General Motors Fined over Problems, Christian Woman Faces Death Sentence in Sudan, Camels Declared Possibly Racist: P.M. Links

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  Credit: Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike 2.0 Generic (CC BY-SA 2.0)

  General Motors has been fined $35 million by the feds for failing to report in a timely fashion problems with ignition switches in 2.6 million of its cars.

• A news editor for CNN's London bureau has been fired for repeated plagiarism offenses in about 50 published stories.
• Students at the University of St. Thomas in Minnesota won't get to celebrate "Hump Day" with a live camel because somebody worried that might be racist somehow.
• A pregnant woman in Sudan is facing a death sentence for refusing to recant her Christian faith.
• This weekend marks 10 years since Massachusetts became the first state to legally recognize same-sex marriages.
• The Swiss head to the polls this weekend to vote on whether to institute the world's highest minimum wage, the equivalent of $25 dollars per hour.

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Comments

[Fist of Etiquette]

A news editor for CNN's London bureau has been fired for repeated plagiarism offenses in about 50 published stories.

Should have copied off an organization with better ratings.

[jesse.in.mb]

Bah, there is NO WAY.

He's a witch!

[Citizen Nothing]

He turned me into a newt!

[jesse.in.mb]

A newt!?

[Citizen Nothing]

I got better.

[BakedPenguin]

He got better.

[BakedPenguin]

D'oh. It's a fait accompli

[Citizen Nothing]

Now he's turned me into a penguin!

[Citizen Nothing]

And I'm on the telly.

[Bobarian]

Intercourse the penguin!

[Sudden]

Sex with animals?

There's no time, man!

[Andrew S.]

Good Friday afternoon, Fist.

I got great news today. Kid got into the Charter school I've been desperate to get her into. No public school! Yay!

[Lady Bertrum]

Good news is good. Congrats!

[Rufus J. Firefly]

Not sure what it's about but congrats anyway because sounds as though Charter schools are popular among the extremists here.

[Wasteland Wanderer]

Charter schools are kind of a fusion between public and private schools. Parents can use the tax money that would have been earmarked for their kid if they had attended a public school to instead pay for a charter school of their choice, IIRC. Not as great as an all-private school system, but it does give parents more choices and since charter schools actually have to compete with each other and the public schools, the kids usually end up with a better education.

[Ted S.]

We're all extremists here.

[jesse.in.mb]

Ted S. being the king of the H&R extremists.

I once heard him threaten to necklace a poster who linked to something with GIFs.

True story.

[Ted S.]

It's not extreme to hate GIFs substituting for video.

[Damned Fool]

"A father who does not arrange for his son to receive the best education at the earliest age is neither a man himself nor has any fellowship with human nature." - Erasmus

Daughter in this case, but congratulations. If anyone tells you that you're sabotaging our hardworking public school teachers, tell them to die in a fire.

[Stormy Dragon]

Charter schools are still public schools.

[Rufus J. Firefly]

They fire Shero but not Bylsma. Interesting.

Wonder if the next GM will keep him.

[db]

Holy fuck, seriously?

[Rufus J. Firefly]

Yup.

[db]

I'm of the opinion that Bylsma does not deserve to go. However, I agree with Phil Borque that the Pens' management need to hand out more.internal discipline for players that constantly get the team in trouble (read Kunitz, Neal, Letang and others) by sloppy play and penalties at crucial point.in games.

Also, someone needs to straighten Crosby out--he's the best player out there but he there is.some kind of frustration he has.mentally that is.limiting him. And Fleury needs to have a consistency coach. His inconsistency may have been understandable early in his.career but nowadays, he has.the experience and should have the.emotional.wherewithal to fix his.slumps.

[Fist of Etiquette]

This explains much of the thinking.

[Fist of Etiquette]

Well, it did, before they removed the post.

[db]

Interesting.

[Rufus J. Firefly]

Nice sum up.

I still find it baffling they never insulated Crosby with a tough guy.

[Ted S.]

They fire Shero but not Bylsma.

Not yet.

[Fist of Etiquette]

They're leaving that decision up to the incoming GM.

[db]

Who is likely to be the current Assistant GM.

[Rufus J. Firefly]

Jason Botterill.

When I saw his name it was one of those 'so that's where he ended up" things.

Botterill played for Canada's junior team.

[Rufus J. Firefly]

I forgot.

Hello.

[Fist of Etiquette]

This weekend marks 10 years since Massachusetts became the first state to legally recognize same-sex marriages.

And 9 years, 11 months since it recognized same-sex divorce?

[Injun, as in from India]

Students at the University of St. Thomas in Minnesota won't get to celebrate "Hump Day" with a live camel because somebody worried that might be racist somehow.

This makes absolutely no sense to me.

[Notorious G.K.C.]

Then I bet they wouldn't like this at all:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cj9_yW8tZxs

[Ted S.]

How about this?

[Agammamon]

I think I'm going to puke.

[Slammer]

Or Ray Stevens

[BakedPenguin]

That's because of your Caucasian privilege.

[Bobarian]

the camel in the commercial is obviously talking in a racial dialect...

Dead camels are much less racist.

[110 Lean]

"This makes absolutely no sense to me."

I think it intimates that Arabs fuck their camels.

[Rufus J. Firefly]

Hey, remember the scene in Bugs Bunny when Bugs used Yosemite's Arab-thingy hat as a towel? Funny shit.

[Pl?ya Manhattan.]

I doubt that will ever be aired again.

I was watching Tom and Jerry with the kids the other day and it was awesome. They showed a lot of stuff that was no big deal in the '50s. Smoking cigs, cat calling women, etc.... all in a kids cartoon.

[Sudden]

They showed a lot of stuff that was no big deal in the '50s. Smoking cigs, cat calling women, etc.... all in a kids cartoon.

And that explains how I turned out the way I did.

[jesse.in.mb]

Drawn Together had a couple of episodes dealing with the sanitizing of cartoons that trotted out all the crazy racist stereotypes. I dug up some Speedy Gonzalez cartoons afterward and laughed my ass off.

[Rufus J. Firefly]

Oh man, I had some Woody Woodpecker cartoons from the 30s on VHS a while back. I cringed at the stereotypes but it was awesome.

[Rufus J. Firefly]

I'm surprised they still run 'All in the Family' given how fucking sensitive everyone is these days. Everyone and Lebron have an opinion on something these days.

[PapayaSF]

That was one of the great leftist media boomerangs of all time. Archie Bunker was supposed to become a figure of pure mockery, but he ended up coming off as having more common sense and even wisdom than Meathead et al.

[flye]

Yep, and as someone noted yesterday, similar to Jack Donaghy on 30 Rock.

[Ted S.]

The sign said, "Beware, the camel spits", and I was.

[paranoid android]

I find the fact that neither Mediaite's story nor the article it was based on include any quotes from the alleged complainants to be very odd.

[Rufus J. Firefly]

It's Progressivetown, Injun.

Let it go.

[Pro Libertate]

Ass is racist?

[Snark Plissken]

A pregnant woman in Sudan is facing a death sentence for refusing to recant her Christian faith.

