4 Percent of Americans Arrested in 2011, Nidal Hasan Trying to Get Death Penalty According to Stand-By Defense, Detroit Votes for Mayor: P.M. Links

• 

  20th Century Fox

  1 in 25 Americans were arrested in 2011 according to FBI statistics.

• The trial of Major Nidal Hasan was adjourned early on day two as his "stand-by" defense lawyers requested to be allowed to withdraw, saying Hasan's defense involves trying to get the death penalty.
• A federal judge ruled a Texas man accused of securities fraud could not argue that Bitcoin wasn't money.
• An NYPD officer hung out outside a strip club posing as a hooker to bust men looking to pay for sex.
• New Orleans' mayor says the city doesn't have enough money to comply with a court order requiring reform of the prison system, but it still has $50 million from FEMA to rebuild jails.
• A mayoral primary in Detroit leaves write-in candidate Mike Duggan and Wayne County Sheriff Benny Napoleon facing off against each other in November.
• A new non-profit school in Boston aims to provide "democratic learning" by offering no grades, no attendance, and no "real teaching."
• Researchers say dolphins can remember whistles of dolphins they met twenty years ago, the longest social memory observed in non-humans.
• A small dead shark was found on the subway in Queens.

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Comments

[Fist of Etiquette]

1 in 25 Americans were arrested in 2011 according to FBI statistics.

Let's see if we can get those numbers up, people.

[Bam!]

How many dogs were shot?

[Episiarch]

That's not even nearly enough to criminalize the entire population.

[John]

Just because you criminalize them doesn't mean you arrest them. They can arrest anyone. One in twenty five is enough to put the other 24 on notice.

[SweatingGin]

Wonder how people arrested multiple times skews things. Asking for a friend.

(not really)

[Brett L]

Woohoo! Top 4% baby!

[some guy]

If it's random, such that you have a 4% chance of getting arrested in a given year, then your odds of going 80 years without being arrested are 0.96^80 = ~3.8%.

Good thing it's not completely random.

[Scooby]

Yeah, it's not completely random... white folks have a little better shot at getting through life clean.

[Slammer]

Wonder how many of them were cops?

[Aresen]

I am calling shenanigans here: 4 arrests per 100 people ? 1 in 25 people due to the fact that some people are arrested multiple times.

(The statistic is still appalling, however, as it undoubtedly includes several hundred thousand arrests for consensual "crimes".)

[Mad Scientist]

One of the morons who used to live across the street from me would get arrested almost once a week. I'm thinking his sacrifice saved 51 others.

[Invisible Finger]

You assume police don't want to make arrests. You assume wrong.

Police just go after the low-hanging fruit. When the drug war ends, do you think overall arrests are going to go down?

I believe the drug war will end when police arresting people for other things gets easier.

[Fist of Etiquette]

An NYPD officer hung out outside a strip club posing as a hooker to bust men looking to pay for sex.

Because all crime with victims has been wiped out in the Big Apple.

[Almanian!]

I like how NYPD are now re-enacting "Sout Park" episodes.

[Bobarian]

I believe, in this case, South Park re-enacted something that the NYPD and police forces everywhere have been doing for quite a while; ever since they found out people make money from the world's oldest proffession.

[Almanian!]

The HELL you say??!!!

[EDG reppin' LBC]

The world's oldest profession? Bread making?

[jesse.in.mb]

Did specialization happen before whores?

[EDG reppin' LBC]

It's a punchline Howard Borden delivers on the old Bob Newhart Show.

[Enough About Palin]

Brewer.

[Agammamon]

2nd oldest profession

Someone had to beg for it first.

[Aresen]

But it was only a small "hung out."

[Archduke Trousersenthusiast]

1 in 25 Americans were arrested in 2011 according to FBI statistics.
24 out of 25 Americans got away with something in 2011.

[Sudden]

However, their dogs may not have been so lucky.

[John]

Nidal is trying to get out of the death penalty by providing himself with an incompetent defense that can later be used as a reason to appeal the resulting death penalty.

[Zeb]

You think that's it? I guess I'm not cynical enough. I figured he just wanted to be a martyr or something. Pity he didn't just get killed during his murderous rampage.

[Bobarian]

How's the saying go?

A man who represents himself, has a delusional psychopath for a client?

[John]

Yeah I do. If he just wanted to be a martyr, he would plead guilty and proudly ask for the death penalty. The only reason to go through the farce of a trial is to set up appellate issues. He is basically making it as hard to get a good conviction on him as possible.

[kinnath]

An article said that he tried to plead guilty, but the military court could not accept a guilty plea in a death penalty case.

[kinnath]

He started his opening statement by saying he was the shooter.

[John]

You can only get a conviction to stand up on appeal if the defendant had a competent defense.

[kinnath]

I don't remember the exact words, but he started out by saying that he found he was on the wrong side of the war and that he intended to kill people in US uniforms.

[Pro Libertate]

Well, then, Guantanamo forever it is! Next defendant.

[Enough About Palin]

That's pretty meta. Who knew he was also a hipster?

[Pro Libertate]

Nisus: Next. Crucifixion?

Prisoner #1: Yes.

Nisus: Good.

[Marshall Gill]

Next. Crucifixion?

No, they told me I could go free.

Oh? Well, off you go then.

[Ted S.]

RIP Love Boat

[Slammer]

She won't be making another run.

[Ted S.]

They asked Charo for her thoughts, and she responded, "coochie coochie".

[Archduke Trousersenthusiast]

you sound old.

[Almanian!]

YOu should see Charo's husband

[Enough About Palin]

Called the Pacific Princess when it was on the long-running comedy

The Love Boat was a comedy? No. Fucking. Way.

[Mad Scientist]

If you don't think stewards named Gopher is the height of comedy, there is no saving you.

[Libertymike]

The linked article made a mistake.

The article stated that the show ran from 1977-1983. In fact, it started in the fall of 1976 and ran through the 1983-1984 season.

[Brandon]

This is the most pedantic thing in the history of pedants.

[Aresen]

Besides, even watching one episode made continental drift seem fast-paced.

[Libertymike]

Guilty as charged.

[Pro Libertate]

I have this vague recollection that it started as a TV movie. Is that right? And did they ever go to Fantasy Island for a visit?

[Libertymike]

Yes, there was a movie first. I do not know about the FI visit.

Hey, the show had an awesome theme song.

[Pro Libertate]

Death.
Exciting and new.
Come aboard
And cease to exist.

