A.M. Links: U.S. to Review How It Negotiates With Terrorists, Net Neutrality Could Be Back Door for Internet Tax, Charles Manson Getting Married

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  CBP

  The FBI is warning that the grand jury decision in Ferguson over whether to indict Officer Darren Wilson for the killing of Michael Brown will likely lead to violence.

• Three Americans were among four worshippers killed in an an attack on a Jerusalem synagogue.
• President Obama ordered a review of how the United States negotiates with terrorists.
• A member of the Federal Communications Commission warned net neutrality would be a back door for an Internet tax.
• Republican campaigns and outside groups may have used Twitter to communicate polling data without running afoul of laws prohibiting campaign coordination.  
• The latest potential candidate for president in 2016 is Gov. Jerry Brown (D-Ca.), who tried to run for president in the 1970s, 1980s, and 1990s.
• Charles Manson and his 26-year-old fiancée Afton Burton received a marriage license.

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Comments

[Fist of Etiquette]

Charles Manson and his 26-year-old fianc?e Afton Burton received a marriage license.

Altar Skaltar.

[Bee Tagger]

Happiness is a warm pun, so thank you.

[Swiss Servator, spare a franc?]

*narrows gaze*

[Almanian!]

I remember when the Ruttles released "Altar Skaltar"...awesome tune.

[AlmightyJB]

"Who goes by the name of Star"

Of course she does

[Citizen Nothing]

Now that's a traditional marriage!

[Mike Laursen]

The best part of the deal for Manson is that he's locked up where he's safe from someone crazy enough to marry him.

[Zeb]

Whenever I think of Charlie Manson, I immediately recall some interview I saw with him by Barbara Walters. I can't remember what her question was, but his reply was "I'm a gangster, woman, I take money".

[Fist of Etiquette]

The FBI is warning that the grand jury decision in Ferguson over whether to indict Officer Darren Wilson for the killing of Michael Brown will likely lead to violence.

Bet Tricky Jay wishes his state of emergency was for a blizzard right about now. Or ninjas.

[Swiss Servator, spare a franc?]

SNOW NINJAS!!!!!

[Palin's Buttplug]

Race baiter Neal Boortz is on redneck radio stirring the pot right now.

[WTF]

I bet you're the kind of guy who would fuck a person in the ass and not even have the goddamn common courtesy to give him a reach-around. I'll be watching you.

[Contrarian P]

Stirring what pot? How many of the potential protesters in Ferguson listen to "redneck radio", whatever that is, let alone know who Neil Boortz is, let alone care about what he has to say?

Seriously, what does that have to do with anything?

[goneGalt]

Speaking of race, did you ever find out "Where de white wommens is?"

[Rich]

President Obama ordered a review of how the United States negotiates with terrorists.

Should be a short review, since "we don't".

[UnCivilServant]

That's clearly not true given the record.

[Rich]

It depends on what the meaning of "negotiates" is.

[UnCivilServant]

Or more pertinently, the meaning of "with".

[R C Dean (fka Clown Hunter)]

Don't forget "terrorist."

I mean, every time somebody gets jacked up on a "domestic terrorism" charge, they start negotiating a plea deal, so there's that.

[C. Anacreon]

Hey Uncivil Servant, I bought Shadowboy for my 12-year-old son last night. I'll let you know how he likes it. If he does, we'll get Shadowdemon too.

c dot anacreon at gmail dot com

[gaijin]

All negotiations will henceforth be conducted via diplomatic YouTube video and hashtag

[Bobarian (Mr. Xtreme)]

#SendKerry

[gaijin]

^excellent!

[Injun, as in from India]

Was the Bergdahl release the first time the US negotiated and caved in, or are you guys aware of any instances in the past?

[Swiss Servator, spare a franc?]

1980s, arms for hostages?

[Cdr Lytton]

From the start?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F.....d_overview

In 1795, Algeria came to an agreement that resulted in the release of 115 American sailors they held, at a cost of over $1 million. This amount totaled about one-sixth of the entire U.S. budget

[kinnath]

There is nothing that Obama can't figure out how to fuck up.

[Rich]

Is Obama so smart he can figure out how to fuck up his own fucking up?

[Bobarian (Mr. Xtreme)]

As long as it ends up worse than 'intended'; then yes.

[Rich]

Don't you mean "better than"?

[Bobarian (Mr. Xtreme)]

I guess it's all a matter of perspective.

And if you have any.

[Lord Humungus]

Waste Water from Oil Fracking Injected into Clean Aquifers
California Dept. of Conservation Deputy Director admits that errors were made

State officials allowed oil and gas companies to pump nearly three billion gallons of waste water into underground aquifers that could have been used for drinking water or irrigation.

Those aquifers are supposed to be off-limits to that kind of activity, protected by the EPA.

"It's inexcusable," said Hollin Kretzmann, at the Center for Biological Diversity in San Francisco. "At (a) time when California is experiencing one of the worst droughts in history, we're allowing oil companies to contaminate what could otherwise be very useful ground water resources for irrigation and for drinking. It's possible these aquifers are now contaminated irreparably."

[antisocial-ist]

Isn't California always in the middle of the worst droughts in history?

[UnCivilServant]

Well, most of it is a desert being irrigated by points east.

[WTF]

Well, southern California is basically a desert, so it's really not surprising.

[Tonio]

Yes, and way over half of the homes there have swimming pools which they somehow manage to fill despite the ongoing worst-drought-ever.

[EDG reppin' LBC]

The Big Atlas of LA Pools. Combining statistics, geography, graphic design, and a bit of anthropology. Enjoy.

[db]

Yeah, that would be a big mistake. My question is what treatment did the water receive prior to reinjection?

[Tonio]

That doesn't matter, database, that water was used in fracking. We're not talking scientific purity, we're talking ritual purity.

[Injun, as in from India]

Remember how Oregon wasted a ton of water because some idiot micturated into their reservoir? It's time to out do them! Quick! Drain the aquifer!

[UnCivilServant]

Oregon is also a temperate rain forest, so that water isn't all that scarce.

[Steve G]

Actually, I think they reversed course on that before they drained it since someone explained PPM to them...

[Brett L]

The problem is that we can now measure in PPB.

[Don Mynack]

""We are still comparing the testing of what was the injection water to what is the tested water that came out of these wells to find out if they were background levels or whether that's the result of oil and gas operation, but so far it's looking like it's background," said James Marshall from the California Department of Conservation."

So...nothing happened.

[Kaptious Kristen]

But how could this possibly happen in progressive paradise, California??!?!!?!11!/?

[VicRattlehead]

obviously the state department needz moar taxes

[Fist of Etiquette]

A member of the Federal Communications Commission warned net neutrality would be a back door for an Internet tax.

Democrat member or Republican member?

[Drake]

Or foolishly honest member ? la Gruber?

[Bobarian (Mr. Xtreme)]

Waitaminute... are you recording this?

[Lord Humungus]

University's new 'vaqueros' mascot decried as 'racist, gender biased'

The University of Texas ? Rio Grande Valley hasn't even opened yet and already its mascot has been decried as racist and gender biased.

Some students, scholars and others associated with the newly forming University of Texas ? Rio Grande Valley are demanding University President Guy Bailey step down after he helped pave the way for its mascot to be "Vaqueros."

Vaquero is masculine in Spanish, and it was criticized not only for gender bias, but critics also said "a Vaquero and the eventual cartoon depiction of one will be drastically culturally insensitive and ripen with Hispanic stereotypes."

[Florida Man]

Just use the revolver as the mascot. Problem solved.

[Ted S.]

Even vaqueras get the blues.

[EDG reppin' LBC]

It's just a cowboy.

[SugarFree]

I think you mean cowperson.

[WTF]

Seriously, what the fuck is racist about a cowboy?

[SugarFree]

After WTF's cisgendered and heteronormative interrogation, I had to go out to my car and cool off. I started crying about how there is so much destructive ignorance in this world and the Republicans that are behind it. I finally had to get a cake out of the trunk and ate the entire thing while looking for plus sizes in Old Navy. Why won't Old Navy carry sizes for REAL WOMEN? I cried some more in the car and ate another cake. Of course, my fucking MAN BOSS wanted to know where I had been for two hours. I had to go into the "ladies" room and cry in a stall. And my Effexor script is out.

[Rich]

"Go on ?." is *too* "written in an English script"!

[Tonio]

Bravo, Sug.

[WTF]

Nice

[SugarFree]

And then he catcalled me.

[Swiss Servator, spare a franc?]

Uh....*uptwinkles*?

[VicRattlehead]

stop perpetuating white sterotypes you racist!!!

[Doctor Whom]

You mean that when you use a loan word from a language that's saturated in grammatical gender, you end up with a gendered word? Let me put on a culturally sensitive shocked face.

[gaijin]

^this. I mean, imagine the outrage when they realize doors are feminine. Men entering and leaving at will through said portals...very rapey

[Trigger Warning]

+1 la mano.

[R C Dean (fka Clown Hunter)]

Vaquero is masculine in Spanish,

For a bunch of culturally sensitive people, they seem to have missed the fact that every noun in Spanish is gendered one way or the other.

