Torture Report Even Nastier Than Expected, Gruber Apologizes For Insulting Everybody, Public Favors Charges for Eric Garner's Killer: P.M. Links


  • Torture
    Marathon Man

    That torture report that finally got released today… It's even more appetite-suppressing than anticipated. It details illegally held detainees and widespread mistreatment.

  • The Obama administration, which dragged out raising the curtain on torture for six years, isn't getting much mileage out of patting itself on the back for the Senate Intelligence Committee's release of the report.
  • Polling finds that most Americans think the cop who killed Eric Garner should face charges.
  • Obamacare architect consultant jackass Jonathan Gruber is very, very sorry for insulting the entire U.S. population. Well, a little. But he still insists that his pet policy is just awesome.
  • A few misfired raids won't deter the U.S. government from attempting to rescue kidnapped Americans from the various lowlifes snatching and murdering people around the globe, say officials. So maybe we do get something for our money.
  • Robert Wayne Holsey is slated to be executed today, after being represented by a vodka-guzzling defense attorney who has since been disbarred and imprisoned.

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    1. I was going to try, but I knew there was no hope.

      Now I feel hopelessness because of Fist of Etiquette.

      THANKS H&R!

        1. No fist…only you are trying…

          1. There is no try. Fist does, you do not. That is why you fail.

            There is another.

            1. BUT DON’T KISS HER YOU PERV.

              1. everyone missed my clever use of “trying”

                sad face

        2. Wher- where am I? My head is killing me.

        3. Was I not clear? I thought about trying, but did not actually try because you use black magic to win every time.

          1. I understood you just fine, Jesse. It’s Fisty who couldn’t be bothered to understand.

          2. Thinking about trying is trying. Also, trying has multiple meanings.

            1. I find this whole conversation trying.

        4. Shouldn’t you be preparing for your UN speech?

      1. Don’t bother Jesse. It’s an inside job.

        /FoE truther

    2. Hello.

      How do we know the orange is telling the truth?

      1. Yeah, I emptied my pockets and it jumped a quarter of the way up!
        Lint and spare change ain’t gonna do that.

  1. That torture report that finally got released today…

    Gruber testifying the same day as the report comes out? Whose idea was that?

    1. total coincidence. Didn’t tony already tell us that?

    2. I’m surprised this did not happen on a Friday afternoon.

      1. Obo couldn’t get congress to resched Gruber.

  2. But he still insists that his pet policy is just awesome.

    So awesome it was best hidden as much as possible.

    1. To give him credit, predatory scumbags must camouflage themselves to prey on their taxpaying victims.

    2. Interesting how so many leftist policies and laws require such huge amounts of deception and misdirection. I wonder why that is?

  3. Polling finds that most Americans think the cop who killed Eric Garner should face charges.

    All that effort just to have a prosecutor overcharge, half-ass it and a jury fail to convict?

    1. I’ll show you some tasteful half-ass.

      1. Is that like side-boob?

        1. Sure, but with moar hair.

          1. And pimples?

      2. Kids today with their sagger pants and penny boards and sugared cereals.

  4. Democrat tears into Gruber … because he is embarrassed he was fooled.

    “I was in Congress when this law was debated, and Dr. Gruber does not speak for me, or the chairman of the other committees who worked tirelessly on this bill,” he said. “We debated this legislation for nearly a year before it was finally passed and signed by the president! Never once did I believe or did anyone suggest that we were somehow hiding our goals from the American people.”

    1. Well, you should have found out what was in it BEFORE you passed it, jacka$$.

      1. ^This. Thanks, Injun.

    2. Nice choice of words from another professional liar. Never once. Definitely hundreds.

    3. Cummings wanted to be fooled.

      1. Fool me once, shame on you.

        Fool me twice, and we’ll call it Obamacare!

    4. Debated for a year?

      Bullshit. You have to publish the contents before the debate can start.

      1. He repeated the talking points for a year. He thinks that’s debate.

    5. Are we gonna hear about how every Congressmen warned Americans against Obamacare? Sorta like how everyone fought for la resistance in France.

      Also, the You Lie guy from SC. Was he upset about Obamacare? I need a refresher.

