White House Wants to Borrow As Much As Government Can Spend, Not Negotiating on Debt Ceiling

Borrow, spend, repeat

Reason

The most recent debt ceiling crisis, when the debt ceiling was at somewhere under $17 trillion, led to the mechanism being temporarily suspended, as the US government continues to borrow money to cover its spending. Congress may be on the verge of passing a new spending deal that rolls back some of the sequester's attempts to stymie spending, but the White House isn't interested in talking about the debt ceiling.

From USA Today:

The White House says President Obama has not changed his position: He will not negotiate raising the debt ceiling next year.

White House spokesman Jay Carney said Monday he hopes Republicans will not make demands "when it comes to the full faith and credit of the United States."

Paul Ryan, who helped negotiate the latest spending deal, which passed the House overwhelmingly, claims he wants to keep the door open to extracting concessions on the debt limit when it is unsuspended next year.

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Comments

[Almanian!]

White House spokesman Jay Carney said Monday he hopes Republicans will not make demands "when it comes to the full faith and credit of the United States."

I've decided that since 'murcans - myself included - won't rush DC with torches and pitcforks AK's and AR's in response to absolute SHITE like this from our government, that it all just needs to come crashing down, and it's deserved.

Although "deserve's" got NOTHIN' to do with it...

Fuck these odious pricks and the mongoloid cretins who elected them.

[Almanian!]

And FUCK Paul Ryan and useless TEAM RED, too. Fuckers.

[Jesus H. Christ]

Why would he? Nobody wants to be President when the credit cards are taken away. Leave that for the poor stiff who is dumb enough to get elected when it's all coming to a head. The Republicans are too caught up in their own spending to use any advantage they might have anyway. I don't see any end in sight.

[fish]

But Dana Milbank said that the adults were back in D.C.

[Austrian Anarchy]

Then don't negotiate with the jerk. The Congress is the sole authority on spending limits.

[CE]

This. Just stop overspending the massive cash inflows from predation each year, and don't borrow any more money. Let Obama twist in the wind. Oops, is that expression racist?

[Sevo]

So, does he hold all the cards?

[CE]

"Full faith and credit" of the United States government = continued ability of the government to extract cash from taxpayers/victims/host, without choking it to death.

[The Rt. Hon. Serious Man, Visc]

Remember how some Democrats were actually convinced the government shutdown would mean the destruction of the GOP in the midterms and a loss of control of the House?

Yeah, that was hilarious. I guarantee you they are praying the House Republicans cause another shutdown so they can distract from President Not-My-Fault's Obamacare disaster.

[Jerryskids]

Anybody checked with Gramm, Rudman or Hollings lately to see what they think of their wonderful idea to check the growth of government spending by imposing a debt limit ceiling? Worked about as well as Church coming up with the idea of FISA courts to keep an eye on what our intelligence agencies are up to, didn't it?

It doesn't matter what chains you come up with to bind government, government is only bound by the ethics and morality of those in power - and those most likely to gain power are the ones with the least ethics and morals. It's shitweasels top to bottom.

[Jerryskids]

Also, I think the headline is wrong - they want to spend as much as they can borrow ('more'), not borrow as much as they can spend. 'Borrowing as much as you can spend' sounds like an incredibly stupid challenge to government. There's no limit to what they can spend.

[Episiarch]

So in other words, we do not live under the rule of law, but the rule of man. In fact, we can't live under the rule of law because it's run by humans. So why again do we have the farce and facade that is government? Oh, that's right, to pretend there is rule of law and to provide cover for those who are in power. Wow, government is great.

[Corning]

http://ideas.time.com/2013/12/.....-be/print/

Is Paglia trolling?

After the next inevitable apocalypse, men will be desperately needed again! Oh, sure, there will be the odd gun-toting Amazonian survivalist gal, who can rustle game out of the bush and feed her flock, but most women and children will be expecting men to scrounge for food and water and to defend the home turf.

[Palin's Buttplug]

Is Camille still a lesbian?

Sounds like she was converted to the straight team.

Maybe Marcus (Mrs Michele) Bachmann hypnotized Camille into dick envy with our tax dollars.

[fish]

Maybe Marcus (Mrs Michele) Bachmann hypnotized Camille into dick envy with our tax dollars.

Just when I think you've reached peak stupid you go and out do yourself....well done Ruprecht!

[Palin's Buttplug]

You're an idiot.

The Bachmann's run a Medicaid "Pray the Gay Away" clinic funded by OUR FUCKING TAX DOLLARS! It is a sham front to steal from taxpayers and promote their anti-gay agenda.

Plus - Mrs Michele is a poofter.

I hate to explain shit to the ignorant. But I need to here.

