US Officials Increasingly Concerned About Islamic Rebels in Syria, Congressional Gyms Still Open Despite Shutdown, Muslim Brotherhood Supporters Protest at Egyptian Universities: P.M. Links

Credit: U.S. Air Force Photo/Staff Sgt Araceli Alarcon/wikimedia

• U.S. intelligence officials are increasingly concerned that Islamic rebels fighting in Syria could gain a foothold in the region.
• I'm sure you'll be stunned to hear that the gyms used exclusively by members of Congress are open despite the government shutdown.
• Half of Americans think that the private sector would do a better job than the government at keeping healthcare costs down.
• Hundreds of supporters of the Muslim Brotherhood have staged protests against the military-backed government at Egyptian universities.
• A new report from the OECD indicates that American adults are behind adults from other developed nations when it comes to literacy and basic math.
• South Korea's Yonhap News Agency is reporting that North Korea has restarted a nuclear reactor.

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Comments

[Fist of Etiquette]

Half of Americans think that the private sector would do a better job than the government at keeping healthcare costs down.

Didn't they hear? Obamacare exchanges are a marketplace.

[Anonymous Coward]

Why you have all sort of choices, comrade! You can choose between Lenin-brand toilet paper or Stalin-brand toilet paper!

[Tim]

The brands that have wiped out millions...

[Randian filtered me, I WIN!]

Needs more love.

[PD Scott]

Don't squeeze the Brezhnev!

[Mad Scientist]

I demand a squeezably soft Chavez-brand toilet paper!

[PD Scott]

Nyet!

[BakedPenguin]

Here you go.

[Enough About Palin]

" You can choose between Lenin-brand toilet paper or Stalin-brand toilet paper!"

POO TICKETS!

[The Rt. Hon. Serious Man, Visc]

Half of Americans think that the private sector would do a better job than the government at keeping healthcare costs down.

Doesn't look like it based on how the last election went.

[Auric Demonocles]

In the last election, about half of voters voted against the guy who pushed Obamacare. On top of that, there are all the people that didn't feel it was worth it to vote for the guy who implemented Obamacare 0.1, so they didn't vote at all.

[Calidissident]

I don't really see how the election gives us any insight on that. Both guys supported ObamneyCare

[Calidissident]

I meant to add to this "and of course those were the only options" /sarc

[The Rt. Hon. Serious Man, Visc]

Hundreds of supporters of the Muslim Brotherhood have staged protests against the military-backed government at Egyptian universities.

#MuslimRage!

[Fist of Etiquette]

Hundreds of supporters of the Muslim Brotherhood have staged protests against the military-backed government at Egyptian universities.

Commies.

[C. Anacreon]

Wow, hundreds, eh? That sure is compelling. In other news, I went to a football game the other night and there were 70,000 people there.

[Cascadian Ephor Xenocles]

It's worth pointing out that the people at the football game faced a substantially smaller risk of being murdered than the protesters.

[Virginian]

Depends where the game is. Oakland or Philly, for example.

[Fist of Etiquette]

U.S. intelligence officials are increasingly concerned that Islamic rebels fighting in Syria could gain a foothold in the region.

If only we had bombed their enemy, they could have by now.

[Pro Libertate]

U.S. intelligence officials are increasingly concerned that Islamic rebels fighting in Syria could gain a foothold in the region.

Wait, I thought we were arming/funding Islamic rebels in Syria.

[PD Scott]

We're not concerned by them, they're totally chill, we're concerned about the extra Islamicky ones who will jihad from Damascus to Bayonne and back again.

[Pro Libertate]

Good evening. Tonight on 'It's the Mind', we examine the phenomenon of d?j? vu. That strange feeling we sometimes get that we've lived through something before, that what is happening now has already happened. Tonight on 'It's the Mind' we examine the phenomenon of d?j? vu, that strange feeling we sometimes get that we've. . .(looks puzzled for a moment) Anyway, tonight on 'It's the Mind' we examine the phenomenon of d?j? vu, that strange. . . .

[PD Scott]

Damn reruns...

[Pro Libertate]

Good. . .good evening. Tonight on 'It's the Mind' we examine the phenomenon of ddddddddddd?j? vvvvvvvvuu, that extraordinary feeling. . .quite extraordinary (he tails off, goes quiet, the phone rings, he picks it up). No, fine thanks, fine (he rings off, a man comes in on the right and hands him glass of water and leaves). Oh, thank you. That strange feeling we sometimes get that we've lived through something before (phone rings again; he picks it up). No, fine thank you. Fine (he rings off; a man comes in from right and hands him a glass of water; he jumps). Thank you. That strange feeling. . .(phone rings; he answers). No. Fine, thank you. Fine (ring off; a man enters and gives him glass of water). Thank you (he screams with fear). Look, something's happening to me. I - I - um, I think I'd better go and see someone. Goodnight.

Phone rings again. He leaps from desk and runs out of shot. He runs out of building into street and chases after passing milk float and leaps aboard.

[Ted S.]

Do you have something against d?j? vu?

[Boisfeuras]

We're not concerned by them, they're totally chill, we're concerned about the extra Islamicky ones who will jihad from Damascus to Bayonne and back again.

Bayonne, New Jersey or Bayonne, France? Because... wait, not really seeing a downside either way here.

[Brett L]

Remember, our foreign policy is now determined by John Kerry, a man who has never met an issue he can't get behind all sides of.

[Pro Libertate]

People actually voted for him to be president. That would amaze me if not for the current occupant of the White House and the previous one. And others.

[Zeb]

And you have to consider who he was running against. People would have voted for a pile of manure over Bush. I think I might have even voted for Kerry, though I have blocked out my memory of that election and honestly can't recall.

[Pro Libertate]

I voted for some libertarian dude. Like always.

[Cyto]

I voted for some libertarian dude. Like always.

Screw the 1%.... we are the .5%!!

[Homple]

Are we to think The Current President run against Bush? The needle on my irony detector is quivering a point or two off the null peg, but the reading is ambiguous.

Help me out on this.

[Gbob]

You were for Kerry before you were against him.

[PD Scott]

Hey! He has NEVER, to my knowledge, come out against wind-surfing!

Put that in your pipe and smoke it.

[Brett L]

Its a fair cop, guv.

[CatoTheElder]

Yeah, but in wind-surfing he can tack one way and then the other.

Flip-flopping is integral to wind surfing.

[BakedPenguin]

He was for waffling before he was against it.

[waffles]

I can get behind that.

[Fist of Etiquette]

A new report from the OECD indicates that American adults are behind adults from other developed nations when it comes to literacy and basic math.

But we're now number one in fairness and feelings.

[gaijin]

I'd like to see a breakdown of just who took the test in each country. Do you think they adjusted for education, income, age and other factors? Or is our nation of immigrants just a bunch or morons?

[Invisible Finger]

The immigrants are fine. It's those 3rd generation and beyond that are the dumb fucks.

[gaijin]

yes. I was attempting to be all inclusive with the term.

[PapayaSF]

Wanna bet the countries we are being compared to are all small, monocultural, and populated almost exclusively by whites or Asians?

