Mitt's Missing Minutes, Fast and Furious Blame, Clint Eastwood Waxes Philosophical: P.M. Links

• With Mitt Romney taking a media battering over his "47percent" comments, conservatives ask questions about a gap in the recording at what could be a crucial spot.

• An internal Justice Department report on the "Fast and Furious" gunrunning scandal doles out healthy servings of blame to the DOJ and the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives.
• Some years into the ongoing economic debacle that is Greece, it occurs to a government official that making it less than impossible to do business in the country might be advisable.
• The U.S. government's war on medical marijuana continues, with ten dispensaries arm-twisted into closing their doors in Colorado, and a raid on a state-sanctioned marijuana farm in Oregon.
• Clint Eastwood sat down with Ellen DeGeneres and touted the leave-people-alone attractions of libertarianism. The audience applauded, instantly persuaded of the merits of tolerance and letting people run their own lives. Yeah … I had you going for a moment.
• Kansas is shy $9 billion to meet its pension obligations, and Texas Republicans battle one another over how — and even whether — pensions should be reformed.
• With tensions rising between Israel and Iran, Palestinians largely shrug the matter off.
• King County, Washington, will have to cough up $300,000 in sanctions after it was caught concealing the violent history of a sheriff's deputy from attorneys representing a man left brain damaged by that officer. Further damages are expected to be forthcoming. Yes, the deputy is still on the payroll.

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Comments

[Fist of Etiquette]

...conservatives ask questions about a gap in the recording at what could be a crucial spot.

Two solid minutes of dirty limericks.

[A Serious Man]

There once was a lawyer named Rex
Who was small in those parts used for sex
When charged with exposure he said with composure:
"De minimus non curat lex".

[db]

A prez candidate, name of Mitt
By recordings helped not a bit
Cried to all who would listen:
"There are two minutes missin'
In that tape--you can all eat my shit!"

[sloopyinca]

Romney/Obama
Is this the best we can do?
Either way we lose

[db]

+ 1 hand clapping

[AlmightyJB]

I'll save you a seat on the ship outta here.

[Rich]

Mother Jones is certainly no Rose Mary Woods.

[sage]

There once was a man named Dave,
Who dug up a whore from her grave.
She was moldy as shit
And missing a tit
But think of the money he saved!

[Killazontherun]

Rimbaud made it sound like such a taboo shattering, spirit quaking thing to do, but fuck one dead body and they brand you a freak for the rest of your life. Le sigh.

[cmace]

There was an old hermit named Dave
Who fucked dead whore in a cave
It sure was stunt to get that cold cunt
But think of the money he saved.

[sage]

Here I sit, cheeks a-flexin'
Giving birth to another Texan

[Eduard van Haalen]

"An internal Justice Department report on the "Fast and Furious" gunrunning scandal doles out healthy servings of blame to the DOJ and the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives."

Another right-wing smear job from the Bush Justice Department, uh, I mean, look over there! Some guy did a YouTube video!

[Tulpa Doom]

The AP headline is "Holder cleared of wrongdoing in Fast and Furious"

[Atanarjuat]

The buck stops down there!

[Killazontherun]

Does Media Matters know about this?

[Fist of Etiquette]

Kansas is shy $9 billion to meet its pension obligations, and Texas Republicans battle one another over how ? and even whether ? pensions should be reformed.

Texas should wait to see how Kansas shakes out before jumping into anything drastic.

[John]

http://thecable.foreignpolicy......ist_attack

Obama administration admits that Benghazi was a terrorist attack and not a protest over the Muhammad film.

[Fist of Etiquette]

I hope in that admission they make sure to take time to refer to the inconsequential film as disgusting.

[Rich]

And emphasize that, since the film was so disgusting that it *could* have precipitated the attack, they are cracking down on those who abuse the First Amendment.

[rac3rx]

Odd, that of all the big film blamers, nobody wants to mention all the grandstanding the Obama folks have been doing about killing Bin Laden. Especially since a lot of these so-called "freedom fighters" (or whatever it is the progs are calling them these days) are yelling a lot of Osama Bin Laden chants out there while they're burning all those dirty painted bedsheets they're calling American flags.

[PapayaSF]

Would it be legal and practical to pass laws that force public pension shortfalls to be paid for by taxes on the groups the pensions are for? E.g., if Kansas teachers' pensions fall short, you tax Kansas teachers to make up for it.

[johnl]

Sounds good.

[sloopyinca]

Cop gets in room alone with student, chokes him out. Injuries are consistent with that of strangulation. Cop not disciplined.

[Night Elf Mohawk]

I'm sure the cop has injuries consistent with his story, right? Right?

[Ted S.]

Nothing else happened.

[Fist of Etiquette]

Yes, the deputy is still on the payroll.

He cost a lot. They want to get their money's worth out of him.

[Dunphy (the real one)]

there's also that pesky problem that he did nothing wrong by tackling that guy

[rts]

Having a roommate is gay, says Statistics Canada

A last-minute discovery forced the agency to hold back some census data on gay and lesbian married couples when they realized they couldn't be certain if some people were hitched or only roommates.

[Pro Libertate]

Is shaking hands a homosexual act? Discuss amongst yourselves.

[Apatheist ?_??]

Depends what's in/on your hands.

[Killazontherun]

No. But no man should submit to another man. Therefore it's off limits. I know this can be a problem for homosexuals but there are ways around prohibition on man to man contact (unless there are punches involved, a no no). Double dildos, ass to ass. And those oral sex guards that they created for cunnilingus in the early nineties can substitute for direct contact. There is no reason that your sexual preference has to prevent you from being a manly man.

[Pro Libertate]

Instead of shaking hands, I punch the guy as hard as I can right in the center of his chest.

That's a good greeting for germaphobes, too.

[Killazontherun]

PL, that is as it should be.

[Archduke Pantsfan]

It's only gay if shower together.

[rts]

"Just friends" spooning.

[Archduke Pantsfan]

It's not gay, c'est tranquil

[A Serious Man]

4th century a Coptic papyrus refers to a wife of Jesus.

So that's why he felt the need to go wandering in the desert for 40 days.

[$park?]

Jesus said to them,
'My wife ....'.

Unfortunately the papyrus was damaged and they lost the part at the beginning where it said 'take' and the end, where it said 'please'.

[A Serious Man]

"Yeshua, you never spend anytime with me anymore, you're always out with those fishermen making wine. And just who is that Mary Magdalene skank that's always following you?! Would it kill you to just tell me you love me and not through parables?"

[MJGreen]

Jesus was a Borat fan millenia before it was mainstream.

[tarran]

Isn't one of the requirements to possess the title Rabbi that the person be married?

[Killazontherun]

I saw a Rabbi who is also was a New Testament scholar point out that there is no reason that the scriptures would refer to Jesus married status, nor his wife. One was just assumed, and the other didn't matter in the context of the works.

[Heroic Mulatto]

Back in the day, it would have been very odd for a religious Jew of breedin' age to not have been married.

[Heroic Mulatto]

Granted though, some sects of the Essenes were made up of celibate men.

[BigT]

No sex for these sects.

[John]

http://dealbook.nytimes.com/20.....tw-nytimes

NYT admits that maybe OWS was just a fad.

