Reason Morning Links: Obama Goes Full Metal Jerk-Off on Medical Marijuana, Reports From Various Occupations, Medical Cartel Members Want More Perks

• The Department of Justice has a plan to snuff out medical marijuana clinics in California and Oregon.  
• AP fact-checks Obama's jobs policy (again). 
• Police raid Occupy San Francisco; Occupy D.C. organizers pay Hispanics to show up; SWAT team stands between Occupy St. Louis and Bank of America; Occupy Tampa decides not to camp out. 
• America's medical licensing regime in all its glory: "Nursing leaders say that their push to have more nurses earn doctorates has nothing to do with their fight of several decades in state legislatures to give nurses more autonomy, money and prescriptive power. But many physicians are suspicious and say that once tens of thousands of nurses have doctorates, they will invariably seek more prescribing authority and more money. Otherwise, they ask, what is the point?"
• Happy 10-year anniversary, Afghan War!

New at Reason.tv: "Abandoned in Guatemala: The Failure of International Adoption Policies"

Comments

[rather]

October 07, 1943 , Wake Island

[John]

Very interesting.

[Quetzalcoatl]

Good morning, reason

[Bee Tagger]

Happy 10-year anniversary, Afghan War!

Coincidentally, I believe the 10th anniversary is the Opium anniversary.

[Mike Laursen]

Which one is the AK-47 anniversary, again?

[DJF]

Good thing that the UN and Obama are going to protect civilians in Libya. I am sure that they will stop the Libyan interim government from bombarding a city full of civilians. Government bombarding civilian rebels is against that UN resolution [/s]

""""Sustained tank and mortar fire has been targeting Sirte and there are huge columns of smoke across the city, some 360km (225 miles) east of Tripoli, with many buildings struck and on fire, says our correspondent."""

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-15210806

[Au H20]

Gawker users earnestly try to convince themselves that Elizabeth Warren is attractive.

It was either this or Jezebel, and this is much funnier/grosser.

[rather]

One Jezebel whore is enough

[Quetzalcoatl]

THAT'S NOT FUNNY

[Apatheist]

What can the Jezebites say? Isn't Warren the one who made a sexist comment that tries to enforce traditional gender roles?

[BakedPenguin]

The truth is intrinsically paternalistic sometimes.

[John]

Brown's response to Warren was a real zing. I didn't think he had it in him.

[Scruffy Nerfherder]

He just went up a notch in my book

[Tony Boloney]

I'd hit it.

No, literally, I would punch her.

[Fist of Etiquette]

There's an Occupy D.C. now? I assume it's really just Occupy the House Majority.

[Quetzalcoatl]

I'm sure that's why several Democrat representatives hurried to welcome their new hippie overlords.

[Au H20]

Went there yesterday. It was damn depressing.

[Aqua-Assualt Rabbit]

Occupy DC's main focus is Citizens United - that is, restricting the freedom of speech of entities and people they don't like. It's a total freedomfest.

But the local corporationee food franchises are providing free food so they've got that going for them.

[James Ard]

A reporter needs to ask a protestor if they think the government should have the power to ban movies. Then ask him if they know what the question was in the Citizens United case.

[Kolohe]

It wasn't a bad turnout when I went by around 5:30 pm - far more than I expected. But it was the nicest day we've had in litterallyjoebiden over 2 months.

[Lord Humungus]

'Time to kill the wealthy,' says fan of Occupy Wall Street
http://dailycaller.com/2011/10.....ll-street/

Several influential New York state lawmakers have received threatening mails saying it is "time to kill the wealthy" if they don't renew the state's tax surcharge on millionaires, according to reports.

"It's time to tax the millionaires!" reads the email, according to WTEN in Albany. "If you don't, I'm going to pay a visit with my carbine to one of those tech companies you are so proud of and shoot every spoiled Ivy League [expletive] I can find?"

[Bee Tagger]

shoot every spoiled Ivy League [expletive] I can find?"

When the company runs more smoothly and starts earning a bigger profit, what then?

[John]

No kidding. Could he come to the government and do the same thing? He methods are extreme but he does mean well.

[Quetzalcoatl]

I guess Obama should cancel any visits to NY tech companies...

[Tim]

He killed Solyndra without firing a shot.

[sloopyinca]

If only the guy had a newsletter I could subscribe to so I could read more about his intriguing ideas!

[Brett L]

Kerry and Obama are on this list, yes?

[Jay Gould]

Bring it, hippie.

I can hire one half of the working class to kill the other half.

[Pablo]

I had to LOL at the SF protester who told the police "join us. you are part of the 99 percent."

Um, no they are not.

[Lord Humungus]

George Will: Elizabeth Warren and liberalism, twisting the 'social contract'
http://www.washingtonpost.com/.....s_opinions

Warren's statement is a footnote to modern liberalism's more comprehensive disparagement of individualism and the reality of individual autonomy. A particular liberalism, partly incubated at Harvard, intimates the impossibility, for most people, of self-government ? of the ability to govern one's self. This liberalism postulates that, in the modern social context, only a special few people can literally make up their own minds.

[John]

http://www.bostonherald.com/ne.....id=1371593

Boston plays favorites with protesters.

[Spoonman.]

I think this guy was trolling Occupy Houston

[Quetzalcoatl]

Nice.

[Apatheist]

I saw some of the Houston guys on the way to my car after work yesterday. Or rather I smelt them, then I saw them.

[robc]

I think there was something in the bottom right corner, but I couldnt quite see it clearly.

[Spoonman.]

"fnord"

[Lord Humungus]

Dems change rules; Senate in chaos
http://www.politico.com/news/s.....65383.html

The Senate descended into procedural chaos Thursday night as Democrats forced a change in Senate rules and shut down a GOP effort to bog down a Chinese currency bill with a series of unrelated amendments.

Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid's move to suddenly overhaul a key Senate rule without warning infuriated Republicans and put an already bitterly divided chamber on edge as senators from both sides of the aisle traded angry accusations over whether the fight would fundamentally limit the rights of the minority party.

[John]

I saw that. Have they gone insane? What good does it do them? They can't get bills through the House. And don't they realize that there is a good chance they will lose the White House and Senate in 2012? I guess they figure they can change it back during the lame duck session in 2012.

[R C Dean]

I think the advantage is that bills will die in the Republican House, not the Democratic Senate.

Pure optics, but that's what "governing" is about these days.

[Lord Humungus]

that was my thought - it's part of the "Do-Nothing" congress strategy of the WH.

[Fatty Bolger]

What's funny is that the "obstructionist" Republicans wanted to force a vote in the Senate on Obama's bill. But even the Senate Democrats realize that would be a disaster for them.

[Tulpa]

I'm not clear on how Obama is going to run against Congress when his own party controls the more powerful house in Congress. Not that that will stop him from doing it, or the media from framing it that way.

[Invisible Finger]

I support a DO-nothing strategy. If only the executive branch agencies would follow the same plan.

[Fatty Bolger]

I just want to thank Harry Reid for clearing the path to Obamacare repeal. Nicely done.

[Maxxx]

Exactly.

Fuck Hairy Reed.

[hmm]

Within the first minute the guy in the St. Louis video proves he's a fucking moron. He's wrong on payday loans and there are economic studies that substantiate that claim, he's wrong on his right to enter the premises, and that isn't the St. Louis SWAT team it's just cops in riot gear.

