The First Westboro Baptist Counterprotest of the Post-Phelps Era

Demonstration of the week.

When members of the Westboro Baptist Church picketed a Lorde concert in Kansas City, counterprotesters were there to greet them:

KSHB

Via Mother Jones.

Elsewhere in Reason: Scott Shackford's send-off for the late Fred Phelps.

Comments

[General Butt Naked]

Meh.

Protesting a person, organization, or idea that has practically zero public support is a fucking waste of time. And boring to boot.

What they couldn't round enough people for a "child-molesters are terrible" rally?

[Lyle]

I totally agree with you. There are people killing people and yet, trendy protesters are just all about Westboro Baptist Church.

Hating is a fucking liberty for Christ's sake.

[Strapping Young Lad]

Unless you hate the wrong things, you racist privileged cis-scum.

[General Butt Naked]

Yup.

And the worst thing to do with people like the Phelpses is to pay any fucking attention to them.

I imagine that if a year went by and every Phelp's protest was met not with media attention, loud counter-protests, and angry renunciations by passers-by but with deafening silence and indifference, they'd be disbanded and never heard of again. They're nothing more than meatspace trolls.

[soflarider]

Can we not treat Tony and PBplug the same way?

[Notorious G.K.C.]

Numero uno, if you're going to protest, this is a classy way to do it.

Numero two-o, the Phelpses are kind of like Austria, in that if they didn't exist it would be necessary to invent them. Gay activists needed people like the Phelpses to embody their ideas of what all their opponents must be like.

[General Butt Naked]

Not to get all conspirac-y and all, but I'd not be surprised to find out that the Phelp's clan was a giant false flag operation.

They're so comical and cartoonish that they almost have to be an act.

[SusanM]

That's not a particularly out-of-left-field idea though. But I don't think so. It went on for way too long to be anything but real.

@Notorious well, I don't know about "needed", but, yes, they were always spun as being homophobia stripped bare of the usual "love the sinner" cop-outs most christian groups used.

But you could also say that the SoCons "needed" them as and object to say "Hey, at least we're not that bad".

[The Immaculate Trouser]

I'd not be surprised to find out that the Phelp's clan was a giant false flag operation.

Or a false fag operation. False fag.

Did you get it? It's like a play on words, guys.

[SusanM]

ha...ha...ha...

[Eitan]

ah ha ha ha

[SusanM]

That is all kinds of creepy.

[Mike A.]

I thought it was well known that Fred Phelps was a lawyer who basically funded his "church" by winning lawsuits against states and localities that tried to stop him by passing speech-restrictive statutes.

Win some claims, get some damages, get some attorneys fees. All gravy, baby.

The guy's a first amendment hero and probably one of the greatest trolls of all time. So good that he got to go pro!

[Strapping Young Lad]

They do it for the feel good points.

Oh, you hate WBC too? Aren't we such smart tolerant people?

/circlejerk

[Jesse Walker]

Oh, you hate WBC too?

I get the impression that some of you didn't look at the photo.

[Dances-with-Trolls]

Real or snark? You decide.

[General Butt Naked]

Exactly. If it's real it's not a "counterprotest*", it's support.

*looks clunky, gonna go with "counter-protest" from now on

[Francisco d'Anconia]

Exactly. If it's real it's not a "counterprotest*", it's support.

OR, they could be taking the high ground (something not done much anymore) and saying, we disagree with you vehemently, but as we are live and let live kinda folks, we are truly sorry for your loss. The implication being, this is the true Christian philosophy, and youz guyz ain't following it.

[General Butt Naked]

Dude, the high ground above Westboro is everybody* not in westboro. You don't need to give up a nice afternoon and make a big ol' sign for people to know that.

*kiddie diddlers and congress critters exempted, of course.

[Francisco d'Anconia]

I don't necessarily disagree.

But they have deeply offended a shit-ton of people. Can you imagine simply wanting to bury your dead soldier son or daughter with dignity and having these fuckstains showing up and making a mockery of it? I can see how some would want some retribution. And since you can't simply kick the shit out of them, you respond in kind.

[General Butt Naked]

As I said above, these creeps get off on the attention. So any attempt to beat them at their own game just feeds their egos. Hell, even an ass beating would be welcome as they could fill their coffers with your hard-earned money via lawsuit.

What they don't want is to be ignored.

[David Emami]

But they have deeply offended a shit-ton of people. Can you imagine simply wanting to bury your dead soldier son or daughter with dignity and having these fuckstains showing up and making a mockery of it?

I've never understood what they hoped to accomplish by that, other than just getting some attention by pissing people off. What religious point were they trying to make? It would make some warped sense if they were protesting gay peoples' funerals. They'd be vile loathsome scum for doing it, but there would at least be a tiny bit of logical connection between their message and who/what they were protesting. But soldiers' funerals? Funerals of victims of the Sandy Hook elementary school shooting? The one for the girl killed during the Gabrielle Giffords shooting? So, in WBC's "minds", God arranged to have a nine year old fatally shot because gays in the US aren't being executed? For an omniscient, omnipotent being, the WBC's vision of God sure has lousy aim.

