Obamacare

You Can Keep Your Health Insurance Under Obamacare? Not So Much.

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Obamacare Exchange
U.S. Government

President Obama (in)famously said, "If you like your health care plan, you can keep your health care plan" under the Affordable Care Act. As it turns out, not so much. Hundreds of thousands of Americans, it turns out, are receiving letters telling them that their existing coverage just isn't good enough to satisfy the strict rquirements of the Obamacare law, and that they'll have to sign up for new policies. Those new policies come with new stipulations, and new price tags. Which is to say, it doesn't matter if you like your health care plan, since you probably can't keep it.

From Kaiser Health News:

Health plans are sending hundreds of thousands of cancellation letters to people who buy their own coverage, frustrating some consumers who want to keep what they have and forcing others to buy more costly policies.

The main reason insurers offer is that the policies fall short of what the Affordable Care Act requires starting Jan. 1. Most are ending policies sold after the law passed in March 2010.  At least a few are cancelling plans sold to people with pre-existing medical conditions.

What share of existing plans are getting the heave-ho? It varies, but a lot. "

Florida Blue, for example, is terminating about 300,000 policies, about 80 percent of its individual policies in the state. Kaiser Permanente in California has sent notices to 160,000 people – about half of its individual business in the state.  Insurer Highmark in Pittsburgh is dropping about 20 percent of its individual market customers, while Independence Blue Cross, the major insurer in Philadelphia, is dropping about 45 percent.

In fact, writes, Bob Laszewski, of Health Policy and Strategy Associates, LLC, a health policy consulting firm, the vast majority of individual plans don't make the cut under new requirements, promises to the contrary notwithstanding:

The U.S. individual health insurance market currently totals about 19 million people. Because the Obama administration's regulations on grandfathering existing plans were so stringent about 85% of those, 16 million, are not grandfathered and must comply with Obamacare at their next renewal. The rules are very complex. For example, if you had an individual plan in March of 2010 when the law was passed and you only increased the deductible from $1,000 to $1,500 in the years since, your plan has lost its grandfather status and it will no longer be available to you when it would have renewed in 2014.

These 16 million people are now receiving letters from their carriers saying they are losing their current coverage and must re-enroll in order to avoid a break in coverage and comply with the new health law's benefit mandates––the vast majority by January 1. Most of these will be seeing some pretty big rate increases.

Grandfathered plans are those that existed before March 23, 2010 and "stayed basically the same." They're still subject to tight regulations (though not quite the same as newer plans) and many seem to fall afoul of the "stayed basically the same" requirement. A couple of tweaks, and subscribers get a letter. Along with those letters, and the new policies to which they point customers, are new bills. Again from Kaiser:

Some receiving cancellations say it looks like their costs will go up, despite studies projecting that about half of all enrollees will get income-based subsidies.

Kris Malean, 56, lives outside Seattle, and has a health policy that costs $390 a month with a $2,500 deductible and a $10,000 in potential out-of-pocket costs for such things as doctor visits, drug costs or hospital care.

As a replacement, Regence BlueShield is offering her a plan for $79 more a month with a deductible twice as large as what she pays now, but which limits her potential out-of-pocket costs to $6,250 a year, including the deductible.

"My impression was …there would be a lot more choice, driving some of the rates down," said Malean, who does not believe she is eligible for a subsidy.

Regence spokeswoman Rachelle Cunningham said the new plans offer consumers broader benefits, which "in many cases translate into higher costs."

"The arithmetic is inescapable," said Patrick Johnston, chief executive officer of the California Association of Health Plans. Costs must be spread, so while some consumers will see their premiums drop, others will pay more—"no matter what people in Washington say."

The new and unwilling health plan shoppers are, of course, funneled by their law-mandated letters of cancellation to the health exchanges that seem to be experiencing just a touch of difficulty at the moment. Once there, they'll find in most cases that premiums are rising dramatically, ad that access to doctors and hospitals has been reduced.

Enjoy your affordable care! Hope you "like your health care plan!"

NEXT: White House Takes Responsibility for Made-Up GOP Quote Against President

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  1. Shortcut to the Affordable Care site. Click Apply Now.