[Invisible Finger]

Not according to the (in)famous Gary Dotson trial.

http://articles.chicagotribune.....owell-webb

[The Last American Hero]

I keep waiting for them to bring it to the big screen, but in the current, gritty, this-ain't-your-father's Loveboat kind of way that they redo franchises.

[Mad Scientist]

Love Boat meats Poseidon Adventure?

[Aresen]

Transformer Boat.

Michael Bay, Producer/Director

[Agammamon]

A triple-X parody?

[Zeb]

Surely that's been done already.

[db]

The laugh track always ruined my willing suspension of disbelief. Like, where are all these people laughing on the ship? Totally unrealistic.

[Aresen]

That was the passengers, who were suffering from Nigerian Laughing Fever, which they contracted from the cast.

The disease is 14% fatal. Interestingly, 14% was the show's highest ever approval rating.

[JW]

They can never recycle Issac the bartender! Do you hear me? NEVER!

[Pro Libertate]

The part of Isaac will be played by Lucy Liu.

[jesse.in.mb]

Naw you'd need someone like Mo'Nique or Queen Latifah that way you don't lose African American representation on the show and get to add points for woman and person of size.

Lucy Liu as Watson added PoC and be-gina'd to the character.

[JW]

I never said that he couldn't be upgraded.

[Pro Libertate]

I was just kidding. They'll actually get rid of Isaac altogether and replace him with Robert B. Parker's character, Hawk. Still a bartender, but a violent, yet spiritual one.

[Slammer]

Researcher says dolphins can remember whistles of dolphins they met twenty years ago, the longest social memory observed in non-humans

That dolphin was Amanda Marcotte, who thought she heard a whistle at her once, but it was actually whistling at her hot friend.

[Fist of Etiquette]

AND SHE NEVER FORGOT IT.

[Bobarian]

She was the only one who could hear that whistle, for some unknown reason...

arf!

[a better weapon]

+1 blow hole

[Fist of Etiquette]

A mayoral primary in Detroit leaves write-in candidate Mike Duggan and Wayne County Sheriff Benny Napoleon facing off against each other in November.

Why is anyone competing for this job? Can there really be any more bribe money available for the next administration?

[SweatingGin]

Once the bankruptcy is done, the graft hose is getting turned right back on. It'll be a lean, mean, grafting machine.

[some guy]

They'll be grafting overtime to make up for all the graft lost during bankruptcy process.

[Invisible Finger]

There's a chance the winner gets to declare Marshall Law.

[Marshall Gill]

I will be the Law in Detroit? Finally, total dominion over the seething masses!! Oh, you meant marshal law.

[SweatingGin]

The bad news is, we're gonna put your brain in a titanium cyborg body.

First act (getting you there) is going to be a bit rough, too.

[Marshall Gill]

The bad news is, we're gonna put your brain in a titanium cyborg body.

Since I am not getting any younger and don't plan on having any more children, why do you call this news "bad"?

And I want a laser monocle.

[Pro Libertate]

No, he meant Marshall Law. Wilbur Marshall Law.

[db]

No, Martian Law. Sir Phobos, tune 'im up a little!

[Episiarch]

A new non-profit school in Boston aims to provide "democratic learning" by offering no grades, no attendance, and no "real teaching."

Sounds pretty similar to the public schools.

[Brandon]

Come on. Public schools take attendance religiously.

[Episiarch]

True; they have to have lists for the truant officer. But the rest is the same!

[Invisible Finger]

This new school figured out to just mark a random number of students (97, 98, or 99 percent) as "present" daily to collect the money and not waste time going through the exercise. That's efficiency.

[Brett L]

Exactly. That's how they get paid, by counting asses in seats.

[Slammer]

The Damon kids won't be attending?

[Almanian!]

MATT DAMON!

[John]

As long as there is no thinking involved, it should be a prog voter producing machine.

[Fist of Etiquette]

"Okay, look. I know you got a crocodile in spelling, but this has gone too far."

[Episiarch]

"You are now punished. I punish thee."

[Auric Demonocles]

I'm not sure if this is the correct reference, or if it should be Accepted instead.

Do we know if Andy Richter is involved?

[Aresen]

A.S. Neill did this with Summerhill school more than 90 years ago.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Summerhill_School

[Brandon]

A mayoral primary in Detroit leaves write-in candidate Mike Duggan and Wayne County Sheriff Benny Napoleon facing off against each other in November.

Nobody is asking why so many Detroit-ians are able to write in perfect Times New Roman font.

[Almanian!]

You should have seen the ballots written in Wing Dings

[The Last American Hero]

You think that's chili from Lafayette's Coney dog smeared on the ballot?

[Fist of Etiquette]

A small dead shark was found on the subway in Queens.

The borough thought it could cover up the recent sharknado, but they missed something.

[Pro Libertate]

Land Shark.

[db]

"Ummm, flowers, ma'am!"

[Archduke Trousersenthusiast]

repost from late night links

Bass Reeves could well have been one of the greatest lawmen of the Wild West. And some believe was almost certainly the real-life inspiration for the Lone Ranger

[Killazontherun]

That is one impressive 'stache.

[Gozer the Gozerian]

repost response

[Archduke Trousersenthusiast]

+1 archivist

[Dr. Frankenstein]

Also the inspiration for Sheriff Bart.

[Ted S.]

A mayoral primary in Detroit leaves write-in candidate Mike Duggan and Wayne County Sheriff Benny Napoleon facing off against each other in November.

How about just disincorporating the city?

[Almanian!]

That would RUIN the place! RUIN it!

[Bobarian]

How about requiring everyone who is getting a pension from the city to actually live there?

This, also, would RUIN the place!

[Almanian!]

REAL TIME! "Matt Welch, Editor of Reason" on the Wilkow Majority on the Sirius!, enjoying hearing our Preseident "lie". Kick him in the nuts, Matthew!

I love having Sirius on my ctr at work - helps almost as much as skipping work to visit Reason.com...

[Fist of Etiquette]

...saying Hasan's defense involves trying to get the death penalty.

No one wants their stats to go down.

[Archduke Trousersenthusiast]

The rail company involved in the Lac M?gantic train disaster last month has filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection

[John]

If they put automatic pilots on planes, why are they not on trains? Seriously, how the hell did a train ever get designed that didn't have autopilot and some kind of automatic override system that would prevent it from going around curves that fast?

