A.M. Links: Rand Paul Returns Fire on Christie, Weiner Won't Pull Out, Western Muslims Aid Syrian Rebels

• 

  US Government

  Rand Paul slapped back at Chris Christie's attack on libertarians in general and Paul in particular.

• Glenn Greenwald challenges the NSA to deny Edward Snowden's snooping revelations under oath. Smackdown!
• Anthony Weiner vows to remain in the New York City mayoral race. Larfs in abundance.
• Syrian rebels are getting assistance from the West — western muslims volunteering for the cause.
• The mother of a man police said shot himself in the back of an Arkansas police car is challenging their story in court.
• The driver (read: engineer) of the derailed train in Spain has been charged with reckless homicide.
• The Pope says he "won't judge" gay priests. Which is probably smart, personnel-retention-wise.

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Comments

[Fist of Etiquette]

Anthony Weiner vows to remain in the New York City mayoral race.

Let's not be too hard on Wiener just because he has staying power and won't withdraw before the climax. Also, penis.

[gaijin]

insert dick joke [here]

[Snowden's left nut]

The word "joke" in that comment is gratuitous, unnecessary, superfluous, and wrong.

[SugarFree]

Here insert joke dick?

[RBS]

Is that like a 15ft dildo?

[Fist of Etiquette]

Take my wife's marital aid... Please.

[gaijin]

a novelty dick?

[SugarFree]

There's nothing novel about Episiarch.

[wareagle]

good for Paul and his reponse to Christie. High time someone called out the Governor on his bloviating.

[Snowden's left nut]

What I like about Rand Paul is that he's always, always true to hip-hop.

EPMD put a record out, was dope
Tension spread, and I quote "Smack me and I smack you back"
Sounded like the answer to the I Ain't No Joke track

[Fist of Etiquette]

Glenn Greenwald challenges the NSA to deny Edward Snwden's snooping revelations under oath.

A lot of tugging at shirt collars over at the NSA today.

[Rasilio]

I'm sure they have some well trained liars who are amoral enough to be able to lie under oath.

[Rich]

They passed the polygraph, didn't they? 😉

[Fist of Etiquette]

Giving the least untruthful statements under oath?

[Rich]

Not first!

[a better weapon]

The mother of a man police said shot himself in the back of an Arkansas police car is challenging their story in court.

Goddamn cartoon guns.

[Andrew S.]

What the liberal media isn't telling you is that the guy was actually a legendary contortionist. Yeah, that's it. Totally.

[Fist of Etiquette]

Magic bullet.

[Neoliberal Kochtopus]

Rand Paul slapped back at Chris Christie's attack on libertarians in general and Paul in particular.

I wouldn't slap too hard. New Jersey can't afford another seismic event.

[Fist of Etiquette]

Rand Paul slapped back at Chris Christie's attack on libertarians in general and Paul in particular.

Obamacare probably paid for the lap-band surgery, too.

[anon]

Know who else can't commit to actions in a timely fashion?

[Swiss Servator - past LTC(ret)]

I'll get around to answering this later.

[Jordan]

Syrian rebels are getting assistance from the West ? western muslims volunteering for the cause.

Lyle, here's your chance!

[Swiss Servator - past LTC(ret)]

My offer of training assistance and partial equipping remains open to any volunteers from H&R!

[Cdr Lytton]

By equipping, do you mean whatever TA50 you have in the attic?

[Swiss Servator - past LTC(ret)]

I have some...current stuff. No weapons or muntions - that you have to get from the CIA or whomever.

[Brett L]

Body armor with "most" of the plates still good?

[kinnath]

Salon on the 2nd.

http://www.salon.com/2013/07/2.....amendment/

[anon]

Fucking words, how do they work?

[Brian D]

Why don't words mean what I want them to mean?

[anon]

Only if 5/9 Supreme Court Justices agree with you.

[Francisco d Anconia]

If only they realized the origin they'd realize the phrase was lifted directly from Virginia's State Constitution, and it refers to the preference of militias over standing armies and civilian control of the military.

Virginia: That a well regulated militia, composed of the body of the people, trained to arms, is the proper, natural, and safe defense of a free state, therefore, the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed; that standing armies, in time of peace, should be avoided as dangerous to liberty; and that in all cases the military should be under strict subordination to, and governed by, the civil power. Art. I, ? 13 (enacted 1776 without explicit right to keep and bear arms; "therefore, the right to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed" added in 1971).

Link

[anon]

That would require reading comprehension.

[Heroic Mulatto]

No.

[Neoliberal Kochtopus]

^THIS

[itsnotmeitsyou]

TR:DR version...

Blah blah blah, Dickinson, blah blah, words don't mean what you think, blah blah, gunz r bad, derp.

There, now no one else has to go through the migraine inducing mental gymnastics required to read that tripe.

[Neoliberal Kochtopus]

That was just a warm-up. Now you have to go make sense out of the article that says Detroit failed because racism.

No really:

http://www.salon.com/2013/07/2.....s_detroit/

[Dweebston]

I won't, but I'll hazard the guess that no forthcoming federal bailout means persistent racial bigotry, and BOOOOSH.

[itsnotmeitsyou]

ERrraRrHHRHRGGHHH...

Whew, barely made it out alive. Ok, here goes...

blah blah, global warming made god punish black people, rich whities are only rich because of noble black victims, racism made all the white people move away, racism made investors flee, blah blah blah, paula deen, george zimmerman, blah blah, we shouldn't point fingers but it's totally racist white rich guys fault. DERP.

I'm going to chug a bottle of vodka and 1000mg of advil now.

[SugarFree]

I'm willing to bet that many white Americans still believe those hysterical early post-Katrina stories about New Orleans residents shooting at aid helicopters (all were later retracted or exposed as false), or believe there was widespread rape and murder among the 20,000 refugees in the Louisiana Superdome. (There were no homicides and only one reported sexual assault, an attempted rape.)

And who reported those stories as facts in an endless loop?

[Neoliberal Kochtopus]

I thought that same thing. My understanding was that it was the Doommongers and their Bluetard allies who wanted to tar the Bush Administration who rang up those stories. It wasn't Team Red by any stretch of the imagination.

[SugarFree]

Just like they ran down the economy with two solid years of doomsaying to get Obama elected.

[R C Dean]

Detroit failed because racism.

You can make a case that the rabidly racialist rent-seeking of the Detroit government was pretty indispensable to destroying the economic base.

[itsnotmeitsyou]

That's not racism, R C, that's equality. Duh!

[Zeb]

Well, they do have a little bit of a point. The 2nd could have been a lot clearer. How about something like "The people shall have the right to keep and use firearms and other weapons for self defense, hunting and other lawful purposes".

[Xenocles]

You always have the right to do lawful things. The point of the BoR was to impede important things from being outlawed.

[Zeb]

Well, yeah. That's what all of the other words that I wrote say.

[R C Dean]

Still too squirelly, Zeb. Try:

The people shall have the right to keep, bear, an use firearms and other weapons for any purpose that does not infringe on the life, liberty or property of another."

[sloopyinca]

Still some unnecessary words that the government can use to limit the RKBA. You start saying "that does not infringe" and you open it up to interpretation.