[Derpetologist]

Oh, Tenzing Buttplug, you are the greatest Derpa, for you have climbed all the highest peaks of the Dimalayas.

[Almanian!]

+1 Derpa Guide

[PM]

The Bachmann's run a Medicaid "Pray the Gay Away" clinic funded by OUR FUCKING TAX DOLLARS!

Their state must be flush. Medicaid where I live covers 1 hour of mental health counseling per year. I don't know how the procedure is on that type of thing, but I'd think it takes significantly more than hour to swap sexual orientations. Saying you could get a referral for that in the first place.

[General Butt Naked]

I thought Paglia's whole career was centered upon trolling academics and feminists.

[Palin's Buttplug]

All Presidents are Keynesian during their term(s) and talk future cuts.

I remember when Dumbya passed out $300 checks to every jackass with a pulse. Yet he is a "conservative".

[Sudden]

Yes, because all the resident commentators here routinely defend Bush's fiscal conservative bona fides....

[Sevo]

Palin's Buttplug|12.16.13 @ 7:07PM|#
"I remember when Dumbya passed out $300 checks to every jackass with a pulse. Yet he is a "conservative"."

BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOSH!
Go fuck your daddy.

[Jeff]

boooooooooosh!

You are a one trick retard. And a buttplug.

[Charles Hurst Author]

We shouldn't even be talking about a debt ceiling--we should be talking about how to get back to the ground floor.

We can start with every single benefit to every single illegal alien.
Total elimination followed by a big "too bad" when the illegal makes his asinine cry of racism for not being catered to for entering a country illegally. Then deportation.

We can also reduce entitlements and make it more difficult to claim disability--ie the forty year old who suffers from "anxiety" non specified, with chronic obesity--- in other words inability to handle life. As a former medical provider I can attest this is the case of most, not all, but most of the disabled at 40-50 years old that I used to see. As a matter of fact the idea they and the professional welfare recipient gets better healthcare with no questions asked than one who has a job should be looked into for serious reduction.

Want more Congress? Ok how about no more money to foreign countries who hate our guts. And frankly, I don't care if a tsunami wipes them out as they burn our flag.

And last we could eliminate the permanent pensions for Congress after
passing a law for term limits as service was not supposed to be a
permanent occupation.

So they have all that to choose from and what do they do?

Cut the serviceman's income. We vets will remember that in 2014 and 16.

And we might just cut you.

Charles Hurst. Author of THE SECOND FALL. An offbeat story of Armageddon. And creator of THE RUNNINGWOLF EZINE

[Juice]

We can start with every single benefit to every single illegal alien.

Yeah, cuz that's like, easily a trillion dollars a year. Taking that welfare straight from the mouth of DOD contractors.

[Agammamon]

We can start with every single benefit to every single illegal alien.

Yeah! That'll save, like, 20 million a year!. I mean its not like the few benefits illegals scam are anything but a drop in the ocean of shit our government gives away, paid for by the taxpayer.

I mean, if you'd said 'foreign aid', that at least would be a noticeable sum of money and wouldn't make you look like a knee-jerk racist.

Cut the serviceman's income. We vets will remember that in 2014 and 16

Yeah, how horrible - our servicemembers might not get their annual 5% raises. Oh how the lieutenants will be eating out of garbage cans next year!

[Red Rocks Rockin]

Yeah, how horrible - our servicemembers might not get their annual 5% raises. Oh how the lieutenants will be eating out of garbage cans next year!

If you add in the tax-free bennies that E-4s and above get such as BAH and BAS (not counting the lower ranks who are married, which tends to be a scam in its own right), a first-time staff sergeant takes home more every month than a GS-11.

[PM]

I mean, if you'd said 'foreign aid', that at least would be a noticeable sum of money and wouldn't make you look like a knee-jerk racist.

He actually did, or at least I think that's what he meant by:

Ok how about no more money to foreign countries who hate our guts. And frankly, I don't care if a tsunami wipes them out as they burn our flag.

When all you've got is a hammer, I guess every problem looks like a racist.

[Invisible Finger]

If by "foreign aid" you mean our overseas military bases, then you are talking about 80% of the DoD.

Yes, I consider 80% of the DoD to be functionally equivalent to welfare.

[General Butt Naked]

Well, that would save about $10bn. Only $16,990bn to go.

[Sevo]

General Butt Naked|12.16.13 @ 7:57PM|#
"Well, that would save about $10bn."

Sarc?
Pew says ~12m IAs ( http://washington.cbslocal.com.....7-million/ ). Most prolly aren't paying income tax, but they're paying every other tax.
Outside of school for the kids, what benes can you qualify for without a S/S card?

[General Butt Naked]

I was being generous.