[Brett L]

You would think GPS and the fact that train tracks don't move would have them all running on autopilot except perhaps around stations, although some sort of shutdown if you don't get a beacon seems like also a good idea.

[SweatingGin]

Hacking trains with GPS signal broadcasts (like you do with drones) could be awesome.

I was thinking the other day, it would be simple to encode a max speed in the tracks, but that's easily hackable, too.

[Night Elf Mohawk]

Why couldn't they just use PGP or the like to encrypt and decrypt the speed limit? Would that be easily hackable?

[SweatingGin]

You don't have to send the speed limit. You send three signals that pretend to be GPS satellites (not encrypted), overpowering the real signals. The GPS receiver gets those signals and thinks it is in a different location (with a different speed limit).

[Brett L]

Seems like you could have local markers and/or a check system on your computer. Like I said, tracks are always in exactly the same place. This isn't like taking over the GPS of a boat that could be anywhere within a reasonable triangle.

[some guy]

They have that for trains, it just hasn't been installed yet for all trains and all tracks. I assume it's being phased in based on some cost/benefit analysis.

[a better weapon]

I think its not so much a phased approach as it is some train engineer unions being stronger than others.

[Zeb]

I think you are thinking of the crash in Spain.

[John]

Yes I am

[some guy]

The Canada disaster involved run-away freight cars derailing when they hit a curve too fast too.

[Zeb]

But they were just rolling because someone didn't set enough brakes or something, weren't they?

[db]

The local fire department in responding to a fire on the train, shut off a locomotive that had been idling to provide air pressure for the brakes. Then everyone went off for Miller Time.

[RagingAlbino]

But what about the jobzz!? All the joowwaabz!

Roooaadz!

[Agammamon]

Unions?

Its why diesel locomotives had firemen until a few years ago.

[Robert]

I would trust a mechanical system more than an electronic one. But a simple mechanical means like the early ones for elevators may not be feasible.

[Ted S.]

They have Chapter 11 in Canada?

[Archduke Trousersenthusiast]

it's an American company.

[Almanian!]

heh heh!

[Archduke Trousersenthusiast]

10 rules for managing your penis

[John]

Lengthening surgery, if you really want to know, means "severing the suspensory ligament that holds the penile shaft inside the body". Girth can added by attaching tissue sheets of AlloDerm. What is AlloDerm? "It is cadaver skin that has cells removed, leaving simply collagen". Nice.

Well on that note.

[Bobarian]

2) Do not neglect your penis. I am talking hygiene.

My penis is the cleanest part of my body. It gets a good scrubbing every morning, whether it wants one or not.

4) Do not use your penis to urinate all over the place in public.

Why the hell not, this is the second best thing to do with a penis...

[Brett L]

I would say not more than seven of these apply. And the toaster totally wanted it. I could tell because it was turned on.

[jesse.in.mb]

Number 7 seems oddly wedged in there and doesn't really fit her pattern.

[Slammer]

huh huh huh, you said "wedged in there". huh huh huh

[Episiarch]

While most of her advice is sound, I think I'll manage my penis on my own, thank you very much. Warty, can I have it back now?

[Slammer]

There's an article below that with advice. It's a question from a dude who likes unshaved bush.

Best comment: I like the Brazilian, but unfortunately my missus has the whole of South America.

[Enough About Palin]

My cock is fat and happy just the way it is.

[T]

Truthfully, for a lot of my 20s, it managed me.

[Zeb]

Apparently you didn't study #10 very well.

[T]

She didn't write this article 20 years ago, now did she, smart guy?

[Zeb]

What am I, a calendar?

[Rock Action]

Rats

[Alack]

Rats

[Rock Action]

Thank you for granting me my wish

[Brett L]

In their defense, 10% of Brits never do anything sober.

DigitalSpy tells us that one in ten British couples have not had sober sex in half a year.

[jesse.in.mb]

Wait, 90% of Brits are sober at one time or another? This totally reshapes my image of them.

[Brett L]

I don't think 90% of them are ever sober at the same time. That seems unlikely.

[Boisfeuras]

It just means 90% of them must be having sex with non-Brits.

[Robert]

That was the caricature they allowed to be rerun recently of the Dick Tracy cartoons after removing the Mexican & Oriental dicks. They aired nothing but the drunk British one.

[Marshall Gill]

You use this word, "sober", what does it mean?

[Auric Demonocles]

Considering they are British, I assume the other 90% haven't had any sex at all.

[Slammer]

Evening Metal Link: BOLT THROWER!

[Ted S.]

Not metal. Definitely not metal.

[Archduke Trousersenthusiast]

Not pictured: Warty

[Slammer]

Not pictured: The Dungeon under the field

[Almanian!]

I bet dunphy could kick all three of their asses - at once

[some guy]

Of course he could. He's got a firearm, while they only have guns.

[Almanian!]

One is for killing, one is for fun

[Agammamon]

Nah, all he's got its a liddle-widdle 'patrol rifle' while all the criminals get ASSAULT WEAPONS!!!

[Ted S.]

Jesse probably likes the third guy's beard. 😐

[Zeb]

Are we sure the third guy isn't Warty?

[jesse.in.mb]

If that beard turned my crank I'd have long since moved to Amish country.

[Zeb]

I imagine that would be frustrating. Or are there a lot of Amish on the down low?

[jesse.in.mb]

That's an interesting question. I'l FakeGPS my phone to the middle of Amish country and fire up Grindr to...wait that won't work.

[db]

Amish have no objection to battery powered devices, and probably no objection to making fat stacks of cash leasing parcels of property to cell phone tower operators...

[Enough About Palin]

A small dead shark was found on the subway in Queens.

The fucking Fulton's Fish Market, how does it work?

[Pro Libertate]

Is that like that place in Seattle where they throw fish around all the time? Maybe someone ordered a shark?

[Clich? Bandit]

Here is a completely self unaware article from our tea sucking friends across the pond.

[Almanian!]

"it's like a slave camp"

Then quit, ya gap-toothed faggot! Fuck

[Zeb]

Yeah. A slave camp where you get paid, you can quit any time and you get to go home after working for 8 hours. Do people even know what slavery is? Someone should bring some people who have been enslaved there and ask them what they think.

[Episiarch]

I guess he wants Amazon's prices to go up, then. Because Amazon cuts corners everywhere it can to keep prices as low as possible.

[Pro Libertate]

I don't know if I can handle a world without cheap shit delivered for free two days later from Amazon.