      1. MAN.

      2. Yeah, but specifically about illegal immigrants being covered:

        1. So.

          He was…


          1. Specifically I’m not sure because I don’t recall the definitive answer on whether illegal immigrants are covered or not.

            Generically he’s obviously correct b/c Obama lies all the time.

            I see Juve got the point they needed.

            1. Yup. They proved my point. 72% ball possession (a somewhat over blown stat) but couldn’t clinch. But the job got done. Unlike Liverpool. I think Man City took a major blow losing Arguero but all they need is a 1-1 draw or better. Roma’s defense sucks.

    6. BigT|12.9.14 @ 4:32PM|#
      ‘A MARK tears into Gruber … because he is embarrassed he was fooled’

      Just a bit more honest.

  5. TortureMarathon ManThat torture report that finally got released today… It’s even more appetite-suppressing than anticipated. It details illegally held detainees and widespread mistreatment.

    What difference, at this point, does it make?



  6. Canada-U.S. price gap complaints could soon trigger investigations

    Canadian consumers have long complained that they pay higher prices than Americans on a wide range of items, including toys, books, electronics and cars. The Conservatives responded in the February budget, vowing to narrow the so-called price gap between the two countries as part of their consumer-first agenda.

    “It’s called geographic price discrimination. A more blunt way of putting it is to call it … price gouging of Canadian consumers because of where Canadians live,” [Industry Minister] Moore said.

    So much stupid.

    1. It’s where they live, they live in a high tax nation.

    2. Shorter Moore: “What’s a tariff?”

    3. It’s always businesses’ fault.

    4. But ultimately you have to explain why one worthless dollar is worth more than another worthless dollar.

      1. Subway tokens are expensive to mint?

    5. Price discrimination is perfectly valid. It’s called fucking market value.

    6. In the comments:

      “n this one case, I am happy to pay more.

      That’s because most of this so-called gouging is for things that are already too cheap in the U.S.

      Watch. The Cons will set up their little “price police” force… and then turn around and use that as an excuse why we just can’t act on climate change… because rampant pollution is the only way those poor, poor companies can make a profit.

      Bring on high prices. As long as the quality is there and the companies making them are held accountable for the FULL COST of their products.

      More backward thinking from the party whose entire philosophy is antithetic to health, well-being and prosperity.”

      Because fuck the poor is apparently the policy platform of the people dedicated to ‘health, well-being and prosperity’. I hate my countrymen sometimes.

      1. John, I’m asking this in the most sincere and nice way I can given the limitations of tone in comments. Please use HTML Tags to italicize or block quote long quotations like the one above as it makes it much easier to read.

        1. Dammit, it would’ve been hilarious if you had SF’ed that link.

        2. I know how to use HTML tags, I’m a just a rebel. Also lazy.

          1. At least you used quotes.

          2. That’s even worse than Bo refusing to learn HTML because it’s a waste of his time to format text in a gracious way.

            Don’t be worse than Bo, John!

            1. What are you gonna do about it? Non-aggress towards me? I thought libertarians welcomed non-traditional lifestyle choices.

              And seriously, Bo’s too lazy to learn HTML tags? My computer illiterate mother can use HTML.

              1. Bo is just a cunt.

              2. Just italics is enough really. Who has time to type “blockquote”?

              3. It’s been a while. When he was a new commenter he’d post large blocks of text, some of it his, some of it quotes and use a single mark like a dash or something to indicate the start of quoted text and nothing to denote a closed quote. Tonio and I both pushed for HTML tags for clarity sake and he indicated that he was too busy or important to learn them.

                1. remember when MNG made fun of TRAKTOR PULLZ!!! Ahh, bask in the glow of PHD awesomeness.

          3. I know how to use HTML tags, I’m a just a rebel.

            You are a terrible, horrible, very bad, noogoodnik. Worse than Nikki.

            Also lazy.

            Yeah, it’s a bitch, but it proves one cares enough. I bet the kids have come up with a plugin or addon that does that for you.

      2. Now there’s one moronic individual.

        Anyone who says ‘I am happy to pay more’ can’t be taken to be a rational being.