It's as if they hold to a twisted religious version of Niven's First Law. "1a: Don't commit sodomy. 1b: Don't stand next to (or within a thousand miles of) someone committing sodomy."

[VicRattlehead]

i love how congress critters and pedophiles are in the same grouping of scum. Ironically these 2 groups share a lot of the same members

[Strapping Young Lad]

I thought they're being ironic/condescending. There's not really enough context to know what's going on.

Until I found the KSHB article.

So they're actually trying to make themselves feel good by implying they're so above saying mean things. So yeah, condescending.

[Lyle]

And you're not thinking Jesse Walker.

[KPres]

I'm going to start heaping praise on the WBC just to piss off the sanctimonious twits that get enraged by them.

Contrarians of the world, unite!

[Cytotoxic]

Boring story. Here's some interesting OT and I think Reason should report on it and give me a h/t.

Venetians have overwhelmingly voted by 89% for independence and organizers claim the online poll had 73% participation from those eligible to vote.

Here's where it gets interesting: The ballot also appointed a committee of ten who immediately declared independence from Italy. Venice may now start withholding taxes from Rome.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/new.....state.html

[BardMetal]

What do you guys think will be easier? For Venice to leave Italy, or for Venice to leave the EU?

[Edwin]

dude, this makes me think the old city-state model is exactly what the world needs. Maybe that's why it existed so frequently for so long. However much control the government in such a state can extert, they'll always be subject to the accountability that local-level government has, and people can always just leave the city/state, especially nowadays.

[Cytotoxic]

As the guy in the article says, small prosperous nations are making a comeback. Dubai, ZEDE in Honduras, and hopefully Venice.

The Italian city-states were wonderful and probably ended the Dark Ages but Venice was especially amazing. It was a true Republic-strong rule of law although I think some of the rulers liked poisoning each other. The one time one of the 'Domos' got big in the head and tried to become a strongman he got thrown out and his face was scratched out of monuments. Fuck Napoleon and Garibaldi.

[Vulgar Madman]

You know who else talked about city-states?

[Bobarian]

White Indian?

That Hercule dude?

[Cytotoxic]

I heard that some people in the Lombardi League (a broader Northern Separatist Alliance) are actually mad at the Rome government for making it harder to get into the Eurozone! But I get the impression that the Venetian separatists want out of Italy and the EU and even NATO.

[Francisco d'Anconia]

And more importantly...can Venetian blinds really see?

(and props to anyone who can tell me whose joke that is without using the interwebz)

[Wasteland Wanderer]

Gallagher?

[Francisco d'Anconia]

nope

[Pl?ya Manhattan.]

I can't even find it using the google.

[Francisco d'Anconia]

Yeah, I couldn't either. It's pretty obscure. By brain files away shit like that. I forget peoples names during their introduction, but I can quote lines from TV shows I saw when I was 10.

[Francisco d'Anconia]

My

[Pl?ya Manhattan.]

My childhood brain worked like that too. I still remember my great-grandparents license plate numbers and my bike lock combo from 3rd grade.

I need that space in my memory for more important shit now...

[EDG reppin' LBC]

Steve Landesberg?

[Francisco d'Anconia]

Good guess, but no.

Hint: late 70s sitcom.

[SusanM]

Steven Wright

[EDG reppin' LBC]

That was my original thought, then I went Landesberg instead.

[Francisco d'Anconia]

It was Ralph Malph from Happy Days.

[jesse.in.mb]

EvH beat you to it.

[Notorious G.K.C.]

Thank you for pointing this out.

[jesse.in.mb]

'twern't nothin'

*doffs had, rides into sunset*

[Notorious G.K.C.]

What is this, Steal Notorious' Stories Weekend?

[Cytotoxic]

No it's 'take them back from Notorious' weekend. I posted news of this referendum on Monday! It's mine!

[VicRattlehead]

I read that Veterans, i was hoping that a bunch of Vets were forming their own country since the one we fought for was so wrongfully stolen from us

[AlmightyJB]

Teaching class to the classless. Probably a waste of their time but I'll give some credit for effort.

[Acosmist]

I found it incredibly strange that some people take the WBC to represent some sort of mainstream SoCon view - I only found that out AFTER I had my actual socon friends on facebook bitching about how they shouldn't be allowed to protest soldiers' funerals. WBC is the only group, anywhere, that supports WBC.

[AlmightyJB]

Yeah, I think that is typical now days. Find some extreme group and hold them up as an example of a "typical" member of whomever they are hating on. It's juvenile really.

[Agammamon]

Coyote Blog has a good post about how nowadays, if you're not following 'maintstream' belief, reporters like to go to your ideological opponents and let *them* describe what you stand for.

[jesse.in.mb]

Yeah, I think that is typical now days. Find some extreme group and hold them up as an example of a "typical" member of whomever they are hating on. It's juvenile really.

Ha. If everyone took you seriously the comments section of every blog would dry up to dust. Except of course for Ted S.'s blog.

[Pl?ya Manhattan.]

Ted S. has a blog? How come he hasn't mentioned it yet?