[gaijin]

Eliot L. Spitzer, the former New York governor and former attorney general who has been a longtime supporter of Occupy Wall Street...

So, something that hasn't even lived past a one year anniversary can now be claimed as having "long-time supporters" among the political class? What the heck would you call someone who supported a movement that lasted, I dunno, two years?

[rac3rx]

Right-wing extremist.

[Joe M]

has the movement changed the debate over executive compensation or education reform?

Education reform, ha, that's what they call it? "I spent $50,000 I didn't have on a degree in postmodernist puppet-making. I am the 99%."

[sloopyinca]

Wisconsin cop suspended 8 days and reassigned. His offenses included being over an hour late to work 49 times in 6 months and using his squad car as a personal vehicle. Oh, he also missed administrative duty on at least three occasions.

Yeah, most of us could be over an hour late 49 times in six months, which is almost twice a week on average, and keep our jobs. But duncephy wonders why we think pubsec unions are a bad thing.

[T]

The last job where I had to worry about this, I think 4 or 5 times late in six months could get you fired.

[R C Dean]

Goddam, for floor staff in our hospital, its either two or three strikes and you're out. Period, full stop, sayonara.

[Calidissident]

The FACT is that we have agreed to a CONTRACT specifying the due process that we are ENTITLED to before being fired. This makes it hard for the government to fire the heroes that protect our streets. That is a GOOD thing.

[Apatheist ?_??]

Would read again.

[DesigNate]

you capitalized words at the beginning of the sentences AND used punctuation.

I award you only half a dunphy.

[SFC B]

He also didn't include any nonsensical acronyms. It's barely even a quarter-dunphy.

[Atanarjuat]

But duncephy wonders why we think pubsec unions are a bad thing.

Dunfie criticized teachers' unions in the corresponding thread, but made no mention of police unions...

[$park?]

I was a little disappointed yesterday that nobody had taken the time, anywhere that I could find, to comment on the new show Revolution. I watched the first episode and have mixed feelings about how it could go. It at least looked like it will be worth watching another one, maybe two, episodes. But what I really want is validation from all of you that I'm not watching something that is bad for me (not really).

[John]

Someone had a rant on it during the morning links saying how badly it sucked.

[$park?]

Huh, must have been after I did a search on it.

[John]

yesterday morning. I forget exactly where.

[Tulpa Doom]

I actually meant to watch that but forgot. With JJ Abrams, Mr "Throw Spaghetti on the Plot and See What Sticks" behind it you can be sure it's going to suck eventually even if it doesn't yet.

[kinnath]

the reviews were all bad; so I skipped the show

[A Serious Man]

There will never be another Lost, but NBC seems hellbent on replicating that show's success because the rest of its programming sucks.

[Apatheist ?_??]

I watched it and have the same feelings. There are so few good looking new shows and a darth of any good Sci-Fi on tv these days that I figured why the fuck not.

I will say that I am having serious problems suspending my disbelief. I mean we didn't have electricity until very recently. Sure, a lot of people would starve at the outset but come on, society managed before electricity.

[kinnath]

the Amish seems to survive pretty well these days.

[alittlesense]

The Amish also are all over the place when it comes to use of technology. There are sects within the general term "Amish" who use certain technologies but not others. I've known Amish people who have electricity in the barn to power all sorts of farm-related things, but not in the house.

[Tulpa Doom]

Problem is, a lot of the skills for ways of doing things without electricity have gone extinct in the developed world. Yeah, they got along fine in the 1700s without electricity, but that's because the economy was designed to function without electricity and almost everybody learned how to use animals for farmwork and spin cloth by hand, etc, from their parents.

I could totally see society utterly collapsing without electricity.

[T]

Well, the ensuing immediate die off would be a bitch. Keep in mind there's roughly 3 days worth of food in a grocery store at any given time. No electricty, no resupply. Any major metro gets ugly fast.

[Fluffy]

I think the food distribution problems are so extreme that we lose 95% of the population in the first year. More if this happens in March than if it happens in August.

There's a lot of food out there, but it's in the wrong place. And people will fight each other for food before they'll walk 100 miles for food.

The first year is actually the most interesting story, because you'd probably have a total collapse into anarchy, followed by cannibalism, the works. And urbanites trying to find food are likely to destroy a lot of the food production infrastructure in their quest for something to eat (the NYC population would be able to walk far enough, before it died, to wipe out all the dairy cows south of Albany, all the seed potatoes on eastern Long Island, all the chickens in northern New Jersey, etc.) At least if it happens in August, when the city populations start walking they'll find something to eat. If it happens in March, they won't find anything to eat but each other.

On the plus side, if 95% of the population dies in the first year, by year 3 things look pretty good for the survivors. Even without electricity, 15 million people with access to the resources of the entire continental United States, including most of the existing housing, sundries, tools, and libraries, would live pretty well, and much better than is depicted in this show.

[Virginian]

Someone read Dies the Fire.....

[Rod Flash]

"Darth of good Sci-Fi"

I see what you did there. lol.

[Jesus H. Christ]

I won't give JJ Abrams another millisecond of my personal time. Lost was a complete turd sandwich. Abrams is a freaking hack who shouldn't be allowed a youtube account, much less a TV series.

[Tulpa Doom]

At least the Libyans have spirit. We Americans took the Lost finale -- which was just as insulting and degrading -- and said "please missuh, give us s'more!"

[Francisco d Anconia]

Watched it last night. Agree. I'll watch another episode or two and see how it goes. I thought the lighting sucked. Couldn't see shit during the night scenes.

[Tulpa Doom]

Maybe they were trying to be realistic. One episode a month would have a full moon so it might improve.

[John]

http://www.forbes.com/sites/ja.....er-record/

Antarctic sea ice sets record. Ron Bailey call your office.

[Cdr Lytton]

Officer stops group for littering. They surround and taunt her, then taunt and swear at additional responding officers. No one is shot, tazed, arrested, or even ticketed.... you already know what the punch line is.

[Mainer2]

No reports were written about the incident "because no crime was committed," he said.

I'll remember this if I'm ever in Seattle. It's perfectly legal to defy, taunt and swear at a police officer.

[Coeus]

PROFESSIONAL COURTESY means you get to act like gangbanging teenagers well into your 40s, with no fear of repercussion.

[Cdr Lytton]

Let us know how that works out, 'kay? I mean once you wake up from the coma caused by the sudden downward movement to the sidewalk. And after serving your jail time for obstructing a LEO, intimidating a public servant, resisting, etc. too.

[Bobarian]

Why were they picking on Dunphy?

She gets enough abuse here.

[Fist of Etiquette]

An internal Justice Department report on the "Fast and Furious" gunrunning scandal doles out healthy servings of blame to the DOJ and the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives.

Hiding from the public the blame for the real culprit: GUNS! And maybe drugs.

[Apatheist ?_??]

Oh Texas legislature, you truly do suck sometimes.

[T]

Well, they suck less at times (like now) when they aren't in session. Smartest thing Texans ever did was limit the amount of time the Lege can spend in session.

[rac3rx]

But really only for 140 days every 2 years.

[Coeus]

If only we could cut that to 70, or maybe 35 days.

[Scooby]

It was a typo- they intended for it to be 2 days every 140 years.