  2. all together now, FYTW.

  3. One of my uber-super-duper-mecha-liberal friends just posted this on her Facebook (caught a glimpse just before unpolitic.me did its thang)

    ACA , making single payer make more and more sense everyday. Medicare for all!

    1. Heh, because if government can’t design a website, surely it can be trusted to run the entire healthcare sector.

    2. Yes because we can take care of everyone for less money and no one who currently has good insurance will have to pay for it.

      And of course we won’t mention that medicare is broke or that the entire middle and upper class has private health insurance to supplement medicare.

    3. Right. I’m sure we won’t be paying for it through taxes instead of premiums.

    4. Do these people even understand that Medicare is shit? Really, it’s super shitty. So, super shitty health insurance for all is their goal?

      1. So, super shitty health insurance for all is their goal?

        EQUALITY!

  4. If You Like Your Health Plan, You Probably Shouldn’t Be Able To Keep It
    …But here’s the thing: One of the key reasons that America needed health care reform is that a lot of existing health plans were bad. There are a lot of health plans that Americans shouldn’t be able to keep….

    …If anything, the biggest problem with the ACA is that too many people are getting to keep their existing health plans. Our system of employer-based coverage distorts both the health care and labor markets, which is why health policy wonks left, right and center tend to want to move away from it…

    …”If you like your health plan, you can keep it” was never a reasonable promise; health reform that addressed America’s combination of high cost, middling outcomes and spotty coverage was necessarily going to have to change a lot of people’s health plans. So yes, that statement is proving false ? and it’s a good thing.

    1. It was a lie. But it was a lie that had to be told. The reality is around 70% of the country were happy with their insurance and healthcare. To pay for the uninsured and to get more people on the dole, those people are going necessarily be punished and pay more for less. That is how redistribution works. But you can’t tell the person you are robbing you plan to rob them. So you lie and convince them that you are helping the poor with someone else’ dime.

      For four years the Democrats have put this thing off. Well today is the day that the 70% have to pay up. And the Progs are going to happily tell them fuck off and do their patriotic duty and give up what they have for the collective. We will see how that goes.

    2. But subsidies, wage floors, tax treatments, et al have no distortionary effects.

    3. I’ve been getting increasingly annoyed by ever-higher premiums with ever-decreasing coverage, but I know it’s not the market that’s doing it. It’s the fucking government, which was messing up everything without the abomination that is the ACA. Just wait and see what’s to come!

      A leftwinger at another blog posted a comment about–thought this one was dead–the ACA reducing the deficit.

      1. 48% of the people in this country didn’t vote for Obama and pretty much hate him and the Dems’ guts. About 30% or so are just fucking insane and will take this disaster as an affirmation for the need for more government.

        The question is what about the other 20% who voted for Obama because he is black or they like birth control or they thought Romney was a meany?

        1. 48% of the people in this country didn’t vote for Obama

          More than that.

          1. A whole lot more than that. Considering all the people who didn’t vote, not to mention the people ineligible to vote, and, of course, the people who voted for someone else, it’s a pretty small minority that vote for any president.

        2. I imagine that 20% will vote for Jeb Bush in 2016 when he promises them a puppy.

          1. Well, his son is very handsomely Hispanic, and Jeb does speak the best Spanish of any non-native I’ve ever heard.

            1. Well, his son is very handsomely White-Hispanic

              1. Sure. Short, dark, and Mexican is no way to get ahead in life.

          2. Then say hello to President Jeb Bush. It is the “I just want to feel good and know the President cares about me” voters’ world. We just live in it.

            1. Oi, no more dynasty’s please. I’m already sick of the inevitability of Presidents Hillary and Chelsea Clinton… A 3rd Bush will send me over the edge.

              1. If it had been him in 2000, maybe. He was a good governor, all told. But no way now. Jesus, can we not find some new blood out of 310+ million people?

                1. I hope so. I don’t think he is going to run much less win. I was just making a point about the mushy middle.

                  1. I don’t think he’s running, either. I don’t recall him being all coy and indirect before, and he’s pretty much said he isn’t running.