As for immigrants, I disagree. Our first-generation immigrants from rural Mexico may be motivated, but they are not likely to do well on test scores. One reason is that the Mexican education system is in the grip of a giant, corrupt, dysfunctional union.

[CatoTheElder]

The US education system for Mexicans is even worse.

[PapayaSF]

I don't know: in Mexico teaching positions can be sold or handed down to your children.

[Pro Libertate]

So I can buy and sell teachers in Mexico but not land?

[#]

The US always has more variance in these things as well. We have more high performers but also more low performers. It's probably a function of the US having a higher level orracial/ethnic/rural urban cultural and socio-economic diversity.

[Tim]

We smart, nott dumbe.

[Brian D]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tcGQpjCztgA

[Numeromancer]

Damn reruns...

[Zeb]

I think that can probably mostly be put down to the tremendous inconsistency of the public education systems in the US. Most other developed nations are a lot smaller and have a lot more top down control over public education and a lot more consistency.
As it is in many areas, the best Americans are better than the best from other places and the worst Americans are really, really bad.

[Eduard van Haalen]

Don't forget the cram schools.

[C. Anacreon]

But we're now number one in fairness and feelings.

And don't forget self-esteem! We ROCK self-esteem.

[CatoTheElder]

And self-esteem!

[Oso Politico]

Check this out: http://wattsupwiththat.com/201.....ere-claim/

[font_of_stupidity]

Sentio, ego melior sum

[The Rt. Hon. Serious Man, Visc]

New type of salmonella in chicken proves resistant to antibiotics

The salmonella outbreak linked to raw chicken from California involves multiple antibiotic-resistant strains and has a very high hospitalization rate of 42%, a food safety advocate who was briefed by government officials said Tuesday.

"There are seven strains involved in this outbreak," and many of them are antibiotic resistant, said Caroline Smith DeWaal, the food safety director of the Center for Science in the Public Interest in Washington.

DeWaal was briefed by Christopher Braden, director of the division of food-borne illness at the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.

"The outbreak has a far higher hospitalization rate, double the normal rate for salmonella," DeWaal said.

I blame the shutdown.

[Tim]

Can you get this from Salmon?

[BakedPenguin]

Him? I don't think so.

[gaijin]

outbreak linked to raw chicken from California involves multiple antibiotic-resistant strains and has a very high hospitalization rate of 42%

Cook la coque and the salmonella disappears. Wash your hands and it disappears. Do people get treated with antibiotics for food poisoning?

[Brett L]

Wired beat you to it. Although, I'm sure its no surprise to anyone here that the USDA inspected this chicken both in the most recent outbreak AND in a July outbreak by the same chicken supplier.

Now, remind me, was the government shut down in July?

[Pro Libertate]

If it needs to be extended retroactively to make the government "shutdown" relevant to any bad things that happen, yes.

[The Rt. Hon. Serious Man, Visc]

Did you hear how Obama increased the chocolate ration today?

[Pro Libertate]

He's so generous to do that in these trying times.

[BigT]

OK, not the shitdown, but the sequeerster.

[PD Scott]

Obviously they were so concerned over Rethuglican opposition to Affordable Care, the sequester and the looming shutdown that they were unable to efficiently perform their duties. All these illnesses/outbreaks need to be laid at the feet of Ted Cruz, Rand Paul and John Bohner.

[Pro Libertate]

And any hurricanes.

[Brett L]

Speaking of, do you find it strange that only storms that start with K hit the "Chocolate City"? Its enough to make me think that the white, racist Illuminati really do control the weather.

[Pro Libertate]

Of course they do. They operate out of of the bottom of Wakulla Springs. I know, I saw the whole facility when I was a kid on one of those glass-bottomed boats.

[Brett L]

That's why they used the springs for Tarzan and Creature From The Black Lagoon. Back before the Jews ran them out of the movie business.

[Pro Libertate]

Those aren't real Jews, you know. The Illuminati replaced them all back in the 50s.

[Brett L]

And yet they chose to sacrifice Col. Sanders to keep the Pentavirate a secret.

[Pro Libertate]

If by sacrifice you meant apotheosize, you are correct.

[Cytotoxic]

It didn't. Katrina dissipated over the Gulf like a little bitch.

[Brett L]

Karen, you mean.

[paranoid android]

A new report from the OECD indicates that American adults are behind adults from other developed nations when it comes to literacy and basic math

Me fail English? That unpossible!

[Mad Scientist]

I'm sure you'll be stunned to hear that the gyms used exclusively by members of Congress are open despite the government shutdown.

I'm more stunned to learn that the doughy piles of flesh in congress would use a gym at all.

[Sevo]

Hey, gotta look good at those photo-ops!

[Smilin' Joe Fission]

Walking around the machines chatting with other congress critters may not classify as exercise.

[Pro Libertate]

Is the White House Athletic Club in the NEOB still operating?

[hamilton]

Clearly they have access to tanning booths.

[Mad Scientist]

They have to. Vampires can't tolerate sunlight.

[Fist of Etiquette]

...the gyms used exclusively by members of Congress are open despite the government shutdown.

Jeff Flake's abs aren't going to re-elect themselves.

[waffles]

North Korea has restarted a nuclear reactor.
I don't get it. Why is this bad?

[Sevo]

The presumption is that it's used to produce PU for weapons.

[Smilin' Joe Fission]

If that is the case that is bad, but it is a myth that power reactors are used anywhere to produce weapons grade plutonium.

[gaijin]

Does NK have separation facilities? What do they do with their spent fuel?

[PD Scott]

Eat it?

[waffles]

Sell dirty bomb components to Al Queda of course.

[Pro Libertate]

Wait, is that the al Qaeda that attacked the U.S., or the al Qaeda the U.S. is now funding in Syria? Does anyone have a chart for this?

[PD Scott]

Yes. John Kerry keeps it with him at all times so it can't fall into the hands of those traitorous leakers.

And if any of the "good" Al Q turns out to be bad Al Q? Lousy identity thieving bastards!

[Smilin' Joe Fission]

Imagine what terrorists could do on purpose. Suppose they got a Goiania-type source and spread the radioactivity over a whole city - what would happen?

The answer is surprising. Spread out the radioactivity enough and the deaths from radiation illness disappear completely.

People exposed would have a slight increase in the risk of eventually contracting cancer, but there would be no dead bodies at the scene - except those killed by the dynamite. Diluted radiation loses its potency.

I would be far more afraid of just the conventional explosive than any potential radioactive material that would be spread over a large area.

[Smilin' Joe Fission]

Fuck, shoulda previewed. Everything before "I would be far more..." is supposed to be block quoted.

[waffles]

But you think too rationally. The economic damage from a radiation bomb would be gigantic. Even if the radiation is too dilute to be fatal the government would surely close an obscene area around the affected area.

[gaijin]

it's all about the terror

[Cytotoxic]

The cancer risk depends on the elements. Strontium could be bad.

[Smilin' Joe Fission]

It does. But when you get up to highly radioactive elements, good luck with building it and handling the bomb. I assume you are going to get strontium from the used fuel? How do you do that safely?

It would be much less of a hassle for a terrorist to just worry about building a conventional bomb and using that.

