Charter Schools Are Forcing Us to Compete, Michigan Superintendent Whines

A bill to lift the cap on certain types of charter schools in Michigan is headed to the Gov. Rick Snyder's desk for approval today. University-sponsored charters (and online charters!) will be unlimited by 2015. Michigan currently has 255 charters and some pretty long waiting lists. 

Unsurprisingly, Michigan public schools superintendent Rob Glass is displeased. Because all these new schools mean that his schools won't keep getting the same amount of money for doing the same thing forever. Unfair!

"We might see a fundamental shift that takes us where we may never see where we are today again," he said at a well-attended school board meeting Thursday night at the Doyle Center. "We have to think about how we're going to compete in this new landscape."…

The changes will also dilute the funding available to districts and force them to jockey with new competitors for those dollars, Glass argued.

"We'll now have to enter these markets, not because it's where what we want to do, but just to retain the resources we have," he said.

More Reason on charter schools.

Steven Brill talks with Reason.tv about the joys of choice:

Comments

[sarcasmic]

You mean public schools will have to compete instead of having a monopoly?

The horror!

[Pips]

Well, they will have to start offering church services to compete since our tax dollars are effectively paying for both.

[sarcasmic]

I'd rather tax dollars go to a religious school that actually teaches the children useful information than to some liberal indoctrination camp that only caters to their feelings.

[Pips]

durka durka

[sarcasmic]

Did I mention that I'm an atheist?

[o3]

never seen a charter school campaign for a school levy.

never seen local taxpayers vote to transfer local property taxes outta district.

[libtoidz]

who cares about local control

[Bob]

never seen a capital letter.

[John Thacker]

never seen a charter school campaign for a school levy.

I have, since they get the same amount of money as the centralized non-choice schools do.

never seen local taxpayers vote to transfer local property taxes outta district.

Hard to tell if you mean this is a good or a bad thing. You're opposed to local property taxes from a rich area being spent on poor kids from another area, right?

Are you one of those people who believe in schools with expensive tuitions, just the kind that come bundled with a nice house, granite countertops, and hardwood floors?

[Shirley Knott]

"We might see a fundamental shift that takes us where we may never see where we are today again,"

He says that like it's a bad thing.
So he must not have gotten much of an education either.

no hugs for thugs,
Shirley Knott

[Spartacus]

Yeah, I think that's pretty much the point. He says it like it's an unintended effect.

[P Brooks]

"We might see a fundamental shift that takes us where we may never see where we are today again,"

Poetry.

Of course, this reminds me of a statement made by the head of Montana's schools a while back, when he basically said, "There's nothing wrong with the way we do things, we just need more money so we can do it harder." Innovation is for chumps, apparently.

Any time I hear a public employee say, "We're doing a terrific job, we just need a bigger budget" I immediately assume that person would be of greater economic benefit picking up beer cans on the side of the road.

[Zeb]

It is Michigan. You can get 10 cents a can there.

[P Brooks]

Democrats and public school proponents argued that charters aren't subject to the same standards of transparency and accountability as traditional public schools, and they object to for-profit companies administering education.

OMFG teh evul PROFITZES

[JohnG]

teh horrorzzz of pleazzinn customerrzzz

[John Thacker]

Democrats and public school proponents argued that charters aren't subject to the same standards of transparency and accountability as traditional public schools,

Because parents and children are fundamentally too stupid to decide whether or not their school is a good one.

[J_L_B]

I have liberal friends who INSIST that any charter school will simply hand out A's in order to keep the customer (parents) happy and by extension keep the revenue flowing.

They envision a scenario where academics will be for sale, and the school administrators, who will do anything to preserve their bonus, will forgo education to please even the customer's most unreasonable demand.

[chris]

The Public Sector, where the better angels of human nature take refuge, and our sordid demons fear to tread.

[John Thacker]

Sure, this is somewhat a risk, but do they have a particular argument as to why the centralized public schools don't do this?

Social promotion and so forth are a fact at public schools. If parents don't demand education, then the schools won't provide it.

Do they really believe that there are far more parents who would pull their kids out to get a worse education rather than pull their kids out to get a better education?

Sure, there are some liberal hippie parents who use charters to get what *I* think is a silly and worse education, but that's life and choice.

[Spartacus]

There may be a few. There are some colleges today that basically do that. But they are few, and have deservedly crappy reputations, so most folks stay far away from them. As soon as there are a couple of years where "straight A" students score in the bottom quartile on the SAT and can't get admitted to any colleges, that whole accountability thing will kick in.

Besides, it's an open secret now that many public schools pass students who don't deserve it in order to keep their funding levels, so this is not a new thing. The real question is whether charter schools would do it more than the public schools. I haven't seen any evidence to support this.

[Spoonman.]

The year before Wilmer-Hutchins ISD near Dallas got terminated, its valedictorian got a 600 on the SAT, IIRC.

[Eduard van Haalen]

Wait, do you mean total?