[robc]

So who wants a lifetime job walking around a warehouse and putting stuff in a cart?

Its the perfect job for temps, because that would be hell long term.

[some guy]

Some people like that sort of thing. Gives them time to think.

[Brett L]

I keep beating this point with my "progressive" friends. Not all jobs are careers. That's a good thing. Use your job to be working poor but safe while you acquire the skills/training/schooling/practice for a career.

[SweatingGin]

People should be able to support a family of four working at McDonald's! Living wage! They need a comfortable retirement, too!!! IT'S A PERFECTLY FINE CAREER!

[Zeb]

It'll all be automated soon enough.

[Pro Libertate]

The robots are our future.

[Slammer]

companies' excesses must be bounded by our society's larger needs, like human well-being

Which capitalism has done for more people in history than any other option, asshole.

[Agammamon]

"Chris Martin says his job lasted less than a week after he took a day off for blisters "

Yah, Imagine that. You took a day off because you didn't prep properly and instead of going down to the pharmacy and putting a moleskin on it, means you ain't got what it takes to work there.

[Irish]

I also am hesitant to believe someone's story like that without evidence. An awful lot of people are terrible employees, and the farther you go down the ladder the worse employees they tend to be. That's why they're working such low skill jobs, after all.

It's very possible that 'took a day off' is code for 'decided not to show up and didn't inform my supervisor.'

[T]

Yeah, when I worked at the plant we would hire guys who would decide that after anywhere from half a shift to a few days that we weren't paying them enough ($10 and hour starting) to sweat that much. They would either just walk off or never show up again.

[Tonio]

An awful lot of people are terrible employees, and the farther you go down the ladder the worse employees they tend to be. That's why they're working such low skill jobs, after all.

Yes, but keep in mind that there are people of truly limited capabilities who can only go so high and they tend to be those long-term good employees in low-skilled jobs. Hopefully they're not trying to support families.

[Archduke Trousersenthusiast]

What I learnt about men: the scientist who became a stripper

[John]

They felt repellent, that their wives and girlfriends could never accept their desires and that they could never ask advice about sex because they were supposed to somehow know everything.

This is why men cheat. For men a woman doing something to please him sexually is an emotional affirmation. If their wives won't do such things and the man is worth having, eventually some other woman will and the guy will take the emotional affirmation he is not getting from his wife.

[Calidissident]

Eh, I wouldn't really say that. That's true in some cases but IMO most men (and women) cheat because they can't resist the urge to fuck other people and don't give a shit about their partner's feelings.

[Calidissident]

*To clarify when I say "most men and women" I'm strictly referring to those who cheat

[Brett L]

"I learned that men have a much more varied perception of what sort of bodies are beautiful or sexy than a lot of women think they do.

Also, "scientist". Anthropological studies can't be rerun exactly.

[sgs]

"Also, "scientist". Anthropological studies can't be rerun exactly."

Oh god, stop this crap, every time I see this stupidity all it does is reaffirm the ignorance of the person stating it.

[Brett L]

Its not my fault it isn't science. Sorry your social "sciences" degree didn't pan out.

[sgs]

"Its not my fault it isn't science."

That's what makes you ignorant, the fact that you can't design an experiment so it can be repeated.

"Sorry your social "sciences" degree didn't pan out"

I'm an actuarial. I'll let you think about how much of a fucking idiot you look like right now.

[Brett L]

But you cannot run the same anthropological experiment again. Because you'd need the same people with the same information. Which is impossible.

[DesigNate]

So are you saying that anthropological experiments CAN be designed to be repeatable?

[Agammamon]

Or he's saying a physics experiment *can't*?

[Invisible Finger]

She discovered men have a much wider set of values for what makes for an attractive woman.

"The upper-tier clubs had less variety than the lower-tier clubs," she said.

So she sort of refutes her own point. She seems to be subsTITuting "attractive" for "attainable".

[Agammamon]

I think a lot of women confuse this.

There's multiple tiers of attractiveness.

1. What I really, really want.

2. What I think I can get.

3. What I'll settle for

4. What I won't touch.

most people fall in category 2 and 3 but think their in category and don't understand why I might look elsewhere from time to time.

[Agammamon]

They're in category 1

[Rock Action]

Dear Salon, I forgot the post-script to this: Men will have sex with pretty much anything reasonable that is naked and moving.

[Sevo]

Rock Action| 8.7.13 @ 4:52PM |#
"Dear Salon, I forgot the post-script to this: Men will have sex with pretty much anything."

Just had to fix that.

[Pro Libertate]

I've heard of men who will have sex with hands. No, seriously.

[John]

What is funny is that she could have done the same study by just interviewing strippers and going to strip bars talking to the customers. So the whole thing was really just an excuse to indulge her fantasy of being a stripper. NTTAAWWT

[JW]

Her headshot seals the deal.

Katherine Frank is a cultural anthropologist (Ph.D. Duke University, 1999), sex researcher, and writer. Her most recent book, Plays Well in Groups: A Journey Through The World of Group Sex (Rowman & Littlefield, 2013), explores the phenomenon of group sex across time and place.

She is also the author of G-Strings and Sympathy: Strip Club Regulars and Male Desire (2002) and a coeditor of Flesh for Fantasy: Producing and Consuming Exotic Dance (2006).

Frank is a scholar-in-residence in the Department of Sociology at American University in Washington, DC, and faculty associate at The College of the Atlantic in Bar Harbor, ME.

[DesigNate]

Holy shit, gorgeous AND smart (well at least well studied)? Sign me up.

[Invisible Finger]

Gorgeous makeup... And she looks like she's wearing a few pounds of it.

Take the makeup off and uggo city.

[Episiarch]

Hey, not bad at all.

[Auric Demonocles]

How old is that picture? She doesn't look remotely close to 40 there (which she must be if she finished a PhD in 99).

[JW]

Who knows how old the pic is, but her AU faculty pic is still looking pretty good.

[Auric Demonocles]

Definitely not as good as the other, but if I was single and she started hitting on him, I wouldn't turn her down for being too old.

[Invisible Finger]

Like I said, uggo city. Of course, I knocked her down a few for "Duke".

[BiMonSciFiCon]

Hey now. Ok we deserve it.

[The Heresiarch]

She also wrote a book about group sex. That's a grade-A missile twister if I ever saw one.

[Pro Libertate]

Um, psycho slut? Is that a PhD option now?