[Lord Humungus]

Washington Post: Solyndra: A bad bet Obama should regret
http://www.washingtonpost.com/.....story.html

The important lesson is that the government "is a crappy vc" ? venture capitalist ? as then-White House economic adviser Lawrence Summers put it in an internal e-mail. Government can foster clean energy by subsidizing basic research, whose fruits become available to a variety of entrepreneurs, and by setting broad incentives that shift demand in favor of alternative energy. Subsidizing selected technologies or companies, by contrast, is a game that taxpayers often lose, as the history of boondoggles from synthetic fuels to the fast breeder reactor suggests. We suspect China will learn this lesson, too.

[John]

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10.....AY&ei=5065

Any woman is free to kill their husband as long as she can get her kids to say he was an asshole.

[WTF]

It's the pussy pass. A woman can assualt/kill a man with little consequence as long as she claims he 'made her fearful'.

[Gray Ghost]

Seems like a case of jury baby-splitting. They did ring her up on one of the weapons possession charges, which carries a 3.5-15 year sentence range. Nothing stops the judge from giving her the max.

I can't condone what she did, but I can certainly understand it. And if she goes to the pen for 9 years for killing the guy who used to frequently beat the shit out of her throughout their marriage, I won't lose much sleep at the injustice of it all.

[John]

Very true. At some point, you have a responsibility to leave. I am sorry but hanging around for twenty years taking abuse and then one day shooting the guy is not really acceptable.

[Coeus]

He was a cop. I would imagine it's very hard to run from a cop.

[sarcasmic]

Ali Larter (the hot blond on Heroes) is still hot.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvs.....match.html

[Au H20]

Well at least the South Asian feminists are noticing how damn white the Occupy Wall Street protest is.

Seriously... the feministing articles on this are hilarious. Apparently, there are enough gays, transgendererds, blacks, etc. so this is still a movement of TEH PRIVLEGE V. TEH PRIVELEGE!

[John]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/fem.....ancer.html

Hope for fattys everywhere.

[Lord Humungus]

my wife used to teach ballroom dancing for a living. Surprise - dancing ~6 hours a day keeps you fit!

[MattJ]

Teaching ballroom dancing is good exercise.

Taking ballroom dancing lessons... not so much.

Lessons go something like this:

Step 1: Teacher shows the men their part. Male students stand and watch. Female students stand and watch.

Step 2: Male students try out their part on their own, slowly. Female students stand and watch.

Step 3: Teacher shows the female students their part. Male and female students stand and watch.

Step 4: Female students try their parts out slowly. Male students stand and watch.

Step 5: Male and female students get in dance frame and try out what they just learned, slowly.

Repeat.

Dancing itself is pretty good exercise, within limits. Especially if you go to a swing or salsa dance, instead of a generic ballroom dance. That is, if I'm dancing hard, I'm going to get sweaty, and while that is an indicator that I'm getting some cardiovascular workout, it also means that the women are going to become less eager to dance with me.

Again, the salsa and swing dance communities are a little more tolerant of sweatier dance partners.

[Clich? Bandit]

I think this is way oversimplified. When done properly a vianese walts, quickstep, or tango is one hell of a workout.

[Au H20]

NEWSFLASH: School lunches suck!

Favorite comment:"No because then the kids with negligent parents, parents that work odd hours or homeless kids would still go hungry. We, as a society, really need to learn that schools are the heart of our community and treat them as centers to distribute food and healthcare to the young poor."

It takes a village indeed.

[WTF]

This is priceless:
The problem is students who most need free and reduced lunches often live in food deserts, so even if the parents had more money to buy healthy food, they wouldn't necessarily have access to it anyway.

What the fuck is 'food desert'? Are they actually claiming there are places in the US where there is no food available?

[SugarFree]

Food desert is term of art for a locale that doesn't have an acceptable grocery store within walking distance (>1 mile).

[WTF]

So, they might have to take the bus. The horror, the horror....

[SugarFree]

Think about it this way... people concerned with food deserts overlap significantly with the anti-car contingent. So... who gets their way? Either we get rid of cars and "food deserts" explode, otherwise thousands and thousands of grocery stores would have to be built so that they are within 1 mile of everyone.

[robc]

I would have to measure it, but I think I live in a food desert.

[WTF]

Thank God there is a supermarket within half a mile of my house, else I might starve...

[kinnath]

Well, I live in rural Iowa, so the nearest grocery store is about 4 miles away, but I'm surrounded by thousands of acres of corn and beans. So is that still a food desert.?

[Pablo]

"Im surrounded by thousands of acres of corn and beans."

No you don't live in a food desert but if that's your diet, it's probably a good thing there aren't many people around you.

[Tulpa]

Isn't most of that corn grown for consumption by livestock, and unsuitable for humans?

[Clich? Bandit]

it is perfectly suitable for humans...tastes like shit but is suitable.

[rac3rx]

I had the same thought.

[Quetzalcoatl]

Jobs saved or created...

[db]

And massively increased carbon footprint associated with all the added truck movements.

[Jersey Patriot]

Think about it this way... people concerned with food deserts overlap significantly with the anti-car contingent.

[citation needed]

Evidence to the contrary: Is Junk Food Really Cheaper? by Mark Bittman

--

Still, 93 percent of those with limited access to supermarkets do have access to vehicles, though it takes them 20 more minutes to travel to the store than the national average. And after a long day of work at one or even two jobs, 20 extra minutes ? plus cooking time ? must seem like an eternity.

Taking the long route to putting food on the table may not be easy, but for almost all Americans it remains a choice, and if you can drive to McDonald's you can drive to Safeway.

[kilroy]

I guess I live in a food desert. The nearest grocery outlet is 12 miles. That's also the nearest gas. And there are no buses out here.

These are all positive attributes.

[T]

Real grocery stores won't open in economically disadvantaged areas, so they're forced into buying groceries at the Quicky Mart.

The MBA in me says 'shrinkage', but bleeding heart liberals say 'racism'.

[Gray Ghost]

It's not just MBAs, T: http://www.washingtonpost.com/.....06783.html

D.C. politicians agree with you that their constituents can't stop themselves from shoplifting. Oldie, but a goodie.

[Pablo]

It's not just shrinkage although that is a big factor (there was a small Kroger downtown here but they had to close due to over $1M per year in inventory loss). Lower income people tend to eat a lot of fast food and junk food even when healthier stuff is available and affordable.

[Scruffy Nerfherder]

No Whole Foods within a mile? The horror!

[Benjamin]

I prefer Wegmans, which is alas only a Mid-Atlantic thing. So do I live in a food desert. And if you live within a mile of a DQ does one live in a food dessert?

[Zeb]

Which is usually because the genius benevolent city planners won't allow walmart into the city.

[Pablo]

Exactly. They whine because small businesses dont have the resources to sell fresh produce, lean meat, etc in inner city shitholes. Then they bully and harass the only businesses (walmart, target) who could actually move into such areas and sell healthy food at a profit.

[R C Dean]

Food desert is term of art for a locale that doesn't have an acceptable grocery store within walking distance (>1 mile).

Well, that would be most of the United States, then. Including lots of very poshy neighborhoods.

I don't know that I've ever lived within a mile of a grocery store. Certainly not when I lived in rural areas, and not even when I lived in Dallas.

[Lord Humungus]

I live within a mile of a small grocery store. An overpriced one at that. We use it for some "run in and get" items, but end up at the 'big chain store' for the bulk of our food.

[Maxxx]

Food desert is term of art for a locale that doesn't have an acceptable grocery store within walking distance (>1 mile).