        1. I think the top moron comment on that article goes to the person suggesting Elizabeth May as Prime Minister.

          1. There. You. Go.

    7. Should I be angry that the gas station closest to my home sells gas at a higher price than the one further down the street?

      1. apparently not just angry, but demanding inquiry from the highest levels of govt. Because fairness!111! Or gouging!1!1 Or maybe fair gouging.

  7. *Torturing Dustman Hoffman* Great, way to get me to sympathize with torturers…AND Nazis.

  8. A few misfired raids…

    You know who else came off looking like a limp dick during rescue ops?

    1. Ernest Borgnine in Airwolf?

      1. You son of a bitch you take that back.

        1. I’m with fist on this…BEST SHOW OF THE 80s!

          1. Airwolf was awesome…when I was in Third Grade.

          2. Airwolf was for suckers. Manimal was the shit.

          3. Jayce and the Wheeled Warriors, muthafuckah.

    2. The medic who got himself shot to pieces in “Saving Private Ryan?”

    3. The NOLA police?

    4. Jimmy Carter?

    5. Jimmy Carter?

      1. Jimmy Carter?

    6. Bo Gritz?

    7. Jimmy Carter during the rabbit attack?

      1. Jimmy Carter during the rabbit attack?

        The main reason he was a bad president is that he never learned that
        Trix are for kids.

  9. …after being represented by a vodka-guzzling defense attorney who has since been disbarred and imprisoned.

    He should have been sharing that vodka with the judge, I guess.

  10. Public Favors Charges For Eric Garner’s Killer

    Did they indicate a preference for the voltage of the charges?

    1. +4,000

    2. 50 on the Machine.

    3. We should ask John Yoo what the US Constitution Geneva Accords he considers the cruel and unusual voltage level.

  11. A terrible evil is rising out of Argentina

    Argentinian filmmakers Gonzalo Moiguer and Rodrigo Melendez have set about making a movie shot entirely in vertical orientation.

    “It’s a way to go against people saying it’s wrong, that there should be only one way to make films. If we don’t question the way we produce, then the art form is dead.”

    Worse. Than. Hitler.

    The trailer for those who can stomach two minutes of this reprehensible filth.

    1. I presume by “vertical” they mean portrait orientation as opposed to landscape?

      Because if they mean having the camera point either up or down, that would seem horribly vertigo-inducins.

      1. I’ve been posting vertical video trigger warnings for months and NOW you’re going to question my terminology?

        1. I have Flash video set not to load until I click on it. Normally I only need to see the title of a Youtube video for the point to be made. 🙂

    2. I stopped at the guy humping the pole.

    3. I was expecting the camera operator to be lying on his back.

      1. I’ve seen those. They usually feature a head bobbing up and down in the foreground.

    4. Vertical video is so dumb it makes you talk in gibberish.

    5. If your idea of revolutionary creativity is turning the camera on its side, the art form is already dead.

    6. I think I am OK with this. It’s an intentional artistic choice, and not just an ignorant error. It does look like they are using a widescreen aspect ratio, though. I probably would have compromised and done it 3:4, enough to make the point but a little friendlier.

    7. That is ridiculous. It’s not like the wide format is particularly suited to the physiological makeup of, like, 100% of the potential audience, or anything.

      1. Yarr, it fits me just fine, matey.

  12. Meanwhile, closer to home an FSU professor implodes on FB.

    “Take your Northern (gay slur) elitism and shove it up your (expletive),” O’Connor wrote on Lively’s Facebook post (they are not Facebook friends, but have one mutual friend on the social media site).
    “I teach at a University, you (expletive). What do you do?” she added. “You are an intellectual fraud, just like your Messiah. Obama has single-handedly turned our once great society into a Ghetto Culture, rivaling that of Europe.”

    Its really too bad, too. The rant is mostly correct. Although, I’m sure many will think she meant Ghetto Culture as a racist slur.

    1. of all the things that have happened at FSU the past year or so, THIS is the one that results in something actionable. Makes me so proud of that Master’s I got there.