My way below is the best. No loopholes for busybodies to get in and fuck with it.

[Zeb]

Well, that was off the top of my head. I welcome revisions and corrections.

[John C. Randolph]

The people shall have the right

Nope. The constitution doesn't create any rights, and this phrasing presumes that our right to self defense is a gift. It's not a gift, it's a right.

-jcr

[sloopyinca]

How about: "The government shall make no law regulating the right to keep and bear arms."

[hamilton]

Damn it Sloop, why do you keep using such roundabout language? That's so murky, it's just "spectacularly unhelpful". Might as well be in Polish.

[Bam!]

First amendment uses similar language, and yet the FCC can regulate speech.

[R C Dean]

While we're purging potential squirrel words, lets get rid of "the right", which just begs to be defined narrowly.

The government shall make no law regulating or restricting the keeping and bearing of arms, provided, that the penalty for commission of a violent felony may include such restrictions.

[sloopyinca]

define "violent".

[Marc F Cheney]

Glenn Greenwald challenges the NSA to deny Edward Snowden's snooping revelations under oath. Smackdown!

Please. They'd just lie under oath, without fear of reprisal. Like they've been doing all along.

[thom]

Exactly. They probably have a secret court ruling somewhere that permits lying under oath in the interest of national security.

[Rasilio]

I'm pretty sure that an agency that has access to all of our communications has the dirt on any politician or prosecutor who poses a threat to them so it's not like they really care one way or another about court rulings.

[Marshall Gill]

It all depends on what the meaning of "is" is.

[thom]

I'm sure they like to stick an official wrapper on their evil.

Dot the i's and cross the t's - never hurts to get your secret rubber-stamp court to secretly rubber-stamp what you're doing.

[db]

They'd answer, truthfully, a question that was not asked, and the questioner wouldn't realize or would wilfully ignore the distinction.

[Slammer]

Sir, I am unaware of any such activity or operation... nor would I be disposed to discuss such an operation if it did in fact exist, sir.

[Bardas Phocas]

The largest space battle in human history.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-23489293

[anon]

Imagine the stimulus!

[Swiss Servator - past LTC(ret)]

I thought it was going to be about some brawl in a NASA bar.

[Brett L]

I'm pretty certain it took place in the Russian launch facility town after the guidance guys accused the propulsion guys of being idiots after the last Proton 5 mishap.

[Jordan]

Alright, I'm going to repost my question from the bastardized morning links thread, because FYTW.

So, is anybody else watching The Bridge on FX? It's pretty damn good. Feels kinda like The Wire on immigration instead of the Drug War. Also, the main character is so socially inept that she must be an elusive female libertarian.

[kinnath]

Yes. It is a great show.

[DontShootMe]

you sure about this?

[kinnath]

Yes. It is a great show.

[DontShootMe]

he's sure.

[KDN]

I've not seen anything about it. When's it on and how many episodes in?

[kinnath]

FX, Wed 10pm Eastern 9pm Central. Three episodes in so far.

[Jordan]

Three episodes so far. I don't know when it airs, because I watch it on Amazon Instant Video.

[Jordan]

But Zakalwe has alerted me to the fact that it's available on Hulu too.

[Zakalwe]

Hulu Plus, and only on the web, you can't stream it via Xbox.

[Jordan]

Well damn. I have Hulu Plus and stream it to my smart TV. But it's almost not worth it anymore because of crap like this.

[Crusty Juggler]

I like the show so far. I think the main character has asperger's, and I just hope that it does not become a "cause" sort of show, but they seem to shy away from being overly political about immigration so that is a good sign.

Three other observations about the show:
-I think the Mexican detective is like a rich man's Antonio Banderas.
-Matthew Lillard is working and is not homeless and for that I am happy.
-Apparently Mexican women throw their pussies at tall, white dorky gringos, and that means I must get down to Mexico.

[Jordan]

Apparently Mexican women throw their pussies at tall, white dorky gringos, and that means I must get down to Mexico.

LOL that scene struck me as odd too. But I still laughed.

[bostonaod]

I am really enjoying The Bridge and agree there's something of a Wire feel (about the greatest compliment you can pay to a show), but it feels like they are pushing the female lead's 'issues' a little too much. To put it vaguely and spoiler-free, what kind of murder police is unfamiliar with such concepts as corruption and dishonesty?

[Jordan]

Yeah, I agree.

[Jordan]

She's not really convincing as a homicide detective, either.

[Fist of Etiquette]

The Pope says he "won't judge" gay priests.

Won't judge? So we didn't elect a Catholic as pope this time around?

[robc]

Maybe he has read the bible, unlike most Catholics, and knows its not his job to judge.

[Fist of Etiquette]

Who are you, Martin Luther?

[robc]

Nah, me and ML have fundamental disagreements about marriage.

[SugarFree]

Nah, me and ML have fundamental disagreements about marriage.

Maybe he really wanted to stay just friends.

[robc]

Maybe he really wanted to stay just friends.

Its not the first time Ive heard that.

[hamilton]

Why do you have to bring race into everything?

[Pro Libertate]

Maybe the pope is going to declare himself a Lutheran?

[Neoliberal Kochtopus]

it actually is his job to judge, if the powers given to Simon Peter mean anything.

[robc]

Judging was not one of those powers.

That is reserved to God.

[Tim]

"We" are you a Cardinal? OUTED!

[Fist of Etiquette]

I was in the running for pope, you know. I met the prerequisites.

[Tim]

10 inch schlong is not a "prerequisite"

[Swiss Servator - past LTC(ret)]

It is a "help" however.

[Art Vandelay]

Not for the poor altar boys.

[Pro Libertate]

Hold on, this doesn't make any sense to me. If priests have to be celibate, then their sexual orientation is irrelevant, isn't it? Or is he saying that gay priests can have sexual relations and heterosexual priests can't?

[Rasilio]

I guess it depends on whether one defines homosexuality by what one does vs what one is turned on by.

[BakedPenguin]

He's saying only hetero priests can molest kids. Gays can't, because that would just be sick.

[Drake]

Will he judge kid-touching priests?

[Eduard van Haalen]

Here was the Pope quote I found:

"When I meet a gay person, I have to distinguish between their being gay and being part of a lobby. If they accept the Lord and have good will, who am I to judge them? They shouldn't be marginalized. The tendency [to homosexuality] is not the problem ? they're our brothers."

http://ncronline.org/blogs/ncr.....am-i-judge

Another quote:

"The Catechism of the Catholic Church explains this very well. It says they should not be marginalized because of this (orientation) but that they must be integrated into society," he said, speaking in Italian.

http://forward.com/articles/18.....ized-or-j/

[Eduard van Haalen]

From the Catechism, which the Pope referenced:

"2357 Homosexuality refers to relations between men or between women who experience an exclusive or predominant sexual attraction toward persons of the same sex. It has taken a great variety of forms through the centuries and in different cultures. Its psychological genesis remains largely unexplained. Basing itself on Sacred Scripture, which presents homosexual acts as acts of grave depravity,140 tradition has always declared that "homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered."141 They are contrary to the natural law. They close the sexual act to the gift of life. They do not proceed from a genuine affective and sexual complementarity. Under no circumstances can they be approved.