So pretty much every modern suburb is a 'food desert' then.

[Clich? Bandit]

Highlands Ranch Colorado is the Sahara.

[Tulpa]

within walking distance (>1 mile).

I was going to snarkily correct Sugar's use of > rather than <, but then I realized that he had successfully coded an HTML-ism. I applaud your progress, SF.

[Mokers]

I love these gawker threads where people complain about the ineffectiveness of government programs and then use the comment section to figure out how more government intervention will make things better. Then again, that can describe pretty much every gawker thread

[rac3rx]

How can we have an obesity problem AND a hunger problem?

[SugarFree]

On a lighter note:

Fleshlight releases new cyborg, zombie, Frankenstein's monster, and vampire-themed vagina-sleeves.

The Frankenstien's monster looks more like a baseball ersatz-gina, than anything else. Have you ever wanted to fuck a baseball? It is now somewhat possible.

[John]

I wouldn't click on that link for love nor money.

For a Klondike Bar, then?

[John]

Well those are pretty good.

[The Art-P.O.G.]

I don't even have to click on that link (I'm at work, or I would). The title is already a win.

[Scruffy Nerfherder]

Do it for the lulz then

[Scruffy Nerfherder]

I clickied, that just ain't right

[Ice Nine]

If you think that ain't right, you don't even want to make the mistake I did and click the fetus link there. SF needs to be forcibly separated from decent society for even knowing that that website exists.

[T]

Gawker seems confused. I would expect that at Fleshbot, not io9.

[John]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/44.....a_pacific/

North Korea going to mass starvation again. How much longer before that boil finally breaks?

[Abdul]

"Crisis grips North Korea"

Shit, there was never a day since 1953 where you couldn't run that headline.

[John]

Pretty much. But something that can't go on forever won't. At some point that place is going to disintegrate. How long before they can't feed the army?

[BakedPenguin]

OCCUPY NORTH KOREA. Why don't the douche bags whine about the colossal inequalities in that system?

[Abdul]

I am Park Han Sook.

I work all day farming barley for our Dear Leader. After a 12 hour shift, I scavenge the countryside for edible bark and insects. I stuff my poorly made shoes with newspapers to keep me warm. I am careful to reverently remove pictures of Our Dear Leader before doing so.

I am 99%.

[sloopyinca]

I uh Park Han Sook.

I working arr day for farming barrey for Dear Reader. Affer twerre hour shift, I go for scavenging countlyside for edibre bark and-a insect for eat. I a-stuffa my-a porrrrry made shoe with newspaper for keeping feet a-warm. I careful to reverentry removing picture of Dear Reader before doing so.

I uh ninety nine percent.

FIFY

[Abdul]

Having worked in Korea for a year, that is damned hilareeyus.

[Joe M]

People might think you're joking, or using hyperbole, but everything you said is literally what it's like over there, just to be clear.

[BakedPenguin]

Abdul also gets bonus points for using an actual Korean name.

[Joe M]

Wait, they didn't call it an "unexpected" food shortage?

[Fluffy]

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/.....;=&ccode;=

The NY Times via Yahoo Finance has a nice piece on the probable consequences when Greece bails on the Euro and devalues the drachma.

I particularly like the bit about immediate devastating bank runs in Spain and Portugal and Italy and the likelihood of people with suitcases full of Euros driving to Germany as currency refugees.

What's the odds of Europe burning down at this point? 60/40?

[John]

I think the Euro and the EU are dead. It was a stupid idea. Never has a party been more vindicated and their opponents more humiliated than the euro skeptics. In five years, we will be back to borders, sovereignty and separate currencies.

[Tulpa]

There's nothing wrong with the idea of the euro. We have 50 semi-sovereign govts in the "dollarzone" yet we don't have crises of this magnitude.

[Trespassers W]

Not until California goes bankrupt, anyway.

[Quetzalcoatl]

I think that the most flammable cities already burned last century. Hopefully they rebuilt with stone.

[Aqua-Assualt Rabbit]

They'll just need to deploy some German "Peacekeepers" like in the 40s. The greasy southerners will get the point and hopefully a nice stable currency like the New Reichmark.

[John]

Lets let the Germans be Germans again.

[WTF]

You know who else wanted to let the Germans be Germans?

[Lord Humungus]

wait, wait... was it some guy? You know, the short one.

[John]

Woody Allen?

[Lord Humungus]

Aliens: We like his earlier, funny work.

[Chinny Chin Chin]

Herv? Villechaize?

[Aqua-Assualt Rabbit]

Hiel Merkel.

[sloopyinca]

I wonder how this would be playing out if Putin the bear-wrestler were German.

[Tulpa]

Garrison Keillor?

[Tim]

Invest in black leather futures.

[T]

The Germans have too many enviro-weenies now. It'll be black cotton, sustainably harvested. Your She Wolf of The SS fantasies will have to be downgraded accordingly.

[Lord Humungus]

booooo

[T]

Say what you will about the tenets of National Socialism, but at least...

they were snappy dressers.

[Ska]

The chick in Bloodrayne will be wearing hemp fiber drawstring pants and a wifebeater.

[Rich]

"We can either keep taxes exactly as they are for millionaires and billionaires, ... or we can put teachers and construction workers and veterans back on the job."

Yet *another* false dichotomy presented by Obama. Is anybody tracking those?

[John]

What teacher is out of a job? We spend more fucking money on teachers than we do about anything else.

[Scruffy Nerfherder]

Didn't you hear? They fire all of them every June.

[Abdul]

I'm not crying over this, but gov. Christie laid off a bunch of teachers, including my sister.

Because she's on hard times, I just gave her $100 for her birthday. But I donated $200 to re-elect the fat man.

[WTF]

Because she's on hard times, I just gave her $100 for her birthday. But I donated $200 to re-elect the fat man.

I like your style.

[Fluffy]

Woulda been even better if you donated in her name.

[Abdul]

Re-election is 2 years away, so there's time.

[Benjamin]

I like your thinking Abdul.

[Tulpa]

If money is speech, wouldn't it be illegal to claim that your speech was someone else's?

[CrackertyAssCracker]

Only if you believe in IP.

[ATF]

Yet *another* false dichotomy presented by Obama. Is anybody tracking those?

We're supposed to, but we're not very good at keeping track of things.

[sarcasmic]

Demand your local gun shop start carrying zombie targets!

http://www.ktdtactical.com/Chris-Chris.htm

[Scruffy Nerfherder]

I'm more interested in a dirty hippie target

[Ice Nine]

What idiot was shooting that target in the chest?

[Ska]

The guy you'll have to shoot in the head in about two hours.

[Ice Nine]

LOL

[Lord Humungus]

Obama's Empty Threats
http://www.commentarymagazine......-congress/

When demanding approval of so-called jobs bill, Obama essentially threatened Republicans: If they vote against the legislation, the president said, then they'll have to "explain to me" why they voted against it. On several occasions the president returned to this theme: voting against Stimulus II will require Republicans to answer not only to their constituents but to The Great and Mighty Obama. Every senator who even dares to entertain the thought of voting against what the president wants had better think "long and hard" about doing so. If not, after all, Obama may use their vote against them in 2012.

[Republicans]

If they vote against the legislation, the president said, then they'll have to "explain to me" why they voted against it.

Ooohh, we're scared!

[Tulpa]

I wonder if he realizes that only a third of the Senate is up for reelection in 2012, and among those most of the close races are for seats held by Dems.