Basically, they are saying the entire language is sexist. Culturally sensitive and respectful types that they are.

[Fist of Etiquette]

The latest potential candidate for president in 2016 is Gov. Jerry Brown (D-Ca.), who tried to run for president in the 1970s, 1980s, and 1990s.

He'll do for America what he's done for Cali.

[Bo Cara Esq.]

I hope the same people who pointed out how pathetic Romney's perpetual quest to become President was note Brown's much worse history doing the same.

[Tonio]

Meh. Sorta. Remember that George Romney, Mitt's father, spend decades chasing the nomination, so it's an ongoing quest. This also has a lot to do with the Mormon quest to become mainstream by getting one of their's elected as president.

[Homple]

"This also has a lot to do with the Mormon quest to become mainstream by getting one of their's elected as president."

This also has a lot to do with the LIBERTARIAN quest to become mainstream by getting one of their's elected as president.

FTFY

[DJF]

He's just another Californian trying to escape the state before its too late. The problem is that going from California to Washington is like going from the frying pan to the fire.

[Mokers]

jerry brown will be 78 in 2016. So he'll fit right in with Pelosi and Reid.

[waffles]

I think some Californians believe he is saving their state. He also has regularly vetoed the batshit insana California Assembly. He's bad, but not worse than anything else big D can serve up.

[Bobarian (Mr. Xtreme)]

Yes, ol moonbeam was somewhat effective as mayor of Oakland, too. A decent local politician.

But on a national level, he'd be a frickin train wreck.

[Robert]

Decades ago I found a number of things to like about his ideas. That's because he popped off in so many directions, he pleased everyone at some point or other. I think it was in monolog slide show on the reality show "Real People" that the m.c. said the following street sign described his policies:

TO GO LEFT, MAKE 3 RIGHT TURNS

[VicRattlehead]

California Uber Alles comes to mind

[Bo Cara Esq.]

Civil Rights, Gay Rights, Foodie Rights Next?

"Civil rights had a bridge in Selma, Alabama, and gay rights had a bar in Greenwich Village. Last week, foodies made their stand at a former Rockefeller family dairy in New York's tony Westchester County. A group of more than 200 food activists, peppered with a few dozen conventional farmers, ranchers, and retailers, gathered at the Stone Barns Center for Food and Agriculture for a meeting organized by the New York Times to discuss the future of food. Their goal was to transform a trend into a full-fledged social and political movement."

http://www.slate.com/articles/.....barns.html

[Ted S.]

It's the Smug Diet: people who think their food choices are more virtuous, and want to use the state to impose them on everybody else.

[Bo Cara Esq.]

Yes, and I found the opening line, comparing the march on Selma and the Stonewall Riot to be hilarious, and interestingly indicative of the self-importance and categorical errors many on the left are currently prone to.

[Restoras]

You have to dine on smug at that restaurant. The portions are - small. Very small. It is also insanely expensive so only the 1% of the 1% can really afford to dine there.

[WTF]

And I was hoping it was something to do with protesting the government not allowing people to sell and purchase raw milk and other government restrictions. I should have known better.

[Tonio]

It's not foodie rights so much as economic rights on the part of the sellers and merchants. Foodies have always had the freedom to put whatever they want in their mouths, it's just that most of them don't go to the trouble of having their own cows or goats to produce their own raw milk.

[Lord Humungus]

Victor Davis Hanson's Daughter died.

I saw him speak years ago - debating Arriana Huffington over the Iraq War.

[Restoras]

Sad to hear. He is easily one of our finest historians.

[waffles]

The FBI is warning that the grand jury decision in Ferguson over whether to indict Officer Darren Wilson for the killing of Michael Brown will likely lead to violence.

It's too cold for that shit.

[Rich]

"More Molotov cocktails, coming right up!"

[SugarFree]

Charles Manson and his 26-year-old fianc?e Afton Burton received a marriage license.

At least it's not a couple of uppity fags.

[waffles]

+1 traditional marriage

[Lord Humungus]

Interviewer refuses to allow economy minister to show photograph of victims of the terrorist attack at Jerusalem synagogue.

A BBC interviewer refused to allow Economy Minister Naftali Bennett to show a photograph of victims of the terrorist attack in Jerusalem in an interview Tuesday morning.

Bennett appeared on BBC World News after a Palestinian spokesman, who claimed that Jews were murdering Palestinians in Jerusalem.

The Bayit Yehudi leader responded: "The fact is that [Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas] himself incites and tells the Arabs 'take arms and fight the Jews.'"

[NebulousFocus]

And the law itself was hotly debated, passed by wide margins, signed, upheld by the Supreme Court, and ratified once again in a presidential election. It's also working as intended. If Congress held every significant bill to the standards of openness that it applied to Obamacare, it would amount to a massive, massive increase in legislative transparency. That's incontestable. And it makes the law as legitimate as laws get.

It doesn't matter what Gruber said, this is the most legitimate law ever.

[Drake]

Was I in a parallel universe when it was not debated, there were no meaningful hearings, it passed the Senate along pure party lines by Senators who never read the bill and was "deemed" passed in the House by a hack who said we had to pass it to see what was in it?

[Zeb]

I'm still confused about how it passed at all. "Deemed"?

[Drake]

Yep. It took some crazy parliamentary tricks to get this hunk of shit passed ("by wide margins").

http://www.ocregister.com/arti.....-bill.html

[jmomls]

*ratified once again in a presidential election.*

So I guess liberals can shut up FOREVER about the Iraq War, since it was passed by large margins in both Houses of Congress and "ratified once again in a presidential election" in 2004.

[Drake]

We can use that as proof of all kinds of stuff - segregation, tossing Japanese Americans into concentration camps, Reagan's tax cut...

[gaijin]

and ratified once again in a presidential election.

Elections have consequences...when I say they do

[Doctor Whom]

Voting results are holy ... when they agree with me.

[Auric Demonocles]

This idea that members of the legislature have no right to look at previously passed laws is bizarre. Or it would be, if it wasn't obviously being put forth in just this one situation where they like the previous law.

[Rich]

Whatever the law's supporters and authors claim about the intent and meaning of the statute, the right no longer needs a fact-based response. They can instead deny the existence of a basic truth about the law because as Gruber suggests, the law was designed to hide the truth about itself.

Sheesh, Beutler, get a grip.

[Scruffy Nerfherder]

If Congress held every significant bill to the standards of openness that it applied to Obamacare

They'd have to pass them all to find out what's in them.

[Trigger Warning]

The law's parents were married!

[Redmanfms]

passed by wide margins

Really?

Didn't it pass by only 1 vote in Senate?

If Congress held every significant bill to the standards of openness that it applied to Obamacare, it would amount to a massive, massive increase in legislative transparency.

Yeah, ok guy.

It's nice to see that even the "moderate" progs are choosing this clusterfuck hill to die on.

[R C Dean (fka Clown Hunter)]

And the law itself was hotly debated, passed by wide margins,

219 - 212 is a wide margin?

http://www.opencongress.org/vote/2010/h/165

[Ken Shultz]

Cultural conservatives make everything weird.

In their world, gay people shouldn't be allowed to get married, but Charles Manson can do whatever the fuck he wants.

[UnCivilServant]

Actually, In our world, Manson would have been executed decades ago.

I blame California.

[Ken Shultz]

In his defense, Manson never actually killed anybody. He was nailed for conspiracy.

And in 1971, Reagan was the Governor of California, California's own Richard Nixon was the President of the United States, and, politically, California was to the right of present day Arizona.

[UnCivilServant]

Yeah, he technically was a cult leader who only ordered murder, but didn't weild the knife, how does that reduce culpability?

[Ken Shultz]

Has anyone ever been executed for conspiracy to commit murder?

Manson would have been a great candidate to break that rule--but for those rulings in 1972...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/P....._aftermath

Whether he's culpable and whether that culpability rises to death penalty status are two separate questions in my mind--just like whether you're guilty and what your sentence should be are two separate questions.

[SugarFree]

Mary Surratt, the first white woman executed in the Untied States, was convicted on only conspiracy.

[Ken Shultz]

In the 1800s, they used to hang horse thieves, too.

No, stealing a horse isn't equivalent to conspiring in the assassination of Abraham Lincoln, but then what Manson was convicted for probably doesn't rise to the level of assassinating the President of the United States either.

[Ken Shultz]

...and cultural conservatives still make everything weird.

[R C Dean (fka Clown Hunter)]

I would have said that assassinating the President doesn't rise to the level of what Manson was convicted of.

I mean, geez, just count the bodies.

[Ken Shultz]

Nixing a President gets into treason and nullification of democracy...

Harming or murdering children is worse in certain ways, too.

And let's remember--he didn't kill those bodies you're counting. He conspired to kill them.

Yeah, that's the same thing for purposes of conviction, but I'm not sure telling someone else to kill someone is qualitatively as bad as killing someone--from just the sentencing standpoint.

[Zeb]

I'm not sure telling someone else to kill someone is qualitatively as bad as killing someone--from just the sentencing standpoint.

I can understand the argument. Though others make the opposite claim. In NH, for example, hiring someone to murder someone is one of the few specific things you can be executed for. But perhaps you would consider that different.

[Bo Cara Esq.]