"2358 The number of men and women who have deep-seated homosexual tendencies is not negligible. This inclination, which is objectively disordered, constitutes for most of them a trial. They must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided. These persons are called to fulfill God's will in their lives and, if they are Christians, to unite to the sacrifice of the Lord's Cross the difficulties they may encounter from their condition.

[Eduard van Haalen]

"2359 Homosexual persons are called to chastity. By the virtues of self-mastery that teach them inner freedom, at times by the support of disinterested friendship, by prayer and sacramental grace, they can and should gradually and resolutely approach Christian perfection."

http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG0015/__P85.HTM

[Stormy Dragon]

The problem is lobbying by this orientation, or lobbies of greedy people, political lobbies, Masonic lobbies, so many lobbies. This is the worse problem.

All these people who don't agree with me being allowed to talk whenever they like! It's horrifying!!

[The Late P Brooks]

Weiner won't pull out

One of those shows yesterday had a clip of Weiner telling a reporter, "You guys don't get to say who is allowed to run. The voters will decide."

I hate to say it, but this made me like him just a little bit.

[anon]

I agree with you on that Brooks.

Also, it's not like there's ever been a politician in history with some sort of sexual "misconduct" lurking in his closet.

I just have plenty of other reasons to hate Weiner.

[Fist of Etiquette]

I hate to say it, but this made me like him just a little bit.

Just the tip.

[KDN]

Even Howard Dean knows that Obamacare isn't going to control costs.

There does have to be control of costs in our health-care system. However, rate setting?the essential mechanism of the IPAB?has a 40-year track record of failure. What ends up happening in these schemes (which many states including my home state of Vermont have implemented with virtually no long-term effect on costs) is that patients and physicians get aggravated because bureaucrats in either the private or public sector are making medical decisions without knowing the patients. Most important, once again, these kinds of schemes do not control costs. The medical system simply becomes more bureaucratic.

Unfortunately he still likes the overall scheme. But hey, small victories.

[robc]

Its the Economic Calculation problem all over again.

Didnt this get fucking settled in the 1930s?

[KDN]

Look, they feel like it should work therefore it will work. Laws are magic, after all.

[Spoonman.]

But Tinkerbell just needs you to clap harder. If we believe, we can ignore supply and demand.

[db]

Our great computers fill the hallowed halls.

[robc]

I know what Im doing for the next 20:34

[gaijin]

It's one for all and all for one
We work together, common sons
Never need to wonder how or why

[robc]

Another toy will help destroy
The elder race of man
Forget about your silly whim
It doesn't fit the plan

[Dweebston]

We didn't have computer modeling and a class of intellectual shills government-funded economists to centralize decision-making on a minute enough basis.

[robc]

We still dont.

[Tak Kak]

They'd need to have started around the Big Bang with computers from the future, apparently.

http://mises.org/media/7481/Ce.....on-Problem

[Lord Humungus]

Phoenix Woman Yanks on Husband's Testicles, Causes Scrotum Tear and Bleeding, Cops Say
http://blogs.phoenixnewtimes.c.....usband.php

[Snowden's left nut]

This story pains me.

[DJF]

The War on Men continues.

[SugarFree]

At least he got some action.

[Marshall Gill]

It is entirely unsurprising that you would call this "action". I'll pass.

[WTF]

Well, if you're used to Warty's gentle ministrations...

[Rasilio]

Hey I know a few guys who would pay extra for that.

[Rich]

under oath.

"Please place your right hand on the PRISM User Manual, and ...."

[Bardas Phocas]

Captain Kent Parker Wright
Koreans making fun of American journalism.
http://slothed.com/2013/07/23/.....r-failure/

[Jordan]

Heywood Jablowme could not be reached for comment.

[Rasilio]

When interviwed Mike Hunt was just dripping with sarcasm

[BakedPenguin]

Excellent.

[Lord Humungus]

Phuket Police on lookout for 'slap attack' teen gang
http://www.phuketgazette.net/p.....21741.html

"About a week ago, we started receiving reports from Phuket City Municipality of a gang of male teens, about 16 to 17 years old, riding motorbikes and trying to hit street sweepers and people who went to exercise at Saphan Hin public park in Phuket Town," Col Sermphan said.

"The teenagers ride up behind their victims, then slap them," he added.

[Elspeth Flashman]

I think I'll go exercise at the park . . . wait, no, just Phucket.

[Pro Libertate]

Sometimes you just have to say Phuket.

[Rich]

And they yell "This is for Trayvon Martin!"

[Zeb]

Well, I suppose if the rumors about Martin's proclivity toward stealing and fighting are true, that is oddly appropriate.

[Ska]

Forget it, Humungus; it's Phuket Town.

[Jordan]

The Petition of the Candlemakers is no longer satire:

Proving that idiocy truly has no bounds, Spain issued a "royal decree" taxing sunlight gatherers. The state threatens fines as much as 30 million euros for those who illegally gather sunlight without paying a tax.

[gaijin]

failure to engage in approved commerce can be regulated as commerce...hmm, where have we heard that before?

[robc]

"Spain Privatizes the Sun"

Someone doesnt know what words mean. Im really hoping that was a translation problem.

[Spoonman.]

No, they just blame all stupid things on corporations in their corporation buildings.

[anon]

The petition of the Candlemakers succeeds!

[Zeb]

I think that they think "privatize" means giving complete control of a thing to a corporation. Which is especially absurd when that corporation is one which exists only because of government support and privilege.

[Pro Libertate]

That's interesting. Several years ago, a Spanish woman claimed ownership of the sun.

[Matrix]

We need government control over the sun, you damned anarchists. How else are we going to make sure it'll come up in the morning unless some elected official or bureaucrat sacrifices a virgin to ensure it comes up signs off on its coming up?

[gaijin]

Hey don;t forget! This is the week that we find out there never really was a Great Recession!

Government to Revise 82 years of GDP

[VG Zaytsev]

How long before they start airbrushing disfavored people out of pictures of Obama.

[anon]

I find it quite interesting they only want to revise 82 years.

Cause you know, there's no way they could make those pre-central bank numbers comparable to post-central bank numbers. People might find out central banks are bad!

[gaijin]

^^exactly

[KDN]

The Fed is a bit older than 82 years. The issue is that it's only been calculated since '33-'34 (using data from 1929 onwards, iirc) so that's the point where the data first becomes reliable instead of speculative.

[anon]

The issue is that it's only been calculated since '33-'34

Pretty sure that's not true, don't have time to cite though.

I think you mean hasn't been calculated *by the government*.

[KDN]

Pretty much. The measurement was initially constructed for Congress at the beginning of the Depression, and that's all the Feds' records go back to. Putting together GDP for past periods isn't very difficult assuming you want to, but you and I know the official measures are only going to be from the periods where the Feds were actually watching at the time.

At the same time though, a case can be made that calculations for previous periods' GDP aren't as reliable since records weren't kept with the measurement in mind. This is all trivia though; the important question is if the revision is appropriate (personally, I think it is).

[R C Dean]

that's the point where the data first becomes reliable instead of speculative.