[Kant feel Pietzsche]

Mr. Riggs, check on those sources. That St. Louis video was from a protest back in August.

[alch]

Was going to say that. It has been sunny here all week.

[Lord Humungus]

OT: some modern retro-synth
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eWmyv9ozqXw

[BakedPenguin]

Milquetoast fans, put this on your pie and cook it: Cain leads Romney by 20%.

[Zeb]

I'm no fan of Cain, but it would be pretty amusing if he got the nomination.

[kilroy]

There's a Digital Petition up to request Gary Johnson be included in the next debate.

Spare me the change.org grief.

[MNG]

You know, it's just impossible to think of any legit prupose for Fast and Furious so it MUST have been some gun control cover up!

Earlier ATF gun operation 'Wide Receiver' used same tactics as 'Fast and Furious'

But it turns out there was another gun operation run by the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives years before, using the same tactics of allowing guns to flow illegally onto U.S. streets and into Mexico. This operation was conducted under the Bush administration's Justice Department.

Dubbed "Operation Wide Receiver," the case was run out of Tucson between 2006 and 2007 and involved hundreds of guns that were purchased by small-time buyers who transferred them to middle men who then passed them up the chain and into Mexico.

[John]

There is quite a bit of difference between the two operations.

Wide Receiver sought to track and interdict guns being smuggled south using a combination of RFID-tracking devices embedded in the shipments and overheard surveillance aircraft. Wide Receiver failed because of the limitations of the technology used, compounded by the ineptness of its installation and the unexpected resourcefulness of the cartel's gun smugglers.

As a result of the mistakes made in Wide Receiver, guns were lost: approximately 450 made it into Mexico. As a result, the botched operation launched in 2006 ? and in this instance, actually botched ? was shut down in 2007.

Compare the mistakes of Wide Receiver to the operations launched under Eric Holder's Department of Justice, which had the advantages of learning from the postmortem failures of Wide Receiver two years before.

Fast and Furious used neither tracking devices nor aircraft, ran interference for smugglers with local law enforcement on multiple occasions, and federal agents were not allowed to interdict weapons.

Wide Receiver shut down within a year after 450 weapons went missing in a botched law enforcement operation. Fast and Furious purposefully ran at least 2,020 weapons to the Sinaloa cartel without any intention of arresting the straw purchasers and smugglers. Other operations in other states ? CBS News' Attkisson cites allegations of "at least 10 cities in five states" ? allow the possibility that (if the other operations were as prolific as Fast and Furious) Holder's Department of Justice may have intentionally sent more than 12,000 guns into criminal hands in the U.S and Mexico, enough to arm three U.S. Army brigades.

[MNG]

I love how cons deconstruct themselves, and with such GUSTO!

A difference sited is that with FF "federal agents were not allowed to interdict weapons", implying with WR they were, but the same article admits: "450 made it into Mexico"

The article also says "Fast and Furious used neither tracking devices"

But we have John's own admission:

John|9.29.11 @ 10:54AM|#
The guns had GPS trackers on them

[John]

I was wrong. I thought they did. I couldn't believe they would be that stupid. But they were.

Just face it. They sent thousands of guns to Mexico with no hope of recovering them or ever getting any indictments. There is no defending or excusing it. And no explaining it other than they wanted American guns to show up in Mexico so they could use that as an excuse for more federal gun laws.

[MNG]

Look John, I'll pause thank you before I jump onto one of your conspiracy theories seeing as how your regular promulgation of them has regularly involved you having to admit you were flat wrong...

John|10.7.11 @ 10:14AM|#
I was apparently wrong about that.

Sherrod, Oslo Muslims, TX prayer injunction, GPS trackers, no exemptions to the ESA...

You're kinda an "unreliable narrator" for this type of thing...

[MNG]

You'd think you'd get tired of being misled by Drudge et al., tired of having to write:

John|10.7.11 @ 10:14AM|#
I was apparently wrong about that.

So very much. They've done you quite a disservice John. Swear them off, or try to develop a bit more critical faculties about their reporting before swallowing.

[John]

Show me where they did have trackers on them. As it stands it appears they didn't. If you have evidence they did, produce it and actually add something to the debate besides screaming talking points and Shirley Sherrod.

If they didn't have tracking devices, then please explain why they let thousands of guns out on the street with no way to track them?

Again, add something. Don't just scream and hope for gotchas. Did they or did they not have tracking devices on the guns? It is my understanding now they didn't. If that is not true, show me a source that says they did.

[MNG]

John|10.7.11 @ 10:25AM|#
Show me where they did have trackers on them.

I will, here's my source:

John|9.29.11 @ 10:54AM|#
The guns had GPS trackers on them

Are you saying this source is unreliable?

[John]

No. I am saying I misunderstood what I read. I thought they had trackers on them. But apparently that is not true. If it is and there was trackers then go get a source and show me. If they didn't have trackers, then there is no rational way to explain the operation.

So, stop worrying about me. The question is was there trackers on the guns. It appears from I am reading now, there wasn't. If you have better information that says there was, please provide it. Try to be interested in the facts and the truth a little more and be a little less obsessed with me.

[MNG]

John|7.21.10 @ 11:20AM|#
The USDA should have never fired her. But she was never the point of his story. The audience was.

reply to this
MNG|7.21.10 @ 11:22AM|#
John, you didn't call for her firing?

reply to this
John|7.21.10 @ 11:26AM|#
Of course I did.

[MNG]

John|9.2.11 @ 9:48AM|#
There is no self defense except to the ESA.

John|9.2.11 @ 10:33AM|#
Yes there is a self defense exception.

[MNG]

John|10.7.11 @ 10:22AM|#
the guns did not have trackers on them

John|9.29.11 @ 10:54AM|#
The guns had GPS trackers on them

[MNG]

John, you don't have to keep letting Drudge humiliate you like this.

Walk away young man, walk away. You're better than an abusive relationship like that.

[John]

Jesus, MNG, is it really that hard to answer a question? Did the guns have trackers on them? I say no. I thought they did, but I apparently misunderstood. Do you say yes? If so, provide a source that says so and why you think they did.

If you say no, then explain how the operation could have any purpose other than to just dump guns in Mexico.

Let's get to the truth here. Yelling Shirley Sherod and engaging in your weird obsession with me doesn't help your argument and just makes you look defensive. This is kind of an important topic. I would like to know what happened. And I think whether the guns had tracking devices is a really important question. Now do you have anything to add to that issue?

[MNG]

I would like to know what happened. And I think whether the guns had tracking devices is a really important question.

John, I refer you to someone who had a definite answer to that question:

John|9.29.11 @ 10:54AM|#
The guns had GPS trackers on them

Are you saying this guy was full of shit?

[John]

No. I am saying I misunderstood what I read. I thought I read somewhere I did. But apparently I didn't. But who cares? That doesn't change the underlying fact of whether the weapons had trackers on them.

Do you have any awareness of how bad you making yourself look? You are just screaming about me because you know that those guns not having tacking devices takes any argument that the operation was a legitimate law enforcement operation. And you don't want to face that possibility, so you just insult and obsess over me. Who cares if I got it wrong. What matters is what the underlying facts are. And you will do anything not to talk about those because you know they go against you. Jesus just be honest for once.

[shorter MNG]

*mmmm....Obama cock....slurp...*

[MNG]

Quoting John is defending Obama now?

Wow. Shorter MNG grows more desparate daily.

[The Art-P.O.G.]

What are you driving at, MNG? What is your overarching point other than playing "gotcha" with John?