[Smilin' Joe Fission]

Spent nuclear fuel contains too many isotopes of plutonium that make it impossible to be used effectively as a weapon.

I think there may have been studies showing that it may be possible to use a heavy water reactor with online refuelling capabilities like a CANDU to produce weapons grade plutonium.

CANDU reactors can be refueled online, but the spent fuel they produce is very low in plutonium. A CANDU reactor could theoretically be used to produce weapons grade plutonium, but again, it would require extensive modification of the fuel cycle. Fuel would have to be ejected more frequently and doing so would reduce the power output of the reactor. Additionally, since the breed ratio of a CANDU under normal operation would not produce enough plutonium to make it a viable weapons reactor, there would need to be some modification of the fuel, likely using some level of enrichment combined with natural or depleted uranium target rods. It could be done, but like the PWR, it wouldn't be especially easy and it would be pretty obvious to the world what you were doing.

Link

[gaijin]

Interestingly most of the US plutonium, which was made at the reactors in SC, did not even use a pressurized water reactor. It was heavy water at low pressure.

[Smilin' Joe Fission]

Nuclear = bad 4ever&always;

[Rhywun]

bad 4ever&always;

Was that 98 Degrees or N-Sync?

[Smilin' Joe Fission]

When you say 98 Degrees, do you mean the coming global average temperature if we don't stop emitting CO2 from the teathuglican darling fuels: coal, natural gas, and gasoline?

/Tony

[BakedPenguin]

Black Eyed Peas.

[EDG reppin' LBC]

I worked art department on a 98 Degrees music video back in 2003. Super nice dudes.

[Invisible Finger]

Are the Japanese going to hire them?

[John]

While the Park police is busy shitting down roads all over America, oddly they haven't gotten around to shutting down the George Washington Parkway in Washington DC. Odd that.

[Banjos]

Your typos are the fucking best.

[Tim]

I missed that.

[Pro Libertate]

I like to think John has a chip in his head that allows someone else to insert creative and neologism-inspiring errors.

[Rhywun]

Now I remember why I stopped reading at work - people look at me funny.

[Ted S.]

Everybody looks at us libertarians funny. 🙁

[Tejicano]

I thought they just averted their gaze while quickly crossing the street. Or is that just me?

[EDG reppin' LBC]

Johns typos are the beast.

[Kaptious Kristen]

I wonder if they still have the traditional speed traps at Maintenance HQ, Spout Run, and Parkway HQ; or if it's like the Autobahn now? I mean, on a Sunday morning of course. No way you can get up to Autobahn speeds on a weekday.

[John]

They do. I have seen them on my motorcycle. The Park Police seem to be full strength.

[Kaptious Kristen]

I was hoping my commute would be much quieter with this supposed "shutdown". Metro is as filled with walking germ factories and Smartphone-gazers as it always was. I don't think a single bureau of the State Dept is shut down - the cafeteria is as busy as always, and I even saw the shitty red carpet rolled out for some douchebag the other day.

[PD Scott]

They're waiting, waiting for the next mind controlled mom looking to crash the barricades?

[The Rt. Hon. Serious Man, Visc]

"Founding Mothers" of Ashekenzai Jews may have been converts rather than natural-born members of the Tribe

About 80 percent of Ashkenazi maternal ancestry comes from Europe, not the Near East, according to a study that suggests a mass conversion of women to Judaism may have occurred in Europe more than 2,000 years ago.

The findings come from studying mitochondrial DNA, which passes from mother to offspring, in about 3,500 people, the authors wrote in a paper in the journal Nature Communications. About 80 percent of the maternal linages of Ashkenazi Jews came from Europe, the scientists found.

The Ashkenazi are the most common Jewish ethnic division. Previous efforts to trace origins of Ashkenazi Jews have been spotty and controversial, the authors wrote. The latest research used a larger database than in previous attempts, allowing them to unravel the entire mitochondrial genomes.
[...]
The four major female founders of the Ashkenazi show roots in Europe 10,000 to 20,000 years ago. So do most of the minor founders, the study found. Only 8 percent of the mitochondrial DNA shows signs of being from the Near East.

Must have been that Shiksappeal.

[The Immaculate Trouser]

There had been some evidence mass conversions, especially of women, to Judaism throughout the Mediterranean in the past, the authors wrote in the study. That resulted in about 6 million citizens, or a tenth of the Roman population, who were Jewish.

Wow, no. A mass phenomena that converts a tenth of your population in a large geographical area being entirely absent (and in fact, contradicted by) the historical record is entirely specious. This seems even more dubious from a historical perspective than the Khazar hypothesis for origins of the Ashkenazi Jewish community.

[Eduard van Haalen]

The Joos took our women!

[The Rt. Hon. Serious Man, Visc]

Hmm, Huffington Post gives soapbox to Naill Ferguson, who lays into noted asshole Paul Krugman

It's a long article with lots of examples of Krugman being wrong, but it is refreshing to see that posted in the faces of all his liberal sycophants.

[Brett L]

Wow. Ferguson has always struck me as one of those guys who liked government and wanted them to do well. That is just a good old-fashioned horse-whipping in the public square.

[The Rt. Hon. Serious Man, Visc]

Krugman is such an insufferable prick that even people who might agree with him on most issues think he's an asshole.

[Warty]

Skygazer
USA needs fiber optic Internet for one and all, vi
4170 Fans
34 minutes ago ( 4:16 PM)
Niall Ferguson: "I know, like, and admire Paul Ryan. For me, the point about him is simple. He is one of only a handful of politicians in Washington who is truly sincere about addressing this country's fiscal crisis."

http://mag.newsweek.com/2012/0.....to-go.html

PWNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNND

[John]

You bastard, you beat me to it.

How about those Browns. They are actually a real team.

[Kaptious Kristen]

Now that my Ma is not around to see them....the fuckers. They actually did let her down one last time (with the 2012-2013 season, which is the last one she saw).

[Brandon]

Dude, it's the Browns. It was just the 2012 season. The Browns season never carries over to the next year. That only happens for teams that make the playoffs.

[Warty]

Not with Weeden at QB again. Just you wait. They'll let you down.

[John]

The will get a QB in the next draft. And Weeden isn't bad. If you ever listened to Mike Lombardy on the Bill Simmons podcast, he is a smart guy. He is actually competent to be a GM.

[hamilton]

This article is teh awesum. Really nicely done. Posting it to Facebook now and waiting for the fireworks.

The comments are exactly what you'd expect from Huffpo, which makes it even more delightful.

[John]

But he likes Paul Ryan. That alone makes all of these facts that Ferguson presents irrelevant to the HuffPO commentators.

[Cytotoxic]

Is it me or is the HP website awful? Bad design, scroll bar doesn't work for some reason.

[Derpetologist]

It's time for another exciting round of spot the hypocrisy! Today's subject is LBJ:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5FMc1mo5y70

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r1rIDmDWSms

[gaijin]

Equality as a result. I'm down with that. I would like to have equal results to Oprah.