[jesse.in.mb]

I dunno. Next thing you know Walker will write a book and none of us will be the wiser.

[Palin's Buttplug]

I found it incredibly strange that some people take the WBC to represent some sort of mainstream SoCon view

After softening down the "fags" rhetoric SoCons and WBC are identical.

[Notorious G.K.C.]

Yeah, I hate it when Robert George thanks God for the death of American soldiers.

[Bobarian]

Here to prove that some people are incredibly strange...

Also sad and demented.

[General Butt Naked]

OT:

So I was rounding up some quarters for the car wash a few minutes ago and remembered this scene from one of those "extreme preppers" shows from a few years ago.

The guy would go to the bank, buy a shitload of quarters (~$1k), unwrap them, take out silver quarters, rewrap the rest and then do it again. He seemed like he was finding a bunch of them. Is this a real thing to do, or was it the magic of teevee, because I worked a ton of jobs dealing with cash registers and in all that time I only found 4 silver quarters?

[Heroic Mulatto]

Is this a real thing to do

Yes, but way too many people doing it nowadays, so it's slim pickin's, my friend.

[General Butt Naked]

So it's probably better just to dig around people's yard that won't stop talking about their "preps"?

[Heroic Mulatto]

As annoying as they are, they're probably well-armed. So, negative on that.

[General Butt Naked]

I'd wait until they were out panning for gold, of course.

[LarryA]

Not only are most of the silver coins out of circulation or hoarded, but it's a pretty useless exercise as far as prepping goes.

Yeah, theoretically the silver coins are worth significantly more than face value. But they won't be after the world ends.

Prepper: "A loaf of bread, please."
Clerk: "That'll be $50.00."
Prepper: "Here's a silver dime."
Clerk: "Yo. There's a food shortage. $50.00."
Prepper: "But it's a silver dime."
Clerk: "So?"
Prepper: "So it's worth $50.00."
Clerk: "Bull. It's worth ten cents. Sez so right there."
Prepper: "Well, yeah, legally. But if you melt it down for the silver--"
Clerk: "WTF am I going to do with a lump of silver? Who do you think I am, the Lone Ranger? Bread is $50.00."

[Francisco d'Anconia]

no

[Agammamon]

Prepper: $50 - you want useless fiat money? Its worthless now. It doesn't even make good toilet paper.

ClerK: ? Good point, at least I can barter the silver for something else.

[David Emami]

Yeah, theoretically the silver coins are worth significantly more than face value. But they won't be after the world ends.

In the short term after the world ends, no. Presumably they'd be worth something once society recovers to the point of having a non-barter economy again, however long that takes.

[EDG reppin' LBC]

Hell, come on out to SoCal for a week vacation, and pan for gold. Lots of preppers out there.

[General Butt Naked]

So much of that seems like a waste of time.

If I were that into it, I'd just work overtime and spend the extra money on coins or whatever.

[Pl?ya Manhattan.]

I used to do it when I coin collected as a kid, but I haven't seen one in circulation in more than 25 years.

[General Butt Naked]

Like I said, I found four of them over the years working in restaurants. That's why the scene bugged me; it seemed that if he was finding a bunch in bank rolls, I should have been finding one a week.

They make a totally different sound when tossed into the cash register.

I got a dime as well.

[Pl?ya Manhattan.]

I still find steel pennies every once in a while. By the time I had a restaurant job, it was 90% credit cards at the register...

If this dude is combing through 4000 quarters at a time, it sounds like a lot of work for little payoff. And it is a good way to piss the bank off...

[Pl?ya Manhattan.]

Speaking of restaurants, I might get out my cusineart and make 6 months worth of Lebanese garlic sauce today...

[jesse.in.mb]

I've managed to botch that toom (sp?) recipe twice. Once I overprocessed it and it started getting plasticky and the other time I couldn't get the sauce to hold.

[Pl?ya Manhattan.]

I've never had an issue with it. Puree the garlic, lemon, and salt first, and then drizzle in the oil very slowly over the course of a few minutes.

What processor are you using?

[jesse.in.mb]

A Black&Decker; 10 cup/500 watt one.

[jesse.in.mb]

Actually I need to get it out for the artichoke dip I'm making.

[Pl?ya Manhattan.]

With the wide blades?

[jesse.in.mb]

This is the blade bit.

I'd say they're wide.

[Pl?ya Manhattan.]

correct.

[cmace]

Silver quarters are long gone.

[Acosmist]

Nah. I still find silver coins. Just a few months ago I got a silver dime in change - was worth the entire convenience store transaction in which I got it. Woo free food.

[Agammamon]

Yah know - these 'counte-rprotesters' are still arsehole. Not as big a bunch of arseholse as Phelps' crew but still.

This is all 'look at how much better people we are than they' postering.

If they were truly the bigger man, they would have not shown up at all.

[Holgar]

Class.

[ernieyeball]

Lenny Bruce was right:
If you can take the hot lead enema, then you can cast the first stone.

[ibcbet]

Hating is a fucking liberty for Christ's sake.

[ibcbet]

The implication being, this is the true Christian philosophy, and youz guyz ain't following it.