      2. I wouldn’t be surprised if it does due the penaltax and the crappy exchange policies that I think will cause more people to choose not to be insured.

      3. A leftwinger at another blog posted a comment about–thought this one was dead–the ACA reducing the deficit.

        Sure, once they start the death panels for everyone on CMS who doesn’t comply with the care plan their ACO has for managing them. Skip 2 doctor’s visits because your COPD hasn’t been bothering you? They’ll put you down like a dog caught by PETA.

        1. So, ObamaCarousel was right?

          1. I’ve been party to several strategy sessions on people brainstorming these ACO-style care for CMS. The needle isn’t going to move so much as a quiver. And I say that not as a knock against the intelligence or earnestness of the people working on it. Just that, whether it is polite to say or not, Type II Diabetes and COPD are life-style diseases of, for the most part, people who don’t exercise, smoke, and eat too much. But not because they are stupid and ignorant. Badgering them more is not going to change outcomes.

        2. They’ll put you down like a dog caught by PETA.

          It occurs to me, isn’t PETA’s treatment of animals pretty much the veterinary version of modern liberalism?

          1. Better dead than pets /Peta Representative

    4. Our system of employer-based coverage distorts both the health care and labor markets, which is why health policy wonks left, right and center tend to want to move away from it…

      Except instead of getting people to cancel their employer based coverage and get high-deductible plans, they are forcing insurers to cancel their sensible high-deductible policies, and making employer-based coverage mandatory.

      We WANT people to be on exactly the type of policies that are getting cancelled here. Those policies are the SOLUTION not the problem!

      1. And this is the choice in a nutshell.

        Either limited benefit catastrophic like insurance or “free health care” for everyone.

        One encourages personal responsibility and planning the other tells people they get free shit which, in the end, won’t be free but will be shit.

      2. There is nothing “sensible” about high deductible plans. They are right for some people not right for others. It depends on the person, their health and their tolerance for risk.

        We want people to be able to buy the insurance they feel is best for them. That may or may not be a high deductible plan. It saddens me to see libertarians thinking they know what is “sensible” for everyone. How about we get everyone’s nose out of people’s business?

        1. Actually I can think of no viable argument why one would prefer a Health Care plan with a $10,000 or even $20,000 deductible combined with a Health Savings Account to the sort of Comprehensive Health Care Payment Plans (please don’t call them Insurance, it is an insult to the very idea of Insurance) unless you already had a serious illness (in which case you’d just be using the health plan as a way to get others to pay for your health care for you).

          With a difference in premiums of several hundred dollars a month in most cases simply taking that difference and investing it into your HSA would leave you at virtually 0 risk of EVER paying another dime out of pocket

          Assume the following
          Plan 1 – $20k deductible, 100% coverage after deductible is met, $100 a month premiums

          Plan 2 – $500 deductible, 20% coinsurance up to out of pocket max of $6k, $350 a month premiums

          Assuming annual health expenditures of $1000 for a normal year your total cost each year is…

          Plan 1 – $2200
          Plan 2 – $4900

          Putting the $250 a month difference in premiums into your HSA has reaching $20k in savings in just 6 years.

          Furthermore even if in a worst case scenario year of $20k in expenses the cost of each plan would be…

          Plan 1 – $21200
          Plan 2 – $10700

          It would take a mere 3.5 years to accumulate more than the difference in your HSA

          1. I can think a lot of viable arguments. It just depends on your assumptions about how much money you are going to spend and how much risk you want to assume.

            You like those plans. good. Other people don’t. They know what is better for them than you do. If you think otherwise, then you shouldn’t be a libertarian.

            1. I think the point is that these types of plans make the most sense for most people and therefore they would probably choose them, not that anyone should be forced into them, or their choices restricted.

    5. The article was speaking of people with individual plans that they themselves chose, not their employers.

      These were plans in which 19 million people chose what benefits best suited them, at a price they were willing to pay. Now Congress, in their infinite wisdom, tells them that the plans they chose for themselves are insufficient.