Let the #hashtag assault begin!

[kinnath]

This weekend marks 10 years since Massachusetts became the first state to legally recognize same-sex marriages.

So the first offspring are what 9 years, 3 months old now.

[cavalier973]

Marriage has nothing whatever to do with childbearing. Only love matters.

[Fist of Etiquette]

The Swiss head to the polls this weekend to vote on whether to institute the world's highest minimum wage, the equivalent of $25 dollars per hour.

Good thing the Swiss are good at making things, because a whole lot of automation is going to be required in the coming years.

[Injun, as in from India]

Do we think alike? Is that called groupthink?

[Ted S.]

Libertarians never agree on anything!

[Fist of Etiquette]

I call it plagiarism.

[Injun, as in from India]

A pregnant woman in Sudan is facing a death sentence for refusing to recant her Christian faith.

Remember people. Religion of Peace. That's all you need to know.

[jesse.in.mb]

A pregnant woman in Sudan is facing a death sentence for refusing to recant her Christian faith.

There shall be no compulsion in [acceptance of] the religion. The right course has become clear from the wrong. So whoever disbelieves in Taghut and believes in Allah has grasped the most trustworthy handhold with no break in it. And Allah is Hearing and Knowing.

Fuck you very much, Islam.

[Warty]

Doesn't the Koran also say that you have to kill apostates? Hey, it's out of their hands, they didn't write the rules. If you don't like the law, maybe you should vote next time.

[Ted S.]

But it was written by a bunch of dead white men. Or one whitish guy, anyway.

[PapayaSF]

Actually, contrary to Islamic doctrine, is was written by multiple people. See the fascinating book Did Muhammad Exist?: An Inquiry into Islam's Obscure Origins by Robert Spencer.

[Injun, as in from India]

Apostasy is punishable by death, after a 3-day waiting period you are given to "rethink" your decision and repent.

[jesse.in.mb]

They wish that you should disbelieve as they disbelieve, and then you would be equal; therefore take not to yourselves friends of them, until they emigrate in the way of God; then, if they turn their backs, take them, and slay them wherever you find them; take not to yourselves any one of them as friend or helper.

Yeah, apostasy is a no-no. I think once you start getting to the commentary stuff they get even more stroppy about it.

[Pro Libertate]

Making it worse? How can it be worse? Jehovah! Jehovah! Jehovah!

[Warty]

Could be worse. You could be stabbed.

[Pro Libertate]

Hmmm. Stoned to death or stabbed.

[db]

If I.read that correctly, the rightness of Islam is so self.evident that the only way.one.could not embrace its faith is the deliberately eschew its wisdom. Therefore, there can be no.such thing as compulsion to accept Islam, and therefore, punishment of the infidel is not.coercion to convert.

Is that right? It sounds like a climate change screed.

[Damned Fool]

SOCIAL CONTRACT!

[Palin's Buttplug]

Today is the day when the Obama administration will answer for their actions and America will be restored. At least, that's what the participants of "Operation American Spring" were hoping to do.

The rally, organized by retired Army Col. Harry Riley, aims to "[restore] Constitutional government, rule of law, freedom, liberty 'of the people, by the people, for the people' from despotic and tyrannical federal leadership." Col. Riley predicted about 10 million people who descend upon the White House and the U.S. Capitol to stage a peaceful occupation of the city until their demands were met.

When I arrived, about 150 mostly white dudes were stationed in the middle of the National Mall. (One such gentlemen referred to me as the "liberal Jew media" when I asked a question.) Even Awesome Con had more people show up in their attempt to break the world cosplaying record. The other 9,999,850 must have got stuck in traffic from the rain, or something. Here are some more pics that aptly sum up Operation American Spring.

http://dcist.com/2014/05/photo.....ing_fa.php

[LynchPin1477]

More people would have come if they thought they'd have punch and pie.

[Andrew S.]

Free Hat!

[Andrew S.]

You got us, Shreek. Since a few racist fucktards beleive that the administration shows a blatant disregard for the Constitution, obviously all of us who think the same are also racist fucktards, and are all wrong for thinking it.

[antisocial-ist]

The middle shall not be distributed damnit.

[Palin's Buttplug]

Don't bring race into this. Race is boring.

These are the ultra paranoid freaks that Jesse Walker writes about. No one has taken their guns away, they can protest to their hearts content, and they can say anything they want anywhere they want to.

Yet people like Glenn Beck have convinced them that Obama is going to take their Bibles away and force them to accept gays kissing in their dumpy little towns back in the sticks.

THE FEMA CAMPS ARE HERE!!

[fuck you tulpa]

Yeah, and there was like, a very small crowd of them too!

That totally proves...something?

[Pl?ya Manhattan.]

If you don't like them in your town, why don't you move? What's keeping you in Georgia?

[Agammamon]

. . . and they can say anything they want anywhere they want to.

Tell that to the people in Nevada.

[OldMexican]

These are the ultra paranoid freaks that Jesse Walker writes about. No one has taken their guns away[...]

Not because they haven't tried, though. Truth be told.

and they can say anything they want anywhere they want to.

Except when they can't of course....

[Corning]

and force them to accept gays kissing

I don't recall Beck being particularly bad about gay rights...maybe i am thinking about pot legalization.

*looks at Internet

Nope he is not bad on gay marriage:

When O'Reilly asked again whether gay marriage was a harm to the country, Beck replied:

"I believe that Thomas Jefferson said: 'If it neither breaks my leg nor picks my pocket what difference is it to me?'"

http://www.policymic.com/artic.....s-in-favor

[Sevo]

GO TEAM BLUE! GO TEAM BLUE!
Did anyone ever tell you you're a boring pile of shit? Like your mom?

[Mike M.]

A short, fat, ugly, boring pile of shit with acne.

[Fluffy]

So the clear lesson here is "You can't count on ten million people to show up for your revolution, so you're much better off developing EMP weapons and superflu and deploying those."

[Longtorso, Johnny]

Hey Weigel.

[fuck you tulpa]

So basically you're saying the tiny turnout disproves the idea that there is a vast racist swath of Constitutionalists.

Nice to see you finally say something intelligent.

[Fist of Etiquette]

Students at the University of St. Thomas in Minnesota won't get to celebrate "Hump Day" with a live camel because somebody worried that might be racist somehow.

The name itself sounds more like a virtual sexual assault to me.

[Fluffy]

I feel microaggressed.

[db]

Perhaps you misunderstand the phrase "hung like a camel."

[Injun, as in from India]

That's it. That was the last straw for this camel.

[rts]

France and the UK will run out of fossil fuels within the next five years

The UK will run out of its own gas, coal, and oil within the next five years, according to a report released by the Global Sustainability Institute at Anglia Ruskin University. And France, which continues to rely heavily on nuclear energy, could run out of its remaining fossils fuels within the next year, reports the BBC. This means that the two countries could soon become completely reliant on global fossil fuel suppliers such as Russia, Norway, and Qatar.

[John]

And the US, provided we are too retarded to develop ours.

[Fluffy]

If the British are "running out of coal" it pretty much has to be because no one is bothering to identify new reserves.