[MNG]

My over-aching point Art is that it is sloppy thinking, which I think movement conservatism (and leftism) is based on, it is the foundation upon which they build their extreme rage. It's not enough to go "well, LE programs allow illegal transfers all the time, but it looks like they f*cked up here and caused some deaths"; they must, relying on speculation mind you, allege "the only possible purpose of this program must have been a conspiracy to push gun control measures"

But that is not the only possible purpose. The more obvious, simpler explanation is that allowing illegal transfers is a common LE strategy, one which in this case has actually garnered significant prosecutions and indictments, but it seems that this program has led to deaths in how it was carried out (or in simply being carried out, even it were done competently).

[T]

one which in this case has actually garnered significant prosecutions and indictments

Citation needed. Seriously, my problem here, quite distinct from whatever John thinks about it, is the operation was fundamentally flawed. Once you let the guns go across the border, you're flat screwed from an LE perspective. The chain of custody is gone, and there's no getting it back. So I cannot fathom what in the hell they thought they were accomplishing by letting the guns go south. I get the tactic up until then, even though I fundamentally disagree with it. (The cops don't get to break the law to make arrests in my mind. It was necessary to break the law to enforce it? WTF?) Coupled with the Obama administration's hostility to gun ownership, I can see some of the more paranoid conspiratorial theories, but they don't matter.

What matters is that a distinctly flawed strategy was pursued, people have died because of it, and then everybody has been lying about it.

[MNG]

From the indictment I posted the other day it seems that one thing they did was to arrest the people on this side of the border and charge with conspiracy to smuggle goods across the border. This case could be made by documenting previous purchases and crosses of the border, and then when you feel like you have it down you move in and catch them en route to the border one day, which is what they did in that indictment. This has the advantage of not having to work with or even inform the Mexican authorities (note while an advantage I think that is pretty immoral).

"What matters is that a distinctly flawed strategy was pursued, people have died because of it, and then everybody has been lying about it."

I don't disagee with any of that.

"the operation was fundamentally flawed"

This either. I think allowing illegal sales to maybe catch future bigger or more fish is always morally flawed. If someone is harmed later because of the illegal transfer you allowed then you are partly responsible for that harm imo.

[Fatty Bolger]

T is right. They got indictments - of people they could have had anyway, without letting the guns into Mexico.

Illegal transfers are sometimes allowed in order to catch the next recipient down the chain. However, they had no way of doing that. None. So what was the point of letting the guns go? What's interesting is that they did a nice job of setting up a system with Mexico to have these guns tracked once they were used in a crime. They apparently made no effort to alert Mexico to the fact that we were essentially allowing guns to go to the cartels, or to have them do anything about it.

What would be nice to know is who authorized this policy. Holder & Newell both denied under oath to Congress that it was policy to let guns go, but that's been proven to be untrue. So who started it? Who made the call?

[Kant feel Pietzsche]

The sexual tension is killing me. You two just go off somewhere and fuck already...

[Tim]

Usually it requires a few years of marriage to generate this much bickering...

[MNG]

Or years of sloppy posts from John...

[Tim]

You're Reason's own Itchy and Scratchy.

[Ska]

I'm looking forward to the lemonade/I made it myself exchange.

[Kristen]

Does reasonable have a filter where it can identify when posts are ordered John-MNG or vice versa? Cause that would fucking rock. I don't want to filter out all John's (or even all - *gasp*! - MNG's) posts, just when the two of them get together. My scroller thingie just doesn't scroll fast enough.

[kilroy]

I was looking for an option to ignore any replies to an ignored poster. I don't feed the trolls but some (pardon me) reasonable commenters do.

[rac3rx]

If you find that out, will you share with the class?

[Clich? Bandit]

FUCKING SECOND! The John/MNG love fest should be included in Troll Free Thursdays but extended to every day.

[Mainer]

This MNG fellow seems to reply to John's posts quite often. He's even saved John's comments. Stalker ? or man-crush ?

[sloopyinca]

Well I've got a novel idea. Why don't we prosecute the assholes from both DoJ's that authorized and carried out the illegal sales of guns to cartel members, whether they are from the current or last admin.

You see, we dislike both sides of the stupid party here, be they blue or red.

[MNG]

Now look, if John's favorite accusation, that I'm a Obama water-carrier, is true, then why would I argue that the operation under the Bush administration was likely motivated by legit LE concerns?

But I do. It's not about defending either one, in fact I think actions should be taken as I note below.

It's about guarding against assumption based on speculation.

[John]

hen why would I argue that the operation under the Bush administration was likely motivated by legit LE concerns?

Because it excuses Obama. It is called "they did too". And it makes up about half of your arguments on here. And again, the two operations were different. Fast and Furious was much larger and they made no effort to track the guns.

[Jordan]

Because you're a government water-carrier.

[Old Mexican]

Re: MNG,

You know, it's just impossible to think of any legit purpose for Fast and Furious so it MUST have been some gun control cover up!

Earlier ATF gun operation 'Wide Receiver' used same tactics as 'Fast and Furious'

You still haven't learned a thing: There is NO legit reason to have the ATF in the first place, or these ridiculous gun tracking programs or kowtowing to the Mexican government when it comes to guns.

[MNG]

"There is NO legit reason to have the ATF in the first place"

There, you go, this is the real basis for you and everyone else here's condemnation of the ATF. At least your honest about it.

Look, I'm hardly a fan of ATF. I remember their murderous actions regarding Waco and Ruby Ridge. But I won't close my eyes to sloppy thinking because it gibes with my political leanings.

[Old Mexican]

Re: MNG,
There, you go, this is the real basis for you and everyone else here's condemnation of the ATF. At least your honest about it.
I've been honest about it since the beginning. Your surprise is surprising.

But I won't close my eyes to sloppy thinking because it gibes with my political leanings.

WHAT sloppy thinking, MNG? You don't seem to get the selective thinking behind the existence of the ATF - why "alcohol"? Why "tobacco"? And why "firearms"? Why not other dangerous things, like buckets of water? Do you know how many toddlers would be saved if we had a "Buckets Of Water Bureau" that regulated those dangerous things? Do you??

Maybe the jest will make you think about your own ridiculous position concerning governent.

[MNG]

OM, we're not going to solve our differences in basic political philosophy here. You don't think there should be an ATF at all, I think that there probably needs to be something like an organization which enforces some laws pertaining to those three items (e.g., investigating stolen cigs or underage drinking or purchases of machine guns by terrorists), maybe a different organization or one greatly reigned in, but one nonetheless. We're not going to solve that, you know why I stand the way I do on that and I know why you stand where you do.

I'm just arguing today that arguing the only possible motivation for this program the ATF did was future political measures is speculation.

[Old Mexican]

Re: MNG,

You don't think there should be an ATF at all, I think that there probably needs to be something like an organization which enforces some laws pertaining to those three items[...]

Why am I not surprised that you would accept this circular thinking as an actual argument...

I understand, MNG: There are laws pertaining to alcohol, firearms and tobacco, ergo there needs to be an agency to oversee these three things. And if there were laws to regulate the hemline of pants and the size of dresses - why, there should be an enforcement agency for these as well!

You are right about one thing: We will never see eye-to-eye on this issue, especially because of the way you rationalize it.

[cynical]

Well, at least they made some indictments on Wide Receiver... four years after the fact, once they started freaking out about F&F.