      This evening I was watching Hulu and one of the commercials was for a dental plan from a major health insurance company “Call us and let us put together a plan which best suits you”. With the ACA, Congress has said “Shut up and let us select a plan for you which best suits our needs”

  5. “My impression was ?there would be a lot more choice, driving some of the rates down,

    You fucked up, you trusted them.

    1. I want to shake that person like a pissed off parent and shout, “How could there be more choice??!”

  6. Well color me shocked. Absolutely shocked.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J6_1Pw1xm9U

  7. So more people lost insurance than gained it as a result of Obamacare?

    1. NYT: Obamacare Disproportionately Hurts Poor, Rural Americans
      …As technical failures bedevil the rollout of President Obama’s health care law, evidence is emerging that one of the program’s loftiest goals ? to encourage competition among insurers in an effort to keep costs low ? is falling short for many rural Americans.

      While competition is intense in many populous regions, rural areas and small towns have far fewer carriers offering plans in the law’s online exchanges. Those places, many of them poor, are being asked to choose from some of the highest-priced plans in the 34 states where the federal government is running the health insurance marketplaces, a review by The New York Times has found.

      Of the roughly 2,500 counties served by the federal exchanges, more than half, or 58 percent, have plans offered by just one or two insurance carriers, according to an analysis by The Times of county-level data provided by the Department of Health and Human Services. In about 530 counties, only a single insurer is participating….

      1. This is a good in their eyes, right?

        1. This is a good in their eyes, right?

          Yes. Because those poor rural people don’t show the proper level of dependency like their urban compatriots. Because What’s the Matter with Kansas?

          1. As best I can tell from the #KUboobs hash tags, nothing.

      2. We knew it was coming. In the comments to the article:

        JtLangley Va
        You mean its not working in the poor RED STATES where the governors have blocked its funding ? Go figure but the rest of America is aware of their little scams !
        Oct. 23, 2013 at 11:25 p.m. RECOMMENDED 225

    2. The important part is that the federal government is now far more engaged in your everyday life.

    3. Good point. They are claiming that 500,000 people filed applications.
      These numbers show that an equal number of people had their policies cancelled.

  8. well holy shit, what others – including many here – have been predicting came true. At least we can be smugly happy as the Titanic country slips under the waves.

  9. This is absolutely delicious. Enjoy opening those letters, anyone who voted for this or Obama or one of the Congressidiots who voted for it!

    The best part is they get punished, and then they (hopefully, you never know with these people) get angry, and Obama and the backers of the ACA get punished. We’ll see, I suppose.

    1. Punished how? These are the useful idiots. The pussies that Lenin and Mao had shot out-of-hand – not because they would start a counter-revolution, but just so nobody had to hear their fucking whining.

      1. The Dems can’t shoot people (yet). Obama is no Lenin. He is to Marxists what shreek is to griefer trolls. He skipped the day at community organizer school where they explained to him that you are not supposed to be in charge when the system collapses. The half wit doesn’t understand that you put the useful idiots in charge while you destroy the system so you can then take over and build a new one.

    2. But Obama cares. He cares about me. How could this happen? There is about 30% of the population who are brain dead progs who are of the ilk posting on Kristen’s facebook page referenced above. The other 20 or so percent who either didn’t vote or voted for Obama are totally convinced that Obama is a great guy and cares about them and is nothing but a pragmatic centrist. Those people actually think that Obamacare is not going to fuck them.

      Who knows how they will react. Maybe they will love the progs even more for this. But I think they are going to be pretty angry when they realize that they have been had.

      1. That’s my point. This is an inescapable “fuck you that’s why” to them from the administration and the government. They can’t rationalize this away. Their insurance just got canceled, and the options for replacement are way more expensive. This is like the cable company turning off your cable and saying “pay us double if you want to watch TV with less channels”, except there’s no DirectTV to turn to, after being told their current lineup and price would remain available to them. If they don’t get angry, they are the most servile sheep conceivable.

        1. I totally agree. Most liberals I know are liberal because it feels good, it is culturally easy and it never seems to cost them anything being so. I think those types of liberals are going to be pissed.

          Sure, maybe in a few years after the Republicans fuck things up more and they calm down a bit and the media spends a few years lying and blaming every problem on the Republicans, the progs might make a come back with these people and get them to believe that single payer is the way to go.