[A Serious Man]

Ohio woman discover that her late husband was really her father.

Welll that explains why their oldest son is a psychopath that capriciously beheads lords.

[Fist of Etiquette]

That only happens if uncle was the father.

[Warty]

Doylestown! I've been there. No further comment.

[OldMexican]

Ohio woman discover[s] that her late husband was really her father.

This sounds like part of a script for All My Circuits!

Calcutron plays the part of the father/husband!

[PapayaSF]

It's Calculon, you pseudo-fan.

[Auric Demonocles]

You are technically correct.

[Auric Demonocles]

So how could the father potentially not have known? Were the grandparents already dead by the time the couple met?

[Rich]

A Justice Department watchdog recommended that 14 employees be reviewed for possible sanctions in light of a "pattern of serious failures" at the department

Any of the fourteen have the initials E.H.?

[Gray Ghost]

Nope.

In a 471-page report, Inspector General Michael Horowitz referred over a dozen people for possible disciplinary action for their roles in Operation Fast and Furious. The report did not criticize Attorney General Eric Holder.

The report found no evidence that Holder was informed about the operation before Jan. 31, 2011, or that the attorney general was told about the controversial gun-walking tactic employed by the department's Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives.

Well, that's surprising. Guess there's no need now for that pesky executive privilege, right?

[Gray Ghost]

Don't we do the Special Prosecutor thing anymore, or did that, along with Smashing Pumpkins, stop being trendy with the end of the Clinton Administration?

At least the Administration didn't fire this IG. Yet.

[Rich]

Guess there's no need now for that pesky executive privilege, right?

Right.

[sloopyinca]

Multiple choice question: What happens when you take a person who has been suspended because of sexual misconduct and let him go out with a badge and a gun?
A) Citizens hold a parade in his honor and he does a great job.
B) He resigns in disgrace after realizing what he did was criminal and he was lucky not to get thrown in jail.
C) He does the same fucking thing again.

[sloopyinca]

The next poster below this line is a fag.
_________________________

[Fist of Etiquette]

Everything the commenter directly before the above line says is a lie.

[Cdr Lytton]

atfpapic, i'll buy that for a dollar

hth

[Corning]

Neal Armstrong was an overblown Bureaucrat.

[Fist of Etiquette]

...it occurs to a government official that making it less than impossible to do business in the country might be advisable.

They also might want to try some rebranding. The name "Greece" has been pretty tarnished.

[Rich]

I'll submit "Helluva Republic".

[hamilton]

They should hold a naming auction. That way folks have another shot at Maud'Dib.

[sloopyinca]

Question: what's of greater value to libertarians?
A) Giving my daughter a middle name and having the money donated to the Reason Foundation.
B) Renaming Greece and having the money go to some fuckstick streetsweeper that gets 8 vacation weeks a year and a 100% publicly-funded pension after 25 years.

[Bardas Phocas]

Your daughter and Reason Foundation have a future - for Greece, nothing.

[Tulpa Doom]

Dunphy sounds like a nice girl's name.

[Tulpa Doom]

If I bid a lot for that, I need you to promise to send me the video of when you explain to her where her middle name comes from.

[sloopyinca]

I'll be happy to.

[Dunphy (the real one)]

my daughter's second middle name is athena

my son's is ikaika

[VG Zaytsev]

How many middle names does she have?

[sloopyinca]

Well, let's see: First, he and his wife Morgan Fairchild gave the child a middle name. Then there's the one she inherited due to her royal lineage. Of course, one couldn't dis the Hawai'ian royal family, so when they ask to bestow a name on your child, you let them. Ditto when all the boys from Led Zeppelin show up at the christening and think they have a good idea for one as well. Finally, when Hermes himself comes down from Olympus and says the gods have chosen the name Athena, you do what the gods ask.

I know it's not a common problem, but when you've done what he's done, and seen what he's seen and influenced the people he's influenced, well you get the picture...

[Cdr Lytton]

I finally got around to J.D.'s book. It's like HyR commentator fanfic

* spoiler warning! *

drugs, guns and porn topped off with a rape by STEVE SMITH-ish character.

[jdtuccille]

I take that as an endorsement!

[Tulpa Doom]

When Ellen asked him to explain Libertarian views to him, Eastwood said, "Socially liberal, fiscally conservative and government staying out of everyone's lives."

I flerking HATE the "socially liberal, fiscally conservative" formulation. Makes it sound like libertarians are inconsistent, when in fact it's the liberals and conservatives who are (plus, gun rights, eminent domain, and school choice are social issues on which we align with conservatives).

The second part is a little better but leaves you open to pot-shots about how libertarians want govt out of people's lives when their houses are on fire and their kids are starving.

[Romulus Augustus]

I don't know if it is perceived as inconsistent. I know a lot of "moderates" that claim they are this too and wish a major party was. But, as others have pointed out, as soon as one gets to specifics, there's very few who then admit "I guess I'm a libertarian too."

[Calidissident]

Not so sure I'd say we agree with conservatives, or at least all of them, on eminent domain. I'm sure plenty in the "pro-business" community are more than happy that the government has that tool at their disposal.

[T]

Oh, progressives, too. You can't have shiny public facilities leading us into the glorious future of the New Man without eminent domain.

[Xenocles]

Progressives just assume we're happy they let us keep so much.

[Tulpa Doom]

I guess I'm just talking about the rhetoric. Many so-called conservatives aren't fiscal conservatives either.

[Dunphy (the real one)]

in re the king county case, fwiw

(i;m very familiar. we;ve used aspects of it for training)

the courts are absolutely right. KCSO *did* withold negative aspects in dep. paul's background. they lost a suit they should have lost.

and justice was served

in regards to the actual incident. his UOF in that incident was absolutely justified.

he certainly should have faced no discipline (nor did he) for that incident because his actions were well within the bounds imposed by the constitution, case law, WA constitution and their dept. policy. that said, i am glad the county paid out to the guy because it was a CLASSIC "lawful but awful"

as a training issue. many agencies nationwide use cloth badges on outerwear (rain jackets, jackets, sweaters) and on utility type uniforms.

iow, on other than classic Class "A" uniforms, they are common. HUGE mistake and i have argued so for years. agencies are starting to take note. MINE has and changed their policy pursuant to the paul incident. for example, we mandatory the METAL badges even on our jumpsuits. no exceptions.

[Dunphy (the real one)]

the issue is this. we can and do require people to comply with LEO's e.g an order to "stop, police" . there is a reason we wear UNIFORMs and that's so there is consitency in appearance and so there is not a question - is that a cop, security guard, or a ninja dressed in black (redundant i know). in the case of paul et al, his unit wore black uniforms, they did have shouldre patches to their credit, and wore CLOTH badge

unacceptable. and there was some question whether he knew (he can;t be questioned. he's in a coma) it was the police chasing him. the point is, the burden is on law enforcement to make their uniforms RECOGNIZABLE quickly, and at a distance. no cloth badges

and now,WE require them. positive policy change

[Cdr Lytton]

Good on your agency. I see the larger trend though towards subdued "tactical" uniforms some for officer safety, ease of maintenance, and not a little bit for the cool factor. The stats show traffic is more of a danger than shootings where the type of uniform makes much of a difference but no movement towards incorporating ANSI level of reflectivity/conspicuity into everyday uniforms so far. Heck, most of the time when I see officers directing traffic (not just for a stop) they even don't both to pull the vest out of the trunk.

