guy was bitching and moaning about how my state's governor plans to change the tax structure, and how it may affect "essential" government services.

Doesn't that imply that there are non essential government services? And if so, why the fuck to they exist in the first place?

[$park?'s head exploded]

Free pancakes.

[some guy]

Your state's governor believes that Government should be doing damn near everything, regardless of whether it is essential. His philosophy regarding government is fundamentally at odds with yours.

[sarcasmic]

Actually, no. Quite the opposite. Progressives hate him.

[JW]

Essential gubmint services? Like the brand spanking new multi-million $ Free Shit Health Center is being built next to the old one, while I drive past it on roads that will shake your fillings loose?

Like that?

[Pope Jimbo]

When we had our shutdown in Minnesoda a while back, our governor designated his cook and his cleaning lady as "essential" employees.

http://www.powerlineblog.com/a.....kes-do.php

So it does make you wonder how bad you have to be to become non essential.

[Rufus J. Firefly]

Someone should start a blog called 'Nightmares with Sears'.

Holy shit dealing with Sears Service is utter insanity. Bunch of incompetent hacks.

[Andrew S.]

Sears still exists?

[Bobarian (Mr. Xtreme)]

It's called 'K-Mart' now.

[Ted S.]

That's what you Canadians get for dealing with an American company.

Shouldn't you be dealing with Hudson Bay or Eaton'''''''''''''''''''''''''''''s or something?

[Rufus J. Firefly]

Yeah but I got a better deal at Sears!

Heh. The apostrophe. Stupid dumbass language zealots in Quebec. That remains the epitome of their insecure retardation.

Eaton's is dead.

[some guy]

How does it compare to dealing with Comcast?

[Swiss Servator, Winter...jetzt]

The difference between incompetence and outright malice?

[Tonio]

From one of the NYT articles about the NYPD slowdown following the deaths of two cops, this gem of a comment:

Let the great libertarian experiment begin.

As noted by others here, this is really putting the proggies in a bind.

[The Laconic]

I'm starting to think that people don't know or care what "libertarian" means. IS THAT EVEN POSSIBLE?

[Tonio]

Well, some of the other commenters got it partially right by realizing that if 94% of pre-slowdown arrests were for bullshit or victimless crimes.

These are our teachable moments.

[The Laconic]

I agree. That's the irony. To the extent that it is, in fact, a great libertarian experiment, it seems to be working just swimmingly.

[Warty]

http://www.maleallies.com/

Oh my. Curses to nicole for showing me that.

[The Laconic]

If there's a better way to present ideas than through a bingo card, I haven't seen it.

[Tonio]

"We pay for expert diversity advice."

No, not a shakedown or a racket, nope...

[Scruffy Nerfherder]

"Our job descriptions list only skills, not nice-to-haves"

What?

[Rhywun]

"Nobody wants to work for me - I wonder why?"

[Old Man With Candy]

The first person who shows me something like that as a serious thing is fired.

Holy. Shit.

[Rufus J. Firefly]

Before I forget...

Happy New Year to one and all.

Except Norwegians.

/narrows gaze.

[Swiss Servator, Winter...jetzt]

*Joins in wishes and narrowing of gaze*

[Tonio]

Oh, it's NYD in Canada? Happy Canuckistani New Year, Rufe.

[Rufus J. Firefly]

Except, it's 3043 a.d. here.

[Pope Jimbo]

Uffda!

Why the hate for the Norskies Rufus? I know from personal experience that your Canuck brethren like their visits to NW Minnesoda on your precious long weekends in the summer.

[Rufus J. Firefly]

Norwegians raped me.

[Warty]

Gyms are marketed to idiots. Duh.

Planet Fitness has bagel breakfasts once a month and pizza dinners. Those are its busiest times. It also has massage chairs. Other gyms have mixers and movie nights and spa treatments.

Fucking Planet Fitness.

[Auric Demonocles]

This isn't a new thing. They've been doing it for years. Hell, just look at their marketing campaign: "Do you hate people who have big muscles? Us too!"

The next 2-3 weeks at the gym is going to suck.

[Tonio]

You missed the best part of the article which is where they explain why PF membership only costs $10 per month. The few people who do workout there regularly are heavily subsidized by those who sign up and only go once.

We should really applaud those lessons in remedial economics, especially when they come from places like NPR.

[Warty]

Oh yes, I know. Ordinarily this is a good thing, but Planet Fitness ruins even that by getting rid of everything that makes ordinary shitty gyms even slightly worthwhile.

[Irish]

Jesus. I'm a lazy bastard and still make it to the gym five times a week.

These people should squat more.

[Rufus J. Firefly]

You're a strange kind of lazy.

I tend to procrastinate.