Conspirators can face the same punishment as their co-conspirators who carried out the act in question. Terry Nichols came close to getting the death penalty for this reason. Historically speaking, think of people like Marry Surrat who was hanged for her part in the conspiracy to murder Lincoln.

[trshmnster the terrible]

Doesn't the MPC have a specific exception for capital crimes? I dunno how many states have that exception, but I think that modern day conspiracy trials have the death penalty taken off the table.

[Bo Cara Esq.]

No, Terry Nichols faced it, as did Moussaoui the 9/11 conspirator.

[trshmnster the terrible]

You're right, I'm thinking attempt, where they won't kill you if you merely attempt a capital crime.

[DJF]

"""And in 1971, Reagan was the Governor of California, California's own Richard Nixon was the President of the United States""

You mean the guy who voted 4 times for Roosevelt and while President did nothing to shut down any major Roosevelt program and the guy who created the EPA, pushed Affirmative Action and made communist China our buddy

[Jordan]

He also closed the gold window. Fuck, Nixon was a piece of shit.

[Ken Shultz]

Neither Nixon nor Reagan may have been cultural conservatives at heart--but the left widely considered them cultural conservatives, and the cultural conservative on the right supported both of them big time.

[DJF]

The left motto is no enemies to the left and left keeps moving left so anyone who is not constantly moving left is the enemy

The right liked Reagan's rhetoric but failed to remember that Roosevelt's rhetoric was the same, he ran the 1932 campaign against the wasteful spending and deficits of Hoover. Reagan was a Roosevelt president, the left hated him because he had not kept on going left, especially culturally

[Ken Shultz]

If anything, that's just further evidence of how weird cultural conservatives can be.

[Ken Shultz]

Reagan wouldn't even stand up for James Watt banning the Beach Boys from the National Mall.

Did Reagan ever do anything for the social conservatives? I can't remember him even throwing them a bone.

He was just such an intense focus of hatred by the counterculture in California, that he had a huge rep as a cultural conservative.

I guess when he made the kids at Berkeley start paying tuition, they got so mad, it drove them insane.

[Apatheist ?_??]

and made communist China our buddy

Um, is opening relations with China supposed to be a bad thing?

[Heroic Mulatto]

In DJF's world, The Chinese are inscrutable opium addicts with small hands who only wish to abduct the delicate flowers of White womenhood and enslave them in the brothels of San Fransisco.

[DJF]

So China had a communist government and today it still has a communist government and the claims that "free trade" will change this have still not come true but lets ignore that and talk about brothels in San Fransisco

[kbolino]

So China had a communist government and today it still has a communist government and the claims that "free trade" will change this have still not come true

China calls its government communist, but it's really fascist. The communist illusions have been shed in all but name and the country's economy is mixed, albeit heavily tilted toward state control.

Now, that's not to say they can't swing backwards, and it's certainly not to say that China is a free country (far from it), but to say that nothing has changed in China since 1972 is patently absurd.

Deng Xiaoping would likely have been just another political enemy lined up and shot ignominiously if not for the positive changes brought about from trade with the West.

[Jordan]

Manson did tie up a couple of victims before telling his followers to go in and finish the job, IIRC.

[Zeb]

Wasn't Manson originally sentenced to death, but CA got rid of execution before he could be executed?

[Ken Shultz]

Yeah, I linked it above.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/P....._aftermath

[SugarFree]

Nope, you got to back up. Manson wouldn't be alive to get married because he was complicit in the murder of a fetus. No one cares about the grimy slut it was in, but that fetus would have gotten Charlie lynched.

[Ken Shultz]

That's pretty weird!

...but you're right, maybe no weird enough for cultural conservatives.

[Notorious G.K.C.]

No, if cultural conservatives had had their way in the 1970s, Manson would be dead now, and ineligible to marry.

[Bo Cara Esq.]

#CultureofLife!

[Notorious G.K.C.]

I guess you skipped the class wherecthey taught you the difference between the rights of the innocent and the rights of the guilty. That would explain a lot.

[Bo Cara Esq.]

#Cultureof(Some)Life!

[Notorious G.K.C.]

#cultureofBotardation

Let's see if I can spell it out for you

1) If you're convicted of a sufficiently serious crime, then your right to life is subject to the public interest - though perhaps in the modern era, the public interest no longer requires the death penalty

2) If you're innocent, then there is no such utilitarian weighing of the public interest, the right to life is *not* subordinate to the public interest.

I hope that wasn't too polysyllabic for you.

[Bo Cara Esq.]

Eddie, you just are not getting it. It's YOUR side that runs with the silly generalization 'culture of life' and 'culture of death.' Don't be all upset when you're called to live up to your slogans.

[Notorious G.K.C.]

So apparently my discussion above *was* too polysyllabic for you, since you were unable to engage it.

[Bo Cara Esq.]

Woosh.

[Notorious G.K.C.]

No, I answered you and you replied by repeating your retarded talking point and failing to engage my overly-nuanced discussion.

You seem to think it's somehow sinister that your opponents aren't as simple-minded as you are.

[Bo Cara Esq.]

The guy whose movement has the generalization 'culture of life' (and, to their opponents, 'culture of death') is now upset because I don't buy his later offered up nuance in defense of it.

You gotta love it.

[Notorious G.K.C.]

So you've studied Evangelium Vitae, the works of Robert George, and other defenses of the culture of life and are willing to engage those arguments and show why they're wrong?

Nah, just kidding, go ahead and project your imbecility onto your opponents and become indignant that they're not as retarded as you.

[Bo Cara Esq.]

You just don't get it, and it's increasingly hilarious. You want to have your cake (use a generalization like 'culture of life' for PR purposes) and eat it too (backpedal into 'nuance' when the generalization applies to something unpalatable, oh, no, we didn't really mean 'culture of life' we meant 'culture of life not convicted of serious crimes when there might be a threat to society')!

Also, I'm not sure you're being honest (or maybe accurate) about the uses of 'culture of life' from folks on your side.

http://www.usccb.org/_cs_upload/7917_1.pdf

[Notorious G.K.C.]

Your attribution of dishonesty to me is just as much projection as your attribution of stupidity to your opponents.

I take it you *haven't* read the actual arguments of your opponents articulating and defending the concept of a culture of life.

You're not trying to impress some coed at an abortion-rights rally, slogans and shouting won't suffice to establish your point.

[Notorious G.K.C.]

Thank you for linking to the bishops' arguments which follow the same lines as I articulated above, though in your Botardation you seem singularly obtuse in noticing the parallels.

[Bo Cara Esq.]

"which follow the same lines as I articulated above"

You mean an unequivocal call for an end to the death penalty in the US as part of a culture of life?

[Notorious G.K.C.]

Let me correct something I said earlier. Not even the most bubble-headed coed would be impressed at your intellect; it simply isn't your strong point. I would recommend relying on your charm and good nature instead.

I've already spelled out my point at 9:45, but in case you've drooled on the keyboard so much as to disable the scrolling function, here is my point again:

"1) If you're convicted of a sufficiently serious crime, then your right to life is subject to the public interest - *though perhaps in the modern era, the public interest no longer requires the death penalty* [emphasis added]

"2) If you're innocent, then there is no such utilitarian weighing of the public interest, the right to life is *not* subordinate to the public interest."

Some (like the bishops in the document you quoted) weigh the public interest and oppose the death penalty. Others weigh the public interest and support the death penalty.

But that's the standard for the *guilty* person's right to life - the right of the *innocent* to life isn't subject to that kind of utilitarian calculation of the public interest, it's an absolute right.

[Bo Cara Esq.]

"slogans and shouting won't suffice to establish your point."

Says the guy defending his movement's slogan. Wow, you really are something.

[Roger the Shrubber]

SLD

I've heard the argument that the death penalty should be seen as a reflection of how how much we value the life of the victim instead of how little we value the life of the murderer.

[Bo Cara Esq.]

There might be a good argument to be made there, but I still think it's going to be hard to square with the slogan 'culture of life' (and, for their opponents 'culture of death'). It's a rhetorical non-starter, and the slogan is, after all, a rhetorical device.

[Every Cop is a Criminal]

^^This is how trite motherfuckers actually reason^^

[Notorious G.K.C.]

The rhetorical device from your side (if we're going to insult each others' "sides") is to concern-troll the prolifers into purging death-penalty supporters from their movement. The idea is that anyone (Catholic, Protestant, or any or no religion) who *really* opposes the killing of the innocent unborn is bound, for the sake on consistency, to oppose Florida's execution of Ted Bundy or Israel's execution of Adolf Eichmann.

That's all there is to it. Anyone who *really* opposes the Culture of Death is bound to accuse Israel of murder for hanging Eichmann.

Guess what - prolifers disagree on these issues (I'm generally on the anti-death penalty side), and they're *all* sincere opponents of the culture of death - which unlike your concern-trolling isn't a random slogan but a well-articulated doctrine which you are too invincibly ignorant to familiarize yourself with.

[Notorious G.K.C.]

Let's not muddy the narrative.

[Notorious G.K.C.]

(response to Roger the Shrubber)

[Citizen Nothing]

Or the difference between the rights of people and of potential people.

[Tonio]

Lulz.