      1. My University of Concordia allows derelict and violent student bodies to roam the campus.

        1. Especially if Benny Netanyahu’s in town.

          1. Jews are constantly intimidated in that piece of shit place. It was bad when I was there and I hear it’s worse now.

    2. I usually give people a pass, but once I saw that she had a position of responsibility teaching our children, that’s what put me over the edge,

      College students?children

      1. Never mind all the nasty shit coming from other college professors whose views people like this like.

        1. Where’s the complaints over that professor who actually assaulted an anti-abortion protester? Apparently mean words are worse than actual violence.

          1. maybe, but that professor was assaulting an anti-abortion protestor. On the victimhood scale, that is acceptable. The FSU prof called someone a fag or something similar and in this PC climate, that is a capital crime.

            What is it another poster said about principles vs principals?

        2. Was gonna write the same thing. The left spews all kinds of junk and bunk all the time on campuses and FB.

      2. Have you seen my sippy cup?

      3. Yeah. There aren’t any good guys in this fight.

      4. College students?children

        Children <= Age 25

        according to Obamacare, anyway.

        1. This exactly. Over 14 you are no longer a child. You may not be an adult yet but you’re on the road to being responsible for your actions. The paradigm shift that 20-somethings are still “children” is bullshit.

          1. I think children are on the road to being responsible for their actions. Although society seems to have forgotten that the point of childhood is to prepare for adulthood.

          2. It is worth pointing out that to say “my 25 year old child” does not necessarily imply that you still think of them as children, only that the speaker is their parent.

            I agree it is stupid to think of teenagers as children. And extra stupid to think of 20-somethings that way.

            1. Your parents do still think of you as a child. I have been living independently for 15 years now. Own a home, have a job, my own car, etc…

              My parents still frequently talk to me like they think I’m a retarded five year old.

              1. Speak for yourself. My parents never treated me like an idiot child.

        2. Whoa, you used a left angle bracket and it didn’t get stripped as an unclosed html tag? Whoa…

          1. Use the ampersand symbol with LT;

  13. If SpaceX gives Obama a ride, I will send Elon Musk a check for $5.

    Obama to federal workers: After presidency, I might ‘hitch a ride’ to Mars

    1. I just read an article somewhere that claims Elon Musk credits the Foundation series for his interest in getting people off of Earth permanently. Which, is, I guess the only redeeming quality of that steaming pile of Top Man, statist propaganda.

      1. I loved reading those books when I was in high school.

      2. See, I always thought it was about how top men shit was always bound to fail.

    2. If I ran an interplanetary shuttle operation, you can bet there would be a list of people who don’t get to escape their own Earthly fuckups and pollute the Final Frontier on my account.

      1. Sending a shuttle to the Sun is cheaper than sending it to Mars, if you don’t care about surviving the landing.

        “Oh, yeah. We’ve got a special VIP launch for you guys.”

        1. +1 minor malfunction.

        2. Couldn’t you just have it end up in a solar orbit and have them all die in the cold, blackness of space, slowly struggling for oxygen?

          Just sayin’.

        3. Simpsons did it.

        4. Along with the telephone sanitizers, hairdressers, and advertising account executives

          1. You say that now but wait until you die from a disease on a dirty telephone.

    3. There will continue to be ideological battles for those who think the market is king and there’s no room for any kind of regulatory efforts

      The market is king, you dolt – it’s how you got elected. Everybody is free to try to sell their wares in the political market just the same as in the retail market, or the philosophical, the scientific, or any other market. You might notice that we don’t have no kind of regulatory effort (nor a fraction of what I suspect you would like to see), that’s how the market works.

    4. I guess that means I have to find a way to live on Venus (or in its atmosphere like Lando MuthaFuckin’ Calrissian). I don’t want to share a planet with assholes like him.

  14. By 57%-22%, those surveyed say the grand jury made the wrong decision in not bringing charges against New York City police officer Daniel Pantaleo.

    Color me… genuinely surprised, and mildly pleased but still cynical.

  15. A Mysterious Sound Is Driving People Insane ? And Nobody Knows What’s Causing It

    Exasperated, MacPherson turned his focus to scientific literature and pored over reports of the mysterious noise before coming across an article by University of Oklahoma geophysicist David Deming in the Journal of Scientific Exploration, a peer-reviewed academic journal devoted to exploring topics outside of mainstream science. “I almost dropped my laptop,” says MacPherson. “I was sure that I was hearing the Hum.”