[John]

http://watchdog.org/99627/gree.....ndra-aide/

Terry McCulluffe's company linked to Solyandra. There isn't a scam in America Terry is not in on. He is an earner.

[some guy]

That gubernatorial race is going to be one mega shit show once it kicks into full gear.

[Irish]

The Atlantic is oh so sad that the new Doctor Who is a man.

[Episiarch]

There's nothing sadder than giving that much of a shit about Dr. Who.

[Clich? Bandit]

HEY!

*Tosses Tom Baker Scarf over neck and walks away*

[Zeb]

What the fuck is wrong with people. It is the same character, just with a different body. In 50 years of Dr Who, it has been completely consistent that time lords regenerate with the same sex as they started with. And let's not forget Romana, who was a female time lord who was in many ways smarter and more competent than the Doctor.

[jesse.in.mb]

Neil Gaiman says you're wrong: "I was the one who wrote the line about the Corsair changing gender on regeneration, in "The Doctor's Wife" after all, and made it canon that Time Lords can absolutely change gender when they regenerate."

[SKR]

dammit you beat me to it.

[Zeb]

Well, I don't accept the new series as canonical anyway.

[jesse.in.mb]

Now you're just being a crank.

[Lady Bertrum]

Neil Gaiman wrote for Dr. Who? I had no idea. Very cool.

[jesse.in.mb]

Just two episodes so far "The Doctor's Wife" and "A Nightmare in Silver" (I believe Nightmare is a retooling of the Cybermen, but I'm a season behind so I can't confirm).

[Lady Bertrum]

Darn, more time suck. Now I need to go watch those episodes.

[Almanian!]

That's not a man, man! Oh, wait, it is.

Never mind.

[paranoid android]

While it's sad that casting choices on a goofy science-fiction adventure series are now SERIOUS POLITICAL ISSUES, the thing I find most amusing about all this crap is that the people I've most heard say they wouldn't want a female Doctor, and feel most strongly about it, are women. I mean, the author says:

Having a woman as the smartest, bravest person in the universe, being able to fix any problem, save the world with her wits, a magical vehicle, and boundless courage--who wouldn't want to watch that show?

I'm assuming she thinks the answer to that rhetorical question is "nobody", so why the hell doesn't she write a pilot, pitch it to a network, and make her own damn show? If everybody would want to watch such a show, wouldn't the networks be fools not to hand her piles of money to make it happen? Huh?

[Irish]

While it's sad that casting choices on a goofy science-fiction adventure series are now SERIOUS POLITICAL ISSUES, the thing I find most amusing about all this crap is that the people I've most heard say they wouldn't want a female Doctor, and feel most strongly about it, are women. I mean, the author says:

The last guy had a chin like Frankenstein, but women really wanted to bang David Tennant and, to a lesser degree, Christopher Eccleston. I think a lot of women were actually attracted to Matt Smith too, even though his forehead is 3 miles long.

The people who would be most disappointed by a female Doctor are the fan girls who have spent the last 10 years desperately wanting to jump his bones.

[Zeb]

Those women woudl be disappointed. Timelords have dicks that are 3 inches wide, 2 inches long and are hollow with an inside diameter of 1 inch.

[Episiarch]

Because she's a retarded fangirl who demands that the show cater to her and her desires? And who takes a shitty, dumbass show way, way too fucking seriously?

[Irish]

And who takes a shitty, dumbass show way, way too fucking seriously?

This is why there are no Time Lord libertarians

[Episiarch]

Seriously, dude, it's appalling that Dr. Who is even called sci-fi, because its "science" is even more laughable than Star Trek's. It's basically time travel fantasy. I mean, it was fun watching Tom Baker as a little kid in the 80s, but then I grew up and put away childish moronic things. What did I call it before? "Scifi for 8-year-olds"?

[Auric Demonocles]

What's more scientific than a big ball of wibbly wobbly... time-y wimey... stuff?

[Pro Libertate]

As far as I'm concerned, the only Dr. Who anything ever worth watching in the slightest was Tom Baker, because he--not the writing, not the special effects, not anything else--was entertaining.

And fuck io9 and their stupid obsessions.

[Auric Demonocles]

That's not true. The show was worth watching from 06-08 because a hot redheaded nymphomaniac engineer wanted to watch it.

[Pro Libertate]

Externalities!

[Auric Demonocles]

Those were the days... I am only now approaching the point where I will have had as much sex since then as I did during those 2 years.

[T]

Are we talking about Charlie Anders again? Or did I miss a step?

[Episiarch]

I don't know; I refuse to read her gibberish so I'm not going to check. Plus I'm still not sure she's a she. Her picture doesn't help.

[Pro Libertate]

It's kind of a guy-sounding name. I mean, Charlie, that's a dude, right? And Anders, that's an astronaut name. Besides, that picture--not very girly.

[Irish]

A woman who seems to consist entirely of anti-Democrat stereotypes gets arrested.

"I questioned her as to why she had other peoples (sic) EBT cards and she ?began screaming that I was a 'dumb (expletive)' for paying for food when she gets it for free," trooper William Koko?cinski wrote of Vivencia ?Bellegarde, 25, of Everett, noting she had her own electronic benefits transfer card and also the cards of two other people.

"She repeatedly called me a racist and told me she was from Haiti and she was gonna 'put voodoo on my white (expletive),'" Kokocinski wrote. "(She) told me to Google her name and find out who I was '(expletive) with'. She further explained that her name translated means 'give life take life' and she emphasized 'TAKE LIFE'. She then shouted that she was 'coming for all you white (expletives).'"

[John]

If she had started talking about gamboling I would think she was Mary Stack.

[Brett L]

She ran a Boston Globe delivery truck off a bridge(!) Apparently, she's a NYT fan.

[Auric Demonocles]

Maybe she's mad about the sale.

[PapayaSF]

Ah, the joys of immigration from the Third World. Diversity!

[Irish]

Walmart hilariously mocks The Nation for being massively hypocritical.

The Nation?"America's leading progressive print and online magazine"?recently encouraged its readers to sign an open letter demanding that Walmart increase wages to $12/hour and this article called our company one of the "biggest abusers of low-wage labor."

In an ironic twist, ProPublica recently reported that starting this fall, "interns at the Nation Institute will be paid minimum wage for the first time in the history of the 30-year-old program." As ProPublica noted, The Nation has been paying its full-time interns a weekly stipend of $150 per week?less than the current federal minimum wage rate of $7.25 per hour.