[Zeb]

Aren't Catholics supposed to oppose the death penalty and leave life and death decisions to God?

[Notorious G.K.C.]

The doctrine is - if the death penalty clearly serves the public interest, it's justifiable, if not, not. Pope St. JP II said the public interest, *in modern conditions,* rarely if ever justifies the death penalty. That's not really the same as an absolute horror at any execution.

[Notorious G.K.C.]

But just to be clear - the prolife movement includes non-Catholics! It also includes some Catholics who believe (a) that the death penalty is already sufficiently rare in the US to fit in with JP II's doctrine, or (b) that JP II was wrong.

I happen to adhere to JP II's statement, simply because he was a Pope and a saint and may even have been speaking infallibly, and if not is still entitled to be obeyed.

But I'm dealing with a concern troll who would call prolifers (of all religions) impure, and even supporters of the culture of death, for supporting Eichmann's execution.

[Mickey Rat]

Nice "principals before principles" argument. It is a complete non-sequitor. Bravo!

[Ted S.]

Update: in the PM Links yesterday, I mentioned David Thompson's takedown of a blogger who was bitching about teh "lumbersexual" trend. The blogger responded, and the projection is hilarious:

so check out the angry old white dude who felt the need to take shots of me on his blog clearly catered towards boring angry white dudes. then check out the comments it reads like a who's-who of manly mega super manly super duper insecure 'why does no one love me' men like wow this is the mra circus craptastic.

(That blockquote is a copy/paste, so none of the errors are mine.)

[Almanian!]

So much projection in so little space. Impressive.

[trshmnster the terrible]

How do these illiterates get a following? I want to pull my hair out simply from the grammar, let alone the vapidity.

[Heroic Mulatto]

A better question is how did he get a girlfriend?

[trshmnster the terrible]

Cis shitlord! The entity dating the author is agendered and pan sexual. Stop confining it to a gender by calling it a 'girlfriend'!

The question I have is whether pan sexual means it'll fuck anything that moves or that I should hide the cast iron when it comes over.

[Stormy Dragon]

And when you pull out your hair, you won't be able to be lumbersexual. His campaign is working!

[Kaptious Kristen]

WTF is the "lumbersexual trend"?

[Heroic Mulatto]

Hipsters with giant, bushy beards who wear flannel shirts and sometimes suspenders.

[Roger the Shrubber]

Beards and flannel are in. And some guys think following this trend it's a way to get themselves laid.*

*completely guessing

[Colonel Slanders]

If flannels are back in, When did they go "out"? 'cause I missed it.

[R C Dean (fka Clown Hunter)]

Roger, men do nearly everything because they think its a way to get laid.

[Brett L]

Sadly, marriage was the thing I tried that worked best. 🙁

[Kaptious Kristen]

OK, so just common filthy hipsters.

[Zeb]

Actually, most of the pictures I've seen look way to clean for lumberjacks.

[Raston Bot]

Knowing having a beard is a trend called lumbersexual makes me want to go shave.

[Bee Tagger]

Republican campaigns and outside groups may have used Twitter to communicate polling data without running afoul of laws prohibiting campaign coordination.

Hashtrotagging

[Bo Cara Esq.]

Two New Lawsuits (against Harvard and UNC) Seek to Have Bakke Affirmative Action Precedent Overturned

"The saga over the use of race in selecting new college entrants that began with the Supreme Court's famous ruling in Regents of the University of California v. Bakke nearly four decades ago now has a new chapter ? and it is intended to be the final one. Two lawsuits, filed Monday in federal courts against two major universities, are crafted to eventually put before the Supreme Court an explicit plea to overrule Bakke and later decisions on the issue."

http://www.scotusblog.com/2014.....ke-ruling/

[Zeb]

I don't even want to know what "Bukake affirmative action" is.

[SoCal Deathmarch]

The latest potential candidate for president in 2016 is Gov. Jerry Brown (D-Ca.), who tried to run for president in the 1970s, 1980s, and 1990s.

On behalf of all Californians I apologize in advance.

[Ken Shultz]

I'd rather have Jerry Brown than Liz Warren.

I'd rather have Jerry Brown than Hillary Clinton.

[gaijin]

IN a zero sum world and all that...

[Ken Shultz]

Yeah!

Well, those are the leading candidates.

The Democrats are so far to the left right now...

Moonbeam can run as a centrist and appeal to the left that makes up the Democratic primary base on his reputation alone.

Hillary and Liz "Smoke 'em Peace Pipe" Warren will be trying to outdo each other to show that they're more extreme than the other--right up until the Democratic Convention.

Moonbeam will start looking like Reagan by way of comparison.

[Mickey Rat]

That is like preferring smallpox over Ebola. Let us take a third option.

[Lord Humungus]

Washington Post: In Mr. Obama's own words, acting alone is 'not how our democracy functions'

It is 2017. Newly elected President Ted Cruz (R) insists he has won a mandate to repeal Obamacare. The Senate, narrowly back in Democratic hands, disagrees. Mr. Cruz instructs the Internal Revenue Service not to collect a fine from anyone who opts out of the individual mandate to buy health insurance, thereby neutering a key element of the program. It is a matter of prosecutorial discretion, Mr. Cruz explains; tax cheats are defrauding the government of billions, and he wants the IRS to concentrate on them. Of course, he is willing to modify his order as soon as Congress agrees to fix what he considers a "broken" health system.

That is not a perfect analogy to Mr. Obama's proposed action on immigration. But it captures the unilateral spirit that Mr. Obama seems to have embraced since Republicans swept to victory in the midterm elections. He is vowing to go it alone on immigration. On Iran, he is reportedly designing an agreement that he need not bring to Congress. He already has gone that route on climate change with China.

[waffles]

The latest potential candidate for president in 2016 is Gov. Jerry Brown (D-Ca.)

Fuck yes! Brown versus Rand is the election we deserve. OR at least Brown versus Hillary for a bloody primary. Still think we're doomed. Depends on what Obama wants to give his party good n' hard during his last two.

[Injun, as in from India]

No f***ing way Rand will be the GOP nominee. The warmongers will destroy him. I hope my deep pessimism is wrong, but given my past experience, I doubt that will be the case.

[Lord Humungus]

Image of Virgin Mary grows on tree in Iowa

The mysterious image of what many are calling a perfect likeness to the Virgin Mary can be seen on the side of tree located at the intersection between 3rd Street and Bridge Road in Polk City, Iowa. A Nov. 14 report by KCCI 8 News explains that the shape in the tree is about 6 feet tall. It has residents asking what it really means.

While many claim it is the likeness of the Virgin Mary, others say it looks like Jesus. Still others claim to see the image of Mother Mary holding baby Jesus in her arms. There are, of course, skeptics who claim the image on the tree is only an illusion. They claim people only see what they want to see.

[waffles]

I see both, it's Madonna. But it's not a miracle, it's a neat tree.

[waffles]

You want a miracle? Show me Jesus on some artisinal toast.

[UnCivilServant]

But with artisnal toast, the toastmaker could have carved the bread to bear the image before toasting.

[DJF]

God works in artisnal ways.

[waffles]

It would be a miracle if it could be produced without a hint of irony.

[Ted S.]

Will this do?

[Palin's Buttplug]

If she squirts blood out her ass its a miracle.

[Restoras]

Wassup, The Weigel? All out of Tears of Sorrow so you come here to create some more?

[Palin's Buttplug]

I love gridlock, you moron. I fear one party control.

[WTF]

Were you born a fat, slimy, scumbag puke piece o' shit, or did you have to work on it?

[Restoras]

Poor The Weigel, has a sad, he's all out of Tears of Sorrow...

[Contrarian P]

And yet you've been on here for seemingly forever bloviating about how wonderful the ultimate example of single party control, Obamacare, is, and how much everyone supposedly loves it.

Sorry, but I have a hard time believing that even you don't see how silly your above statement seems to anyone familiar with your past output.

[Mike M.]

It would be so fucking awesome to have a JPEG of a graph charting the decline of Weigel's web hits from the Washington Post pre-JournoList exposure, to it's snarky retarded little borther Slate, to his new desert oasis over at Bloomberg Politics.

We could call it the Trail of Tears of Sorrow graph.

[SugarFree]

Those silly skeptics.

[Ken Shultz]

At least this one isn't in a slice of pizza.

P.S. Yeah, it's the southern protestants who are crazy?

[UnCivilServant]

I see this as no more crazy than seeing mysogyny in a shirt. But which group does more harm to others these days?

[gaijin]

It's a Rorschach World we live in

[Heroic Mulatto]

You mean we live in a world with a dog carcass in alley this morning, tire tread on burst stomach. This city is afraid of me. I have seen its true face. The streets are extended gutters and the gutters are full of blood and when the drains finally scab over, all the vermin will drown. The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the whores and politicians will look up and shout "Save us!"... and I'll whisper "no." ?

[Scruffy Nerfherder]

+1 Blue dude with blue junk

[Tonio]

Rohrschach, not Manhattan.

[Bobarian (Mr. Xtreme)]

"You're locked up in here with me!"

[SugarFree]

But which group does more harm to others these days?

The ones that don't see either in either, obviously.