    “The Hum” refers to a mysterious sound heard in places around the world by a small fraction of a local population. It’s characterized by a persistent and invasive low-frequency rumbling or droning noise often accompanied by vibrations. While reports of “unidentified humming sounds” pop up in scientific literature dating back to the 1830s, modern manifestations of the contemporary hum have been widely reported by national media in the United Kingdom, the United States and Australia since the early 1970s.

    1. Are these the freaks moving to West Virginia to get away from certain frequencies of EM radiation?

      (Yeah, I’m probably phrasing that question incorrectly, since visible light is EM radiation.)

      1. Naw. It seems to be a sensitivity to VLF.

        1. So what’s behind the Hum? After nearly four decades, Hum investigators may finally have some idea. The general consensus among sufferers is that the Hum is comprised of very low frequency (or ‘VLF’, in the range of 3 kHz to 30 kHz and wavelengths from 10 to 100 kilometers) or extremely low frequency (or ‘ELF’, in the range of 3 to 30 Hz, and corresponding wavelengths from 100,000 to 10,000 kilometers) radio waves, which can penetrate buildings and travel over tremendous distances.

          Both ELF and VLF waves have been shown to have potentially adverse affects on the human body. While the common refrain about ELF radiation in popular culture normally involves your cell phone giving you cancer, research by the World Health Organization and the Institute for Electrical and Electronics Engineers has shown that external ELF magnetic fields can induce currents in the body which, at very high field strengths, cause nerve and muscle stimulation and changes in nerve cell excitability in the central nervous system. And VLF waves, like other low-frequency electromagnetic radiation, have also been shown to have a direct impact on biological functions

          1. Finally, there’s a body of empirical evidence that makes this theory more appealing. A study funded by the Canadian government and led by University of Windsor mechanical engineering professor Dr. Colin Novak spent the last year listening to the “Windsor Hum” that’s been torturing residents in the Windsor area of Ontario since 2011. A previous study had confirmed the existence of the low frequency noise in the vicinity of Zug Island, a highly industrialized island located on Michigan side of the Detroit River. The researchers used specialized equipment to capture and develop a sonic “fingerprint” of the mysterious sound. The study concluded that not only does the Windsor Hum actually exist, but its likely source was a blast furnace at the U.S. Steel plant on Zug Island, which reportedly generates a high volume of VLF waves during its hours of operation. “It sounds like a large truck or a train locomotive is parked outside your house, buzzing away, causing the windows to shake,” Novak, himself a Hum sufferer, told Canada’s CTV News. “It can be quite uncomfortable at times.”

      2. No, you’re not. I’ve met people there who claim to be affected by incandescent light bulbs, as well as radio signals.

        1. When I first wrote the question, I hadn’t included “certain frequencies of”.

    2. Can it be recorded? If not, I don’t believe it.

      1. It seems more likely that a small population have some internal perception of a noise.

        1. It’s called “purring,” and now we have evidence that a small fraction of humans are actually the product of strange alien genetic crossbreeding experiments.

      1. I thought that was going to be a link to hypnotoad

    3. They’re cylons. I saw that episode.

      1. “It’s in the fraking ship!”

  16. Maybe I’m heartless, but I don’t care about the IQ of a murderer. (I also think the “If you score too low on this test we won’t execute you” principle is just asking for abuse.) I think I’m with Thomas Szasz about not wanting to consider their sanity, either. There seems to be no doubt that Holsey committed that murder, so I am fine with executing him, regardless of the fact that his attorney was a drunk.

      1. The notorious Arthur Jensen, eh? I’m not sure what to make of this paper though, other than to be astonished that an IQ of 50 can be considered “mild retardation.”

    1. I have a problem with the state executing people regardless of their I.Q.

      1. ^ + one life sentence

      2. ^This. No sympathy for murderers, but not trusting the state with that, no how, no way.

        1. To me, saying “I don’t trust the state to execute people” means “I don’t trust juries to determine guilt or innocence in murder cases.”