[John]

But those interns are from the right families. So that is totally different.

[Almanian!]

PWND

[Episiarch]

Well, of course they're hypocritical. Because everything they hate stems from projection, so you just know they're doing it too.

[Apatheist ?_??]

I totally want to see their response to this.

[Episiarch]

Have fun waiting. What is the normal reaction when the left gets its hypocrisy pointed out?

[Apatheist ?_??]

Well sometimes they explain why it doesn't apply to them, shift goalposts, ignore it and say more hilarious stuff. That kind of thing is what I'm looking for.

[Sevo]

"What is the normal reaction when the left gets its hypocrisy pointed out?"

Misdirection: BUUUSH!

[PapayaSF]

This is great. Reminds me of the case a while ago in which a union was hiring protestors to demand a higher minimum wage, but wouldn't pay them the current minimum wage.

[VG Zaytsev]

I want to start a picketers union and then picket scab picketers.

[Sevo]

"The trial of Major Nidal Hasan was adjourned early on day two as his "stand-by" defense lawyers requested to be allowed to withdraw, saying Hasan's defense involves trying to get the death penalty."

Let's say this is true. I mean the guy is a re3ligious zealot, so dying for his cause is 'rational' within that fantasy.
So what do the lawyers do?

[John]

It is a real problem. You have a duty to act in your clients' best interest. But they get the final say on their defense. When your client insists on acting against their interests, you have no choice but to follow their advice. But you have to document the living hell out of it.

The problem for the defense is that there will later be some appellate attorney who will claim they didn't try to talk him out of it enough and were ineffective. That can affect their license. Basically, Husein is following the guide on how to make it as difficult as possible to convict him with a clean record that will stand up on appeal.

[Agammamon]

The real problem here is who's defining 'his best interest'. The conflict comes because he defines it as attaining martyrdom and his defense council defines it as getting him off scott-free and having the victims families pay to have the blood washed out of his shirt (not really, I just have Blackadder on the brain).

Its a complete conflict of interest.

[Invisible Finger]

Give him two plates of food: pork sausage or poised lamb sausage. See which one he chooses.

[Marshall Gill]

No, make it poisoned pork sausage and poisoned lamb sausage.

[Invisible Finger]

My test was to see how crazy he is. Your test is government overstepping its bounds.

My test should be used on the Gitmo hunger strikers too. (Not that I'm trying to legitimize Gitmo.)

[Heedless]

But what if he spent the last few years building an immunity to iocane powder?

[Irish]

Dumbass psychologist idiotically extrapolates, comes to ridiculous conclusion.

The Las Vegas Guardian Express writer, Rebecca Savastio falsely attributes to me the claim that religion "will completely disappear by 2041." What I do project is that religious people will comprise a minority by that date, a very different prediction.

Clearly, there is less of a market for religion in societies where ordinary people feel secure in their daily lives. In the most developed countries, such as Japan and Sweden, the quality of life is so good that the majority is already secular.

Japan's population is in free fall and Sweden has an increasingly large Muslim minority. Given that low income groups have far more children than the wealthy, the idea that religion will be a 'minority by 2041' seems totally laughable.

It's especially ridiculous to attempt to extrapolate out 30 years from a relatively recent trend.

[John]

All trends continue at their current rate to infinity. Didn't you know that Irish?

[Ted S.]

Extrapolation

[Zeb]

Religiosity also comes and goes. And I suspect that in the future, people will be less attached to the traditional religions of their families, so it will be hard to predict what the trends will be.

[John]

It tends to go in cycles. My guess is that in a hundred years the places that are most strictly religious now will be much less so and the places that are the most secular now will be much more religious. People have a hard time staying out of the ditches.

[np]

It won't disappear at all even people are becoming more secular in the non-Muslim world. But she neglects to mention that it's simply being replaced by a religious belief in the state.

Even Japan despite being secular is not actually atheist either

Omiyamairi: How Japan welcomes babies into the world

In Japan, there's a saying that goes: "Japanese people are born into Shintoism, get married as Christians and die as Buddhists." Usually it's meant to be a comment on Japan's laissez-faire attitude towards religion. However, having experienced all three of these life events in Japan, it's a surprisingly accurate aphorism.

Many towns also celebrate fertility festivals as they've done for millennium
Peenzilla Worship! Japan's Kanamara Festival Coming Up this April!

[Sevo]

np| 8.7.13 @ 5:15PM |#
"It won't disappear at all even people are becoming more secular in the non-Muslim world. But she neglects to mention that it's simply being replaced by a religious belief in the state."

That and the mud-momma.
Shermer's done some writing on the belief module in the brain; it can focus on many things.

[Gozer the Gozerian]

I suppose I will have to defend him in a qualified way: He isn't merely extrapolating from a single trend-line, but rather examining correlations, arguing for some reasonable causal relationships, and speculating how those will drive changes in the future.

Obviously, he could be wrong, but it isn't voodoo.

[Irish]

I agree with this. The problem is, the most wealthy societies are actually not having very fast population growth relative to less wealthy societies.

I therefore think that even his argument from correlation is incorrect. If there's faster population growth in less wealthy areas, then it does not follow that more people will end up living in wealthy, secular societies. Even though he isn't arguing from pure extrapolation, his argument from the correlation of wealth to secularism is still deeply flawed.

[Gozer the Gozerian]

It's almost like there are conflicting, even countervailing forces at work, making prediction difficult...

[Paul.]

In the most developed countries, such as Japan and Sweden, the quality of life is so good that the majority is already secular.

They are? Lotta temples and shrines in Japan.

[Lady Bertrum]

Most Japanese are secular but their quality of life isn't "so good". In fact it's quite shitty (on a relative basis). The Japanese are in a demographic, economic, and existential death spiral. Using Sweden as some basis for comparison is stupid as well. Its population is only marginally larger than the state I live in (NJ). Its not scalable.

[Invisible Finger]

Socialism is a religion. That one seems to be skyrocketing in popularity.

[Ted S.]

Oh sure it's a typo:

Police request for $1200 night vision goggles shows up in budget as $51,200 for "Naval Surface Warfare Center."

The article says the police chief was surprised, although that's probably more over being found out.

[Almanian!]

WHO WILL THINK OF THE NASCAR FANS??!

[Render Unto Caesar]

I wonder what percentage on Reasonoids we arrested in the last year.

[Render Unto Caesar]

*were

[Almanian!]