          But that isn’t going to help the group of progs currently in office. I think they are screwed and are starting to figure that out. There is no way to spin this or blame it on someone else. They voted for it in 10 and just a month ago called the Republicans terrorists for trying to delay it.

          1. Most liberals I know are liberal because it feels good, it is culturally easy and it never seems to cost them anything being so.

            Yup.

            I think those types of liberals are going to be pissed.

            Doubt it. This is just greedy insurance companies screwing us over so they can make profits for the rich. The only solution is single payer because the government doesn’t waste precious resources on profits for the rich.

            1. No sarcasmic. They are uninformed and shallow. But they are not completely stupid. That is what you guys refuse to understand. The Dems play a great game of dominating the popular culture and hiding the real costs of their policies. Obamacare is one of the few times that they have fucked up and made the costs of their program known and attributable.

              It makes everyone on here feel good to think that we are somehow smarter than everyone else. But it is not true. We just make more of an effort than everyone else and thus are less affected by the fog of media bullshit. Well, a good portion of these people are about to have a reason to start paying attention. That is not going to work out well for the Progs.

              1. We’ll see. I still think most people are going to blame the insurance companies.

              2. Or they’ll excuse the results because of the good intentions.

                1. The progs will. But not everyone who votes Democrat is Tony. It seems like that is the case because every Dem voter who posts on the internet comes from the Tony wing. But a good portion of them are not like that. They are like Episiarch describes below. They vote Dem because it is easy, it makes them feel good and it never costs them anything.

                  Think about it. Look how these people act when it comes to policies that actually affect them like zoning and real school choice. Yeah, they love saying they care about the poor. But lets see some well intentioned Prog politician at the local level change the zoning laws to allow section 8 housing in some rich liberal neighborhood or allow public school choice so some poor person can attend their nice white school with their little snowflakes. That well intentioned prog will be run out on a rail. No amount of “but the evil Republicans and don’t you care” will save them. They may be shallow and uninformed. But they do know how to protect their interests. They wouldn’t be middle class or upper class if they didn’t.

        2. Please. If people were susceptible to changing their opinion due to cognitive dissonance, we’d be fighting over whether our minarchy was hurting your ancap feelings.

          1. There is always a pain point that, once reached, causes even stupid people to reconsider things. The vast majority of TEAM BLUE Obamacare supporters have never, ever felt direct pain from their choices. But here, finally, there will be unmistakable pain that cannot be blamed on TEAM RED or the Tea Party. Sure, the most delusional among them will continue to be delusional. But previously, deciding to be an ACA cheerleader and a TEAM BLUE sheep was all just social signalling and feeling smug. They never had to sacrifice in any way whatsoever. Well, now they do.

            And we’ll see how they react. Remember, these are people who feel smug about helping the poor or downtrodden because they post something on Facebook. They are lazy, self-involved posers who have never actually sacrificed shit in their entire lives. I think you’ll be surprised how they react when they find out that this time, there IS a price, and they are paying it. Oops!

            1. And we’ll see how they react. Remember, these are people who feel smug about helping the poor or downtrodden because they post something on Facebook. They are lazy, self-involved posers who have never actually sacrificed shit in their entire lives. I think you’ll be surprised how they react when they find out that this time, there IS a price, and they are paying it. Oops!

              That is an absolutely dead on description of at least half of the self proclaimed Democrats in the world. Helping the poor is great, just as long as someone else pays for it.

              1. And not only pays for it, but actually does the hands-on helping part too.

            2. I have no hope left. I’ve just decided that people are stupid and want free shit. They are even too stupid to realize they are paying more for their free shit than they would if it wasn’t “free”. I’m just hoping at this point to save enough to buy my kids a spot on the colony ship to any other planet.

              1. Sure they want free shit Brett. That is why medicare and Social Security is so popular. A lot of people who vote get free shit from that. But losing your insurance or seeing your premiums go up for shitty coverage is not getting free shit. Whatever small number of people who actually are getting subsidies and free shit out of this is totally overwhelmed by the number of people who are getting fucked.