[Cdr Lytton]

Never going to happen on this side of the pond.

Not this either.

[Fluffy]

My modest proposal would be that police departments be required to have 1 (one) standardized uniform and that officers not be allowed to undertake arrests when out of that uniform.

If your department wants cops in bicycling outfits - awesome, but they can only write tickets, they can't make arrests.

You want to have plainclothes detectives - hey, let them take the uniform off for prestige purposes if you want, but they don't get to make any arrests.

Undercover cops? Awesome. Also no arrests.

Off-duty cops should be prohibited from making arrests completely.

It's just not reasonable to expect citizens to obey the commands of assholes dressed in street clothes (or all in black) running down streets at night.

Don't like wearing the uniform? Fuck you, quit. We'll hire one of the 10 fucking thousand junior college lunkheads on the waiting list for your high-paying, high-prestige no-qualifications job.

[Coeus]

It's just not reasonable to expect citizens to obey the commands of assholes dressed in street clothes (or all in black) running down streets at night.

Amen. And when they don't, judges and prosecuters pretend that they were ignorant and wrongheaded for not doing so.

It is absolutely infuriating, especially when people are still getting fucked up and killed for "contempt of cop" on a regular basis.

[Dunphy (the real one)]

judges prosecutors and JURIES (amazing the way they get left out) routinely determine that the person should have made that recognition. it's not just that they think they were ignorant. they may also believe they are lying.

and people are getting killed by cops exceedingly rarely. i;'ve provided the stats

i've also provided the stats that show very common factors with those killed.

overwhelmingly disproportionately present such as high on meth, prior convicted felon, outstanding warrants

the people killed are nowhere NEAR even;y spread across demographics. that does not support your analysis. it supports mine. convicted felons, those high on meth, these with priors for violent crimes and assault on cops don't have special kinds of vision, yet they OVERWHELMINGLY disproportionately get shot by cops

hmmm

[Coeus]

Do I really need to point out all the logic errors in that post, or will you come back to look at it in a few hours and before you take the next pill?

[Dunphy (the real one)]

there is no more logical error than when people point to a subjective DOJ report they never read as proof that SPD has a force problem

[Coeus]

there is no more logical error than when people point to a subjective DOJ report they never read as proof that SPD has a force problem

Actually it would be a completely different type of logical error, but since you have made clear you believe it is one, it's nice to see you admit that you intentionally argue dishonestly.

[Fluffy]

judges prosecutors and JURIES (amazing the way they get left out) routinely determine that the person should have made that recognition.

I don't care what juries find.

By definition to me, if the person is not in an identifiable uniform I should not be obligated to obey their commands, and I am entitled to assume that anyone pursuing me is a nefarious actor.

And if the local department doesn't use 1 (one) standardized uniform, that means none of the officers are in an identifiable uniform.

[Coeus]

and I am entitled to assume that anyone pursuing me is a nefarious actor.

That would make sense if your safety was important, but we all know that officer safety is paramount.

[Dunphy (the real one)]

then you should go serve on some juries

remember, they are the ultimate finders of fact

[Dunphy (the real one)]

well that still doesn't answer the question as to what is or isn't an "identifiable uniform"

the metro uniforms, which i have seen many times at day and night are imo quite identifiable

your last statement is somewhat irrelevant to KCSO ...

KCSO is one umbrella agency controlling a # of others. that's because they, on a contract basis provide policing for OTHER govt. bodies.

these are esentially DIFFERENT agencies and they are supposed to look differnt, just like seattle and redmond look difference.

officers assigned to metro, which is like a city into itself have different uniforms than those who work airport firerescue/police vs. those that work sound transit vs. those that work the city of burien.

that's GOOD. and it's what people in respective communities REQUESTED - that their own 'agency' have a unique look.

KCSO, like many other agencies primarily accomplishes this with diferent patches, color schemes (most cities wear blue), vehicle striping, etc.

would you expect redmond PD and bellevue to have the same uniform?

[sloopyinca]

And those uniforms, and their vehicles as well, should have to be Hi-Vis orange and yellow. If officer safety is so important to them, they should be happy to stick out like a sore thumb, right?

[Dunphy (the real one)]

that's nice, but unworkable. a happy medium is nice.

cops in the summer gotta wear shorts on the bicycle. marine unit guys need WISHA etc. compatible gear. pilots need flight stuff. motorcycle guys (for safety) get boots and special jacket. i think we can compromise. but WHATEVER the uniform, it needs to be very amply marked. recall back in the day, the sheriff might ONLY have a badge. that;'s it. no special shirt or gunbelt.

and people out of uniform or in nontraditional uniform ARE discouraged to make arrests, and extra rules apply

in 20 yrs, i have made 2 off duty arrests.in both cases, i had badge and ID.

1) guy stealing a surfboard . man, was that surfer stoked
2) women hitting another woman with a bat

that's it.

i'll ignore your ridiculous last sentencfe attack. you know damn well i think this job requires immense skills, develops lots of others, and imo is as prestigious a job as 99% of others out there

we are just going to have to disagree.

if you are referring to the instance case, they had WELL identified uniforms. i;ve seen them.

i see metro cops all the time downtown. that;s an argument the defense can make. i don;t buy it

[Fluffy]

To become a Massachusetts state trooper you need to have a GED and you need to pass their entrance examination, which is a SEE SPOT RUN level examination.

It's a good thing they require you to be 21, because if they didn't I could have met their requirements by taking the GED test when I was 9.

http://www.mass.gov/eopss/law-.....ation.html

[Dunphy (the real one)]

but yet, the overwhelming majority of applicants who have same do not get in

you can become CEO of a company with no high school degree

the minimum requirement may be - 21, citizen and that's it

it doesn't therefore follow they have low standards.

they can still be immensely selective from that group

in this environment, we are getting well over 150 applicants per position we fill

that's pretty fucking selective

[Coeus]

Oh, it's selective all right, just not the way you make it out to be.

A US man has been rejected in his bid to become a police officer for scoring too high on an intelligence test.
Robert Jordan, a 49-year-old college graduate, took an exam to join the New London police, in Connecticut, in 1996 and scored 33 points, the equivalent of an IQ of 125.
But New London police interviewed only candidates who scored 20 to 27, on the theory that those who scored too high could get bored with police work and leave soon after undergoing costly training.
Mr Jordan launched a federal lawsuit against the city, but lost.
The 2nd U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals in New York upheld a lower court's decision that the city did not discriminate against Mr Jordan because the same standards were applied to everyone who took the test.

Linky

[Coeus]

That's right, 125. A score I would submit is considerably lower than the average long-term poster here, and it's considered to smart for a cop.

[Dunphy (the real one)]

we've been commenting and laughing at that case for YEARS.

fwiw, i purposefully answered a few questions wrong on my SBinet as i noted here before, due to that incident.

[Atanarjuat]

as prestigious a job as 99% of others out there

Yep, writing traffic tickets is just as prestigious as being a physics professor, geologist, heart surgeon, judge, fighter pilot, chemical engineer, mountain rescue rock climber, artist, nuclear technician, pro athlete, ship captain, or CEO.