I wonder what Jenny McCarthy's doing?

/random

[Render Unto Caesar]

Referring to the first link.

[Episiarch]

I've managed to not get arrested for several years now at this point.

[Render Unto Caesar]

Not me.

[Episiarch]

What was the charge? Public masturbation?

[Render Unto Caesar]

How'd you guess????

[Episiarch]

Let's just call it "intuition".

(wink wink)

[Killazontherun]

Since my birthday back in 68. But there was an incident eleven years ago where a female officer wanted to arrest me really, really badly, but had nothing on me to justify doing so no matter how much I smirked back at her.

[flye]

Y'all are brutalizing me.

[Dweebston]

Libertarians skew upward in terms of wealth (although schmucks like me drag us back down), so I'm thinking probably disproportionately few.

[Render Unto Caesar]

I'm thinking it may be more than the national average considering libertarians' tendency to sort of just not obey laws they consider unjust.

[Irish]

Yes, but if you're a wealthy white person breaking the law, you're less likely than a poor person doing the same. Libertarians might be more likely to get arrested than the average person of the same income, but the fact that they tend to be wealthier than average means overall rates are probably pretty low.

[Render Unto Caesar]

Arrested more than other wealthy whites?

[Render Unto Caesar]

Good point, by the way.

[RagingAlbino]

So in honor of Shark Week are we throwing sharks in subways?

[John]

That commercial where the shark eats the seal in front of the ditsy newsbabe is fucking awesome.

[Almanian!]

Indeed - "must watch" in the Almanian household.

"Holy [BLEEP]"

Fucking awesome!

[Almanian!]

I like this idea. Perhaps Red Wings fans can start throwing sharks on the ice ILO octopussies, too.

[Almanian!]

Really glad to continue to hear about how Oprah equates Trayvon Martin and Emmett Till.

Cause - TOTALLY the same thing. The. Same. THING.

[John]

That is so fucking disgusting. Whatever ambivalence I had for Oprah ends with that. I officially move from not caring about her to thinking she is one of the worst scum bags on the face of the earth. Why doesn't she just go find Till's grave and squat her big fat ass down and take a dumb on it? What a pig.

[Episiarch]

Remember, for the race/grievance hustlers, everything has to be the maximum outrage because it's what stirs up the mob. So if they're working an angle, expect it to eventually be raised to the highest of outrages no matter how inappropriate that is. It's how hustlers work.

[Pro Libertate]

She what? Seriously, that's like comparing a Jewish person dying in an accidental kiln explosion to the Holocaust.

[Slammer]

3 of Reasonoids favorite subjects: Canada, Bears, and Poutine.

[jesse.in.mb]

Shenanigans! There's no definition of bear that applies here.

I really want him to have one wafer thin mint after that.

[Slammer]

Hahaha! Mr. Creosote!

[Agammamon]

Soo, which are you?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SiIoinCRQVA

[jesse.in.mb]

Gay taxonomy doesn't really handle average people very well (it's an admittedly limited chart). Most people would sort me into the "cub" category although I don't generally participate in "bear culture."

[Auric Demonocles]

I've done some of those eating challenges (best I've finished was 4 lbs of bacon cheeseburger/fries). The carbs are always the worst part. 15 pounds of mostly fries would be hell.

[Killazontherun]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Maybe its true that I just posted a video on another thread on Canadians and bears before I even read your, your outrageous claim, but, I have never actually seen a poutine. Unless that is Canadian for poontang.

[jesse.in.mb]

Wait, the confluence of Canadians and bears intrigues me. Where is this other video of which you speak?

[jesse.in.mb]

Wait, just found it.

[Libertymike]

Last night I listened to NPR's John Hardwood interview Rand Paul.

During the interview, Hardwood asked Paul to confirm that libertarians would prefer to scrap Social Security, Medicare and other federal entitlements.

Rand just whiffed. He dodged the question by claiming that Hardwood was putting words in his mouth and that he was injecting a false premise and that the libertarians he, Rand, knows do not support eliminating SS and SSI and the like and that he knows of no libertarians in the Congress who want to do so.

Yeah, litmus test time: BYE BYE RAND.

[Tak Kak]

Bye from whom? Libertarians or voters?

[Gozer the Gozerian]

I thought it was widely understood that he was only the tallest Senatorial midget...?

[robc]

Thats just a stupid litmus test.

A litmus test of the presently impossible is stupid.

[Libertymike]

Perhaps I should have better described the litmus test.

Perhaps if you could have heard how fast he was running away from fundamental libertarian principles, you would understand.

In addition, I neglected to put in the post above that he told John Hardwood that eliminating entitlements like SS and Medicaid and Medicare is not what most libertarians desire.

He is a lying douchebag.

[Libertymike]

robc, I didn't know that you had a soft spot for the welfare state.

[Calidissident]

Regarding the libertarians and libertarian-leaning politicians in Congress, he's probably right. It's pretty hard to get elected running on a platform to end Social Security, Medicare and all other government programs.

[Invisible Finger]

Your litmus test sounds like a purity test.

He's a fucking politician. You really think he's going to try to piss off the NPR base by towing the libertarian line?

I think Rand's overrated, but calling this a mistake is naiive. By lying to his non-supporters, he actually can increase his chances. And pissing off a couple purists is politically worth it.

[Marc F Cheney]

A new non-profit school in Boston aims to provide "democratic learning" by offering no grades, no attendance, and no "real teaching."

"The Matt Damon Center for Excellence."

[Pro Libertate]

"The Matt Damon Center for Exhalance."

[Paul.]

Global Warming!

[Pro Libertate]

Ah, ha!

[Paul.]

The trial of Major Nidal Hasan was adjourned early on day two as his "stand-by" defense lawyers requested to be allowed to withdraw, saying Hasan's defense involves trying to get the death penalty.

*gets out of the way*

[Hawk Spitui]

Researchers say dolphins can remember whistles of dolphins they met twenty years ago, the longest social memory observed in non-humans.

A useful skill if they ever start running for office, I'm sure.

[Eduard van Haalen]

Korean to would-be American choicer censors: "You can't do this. This is my country."

"...Three women physicians, Donna Harrison, Mary Davenport and Martha Shuping, were invited months ago to give lectures [in Korea] on complications of abortion for the MWIA, the Medical Women's International Association....