The fooking island is MADE OUT OF coal. If all the coal was gone, the Brits would all be swimming.

[PD Scott]

They could even burn peat, if they had to. Maybe that's why Scotland wants to secede, so they can keep the peat to themselves...

[Slammer]

Or fetuses

[Sudden]

Interestingly enough, I'm planning on opening a scotch whiskey distillery in the lowlands that will use fetuses to smoke the malt in the kiln instead of peat.

I'm still searching for an appropriate name.

[Rufus J. Firefly]

Call it...

Sudden's Whiskey.

[jesse.in.mb]

I dunno, but your advertising campaign should be:

How many dead babies does it take to make the best scotch whiskey?

*fade to macabre scene of burning babies*

The world may never know...

*fade to young but obviously affluent couple enjoying themselves each with a drink in hand*

[Wasteland Wanderer]

Johnny Swift Whisky

or...

"A Modest Ethanol"

[Pathogen]

Artisanal Zygote Whiskey

[poloniusium]

What will the English eat if they divert the baby corpses to the power plants?

[Sevo]

"The fooking island is MADE OUT OF coal."

Yeah, but you can't expect the miners to actually go underground!

[Agammamon]

There are no more miners - Thatcher had them all killed.

[Corning]

The fooking island is MADE OUT OF coal.

Is there anywhere on the planet that isn't fossil fuel rich?

Texas check
California Check - why the rim of fire has oil who the fuck knows.
Midwest check
Rust belt check
Alaska check
Canada check
Mexico check
Appalachian mountains check
Gulf of Mexico check
Argentina check
Venezuela check
North sea and Norway, Sweden and Finland check
England check
France check
Germany check
Ukraine check
middle east check
Russia check
China check
North Africa check
Mediterranean sea check
Sub-Sahara Africa check
Madagascar check
Sea of Japan Check
Australia check
Arctic ocean check
Antarctica ...i don't know...has anyone ever looked?

I am getting the feeling that the claims that fossil fuel is scarce is complete bullshit.

[poloniusium]

My guess is that ideas about peak oil are founded on the idea that innovation doesn't occur . Sure, fossil fuels are harder to find and extract, but we've gotten better at finding and extracting them.

Basically, it's a reiteration of Malthusian ideas about agriculture. The believers don't understand the effects of technology and expertise on both supply and consumption of resources.

[Sevo]

I'll bet London hasn't grown its own food in just ages!

[Medical Physics Guy]

Bah! There was all this talk about fracking in the UK just last year. You would think this was a study from a pro-industry group trying to get fracking going, but doesn't look like it.

[Stormy Dragon]

The UK will run out of its own gas, coal, and oil within the next five years

Except for all the recently discovered Oil Shale.

[PapayaSF]

Jeebus, what bullcrap. The people issuing this report are saying that the projections of the Limits to Growth people are proving accurate. No, they are not. And there's no way the UK is running out of fossil fuels within five years.

[John]

But as the 2014 election season kicks into gear, that slide in black support may have stopped, even reversed. According to a May 5 Pew poll, 17 percent of African-Americans who are registered voters "lean" toward Republican candidates. The Wall Street Journal-NBC News poll, in March, found that support for Obama and his policies is "softening among blacks?."

http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/E.....h-be-there

That is very interesting. If 17% of the black vote ever went R, the Dems would be completely screwed. The Dems have lost and will never get back the white working class vote because to do so would mean giving up the ability for the gentry Progs to look down their noses at the white working class. That will never happen.

The blacks got a black Democratic President and are worse off to show for it. On top of that, a good number of blacks are evangelicals and socially conservative. At some point the total Democratic devotion to the Kulture war and feminists and gays might start to have an effect.

[Sudden]

I blame Michael Sam

[poloniusium]

This seems as good a place as any.

What does the commentariat think about Sam?

The reality show business suggests that he's doubtful that he'll make the cut and is making the best of the publicity he has, while he has it.

What will the proggie reaction be if he doesn't make the cut? Sports news is pretty thoroughly apathetic about his gayness, but I bet the Rams get crucified if they don't make him a critical part of their team.

[PapayaSF]

Ben Carson for Vice President?

[Warty]

I think maybe I understand now why old money types hate the nouveau riche. Let's have a small, intimate, simple wedding...in Versailles

[John]

Money can't buy class or taste.

[Corning]

Yes it can.

[Pl?ya Manhattan.]

I thought that if you've been married more than twice (Kim K), you're not supposed to have a ceremony anymore.

[Sudden]

I thought she only had one marriage and a sex tape.

[Pl?ya Manhattan.]

2. She was married before that boring sex tape.

I'm sure that this one will work out, though. No ego conflict and whatnot....

[Sudden]

YOU'RE CALLING RAY-J A LIAR?!?!?!

[PapayaSF]

You expect these folks to defer to taste, etiquette, and tradition?

[Bobarian]

Why would they want to get married in Kentucky?

They don't seem to be fans of bourbon and horses.

[BiMonSciFiCon]

Will Gandalf be there to do his fireworks thing?

[PD Scott]

Hmm, which is more deserving of the "Fly, you fool!" line, Kim or Kanye?

[Snark Plissken]

"short, loud little people living in a fantasy world"

[Pro Libertate]

Real wealth is getting married on Titan.

[Snark Plissken]

Too late, Titan has officially left the solar system.

[Pro Libertate]

All the better to show off your wealth. Only really rich people can actually leave the solar system. The nouveau riche buy cheap cruises to the heliosphere, being easily deceived.

[jesse.in.mb]

I'm now imagining going to space in a Victorian smoking room with old, but well cared for leather chairs that smell faintly of sweet tobacco.

[Pro Libertate]

Is there any other way to travel?

[Snark Plissken]

What have you got against transporters, huh?

[Pro Libertate]

Nothing, except beaming into space means death.

[jesse.in.mb]

Riding on the back of Garuda?

Activating the pyramids to bring down an ancient egyptian space ship that's been hiding behind the moon?

Astral projection?

[Ted S.]

Isn't that what steampunk is?

Alternatively, Jules Verne's From the Earth to the Moon was made into a movie in the late 1950s.

[Pro Libertate]

No. Steampunk is silly. Comfort is not.

[Sudden]

I believe that was exactly the vision Richard Branson presented to his engineers.

[Notorious G.K.C.]

Pat Buchanan gives some love to Ralph Nader:

"Because they have principles and visions in conflict, left-right alliances inevitably fall out and fall apart. Because they are almost always on opposite sides of disputed barricades, it is difficult for both to set aside old wounds and grievances and come together. A social, moral, and cultural divide that did not exist half a century ago makes it all the more difficult. But if the issue is keeping America out of unnecessary wars and restoring American sovereignty, surely common ground is not impossible to find."

http://www.theamericanconserva.....once-more/

[Injun, as in from India]

The Swiss head to the polls this weekend to vote on whether to institute the world's highest minimum wage, the equivalent of $25 dollars per hour.

And along with it, the world's fastest pace of automating low skilled jobs.