[Dunphy (the real one)]

that you would think our job is writing tickets shows your bias and ignorance. that's like me saying a doctor is just a guy who writes prescriptions

[Atanarjuat]

Ok, I admit I made the most bland part of your job sound like it was the whole job for rhetorical effect. Your job is much more than that. It is writing tickets and shooting dogs. There, happy?

[Atanarjuat]

^Troll-o-meter ranking, pls.

[Dunphy (the real one)]

yes. it's one of the "paramilitary aspects " of law enforcement i've LONG criticized

it's a mistake. uniforms should be very recognizable as such. change can be made. we made it

a lot of the oldtimers HATE the new jumpsuits and stuff. the new kids love it

cops love toys and they love dressing up. so what? our responsibility to the public means we need to take strong diligent stance on this imnsho

also, we are required to wear the yellowishgreen (most visible color according to studies. london metro been using them for years) vests. we can get written up if directing traffic at a scene etc. and don't have one on

i agree about the visibility. when we got jumpsuits authorized , we PATROL had to force the issue. they didn't want the big POLICE on the back in bright reflective letters. we insisted . they relented

because yea, in cases where uniform MATTERs (like traffic)for visibility it's better

and also, if i am searching through a backyard at oh dark 30, for the bad guy who just ran that way, and the homewoner looks through the window (and almost ceretainly armed around here) i want him to see that i am a COP no doubt. i want himt o shoot the burglar or nobody. but not me

cops are stubborn and they like the paramilitary look. this isn't the fucking marines.

cheers

[Coeus]

the issue is this. we can and do require people to comply with LEO's e.g an order to "stop, police" .

And do you require punishment as well? Cause he did comply, as shown on video tape.

As Harris slowed to a stop, Paul delivered a hit to Harris' chest, slamming him into the concrete wall outside the Cinerama theater at Fourth Avenue and Lenora Street. A surveillance camera captured the incident. Harris is seen raising his hands before he is hit by Paul.

This guy's life was destroyed for contempt of cop. Pure and simple.

[Dunphy (the real one)]

nope. i've mapped out the LONG pursuit. he was suspected of a violent bloody assault, thus likely armed/dangerous. witness pointed him out. cops told him to stop, he ran. a LONG way. once he got to the theater and he was kind of boxed in, he DID stop and start raising his hands.

the operative question, and the one answered in the cops favor was given the factors known to the cop at the time

1) violent crime suspect
2) refuses to stop and leads them on long pursuit
3) stops right next to crowd getting out of theatre
4) unknown if armed (but again, violent crime)

... given that.., is it REASONABLE for the officer to continue forward and strike the guy in a essential tackle across the upper torso.

answer: absolutely

the cop COULD have tried to deescalate. but he had no legal burden to. what if he stopped. does he draw his gun (note the crowd).

if he doesn't and he orders the guy to comply, and the guy now runs towards the crowd, what does the officer do?

if turns and starts to run again, the officer then must give chase again (if other direction)

if he draws, then he is fucked in his options. he needs to reholster before going hands on

now his backup did arrive within about 1 minute iirc, so they had more force options (like cover with gun one officer and contact 2nd officer).

[Dunphy (the real one)]

regardless, the question to the jury was given the fact pattern presented, was the tackle REASONABLE

imo, yes. in fact, arguably the best tactics (known at th etime, obviously the coma from a result analusis meant it was not a good choice)

fron a UOF continuum analysis- good job.

lawful but awful. and im glad the county paid compensation

and enough said on that, since we went over this one when it happened

[Coeus]

nope. i've mapped out the LONG pursuit. he was suspected of a violent bloody assault, thus likely armed/dangerous. witness pointed him out. cops told him to stop, he ran. a LONG way.

You keep emphasizing LONG. I get it. He made them run a long way. He then obviously deserved it, right?

the cop COULD have tried to deescalate. but he had no legal burden to.

Why is this standard only applied to cops by you? Adams had no legal burden to deescalate or wait for cops when the "undercover" was trespassing and refused to leave his property either, and we all know how you feel about him.

[Dunphy (the real one)]

if and when you can respond rationally

1) nobody said anything about deserved. this is your constant strawman

2) this standard does NOT only apply to cops. again, that's your fantasy.

you just constantly insert that when its factually incorrect

[Coeus]

1) nobody said anything about deserved. this is your constant strawman

Try re-reading that and see where I said "deserved".

2) this standard does NOT only apply to cops. again, that's your fantasy.

Your opinion is that adams should have waited for other cops and deescalated the situation and his shooting was therefore justified when he had no legal obligation to do so.

A standard you apply in reverse in this case. How is that my fantasy?

[Dunphy (the real one)]

"Try re-reading that and see where I said "deserved"

quote: He then obviously deserved it, right?

that's what you said. right there.
as for your last part, that's NOT my opinion.

so in two statements immediately in a row you misrepresented or misunderstood or both what i said.

try reading what i wrote again. it has NOTHING to do with your restatement of it.

i am honestly confused. i really can't determine if you really are this bad at reading comprehension or if you just have no desire to converse fairly.

but it gets old either way.

[Coeus]

1) nobody said anything about deserved. this is your constant strawman

Since we had never talked about the first case before, your use of constant indicated to me that you were referring to the Adam's case where apparently everyone but you felt that you stated that he deserved what happened to him (not sure how to characterize it otherwise, but oh well) so I purposely didn't use it there.

If you don't feel that a paragraph explaining how what a guy did was wrong followed by a statement that what was done to him was reasonable, we've got some strange definitions going on here. The only thing I can think of is that stating that someone acted unreasonably and "it's his own fault" and "he deserved it" are two distinctly different judgments in your mind (also referencing the Adam's case here).

I hate to break it to you, but most other people don't make a distinction there (I'm not even sure what it would be, mens rea, perhaps? Or something similar?). I would think that your many years of dealing with the public would make you aware of that fact.

And good job dodging, once again, your "legally required" double-standard.

[sloopyinca]

the courts are absolutely right. KCSO *did* withold negative aspects in dep. paul's background. they lost a suit they should have lost.

Um, nice try asshole. They never "lost" a case. They settled for $10M, and a reason for that amount was the evidence produced. They didn't produce what the court required, which is criminal by the way, and are now subject to further damages.

Also, you just prove every time you post on here how little you care about justice. When the most corrupt department west of Chicago (just ask the DOJ or either of the outside organizations tasked with investigating their UOF investigation process) deliberately hides information regarding an incident that results in a man, innocent of any wrongdoing by the way, ending up a vegetable, you say everything looks fine. Yeah, I guess it does.

Funny that you call me and some others on here children and bigots because we question the brutality, duplicity and overall malevolence that happens in law enforcement on a daily basis in America, when you are the one that petulantly stomps your feet and cries, "policy and procedures were followed," when we don't know that they were because the officers involved either changed their stories of his evidence in public (let alone what transpired in the closed-door investigations).

You are a filthy enabling scumbag of a human being and the sooner cops like you are gone, the sooner America will begin to see justice.

DIE. IN. A. FIRE.

[Archduke Pantsfan]

Today's Champions League results also pleased me.

[Ted S.]

But Bar?a won.