          1. To me, saying “I don’t trust the state to execute people” means “I don’t trust juries to determine guilt or innocence in murder cases.”

            And you do? Juries are morons. Trial-by-jury is the worst system we have, except for all the others that have been tried. What the death penalty eliminates is any chance of ever rectifying the sytem’s mistakes.

            1. OK, except that if someone is sent to prison for X years, they can never really get those years back, either.

              I have a problem with the general formulation of “Nobody should ever do this because a mistake might be made.” Well, mistakes are always a possibility, with anything. It’s like the “precautionary principle”: if universally applied, nobody could ever do anything.

              1. They can, of course, still enjoy the rest of their life, which is the point. Don’t be dishonest.

          2. I don’t trust prosecutors. And with seemingly good reason.

            1. I am in favor of strong penalties for prosectors who withhold evidence or simply frame someone.

              1. Good luck with that. I’m in favor of a different supermodel fucking me every night. I think I’m more likely to get my wish than you yours.

      3. I realize that many people do. My view is that some people need killing, and since government is force and exists to protect society, it’s legitimate for them to execute some people. Even life in prison does not fully protect society, because imprisoned killers can (and do) kill other prisoners and guards.

    2. Just to clarify, you do care about the caste or occupation of a murderer though.

      1. I think that is relevant, for cases outside of first degree murder. If someone plots to murder someone, true, it doesn’t matter who they are. A homeless person, a cop, a doctor, whoever. But for accidental killings like Eric Gardner, yes, I am more inclined towards some mercy for someone who accidentally killed someone while in the course of their professional duties (arresting someone, performing a surgery, etc.), rather than someone who accidentally killed someone while committing a crime (robbing a store, driving drunk, etc.) So in that sense, occupation does matter.

    3. You’re heartless for a whole bunch of reasons, Papaya.

      What libertarian isn’t somewhat heartless? 😉

      1. *Ahem* Our pretentious friends at Bleeding Heart Libertarians would like a word…

    4. There are IQ’s low enough that the accused could not reasonably assist their counsel in their own defense.

  17. Not that you’re using him on your fantasy team,but Cam Newton broke his back in a car crash.

  18. Congratulations to our Swiss poster.

    Go Roma.

    1. Not gonna happen.

    2. Is this re: Liverpool? Hell, a team of blind grandmothers could have beaten them.

  19. I finally got around to reading Emily Yoffe’s Slate article on campus rape.. It’s long but damn is it worth the time for anyone who hasn’t read it yet.

  20. Where’s Heroic Mulatto. I need to know what the feminine form of “Noc su kow” is.

    Radar Films on Monday announced that Carano was the latest actor to join the cast of the company’s “Kickboxer” remake that also includes action star Jean-Claude Van Damme, WWE Superstar Dave Bautista, and former UFC welterweight kingpin Georges St-Pierre.

  21. My new second-favorite Wikipedia article, after the list of lists of lists: list of animals with fraudulent diplomas (…but what about animals with legitimate diplomas???).

  22. A rather sordid and wretched creature this Gruber feller.

    1. +a stack of bearer bonds

  23. Libertarian Police Department

    I was shooting heroin and reading “The Fountainhead” in the front seat of my privately owned police cruiser when a call came in. I put a quarter in the radio to activate it. It was the chief.

    “Bad news, detective. We got a situation.”

    “What? Is the mayor trying to ban trans fats again?”

    “Worse. Somebody just stole four hundred and forty-seven million dollars’ worth of bitcoins.”

    The heroin needle practically fell out of my arm. “What kind of monster would do something like that? Bitcoins are the ultimate currency: virtual, anonymous, stateless. They represent true economic freedom, not subject to arbitrary manipulation by any government. Do we have any leads?”

    “Not yet. But mark my words: we’re going to figure out who did this and we’re going to take them down ? provided someone pays us a fair market rate to do so.”

    1. I hadn’t thought about that idiocy in months. I swear. There’s been a conspiracy of late to bring up old stories that raise my blood pressure.

    2. Well, the cop in that story doesn’t shoot any dogs or choke out any cigarette salesmen, so so far I’m seeing this Libertarian PD as much preferable to the status quo, though the author doesn’t seem to feel that way.