[Sevo]

When I was there, it was obvious that the Swiss weren't really comfortable with brown people disturbing the views.

[Injun, as in from India]

I would never move to Europe. Their countries are defined by language, ethnic identities. America on the other hand is based on an awesome idea, not some sort of identity thing.

[Pro Libertate]

Which idea is that? Tits?

[Injun, as in from India]

...endowed by their creator with certain inalienable rights, that among these are Tits, Ass, and the pursuit of Carnal Pleasures.

[Pro Libertate]

You've come to the right country! Heck, we invented sex.

They had the Bollywood "Oscars" here in Tampa, and I can't help but wonder what the Indians learned from Tampa's world famous nude strip clubs.

[Injun, as in from India]

This joke describes a lot of Indian men: http://www.berro.com/joke/no_offense.htm

[Free Society]

I thought the Pakistani men would just rape the Pakistani woman and then stone her to death for lewd behavior.

[Pathogen]

".. I can't help but wonder what the Indians learned from Tampa's world famous nude strip clubs."

Hep-C.. and how to avoid it..

[Calidissident]

Reddit discusses leaving libertarianism

"I was a meeting attending, fund raising, card carrying libertarian until the fall of Baghdad. The day we used the tank to pull down the Saddam statue in the town square after adorning it with an American flag executioner's hood, I watched the whole thing play out live on Fox News. It frightened the living daylights out of me that I'd become so jingoistic that I'd supported a war which?after watching the spectacle?amounted to little more than personal reprisal. I declared a 90 day moratorium on watching television.

I turned the TV off and picked up a philosophy book. I went through a lot of deep introspection for the next few weeks. At some point I started listening to NPR. At first, the "misinformation" and "liberal bias" made me mad?it also made me do my own research. At the end of 90 days and a lot of reading I was rather proudly declaring myself a liberal.

As Colbert famously said, "Reality has a well known liberal bias."

TL;DR: Turned off Fox. Skull full of mush succumbed to liberal brainwashing."

And what do you know, Reason even gets a mention!

"But they have a Libertarian news-magazine/website called Reason(.com)!

That should be all the reason you need, it's in the name."

DRINK!

http://www.reddit.com/r/conspi.....a_liberal/

[Damned Fool]

Those dastardly warmongering libertarians supporting their interventionist foreign policy. Complete opposite of Obo and Hillary.

[John]

How the hell does someone decide not to be a Libertarian because of the fall of Baghdad? I would say this guy was never really anything but confused and stupid.

[Palin's Buttplug]

Stossel, who has fairly solid libertarian cred, shills for Fox News.

Guilt by association!

[John]

Yeah you know a lot about being confused and stupid. Sadly, that apparently doesn't give you any insight into why or how this guy is confused and stupid.

[BakedPenguin]

Or just a complete liar.

[Calidissident]

I can understand if he had been a conservative who turned liberal due to the Iraq War. I can't fathom how it turned him from a libertarian to a liberal. A lot of conservatives became libertarians due to the war.

[Virginian]

A lot of conservatives became libertarians due to the war.

I think a lot more conservatives will be rediscovering a more sensible Nixonian or even Eisenhower style foreign policy. Maybe even kick it like Taft did. We can hope anyway.

[Slammer]

It's gotta be joke. It's too fucking stupid.

[Ted S.]

That was my first thought, too.

[Andrew S.]

I normally like Conspiratard (and even subscribe) for the fun of laughing at the /r/conspiracy toolbags. This one bothered me.

Also: A Salon article about leaving libertarianism for the beauty of liberalism? NO WAY! That's, like, never happened before.

[Calidissident]

There's quite a few subreddits like that, unfortunately. SubRedditDrama, badhistory, Conspiratard, and TheBluePill come to mind. The stuff and people they make fun of provides hilarious non-stop entertainment, but from time to time they turn into left-wing circlejerks that get tiresome.

[Protagoronus]

The stupid, it burns. You see, we are libertarians because we desire to be enslaved.

[?]panmictic 27 points 7 hours ago*
After leaving my small town upbringing, I learned that libertarians are made for lots of reasons, [...] They were contortionists, justifying the excesses of the capitalist elite, despite being victims if libertarian politics succeed.
Haha, true, libertarianism is the ultimate slave mentality and the vehemence with which they assert their desire for freedom only further collaborates my suspicion that they are trying to excise a nagging feeling that the exact opposite is true. In my experience libertarians love freedom the way anti-gay televangelicsts love consensual heterosexual intercourse with the woman they are married to.

[paranoid android]

Part of me is curious as to what the rest of the thread is like, and part of me would not like to die of an aneurysm right now...anyone in there giving the circlejerk any pushback, at least?

[Protagoronus]

I got that far and quit for my health. No push-back that I could see, though there was a semi-reasonable thread of people that seemed to be talking to itself.

[Scruffy Nerfherder]

Since Epi isn't here, PROJECTION

[trshmnster the terrible]

To the tune of O Canada

Ad Hominem
Our thoughts can't be explained
We think you should be seen with disdain
With blackened hearts we slanderize
All who wish to be free
From far and wide,
Ad Hominem, we use this fallacy!
Ad Hominem, because you're easy!
Ad Hominem, our favorite fallacy!
Ad Hominem, you're a mean Nazi!

[Corning]

justifying the excesses of the capitalist elite

This guy's fantasy job is to work for a progressive non-profit funded with secret money donated by Walmart and Comcast.

[Juice]

I thought I recognized this stupid article. It's from like 6 months ago.

[Corning]

Amusing.

Though it should be pointed out that as of late more Democrats have stopped being democrats to become libertarians then the other way around.

Gee I wonder why Salon would spot light an outlier of a growing political trend rather then an example of the actual trend.

[Acosmist]

Picked up a philosophy book.

Well, there was your first problem.

[Sevo]

So, yesterday's thread on deaths-by-government had numbers light by, oh, 50,000,000 people.
We didn't include *watermelon* deaths-by-government; the 'environmental' regs that have those ol' unexpected consequences:
"MALARIA VICTIMS: HOW ENVIRONMENTALIST BAN ON DDT CAUSED 50 MILLION DEATHS"
http://www.discoverthenetworks.....sp?id=1259
Oh, and Tony? Still waiting for the 'lives-saved-by-governments'. Still waiting...

[Sevo]

When can we start counting watermelon deaths as a result of GMO bans?

[Snark Plissken]

R Lee Ermey has murdered a lot of watermelons, and he used to work for the government. Coincidence?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S7LtR9ABQvE

[Mike M.]

"The corn is peeking up through the soil and its covered in snow."

So, how's that so-called "global warming" working out for the people (especially the farmers) in Illinois these days?

[Ted S.]

It's "climate disruption", not "global warming". Until that scare phrase tops working, too.

[Corning]

"20th hottest summer in 43 of the 50 states!!

13th coldest winter in north!!"

...

"Isn't that just normal then?"

...

"Climate disruption!!!!"