Which explains why they are revising all of it. Its just been so damn reliable.

[KDN]

The revision is not in the underlying data but the result. They are revising a component of the equation because it was providing an incomplete picture of what it purports to show. This is fundamentally different than revising the previous quarter's GDP / U-3 / etc because some the data was unavailable at the time of the initial estimate.

[anon]

They are revising a component of the equation because it was providing an incomplete picture of what it purports to show

Or rather, it doesn't provide a picture of what they want it to show.

[KDN]

I don't doubt that the fact that the US being a lot better than most of the world at this missing component played a significant role in its inclusion into GDP and the subsequent revision. But I think it's something that should have been done all along regardless.

I'm curious to see if they will be accounting for transfers of IP into net exports as well.

[Bryan C]

"...the most far-reaching methodological changes in years will add the equivalent of a country the size of Belgium to output in the world's largest economy."

Belgium!

[R C Dean]

No, it won't add a single nickel to the economy.

What it will do is change some statistics.

This confusion between what is real and what is not will be the death of us.

[anon]

Quite the opposite, actually; someone's paying them to perform this useless exercise, taking money out of the economy that could be used for something useful.

[KPres]

Plus the damaging effects from whatever new dreamed up initiative the manipulated results were engineered to justify.

[Lord Humungus]

U.S. allowed Italian kidnap prosecution to shield higher-ups, ex-CIA officer says
http://www.mcclatchydc.com/201.....fPejI3aOSo

A former CIA officer has broken the U.S. silence around the 2003 abduction of a radical Islamist cleric in Italy, charging that the agency inflated the threat the preacher posed and that the United States then allowed Italy to prosecute her and other Americans to shield President George W. Bush and other U.S. officials from responsibility for approving the operation.

[Cdr Lytton]

If you're convicted in absentia, can you serve your sentence in absentia?

[Swiss Servator - past LTC(ret)]

I would serve my sentence confined to the United States, Puerto Rico, the US V.I. and American Samoa.

[NeonCat]

YOU WILL FEEL THE WRATH OF THE GUAM CHAMBER OF COMMERCE!

[Ken Shultz]

"Anthony Weiner vows to remain in the New York City mayoral race."

Someone should encourage Republicans in New York to temporarily register as Democrats, if necessary to vote in the primary, and all vote for Anthony Weiner en masse.

[Rich]

"Weiner -- Rise to the Occasion and Grab the Opportunity!"

[Not a Libertarian]

Well this is New York City, those 500 GOP voters aren't going to make that much difference.

[Andrew S.]

The thing is, he might be the best of a bad group. Quinn is a Bloomberg clone who's likely to double or triple down on his stupidity.

[AuH20]

I don't know anyone out of ny and nutso progressive circles who like bloomie. Wiener could rise from the ahses as an old school, ed koch kind "how I'm doin?" New york mayor. Quinn being a dem just reiforces the "progs are nanies" meme. They can no longer say "but Bloomberg started as a republican"

[KDN]

Quinn is a Bloomberg clone on every piece of nanny statism that he puts forth but is willing to turn the Board of Ed back over to the NYFT. So technically she's even worse than Bloomberg.

She does want to get rid of stop & frisk, but so do the rest of the Dems, and I think she and Weiner are the most likely to evolve on that position once mayor. Weiner more so than Quinn though since his power base is in the outer boroughs and they tend to like that policy.

[Ken Shultz]

"The thing is, he might be the best of a bad group. Quinn is a Bloomberg clone who's likely to double or triple down on his stupidity."

If the Republican could run against him, that would obviously be ideal for whomever the Republican candidate.

If Weiner actually wins, then he comes into office crippled--and if you have to have a Progressive mayor, having a crippled Progressive in office is better. ...just ask any Republican in San Diego.

[SugarFree]

Neither of them could be reached for comment.

[BigT]

An impotent weiner?

[Fist of Etiquette]

The voting lever: grip it and rip it.

[Lord Humungus]

Signs of declining economic security
http://bigstory.ap.org/article.....-no-work-0

Four out of 5 U.S. adults struggle with joblessness, near poverty or reliance on welfare for at least parts of their lives, a sign of deteriorating economic security and an elusive American dream.

Survey data exclusive to The Associated Press points to an increasingly globalized U.S. economy, the widening gap between rich and poor and loss of good-paying manufacturing jobs as reasons for the trend.

[Spoonman.]

Exporting natural gas would fix all of those problems.

[alittlesense]

I have some to export.

[Palin's Buttplug]

The garment industry exported millions of jobs since 1970.

Here is the South sewing was the only marketable skill most women had. (other than illegal ones)

Bitter clingers now.

[WTF]

CHRISTFAGS!!11!!11!

[Bryan C]

Look for the union label.

[alittlesense]

Good Lord, I "struggled with joblessness" when I first got out of college, and "near poverty" when I was first married. I never thought it was the apocalypse, just part of being young and not a trust-fund baby.

[MP]

I'm strongly skeptical of that survey. I'd love to see the questions.

Yes...I stuggled with joblessness too...when I was 15. I'm guessing the the survey asked "Have you EVER struggled"...nice and opened ended to try and sweep every everybody and make press worthy numbers.

[Lord Humungus]

agreed - 4 out of 5 seemed like a crazy high number.

[Zeb]

It did until "at least parts of their lives".

[VG Zaytsev]

That survey proves the fluidity of earnings in America, with people moving up and down the economic ladder over the course of their lives.

Apparently the times would prefer a more rigid caste system where those born in the lower half stay there.

[Redmanfms]

Apparently the times would prefer a more rigid caste system where those born in the lower half stay there.

Which is something I love to bring up when some shithead gets on about the fragility of the middle class and how because of the austerity or lack of some government program some people fell out of the middle class. Socio-economic mobility goes both ways, and if you squeeze the balloon to "keep people in the middle class" the people on the fringe are going to move down a notch and fucking stay there.

[Zeb]

Four out of 5 U.S. adults struggle with joblessness

And how many stoically accept joblessness? How the fuck do they know who is struggling?

[creech]

My local news rag actually dropped the "for at least parts of their lives" from the headline. I was all WTF until I found the real findings buried about five paragraphs in. Actually, if one counts social security recipients, subsidized mass transit, etc. etc. the definition is broad enough to include even Bill Gates and Warren Buffett.

[Rasilio]

"Survey data exclusive to The Associated Press points to an increasingly globalized U.S. economy, the widening gap between rich and poor and loss of good-paying manufacturing jobs as reasons for the trend."

How precisely can survey data indicate this? It is not like a survey respondent knows *why* they can't find a job or even a good job, they can just build a narrative to blame it on.

Furthermore the gap between rich and poor cannot possibly explain or even be a factor in growing economic insecurity and while there may be localized issues with losses of "good paying manufacturing jobs" across the entire economy there is no evidence to support this as some "good paying manufacturing jobs" are suffering severe labor shortages (CNC lathe operators for example).

Finally yes the market is more globalized and it will result in less economic security for Americans compared to the post World War 2 world where the US was the only functioning industrial economy for 30 years however it completely ignores the real causes of economic insecurity in excessive regulation squashing entrepreneurialism, inflationary monetary policy disincentivizing saving and encouraging debt, and workers inability/unwillingness to retrain and learn new skills in a rapidly changing economy.