[The Rt. Hon. Serious Man, Visc]

Reich: GOP poisoning America with cynicism towards government

An old friend who has been active in politics for more than 30 years tells me he's giving up. "I can't stomach what's going on in Washington anymore," he says. "The hell with all of them. I have better things to do with my life."

My friend is falling exactly into the trap that the extreme right wants all of us to fall into -- such disgust and cynicism that we all give up on politics. Then they're free to take over everything.

Republicans blame the shutdown of Washington and possible default on the nation's debt on the president's "unwillingness to negotiate" over the Affordable Care Act. But that law has already been negotiated. It passed both houses of Congress and was signed into law by the president. It withstood a Supreme Court challenge.

The Act is hardly perfect, but neither was Social Security or Medicare when first enacted. The Constitution allows Congress to amend or delay laws that don't work as well as they were intended, or even to repeal them. But to do any of this requires new legislation -- including a majority of both houses of Congress and a president's signature (or else a vote to override a president's veto).

Our system does not allow one party to delay, amend, or repeal a law of the land by shutting down the rest of the government until its demands are met.

[Pro Libertate]

Gosh, years of corruption, lies, abuse of power, weakening our economy, etc., those have nothing to do with it.

[John]

When the whole thing collapses it will all be because the American people's minds were poisoned by the right wing noise machine. These people would so love to get rid of free speech.

[Pro Libertate]

I don't really care what delusional people think.

[General Butt Naked]

That's fine, but it seems that delusional people run our gigantic, powerful and monolithic government. Shit, we live under a delusion of constitutional restraints now and they throw cancer patients in rape cages for growing weed. What do you think it'll be like after mask really slips?

[Pro Libertate]

Oh, I care that their delusions affect me, but I don't care what their delusions actually are. Does it matter if an insane person kills someone because he thinks the victim is Satan or a Klingon?

[General Butt Naked]

I see your point, but I would hate to be killed, and have people know that I was killed by a disgruntled trekkie.

Gawd, what an indignity.

[PD Scott]

"Yeah, you're going to a con - con-vict!"

[Pro Libertate]

It depends why the Trekkie was disgruntled, I suppose, as far as the humiliation goes. I generally oppose my death, in any event.

[Mad Scientist]

Our system does not allow one party to delay, amend, or repeal a law of the land by shutting down the rest of the government until its demands are met.

So Reich thinks what the repubs are doing is illegal? I'm sure no one will call him on that.

[Pro Libertate]

Well, one mistake he's making is talking about what a party can do. It's the House of Representatives that has the power of the purse, and it most certainly can, in perfect legality, refuse to fund another thing indefinitely.

In other words, he's not even looking at the right entity. The GOP may have control of the House, but it's the constitutional authority of the House that allows this, not anything at all to do with the political parties.

Of course, Reich thinks only the Communist Party should be allowed in government, so it's an understandable mistake.

[waffles]

Yeah that's definitely it. Without GOP leadership I could never find anything wrong with government. If only I had the right people teach me the right way to think about my civic duty I would never know cynicism. The GOP has poisoned my brain and ruined this country for me.

[Rhywun]

The Act is hardly perfect, but neither was Social Security or Medicare when first enacted.

Yes, Obamacare will be perfect just like those others by the time it costs the average American quadruple what it did in the beginning.

[PD Scott]

Seriously, is he implying that SS and medicare are NOW perfect?

[Pro Libertate]

Well, if they were part of a communist plot to slowly but surely destroy the United States, yes, they might be perfect.

[CatoTheElder]

SS started with a 1% tax and a solemn promise that it would never be more than 2%. It is now 6.2%.

Medicare started at 0.35% and is now 1.45%.

I suppose Reich's idea of perfecting a government program is raising its tax rate year after year after year.

[BigT]

The SS rate is now 12.4% - but you only see half in your deduction since your employer pays the other half. It's still ALL your money.

[Brett L]

So we should just put it off a year and fix it, right?

Wait, that isn't what he's arguing?

[califernian]

The Act is hardly perfect, but neither was Social Security or Medicare when first enacted.

GOod god. These programs have gotten WORSE since they were enacted.

[John]

And they did what they were supposed to do out of the box.

[Pro Libertate]

Good point. Let's roll those both back to their original scale and scope.

[Red Rocks Rockin]

Our system does not allow one party to delay, amend, or repeal a law of the land by shutting down the rest of the government until its demands are met.

When in fact, it DOES allow the House to do just that. Power of the purse, baby!

And Reich crying now about people being cynical towards government is especially rich, given that his fellow travelers were all about that in the 60s and early 70s. You can always tell who the elite in society are by who's whining about people criticizing the current power structure.

[Pro Libertate]

Send him a highlighted copy of the Constitution and The Federalist Papers.

[Winston]

You Know Who Else was cynical about government before he came to power?

[CatoTheElder]

Washington. Jefferson. Madison.

Those guys.

[The Immaculate Trouser]

My friend is falling exactly into the trap that the extreme right wants all of us to fall into -- such disgust and cynicism that we all give up on politics. Then they're free to take over everything.

Gee, I wonder if that has anything to do with how the left approaches every political issue and "crisis" with an intensity usually reserved for denouncing fascism.

[Cytotoxic]

An old friend who has been active in politics for more than 30 years tells me he's giving up. "I can't stomach what's going on in Washington anymore," he says. "The hell with all of them. I have better things to do with my life."

That made me smile.

[Pro Libertate]

Indeed, we all have better things to do with our lives. Let's all focus on that instead of that fetid swamp between Maryland and Virginia.

[Homple]

Unfortunately, the creatures in the fetid swamp are focused on determining for you what to do with your life.

[Pro Libertate]

Only because we let them. It's observer-based reality--we only make them real by observing them.

[CatoTheElder]

"The Act is hardly perfect, but neither was Social Security or Medicare when first enacted."

Is Reich tring to defend ObamaCare by arguing that it will be perfected like Social Security and Medicare have been?

"Our system does not allow one party to delay, amend, or repeal a law of the land by shutting down the rest of the government until its demands are met."

It sure does, if that party has a majority in the House.

[lap83]

Don't let the extremists make you experience a normal reaction to grotesque corruption and immorality! Those tricksy devils with their integrity and principles

[BigT]

Reich: GOP inspiring America with cynicism towards government

FIFY

[The Rt. Hon. Serious Man, Visc]

WaPO: Shutdown could cost GOP House

PPP surveyed 24 congressional districts currently held by Republicans. They asked voters to choose between their current representative and a generic Democrat...

The swing was toward Democrats for 23 races (below the red diagonal) and toward the Republican for one race (above the diagonal). The key piece of information is the gray zone. If more than half the points are in that gray zone, then that predicts a swing of 6% and a Democratic takeover. Currently, 17 out of 24 points are in the gray zone.
Individually, the district-by-district swing is quite variable, +4% to -23% (where + indicates a swing toward Republicans). But the average is clear, -10.9+/-1.5% (mean+/-SEM). That predicts a national popular-vote margin of D+12.0%.
Since the election is over a year away, it is hard to predict how this will translate to future seat gain/loss. If the election were held today, Democrats would pick up around 30 seats, giving them control of the chamber. I do not expect this to happen. Many things will happen in the coming 12 months, and the current crisis might be a distant memory. But at this point I do expect Democrats to pick up seats next year, an exception to the midterm rule.