[A Serious Man]

Mother outraged and mortified after Dish network cuts from an airing of Lilo and Stitch to a hardcore pornographic movie in front of her children.

[Archduke Pantsfan]

Nougars?

What the hell man?

[Rich]

Really!

That is RACIST!

[A Serious Man]

That makes zero sense unless she has money.

[Fluffy]

So does this mean I can go out to public places, point at people, and shout, "Look at those damn nougars over there!"

[Auric Demonocles]

Thirty to twenty isn't a thing.

[Auric Demonocles]

Unless "thing" means "fun boning".

[Caleb Turberville]

Hey, Blonde! You know what you are?! JUST A DIRTY SON OF A B....

[Archduke Pantsfan]

and the NHL cancels the entire preseason.

[Dr. Frankenstein]

So they're going straight to the playoffs this year?

[Archduke Pantsfan]

One big knockout tournament!

[Brett L]

How is this different? Everybody makes the playoffs anyways.

[OldMexican]

Some years into the ongoing economic debacle that is Greece, it occurs to a government official that making it less than impossible to do business in the country might be advisable.

Proof that governing is an ongoing process of discovery and knowledge - just a tad behind flatworms when it comes to the speed it happens.

[Red Rocks Rockin]

With Mitt Romney taking a media battering over his "47percent" comments, conservatives ask questions about a gap in the recording at what could be a crucial spot.

Leaving that out was weapons-grade stupid, considering the pearl-clutching that occured over Breitbart's Sherrod video.

Even if it turns out to be nothing more than Mittens singing "I Feel Pretty," now Mother Jones looks like it had something to hide.

Not that there was anything necessarily wrong with what he said in the released clip, just that the left is using this whole thing as a pretext for it's Limpout Du Jour.

[Greg83]

Yeah, but they largely control the narrative.

[Tulpa Doom]

The AP headline about Mitt's speech yesterday? "Romney tries to change the subject"

Yes. Unemployment is over 8% even in the govt-fudged stats, we're approaching a fiscal cliff at the end of the year, and we can't defend our own embassies from all those YouTube videos out there... and Romney's the one changing the subject.

[Greg83]

Is it just me, or are the cops in Washington state particularly bad? It seems like I hear about a grievous incident every couple of months.

[Caleb Turberville]

According to established background, Martin Crane
worked Seattle vice and homicide. So, was Marty a pig?

Wasn't there an episode where he admitting perjuring himself in court about properly mirandizing a suspect?

[Dunphy (the real one)]

this is sarcasm right?

it's a sitcom.

if it was supposed to be funny, i guess a ha ha is in order

again look at the stats. much like shakira's hips, they don't lie

IF there was a force problem out here in the wild wild west would it not be reflected in stats?

compare SPD's shooting rate or UOF rate to similar cities across the nation

SPD- favorable

that is simply an irrefutable fact.

[sloopyinca]

It's not just you, Greg. The DOJ investigated them and raked them over the coals. as did two independent investigators they brought in to look at their UOF investigsative processes.

UI guess it doesn't help when people tasked with correcting the system are beating the shit out of their wives.

Seattle area police are probably the most corrupt on the west coast. They make the LAPD look like a bunch of pikers.

[Dunphy (the real one)]

it's you. but it's understandable considering selection bias

for example, does the city of seattle average more or fewer use of forces per contact than the national average?

answer: less. and i've posted the study that proves it

does seattle PD have a higher cop homicide rate than comparable cities of its size

no

again, if you look at stats, there is no basis. if you want to cherry pick cases, especially when most of those cases are early stage allegations, otoh

the DOJ did recently determine via their subjective analysis that SPD has an institutional force problem

great

have you read the report? what was the methodology?

etc

people here don't trust DOJ analysis vis a vis terrorism threat for example, but when a subjective report comes to a conclusion they WANT to hear, that's a different story.

i've worked as a cop here and in two other states. WA is doing just fine

if not, provide evidence.

[sloopyinca]

for example, does the city of seattle average more or fewer use of forces per contact than the national average?

Who knows? They have been cited for manipulating the data by multiple agencies (and not just the DOJ, shithead).

does seattle PD have a higher cop homicide rate than comparable cities of its size

Please see above

have you read the report? what was the methodology?

Their methodology was actually pretty sound. It had a lot of whistleblower information reported and the statistics were way out of whack with regard to national averages (IRT % of UOF's sent to IAD, sent to grand juries or sent to CRB)

i've worked as a cop here and in two other states. WA is doing just fine

Anecdotal evidence is hardly proof of anything beyond your personal experience.

if not, provide evidence.

I do all the time, and your only response is to call me a bigot and a child, followed immediately by you running away and avoiding the cases at hand.

Face it, you have no credibility on here, dumbshit. You're a joke of a libertarian and a joke of a human being. You care more about the letter of the law, or policy, than any spirit of justice and you should drive your cruiser off the nearest cliff when you return to duty.

[Dunphy (the real one)]

greg, i also suggest you look into these "grievous incidents" after the dust has settled, recordings are seen, DNA recovered, witnesses interviwed.

the only bad shoot i recall in recent memory was williams'.. the woodcarver

[Archduke Pantsfan]

You ever take a dump made you feel like you'd just slept for twelve hours?

[protefeed]

I flerking HATE the "socially liberal, fiscally conservative" formulation.

"Socially tolerant, fiscally responsible" is better.

[R C Dean]

Howsabout "socially apathetic, non-thieving"?

[Dunphy (the real one)]

it's got a beat and i can dance to it .

i give it a 9

[Dr. Frankenstein]

Oil drops to lowest in 6 weeks. Let me be the first to say damn you speculators.

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/.....nance.html

[Skip]

Did Letterman slobber on Obama's knob last night as badly as I am guessing he did? The guy makes zero jokes about Obama. I remember him ragging on Clinton so its obviously not a Democrat/Republican thing but a "can't criticize black politicians" thing

[Pro Libertate]

So I'm listening to First Man, the authorized biography for Neil Armstrong, on my commute, and it suddenly popped in my head that Armstrong had several jobs post-Moon landing, which means he likely had a r?sum?.

National Aeronautics and Space Administration
Commander, Apollo 11
July 16 - July 24, 1969

* Was responsible for all aspects of commanding the crew of the Apollo 11 mission to the Moon.
* Piloted and landed the lunar module, Eagle, at Tranquility Base.
* Provided public relations support for NASA by drafting and delivering a short speech to approximately one billion people, as well as shooting video and still photography.
* Took one small step for a man, one giant leap for all mankind.
* Performed numerous experiments on the surface of the Moon and gathered some rocks for further analysis.
* Successfully managed the safe return of the Columbia capsule to Earth.

[Fluffy]

Did his resume include a Mailbox Security Specialist position?*

*I have no idea what this joke means but I see continual references here to Neil Armstrong and mailbox destruction so I figured I'd take a shot.

[Pro Libertate]

Sloopy claims to have vandalized Neil Armstrong's mailbox.

[Coeus]

On multiple occasions.

[sloopyinca]

Bullshit. I was attempting to help it attain a Low Earth Orbit.

You guys make me out to be some kind of monster.

[Pro Libertate]

Monster is a strong word. Traitor to all that's decent and good in the world, perhaps?