[Zeb]

Yeah, it's the southern protestants who are crazy?

Midwestern ones too. Religious crazy seems to be pretty well distributed.

[Swiss Servator, spare a franc?]

Sorry, Chicago had a better version of this...

http://www.chicagotribune.com/.....story.html

Pic:
http://chicago.cbslocal.com/20.....underpass/

[Rich]

They claim people only see what they want to see.

"It's President Jerry Brown!"

[Swiss Servator, spare a franc?]

Close your eyes, can't happen here
Big Bro' on white horse is near
The hippies won't come back you say
Mellow out or you will pay
Mellow out or you will pay!

[BigT]

From The New York Times:

Health Care Law Recasts Insurers as Obama Allies

Antagonism over profits and regulation has given way to rising revenue for an industry, and legal and logistical support for the administration.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/11.....wrsm=Email

"But since the Affordable Care Act was enacted in 2010, the relationship between the Obama administration and insurers has evolved into a powerful, mutually beneficial partnership that has been a boon to the nation's largest private health plans and led to a profitable surge in their Medicaid enrollment.

The insurers in turn have provided crucial support to Mr. Obama in court battles over the health care law, including a case now before the Supreme Court challenging the federal subsidies paid to insurance companies on behalf of low- and moderate-income consumers. Last fall, a unit of one of the nation's largest insurers, UnitedHealth Group, helped the administration repair the HealthCare.gov website after it crashed in the opening days of enrollment."

Comments have progs doubling down on single payer!

[Bo Cara Esq.]

Wasn't this exact post in an earlier thread this morning?

[BigT]

Yes, I put it in a lightly traveled thread. This NYT article deserves wider circ.

[Bo Cara Esq.]

OK, just wanted to make sure I wasn't having some strange deja vu. I agree this story deserves attention.

[db]

You have to stake your claim to a hat tip early, and then go for the full exposure. Kind of like filing for a patent.

[trshmnster the terrible]

+1 file a provisional before our conference presentation tomorrow morning.

[Palin's Buttplug]

Crony capitalism - not socialism. What I have been saying to you Peanuts.

[Shirley Knott]

And the difference would be what, exactly?

[Restoras]

I think it is more akin to fascism (just another branch of socialism, true) where the state used large corporations to forcefully engineer social progress - with the politicians and the large corporations benefiting, of course.

What was it that Hillary said - she didn't have time to worry about every 'under-capitalized' company? The reason being, the large ones can be co-opted to adopt a legislative agenda with the understanding that their lobbyists will have plenty of leeway in the process to carve out protections for the large firms, at the expense of smaller firms and everyone that is forced to participate.

[BigT]

the relationship between the Obama administration and insurers has evolved into a powerful, mutually beneficial partnership

This is the definition of fascism, where the state does not own the means of production but is in collusion with select providers.

What got me is that this appeared in the NYT!! But if you look at the NYT favored comments, they are all 'single payer now' types. The lack of understanding is mind-boggling.

[Redmanfms]

Crony capitalism - not socialism. What I have been saying to you Peanuts.

No Weigel, you've been saying for about 5 years now that Obamacare is free market.

[Restoras]

Recasts? That was the intention all along.

[DJF]

""single payer""

taxpayer

[Bobarian (Mr. Xtreme)]

47%?

[Injun, as in from India]

Progs are totally against monopolies when it comes to the private sector, but when it comes to the darned government, they want a monopoly to f*** us all. The doublethink is mind boggling.

[Rich]

"Because you can be a good cop who doesn't shoot black people but if you give out more tickets in Ferguson than there are actually people in Ferguson, that's an evil system. ... And the thing that guides us is love?not the kind of love that you see somebody and you think they're cute?not that?deep abiding love."

Sekou is quite the orator.

[Lord Humungus]

Police: Couple had sex in car parked outside jail

A couple had sex in a car parked in front of the city jail Sunday evening, police said.

A caller reported the activity to police and said motorists were slowing down to watch.

"Officers responded to the front of the jail and found the couple still actively engaged," Springfield Police said in a press release.

Police arrested Kelli M. Knutson, 24, and Logan P. Jackson, 33, on charges of Indecent Exposure and Disorderly Conduct II.

[db]

Disorderly Conduct II: Automotive Boogaloo!

[Swiss Servator, spare a franc?]

Nice.

[Lord Humungus]

Kissing couples exchange up to 80M bacteria: study

In just ten seconds, one kiss can transfer up to 80 million bacteria, according to a new study published in the journal Microbiome.

Partners who kiss up to nine times per day share the same communities of oral bacteria, according to the study.

"Interestingly, the current explanations for the function of intimate kissing in humans include an important role for the microbiota present in the oral cavity, although to our knowledge, the exact effects of intimate kissing on the oral microbiota have never been studied," says lead author Remco Kort, from the Netherlands Organization for Applied Scientific Research (TNO)'s Microbiology and Systems Biology department and adviser to the Micropia museum of microbes.

[Idle Hands]

"Not only are you having sex with her but everyone she's ever had sex with."

[Lord Humungus]

it's a living /germ

[Zeb]

Partners who kiss up to nine times per day share the same communities of oral bacteria, according to the study.

What if they kiss more than 9 times a day?

[Bo Cara Esq.]

BYU Students Continue to Fight Beard Ban

"Brigham Young bans all chin hair (mustaches are fine), a rule set in place in the 1970s when school officials sought to distinguish their strait-laced students from the hippies staging demonstrations across the nation. And in recent years, even as beards have moved from hipster calling cards to mainstream accessories ? and as the university has worked to hone its contemporary image ? the beard ban has not budged.

In recent weeks, however, one student has begun a campaign to return the beard to Brigham Young, which has an enrollment of nearly 30,000 students. 'We want the option and ability to express personality through facial hair,' said Shane Pittson, 23, a tall, blond, cleanshaven student whose goal is to have the administration consider a change at the end of the school year."

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/11.....-well&_r=0

[Notorious G.K.C.]

The University's namesake:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wi.....Carter.jpg

[Injun, as in from India]

Dude also had lots of wives.

[Zeb]

So maybe they should allow beards and ban mustaches.

[Gadianton]

Interesting. When I went there, clean-shaven was the rule. No mustache, no beard, limited sideburns.

[trshmnster the terrible]

I find Mormons fascinating. They're like catholics in that they're extremely legalistic, but they don't have nearly as much of a SBNR contingent that most legalistic denominations have and their devout followers are extremely "worldly" compared to catholics and many protestants.

[Mickey Rat]

So what?

[The Late P Brooks]

Three Americans were among four worshippers killed in an an attack on a Jerusalem synagogue.

Gas up the drones!

[Heroic Mulatto]

Three Americans were among four worshippers killed in an an attack on a Jerusalem synagogue.

Killed in an attack by whom? Rainbow Six? The Romulan Expeditionary Forces on Khitomer? The Mongols?

Two knife- and ax-wielding Palestinian men broke into a Jerusalem synagogue Tuesday morning

Ohhh......

[Drake]

Well thank goodness there were no guns involved.

[Heroic Mulatto]

I blame the influence of the Left4Dead series.

[Restoras]

And I assume they weren't moose limbs either since the article didn't specify?

[Heroic Mulatto]

The whole damn thing is because a Palestinian bus driver committed suicide. As a few of us were discussing last night, the funhouse mirror room full of paranoid schizophrenics that is known as "the Arab street" turned a rather mundane suicide into, of course, a Zionist plot that must be avenged!

[Bo Cara Esq.]

Well, the bus driver's family casts doubts on the suicide verdict (of course, even if the man were murdered that would not justify the attack at the synagogue).

[Scruffy Nerfherder]

Of course they do, suicide is verboten in Islam (suicide bombings notwithstanding obviously).

[Bo Cara Esq.]

Of course there's no reason to think they're correct, but it's not like Israeli police officials are unassailable either. Everyone's an 'interested party' over there.

[Swiss Servator, spare a franc?]

I had a discussion with an Egyptian interpreter and a couple of Iraqi Army officers that involved UFOs...I am surprised my head didn't explode.
These people would have made Art Bell question their sanity.

[Heroic Mulatto]

It can't just be religion. I mean, sharia says nothing about UFOs. I've had pediatric surgeons from the region tell me straight to my face that 9/11 didn't happen. Not "truther"-ing, mind you. But that it didn't happen, period. No planes, no towers, no explosions.

[Swiss Servator, spare a franc?]

Oh yeah..I think it was P.J. O'Rourke that described "radio bemba" in Panama that "broadcast" some crazy stuff about Noriega and Miss Panama rumors, werewolves being loose in the countryside, etc.

Humans be crazy.

[KDN]

It was all one big incidence of mass hysteria culminating in a group-wide hallucination. I didn't actually see the first tower collapse from the stairway in my college's faculty building because the tower was never actually there. Trippy!

[Heroic Mulatto]

I think the mass hysteria was induced by HAARP, which was the creation of Zionist-Freemason-Lizard Person Ted Stevens.

Wheels within wheels, my friend.

[jmomls]

*Not "truther"-ing, mind you. But that it didn't happen, period. No planes, no towers, no explosions*

Then why did I have the bowl, Bart?