Right, let's totally not control for the Obamacare fiasco.

[Pro Libertate]

I bet they get slaughtered next year in both houses. It's possible we're collectively stupid enough to not get the message (again!), but I'm beginning to suspect we're passing the threshold where reality trumps fantasy.

[John]

http://www.mercurynews.com/nat.....s-bay-area

I think a lot of this kind of reality is going to be hitting over the next few months. Most nice Dem voting suburbanites have no idea they are going to be stuck paying for this. They are not going to be happy when they find out.

[Mad Scientist]

I can just hear it now: B-b-b-but I thought the rich were going to have to pay for it! I'm not rich!

[Invisible Finger]

Please. Their unborn grandchildren are scheduled to pay for it.

[#]

John, The problem with this theory is that the people getting sticker shock are people in the individual market or are the small business owners in the small group plans. This is a minoirty of people.

Most people, including the professional gentry liberal class are either on medicare or are in large group commercial plans which arent directly effected much.

So yes, there will be a lot of hurt, but the bulk of suburbanites arent going to ave this experience, which allows the liberals among them to stick their hands in their ears.

[paranoid android]

I'd take more joy in the prospect of Democrat defeat if it didn't entail Republican victory...

[Pro Libertate]

Yes, well, we know who the losers are in advance.

I will say that at least a significant minority of the Republicans are visibly less suicidal than almost all of the Democrats in politics these days.

[Brett L]

See, my hope is that shutdown kills Boehner, McConnell, and Reid's careers. Pelosi will get the old palace coup if the Dems retake the lower chamber. So I feel like this is a win for the anti-business-as-usual crowd.

[Pro Libertate]

Yes, that's one of the ways I think this helps libertarians is that it may very well destroy some of the establishment idiots.

[Mad Scientist]

I have no doubt there are other idiots ready and willing to take their places.

[T]

It's idiots all the way down.

[Pro Libertate]

At least they'll be new idiots. And maybe even less idiotic, though I'll believe that when I see it in triplicate with millions of eyewitnesses.

[Brett L]

The best correlation with voting for spending in time in office, so I'm only acting in my own stated interest to lower the incumbency return.

[BakedPenguin]

Especially since mid-terms bring out people who actually pay attention.

[gaijin]

Plus, if the electorate is really so stupid as to hand complete control to one party again, then, bring on the chaos

[Ted S.]

They're really expecting the 2014 electorate to be like the 2008 electorate?

[Derpetologist]

Dictator funerals are funny. North Korean dictator funerals are really funny. But know what makes them even funnier?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5h3ATStSgJo

[gaijin]

shouldn't there be a creepy old guy chasing around a young lass or two?

[Derpetologist]

He did plenty of that while he was alive.

[Rich]

Officials say a clandestine CIA program that provides rudimentary training and weapons to U.S.-backed politically moderate insurgents is unlikely to curb the growing strength of extremists among the opposition militias

Obviously we need a clandestine CIA program that provides counter-productive training and self-destructive weapons to extremists among the opposition militias.

[The Rt. Hon. Serious Man, Visc]

Tanzanian government minister calls for a 'Shoot to kill' policy towards elephant poachers

Khamis Kagasheki's proposal for perpetrators of the illicit ivory trade to be executed "on the spot" divided opinion, with some conservationists backing it as a necessary deterrent but others warning that it would lead to an escalation of violence.

There are already signs of an increasing militarisation of Africa's wildlife parks with more than 1,000 rangers having been killed while protecting animals over the past decade, according to the Thin Green Line Foundation. Tanzania is said to have lost half its elephants in the past three years.

"Poachers must be harshly punished because they are merciless people who wantonly kill our wildlife and sometimes wardens," said Kagasheki at the end of an International March for Elephants, which took place in 15 countries to raise awareness of the poaching scourge. "The only way to solve this problem is to execute the killers on the spot."

Anticipating criticism, the natural resources and tourism minister added: "I am very aware that some alleged human rights activists will make an uproar, claiming that poachers have as much rights to be tried in courts as the next person, but let's face it, poachers not only kill wildlife but also usually never hesitate to shoot dead any innocent person standing in their way."

[Derpetologist]

Guy needs to talk to Stossel:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OSPkVoGx5c4

[Sidd Finch]

Guy needs to talk to Stossel

I wouldn't wish that on my worst enemy.

[Omni]

I don't know if you guys saw this yet...it's from a Bay Area paper, the San Jose Mercury news...

http://www.mercurynews.com/nat.....s-bay-area

The money quote from a disgruntled Obamacare supporter after his rates went up..."Of course, I want people to have health care," Vinson said. "I just didn't realize I would be the one who was going to pay for it personally."

[Pro Libertate]

Me, either. Except I did, because I fund all sorts of other stupid, ineffective-if-not-evil programs.

[Rich]

Vinson is probably a Republican plant.

[C. Anacreon]

Vinson is probably a Republican plant.

Ooh, I hope he's a bougainvillea. Those are pretty.

[The Immaculate Trouser]

Feminist skepticism, ladies and gents.

Think Progress reported yesterday that the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops sent a letter urging House Republicans to shut down the government rather than let women use their earned insurance benefits to buy contraception without their employers' permission. So important is it for the Catholic bishops that your employer get veto power over how you spend compensation you paid for with your labor that they are now openly ranking it over?.feeding babies.

Yes, that's right. The government shutdown means that WIC is going to run out of money to feed infants. (At first, it was assumed they would only have enough to last a day, but they're funded through the rest of the month, something the bishops could not have known when they sent the letter.)

Pravda had more sane and objective coverage of Russian Orthodoxy than Amanduh does of the Catholic Church.

[Derpetologist]

Amanderp is sharp as a marble and about as funny as a burning orphanage on Christmas. Oh well- I'm sure she'll make 37 cats very happy someday.

[Eduard van Haalen]

Here is the bishops' letter:

http://www.usccb.org/issues-an.....-09-26.pdf

To sum up: (a) the government orders the Church and its agencies to provide contraception, sterilization, and what they sincerely believe to be abortifacients for their employees, (b) the Church says no, (c) THEREFORE, the Church is obsessed with contraception, sterilization, etc. contrary to what that nice Pope guy said.

As I said before, even the San Bernadino Police Department, which de-prioritizes car theft, would bust a chop shop set up next door to the police station, much less a chop shop set up in the station itself. If the thieves rub the cops' noses in it - "hey, look over here, we're stealing cars!" - or if they tried to force officers to work in the chop shop, then the cops wouldn't have to be obsessed to do something about it.

[Pro Libertate]

The Bishop!

[The Rt. Hon. Serious Man, Visc]

Disney animator draws ire for saying female characters are more difficult to create

[A]ccording to one Disney exec, female characters are harder to animate than male ones due to their having to show a "wide range of emotions" and having to "keep them pretty" in the midst of movement.

The exec, whose foot is probably by now firmly in his mouth, is one Lino Disalvo, Disney's head of animation for film. He lauded the achievements of the animation staff who worked on Frozen to a visiting animation blogger, saying making the film look good was a unique challenge. BECAUSE LADIES.