[Montani Semper Liberi]

There are some colleges today that basically do that. But they are few, and have deservedly crappy reputations

Ivy League schools have some of the highest grade inflation. The average GPA at Harvard is 3.48--basically a B+/A-. Princeton recently put in a policy to try and curb grade inflation because they were at the point where nearly half the grades awarded for undergraduates were A's. I wouldn't say either school is particularly lacking in reputation.

[Auric Demonocles]

I saw the same thing at Cornell.

[Colonel_Angus]

Universities though generally have shitty policies about wiping or replacing grades, or dropping and refunding classes. For what the shit costs, students deserve some level of satisfaction.

[Spartacus]

The original statement I was responding to was:

"They envision a scenario where academics will be for sale, and the school administrators, who will do anything to preserve their bonus, will forgo education to please even the customer's most unreasonable demand."

There is definitely some grade inflation at the Ivies, but I don't think that desperation to maintain the revenue stream is the cause. Sorry if that was unclear.

[Billy Crystal]

There are some colleges today that basically do that.

"If you tell anyone we'll find you and we'll kill you."

[DesigNate]

Tell them to take a good hard look at the public school they send their kid to now.

[Pips]

Works in colleges.

[pmains]

Talking to a local private school vice-principal the other day, her take was that all parents want a "good education" for their kids, but frequently they (particularly less-educated parents) don't have any idea what that looks like. The public sector has largely atrophied the market, but that can be fixed.

[califronian]

"They envision a scenario where academics will be for sale, and the school administrators, who will do anything to preserve their bonus, will forgo education to please even the customer's most unreasonable demand."

So what? If that's what people want who are we to stop them from buying it?

[The Man]

Didn't Detroit fire its illiterate school board chairman for masturbating in front of the (female) superintendent? As I recall he even pulled out his hankey and wiped himself. This kind of thing is pure comedy gold. I for one will hate to see it end.

[EcoDude]

Apparently...

http://www.thegatewaypundit.co.....intendent/

[Monty.Crisco]

"We might see a fundamental shift that takes us where we may never see where we are today again,"

AS the third person to comment on this statement, I must say that for a declaration of mind-numbing obviousness and breathtaking stupidity, its profundity is unmatched. I am totally going to use it in the hopes someone hears me and says to themselves, "Wow, that guy is really deep and eloquent"...

[sixstring]

You gotta use "paradigm" if you really want to impress the ladies.

[Restoras]

Tony, see this? Now who's going "WAAHH!!! IT'S MINE!!!"?

[Things We Hate]

A libertarian list!

Cops
Police
Teachers
Hipsters
Whiners who disagree with us

What do you hate, chattertariat?

[DesigNate]

White Indian is that you?

[anon]

Don't say that name! You might summon the demon.

[SugarFree]

It's OK. He's still on his way back home with a wheelbarrow full of Taco Bell for lunch.

[BakedPenguin]

"This should provide adequate sustenance for the F Troop marathon"

[A Secret Band of Robbers]

IT'S CALLED FORAGING YOU CITY-STATIST

[Bingo]

It's White Indian in the sense that all of our trolls are the same person. Whether or not it is the same persona is another story.

[Bones]

Government and their enablers.

Oh, you said that.

[?]

I have liberal friends who INSIST that any charter school will simply hand out A's in order to keep the customer (parents) happy and by extension keep the revenue flowing.

They envision a scenario where academics will be for sale, and the school administrators, who will do anything to preserve their bonus, will forgo education to please even the customer's most unreasonable demand.

So every school will be Harvard.

WOOTITAS

[anonymous]

Im pretty dissapointed by this article and by the comments in this thread. No self respecting libertarian supports charter schools any more than they support public schools.

[Monty.Crisco]

I call bullshit on that rather sweeping statement. And I am intrigued by the one above and the use of the exclamation "WOOTITAS". Etymology please.

[anonymous]

Charter schools weren't created by the market they were created by the government and like all government solutions to government problems they either exacerbate the issues they were intended to adress or create an enitrely new set of problems that are just as bad if not worse.

All this rhetoric about 'choice' and 'competition' and 'markets' and 'accountablity' is bullcrap.

[Bones]

Oh come on. At the very least, they piss off the teacher's unions. So they not JUST AS BAD as public schools.

[anonymous]

Well, in my home state charter school employees are considered municipal employees under state law which means they're part of the municipal employees union. The municipal employee unions are at least as bad(worse?) as the teachers unions and I'm pretty sure the situation is the same in other states and jurisdictions in that regard , but you can see what I mean about creating new problems? What good is pissing off the teachers union if we do it by enriching the municipal employees union?

Re-regulation not De-regulation.

[DesigNate]

No true scotsman and all that...

[Tonio with No Self-Respect]

The perfect is ever the enemy of the good.