[mr simple]

Survey data exclusive to The Associated Press points to an increasingly globalized U.S. economy, the widening gap between rich and poor and loss of good-paying manufacturing jobs as reasons for the trend.

Yeah, that's it. It's because of those dern richers that people can't find a job. If those obstructionist rethuglicans would just let Obama whip the rich and continue to fix the economy through nationalization, everything would be ok. Who you gonna believe, the AP or math and reality?

[mad libertarian guy]

If 4 of 5 adults in the US are considered to be living in poverty of one form or another, your definition of poverty is fucking worthless.

[R C Dean]

Its the "at least parts of their lives" bit that invalidates this stat.

I work, and have worked my whole career, with a lot of high-dollar people. I doubt any of them have never, not once in their lives, gone through a period of paycheck-to-paycheck insecurity.

[Brett L]

This is exactly what you would expect in an economically mobile populace. Thomas Sowell beats this fact to death in his 3 volume Basic Economics. In a free market young people are poor, old people are rich, there are some exceptions. Most of these can be explained by good parents or bad genes (medically induced poverty). In a less free economy, the rich stay rich and the poor stay poor.

[The Late P Brooks]

Salon on the 2nd.

Fortunately, even if I wanted to click on that, my computer refuses to format salon as a readable page.

[anon]

You're computer's just looking out for you by preventing brain damage & strokes.

[itsnotmeitsyou]

If there ever was an argument for a computer spontaneously developing AI, refusing to format Salon as a readable page seems as good as any I've heard...

[Lord Humungus]

Worries Mount as Syria Lures West's Muslims
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/07.....2H8U2yHKJQ

A rising number of radicalized young Muslims with Western passports are traveling to Syria to fight with the rebels against the government of Bashar al-Assad, raising fears among American and European intelligence officials of a new terrorist threat when the fighters return home.

[Heroic Mulatto]

What's the problem? Aren't these the guys we're arming?

[R C Dean]

Flypaper 2, Explosive Boogaloo?

[Lord Humungus]

NZ article reopens debate on spying on journalists
http://bigstory.ap.org/article.....journalist

New Zealand on Monday disputed a newspaper report saying its military conspired with U.S. spy agencies to monitor a freelance journalist in Afghanistan, a report that has provoked concerns over how surveillance programs revealed by National Security Agency leaker Edward Snowden might be used to spy on reporters.

The New Zealand government said Monday there is no evidence to support a report in the Sunday Star-Times newspaper that the military was assisted by the United States in monitoring the phone data of journalist Jon Stephenson, a New Zealander working for the U.S.-based McClatchy news organization.

[Lord Humungus]

'BarCap was the Wild Wild West ? that's what we called it'
A former Barclays Capital trader, who asked to remain anonymous, speaks about his job and the relentless pressure to achieve higher margins.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/fin.....ed-it.html

BarCap was the Wild Wild West ? that's what we called it, that's how it was. That year especially. Commodities was the big thing to be in. Barclays was this old great institution, but it had turned into a bucket shop. We hired a bunch of quants [quantitative traders] to just dream up these products. Layers of complexity in each hedging product. Each layer created a new angle to take a turn.

Suddenly at BarCap we were handed all the corporate clients to sell to. We all talked about it like it was lambs to the slaughter.

[KDN]

Before scoring an interview at BarCap I was subjected to a 2-hour SAT-lite standardized test. Isn't that a violation of Griggs v. Duke?

Also, the problem isn't that BarCap was allowed to create their speculative products and act this way, the problem is [s]uddenly our clients are people who know nothing about the business, nothing about trading, nothing about the products they should or shouldn't buy. Caveat emptor, motherfuckers.

[EDG reppin' LBC]

Yep. If you don't understand what you're buying, don't buy it. That's not a *me* problem, that's a *you* problem.

[itsnotmeitsyou]

That's not a *me* problem, that's a *you* problem

I wholeheartedly agree with this assessment...

[Ken Shultz]

"Paul told reporters after speaking at a fundraiser outside Nashville on Sunday that Christie's position hurts GOP chances in national elections"

Exactly.

And if Christie keeps it up, Paul should take the gloves off and point out that Christie's positions (across the board, as far as I can tell) are actually the same as Barack Obama's.

[Palin's Buttplug]

A would-be robber was shot early Monday when he tried to hold up a south Fulton County Waffle House, police said.

Union City police Det. Gloria Hodgson said the suspect entered the Waffle House in the 4300 block of Jonesboro Road just before 2 a.m., "brandishing a pistol and demanding money."

A customer inside the 24-hour diner shot the robbery suspect, Hodgson said.

http://www.ajc.com/news/news/l.....tom/nY6ny/

[Lord Humungus]

Ponnuru: Christie's Dumb Attack on Libertarians
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/.....rians.html

Libertarians are an important part of the Republican coalition. Republican politicians frequently disagree with libertarians on issues, but a broad-brush attack will understandably anger them. And even Republicans who aren't down-the-line libertarians share some of their concerns. Representative James Sensenbrenner of Wisconsin, for example, is a longtime supporter of the Patriot Act. He is, in other words, not a clone of Kentucky Senator Rand Paul. But Sensenbrenner also favored the amendment to rein in the NSA that the House narrowly voted down this week. These Republicans can be persuaded to overcome their libertarian instincts on many issues -- but not by being told that they shouldn't have these instincts in the first place.

The Republican Party badly needs a debate over national security and civil liberties, but that debate will be useful only to the extent it gets beyond generalities. And another thing that Republicans need -- at least those who are considering Christie as their presidential standard-bearer in 2016 -- is to see that the man is capable of a little finesse, especially when it comes to managing the Republican coalition.

[Not a Libertarian]

And that Ponnuru said this of Christie, should give the governor pause.

Unless Christie's statements have nothing at all to do with Republican politics, but are simply to burnish his "moderate" credentials for the New Jersey electorate, and the mainstream media.

Will the Times endorse Christie for reelection?

[Matrix]

Ever since Repukes lost the White House, they've been blaming Libertarians... as if we're the reason they suck so much.

[Lord Humungus]

Court says prostitute cruising 'is fine'
http://www.thelocal.it/2013072.....ng-is-fine

A man has won a case in Italy's highest court which will allow people to freely cruise for prostitutes in a town in the Abruzzo region, Italian media reported.

The Court of Cassation ruled that local authorities in Montesilvano were wrong to fine the man for slowing his car down in order to check out prostitutes, AGI news agency said.

yeah, I was having engine troubles. Yeah, that's it!

[AuH20]

I saw part of Melissa Harris Perry s show Sunday. Holy fuck is she possibly the stupidest person I've ever seen. Her line was soomething along thr lines of "the fact is that an unarmed black child was killed by someone of another tribe with a gun[noce way of avoiding saying Hispanic] and no one was sent to jail." She also seemed to be questioning the very basis of self defense laws,asking how "reasonable" fear is, and "where does that fear come from." So apparently this femist professor thinks women should just get raped, because racism and guns.

Also, her lisp is infuriating

[Andrew S.]