[Coeus]

IPCC reports 'diluted' under 'political pressure'

Several experts familiar with the IPCC government approval process for the 'Summary for Policymakers' (SPM) reports ? documents summarising the thousands of pages of technical and scientific reports for government officials ? have spoken out about their distortion due to political interests

Wait... I thought it was loony toons conspiracy theory to think that government was influencing the climate reports?

[Corning]

loony toons conspiracy theory are inhibited by direction.

Underestimating the IPCC is loony

Overestimating the IPCC is recognizing the vast political powers of oil corporations.

[Coeus]

Spitting, Stalking, Rape Threats: How Gun Extremists Target Women

As Longdon sat waiting for her flight, a screen in the concourse showed footage of the press conference. A tall, thin man standing nearby stared at Longdon, then back at the screen. Then he walked up to Longdon and spat in her face. No one else blinked.

Longdon was shocked and embarrassed, she told me, but she didn't falter. "Wow, aren't you a big man," she said as he turned and walked away. Instead of calling for security, she wheeled herself to a restroom to clean herself off. She was tired?she lives with constant physical pain?and didn't want to miss her flight.

"Should I have done something more? Quite honestly, in the scheme of things it was a little man and a little moment," she said. "He felt to me like a coward and a bully."

I'll take "Shit that never happened" for $100, Alex.

[Slammer]

She should have shot him.

[John]

Who is that even talking about?

[lap83]

"then he walked over to the baggage claim and knocked an old woman unconscious with a briefcase. The old woman was stunned for a second, lying on the ground, clutching the photo of her recently deceased african-american husband who had fought his whole life against social injustice..."

Yeah, I vote for made-up too. it's like the prog version of a penthouse letter.

[Coeus]

There's also the fact that she belongs to a group that's been caught in lie after lie (Moms Demand Action for Gun Sense in America).

[Scruffy Nerfherder]

That's right in there with racist teabaggers

[WDATPDIM?!]

Longdon. What an awesome last name.

[Coeus]

Clarence Thomas thinks so.

[Bo Cara Esq.]

"Students at the University of St. Thomas in Minnesota won't get to celebrate "Hump Day" with a live camel because somebody worried that might be racist somehow."

Racist? Sexist I could see...

[Agammamon]

When you have sex with camels, its like saying that women aren't necessary.

[Coeus]

Haters gonna hate

I'm not saying the secular world doesn't have its share of creeps and perverts, of course. I have spent my time giving the stink eye to grown men on the train who think it's cool to hit on teenage girls.

Who want's to bet that that started at the same time she began to notice the crow's feet?

[Corning]

Pretty sure that New York girl gave the stink eye to any man who hit on her who did not have a big enough *cough* wallet.

Now the stink eye goes to all men hitting on other women regardless of size.

[Mt low rider]

Please give trigger warnings when linking to Marcotte...it sucks me into a vortex of stupid and causes damage to the kitchen cabinets when I bang my head on them.

[Notorious G.K.C.]

A right-wing theocrat at Salon criticizes Harvard's satanic mass -

"... Presumably institutions of higher education aspire to greater goals than exposure to whatever not-norm is floating around in the cultural ether, but if a metric existed for selecting Satanism in particular, it was never provided....

"At the end of the day, the world probably learned more about Catholicism from this fiasco than "other cultures" or Satanism in particular due to numerous prolonged media discussions of consecrated hosts and the Eucharist, both of which Catholic authorities routinely seemed far better versed in than their Satanic adversaries. This is probably due to Catholicism *actually having an ethos* related to sacramental theology and evangelism, both of which were prominent features of the church's complaint. In that sense it seems the HECSC did accomplish *something,* namely giving the public a primer on Catholic sacramental practice in keeping with its educational purpose. The sad reality is only that it took another organization directly contradicting the activities of the HECSC to carry out its work." [emphasis in original]

http://www.salon.com/2014/05/1.....cellation/

[The Late P Brooks]

As Colbert famously said, "Reality has a well known liberal bias."

Well, okay then. Because Colbert is THE foremost authority on political philosophy.

What possesses these bozos to think anybody gives a shit about their "epiphanies"?

[Longtorso, Johnny]

Alex Morgan Has a Fantastic Golf Swing and Celebratory Dance

[Coeus]

I am amazed that they feel that this is a valid reason to deny a study.

Thankfully, IOP Publishing has decided to make the full reviewer reports publicly available so that we can all see why Bengtsson's paper was really rejected:

"The overall innovation of the manuscript is very low, as the calculations made to compare the three studies are already available within each of the sources, most directly in Otto et al?

Summarising, the simplistic comparison of ranges from AR4, AR5, and Otto et al, combined with the statement they are inconsistent is less then helpful, actually it is harmful as it opens the door for oversimplified claims of "errors" and worse from the climate sceptics media side."

Far from denying the validity of Bengtsson's questions, the reviewers set out ways he could improve the work:

"A careful, constructive, and comprehensive analysis of what these ranges mean, and how they come to be different, and what underlying problems these comparisons bring would indeed be a valuable contribution to the debate.

[Coeus]

Yes, you read it right. They only way that the reviewer would pass it is if he explained away the discrepancies in a plausible manner.

[Juice]

This part

it is harmful as it opens the door for oversimplified claims of "errors" and worse from the climate sceptics media side.

is no reason to reject a scientific paper and does not belong in a review of a scientific paper. If the analysis isn't new or done well enough just say that. But adding that it would fuel some other side in a debate is out of line.

[poloniusium]

Science is about consensus and consensus building. Skepticism is not allowed.

Or so you would think.

[Juice]

University of Reading

Aren't they all?

[Coeus]

No, some are of Riting and Rithmatic.

[John]

This Jill Abramson NYT affair is really funny. Basically it is Prog fantasy land meeting reality. Did the NYT pay her less because they are sexist? Maybe but unlikely. More likely is that they paid the other guy more because he had been at the paper longer and they rewarded longivity. They also had more money when they hired him and could afford to pay him more. Moreover, the market for journalists and editors gets worse every year and the going rate for a top flight editor was higher then than it was when they hired Abramson. All of those are legitimate and likely reasons for the disparity. In the real world employers hire you for the least money it takes to get someone of your qualifications and they don't give you a raise generally until you show up with a better offer and make them do so.

Abramson, however, lives in Prog fantasy land. And in Prog fantasy land, all women must be paid equally as men for doing the same job. The differences I describe above don't matter. So she rightfully in her eyes saw sexism. Meanwhile. the NYT has to pay bills and live in reality. In reality, paying every new hire the same as the old hires in a market that gets smaller every year is a ticket to bankruptcy. But hey, the NYT are a key contributor to the creation of the Prog fantasy world that Abramson lives in, so fuck them.

[tarran]

I'm actually engaged in a slow debate on facebook right now with an angry ex-HS classmate who wants to cancel her subscription to the times.

I just commented that the only way to tackle wealth inequality is to reduce executive pay, and that if one also tackling the glass ceiling as well, one has to hire women and pay them less than the men they replace.

Bonus point, one person took the ineffable position that

"to save our democracy, the Times must succeed". I think there is a huge essay of inferences one can draw from that comment.

[poloniusium]

I'm pretty sure the NYT failing would be a net gain for our democracy.