[PM]

Outside of school for the kids, what benes can you qualify for without a S/S card?

SNAP, WIC, low income housing, school breakfast/lunch program, SCHIP and/or Medicaid (for your kids at least), and shit loads of state programs, depending on where you live (states like California and New York, surprisingly enough, have very generous state welfare systems on top of the federal programs and tend to be very relaxed about documentation). TANF excludes illegal immigrants, but what a world it would be if TANF was the fedgov's only welfare program.

Also, being an illegal immigrant is hardly a guarantee you don't have a SS card - or at least a reasonable facsimile.

Also, your link is an estimate of the number of illegal immigrants present in the US, not the amount of money that could be saved by "cutting them off". Fraudulent tax refunds alone amount to over $4 billion.

It is a comparative drop in the bucket, but it's laughably ironic that we routinely argue in favor of cutting much smaller amounts from the budget if for no other reason than it's the right thing to do. FUCK THE WELFARE STATE (but don't pick on the immigrants!)

[Calidissident]

"SNAP, WIC, low income housing, school breakfast/lunch program, SCHIP and/or Medicaid (for your kids at least), and shit loads of state programs, depending on where you live (states like California and New York, surprisingly enough, have very generous state welfare systems on top of the federal programs and tend to be very relaxed about documentation). TANF excludes illegal immigrants, but what a world it would be if TANF was the fedgov's only welfare program."

Legally speaking, illegal immigrants aren't eligible for any of those programs besides school lunch/breakfast,(maybe low-income housing, but I'd have to double check). Their kids are if they were born in the US, since they're citizens. But almost all federal welfare programs forbid even legal immigrants (with a few exceptions) from access for at least five years. Now, I'm sure some still sign up, and that there's fraud, etc. but in the big picture, I don't think there's any evidence that it's some sort of huge problem, or that's is a sign of anything besides generic government incompetence (do you think every native getting welfare is eligible?). Not saying we should be paying it, just putting it in perspective. Is the $4.2 billion figure a net figure that accounts for taxes paid and only counts refundable credits in excess of that, or is it a total figure that doesn't differentiate?

[Calidissident]

Curiously enough, California actually has one of the lowest enrollment rates among eligible people for either food stamps or Medicaid (I can't remember which one), which I find strange.

[Juice]

So how would limiting spending to prevent hitting the debt limit affect the "full faith and credit" and all that shit?

[Juice]

I mean the debt limit is never seen as a limit. No one ever acts like going over the limit is something to avoid well ahead of time.

[SusanM]

On that note, why have one at all. It's become obvious except to the dedicated paste-eating partisans that it's entirely for show.

[Almanian!]

Mmmmmmm - PASTE!

[SusanM]

Ah, you like it white and sticky?

[SusanM]

Sorry! The Devil made me type it... 😉

[Tulpa (LAOL-VA)]

I'm not even sure where they're getting "full faith and credit" from. In the constitution it's only used to refer to states' recognition of other states' deeds and acts. It has absolutely nothing to do with federal debt. The 14th amendment mentions only the "validity of the debt of the United States". In A1S8 there is a bit about Congress having the power to "borrow money on the credit of the United States".

My guess is they just like the sound of the phrase, especially the part about faith.

[PM]

Federal bonds are backed by the "Full faith and credit of the United States", so the argument is that we are going to default on our bonds, screwing our creditors, and wreck the "Full faith and credit of the United States".

Of course, there is absolutely no reason for that to happen as long as we keep making payments to our creditors (which we can afford to do with trillions to spare). The fact that the best argument in favor of accumulating more debt is that we need the money to pay off our old creditors should probably raise alarm bells in people's minds. Sounds like the kind of thing the SEC should be looking into.

[MJGreen]

They should always make a big stink about the debt ceiling every chance they get. The more often it happens, and the more public the event, the more likely people are going to start thinking, "Why does the debt ceiling keep rising? Is there not some point at which the federal government has to stop borrowing?"

[PM]

Nah, what'll happen instead is people will go:

"Why do I keep having to hear about this debt ceiling? Just get rid of the goddamn thing so I don't have to think about it"

[Winston]

Remember the shutdown and the opinion polling? I don't think much good will happen until the public stops supporting politician's logic. The Dems want to increase spending and since Republicans opposing it are obstructionists then increasing spending is doing something so do it!

[Tulpa (LAOL-VA)]

People totally support cutting spending... on those other people's stuff. "Get your govt hands off my Medicare", etc.

[PM]

Something about oxes being gored.

[RishJoMo]

Sounds like typical business to me dude.

http://www.AnonGoes.tk

[Paul.]

So, how many angels are dancing on the head of this pin now?