[Lord Humungus]

Democrats lash out at Pelosi
House members go on the record with rare open criticism of their leaders.

The discontent with Nancy Pelosi is breaking out in the open.

Democrats in the House have quietly grumbled about Pelosi since suffering devastating losses on Election Day, but there is a growing number of members willing to go public on their party leaders.

The list of grievances ? from the election losses, to routine procedures erupting into nasty fights ? has shaken the confidence many Democrats hold in their leader. So while Pelosi will be unchallenged for the top House Democratic post on Tuesday during a closed-door party meeting, the incoming minority leader is about to be in the worst position with her caucus since the end of their short-lived majority in 2010.

[Swiss Servator, spare a franc?]

So while Pelosi will be unchallenged for the top House Democratic post on Tuesday during a closed-door party meeting...

So this is just a bit of flatulence, outgassing from the "discontent donkeys".

[Injun, as in from India]

So this is just a bit of flatulence

You obviously have to pass it in order to find out what's in it.

[Steve G]

Ah, the airing of grievances -- it's a festivus tradition!

[Lord Humungus]

"Grubergate" Is Giving the Supreme Court Cover to Destroy Obamacare

But the controversies are actually conjoined, and the link between them explains why the right isn't merely going to run Gruber's name through the mud, but probably haul him in front of a congressional committee or two and recapitulate his sins every day until the Supreme Court determines the fate of the Affordable Care Act for a second time. The two Grubergates are being deployed together in service of a common goal.

That goal is for the Supreme Court's five conservatives to hobble the law without fear that their decision will be interpreted?correctly?as a spite-driven judicial logrolling of a statute conservatives hate.

[gaijin]

logrolling of a statute conservatives hate.

So 56% of Americans are now conservative? Who knew!

Gallup Finds 56% of Adults Oppose Obamacare

[Ted S.]

Expletive-deleted -gate suffix!

[Auric Demonocles]

as a spite-driven judicial logrolling of a statute conservatives hate.

The projection, as always, is outstanding. Yes, it's the people who are saying that "a state" means a state and "a penalty" means a penalty who are basing their conclusion on politics.

[Notorious G.K.C.]

Opposing one of our policies - "spite" and "hate."

Opposing one of their policies - courageous dissent.

[Injun, as in from India]

Don't worry, progressives.

John "Penaltax" Roberts will save the day for you.

[Fluffy]

The spite thing is true.

It's absolutely spite.

Where they go wrong is not realizing that spite is not a bad thing. At all.

When you hold someone to their exact words, and require them to be logically consistent, even if doing so will lead to an outcome they don't want, that's "spite". It's totally reasonable to call it that.

But you know what? Too fucking bad. You wrote the law, you passed the law - now we're going to hold you to the law.

[antisocial-ist]

Charles Manson and his 26-year-old fianc?e Afton Burton received a marriage license.

Useless trivia, one of the first cops on the scene at the Tate house was a guy named Don Markham. After seeing what the Manson Family had done there he decided to quit police work and become a high school football coach. He eventually created a new offense(the double wing) that has been at the center of countless turn around stories for programs all over the country including several teams coached by Markham himself. One of which broke the record for points in a season in 94 IIRC.

[Bo Cara Esq.]

"Police said the dead worshippers were three Americans and a Briton, and that all held dual Israeli citizenship."

How does dual citizenship work? Are you subject to the laws of both nations regardless of where you do something or live? And how is it squared with the citizenship oath Americans take, which includes "I absolutely and entirely renounce and abjure all allegiance and fidelity to any foreign prince, potentate, state, or sovereignty?"

[UnCivilServant]

Those of us born here never had to swear a citizenship oath, that's for nationalized citizens. Dual-citizenship from birth is perfectly legal under current definitions.

Also, Israeli law has expansive definitions of who can claim citizenship. So US-Israeli dual citizenship is among the most common around here.

As for whose laws apply, it depends on whose embassy you reach first.

[Injun, as in from India]

I've never understood how dual citizenship works. What if there is a conflict - either direct or one of interests - between the two nations you have citizenship in. What do you in that situation?

[Bo Cara Esq.]

My thought to. What would you be expected to do?

[R C Dean (fka Clown Hunter)]

Are you subject to the laws of both nations regardless of where you do something or live?

The US is pretty unique in claiming that its laws apply all over the planet, and not just in its own territory.

There really are very few conflicts of law that a dual citizen will encounter.

[Adans smith]

Much of the violence in Israel is due to other faiths wanting to go to the 'dome of the rock'.A site 'holy' not just to Muslims ,but Jews and Christians also.In fact,the Jews and Christians worshiped there for hundreds of years before Mo flew off to the heavens.Why not share?Oh,that's right,Muslims don't share.

[Injun, as in from India]

So all this fighting and bloodshed is happening because of differing claims about an imaginary friend made by various people who claimed to have the ability to talk to their imaginary friend? Organized religion is awesome.

[Swiss Servator, spare a franc?]

Perhaps the reaction of one group of adherents in the area differs than the other two...?

[Tonio]

^This.

[Lord Humungus]

We got blitzed with snow last night.

My wife took my car out to get to an appointment. And got stuck two blocks away. I'm working from home.

[Almanian!]

We got a dusting in my neck of the Mitten. Supposed to get an inch or two tonight.

Just a tip...just this once....just enough to fuck up the commute home...

[Ted S.]

Gotta love women drivers.

/sarcasm

[Lord Humungus]

and she got stuck again... still isn't home... jeebus. It is a RWD car and a stick shift so some finesse is required.

[Almanian!]

Scariest car in the snow, ever? My '71 Camaro with bald tires.

Frightening...

[The DerpRider]

My roommate from Texas at WMU in his mids 80s olds. Hilarious. Drove it once, crashed into snowbank, parked it, and didn't drive it again until spring.

[Almanian!]

I learned to drive on a '73 Olds 88. BIG OLE RWD car. It really wasn't an issue in snow. Probably because it weighed as much as a house. What a great car.

The Camaro was just treacherous. Hard the believe it was my daily driver for 5 winters...

[SugarFree]

My '79 MG Midget was the best car I have ever driven on ice.

[Lord Humungus]

my ol' 94 Roadmaster was great in the snow. Big and heavy + posi-traction made for plenty of grip.

[Kaptious Kristen]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6qgREMBTE28

[John]

I drove a rear wheel drive Mustang in the snow and ice clear through college. It was a bit of an art to drive it properly. But it can be done. You just need some sand bags in the trunk and good tires.

I remember as a kid people used chains every winter. With those old cars you had to.

[Lord Humungus]

I drove a '68 Firebird with bald tires out back and snows in the front?! Only teenage stupidity let me get through the Michigan winter.

Apparently a 325i with performance orientated rubber isn't the best car for her to drive... it was pretty rough going for me yesterday.

And she turned the traction control off and tried to spin her way out of getting stuck. Nice.

[Almanian!]

I have a '14 Mustang GT convertible. It's amazingly competent in the snow, but about 90% of that is tracking control. Turn that off, and you get to play Sit 'n' Spin like when you were a kid...

I leave it at home on days like today and let my wife drive it to the store if she dares to venture out!

[John]

With traction control, there is no excuse for not being able to drive in the snow and ice these days. If you have an AWD or a front wheel drive car with traction control and good winter tires, the only thing that should stop your car is bottoming out from lack of clearance. If the road is plowed, you should be able to get through it.

[Restoras]

All that stuff is great but it doesn't matter a stitch if 1) everyone doesn't have it, and 2) everyone doesn't add significant time and distance to make a stop.

[John]

This is true Restoras. People say you can't drive on ice. No, you can drive on ice you just can't stop on it.

And yeah people are morons and can't drive on dry pavement most days.

[KDN]

With traction control, there is no excuse for not being able to drive in the snow and ice these days.

I used to drive a Chrysler Crossfire with TC, it only made things worse (TC makes everything worse). That car was brutal in bad weather.

[John]

KDN,

That is interesting. I have only driven one car with AWD and traction control on ice, my wife's MERC C Class. I find that think to be wonderful on snow and ice. Perhaps it depends on the control system.

[KDN]

The car was a Merc SLK 320 below the skin, so it's likely a similar system. The tires were extremely low profile and likely more at fault, but all of my experiences with that car just left a bad taste in my mouth regarding TC. Two cars later I still turn it off whenever the weather gets bad.

I'm convinced that TC and stickshifts just don't go together. It just short-circuits every natural tendency you have to correct a grip issue.

[John]

Mine is an automatic. Maybe it is the stick that is the problem. My 911 is a stick and has traction control. I will see how it does this winter. Maybe I should turn the PSM off listening to your experience.

[BigT]

I had a 77 Corolla with belt tires on the rear and radials on the front (I couldn't afford new tires). It was quite difficult to handle on dry pavement, and a stiff challenge on snow.

[The DerpRider]

We got some, but it's been so windy it's hard to tell how much. My wife said to shovel, but I see the temps will hit 40 by the weekend so I'm holding out.

[The DerpRider]

Oh, and when I left to workout at 5:30 this morning the wind chill was -5. We're still in the middle of November FFS.

[Almanian!]

Yeah, it was +10 when I left for work. -8 wind chill.