[VG Zaytsev]

You should have encouraged her to cancel her subscription.

It's a win-win. She'd be better of without the daily propaganda and it would incrementally hasten the demise of the times.

[Coeus]

Check this shit out:

I have no allegiance to Abramson, don't know her, don't know for sure what to think about her or her tenure at the Times. Yet the depression I feel about her ugly departure stems from a larger sense of futility regarding what many refer to as "the glass cliff." It's a description of an increasingly common circumstance: what happens when people who've long been sidelined from power finally get a chance at prominent jobs, but only when the power and possibility of those positions has eroded. See also: Katie Couric and Diane Sawyer, evening news anchors; Mary Barra, CEO of GM; and Barack Obama, president of the United States. Oh, and: Dean Baquet, the new executive editor of The New York Times.

[poloniusium]

Yes, the power of the Presidency has 'eroded'.

What a moron.

[flye]

I sincerely and humbly apologize on behalf of all straight white men who keep handing down our sloppy seconds to women and minorities and LGBTQs.

[VG Zaytsev]

Don't forget the two-spirited.

[poloniusium]

After I looked at the url of the link, it made more sense.

Remember, New Republic lamented that Obama didn't disband Congress during the shutdown.

Obama eliminating the HoR is acceptable, but the HoR doing something they are constitutionally allowed to do is a failure of democracy.

[poloniusium]

After I looked at the url of the link, it made more sense.

Remember, New Republic lamented that Obama didn't disband Congress during the shutdown.

Obama eliminating the HoR is acceptable, but the HoR doing something they are constitutionally allowed to do is a failure of democracy.

[Virginian]

but only when the power and possibility of those positions has eroded.

Similarly, I read a feminist who was spitting mad about one of the articles talking about the higher education bubble. She straight up said that the only reason this guy was bad mouthing higher education was because women were the majority.

Yeah, totally honey.

[Ted S.]

How to live forever!

Well, not quite. Just don't die from "preventable" causes. The money quote:

Nevertheless, the list of "preventable" deaths above totals 57.23 million deaths a year. That is a pretty amazing statistic when you consider that only 55 million people actually die every year. Are we to assume that all deaths are preventable and some people are dying twice?

Read the whole thing, which includes links to sources.

[jesse.in.mb]

A 10th grade student in Canada has developed an HIV test which could effectively eliminate the testing window.

The current rapid tests look for immune reactions to HIV, and the viral tests can take up to two weeks, but this test would remove the window and allow early intervention, which can reduce or prevent viral latency. Well done Canada.

Obligatory: they took our adult virologists' jerbs!

[Ted S.]

Now if Canada could just punish the people who contaminated the blood supply in the 1980s.

[110 Lean]

DEPT. OF AGRICULTURE ORDERS BALLISTIC BODY ARMOR

[Brandon]

Gotta block the friendly fire from those new SMG's.

[Warty]

Johnny Manziel Is So Damn Obnoxious You Should Love Him

He's an obnoxious little prick, and deeply, deeply annoying, and?this is the key part?very good at football. How fantastic is that? The NFL is so dour and monochromatic that a drunk shithead who has at least some zest for life, the fortitude to hang onto it, and the talent to back all of it up is refreshing.

If he's good, I get to watch the Browns be good, which is awesome. If he sucks, I get to see the Iron Sheik get what's coming to him, which is also awesome.

[John]

What the fuck is wrong with the Browns? First there was the whole "You need to act like a backup because you are one, we love Brian Hoyer". First, if you think Hoyer is any good, you need to be fired as GM. Second, if you don't think Manziel can start, why did you waste a first round draft pick on him?

Then, they close practices. WTF? The whole reason you draft the little bastard is for the buzz

[Warty]

There will be plenty of time for the circus later. And they're not fooling anyone with this Hoyer shit. He's a good player, but come on.

[Ted S.]

Second, if you don't think Manziel can start, why did you waste a first round draft pick on him?

Ted Thompson says hello.

[Pro Libertate]

I've been thinking about Manziel, John. I don't think he's going to succeed in the NFL. I don't think he'll be a total bust, but I'm just not seeing him having great success.

However, I do hope that if he does bust, he goes total Sheen on Cleveland. That would be awesome.

[Palin's Buttplug]

Manzeil has the most talent of any SEC QB since Joe Namath. Yeah, that includes the Mannings.

He might fuck it up but he has awesome QB instincts. Think Fran Tarkenton with a better arm.

[Ted S.]

Joe Namath might be the single most overrated player in the history of the NFL.

[Pro Libertate]

Manziel has more talent than Peyton Manning? Like hell he does.

Heck, Stabler was better than Namath.

[110 Lean]

No. Randy. Moss.

[Pro Libertate]

Well, he was pretty good, when he wanted to be. I agree that he was overrated, but not in the sense that he sucked. Not at the height of his career, anyway.

Receivers as a class are generally overrated. And have a high asshole quotient. Not sure why that is.

[Mt low rider]

Moss didn't play in the SEC...got kicked off Fla or FSU and ended up at Marshall. In his first few years for the Vikings he was arguably the best receiver in the league. As a rookie he had a Monday night game agin the Pack where he had 3 scores and over 200 yards singlehandedly destroying them.

He did get don't give a shititis later on. If he had Jerry Rice's work ethic he'd be GOAT as an NFL receiver.

[Mike M.]

Jesus fucking Christ Weigel, you're an even bigger and more stupid dipshit when it comes to football than you are when it comes to Obama worshipping.

[Mt low rider]

So you have other areas you are stupid in....who'd a thunk it.

[Rich]

It appears however, this program is dividing people and would make for an uncomfortable and possibly unsafe environment for everyone attending or providing the program.

"We are therefore cancelling the Presidential Inauguration."

[Coeus]

An App That Makes It Easy to Pester Your Congress Member

That's why Trippi is working with an internet startup called Countable, which seeks to give citizens a greater voice in national politics. The company's online service, which launches to the public today, gives you a simple and concise overview of the bills your national representatives are debating, and it lets you instantly send emails to these representatives, telling them how you would like them to vote.

[Ted S.]

The legislators can simply use their filters to filter out based on client, and send to the bit bucket all emails coming from Countable.

[Invisible Finger]

A pregnant woman in Sudan is facing a death sentence for refusing to recant her Christian faith.

Why is John McCain silent on this???

[Palin's Buttplug]

Ex UGA head football coach found not guilty on 41 felony counts by Athens jury:

http://www.ajc.com/news/sports.....ase/nfx2X/

GO DAWGS!

[fuck you tulpa]

http://townhall.com/tipsheet/k.....c-n1838128

Judicial Watch Obtains New Documents Showing IRS Targeting Came Directly From Washington D.C.

"FAKE SCANDAL!!!"

[Palin's Buttplug]

"Washington"? That is so vague it is meaningless.

[fuck you tulpa]

http://dailycaller.com/2014/05.....et-groups/

New Emails: Democratic Senator Pressured IRS To Target Groups

The IRS' Washington, D.C. headquarters targeted conservative groups in part due to pressure from Democratic Sen. Carl Levin, according to emails obtained by the watchdog group Judicial Watch and reviewed by The Daily Caller.