[Colonel_Angus]

This is the only thing I can think of right now where I say, "fuck it". I'm completely opposed to clever ideas that Reason sometimes proposes, like health savings accounts, public-private road schemes, shit like that. But charter schools don't piss me off like those things. I think its because charter schools piss off regular public schools, which is awesome.

[P Brooks]

They envision a scenario where academics will be for sale, and the school administrators, who will do anything to preserve their bonus, will forgo education to please even the customer's most unreasonable demand.

In other words, Harvard.

[The other Tigers]

Everyone knows Princeton is the last Ivy to give real grades. My kids will go there or MIT.

[Colonel_Angus]

Princeton is a bullshit institution like all the others. And MIT is awesome, except for the problem that its located in Massoftwoshits. There's other "IT"'s that are just as good.

[P Brooks]

So every school will be Harvard.

Great minds, et c.

[derfel cadarn]

WTF!!! Having to compete for the consumers dollar on a level playing field. How un-American ! What an @$$hole .

[anonymous]

Thers no real competition as far as charter schools are concerned.

[anonymous]

There's

[NAL]

But it's more than exists now. Baby steps...

[anon]

This is by far one of the better Christmas presents I've gotten so far this year.

[Colonel_Angus]

"we may never see where we are today again"

Its a good thing. Can schools in Michigan get any worse? Just check out this guy's grammar in the article.

[NAL]

I thought the same thing...and is the quote below a typo or did the guy actually say that?

We'll now have to enter these markets, not because it's where what we want to do...

[vb]

i'm a conservative guy who spend 14 years in the private sector, and left a lot of money to go work for 30K as a first year teacher. i'm amazed and amused to see outsiders rip on schools. what's your next critique ... architects? because you have about as much right critiquing that profession if you've never stepped in a classroom. two systems will equal two lousy systems. and unions are illegal in my state.

[Ray]

Watch out guys were dealing with a badass here. You left good money for teaching, therefore you're entitled to tell us we can't comment on the teaching profession? How can you call yourself a conservative; have you ever held office? You better never comment on any profession you've never done before, you paragon of enlightenment.

[vb]

blithering means to talk on excessively - what does that have to do with my choice to serve others? everyone on this forum is a wanna be intellectual. you can't drop adjectives in wherever you like and hope they stick.

[MarylandMike]

When the government start diverting massive amounts of our tax dollars into a bloated, corrupt Department of Architecture only for us to turn around and find our quality of architecture falls at the bottom of the list among industrialized nations, then we'll start criticizing architects.

[MarylandMike]

Besides, most of the criticism here is directed not at the teachers but at the unions that represent them.

[Enjoy Every Sandwich]

We can judge them by their output. I don't need a PhD to tell you that a school that graduates illiterates is defective.

Speaking of defective, your prose tells me that you probably are a public schoolteacher.

[vb]

my prose. love it! judge me by comments on a board. now that's intellectual! would you like a copy of my text messages too, for more insight? i'm a professional writer, ex journalist, and am curious about your profession? besides stroking your own ego online.

[anon]

I have every right to critique architecture that's defective.

I have every right to criticize teachers that produce students ignorant of basic economics.

[vb]

what do you do? your criticism of architecture isn't valid unless you know what you are talking about. this isn't rocket science. everyone has an opinion on education, but no one has the balls to join me in the fray.

[Krampus Kristen]

left a lot of money to go work for 30K as a first year teacher

That just proves you're a blithering idiot and I shouldn't read further.

[vb]

no i'm a skilled writer with several degrees who wants to help America ... and instead I'm thrown under the bus for it. good attitude. who's going to teach your kids?

[Joshua]

I haven't seen any general teacher/school critiques. Unless you're talking about the statements that schools are not producing high quality educational outcomes. If that's ripping on schools or critiquing the pedagogical vocation, then I think you might have a bit of a thin skin.

Please direct my attention to them.

What I have seen are criticisms of monopolies on 1) teacher labor that performs the labor 2) the money that Americans pay for primary education 3) top-heavy administrations that spend too much money on things that aren't educating students.

[Dean Stillman]

Theres a dude that seems to know what he is talking about.

http://www.RealPrivacy.tk

[margie]

if the PEOPLE were happy with the PUBLIC SCHOOLS, the schools wouldn't fear competition.
Maybe Mr. Glass will finally see the need to LISTEN to his residents OR they will WALK.

[smaturin]

Some context might be useful.
Michigan's legislature is dealing with a series of education related bills; most of which are geared toward long-standing problems present in big city schools. The concern in many districts like the one where Glass is superintendent, is that they do not have the same problems as those big city districts, and do not want the same legislative treatment.

Glass is the superintendent of one of the wealthiest public school districts in the country. The big current debate in the district is whether to spend $50M and renovate the district's two high schools, or combine them into one school at a cost of $90M. Something like 98% of the grads go to 4 year colleges, students get high standardized test scores, etc. . . . Charter schools are not really a competitive concern for the district. The competition for students comes from some fine religiously affiliated schools, and a couple of secular privates with tuition costs exceeding $20K per year.