[Irish]

It really is not difficult to make it to the gym 4-5 times a week. You really do just need to make it part of your daily routine then it becomes a habit.

If there's one thing lazy people hate, it's having to form new habits. Therefore, my lazy inertia actually becomes a benefit when it comes to going to the gym. It would just be too exhausting to figure out what else to do with my time.

[Auric Demonocles]

At least for me, it helps with traffic a lot too.

[Red Rocks Rockin]

It really is not difficult to make it to the gym 4-5 times a week. You really do just need to make it part of your daily routine then it becomes a habit.

You don't even really need to go to the gym. I did P90X right at home and lost 30 pounds. There's a ton of decent workout programs that you can put right into your Bloo-Ray player and never have to leave the house. Hell, stuff like Insanity doesn't even require weights, it's just a bunch of jumping and flailing around.

[Scruffy Nerfherder]

I go to the gym for the pool. I can do pushups in my living room.

[Auric Demonocles]

That's what usually happens when I get drunk after a bad date.

[Swiss Servator, Winter...jetzt]

I larfed...a lot.

[Warty]

Oh yes, how could I forget this.

[John]

Speaking of bagel breakfasts, I have come up with a theory why everyone in this country is so fat and people in Europe largely are not. It is not because they exercise more, exercise while good doesn't make you thin if you over eat, or that they are more disciplined than us, people are people. I think it is that the food in America sucks so bad compared to there.

In the US you get this shit food that never satisfies you, so you eat more. In Europe the food is better so a smaller amount satisfies you and you eat less. I think this has become especially true in the last 40 years when the government and doctors and everyone else is pushing low carb or low fat diets. For all of the shit low fat diets get, low carb ones are in many ways just as bad. Go on a low carb diet for more than a day and you go nuts. Nothing satisfies you anymore.

All of our food is fucked up in some way to either cut out the carbs or cut out the fat. And as a result none of it is satisfying. So we just eat more and more of it trying to get satisfied. If we had better food and didn't worry about eliminating carbs or fat, we would be more satisfied and eat less and be thinner.

[Scruffy Nerfherder]

Carbs are addictive. Try taking them away from kids who are used to them. It's a guaranteed battle complete with meltdowns and threats.

[Warty]

I've argued that the main reason our food is terrible is that we're afraid of fat. Fat is flavor. And if you're eating more fat, you're automatically eating less carbs unless you're purposefully stuffing yourself. Fats are more satiating, they have more benign hormonal effects, blah blah blah.

But I agree, for most people low-carb dieting is impossible because it's impossible to consciously not do something for a long period of time.

[John]

My wife and I smuggled back this incredible Italian ham from Europe. I have been eating it on my sandwhiches for lunch. This stuff is fantastic. But it is so good and so rich that you need to slice it with a mandolin because incredibly thin slices are all you need. I did the calculation and I am getting like 200 fewer calories from sandwiches made with that ham than I do from sandwiches made from ordinary American lunch meat. The reason is that you have to use so much less of that stuff to make the sandwich satisfying than you do the meat you get here. I is by the serving much more caloric than your typical low fat American lunch meat. But since it is so much better, you eat less of it to be satisfied and ingest fewer calories.

[Warty]

Ham here is mostly horrible 99% fat free stuff. You have to fry it with bacon to make it edible.

[Scruffy Nerfherder]

99% fat free stuff

Ugh. What's the point?

[Zeb]

A fine cured ham (Spanish ones are the best) is the greatest single food item in the world.

[Old Man With Candy]

White truffles beg to disagree.

[Citizen Nothing]

you need to slice it with a mandolin

My god, man! Not even Bill Monroe could do that!

[Juice]

American pigs are crap, bred to be very lean.

[Redmanfms]

American pigs are crap, bred to be very lean.

Jesus titty-fucking Christ, stop buying fucking meat at the God-damned supermarket you boob. Chicken is about the only meat that doesn't suffer quality-wise with mass production.

You can get great pork and beef at a farmer's market. While the prices are significantly higher than supermarket packaged, they are still lower than you can buy meat anywhere in Europe.

Also, much of the beef in Europe came from the US (at least from what I've seen).

[The Laconic]

Go on a low carb diet for more than a day and you go nuts. Nothing satisfies you anymore.

I suspect that you're doing it wrong. When people go on low-carb diets, they often make the mistake of not eating more fats, perhaps because they still buy into the lie that fats are bad. And it's the fats that satisfy your appetite.

[John]

No. I am not doing it wrong. It sucks. Fats are nice and all but they are not a substitute for carbs. After a day or two even the fats don't taste good anymore because your body is craving carbs.