[Palin's Buttplug]

Levin? Is that why he is retiring?

[fuck you tulpa]

The new emails, which were first obtained by Judicial Watch, seemingly contradict the Obama administration's earlier claim that the targeting of conservative groups applying for tax-exempt status was carried out exclusively by a few low-level employees in Cincinnati.

http://www.theblaze.com/storie.....dquarters/

[Corning]

Students at the University of St. Thomas in Minnesota won't get to celebrate "Hump Day" with a live camel because somebody worried that might be racist somehow.

Wednesday is Oden's day.

Who is father God of Nazis or something.

[Ted S.]

In many languages, it's midweek:

Mittwoch
Sreda
Keskiviikko

Or Mercury's day.

[Corning]

Pretty sure the prominent language in Minnesota is English.

Or Mercury's day.

Roman's had a tendency to call any God worshiped among non-Romans an incarnation of Mercury.

Mercury is the Xerox of the Roman Pantheon.

[Warty]

Phil Anselmo and Friends

[Slammer]

That's the new one, right? Meet Phil last year at MDF.

Here's a new one from Vader.

[Notorious G.K.C.]

New Republic: minorities hardest hit:

"Even Well-Integrated Schools Treat Black Students Differently

"Sixty years after Brown v. Board, America's classrooms may not be separate, but they're still not equal"

http://www.newrepublic.com/art.....ign=buffer

[WDATPDIM?!]

Clearly, the only solution is to shove crayons up the smarter kids' noses.

[Notorious G.K.C.]

Lee Bright, who is challenging Sen. Graham (R-SC) in a South Carolina primary, discusses the Civil War:

""This was a war," he continued, in which "basically folks in the North decided that ? kind of like a marriage, the South had decided it wanted to separate, and the North said, 'We're not going to separate, and if you want to separate, we're just going to kill you.'"

""That's kind of how that worked out," Bright said, "but that side's never told in our history books because if you, um, Napoleon ? Napoleon, one of my favorite quotes that Napoleon said was that 'history is the agreed-upon fable.'""

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/201.....-to-leave/

[Notorious G.K.C.]

"At that point, technical difficulties with his microphone prevented him from elaborating."

I didn't make that up.

[Calidissident]

Why can so many idiots not let it go? You lost. 150 years ago. Get over it. Way to shoot yourself in the foot, dumbass.

[Grand Moff Serious Man]

But those damn Yankees stole his family's mules and took their slaves away!

[Calidissident]

They confiscated his rightful property, and without compensation no less!

/sarc

[Virginian]

Why can so many idiots not let it go? You lost. 150 years ago. Get over it.

lol change the years and that can apply to the Great Society, the New Deal, the Patriot Act, the EPA, the Federal Reserve.

[VG Zaytsev]

All of those are ongoing departments / programs that can be eliminated.

[paranoid android]

This guy should be on Drunk History.

[Notorious G.K.C.]

Wow, that's an actual program, and it's on YouTube.

The depressing thing is, they seem to cover topics you ordinarily wouldn't see on TV, unless the History Channel has recovered from its Hitler-and-UFO binge.

[Notorious G.K.C.]

So thanks, I may look these guys up.

[paranoid android]

Hey, if the Hitler-and-UFO stuff can keep funding more seasons of Vikings, then I'm all for it.

[Stormy Dragon]

It's a Comedy Central show. They have a comedian research a historical topic, then come on the show, get drunk, and then try to explain what they found out to the audience.

[Notorious G.K.C.]

Drunk for real?

And does "research" mean Wikipedia?

[Stormy Dragon]

Yes, drunk for real, they actually show them getting drunk on the show.

And "research" means they seem to be taking it seriously but limited by the fact they were chosen for their skills as comedians rather than as historians.

[Notorious G.K.C.]

I *thought* it seemed funnier than usual.

[Notorious G.K.C.]

And every barfly in the U.S. is sending his or her resume into Comedy Central.

[Stormy Dragon]

The other funny bit is that they often cut to "scenes" of other people acting out whatever the drunk comedian is saying with their rambling as the soundtrack (e.g. lip syncing any dialogue that the drunk guy has them saying).

[Notorious G.K.C.]

Few people know this, but in Ken Burns' Civil War, Shelby Foote was drunk off his ass half the time. He was just good at hiding it.

[WDATPDIM?!]

Well, that's not totally ridiculous as a capsule description of the ACW.

[Calidissident]

You have high standards for what constitutes "totally ridiculous."

[WDATPDIM?!]

What does he say that's actually wrong (aside from "that side's never told in our history books")?

[poloniusium]

Sounds an awful lot like he's not acknowledging that the whole reason the South wanted a divorce was because they were dedicated to owning human beings.

You've gotta be pretty stupid to make an argument about the immorality of the North's aggression and then not acknowledge that the South's devotion to slavery was the cause of secession.

[WDATPDIM?!]

But he's right that there would not have been a war (at that time, at least) if the southern states had decided not to secede or if the federal government had decided to let them go.

[poloniusium]

As the Dude would say:

He's not wrong, he's just an asshole.

[WDATPDIM?!]

Since he's a politician, it goes without saying that he's an asshole.

[Calidissident]

I must have missed the part where the North committed genocide against Southerners for trying to leave. I also didn't realize that Lincoln fired Fort Sumter at those cannonballs, I assumed it was the other way around. And by "the South," I presume you mean "white Southerners who disproportionately owned slaves" and ignore the 40% of Southerners who were black (almost all slaves) and many whites (such as most of West Virginia and East Tennessee) who didn't support secession.

[Stormy Dragon]

It should also be noted the South didn't seem to care about "states rights" when it was sending the federal government to northern states to recover escaped slaves:

Sheriffs and the posse comitatus

The Fugitive Slave Act of 1850 expressly gave federal marshals the power to summon a posse to apprehend runaway slaves. To many northerners, forced service to recapture slaves felt little different from slavery itself. The posse comitatus was supposed to be the people of the county participating in self-government by enforcing their own laws. Now, federal posse comitatus had been perverted into a weapon that transformed free citizens into the minions of distant slave-owners.

Moreover, the federal standing army was sometimes used as a posse comitatus, under the preposterous fiction that the soldiers were just volunteers who in their capacity as civilians were assisting the federal marshal.

[Virginian]

So one case of federal tyranny justifies the other?

I mean, by that standards Clinton's Waco butchery justifies the illegal torture committed by Bush.

The government usually has a bad guy they're using to justify their illegal actions. For some reason, a consistent and principled refusal by libertarians to grant them that cover is thrown out the window by some when discussing this one historical event.

No one ever tries to justify the crimes committed against the Indians based on the fact that a small minority of Indians committed crimes against white settlers. But the entire Civil War is considered a grand crusade for emancipation, and the heinous actions of the Lincoln regime are minimized or outright ignored.

[Calidissident]

Was that a reply to me or Stormy Dragon? Can't tell with the threading, but it seems like you're responding to him.