[A Serious Man]

*Demonstrated great discipline and self-control in not kicking the shit out of the punk who vandalized my mailbox once I got back to Earth.

[Pro Libertate]

Mailboxes aside, I was just stunned thinking about how awesome that is on your resume.

In reality, I'm sure he didn't list it that way--probably just said he was an astronaut with NASA. Though he could've left that out altogether--not like many people didn't know who he was.

[A Serious Man]

His work on Gemini 8 should automatically qualify him for any position in any field. No interview required, just put down "I prevented Gemini 8 from burning up during re-entry and saved the lives of myself and the crew."

[Pro Libertate]

With a reference from Dave Scott. Just one line: "Neil saved my ass."

[Xenocles]

One bullet:

* Went to the fucking Moon.

[Archduke Pantsfan]

And you want to be my latex salesman?

[Xenocles]

Doesn't matter. The. Moon.

[Tulpa Doom]

"If you could put a man on the moon, why can't you wrestle the contract for the condom factory away from H.R. Pennypacker's latex company?"

[Pro Libertate]

Could just have a picture of his footprint.

[R C Dean]

I suspect if you're Neil Armstrong, you don't have a resume because you don't need a resume to get a job.

Or, if you do, its one sentence.

"Yeah, that Neal Armstrong."

[Pro Libertate]

Yeah, I was thinking that, too, but Armstrong was notorious for not trading off of his fame very much. I can see him applying and not bringing it up at all. Not that he had to, but still.

[Pro Libertate]

I also assume that all or most of his post-landing jobs were offers without him seeking them out.

[NoTalentAssclown]

Watch out fellow Reasonids, owning anarchist literature may get you in front of a grand jury http://thesoundandnoise.com/20.....ing-books/

[T]

Back when I was but a callow young paratrooper, the MPs were giving some briefing about how subversive literature like The Anarchist Cookbook might be a sign the servicemember in question was a security risk. I pointed out to the MP that AAFES was selling copies in the main base exchange. He refused to believe me until I had one of my guys go get my copy with the AAFES price tag still attached. The idea that reading/owning the wrong books makes you dangerous dates back to about 5 minutes after Gutenberg.

[Xenocles]

Back at the Academy weapon-sized knifes were supposedly forbidden on the grounds but they sold Ka-Bars in the student store.

[Killazontherun]

Do they have anything on these two to link them to the May Day vandalism?

BTW, she is extremely cute. I'd let her get away with murder if I were her jurist.

http://25.media.tumblr.com/tum.....o1_500.jpg

[Fluffy]

"...Well, being a libertarian is kinda like being an anarchist, you know...

[Archduke Pantsfan]

My IKEA opens Nov 28.

[T]

What, did Winnipeg have a shortage of particle board?

[Archduke Pantsfan]

Now we have no more excuse to go to Minneapolis!

[Coeus]

This article's a textbook case of bullshit false equivalency:

Cops have fewer rights than criminals.

See if you can find any new arguments that haven't been demolished on this board a thousand times already.

[tigtow]

I think I see Jumping Jack Flash in the house over there.

http://www.WorldAnon.tk

[Coeus]

Cincinati PD switches to deploying tasers to the back of the suspect instead of the front.

Now why would they do that. Oh, right, here it is:

While Cincinnati police Chief James Craig says no deaths have resulted from the use of stun guns by Cincinnati police, he has said that a scientific study indicating Taser electronic stun guns can cause cardiac arrest and death concerned him. As a result, the city's police and law departments reviewed the city's policy and made the changes.

[T]

Because electric shock depends on orientation of the victim? That's a new one.

[Coeus]

No, but application of the electrodes near the heart can cause a shock that leads to cardiac arrest. I believe the term is "electrocution".

[Dunphy (the real one)]

and i have yet to see a autopsy report that shows that a heart was electrocuted into stopping not one T

people hearts stop sometimes (see len bias or jim fixx) . in the population we deal with ,,, much more likely to be on heavy stimulants and.or polydrug, obese, malnutrition (not mutually exclusive), undiagnosed heart condition, etc. it's even more common GIVEN a high stress encounter and prolonged exertion.

i once had a guy whose heart stopped . this is before tasers . we wrestled him but took about 5 minutes of serious rasslin' before we got him cuffed up. when we turned him over he was purple.

THANK GOD he got revived.

and of course we found a syringe in his pocket. shocker

there is a lot of controversy about "excited delirium". i suggest people do their own research, multiple sources and then draw their own conclusion

i was skeptical for many years. but i am now convinced

the way the darts work, it is not possible and again, i have yet to see one autopsy report that shows a heart got blasted with electricity during a tasing

my mind is TOTALLY open if i see some autopsies etc. where that was shown to have happened
cheers

[Coeus]

and i have yet to see a autopsy report that shows that a heart was electrocuted into stopping not one T

That is a bald-faced lie. I showed you a coroner's report stating just that. It wasn't easy to find either. I shouldn't have wasted my time, since you then immediately moved the goalposts.

there is a lot of controversy about "excited delirium". i suggest people do their own research, multiple sources and then draw their own conclusion

Might that be because it's blamed for almost every in-custody death not involving a bullet hole that can't be ruled a suicide?

the way the darts work, it is not possible

Chicago PD as well as numerous medical personnel disagree with you.

my mind is TOTALLY open if i see some autopsies etc. where that was shown to have happened

Bullshit.

[Dunphy (the real one)]

dood it's not a lie because i don't remember, but if there is an autopsy out there showing a heart got zapped, i would love to be wron. it means i learned something
if you have it, post it again and i'll bookmark it.

i'd be stoked. i can get my ER doc friend to check it out. he's wicked smaht and has apple

[Coeus]

Just to show others since, despite your protestations, you are a lost cause.

"These include the placement of the barbs over the cardiac axis, the penetration of the barbs deeply into a thin chest wall directly over the heart, absence of intervening clothing and more than one cycle of electrical stimulation.

"Additionally, the initial cardiac rhythm of ventricular fibrillation is consistent with findings seen in cases of electrocution," Christensen wrote.

There. Now hitch up those goalposts in preparation.

[Fluffy]

You do realize that it's absolutely insane to claim that it's "not possible" for a device that only is useful in the first place because it produces convulsions to have cardiovascular impacts on its targets?

People who get tased lose muscle control to convulsions and often lose consciousness.

In any other context, if someone suffered an electric shock that caused convulsions and unconsciousness, and then shortly thereafter suffered cardiac arrest, no one would even question that the two were related. There is a deliberate effort to deny a connection in the case of tasers because police want to continue to use them. (It's pretty much exactly the same as the way mercury magically stopped being dangerous once environmentalists wanted everyone to use mercury light bulbs.)

[Dunphy (the real one)]

of course they are related.

we were talking about the current actually running across the heart and shocking it into stopping, or fibrillation for that matter

of course it can have cardiovascular impacts

so can running up a flight of stairs

[DesigNate]

Fuck youFreedom From Religion

(I'm not a Tennessee fan by any stretch of the imagination, but it pisses me off when people try to bully a school into doing something.)

[Coeus]

I'm siding with the cops on this one.

DALLAS ? The family of a Dallas woman who tried to call 911 and was later found slain inside her home has filed a lawsuit over the handling of her case.