I'm starting to get the feeling that the only reason she's employed is an attempt to make everyone else at MSNBC look smart in comparison.

[Palin's Buttplug]

She is the Sean Hannity of MSNBC.

[AuH20]

No, that job falls to whenever one of their morning news bimbos tries to nail an intervewee with what she thinka is a gotcha question

[SugarFree]

AuH20 broke the sacred Monday trust. He must be shunned. Shun him. SHUN!

[Neoliberal Kochtopus]

Yes, He Must Be Forsaken.

[Lord Humungus]

let the circle of shame commence.

[Swiss Servator - past LTC(ret)]

Is this like a Klingon dis-commendation?

[Neoliberal Kochtopus]

It's like being kicked out of the Q Continuum.

[SugarFree]

It's like being kicked out of the Q Continuum.

Yes! Make him wear a bad toupee!

[Neoliberal Kochtopus]

No. His penance shall be to make sweet love to Guinan.

[SugarFree]

So the sentence is death.

[WTF]

But it's not rape-rape.

[Matrix]

Well, after Olbermann got canned, they needed someone to continue making the intellectual void bigger.

[SugarFree]

Another sinner, Brother Neo.

[Neoliberal Kochtopus]

What shall his penance be, Brother SugarFree? I understand you have a bevy of delightfully painful suggestions on a blog somewhere.

[SugarFree]

The Kumquat of Agony!

[Zeb]

Except Olbermann wasn't really so much stupid as an insufferable, arrogant prick with no regard for reality or objectivity. He knew what he was doing. Harris-Perry seems to be just an idiot (though I think I have only seen about 10 minutes of her in total).

[WTF]

BUSHPIGS!!!11!!!CHRISTFAGS!!11!!!

[SugarFree]

They care not for their very souls.

[VG Zaytsev]

Her real job is a tenured university professor.

Mull that over for a while.

[SugarFree]

She's actually quite bright for someone with tenure. I've had people with tenure complain to me that the right-click menu on Windows doesn't have their email in it (figure that one out).

[AuH20]

Of fucking political science. Her biggest work seems to be on how blacl political discourse moves from places like bafbershops to larger movements

[Heroic Mulatto]

No, her use of the word "tribe" is not mere euphemism. Her entire worldview is tribal. This is the woman who argues that your children don't belong to you, but to society, the "tribe".

Her tribalism is a symptom of her mental neuroses. Too vapid and boring to formulate a healthy sense of self through her interests and accomplishments, she is forced to construct her ego through her social, political and ethnic affliations.

However, this inferior form of self fomulation poses a problem for the multiracial Harris-Perry. The very definition of the Tragic Mulatto made flesh, she can only find validation through subsuming her perceived difference (and thus, individuality) into the radical Critical Race Theory peddled by the academic flim-flam man that is her daddy.

On the one hand, I can sympathise with Harris-Perry as her father undoubtedly subjected her to emotional and psychological abuse which twisted her sense of self-worth into the cringing, pathetic tragic mulatta that she is. However, she is also possed of enough intelligence that she could have reasoned her way to a much healthier self-image and worldview.

[VG Zaytsev]

The Struggle Continues

[Jordan]

Damn, that's gonna leave a mark.

[SugarFree]

Via Wikipedia, here's a polite way to say she got denied tenure twice:

She is a professor of political science at Tulane University. Prior to that, she was an associate professor of politics and African-American studies at Princeton University from 2006 to 2010 and taught political science at the University of Chicago from 1999 to 2005.

Chicago to Princeton to Tulane? No wonder she got a TV gig. Her academic career was in a fatal tailspin.

[mad libertarian guy]

Via Wikipedia, here's a polite way to say she got denied tenure twice[.]

How does a black woman get denied tenure in AA studies in our Affirmative Action world? She must be all kinds of retarded. She has theories that sound interesting to a bunch of race baiters, but can't properly formulate them in to a coherent argument. And when you can't coherently argue to a panel of university faculty in whatever department houses AA Studies at Chicago and Princeton, you're a fucking retard.

[SugarFree]

The Chicago to Princeton move might have been on purpose (although that it was at the 6 year mark is telling), but the article says she was denied tenure at Princeton due to "a lack of scholarly work." Which can mean a lot of things. It's not an objective process (of course, you know that.) Since she was denied tenure after 4 years, it reads to me like she went up early for tenure, thought she would skate in, and got slapped down hard.

[creech]

In the 1950s, males aged 13 to 17 were called "young men" (at least in news accounts I've read of the 1957 Boy Scout Jamboree.) Now one is a "child?"
Why not just revert to "infant" and be done with it?

[Longtorso, Johnny]

She also seemed to be questioning the very basis of self defense laws,asking how "reasonable" fear is

So I can question feminists' 'reasonable' fear that all men are rapists?

[The Late P Brooks]

an increasingly globalized U.S. economy, the widening gap between rich and poor and loss of good-paying manufacturing jobs as reasons for the trend.

Blah blah fucking blah.

[Lord Humungus]

this is like the worst AM Links ever. The timing just feels off as if a thousand souls cried out as one.

[Rich]

"Ask me what's the most important thing about AM Links."

[Fist of Etiquette]

What's the most important thing abou-

[Rasilio]

Do a thousand people actually read the morning links? Seems like closer to 50 to me (maybe 60 if you include the sockpuppets)

[The Late P Brooks]

The state threatens fines as much as 30 million euros for those who illegally gather sunlight without paying a tax.

Is this related to solar panels?

Otherwise, I just...

[anon]

No, it's quite literally to prevent people from installing their own solar panels on their homes and thus forcing them to pay the utility company so that the company can recoup its losses for providing solar energy.

Yes, you read that right. First, they want solar because it's green, and now they don't cause the utilities might go broke.

[KDN]

First, they want solar because it's green, and now they don't cause the utilities might go broke.

It's almost like this whole green energy thing is about funneling resources to connected individuals and groups. Nah, couldn't be. I'm sure their intentions are nothing but noble.

[Neoliberal Kochtopus]

Or it's almost as if it's all about power and control.

[AuH20]

But private water wheels are still okay?

[Lord Humungus]

yes.

[AuH20]

But private water wheels are still okay?

[Lord Humungus]

no.

[Brian D]

But I WANT TO LIVE!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K6jNwgTt8zI

[Suthenboy]

Tomato farmers.

[db]

Does anyone have a list of "pivots-to-something" that Obama has done and the dates they were announced? I want to do an infographic chart on the topic.

[AuH20]

Hes talking about his basketball game. He has a really good face up game from the post. Dominant spin moves

[KDN]

Obama Pivots to Economy? Again

He's twirling towards freedom.

[Lord Humungus]

Bill and Hillary Clinton are 'livid' at comparisons to Weiner's sexcapades and Huma's forgiveness
http://www.nypost.com/p/news/l.....D4SiXeWSLJ

[Mike M.]

Hillary is always livid.

[Eduard van Haalen]

BILL: "I didn't tweet my junk, unless 'tweet' is a euphemism for putting it in an intern's mouth."

[WTF]

Hillary's what is always livid?

[Marshall Gill]

I do not wish to know the answer to this question.