[MNG]

From the same link:

The next day, Oct. 17, 2010, Weinstein replied:

"Do you think we should try to have Lanny [Breuer] participate in press when Fast and Furious and Laura's Tucson case are unsealed?" he wrote. "It's a tricky case given the number of guns that have walked but it is a significant set of prosecutions."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/.....story.html

Significant prosecutions...

Nope, no possible law enforcement motive imaginable...

[John]

No its not. Wide Receiver actually made an effort to track the guns and failed. It was a fuck up for sure. But Fast and Furious didn't even try to track the guns. That is why it is a crime rather than just a fuck up.

[MNG]

"But Fast and Furious didn't even try to track the guns."

John|9.29.11 @ 10:54AM|#
The guns had GPS trackers on them

I know when I don't even try to track something I affix GPS trackers on them!

[John]

I was apparently wrong about that. I gave Holder too much credit. I thought I had read somewhere where they had trackers. But apparently they didn't. It is worse than I thought.

[MNG]

John|10.7.11 @ 10:14AM|#
I was apparently wrong about that.

Add that to the pile...

[John]

This is a debate not a football game. The fact that I misspoke doesn't change the underlying facts that the guns did not have trackers on them and there was no reasonable way they could have ever been recovered.

[MNG]

John|10.7.11 @ 10:22AM|#
the guns did not have trackers on them

John|9.29.11 @ 10:54AM|#
The guns had GPS trackers on them

[John]

So what? Again, explain why they didn't put trackers on them or show me where they did.

[Tim]

WHy give Bush cover fire? Everything he touched turned to shit, just like Obama.

[Tim]

I'll take Big Billy Clinton banging interns anyday over his two successor's fucking everybody.

[MNG]

No cover from me. It sounds like both Bush and Obama administrations engaged in a law enforcement program with a common LE strategy but one that is intertwined with moral danger. When you allow or encourage contraband sales then if those allowed sales result in tragedy then you are at the very least partly complicit in it. Far from defending it I think whoever authorized this kind of thing must be civilly and possibly criminally liable for the results.

But it's too common of a law enforcement strategy to argue that the only imaginable motivation was to push future gun control measures.

[sloopyinca]

It's one thing to allow illegal transfer of bootlegged dvd's in hopes of finding the source. It's another thing completely to hand over weaponry to a group of murderous thugs who take them out of your jurisdiction.

Sorry, but the "common LE strategy" thingy should not get them a pass.

[MNG]

I don't think it is clear that anything other than "allowing illegal transfer" occurred here. Is there a reliable source that anything more did?

BTW-even John admitted that LE commonly engages in "controlled sales" where they direct one side of the sale, he just argued that BATF seemed to not make any real effort to control their side here.

[John]

But they apparently didn't track the guns. They just let them walk with no way of ever finding them. That is different than a controlled sale where you bust the guy in the parking lot or follow him back to his house and bust him there. You don't let the controlled substance out of your sight.

[MNG]

"approximately 450 made it into Mexico"

[John]

Yeah because the tracking method failed. But they did try to track them. And they stopped when the guns started to get through. It was an absolute fuck up. No question. But it was different than fast and furious, which involved thousands of weapons and there was apparently no effort to track.

[MNG]

"there was apparently no effort to track."

Well, we don't know what they tried. Really. At times you've seemed to "know" and you've had to walk back on it, so instead of more speculation, which seems to lead you into the kind of "gotchas" I posted above, why not, I dunno, wait until you actually have a firm basis for knowing before you start asserting that X is the case and moving on to castigate the MSM for not reporting X is the case, etc.

Just be patient, be critical. I'm funning with you but on the level you seem like a fairly bright guy, a guy with decent accomplishments in life. I give you kudos for walking away from many elements the right holds (WOD for example). If more conservatives believed as you do on stuff like that the world would be a better place. And you're not so wrong to be angry all the time, but dude, try to base your anger on firmer ground before you start flinging.

[MNG]

Here's what I don't get John. Right now we have all the evidence we need that the BATF engaged in, at the least, near criminal levels of negligence in carrying out this operation, negligence that has led to the deaths of Americans and Mexicans. Why engage in speculation at this point? Heads could and should roll over that alone. If something more firm comes up about a fishy motive, then by all means let's run with it, I'll write a letter to my Congressman with you urging heads roll for that.

But, I mean, surely you don't have to have a great imagination to conclude that the BATF did something negligently? That agency has a history of heavy-handed screw ups.

None of what I say absolves Holder or others. It seems to me, from what I've read, that it is very likely Holder has at the least lied about what he knew and quite possibly is trying to cover up stuff. Anyone else who passed on this has to take responsibility.

I'm just not going to allege such a conspiracy without something firmer than "well I can't imagine any other motivation."

[John]

Apparently ATF did do something negligent in Wide Receiver. Letting 450 guns go over the boarder is a massive fuck up. And people should have been fired for it no question.

What makes Fast and Furious so different is that there seems to have been no effort to track or stop these guns from going over the boarder. In Wide Receiver they tried to track and prevent the guns, they just screwed up and let them go. That is good old government negligence and incompetence. In Fast and Furious, they didn't even try to stop the guns. And they never told the Mexicans they were coming. Sorry, but that is not just negligence. There is no explanation for their behavior other than they wanted to flood Mexico with guns.

And even of you think it was just negligence. They shut wide receiver down after 450 guns got to Mexico. Why the hell did Holder restart a similar program with even less ability to track the guns and on a much larger scale? That makes no sense.

[MNG]

"Why the hell did Holder restart a similar program with even less ability to track the guns and on a much larger scale? That makes no sense."

Because he and the ATF are incompetent zealots? I mean, that strikes me as the more obvious answer to that question. Law enforcement types tend to be incompetent zealots.

[T]

Because he and the ATF are incompetent zealots?

You may be onto something here...

[Fatty Bolger]

Because he and the ATF are incompetent zealots? I mean, that strikes me as the more obvious answer to that question. Law enforcement types tend to be incompetent zealots.

Incompetent, maybe, but they're not fucking retarded.

[R C Dean]

An administration flack says that F&F resulted in significant prosecutions.

Well, that settles it.

Pay no attention to the timing on the prosecutions, or the complete disconnect between the prosecutions and the number of guns that (prosecutably!) walked with no action taken.

[MENG]

BUSH DID IT TOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Fatty Bolger]

That's a nice little bit of misdirection by MNG. Yes, it's a nice set of prosecutions. So? They could have had those prosecutions anyway. Point being, there was no law enforcement justification for letting those guns walk. Political justifications, sure. You get them all together in one big splash instead of piecemeal, makes for bigger news, right? Or more deviously, the big splash proves that the "river of steel" from the US to Mexico is real.

[Joe M]

The (Illegal) Private Bus System That Works

[Old Mexican]

Until the early 1950s, most transit systems in the U.S. were privately owned companies that operated as regulated monopolies (like electric utilities today) and expected to provide transit service to an entire city. In exchange, they got the right to be the city's only transit service [...] In the late 1950s, cities took over the bankrupt transit lines and tried to make a go of them, retaining for themselves the monopoly on the right to provide service. In the early 60s the feds became involved in propping those systems up, but without much enthusiasm. Meanwhile, private transit were prevented from driving the streets even when they offered serviced different from the public transit agencies.

One more piece of compelling evidence that monopolies are entirely government-made, not market-made.

[Fatty Bolger]

Monopolies can be market made, but they're always vulnerable. They don't have the longevity of government monopolies, and can be blown up a any time by new technology, consumer preferences, or good old fashioned mismanagement.