FUCK YOU, WEATHER!!!

*shakes fist*

[Ted S.]

We got some snow overnight between last Thursday and Friday that's all melted. But it was enough to dust the branches of the trees, and I was able to get this reasonably nice photo of the trees with a half moon overhead.

OK, so I'm not a very good photographer.

[EDG reppin' LBC]

We got blitzed with snow last night.

Well if it gets too cold for you, you can always huddle around the warm glow of a hand-built tube amplifier. Enjoy the snow day.

[Bo Cara Esq.]

Jerry Brown will be 78 in two years, HRC 69. Party of the millennials indeed!

[robc]

I like the Jeffersonian approach to negotiating with terrorists.

Or, what Rep Harper said wrt the XYZ affair.

Anyway, they had it right around the turn of the century. Not this one. or that one either, go back another.

[The Late P Brooks]

We got blitzed with snow last night.

Imposserous!

[CampingInYourPark]

"We have experimented with choice in public insurance: Medicare Part D," Gruber stated on a presentation slide dated Jan. 22, 2013. "Typical senior has 50 PDPs [Prescription Drug Plans] to choose from."

But what's wrong with seniors being able to choose their own plan?

"Seniors do a terrible job choosing," Gruber said.

Gruber's slide then claimed that 12 percent of seniors allegedly picked the lowest-cost Medicare Part D plan and could on average save up to 30 percent more, without noting that some seniors pick prescription drug plans that work for them that are not necessarily the cheapest possible plan.

http://www.foxnews.com/politic.....are-plans/

[Bo Cara Esq.]

Gruber is the gift that keeps on giving.

[John]

What is amazing about the statement is how wrong it is. Gruber just assumes that choosing the higher cost plan is the "right decision" because it saves money. It isn't the right decision if the person makes the choice doesn't have very much money and can use what little money they do have better in other places than getting volume discounts on drugs. And buying the more expensive plan only benefits you if you purchase a lot of drugs. Well, not everyone does that.

If you followed Gruber's logic a single person living alone is foolish not to join COSCO since you can save a lot of money buying in bulk there over the grocery store. I don't understand how someone with his background could make such sloppy and wrong statements.

[Bo Cara Esq.]

Gruber's thinking is like most 'public health experts,' who prioritize what they see as valuable elements as 'objectively' the best ones. The essence of progressive 'expertism.'

[John]

Yes. The "best choice" is whatever choice best supports his Rube Goldberg scheme.

[Bo Cara Esq.]

It's the essences of expertism. Public health experts talking about food will choose a value, say some medical health measure, and then anything that maximizes that is good, anything that doesn't is necessarily bad. Never mind that real people might also value taste, being full, cultural traditions, etc., and be willing to make trade-offs, those are the WRONG DECISIONS, period in their minds. And anyone who disagrees is of course 'anti-science.' But science doesn't pick among values.

[John]

Yes, the assumption is that everyone is homo healthicus makes every decision completely based on what is "good for you" or they are irrational.

[Bo Cara Esq.]

It's that but even worse imo, there is no rational way to determine what is 'good for you.' I might find eating a food which raises my cholesterol worth it because I think it is good for me in other ways (it gives me pleasure, it puts me in touch with a cultural tradition I value, etc). They're just taking what they value and, because it can be medically measured, putting the stamp of science on it and calling it 'objectively good.' But that's nonsense.

SoCons are guilty of taking with they value and putting the stamp of religion or tradition on it, and then trying to use the state to make other people follow those values, but progressives do the same thing just with 'science.' But science is not about what we should value.

[John]

There is no way to tell "what is good for you". Some people rationally trade pleasure now for a shortened lifespan later. There is nothing wrong with that.

An extreme example is them trying to ban soldiers in combat from smoking. You have people who stand a good chance of death or maiming in the near term but somehow they are supposed to forgo the pleasure of smoking because it might give them lung cancer in 30 years.

You can't choose what people value. Some people really would rather live fast and leave an attractive corpse. I don't see how anyone can say they are wrong in wanting to do that. You can only say "I wouldn't want to do that".

[Bo Cara Esq.]

Agreed, which is why the best policy for government is to let people as much as possible choose to follow their values (the pursuit of happiness) as best they see fit.

[John]

Yes Bo. Society has a self correcting mechanism. Not every person is self destructive and not every bad trend goes on forever. It is like obesity. At some point people will get tired of being fat and younger people will see the effects being fat has on the old and they will take measures to not be fat. The public health experts see any trend and just draw it off to infinity as if society has no ability to self correct without 'experts' stepping in.

It doesn't work that way.

[Palin's Buttplug]

Gruber just shot his campaign in the nuts.

[Rich]

?

[Almanian!]

Forget it, Rich. It's shriekville.

[tarran]

It's not sentient; the best thing is not to waste your time trying to parse the random string of words it cobbles together to form its comments.

It is trying to scavenge responses by feeding you comments like an ant feeding aphids to scavenge their waste products.

[Palin's Buttplug]

If Gruber were planning to run for something these tapes will be used against him. He is done.

[WTF]

Don't lock eyes with 'em, don't do it. Puts 'em on edge. They might go into berzerker mode; come at you like a whirling dervish, all fists and elbows. You might be screaming "No, no, no" and all they hear is "Who wants cake?" Let me tell you something: They all do. They all want cake.

[BigT]

Gruber would be best to think about whether MITTTT will kick his ass out. They certainly have cause.

[Lord at War]

Rich- By "his", PB meant Hillary. And by "nuts", PB meant the parts of his own ballchinian face visible while licking her brown eye.

[The Late P Brooks]

When I was in high school, we lived in upstate New York (near Lake George). This morning, I decided to check out the Weather Channel, just for fun. When they started talking about feet of lake effect snowfall overnight in the Buffalo area, I thought I had been transported back in time. I can't wait for the inevitable clips of people clearing four feet of snow off their roofs with snowblowers.

[Restoras]

Did the Lake Effect snow belt extend to Lake George back in the day?

[Ted S.]

The Albany TV channels tend to mention the massive amounts of lake effect snow that the Tug Hill plateau gets.

Lake George is a pretty place, but a tourist trap.

[UnCivilServant]

Lake George is a pretty place, but a tourist trap.

Sadly, they use no-kill tourist traps these days. So the infestation keeps growing.

[Almanian!]

When I was in Cleveland, I lived on the West side, so we never really got the lake effect.

The EAST side? Holy SHIT! It's like the west coast of MI - my cousins used to get feet of it as far in as Kalamazoo.

Old Man Winter with a lake in front of him? He's a prick...

[Lord Humungus]

welcome to my world. Why the fuck do I live in Grand Rapids is the question I ask myself every year.

And then spring comes along and I forget the terrors of snow.

[Almanian!]

We went over to Grand Haven this fall. Holy FUCK was it cold on the water! But soooooo beautiful. I love Lake Michigan....although it will kill you in an instant if you don't respect it.

[BigT]

Almanian, I live in the edge of the CLE east side snow belt. We had 10 inches Friday and another 3 yesterday. It's not as severe as Chardon or Ashtabula, however. And don't forget that day a few years ago when Buffalo got 72 inches in 24 hours.

[Mike M.]

I love the irony of the fact that the senate will be voting on the Keystone Pipeline on the coldest day in about nine months during a period of record-breaking blizzards from the northern plains to New York.

[VG Zaytsev]

Glowbull warming.

[The Late P Brooks]

Did the Lake Effect snow belt extend to Lake George back in the day?

Sorry, no. But those big dumps in Buffalo got a lot of coverage on the Albany teevee stations. We did, in those ancient pre-global-warming times, have snow on the ground pretty much straight through from Thanksgiving to St Patty's Day.

[Almanian!]

Sandi said she took a big dump in Buffalo, once.

i miss Sandi...

[Rich]

Me, too.

I hope she's not getting constipated as she ages.

[SugarFree]

And someone just nuked their acting career from orbit...

Actress Katrina Day came across this casting call a few weeks ago and decided she'd had enough.

"That was the final straw," she says in an interview at HelloGiggles. "A perfect, five-word representation of everything I'd been struggling against as an early career actress and feminist." She started a Tumblr called Lady Parts, collecting (and anonymizing) casting calls that are as tiresomely offensive as they are run-of-the-mill.

[John]

Did you read Jennifer Lawrance's plan to make poparazzi photos illegal? She is tired of losing her privacy as a price for being a millionaire A list actress. Talk about nuking your career. Her entire career is based on her being attractive and likable to the public. She might want to give former A list actors Katherine Hagel and Gweneth Palthrow a call and ask them what happens to your career when the public concludes you are a bitch. It results in you doing TV shows if you are lucky.

[SugarFree]

I think she needs to come back to Kentucky for a while, get in touch with her roots.

[Lord Humungus]

your root?

[Mike M.]

Is it odd that I think she's not that good-looking?

[John]

She is not a raving beauty. She has an incredible body but her face is not incredible. But, that is I think part of her success. She has a really hot body that draws men to her movies and a face that is, while not unattractive, not so attractive women feel threatened by her.

[SugarFree]

And her face sort of goes back and forth. She's kinda of meh in Hunger Games, but then cute as a button in Silver Linings Playbook.