[bostonaod]

"How dare they compare Huma with Hillary? Hillary was the first lady. Hillary was a senator. She was secretary of state."

And before all that, Hillary! was a cuckquean. Seems like a fair comparison.

[The Late P Brooks]

Also, her lisp is infuriating

I can survive the lisp, but her smarmy juvenile "I'm/We're so much better than all those dopey Republikkkanz!" mannerisms drive me bananas.
What a smug obnoxious cunt.

[Mike M.]

Obama compares Ho Chi Minh to Thomas Jefferson?? That mask has slipped so far it's fallen all the way off.

[anon]

Ho Chi Minh did emulate Jefferson, only he had different ends in mind.

Just cause you copy the Declaration doesn't mean you have the same intent in mind.

[Palin's Buttplug]

Provide the exact quote from a reputable source. I suspect some wingnut is lying again.

[WTF]

CHRISTFAGS!!!1!!!!BUSHPIGS!!11!!

[Neoliberal Kochtopus]

Please don't respond to it. It's Troll-Free Monday, people.

[Lord Humungus]

every day should be Troll-Free.

[Neoliberal Kochtopus]

You unmasked my clever plan!

[Xenocles]

I thought it was Monkey Monday and Troll-Free Tuesday.

[Mike M.]

Any day that Shrieking Idiot is here is Monkey Day.

[Zeb]

Which is worse, responding to trolls or telling other people not to?

[Neoliberal Kochtopus]

Your mom. Your mom is the worst.

[Zeb]

Does that mean Nicole is my mom? I'm pretty sure I'm older than she is.

[Lord Humungus]

Mother Jones on the same issue:

Obama Says Ho Chi Minh Was Inspired by Founding Fathers, Conservatives Freak Out

http://www.motherjones.com/moj.....t-fox-news

[Eduard van Haalen]

Their Ho quote undermines the idea that Ho was just like Jefferson:

""All men are created equal. They are endowed by their Creator with certain inalienable rights, among these are Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of Happiness""

"This immortal statement was made in the Declaration of Independence of the United States of America in 1776. In a broader sense, this means: All the *peoples* on the earth are equal from birth, all the *peoples* have a right to live, to be happy and free."

See the rhetorical shift here? Rights don't belong to individual human beings, but to "peoples." So long as a "people" is independent of foreign control, they're free, even if the rulers of the people are dictators.

[Marshall Gill]

One of the very first thing a collectivist does is attempt to confuse the term "human" with "person". There are all kinds of human beings who have been declared non-persons, just before their rights are denied.

[Elspeth Flashman]

So isn't this a bit like serial killers having inspiration from Jesus Christ? Should Christians freak out about that? and non-Christians be gleeful?

[Pro Libertate]

We discussed this here last week. While I believe Ho did say some things like that when he was trying to get the U.S. to pressure France, the subsequent body count and tyranny makes it tough to publicly praise him for something he clearly either never meant or tossed out early on.

It's also extremely impolitic as a public statement, because of the many veterans of the war, our French allies, the Vietnamese living under tyranny, etc.

I get that Obama was searching for some common ground, but our decent relations with Vietnam right now are based on trade. He should've just praised them for liberalizing their markets somewhat.

[VG Zaytsev]

It was just Obama parroting some nonsense that he heard from a left professor in his college days.

I'm sure he thought it was just a throw away pablum line.

[NeonCat]

Our common grounds are trade and Uncle Panda to the north and how scary it's becoming with it's ships and crazy territorial claims.

[Pro Libertate]

That's true, but I don't think public statements about us having some common cause with Vietnam against China are a good idea right now. China seems to be getting slowly more belligerent as its economy continues to slow down.

[Matrix]

High school kids and drop outs are going to strike because they think they think they should make more money

[VG Zaytsev]

Are they giving up video games for a day, or something?

[anon]

Nah, skipping their morning Starbucks Latte.

Short sbux y'all.

[VG Zaytsev]

But then they'll have to make their own coffee, and most of em lack the skill to do that.

[Neoliberal Kochtopus]

Fire them all.

[WTF]

Yeah, it's just so hard to replace unskilled labor. Fucking idiots.

[Gbob]

Hey, man. Hoodies and skittles aren't cheap you know.

[WTF]

And purple drank.

[Neoliberal Kochtopus]

Notice the lazy method of reporting:

"The workers are calling for wages of $15 per hour, more than double New York's current minimum wage of $7.25."

But it doesn't actually say what it is these workers are making. Just that they are asking for $15 an hour. they could be making $14 an hour for all we know.

"Fast-food workers in New York City earn an average salary of $11,000 annually."

Hm. That's only $5.50 an hour. Either there's a massive chain of minimum-wage violations OR hey! guess what! These idiots aren't working 40 hours a week.

[Zeb]

To be fair, a lot of employees of places like that aren't offered 40 hour schedules for various reasons. But that's the job. Get a second job or look for a different one if you can't make enough there.

[Neoliberal Kochtopus]

I agree with you. how much do you want to bet, though, that a majority of the striking workers have been offered extra work or overtime and turn it down to go party?

[Zeb]

Seems likely.

[KPres]

Or call in sick at least one day a week.

[creech]

I'll give them this, they probably work damn harder and make half the money than the unionized slugs who sit in the cashier booths on the subway lines.

[Matrix]

And yet, they still can't keep the mayo off my damned burger!

[KPres]

Robert Wilson, Jr., a 25-year-old McDonald's employee in Chicago, told The Washington Post that he makes $8.60 an hour after seven years on the job.

LOL! Seven years on fries? Dude, learn a trade.

[Cdr Lytton]

protests will take place in New York City, Chicago, Detroit, Milwaukee, St. Louis, Kansas City, and Flint, Mich.

[KPres]

"Industry representatives, meanwhile, say that most fast-food restaurants operate on a meager profit margin, making it impossible to increase employee wages. But a report issued last week by the National Employment Law Project seemingly refutes part of that assertion, as fewer than one in 50 jobs in fast-food restaurants are managerial."

Was this written by the guy who makes the milkshakes? Because I've read this 10 times and can't draw any logical connection between the claim about margins and it's so-called "refutation". Am I missing something?

[Palin's Buttplug]

Federal Reserve 'Doves' Beat 'Hawks' in Economic Prognosticating
Slow Growth,

Low Inflation Give Yellen, Dudley Upper Hand on Forecasts

http://online.wsj.com/article/.....35700.html

[AuH20]

So I saw part of toddlers and tiaras, the beauty pageant show for the under 5ish set. Holy shit... our society takes kids away for pot smoking, but let these people keep theirs? Seriously cps should stage a fake toddler pageant and whoever sogns up gets their kids taken away

[Neoliberal Kochtopus]

I think the thumbscrews are having an effect on Sinner Goldwater's typing abilities.

[SugarFree]

See the unseen again!

[WTF]

Well, I'll never be able to unsee that abomination, thankyouverymuch.

[Marshall Gill]

See the unseen again!

Just remember, before you click on that link, what is seen cannot be unseen!

[Suthenboy]

Fuck my eyes

[Lord Humungus]

it's shows like this - and going to a local eating bad food event art festival that makes me want to burn the rich tapestry of life. Nuke it from orbit.