                All those middle class people who are getting fucked are not getting any free shit and are not going to happily pay for other people to get free shit. And those people vote.

                1. I hope you’re right, John. This has totally broken my spirit. I just can’t believe even the low info person would buy the shit they are peddling.

      2. The woman I quoted above voted for Jill Stein in 2012. She doesn’t hate Our Lord and Master Obama as much as us, but she has a healthy dislike for him.

        1. I wonder too if the Left finally splits over this. Even among the low sloped forehead crowd, there are a lot like the woman you quote above who are going to want to go full on hard left over this. But there are also a lot who have an almost religious devotion to Obama. The first group is going to call this disaster what it is and demand the Dems fix it by enacting single payer. The second group is so emotionally tied to Obama they will never admit it is a failure. The 2016 Dem primaries are going to be brutal. What do black voters think when some far left populist picks up the standard and appeals to people like your friend and campaigns on what a disaster Obamacare is? What does the media, who probably have more emotionally invested in Obama than anyone do?

          1. My friend has been full hard left her entire life. It’s why she doesn’t irritate me as much as the Obamatrons I know. She’s actually principled.

            1. There are a decent number of Democrats who fit that description. Not a majority but enough to make it hard to win an election. Those people and the Obamatrons are going to be at each others’ throats.

            2. I’m cool with people who have different principles and act on them accordingly. At least those people are consistent.

            3. I can respect someone like Kucinich a hell of a lot more than the “pragmatist” leftists.

          2. Come on, John. The Democrats have no principle other than “tow the lion”. The principled Leftists already vote Green or worse.

            1. No. They vote hard left. They used to vote for Nader and before that Mario Cuomo or Ted Kennedy. They only stopped because Obama and the white guilt of voting for a black President papered over all of that. The Democrats hate each others’ guts. People have just forgotten that.

        2. So she’s a socialist true believer. That out-of-touch is how the progs view us.

      3. “He cares about me.”

        No. Obama only cares about poor people. Obamacare is all about giving subsidies to low income people (voters) so they can have the same level of medical care that middle and high income people have. Obamacare helps low income people buy a large screen TV and health insurance, in the same month, without making one or the other a priority.

        1. Obama only cares about Obama.

      4. Yep. Most likely they will double-down on stupidity and blame the GOP. And then there’ll be calls that the only reason the system is so fucked is because we don’t have MORE control over it.

        Then comes more subsidies and more insanity.

        1. If that is true, then I would think every liberal Dem would be euphoric right now. The program failed, now they can get more control and be even more loved. But they seem really unhappy and kind of panicked, especially the ones who are facing elections next year. Maybe you guys understand the situation better than they do. But the actual progs haven’t seem to have gotten the memo that Obamacare failing is the best thing that has ever happened to them.

  10. “Kaiser Permanente in California has sent notices to 160,000 people ? about half of its individual business in the state.”

    Nitpick. Kaiser does not sell health insurance. They offer memberships, like a fitness club. Those notices would be to cancel memberships, like saying “You’re just too fugly to be a member here.”

  11. I’m sure Politifact will continue to maintain that this statement is “half true.”

    1. Right after they explain how the real liar here is the Republicans who are pointing it out.

  12. What if I don’t like my plan but can no longer afford to change it?

    1. Befriend a doctor. Pay him cash for his services.

  13. The people that will get fucked are the same people that always get fucked and they didn’t vote for Obama. The leeches will get every dollar spent subsidized and the productive folks will get robbed.

    1. That is not true. Not everyone or even a majority of the people who vote Dem are leeches. It makes you feel good to think that. But it is not true. A good sized minority or even a majority of Dem voters are of the type Episiarch aptly describes above; middle and upper middle class posers who love to lord their tolerance over everyone provided it doesn’t actually cost them anything.

      1. In other words…elitist fucks.

        1. Exactly. Voting Dem is a fashion statement and a way for one group of white people to show their superiority to the rest of the white people.

    2. I wonder how many people are out there who don’t watch the news and don’t pay attention to this crap?

      They are in for a big surprise when they do their income taxes.