The problem is that your body needs and craves both carbs and fats. Any diet that is out of balance such that it deprives you of one or the other is never going to be satisfying or sustainable. I can suck it up and do low carb for a while and lose a lot of weight quickly. But I cannot do it as a lifestyle, I don't care how much fat I eat. Fat gets old just like anything else.

[The Laconic]

Fair enough. But I do think you have to do it for longer.

[John]

"Low" is a relative term and doesn't mean the same thing as "no". I agree with you that you are better off eating fewer carbs as a rule. It is just that you have to find a level that your body can tolerate in order to sustain anything.

[Warty]

What you're talking about is the process of fat adaptation. It takes about two weeks.

The body will preferentially use carbs, but it most emphatically does not need them.

[John]

Warty,

Will you starve to death without carbs? No. So yeah, you do not need them. But it still sucks to go completely without them. My energy level drops like a rock and I feel like shit without them. I equally feel like shit when I have too many of them. But I need some of them.

[Warty]

Your energy drops and you feel like shit for a week or two. It comes back after a week or two. It's probably not worth going through the process, but the process exists.

[Bobarian (Mr. Xtreme)]

Ketosis, right?

[Juice]

You don't need to do Atkins Induction. Actually, you shouldn't. Just eat fewer carbs. You don't need to almost completely eliminate them. And just avoid certain types of carbs (sugar, bread, pasta, cereal). Whole grains are ok (not "whole wheat" bread/pasta items). I've found that tortillas are ok if you limit them to under 200 calories per day. Eat a 600 cal breakfast of eggs and/or bacon, but also some kind of good carb (under 200 cal) and you can probably skip lunch or eat a very small one. I suggest a salad with cheese and meat for lunch. Or a wrap of some sort. Maybe 300-400 cal. Then eat a small dinner of meat and veggies, 500 cal or so. This schedule will make you lose weight and not feel hungry. If you get a small hunger pang during the day eat a teaspoon of PB or a protein bar. At night before bed, drink a casein shake to prevent muscle loss. This is what I did to lose 50 pounds and keep it off.

[Zeb]

Food does seem to be a lot better in Europe. But I wonder if poorer people there really have significantly better diets. Probably in some ways. People do eat a lot of pure garbage in the US. But they are hardly averse to sweets and bread in Euro land.

I'm sure food plays a big part, but I still think that most of it is down to less active lifestyles.

I have a rather different problem from most people. I need all the calories I can get. Losing weight is a worry for me. I'd love to gain 15-20 lbs. But that doesn't mean that sugar and starch are good for me.

[Juice]

people in Europe largely are not

It depends on the country. Most people over the age of 45 in the UK, Germany, Italy are quite overweight.

[Redmanfms]

Dude, I've lived in Europe, the food isn't any better. Italian, French, and British cuisine is almost entirely carbs.

Food is vastly more expensive, which will definitely make you eat less.

Also, several European nations (most notably Britain and Germany) have higher obesity rates. Obesity presents differently too. Usually it is older people who are fat in Europe, whereas here obesity is a strong socio-economic indicator. Middle class and up people here don't get fat even in old age.

[Rufus J. Firefly]

Yeah right, Suh.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/playoff.....-numb-cold

[Swiss Servator, Winter...jetzt]

That is a new (and lame) one...

[mariajcalhoun]

my best friend's step-sister makes $76 hourly on the internet . She has been fired from work for five months but last month her check was $15869 just working on the internet for a few hours. have a peek at this web-site..........
????? http://www.netjob70.com

[Warty]

Do you know what I love doing? Curls. IN THE POWER RACK.

[Auric Demonocles]

Mine is a work gym, so no need to worry about an influx of college kids. I guess we kind of get that over the summer when the interns start, but they mostly just play volleyball instead (which, to be fair, is fun to join them with on an off day).

[Scruffy Nerfherder]

It's easy for adults that can rationalize it. Kids just know you're taking their favorite things away that give them that blood sugar rush they so desperately want.

[John]

Fewer carbs, but some carbs and the right kinds of carbs. The processed carbs are basically baby food. They are so easy to digest and give so many calories per ounce that they just kill you.

[The Laconic]

I think the hard part is just that it's inconvenient. You have to change your whole set of recipes, and find new restaurants to eat at (or be a bit creative at the same restaurants).

I find that it doesn't require much willpower at all. I don't crave almond croissants if I'm not hungry in the first place.

[Warty]

This is basically it. Sugar and white bread were tremendous luxuries 200 years ago or so. Now we all stuff ourselves like French aristocrats.

[Warty]

Genetics are annoying. Every now and then I'll see toothless bums who are huge and shredded. The McDonald's, Pepsi, and crack diet works for some people.

[Warty]

When I'm good, which I'm not right now, I eat very few of them during the week and a lot more on the weekend. When I get too fat I just cut 500 daily calories until my body dysmorphia is mollified.