[Joe M]

Anthony Weiner vows to remain in the New York City mayoral race. Larfs in abundance.

And as we all know, Weiner is a man of his word.

[Eduard van Haalen]

At least he's shown himself willing to communicate with people, and courageously disclose embarrassing facts.

[Longtorso, Johnny]

The mother of a man police said shot himself in the back of an Arkansas police car is challenging their story in court.

Romans 13:1, New International Version
Let everyone be subject to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God.

THIS IS WHAT CHRISTIANS ACTUALLY BELIEVE

[Eduard van Haalen]

Are you familiar with Saint Robert Bellarmine?

http://www.catholicculture.org.....ecnum=6607

Or with George III called the American Revolution a "Presbyterian rebellion?"

http://epublications.marquette.....AI3172505/

[Longtorso, Johnny]

Benedict Arnold, who eventually supported his God anointed authority, was a better Christian than George Washington, who rebelled against the authority God established.

[robc]

Ah, but George Washington was also the authority God established.

You cant have just one.

[SugarFree]

You cant have just one.

God-established authorities are the Pringles of the political supermarket.

[robc]

God-established authorities are the Pringles of the political supermarket.

Although less tasty.

[anon]

Does that mean they're all stacked up nice and neatly until you get down to the bottom where you have to kinda pour them in your mouth?

I'm so confused.

[SugarFree]

"Once you pop, you just can't stop."

What is that but a powerful pro-abstinence message?

[Longtorso, Johnny]

Ah, true conservatism....whatever happens today is what is to be defended....

My point was the NT is full of govt cocksucking, which evangelicals are willing to use to keep people obedient when the likes of BOOOOSH are in charge.

[Eduard van Haalen]

Seriously? You're literally resorting to "but BOOOOSH!"?

[robc]

NT is full of govt cocksucking

Really?

It seems more of "govenment is trivial, dont let it concern you".

[anon]

No wonder I don't believe in God.

[Eduard van Haalen]

So I take it you're *not* familiar with the sources I cited.

As to Arnold, his father was excommunicated for drunkenness.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B.....Early_life

Washington had this to say:

"Of all the dispositions and habits which lead to political prosperity, religion and morality are indispensable supports. In vain would that man claim the tribute of patriotism, who should labor to subvert these great pillars of human happiness, these firmest props of the duties of men and citizens. The mere politician, equally with the pious man, ought to respect and to cherish them. A volume could not trace all their connections with private and public felicity. Let it simply be asked: Where is the security for property, for reputation, for life, if the sense of religious obligation desert the oaths which are the instruments of investigation in courts of justice ? And let us with caution indulge the supposition that morality can be maintained without religion. Whatever may be conceded to the influence of refined education on minds of peculiar structure, reason and experience both forbid us to expect that national morality can prevail in exclusion of religious principle."

http://avalon.law.yale.edu/18t.....ashing.asp

[Longtorso, Johnny]

As to Arnold, his father was excommunicated for drunkenness.

I fail to see the relevance as to when God told us that Geo III was no longer anointed and Geo W. was.

[Eduard van Haalen]

You said Arnold was a better Christian.

[robc]

when God told us that Geo III was no longer anointed and Geo W. was.

July 4th, 1776.

Duh.

[robc]

Well, not GW then, but all of us.

Ive mentioned it before, but I have this concept of an essay in my head entitled On Being Caesar.

It relates to taxpaying in a democracy (or democratic republic).

Although O'Rourke already may have written it (from a different direction) with Parliament of Whores (the chapter, not the book).

"The worst off-sloughings of the planet are the ingredients of sovereignty. Every government is a parliament of whores.

The trouble is, in a democracy the whores are us."

[Eduard van Haalen]

"whores are us"

Is that anything like Toys R Us?

[anon]

I need to find that store.

[robc]

The "contradiction" you just created (both the British King and American President is God created authority) is what happens when you take verses out of context.

[anon]

Wait, I thought scripture was created to take out of context.

[robc]

Just because that is the way it is mostly used, doesnt mean that is its purpose.

It could be argued, that is proof of free will.

[Eduard van Haalen]

"Peter and the other apostles replied: "We must obey God rather than human beings!"" Acts 5:29 (NIV)

[Zeb]

Peter, the human being, told us to do that.

[Eduard van Haalen]

"Many of the central values and symbols of New England society were brought under attack directly or indirectly by the Great Awakening, the first expression of Revivalism in American culture. Each of the basic symbols and beliefs that marked the center of New England Puritan culture will be reviewed insofar as they were modified or attacked by the Great Awakening. The consequence of newly emerging symbols and beliefs of Revivalism will be seen as a resource which fed into the growing opposition to Crown and Parliament and helped to mobilize and give structure to widespread unorganized feelings of discontent. Thus Revivalism, along with Puritanism, helped to prepare and sustain an attitude in the American colonies which eventuated in rebellion and revolution."

From "Puritanism, Revivalism, and the [American] Revolution" by Jerald C. Brauer

http://www.religion-online.org.....657&C=1651

[Longtorso, Johnny]

I'm not sure how the role of religion in the Revolution counters the quote saying not to do that sort of thing. New England also burned witches.

[Eduard van Haalen]

"Peter and the other apostles replied: "We must obey God rather than human beings!"" Acts 5:29 (NIV)

But, sure, Christians throughout the ages misinterpreted the Bible until you cleared it all up for them!

[Eduard van Haalen]

"New England also burned witches."

And atheists murdered Kulaks.

[Eduard van Haalen]

"Five years after the Salem witchcraft trials, the Massachusetts legislature passed a resolution that a day of general fasting be held on January 15, 1697. The resolution was adopted so God's people could offer up prayers for God to help them in their errors and keep them from repeating such sins which could only bring God's judgment on the land. Judge Samuel Sewell and those who had served as jurors in the trials all confessed their error and prayed for God's forgiveness and guidance in the future. Indeed, Judge Samuel Sewall, who had presided over many of the capital judgments, published a written confession acknowledging his own "blame and shame."

"Salem village drove out Reverend Samuel Parris for his role in the trials. In 1710, the Massachusetts legislature reversed some of the convictions, and in the following years authorities gave compensation to the families of the accused witches."

http://www.christianity.com/ch.....30180.html

And here are Stalin's proclamations proclaiming a day of prayer and fasting in repentance for killing the Kulaks and starving millions of people, and compensating the victims and their familes:

...

Whoops, couldn't find it.

[Zeb]

Or maybe, just maybe, the Bible is not completely consistent in all ways and actually has contradictory things in it because its various parts were written by different people for different reasons at different times.

[SugarFree]

Or maybe, just maybe, the Bible is not completely consistent in all ways and actually has contradictory things in it because its various parts were written by different people for different reasons at different times.

BURN THE WITCH ZEB! We'll apologize and skip lunch in a few years and that will make it all right that we turned him into a charcoal briquette.

[KPres]

"THIS IS WHAT CHRISTIANS ACTUALLY BELIEVE"

Is it? I thought libertarians understood what revealed preference is. Guess not.

[Enough About Palin]

Xcel Energy weighs exit from Minneapolis under municipal utility