[Clich? Bandit]

PLUS there is absolutly nothing wrong with verticals. Period. Horrizontals are tkaen care of in the ways you mentioned but verticals are a different animal entirely.

[Ice Nine]

These kind of transport "systems" are the norm in developing countries. I've used lots of them. They provide geographically comprehensive transportation and they are very efficient.

[Kristen]

I rode the dolmus everywhere in Turkey. Plus, those cars are fricken cool

[Lord Humungus]

Special Report: In France, far right capitalizes on euro crisis
http://ca.news.yahoo.com/speci.....nM-;_ylv=3

This year, five trade unionists have joined the minority party that made its name with the anti-immigrant rhetoric of its founder, Jean-Marie Le Pen. Since January, Le Pen's daughter Marine has been in charge of the party, and Engelmann says she is a magnet.

"It really is the arrival of Marine Le Pen that convinced me to join the National Front," Engelmann told Reuters. "She has an economic program that is much more geared to defending the little people, the workers, the popular classes of France."

[Scruffy Nerfherder]

It was a given that racial tensions would rise over the disintegration of the welfare states.

Since Muslims are the probable bogeymen of the far right parties, I'm waiting for the rise in support of Israel that will probably come with it.

[Lord Humungus]

I had a friend of mine who recently lived in France for a year. He wasn't in Paris, but near Amiens. Long story short, he told me that the Muslim immigrants were hated by the locals, to the point where they were forcibly barred from entering certain bars.

As an American, he expected to be disliked, but the locals ended up buying him free drinks all the time.

[Tim]

It's dawning on them they might need us again soon.

[Ice Nine]

Muslim immigrants were hated by the locals, to the point where they were forcibly barred from entering certain bars.

Shouldn't have been all that difficult since Muslims don't generally frequent bars.

Not surprised about the French treating him well. I've spent a lot of time in France and I've found that though the Frogs are definitely cut from a different bolt of cloth, the whole bit about them being unfriendly pricks is myth generated by the impressions of clueless American tourists who don't know how to behave respectfully.

[Not an Economist]

While I haven't been to France, I have heard that outside of Paris, the French are pretty friendly. Of course, most tourist just stop at Paris.

[R C Dean]

That was my experience, awhile back. Had a wonderful time, didn't speak a word of French, everyone very nice.

[CrackertyAssCracker]

So its like just going to NYC, noticing that people are a little .... curt .... and then generalizing to the whole US?

[Ice Nine]

The Paris thing is overdone too. In all the times I've been in Paris I have never been treated rudely. I'm sure I will be one of these times, of course. But geez, if you go up to a Parisian and say, "Hey, where's the 'Loover'?" and then say it more loudly when he doesn't understand you and then act exasperated, don't be surprised when he acts disgusted. OTOH, if you go up to anyone in Paris and try to ask your question in French, or try to pronounce it from the phrasebook, or hell, just read it from the phrasebook however you make it sound, I guarantee you that 99 out of a hundred of those "rude Parisians" will fall all over you trying to help you - more and more frequently, in English. Show a little respect. You're in their country, they have the lovliest language on the planet - throw 'em a bone and use their language as best you can. They ain't askin' much.

[Fatty Bolger]

Most tourists mainly interact with people doing a job. They're not necessarily friendly. I'm sure that living there would give you an entirely different perspective.

[Clich? Bandit]

agreed.

[cynical]

People that can't drink alcohol make shitty bar customers...

[Joe M]

"It really is the arrival of Marine Le Pen that convinced me to join the National Front,"

Splitter!

[T]

"Billy's joined the National Front
He always was a little runt
He's got his hand in the air with the other cunts"

[MNG]

Future GOP nominee and future GO Partisan "lesser of two evils" on militarism: More, more, more!

Republican presidential hopeful Mitt Romney says he will offer a more assertive foreign policy than President Barack Obama, promising increased military spending, a strong deterrent against Iran and an investment in missile defense systems.

http://www.businessweek.com/ne.....-iran.html

[MNG]

More gems:

"America has the strongest economy and the strongest military in the world. In an American Century, America leads the free world and the free world leads the entire world," Romney will say, according to excerpts of the speech provided by his campaign last night.

Republican presidential candidate Mitt Romney said Thursday America must not economize on security but rather strengthen national defense by rebuilding the Navy and Air Force and adding 100,000 active duty personnel.

Romney said that the defense budget is now about 3.8 percent of the nation's gross domestic product and he would like to see that figure rise to 4 percent.

Romney said the Navy needs more than 300 ships. "We're down to 285 now and we're heading to the low 200s. We can't fulfill our naval missions at those levels," he said.

He said the Air Force is "smaller and older in terms of average age of our equipment than in 1947" and said he would add 100,000 active duty troops to ease the frequent troop rotations in and out of Iraq and Afghanistan.

"These high rotations we are seeing, we should not have to demand of our National Guard and active duty personnel," he said.

He said he would also insure "we treat our veterans the way our veterans deserve to be treated.

http://www.wsmv.com/story/1563.....000-troops

[John]

Maybe we should elect a Democrat President so we can end all those wars and not get into any new ones.

[Old Mexican]

Re: MNG,

"America has the strongest economy and the strongest military in the world. In an American Century, America leads the free world and the free world leads the entire world," Romney will say, according to excerpts of the speech provided by his campaign last night.

He sure sounds a lot like Gallaxhar to me...

[Old Mexican]

Re: MNG,

He [Romney] said the Air Force is "smaller and older in terms of average age of our equipment than in 1947"

But much newer in terms of average age of the equipment than anybody else in the whole fucking world. Besides, most equipment in 1947 was newer because the older equipment was already destroyed in the scrapyard we still call World War II.

Is Paul looking better by the minute or what!

[DJF]

We need more ships so we can send them to Europe to provide a missile defense system that the Europeans don't think is worth paying for themselves.

"""""US will station Aegis cruisers in Spain as part of the missile defense plan for Europe""'

http://www.washingtonpost.com/.....=rss_world

[WTF]

Mitt Romney says he will offer a more assertive foreign policy than President Barack Obama

Because attacking a country that didn't give us cause to and blowing up American citizens based on a secret committee is just not 'assertive' enough. Save us from this fucking Mitthead.

[Restoras]

You mad, bro?

[Lord Humungus]

saw this on Urkobold. I lol'd.
http://urkobold.blogspot.com/2.....alist.html

[Old Mexican]

Occupy D.C. organizers pay Hispanics to show up

The fools. In Mexico, they offer professional protesters a sandwich and a coca-cola and they come like flies.

I tell you, these Dems simply do not know how to reign in spending!

[Abdul]

They tuk our complaining about not having jerbs!

[Apatheist]

Organic free range nonGMO sandwiches don't come cheap.

[Ice Nine]

I tell you, these Dems simply do not know how to reign in spending!

Er, seems to me that is exactly what Obama is doing.

[P Brooks]

Nice link (9:58), Joe M.

Every one of those "99 per cent" retards should read that.

[Kant feel Pietzsche]

Of course, since they are providing a service people want, at a reasonable price, in areas not served by the monopoly government service, they are targeted for harassment. What a fucking surprise.

[P Brooks]

Don't throw the stick. Just let it lie there on the ground.

Eventually, he'll get bored and forget all about his slobbery dog toy, and stop barking.

[P Brooks]

the Air Force is "smaller and older in terms of average age of our equipment than in 1947"

No kidding. Does this mean Mitt thinks it would be a good idea for somebody to shoot all down two thirds of of current air fleet? Has Krugabe joined his economic team?