"However, our presentations were cancelled at the last minute.... ith the cancellation of our talks, our host Anna Choi, head of group of 680 Korean obgyn physicians who stopped doing abortions, had decided to set up a radio and newspaper interview for us during the time that we were supposed to present.

"When we got to the "radio" interview that Anna had set up, it was actually a television interview, and the newspaper reporter was there also....

"The SecGen then said "Who gave you permission to interview these people?" And the reporters said "We are the press, we don't need anyone's permission. We have freedom of the press" And the Sec Gen snarled at Anna and said "Did you arrange this? Did you talk to the organizing committee?" And Anna said "I am on the organizing committee. I don't need to talk to anyone." And the Sec Gen stood in front of the camera, and refused to move, and said "The interview is over." Then the reporters said "You can't do this. We have the freedom of the press. You are interfering with the freedom of the press." But the Sec Gen would not move and said "The interview is over."

[Eduard van Haalen]

"We exited to the hall, and a Belgian and German woman were waiting. They started to make fun of the Korean translator, and to snap pictures in her face. And she said "You can't do this. This is my country. I will call the police." And they actually grabbed at her...

"And then our Korean hosts ushered us down the hall, and down the elevator, along with the reporters and camera crew, and we resumed the interview in the commons area downstairs by the trash cans and the bathroom. We were able to complete the entire interview, and instead of our audience being a few women doctors from the conference, we now have an audience of probably a few thousand."

http://lesfemmes-thetruth.blog.....tions.html

[Eduard van Haalen]

Wait, those particular censors were Belgian and German, but there were American censors too, it seems.

[Eduard van Haalen]

It's genius public-relations gestures like this which help explain why the choicer movement is doing as well as it is.

[Killazontherun]

I wonder if she skeet surfs.

08.07.2013 Pro Surfer Anastasia Ashley's Twerking Warm-Up (VIDEO)

http://www.wwtdd.com/2013/08/p.....-video-08/

[Pro Libertate]

Top Secret is free on Amazon Instant Video right now (for those of us who are Prime, anyway). Just watched it again.

[Killazontherun]

I texted my nephew this morning after being reminded of it in the morning links if he has seen it. He hasn't, so we're watching it on Netflix when he gets home tonight. Got the beer chilling.

[Gozer the Gozerian]

Since we had a climate change post today, it seems worthwhile to leave this here for the Late-Night Links?.

[The Last American Hero]

OT: National Geographic

Sun's magnetic field is about to flip: What it means for Earth

I think it means we can stop talking about global warming and now freak out about global cooling.

[PapayaSF]

This happens about every 11 years, though.

[Almanian!]

Thanks for the derp!, 'murcan.

Why don't you run along and iron your sheet or something.

[John]

Funny how American shows up the same day White Indian reappeared. It looks like the Stack is off her meds and out of involuntary commitment.

[Robert]

Is "derp" supposed to represent a belch? No etymology at Wiktionary.

[MJGreen]

They're called "Swedish Muslims." One does not "replace" the other.

[Irish]

In the case of Sweden they actually kind of are. Of course, that's the result of the de facto segregation that tends to occur in welfare states where new immigrants form little immigrant enclaves and don't bother leaving to go take jobs in wealthier areas because they can sit on welfare. That's why the overall unemployment in Sweden is like 5% and the Muslim unemployment is closer to 15%.

Welfare states result in a situation where immigrants don't have to work alongside non-immigrants and assimilation tends to stagnate. That's why Muslims in Sweden and the rest of Europe have done an atrocious job of assimilating relative to immigrants in America.

[Calidissident]

Seems to me that if they're sitting on their asses collecting welfare, then they're doing a great job of assimilating into Swedish culture

[Irish]

Why doesn't the same thing happen with the large quantity of Eastern European immigrants?

It does. Eastern European immigrants are far less wealthy than Western Europeans and are very prone to sit on their asses collecting benefits.

Eastern European criminals blamed for surge in migrant offences.

Eastern European immigrants carry out 1/10 of crimes in England.

This, of course, doesn't show that Eastern Europeans are prone to crime. It shows that low income groups are prone to crime regardless of race. I just find it really funny that you used Eastern Europeans as your example when they're actually a group that many Europeans see as high crime.

[Pro Libertate]

I'm sorry, you have erred. Sam Kinison is the go-to guy for detachable penis stories.

[Gozer the Gozerian]

Yeah, that plays right into your hand, especially since most of us here will link social pathologies of that group to political environments, including former political environments.

[PapayaSF]

This, of course, doesn't show that Eastern Europeans are prone to crime.

Well, I suspect "Eastern European" includes Gypsies, and it's not a baseless stereotype to note that they are "prone to crime."

[Irish]

Now that American got nuked, my post makes it look like I suddenly got totally obsessed with Eastern European crime rates for no reason.

Reason really needs to have a system where someone's posts get replaced with -post deleted- or something.

[Calidissident]

Yeah, when I first read your post, I thought to myself "Why the fuck is he replying to my comment?" What exactly did American say? Something about Eastern Europeans? I still don't really see how that was relevant. My comment was mostly tongue-in-cheek

[Irish]

He was responding to me and said something like 'YOU LIBERTARIANS ARE ALWAYS BLAMING THE WELFARE STATE FOR POOR PEOPLE DOING BAD THINGS, WHEN ALL THINKING PEOPLE KNOW THAT IT'S BECAUSE THEY'RE GENETICALLY INFERIOR! IF IT'S BECAUSE OF THE WELFARE STATE, THEN WHY DO EASTERN EUROPEANS NOT COMMIT ALL OF THOSE CRIMES LIKE THE DIRTY MUSLIMS DO!'

I then pointed out that Eastern Europeans are actually known for having an awful lot of criminals in their midst, which supports my theory that it's because of government distortions and the welfare state.

[Calidissident]

Gypsies are of Indian descent. In any case, it's definitely not just Gypsies getting tossed into that group that's responsible for the crime rates or stereotypes in Europe

[Calidissident]

His idiotic theory doesn't even make sense on its own terms, because "Muslim" is not a race, and Arabs, Berbers, Persians, and most other Middle Eastern groups are Caucasian

[PapayaSF]

Gypsies are of Indian descent, but the ones there are complaints about in Britain and elsewhere in Western Europe today are largely from Romania and elsewhere in Eastern Europe.

[Calidissident]

I'm aware of that, my point is that although they've lived in Eastern Europe in recent times, that isn't their ancestral homeland. Regardless, Irish's point was not limited to Gypsies