Historically speaking, animating female characters are really, really difficult, 'cause they have to go through these range of emotions, but they're very, very ? you have to keep them pretty and they're very sensitive to ? you can get them off a model very quickly. So, having a film with two hero female characters was really tough, and having them both in the scene and look very different if they're echoing the same expression; that Elsa looking angry looks different from Anna being angry.

Hey, if Disalvo thinks animating women is hard, he doesn't even want to know how hard it is to be a woman. Boobs, vaginas, etc. Plus we've got all those emotions to express while still remaining pretty. It's exhausting. No wonder we're so moody.

[Cytotoxic]

Boobs, vaginas, etc. Plus we've got all those emotions to express while still remaining pretty. It's exhausting. No wonder we're so moody.

Exactly. That's why you shouldn't vote.

[General Butt Naked]

I sometimes think that Amanda is really a covert MRA agent that writes this stuff to make feminists look bad. I mean, christ, every bad stereotype of a bitchy feminist is represented in spades in every article she writes.

[The Rt. Hon. Serious Man, Visc]

Not Marcotte, Jezebel.

[General Butt Naked]

Oh my god, they're starting to blend together in some sort of perpetually offended borg of stupidity.

Jesus.

[paranoid android]

The writing styles are the giveaway. Amanda is all passive-agressiveness and snark, the kind that makes you go, "I was even agreeing with her on a couple points, but geez, does she have to be such a bitch abbout it?" Whereas Jezzie (all of their writing is practically identical in both form and content, so they might as well be evaluated as if they were one writer) employs the EMPHATIC ALL CAPS and endless parentheticals that call to mind a lunatic raving on a street corner with whom you are afraid to make eye contact for fear they might pull a knife on you.

[The Immaculate Trouser]

Exactly right. Amanduh's writing style is characterized by absurdly long run-on sentences and bitter passive-aggressiveness; Jezebel has lots of CAPS ARE FUNNY RIGHT GUYS writers.

[General Butt Naked]

I've actually seen the "BECAUSE LADIES." thing in the past.

You've got a much more stable hand on your sanity than I to be able to go in like that and analyze this shit at such detail. I couldn't look into the void and ever come back.

[paranoid android]

I keep rereading the quoted section, looking for the part of what this guy said that's supposed to be so objectionable...can't seem to find it...

[Eduard van Haalen]

The part where they said men don't look pretty when they're moving and don't express a wide range of emotions.

Seriously - haven't you watched a man go through the whole range of emotions?

Anticipation: "wait - I think our team might score a touchdown!"

Happiness: "yes - they scored the touchdown and won the game!"

Sadness: "is the ref dumb, or corrupt, or is he just blind? He just threw the game!"

Thirsty: "While you're up, honey, get me a beer."

[Rich]

Boobs and vaginas are *soft*; *nipples* are hard.

Or so I've been told.

[Mad Scientist]

Like pencil erasers!

[PapayaSF]

Cripes, he doesn't "think" animating women is hard, he knows it's hard, because he's a professional animator.

Next up on Jezebel: Women's haircuts cost more than men's because TEH SEXISM.

[Derpetologist]

Of all the things for feminists to complain about, isn't this scraping the bottom of the barrel?

If they really cared about helping women, why aren't they campaigning to legalize prostitution to prevent women from getting locked up or abused by pimps? Or putting an end to female genital mutilation and so-called honor killings? Or pushing to reform welfare policies that encourage single motherhood and all its related social ills?

But oh no, clearly the biggest problem the women of the world is that animators complain about having to make them look pretty.

And the icing on the derp cake is a feminist's reaction to women being portrayed as overly emotional is to throw a hissy fit.

[Cytotoxic]

Rabble is apparently going broke and otherwise falling apart.

http://o.canada.com/news/rabble/

[Ted S.]

Rabble is an idea. It isn't a website, or a corporate structure. It is a dream, a dream of a bold, fearless and independent media, fighting through the spin to give people the facts they won't get in the mainstream media.

I presume they call for the destruction of the CBC since it's probably the largest media outlet in the country?

[Cytotoxic]

Where do you think they hope to get work in the future?

[The Rt. Hon. Serious Man, Visc]

Texas GOP Congressman Obamacare activist Chad Henderson to State of the Union address

Rep. Steve Stockman, R-Texas, has invited Chad Henderson, the man who created a media storm last week by falsely claiming to have registered for Obamacare, to attend the State of the Union address with him. Henderson has reportedly accepted.

In a statement on his website Tuesday, the conservative lawmaker said: "Chad Henderson is ObamaCare personified. He pushed ObamaCare on other people but refused to buy it himself because he would pay more.

"He's practically a Democrat member of Congress. I hope Chad will join me at the State of the Union Address so Obama can point to someone who personifies his policies."
[...]
It was later revealed by Reason magazine writer Peter Suderman that Henderson had not signed up. He subsequently claimed the media did not ask him sufficiently-probing questions and he never misled anyone.

Whether Henderson will accept Stockman's offer and attend the president's State of the Union address in January remains to be seen.

Nicely played.

[General Butt Naked]

I don't even care what Stockman stands for, I'd vote for him just for the trolling efforts alone.

Every week he's got another outlandish dig at the authoritarians.

[John]

For sure. He is a single vote in the House. He can't do much damage. But God his trolling is magnificent.

[General Butt Naked]

I bet he's super popular in his district, too. Hopefully he'll troll well into old age.

[The Immaculate Trouser]

Tyler Cowen is a mouth-breathing redneck who hates immigrants

In my view the open borders advocates are doing the pro-immigration cause a disservice. The notion of fully open borders scares people, it should scare people, and it rubs against their risk-averse tendencies the wrong way. I am glad the United States had open borders when it did, but today there is too much global mobility and the institutions and infrastructure and social welfare policies of the United States are, unlike in 1910, already too geared toward higher per capita incomes than what truly free immigration would bring. Plunking 500 million or a billion poor individuals in the United States most likely would destroy the goose laying the golden eggs.

[Cytotoxic]

Plunking 500 million or a billion poor individuals in the United States most likely would destroy the goose laying the golden eggs.

Just like mass immigration destroyed Canada and Singapore.

[PapayaSF]

Uh, what? When did 500 million immigrate to either place? And Canada has some pretty strict rules about immigration.

[Cytotoxic]

And Canada has some pretty strict rules about immigration.

This is another nativist lie. While Canada does not have open borders or 500 million immigrants (sadly), it is way easier to immigrate here than America.

In Singapore's case there not the mass welfare system nor an easy way to institute one as currently exists in the US.

Since immigrants use welfare less than natives this is irrelevant.

[The Immaculate Trouser]

Since immigrants use welfare less than natives this is irrelevant.

This is not accurate. Immigrants use welfare less than *similarly situated* natives. IOW, if you take a legal Mexican immmigrant and compare him to a native-born US citizen of the same income level, odds are higher that the native-born citizen is on welfare than the citizen. However, the legal Mexican immigrant is still far more likely than a person in the general population to be on welfare simply because of the income strata he is in.