Shorter Mittinski: "Derp."

[John]

It is also about a million times more powerful. The days of world war II sized armies are over. The weapons are too deadly now.

[dj]

Prisoners being held for the peaceful,non-violent possession,sale,transport or cultivation of cannabis must be released http://wh.gov/gf3
I just started a petition on the White House petitions site, We the People.
Will you sign it? http://wh.gov/gf3
We the People allows anyone to create and sign petitions asking the Obama
Administration to take action on a range of issues. If a petition gets
enough support, the Obama Administration will issue an official response.

[Quetzalcoatl]

And that response, as in the past, will be laughter.

[WH Official Response]

No.

[Kristen]

If a petition gets
enough support, the Obama Administration will issue an official response

My poor little naive puppy. *pats head*

Obama has already issued a response - and it was dismissive fucking laughter.

[P Brooks]

Does this mean Mitt thinks it would be a good idea for somebody to shoot all down two thirds of of current air fleet?

Wow.

Odd, I don't *remember* falling down the stairs...

[Quetzalcoatl]

Solyndra Affair Leads to Its First Resignation

Jonathan Silver, the head of the Energy Department's loan guarantee program which signed off on the controversial loan, has decided to step down as some congressional Republicans have demanded. The Post explains that while the Energy Department made its initial loan to Solyndra before Silver assumed control over the now-defunct loan program, Silver did serve as the administration's point person for the initiative.

Sooooo... scapegoat.

[Solanum]

Charles Napier, RIP

Charles Napier, a character actor who portrayed ruffians, military officers and other strong men in films like the second Rambo movie, but played against type as a judge in "Philadelphia," died on Wednesday in Bakersfield, Calif. He was 75.

Mr. Napier's formidable jaw, gruff demeanor and growling bass voice lent themselves to rugged parts. He played Tucker McElroy, the irate frontman for the country band the Good Ole Boys, in "The Blues Brothers" (1980); Murdock, the villain in "Rambo: First Blood Part II" (1985); and Lt. Bill Boyle, who is murdered by Hannibal Lecter in "The Silence of the Lambs" (1991).

[Pablo]

Silence of the Lambs--best, most terrifying jailbreak scene of all time.

[Adam]

Steppin' into Eden. Yea, brother. Steppin' into Eden. Yea, brother. No more trouble in my body or my mind. Gonna live like a king on whatever find. Eat all the fruit and throw away the rind. Yea, brother.

[Fluffy]

MNG, can you do me a favor and find evidence for me that the Bush administration tried to con Washington Post reporters into writing an article about how bad the flow of guns into Mexico had become, after they deliberately worsened the flow of guns into Mexico?

I'll wait.

Thanks.

[MNG]

fluff

I don't know what to tell you, I think it is a fairly common thing for law enforcment agencies to

1. try to encourage and invite press coverage of the various "scourges" they target and
2. allow illegal transfers they are supposed to combat for a variety of reasons (gather intel, catch more or bigger fish up the network, etc)

I'm guessing these have overlapped and when they do I don't think that proves much.

[MNG]

I mean, even John admits LE agencies targeting, say, drugs, sometimes allow illegal drug sales that they could stop to occur. Certainly these agencies also, and often at the same time, invite press coverage of the "scourge" of drugs, taking them on ride alongs and trying to point out hillbillies with meth-mouth who are neglecting their kids and such.

Likewise, I'm sure the ATF allowed sales of guns to Mexican drug gangs and invited press coverage of the ills of Mexican drug gangs with guns bought in the US.

I'm not sure what we are supposed to conclude from all of that.

[Fluffy]

That the ATF is a corrupt organization pursuing a corrupt policy and that everything they tell us, all the time, is probably a lie?

That seems like the safest conclusion to me.

Frankly if it will make it easier for you I'll give Obama a pass. I'll even give Holder a pass for the policy itself (but not for his perjury to the Congress, of course).

That way you can feel like you've done your duty to your boyfriend Obama and all your blue friends. Let's just make this about the ATF.

Join me in my conclusion and we're square.

[cynical]

At the same time, you must admit that gun sales to foreign drug cartels are a little more dangerous to the general public than drug sales.

I mean, if they were trafficking kidnapped children, and an agency just conducted surveillance without interfering, surely you'd admit that their failure to respond was criminal in nature, yes?

[P Brooks]

The girl on Bloomberg just said the City of New York has spent two million additional dollars on police "protection" related to Occupy Wall Street.

Maybe they should just give each of them fifty dollars and a bus ticket.

[Quetzalcoatl]

Jobs saved and created.

[kilroy]

A bus ticket to the fields in Alabama and Georgia where all those migrant worker jobs are available. A job is a right! Right?

[Tulpa]

Do you mean the cops or the protestors?

[P Brooks]

Given the proven effectiveness of nurses with master's degrees, even some nursing leaders have asked why nurses should be required to get doctorates.

"If it ain't broke, why fix it?" asked Dr. Afaf I. Meleis, dean of the University of Pennsylvania School of Nursing.

Some health care economists say the push for clinical doctorates across health professions could be misguided. They argue that anything requiring students to spend more time and money getting trained will invariably result in longer waits and increased costs for patients, because fewer students will meet the increased requirements and those who do will eventually demand higher compensation.

"Everyone's talking about improving patients' access to care, bending the cost curve and creating team-based care," said Erin Fraher, an assistant professor of surgery and family medicine at the University of North Carolina School of Medicine. "Where's the evidence that moving to doctorates in pharmacy, physical therapy and nursing achieves any of these?"

What a silly question.

[marlok]

Nurses with doctorates will help to fill the hole created by MD's avoiding primary care, whose relatively low reimbursement levels (vs. specialists) continue to be set by the government and insurers, who are in turn heavily regulated by the government.

[P Brooks]

-That the ATF United States Government is a corrupt organization pursuing a corrupt policy and that everything they tell us, all the time, is probably a lie?-

I couldn't resist.

[Mike M.]

Israeli scientist Dan Shechtman wins Nobel Prize in chemistry for Quasicrystals discovery.

"Shechtman persevered in the face of doubt and ridicule in describing a form of crystal whose patterns are regular but never repeat, a notion that shattered scientists' belief that all crystals consist of recurring patterns. The structure endows quasicrystals with unique properties that may lead to better frying pans, LED lights and diesel engines, the academy said."...

"Scientists greeted Shechtman's discovery with resistance, even ridicule, the committee said. The head of his laboratory suggested he read a textbook on crystallography. When Shechtman persisted in his experiments, he was asked to leave the research group."

Gee, does this stuff sound familiar at all to anyone? Sometimes the ironclad scientific "consensus" turns out to be dead wrong. Congratulations to Dr. Shechtman.

[Clich? Bandit]

LOUIS A. FRANK!!!!

Seriously, this has been the problem with the scientific community for deacades. When it is ok for an egyptologist to ask a geologist "Where are the pot sherds?" how can we expect sciece to advance? The geologist said the rock was eroded by water...do your own fucking job.

There are dozens of such stories and often the persecuted are eventually vindicated because well, truth is truth.

[Tulpa]

I for one support giving extra prescribing power to nurses. The prescription should take the form of walking to the shelf where the medicine is stored and bringing it to the cashier.

This power should also be given to construction workers, bus boys, assistant crack whores, students, cobblers, etc.

[nicole]

Uh oh. Last week I find out Tulpa is young, this week I found out we agree on something.