Attorneys for the relatives of Deanna Cook filed a federal civil rights lawsuit against the city of Dallas and others Wednesday. The suit alleges that police were late responding to the call and relied on inexperienced officers who didn't properly investigate.

Cook called 911 on Aug. 17, and the call center sent two officers to her home. Police say it wasn't made clear there was an emergency. Officers knocked on the door, received no response and left.

Two days later, Cook's family found her dead in her bathtub. Her ex-husband is charged with murder.

[Dunphy (the real one)]

greg83. feel free to read the DOJ report. they claim, according to their criteria (subjective) that the SPD has a force problem

are you going to believe their subjective analysis or are you (like me) going to require a look at their report to check their logic?

also, if SPD has an instiutional problem, it shouild be reflected in aggregate stats.

higher officer shooting rates than comparable cities

higher uses of force

is that the case with SPD?

no

http://seattletimes.com/html/l.....ce08m.html

the others here will not provide ANY stats that contradict what i am saying

i am fully ready to believe DOJ if and when i get access to reading their analysis. i have been unable to find the report online

what i do KNOW is that SPD uses force less oftenthan comparable cities. at all levels

that's fact, not rhetoric

http://seattletimes.com/html/l.....ce08m.html

[Dunphy (the real one)]

he report, citing a 2007 Bureau of Justice Statistics national study, says that less than 1 percent of all interactions between officers and members of the public result in force being used. Seattle's use-of-force rate dropped from 0.18 percent of all police contacts in 2006 to 0.12 percent in 2009, which the report says "is less than one-fifth of the national rate."

Police use force infrequently.
Despite what is shown on television and in movies, national studies reveal that less than 1% of
all interactions between police officers and the public involve the use of force.1 To do their jobs,
police officers rely on the public's compliance, which they gain 99% of the time. In Seattle, the
use of force rate has declined over the last three years going from 0.18% in 2006 to 0.12%
in 2009. This is less than one-fifth of the national rate.
Even in making arrests, police use of force is rare.
Arrests are the type of police-public contact where one would expect force to be used most
often. One study of adult custody arrests in six police agencies found that 98% of arrests
occurred without any police use of a weapon.2 In Seattle, the rate of force use relative to arrests
went from 3.3% in 2006 to 2.4% in 2009. This means that Seattle police officers accomplish
arrests without any use of force over 97% of the time.
Most often, police officers use force at the lowest end of the force spectrum.

[Dunphy (the real one)]

A study by the International Association of Chiefs of Police (IACP) found that physical (bodily)
force (which is at the lowest level of force options available to officers) was the type of force
used by police officers in 87% of use of force incidents.3 In contrast, firearms were reportedly
used in 5% of force incidents. In Seattle in 2009, officers used their own bodies (i.e., hits,
kicks, etc.) in 78% of use of force incidents and used firearms in 0.6% of such incidents.4
In the majority of incidents when police use force, those subjected to force are
not injured.
Nationally, about 15% of those who experience force by police are injured.5 In Seattle, 6.3% of
use of force subjects sustain injuries, with major injuries limited to 0.8% of the subjects.6
Most use of force subjects in Seattle sustain either no injuries (31%) or minor injuries such as
scrapes or scratches (62%).

[Dunphy (the real one)]

The racial characteristics of use of force subjects are similar to those of persons
arrested by SPD officers. A frequent comparison in use of force studies looks at the
similarities between persons arrested and subjects of force use. This is because arrest
situations are likely to be the most common types of police contacts when force may be
used. Since arrestees are the most likely use of force subjects, arrest statistics are more
appropriate and more reliable than general population data for assessing those to whom
force is applied.
The comparison of SPD use of force subjects and arrestees in 2009 is shown below.

(refer to picture in original link)

http://seattletimes.nwsource.c.....428396.pdf

[Coeus]

My opinion on the feminist quest for a "sensitive man" has now been verified by feminists. It's nice to see them catch up to reality, even if the effect will be fleeting. They're already rationalizing their distaste.

[Sy]

I see dunphy's already shit all over this thread.

[Dunphy (the real one)]

sorry, if i provided actual stats to contradict the unsupported assertion that pac NW cops have a UOF problem

that sucks, i know. i mean it would be so much nicer if people would just accept absurd statements without any evidence whatsoever. can't we just get along?

[Coeus]

sorry, if i provided actual stats to contradict the unsupported assertion that pac NW cops have a UOF problem

Then you shouldn't be sorry, since you didn't.

[sloopyinca]

You provided numbers. It's hard to call them stats since every investigation into the SPD has shown that they do not properly report UOF incidents, that they mishandle (intentionally in most cases) the investigations to determine UOF was necessary and classify UOF's incorrectly.

Seriously, shitheel. How do you call something stats when the people collecting them have been called out for their lack of institutional control and integrity when cases are brought to their attention?

You know what? The Iranians keep stats that say zero Jews died in the Holocaust. Would you call them accurate or reliable? The same could be asked about those kept by the fucking SPD.

[Coeus]

Thanks for that. I should have bolded the word "actual" in the quote to make it clearer. One of those things that seems obvious in your head but isn't on the page.

[sloopyinca]

My wife loves me dearly, but she's sitting next to me wondering aloud why I put myself through this exercise on such a regular basis.

It's like arguing with a brick wall. It refuses to yield and is incapable of moving its position in any direction.

[Coeus]

"That didn't sound right; In the beginning, it matters that you have something to hang onto. A specific ideology to defend, right? Taming unchecked aggression -- that was my personal favorite. Other guys like `Live free or die.' But you do it because you're trained to do it, you're encouraged to, and ultimately... you get to like it."

[Sy]

No one gives a shit about your long-winded tirades about UOF, policy, procedures, etc. Every fucking time a blatant civil rights violation gets reported here, you show up to give everyone the impression that you're "one of the good guys" and that it's far from routine. Then you go dig up some generic link to some shitty forum's home page and start pulling random statistics and obscure court cases out of your ass to justify cops killing and terrorizing people, praying to God that no one checks your sources.
A government employee pulling government-created "data" that clears government employees of wrong-doing? I'm shocked, SHOCKED that you would cite a 3-year old report comprised SOLELY of Bureau of Justice/Dept of Justice-collected data to refute a point no one's making.
No one gives a shit that you can find evidence to prove police brutality isn't on the rise. What most of us care about is that number is not zero.

Every time I read one of your lame ass over-compensating retaliatory jack-off fests of a post, I die a little inside because I know that troll or not, there are people out there just like you, and you'll continue to be blind to the atrocities committed by your kind, and you'll continue to apply different standards to your own. You (and every other person straining for excuses for your profession's abominable record) are antithetical to a free and just society.

Fuck off

[sloopyinca]

Did I miss the tazer conversation above? Well, sorry about this, but here's something to consider: if you taze someone 15 times, some of them up to 28 seconds, your victim is likely to die.

FTA: Results of Neill's autopsy show he died of cardiac dysrhythmia, or abnormal heartbeat.

Lancaster County Coroner Dr. Stephen Diamantoni has said his office could not determine what caused the cardiac dysrhythmia. There was no alcohol or illicit drugs in Neill's system, according to a toxicology screening.

Somebody needs to see if this coroner has a fucking medical license.