[Sidd Finch]

I've told him this at least twice since he half-read Shikha's half-assed article citing that CATO study. It's pointless.

But he may be correct for Canada, because Canadian immigration is highly selective. Of course he can't wrap his brain around that either, so that's not the source of his statement.

[Cytotoxic]

Even if that's true, doesn't matter because of the well-observed 'displacement' phenomena where the poorer immigrants will push poor natives up the social ladder, so they will get off the welfare.

The money allocated for welfare is being spent on Mexicans or otherwise. Why I should care whether or not he's native I have no idea.

[The Immaculate Trouser]

The "well-observed displacement phenomena" is not universally quanfified: that is to say, it is "well observed" in economic contexts quite different from our own, and will not result without several conditions in the labor force and the economy in general having been met beforehand.

It is true that free trade in labor is always economically beneficial to the participants. All else being equal, any exchange in such a system is beneficial for the macro economy. Suffice it to say, all else is not equal and we currently have a system where (among other things) the government is in effect purchasing more low-end labor through welfare than would otherwise be the case. The results of that are that 1) incentives are such that the import of that good will be an oversupplied relative to a free market, and 2) the money which the government uses to pay for this labor is derived from the body politic, i.e., you and me.

Tyler Cowen, as one of the most well-known libertarian GMU economists, is well aware of this fact.

[Sidd Finch]

the well-observed 'displacement' phenomena where the poorer immigrants will push poor natives up the social ladder,

This idea was first introduced to Reason when some tank body offhandedly suggested it to Shikha. Having no independent thoughts or research ability, this became a mainstay in her "please, US, take wealthy Indians so my family doesn't have to live in that shithole" series.

Actual, real-life, examples are wanting.

[PapayaSF]

It's not a "lie." The US pretty much welcomes millions of illegals, but Canada does not. The mechanism for legal immigration may be easier in Canada, and that's great, but they also show preference for immigrants with money, much more than we do, AFAIK.

[The Immaculate Trouser]

Neither Canada nor Singapore have open borders. In Singapore's case there not the mass welfare system nor an easy way to institute one as currently exists in the US.

[Sidd Finch]

The US has something like 40 million more foreign-born residents than Canada you halfwit.

[Cytotoxic]

Say it with me: 'per-capita'.

[Sidd Finch]

Why does per-capita matter if mass immigration doesn't "destroy the goose that lays the golden egg"?

[Cytotoxic]

I was rebutting a completely different point you JUST made.

[Sidd Finch]

So your answer depends on which argument you're making?

[PapayaSF]

Cowen is totally correct. Open borders is one of the policies that flows from purist libertarian principles, but which is counterproductive in the real world.

[Cytotoxic]

So for future reference, you find freedom 'counterproductive'.

[PapayaSF]

I think having an enforced national border is a net gain, freedom-wise. Otherwise we are flooded with poor welfare recipients who tend to vote against freedom.

[lap83]

It's arguable that the "freedom" to move to another country is akin to the "freedom" to take someone else's money, especially when said country has welfare

[Calidissident]

lap, by the logic, the freedom to have kids, do drugs, or really anything that might result in the acquisition (or at least the increased likelihood of acquisition) of welfare benefits (heck, even the mere freedom to live) is akin to the "freedom" to take someone else's money.

[Pro Libertate]

This is one area of debate where I think Friedman was dead on: Want to make immigration a net benefit rather than a net detriment? Get rid of welfare.

[The Immaculate Trouser]

Exactly.

Universal suffrage, welfare systems, and open borders -- pick any two.

[Lady Bertrum]

The UK is adding residency rules to access the NHS.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-23156403

[Cytotoxic]

Immigration has never, ever been a net detriment. It has only ever been good. It is impossible for it to be bad.

[PapayaSF]

Yeah, look at all the wonderful benefits Muslim immigrants have brought to northern Europe!

[Virginian]

Yeah, look at all the wonderful benefits Muslim immigrants have brought to northern Europe!

Hehe someone I know said to me a couple months ago that the reason Europe has declined is that they killed or drove away millions of Jews and replaced them with millions of Muslims.

[PapayaSF]

The Nazis did end up providing a boost to the US in that way, especially in the sciences and to Hollywood. Though I wish the Frankfurt School types hadn't made it over here.

[PapayaSF]

There's an awful lot of crime, disease, expense, and social disruption hidden in your word "net." Allowing some immigration, but without the many downsides of open borders, requires a secure border and some rules.

[Calidissident]

What is the proof behind that statement? There haven't been all that many states with truly open or near open borders in history. The US was pretty darn close to it for the first 150 years of its existence. What other examples are out there to prove your assertion?

[The Immaculate Trouser]

I will glibly note that open borders doesn't seem to have worked out too great for the native Hawaiians, indigenous Americans, or Africans.

More substantially, there have been many contexts where states ahve been more open to immigration, or maintained a de facto open borders policy. There are several migrations which were welcomed by both the Roman and Chinese empires which proved to be a severe undoing. From an economic perspective, many of the countries within the EU (the EU is a free economic and open borders zone) have had a much worse experience with immigration than the US historically had, largely on account of maintaining a welfare state which competes with businesses in "purchasing" immigrant labor. ~60 percent of Sweden's welfare budget goes towards its immigrant population and similar statistics can be found all over Europe.

There is sufficient practical sense and understanding of immigration in closed systems to extrapolate to a situation where a welfare state offers immigrants the chance to get on a plane and make more money by sitting around than they will ever make in their home countries.

[Calidissident]

"I will glibly note that open borders doesn't seem to have worked out too great for the native Hawaiians, indigenous Americans, or Africans."

With the possible exception of Hawaii (and even then, while there were negative consequences for Native Hawaiians of that time, their descendents are IMO far more prosperous than they otherwise would have been - not that that justifies the actions taken in the 1890s), I wouldn't describe any of those scenarios as "open borders." Colonization and invasion is far from the synonymous with immigration. The "immigrants" were setting up a new society (and in most cases eradicating the old one), not moving into or assimilating into native society. How exactly were the Native Americans or Africans supposed to enforce closed borders policies, if they wanted to? If we're sticking with this analogy, many tribes did. I would say that the ones who accepted European colonization probably had better end results than the ones who futilely tried to resist. In any case, I don't think any of those examples are very good comparisons to 2013 America.

[Calidissident]

That last sentence is also true of Rome and China, though I'll comment on those too. Again, enforcing a closed borders policy in such large empires, especially in those days, wasn't particularly feasible. There were constant raids and invasions in other times (especially in China), some of which resulted in conquest (Mongols, Manchus). In the Roman case, it is my opinion that internal factors were far more responsible for the collapse than external ones. Secondly, Roman decisions on that front were largely driven by reality. In a lot of cases, accepting one of the Germanic tribes into the empire came after the tribe had already broken through the border and invaded, and/or was allowed on the condition that the tribe serve as much needed allies. Often times, the large scale migration of Germanic tribes was caused by aggression of other tribes, especially the Huns. The Romans couldn't really stop all those people if they wanted to, and shunning potential allies against the Huns probably wouldn't have been a smart move. I feel like you're using the correlation as causation fallacy - I'm just not seeing how the Romans realistically could have acted avoided collapse by trying to keep outsiders out at all costs, a policy that would have (and in many cases did) fail ...