      1. I don’t know how it works at other places but our open enrollemtn period is about to start in November for the upcoming year. I expect a lot of howling.

    3. I see the ACA as more of a sunken cost problem, like social security. Young people, with little need for the high-grade health insurance the ACA requires, will overpay. When they get older they’ll want their money back, and more.

      1. But young people are not going to buy the insurance. That is the problem. And everyone wants insurance when they get older Obamacare or no.

      2. We’ll see how many young people will professional qualification bite the apple. After 12 years of public school and 4 years of college, they’ve been trained to bite the apple.

        1. After 12 years of public school and 4 years of college, they’ve been trained to bite the apple still have four more years to go on their parent’s policies.

          FIFY

  14. Yup. If I was still on my awesome fucking high-deductible $60/month plan, it would have been canceled. Thanks Obama!

  15. Someone posted Howard Dean’s comment in the earlier thread. The spin is to blame Republicans for not fully supporting this. It would have succeeded but for Republican obstructionism. Sadly, I think that spin will work for alot of people. Those tea party people hate you so much they sabotaged Obamacare. A huge percentage of the public will buy that.

    1. Then let’s prepare for that debate. How did the TP folks sabotage the ACA?

      1. That will be the myth they tell themselves. Just like they tell themselves that Carter was really turning things around and Reagan came long and took all of the credit. Just like they tell themselves that the white middle class started voting Republican because of dog whistles and the Southern Strategy and racism and not because Prog policies failed them.

        1. When the legend becomes fact, print the legend….I think that’s the quote from The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance.

          When Tom Brokaw and Diane Sawyer support the legend, most people will buy it. I hope I’m wrong this time.

          1. Eventually they might. But not when reality is hitting them in the face. I saw this happen in the late 70s. Liberalism almost died in the late 70s because it finally went to far and actually started harming people in ways even the media couldn’t cover it. It took 30 years and a new generation who grew up after the 70s and thus had no idea how bad it was to rehab liberalism.

            1. That is a good point. I’m old enough to remember gas lines and price controls and things like forced busing. We’ve had a long run where most people are kind of OK with the system. As near as they can tell it’s treated them well with decent schools and college loans, and as you pointed out, they can feel good about themselves in some abstract way.

              Hopefully there will be alot of people like that guy in California that said, yes I support Obama and I want everyone to have health insurance…but not on my dime !

        2. well how many times have I heard that Jimmy Carter got the hostages freed from Iran? And I say “WTF?”

      2. Then let’s prepare for that debate. How did the TP folks sabotage the ACA?

        Ted Cruz’s filibuster causing the government shutdown of course….it was in all the papers.

      3. Raston Bot|10.24.13 @ 4:17PM|#
        “Then let’s prepare for that debate. How did the TP folks sabotage the ACA?”

        Simple:
        1) They didn’t let Him (in His wisdom) pass what he wanted to pass
        2) Wicked rethuglican insurance korporashuns!
        You’re presuming preparation for a rational discussion; not happening.

    2. They put a bunch of outs in the law so that they could get the votes to pass it. Then they blame its failure on anyone who actually used the outs. It’s almost as if they planned it that way, but we all know they aren’t that smart and they certainly don’t plan that far ahead.

  16. http://www.civilization.ca/cmc…..h14e.shtml

    http://www.civilization.ca/cmc…..h15e.shtml

    For your collective – excuse the bad word – reading pleasure.

  17. Obama loses his support from Libs the day they have to pay $100 a month more for a worse plan. Until then, someone else was always paying.

    With Libs, it is all about who pays.

    1. Pulseguy|10.24.13 @ 11:59PM|#
      “Obama loses his support from Libs the day they have to pay $100 a month more for a worse plan.”

      Not sure.
      So far, what I’ve seen is blame the rethuglicans ’cause they didn’t let him pass what he really wanted to!

  18. Screw this shit. In 57 years, I’ve never needed health insurance, I paid my own way. I’m not buying any and definitely not paying any “fine” or unConstitutional tax. I’ve been in a really foul mood for 5 years now, but the ZAP still holds. Don’t start none, there won’t be none.

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