    3. Admittedly, for libertarian mockery propaganda, it’s actually kind of funny.

      “I was losing him. “Listen, I’ll pay you to stop!” I yelled. “What would you consider an appropriate price point for stopping? I’ll offer you a thirteenth of an ounce of gold and a gently worn ‘Bob Barr ’08’ extra-large long-sleeved men’s T-shirt!”

      Also, note that Libertarian Cop waited until he was shot at before he pulled out his own gun. It’s almost like that would be an improvement over current police methods or something.

  24. I learned two things last night and one today:

    1) The LA group of H&R posters (and one Reason staffer!) are awesome people and a great time.

    2) I really shouldn’t go to two different business cocktail parties first, and then join up with LA HnR crowd in a tiki bar, all on an empty stomach.

    3) My head hurts.

    1. There were rum-based volcano bowl drinks!

      1. I’m still sad I missed the small get together in NY a few months back. Though it sounds like no one does it as well as the LA folks.

        1. The LA setup makes things pretty easy. Someone sends me an email saying they want a meetup, I let everyone in my ReasonLA contact list know when and collect availability data and then we go. Apparently my face pic Gravatar is helpful.

      2. Couldn’t even taste the booze!

        1. The rohypnol numbed your tongue.

    2. Sounds like fun.

      1. It does! It might even be worth visiting LA for. 😛

        1. We had a good meet up in SF some months ago when Nick was in town. Everybody wants to do another, but nobody has gotten it together to arrange one. I wonder if the Sunday in between Christmas and New Year would be a good time or a bad time.

          1. I’m obliged to attend family events, but it might work well for others.

              1. xD

                Tell you what, fly out to Montana, and I’ll take you out to see the blue ribbon cabbages.

                Also, I’ll get you drunk at one of our many fine drinking establishments. You’re in luck if you like beer; I can think of about six microbreweries in this town off the top of my head.

                1. Also, I’ll get you drunk at one of our many fine drinking establishments.

                  So now I have at least three people trying to get rapey with me.

                  /lights Nikki distress signal

                  1. Well, look at the way you’re dressed. What did you expect?

                    1. He is, in fact, asking for it.

                    2. It is definitely not tasteful half-ass.

  25. Steve Forbes does not like the Senate CIA torture report. I don’t necessarily endorse his view, just sharing.

    THE MOST SHOCKING THING about the Senate Intelligence Committee report just released wasn’t the false allegations it made about the effectiveness of the CIA’s post-9/11 interrogation techniques used to thwart terrorist attacks against the U.S. and Americans and take successful countermeasures against al Qaeda, including the capture of key operatives. The measures the CIA and others took against terrorists were crucial in preventing another 9/11, as documented by a thorough and convincing piece that former CIA officials have posted on the Wall Street Journal’s website:…..418142644. Moreover and contrary to lurid headlines, the CIA didn’t operate in a rogue manner. The President, the Attorney General, the Justice Department, congressional leaders and, eventually, appropriate staff members were informed of what was going on.…..obscenity/

    1. You left out the key bit:

      No, the real stunner here is that the staff of the Senate Intelligence Committee never interviewed any of the key officials involved in creating and managing the program.

      1. Yeah, I don’t get that assertion either, I think they don’t realize that they’re saying the “prosecution” didn’t interview the “criminals” involved, as though thy’d just own up and go to jail if they were breaking the law.

    2. that former CIA officials

      I often wonder why the possibility that the officials quoted in situations like this are trying to save themselves from a jail sentence or disgrace is never discussed by people like Forbes.

  26. Why does the torture report limit itself to the Bush administration? Because we all know that Obama would never allow torture? Or because Obama’s torture techniques are all State Secrets?

    1. Classified until after 2016. Duh.

    2. And note that rendition started in the Clinton administration.

  27. “Herr Doktor Gruber” sounds like the name of a Nazi bureaucrat.

    “Ze people are shtupid. Ve must *guide* them into vat zeir interests require.”

    All he needs is a monocle.

    1. Well, a riding crop wouldn’t hurt.

  28. That Gruber expressed sorrow (likely for being found out) is not relevant to the discussion.

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