[Free Society]

I don't know. I saw the Fappening photos. I'd bang her but I wasn't impressed. If a woman with her looks moved in next door to me, her looks would only slightly raise the average on my street.

[guy who gets things wrong]

she kinda has dumbface. like Eli Manning.

[Mike M.]

I wonder if she does that shoulder-shrug move whenever she screws up a take during shooting.

[Free Society]

Is it odd that I think she's not that good-looking?

I thought I was alone. Bless you, Sir.

[Restoras]

Nope. If you saw her on the beach you wouldn't look twice.

[Lord Humungus]

this. I enjoyed the Fappening photos - who doesn't like to see celebs nude? - but I've known girls hotter than that.

[John]

I would. I thought the frapening photos revealed her to have a great body. But perhaps he just hits my tastes more than others. I like women who are small, have some curves and perky natural breasts.

[Heroic Mulatto]

When I'm not acting in or writing plays, you can find me penning my latest romance novel, fawning over my cats Starbuck and Boomer, or perfecting a new recipe (cocktail or otherwise).

I'm sure Ms. Day's romance novels contain absolutely no reference to stereotypically gendered archetypes.

[gaijin]

She probably realized she had no acting career ahead of her...and sexism becomes the excuse?

[The Late P Brooks]

Lake George is a pretty place, but a tourist trap.

Yes, it is. I have only been back there a couple of times since I graduated from high school.

My parents moved away during my freshman year in college, but I was able to ferret out their whereabouts.

[The Late P Brooks]

Scariest car in the snow, ever? My '71 Camaro with bald tires.

BAH! '69 AMX, 390, 4-speed.

YEEEEEEE HAAAAW!!!11

[Almanian!]

One of the TKE's at my school had a red AMX with the 390. Gorgeous car.

[JD]

How U. of San Diego Added 8 Female STEM Professors

"We had a huge number of applicants, from diverse candidate pools. We were gender-neutral during the application process, but if the choice was between two equally qualified junior-professor candidates, women were chosen. (We were in touch with our legal staff at all stages of the process.)"

[Heroic Mulatto]

That's awesome! I'm sure the fact that they got preferential treatment during the hiring process won't hang from their necks like an albatross for the entirety of their academic career with consistent skepticism as to their actual competence and the quality scholarship!

GRRL POWER!!!!!

[Heroic Mulatto]

*and the quality of their scholarship

[Bo Cara Esq.]

It appears they got a 600,000 dollar grant from the NSF to hire female faculty.

[trshmnster the terrible]

Yay! WE paid for this! Excellent!

[Injun, as in from India]

^THIS.

[R C Dean (fka Clown Hunter)]

We were gender-neutral during the application process, but if the choice was between two equally qualified junior-professor candidates, women were chosen.

Incredible, the total lack of awareness revealed in this sentence. If you're gender-neutral, you don't break in tie in favor of one and only one gender.

[Emmerson Biggins]

Ya. We were totally gender neutral until the point where we started discriminating based on sex.

I wonder if a similar defense could be used to not make a gay wedding cake at gunpoint.

[John]

I have never been up there, but a friend of mine who had been to both places told me the finger lakes of New York look just like Lake Como in Italy, which is pretty spectacular. Are they really that awesome?

[waffles]

I spent a few summer weeks in Skaneateles. The lake is a deep, clear, and cold. The town is boring but charming. The mountains aren't as austere as the alps though. Yeah, it's awesome if you're into that sort of thing.

[Ted S.]

I'd think Seneca and Cuyaga Lakes are nicer than the smaller Skaneateles Lake.

[Mickey Rat]

Skaneateles is incredibly clear.

[Ted S.]

My sister went to Ithaca College (higher atop Cayuga's waters than Cornell), and that part of the state is pretty. Probably not as spectacular as the Italian Alps, though.

And get up to Watkins Glen sometime when the NASCAR race isn't on. The hike up the gorge is ridiculously easy. Also fit in a trip to the Corning Glass Works, whish has one of those hands-on types museums.

[Restoras]

I had planned to go to Watkins Glen to see the Ferrari Challenge race this year - thinking about it for next year. Would also like to work in a visit to Cooperstown though I don't think the two are that close.

[Crusty Juggler]

It is like a three hour drive.

[Restoras]

Holy crap. Ok, so it's a trip for a long weekend.

[John]

I would like to go up there and do a track day at Watkins Glen or go to a sports car race or something. It is one of those places that seems cool but you never seem to have a reason to go.

[trshmnster the terrible]

There is a ton of history there, and watching races at a top quality road course is unbeatable! I did motoGP at mid Ohio, and that was a blast. I haven't made it up to the glen yet, but it's on the list.

[John]

They ran the F1 US Grand Prix there for years. That was the track where Jackie Stewart walked away and didn't race what was supposed to be his last race after a teammate was killed in practice.

It is one of the three or four real classic road tracks in America. I need to go.

[Restoras]

There are a lot of events there during the summer though I think I'll pass on the NASCAR weekend. Lime Rock is another place to check out too.

[trshmnster the terrible]

I still need to get down to COTA at some point. I keep hoping for an indycar/sports cars doubleheader. That would get me off my lazy ass and down to Austin for a weekend.

The actual track is a bit of a tossup in my mind. It's a cool layout, but it is a sterile modern F1 track with miles of fake grass runoff and painted concrete. I much prefer Laguna, Road America, and the Glen in terms of racing ambiance.

[John]

I agree with you about the ambiance. The problem is that unless you are willing to go back to the days of killing three or four F1 drivers a year, you just can't race F1 on anything but a sterile course like the COTA. F1 cars are just way too fast to run safely at a place like Watkins Glenn.

Even a track like Imola is no longer on the F1 schedule anymore because people don't think it is safe enough after it killed Senna. Sadly, F1 is probably doomed to forever race on sterile boring tracks.

[Crusty Juggler]

Ithaca is gorges!

[Andrew S.]

I would go to that area fairly regularly during the summer when I lived in Syracuse. It's beautiful. I very highly recommend it to anyone.

[Kaptious Kristen]

Watkins Glen is beautiful.

[Fluffy]

The lakes are nice, but generally are surrounded by incredibly tacky 50's-era American highway travelogue architecture. So you can get some nice views if you're into hiking and can get away from the parts that are built up, but if you stay near the roads you're pretty much looking at the cold weather equivalent of driving down A1A in Florida.

[Mickey Rat]

Cayuga Lake has the tallest single drop waterfall in the eastern USA. Not real mountains but rolling hills with vineyards or cornfields.

[Free Society]

A member of the Federal Communications Commission warned net neutrality would be a back door for an Internet tax.

All this resistance to FCC expansion coming from within the agency is nothing short of amazing. A bureau fighting it's own mission creep...wtf is going on

[VG Zaytsev]

It means more work for them.

We've come to the point where bureaucrats' laziness is the best defense against government expansion.

[John]

The FCC is a bipartisan board. Half of them are Republicans and half Democrats. What appears to be going on is that the Republicans managed to put the right sort of people on the board, which is pretty amazing when you think about it.

[Free Society]

It's remarkable. The system is designed to discourage those types from working in it. But then again, the FCC was devised as a sort of puritanical broadcast morality police so maybe a byproduct of socon bureaucrats is that they have some other team Red tendencies too.

[Bo Cara Esq.]

OK to fining Fox half a million for a dirty word slip, but no to an internet tax!

[KDN]

Word is that the Obama-appointed chair is he considers it a terrible idea.

FCC Chairman Tom Wheeler, who was appointed by Mr. Obama last year, knows that Title II would be a disaster for the Internet. He has never supported it. The New York Times reported that the pressure from Mr. Obama last week made Mr. Wheeler "testy, defensive and a bit angry that he might be seen as a political pawn." He deserves to be angry: The president is making him choose either to run his independent agency independently or to become a political lackey for the White House.

[John]

Wow. Good for him.

[The Late P Brooks]

I think she needs to come back to Kentucky for a while, get in touch with her roots.

Whose root?

[SugarFree]

Hamilton Nolan, warrior for the 99%, once again forgets where he works:

For controversial companies, the tactic of the moment is clear: attack! Attack! Attack your opponents, and smear them! The latest PR firm to offer this advice is Edelman, which advised an oil company client to attack the vicious, uh... community groups that oppose their plans.

[Andrew S.]

Everyone in the Gawker network (except maybe Drew Magary at Deadspin) has complete amnesia as to their own actions.

[The Late P Brooks]

One of the TKE's at my school had a red AMX with the 390. Gorgeous car.

I kinda miss the ol' AMX. One more thing about owning one; you never, ever walk out into a parking lot and have to ask yourself, "Okay- which one of those AMXs is mine?"

[kayledysonmul]

my roomate's step-aunt makes $77 every hour on the computer . She has been fired for five months but last month her payment was $20090 just working on the computer for a few hours. site here.....

?????? http://www.payinsider.com

[Cdr Lytton]

The latest potential candidate for president in 2016 is Gov. Jerry Brown (D-Ca.), who tried to run for president in the 1970s, 1980s, and 1990s.

YES!!!! We'll finally get a sequel to The Souler Opposite!!