In any case, what is the federal tyranny you're referring to? The entire concept of the Civil War? It's motivation? Particular actions taken during it? Reconstruction? I agree with criticisms regarding the North's primary motivation, which wasn't to end slavery. But there's nothing unjust about stopping the secession of states that are trying to protect their "right" to own slaves. This is ignoring the fact that the South started the war by firing on Fort Sumter. Certainly, Lincoln's government did unjust things during the war, such as drafting soldiers or locking up journalists for criticizing him. And both armies at times committed atrocities. I'm not saying he was some sort of saint or that the North was a beacon of righteousness. But to act as if white Southerners were oppressed victims comparable to Indians is just nonsense.

[Winston]

Reconstruction

So what do you think of the Posse Comitatus Act? It was created by Southerners opposed to Reconstruction. Does this prove that opposition to using the military as police and in turn militarized cops racist?

[Calidissident]

Um, no? Fuck off Winston, seriously, what was the point of that stupid comment that has no relevance to the discussion?

[Winston]

Um you're the one who brought up Reconstruction, not me. Do you support it? Do you also support the Posse Comitatus law?

[Virginian]

Particular actions taken during it?

Primarily this.

But there's nothing unjust about stopping the secession of states

You could argue that it was just, but it was certainly illegal. Secession was not something the federal government was empowered to prevent via force of arms.

This is ignoring the fact that the South started the war by firing on Fort Sumter

They had seceded from the Union. Thus Fort Sumter was a foreign fort, threatening the lawful commerce passing through Charleston Harbor.

Remember, the federal government withdrew from every other fort and naval base in the burgeoning CSA. Lincoln deliberately provoked a war at Fort Sumter. The parallels with other warmongering American Presidents are very interesting. Fort Sumter was the first in a long line of actions designed to provoke a war in order to amass more power to the executive.

But to act as if white Southerners were oppressed victims comparable to Indians is just nonsense.

If a majority, or even a sizable minority had been slaveowners, you might have a point. But of course that's not the case. Lincoln's deliberate belligerence reminds me a lot of W circa 2002. Of course Lincoln got more Americans killed then anyone before or since

[Mickey Rat]

"They had seceded from the Union."

That was a legally dubious assertion. There is no Constitutionally proscribed procedure for secession. Why had they done that the federal government was bound to respect and why? They were in legally uncharted waters at best. If South Carolina had not fired on Fort Sumter, they might have reached a negotiated settlement, instead they got the war they were itching for.

[Virginian]

There is no Constitutionally proscribed procedure for secession.

Tenth Amendment. The feds have no authority to prevent secession.

I mean, do you honestly think the men who seceded from the mother country would have written a Constitution prohibiting secession?

[WDATPDIM?!]

If South Carolina had not fired on Fort Sumter, they might have reached a negotiated settlement, instead they got the war they were itching for.

They might have reached a negotiated settlement at numerous points. Both sides fumbled the ball.

[Stormy Dragon]

They had seceded from the Union.

Had they?

[Stormy Dragon]

Don't forget that 60% of the population of the south, on account of being slaves, had no say in the decision to secede. What right did the remaining 40% have to claim to speak for all, particular in a decision expressly design to allow that 40% to continue oppressing the rest?

[Calidissident]

"If a majority, or even a sizable minority had been slaveowners, you might have a point. But of course that's not the case"

I fail to see how the percentage of slaveowners in the South has anything to do with the fact the at no point in history have white Southerners faced comparable oppression to American Indians. And in any case, you're wrong. Just under one-third of white Southern households owned slaves, and in a couple states (including South Carolina), it was almost half. Slaveowning was not something done by just the 1% elite of the South, and there were many who didn't own slaves, but supported it nonetheless.

"Lincoln's deliberate belligerence reminds me a lot of W circa 2002."

Yeah, the South did absolutely nothing belligerent in the run-up to the ACW. It was all Lincoln.

"Of course Lincoln got more Americans killed then anyone before or since"

Lincoln is personally and single-handedly responsible for every death in the Civil War? Really? And I don't see how you can have it both ways by claiming that the CSA was a separate country, and then include Confederate war deaths in that number.

[Calidissident]

I realize this is a really late reply, but on the off chance you reread this thread over the weekend, I'll respond.

Regarding the particular actions part, again I'm not saying everything the Union army or Northern government did was totally cool. But that could be said about any nation in any war, and doesn't mean the Confederacy was in the right, considering they did even worse things (and even when not taking slavery into account IMO).

Your next two paragraphs grant a legitimacy to South Carolina's secession that it did not have. I don't care whether or not it was in line with what the Constitution at the time. No piece of paper legitimizes a secession that completely ignores the will of 60% of the population (and in fact was dedicated at ensuring their continued oppression) and was not reflective entirely of the will of the other 40% either. The only reason black slaves were not US citizens was because of unjust racially-biased laws. Under any moral system of government, they would have been. I have already agreed with you that I don't agree with the Northern motive of opposing secession purely for its own sake. But their impure motives are still far outweighed by the far more vile actions and motives of the Southern and Confederate governments, and the Southern secession isn't somehow legitimized because of that. South Carolina initiated the violence and Lincoln did not force them to do it. They chose to secede to protect slavery, and they chose to attack the fort.

[WDATPDIM?!]

South Carolina initiated the violence and Lincoln did not force them to do it. They chose to secede to protect slavery, and they chose to attack the fort.

I agree with the thrust of your post. But I think you weaken your argument by pulling in the fact that the Secesh fired the first shots. The way things were going, it easily could have been the other way around (e.g., a Federal warship firing on S.C. ships attempting to block the entrance to Charleston harbor). And even after Sumter fell, war was not inevitable.

[Calidissident]

The bottom of my replies was supposed to be first. Threading screwed up the order

[Calidissident]

Wow even that one did not go where I wanted it to. Squirrels!

[WDATPDIM?!]

to act as if white Southerners were oppressed victims comparable to Indians is just nonsense

That's not what the blob said, though. He said, "kind of like a marriage, the South had decided it wanted to separate, ..."

The marriage analogy is facile, but the basic point is correct.

"... and the North said, 'We're not going to separate, and if you want to separate, we're just going to kill you.'"

This is a colorful way of saying that the U.S. government used lethal force to prevent secession. That's essentially what war is, after all--do what we say or we'll start killing.

[Coeus]

AMAZING VIDEO: Cat saves boy from dog attack in Southwest Bakersfield

that cat is a badass.

[Virginian]

Jonah Goldberg covered this is in weekly email. It was brilliant.

[Corning]

http://newyork.cbslocal.com/20.....i-armband/

"Who says you have to be white to be a national socialist?"

The Nazis do.

[jesse.in.mb]

extremism in pursuit of liberty ending buzzfeed links is no vice

[Pro Libertate]

Don't write off Bridgewater. It's the in thing to do, but he has great game tape, and that's not meaningless. And he plays something that looks like the pro game, unlike the Antitebow.

[Pro Libertate]

I thought Ponder was a joke from day one. He did okay at FSU, but he never seemed to know what the heck he was doing. Not a good quality in a QB.