[Calidissident]

And once again, I don't think the comparison between the migration of The Visigoths into the Roman Empire or Mongolian tribes into China is a good comparison to modern immigration into the USA. I mean, if you're going to argue that the USA today is too different from the USA of 100 years ago to have the same immigration policy, I don't see how you can possibly think any of the examples you cited are not far worse comparisons.

[The Immaculate Trouser]

I did note that I was being glib, there -- though in principle all of my examples establish that there could easily be disastrous political ramifications as a result of demographic displacement. (Not that I think most of those are applicable in a policy debate about *increasing* immigration under a controlled system, but they are worth considering in an open borders scenario.)

The EU example strikes me as apropos, as the Euro states are more like the US in economic structure and political benefits than the US of today is to the US of the past.

[Calidissident]

"~60 percent of Sweden's welfare budget goes towards its immigrant population and similar statistics can be found all over Europe."

Yeah, I'm calling bullshit on that one. This is a study from 2011 that shows that the ratio of proportions of people receiving any form of welfare between immigrants and natives is only slightly over 1 in Sweden, and in most countries in Europe is under 1. Given that less than 15% of Sweden's population are immigrants, I'm seriously doubting that 60% figure.

http://ftp.iza.org/dp5515.pdf

"There is sufficient practical sense and understanding of immigration in closed systems to extrapolate to a situation where a welfare state offers immigrants the chance to get on a plane and make more money by sitting around than they will ever make in their home countries."

I don't disagree that I would support further limiting immigrant eligibility for welfare as a part of opening the borders ...

[The Immaculate Trouser]

You're misreading that study. The study calculates percentage of population group supported in some way by government funds, not proportion of funds utilized by population groups. In point of fact, most immigrants in Europe supported by government funds receive much more than natives who are supported by government funds, as reflected in the OECD data on the subject. Sweden is the high-water mark (in 2011 the average immigrant welfare recipient received 10.2 times more from the government than the average Swedish welfare recipient), and the OECD average is 1.7 (though restricting to the EU and excluding the US, the average is much higher).

[Calidissident]

Source?

[Sidd Finch]

http://stats.oecd.org/Index.aspx?DatasetCode=MIG

[Calidissident]

... That said, the US welfare system hardly offers some sort of workless paradise to immigrants. There's a five year waiting period for most programs. You can get benefits for native born children, but that's true whether the parents are legal or illegal - and if you think we can't get rid of the welfare state, or at least strengthen requirements for immigrants, good luck trying to repeal the 14th amendment, and good luck pissing away billions more on border security programs that won't work, and a bureaucracy that can't keep track of when visas expire. And even according to the anti-immigration CIS, 95% of immigrant households receiving welfare have at least one person working.

I simply haven't seen any sort of evidence of a significant net negative economic effect - the vast majority of studies I've seen seem to indicate that even after accounting for welfare spending, immigration is a net positive, or at the very least, net neutral - and certainly not one big enough to justify the sort of restrictions and security measures favored by opponents of immigration. There are a lot of government policies I could think of that could lower welfare spending, but I'm pretty sure libertarians wouldn't be supportive of them just because of that one potential benefit.

[The Immaculate Trouser]

I simply haven't seen any sort of evidence of a significant net negative economic effect

I haven't contended a net negative economic effect and I would agree with your statement vis a vis conclusions of economic studies. I contend that there are often negative impacts on government finances (depending on how far along the social democracy scale a governing unit finds itself), and that there can be negative non-economic impacts on things like political stability. (Crime is another non-economic area where there can be impacts, but I didn't want to make the discussion broader than it already is).

My intent is not to criticize increased immigration (which I favor), but to criticize the way in which it is being handled as well as the absurd ideological position in favor of open borders under the current circumstances.

[Sidd Finch]

The US was pretty darn close to it for the first 150 years of its existence.

From the MR comments:

Dave Barnes October 7, 2013 at 2:58 pm

I see that I was unclear in my writing. Re-write time. I welcome all immigrants who abide by the same IMMIGRATION rules that my ancestors did when they got off the boat in 1752.

Reply

Careless October 7, 2013 at 4:23 pm

So whites only, and shoot anyone who complains about taking their land?

[Heroic Mulatto]

Ah, Columbus Day!

[Sidd Finch]

Open Borders!

[cavalier973]

That is my experience now that I've moved to Iowa. All those immigrants from Chicago are just ruining the state.

[cavalier973]

Stop immigration, not welfare!

[The Rt. Hon. Serious Man, Visc]

Well, tomorrow's new South Park will be a satire on the George Zimmerman trial and the movie World War Z.

Sounds like it has a lot of potential.

[The Immaculate Trouser]

Economics and Business correspondent... oy

David Keohane at FT Alphaville delivers the first bit of reassuring news about the debt ceiling that I've seen?American government debt does not include what are called "cross default" clauses[...]

Now, again, I don't want to put people's minds too much at ease. The sequestration experience has been, to me, sobering. The fact that the damage to the economy is "only" things like thousands of kids losing their place in preschool programs and a gutting of America's long-term scientific research has been widely interpreted as showing that actually it's totally fine. That seems to me to be too low a bar for non-disaster. The situation Keohane is describing still strikes me as pretty epically disastrous?just a little less cataclysmic than I'd thought previously.

Hey idiot, your job has nothing to do with putting peoples' minds at ease or not; it is to report on events accurately. How the hell do you have a job reporting on government debt when you happily admit that you don't know the first thing about government debt?

[Derpetologist]

If government stewardship leads to scientific progress, why wasn't the Soviet Union inventing everything instead of reverse-engineering almost everything?

Is there even the slightest possibility SadBeard has given this a moment's thought?

[Cytotoxic]

To be fair, the USSR did some interesting work in a few areas such as bacteriophages but they could never get it translated past basic.

[Ken Shultz]

"Half of Americans think that the private sector would do a better job than the government at keeping healthcare costs down."

The other half are of below average intelligence.

[cavalier973]

And the third half of America went to colleges that paid their coaches too much.

[Mike M.]

Ugh, Block Yomomma is officially going to pick Janet "Bernanke on steroids" Yellen to be the new Fed chair.

All our lefties from Chony Krugnuts to Shrieking Idiot Weigel are creaming their jeans right now.

[CatoTheElder]

You mean Janet "Negative Interest Rates" Yellen is going to replace Helicopter Ben?

Happy days are here again!

[Alien Invader]

A new report from the OECD indicates that American adults are behind adults from other developed nations when it comes to literacy and basic math.

Yeah, but Americans make more money with their dumbness. Because they are dumber. And foreigners are too smart to know how to make money. Or it's because making money is just dumb.

[cavalier973]

Fortunately, the Kaiser Foundation produced this helpful little cartoon to explain the Affordable Care Act to everyone.

[CatoTheElder]

"Kathleen Sebelius: HealthCare.gov simple, user-friendly"

I'm not creative enough to have made this up!