Reason Morning Links: Willard Romney Weighs In on Occupy Wall Street, HHS Blocks Pot-Based PTSD Study, Senate Dem Calls for Obama to Justify Anwar al-Awlaki's Assassination

• GOP frontrunner Willard Romney on Occupy Wall Street: "I think it's dangerous, this class warfare."
• The Department of Health and Human Services is refusing to sell marijuana to a research team conducting a PTSD study, claiming that the drug may be "diverted" and given to nonparticipants. 
• Sen. Carl Levin (D-Mich.) wants President Obama to release the memo that justifies assassinating U.S. citizens. 
• White House and DOJ scream at CBS reporter over "Fast and Furious" story. 
• The IRS could kill pot shops. 
• Inside the EuroTARP plan. 

New at Reason.tv: "Couple Heading to Court after Hosting Home Bible Study! (Nanny of the Month, Sept 2011)"

Comments

[Warty]

Jesus, Lord Humongus. How's you manage that?

[Lord Humungus]

There has been too much violence, too much pain. None here are without sin.
But I have an honorable compromise. Just walk away. Give me the pump, the oil, the gasoline, and the whole compound, and I'll spare your lives.

[*]

Seems like a reasonable chap.

[Bod]

You have my vote, if you can also get the high-speed trains to run on time.

[Lord Humungus]

No trains. Only V8s running on mud-soaked guzzoline.

[BakedPenguin]

Another one Rick Perry was too much of a pussy to kill.

[Ice Nine]

Maybe he'll go to Zihuatanejo.

[Lord Humungus]

This has been making the rounds on Facebook:
http://img849.imageshack.us/img849/1303/the99.png

These are not angstful youths outraged by their own sense of entitlement. They are hardworking honest people, loved and missed by their friends and family, who died needlessly because of corporate greed and governmental indifference.

They are the 99%, or at least they used to be.

[Xenocles]

Technically, I'm part of "the 99%" and I think these Wall Street protesters should die in a fire. That's the problem with casting such a wide net.

[o2]

why ? they're peacefully exercising their constitutional rights which libtoids claim to support

[Maxxx]

True.

I think they should just starve to death since they refuse to earn a living.

[teh rael o2]

course u cant know that.

[FlyoverCountry]

I think it's pretty fair to assume that most aren't earning a living, since they have the time to sit for three weeks in a park.

I have a very flexible job, and I would be canned like whoa if I was gone for three weeks.

[Art-P.O.G.]

Really? That's what they're going with?

[John]

Bad things happen, therefore we should throw out a system that has made us the wealthiest country in history and replace it with a bunch of incoherent policies that somewhat resemble a system that enslaved, murdered and impoverished millions within living memory. What could possibly go wrong?

[SugarFree]

Let them go buck wild. Kill that evil 1% and redistribute the money. And then kill the next top 1% that have more money than the rest. Then the next 1% and the next 1% until all that's left are 15 fucking idiots too stupid to feed themselves sitting in a circle obsessed that the guy next to them might maybe have just a little bit more then they do. And then the knives come out.

[John]

^^This^^

[Aqua-Assualt Rabbit]

Let's go all PolPot on their asses.
It's the only answer.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v.....w&index=43

[Pope Jimbo]

Hah! Jokes on you SF. The killings would stop when the population dropped below 100. Why? Because that is when the evil 1% will be less than 1 human.

Of course my theory is based on the assumption that the survivors could do the math.

[JW]

Of course my theory is based on the assumption that the survivors could do the math.

The self-generated pictures of these half-wits invalidates your theory.

[SugarFree]

$56,000 on a art degree to give you the skillz to take a picture of yourself in a mirror with a phone.

No. They cannot do math.

[Butts Wagner]

"Theory of how to angle your mirror shot to hide your double chin"

[Maxxx]

Let them go buck wild. Kill that evil 1% and redistribute the money. And then kill the next top 1% that have more money than the rest....

It's not in a parasite's interest to kill it's host.

Besides the douchebags at these protests don't have the initiative to get laid in a whorehouse.

[Potsherder]

It's not in a parasite's interest to kill it's host.

[Potsherder]

forgot to add:

I'm sure, Maxxx, that sentiment is reassuring to the hundreds of thousands of people who die annually from malaria.

[Maxxx]

Did you just insult plasmodiums?

Specist.

[Proprietrist]

First they came for the bankers...

[Pip]

+1%

[Monty]

Epic movie?

[PS]

Ya tvoi sluga
Ya tvoi rabotnik

[Michael]

So since they "used to be", what does that put the actual percentage at?

[Metazoan]

Hm foreclosure on house that her late husband "built with his own hands." That's nice, did she borrow against it? Oh, she did? Whose problem is that?

[Dead Idiot]

The banks made me do it!

[Red Rocks Rockin]

How does someone get foreclosed on a house they built themselves? Or does "built" in this case mean he spackled holes in the drywall and threw a couple coats of paint on it?

[Fist of Etiquette]

"They will tell you that I'm the only reporter, as they told me, that is not reasonable. They say The Washington Post is reasonable, the LA Times is reasonable, The New York Times is reasonable ? I'm the only one who thinks this is a story, and they think I'm unfair and biased by pursuing it."

Every economist journalist agrees with my plan that this is a non-story.

[Bee Tagger]

Yeah, everyone is focusing on the screaming and yelling when they should be focusing on just how much the WH thinks they (and, apparently, they do) influence those other papers.

[JD]

I'm absolutely shocked that the Washington Post, LA Times, and NY Times do whatever this White House tells them to do regarding a story. Shocked, I tell you!

[John]

But remember leftwing bias in the media is just a meme. The fact that the White House thinks that the LA Times, NYT, and WaPo will gladly do its bidding means nothing.

[sloopyinca]

I really don't get the WH love for the LAT on this story. I've been following their coverage of it, and theirs is by far the most thorough and unflattering of all print media.

[John]

Maybe it is just by reflex. But Atkisson must be doing some real damage or they wouldn't be so panicked.

[02]

consensus is its not a big deal its just a meme to foam the wingnutz

[John]

Dumping thousands of guns into a foreign country that result in hundreds of deaths and then lying about it to Congress. Of course it is not a big deal. You just killed some people. Shit liberals have been doing that by the millions of over a hundred years now. What is a few hundred dead Mexicans?

[MNG]

These kinds of programs are always full of moral peril. I don't buy the conspiracy version of the theory John and the other Movement Faithful do but heads should roll over this.

When law enforcment allows or actually participates in drug buys and then the drugs later cause, say, an overdose or an accident that kills someone then heads should roll. It would make them less likely to try this risky type of programs.

The idea is that if they can allow to be sold or sell some drugs or in this case guns they can make arrests that will disrupt future gun and drug sales and save more lives in the end. But that is very risky, maybe it will, maybe it won't, and even if it were so you still have the government largely culpable for terrible results.

[mng]

What's a few hundred dead to the cause of gun control?

[MNG]

I don't support gun control idiot.

Further, there is nothing but suspicion and conjecture upon which to rest the conclusion that this program, which parrotted longstanding and common law enforcement techniques, was motivated solely or even mainly by that.

[John]

When law enforcment allows or actually participates in drug buys and then the drugs later cause, say, an overdose or an accident that kills someone then heads should roll. It would make them less likely to try this risky type of programs.

That never happens anywhere outside of your head. Go find a case where it does. They don't just let drugs out on the street like that. They arrest people after they make the sale. They don't just let the drug go. They couldn't. If they did, the drugs would be gone and they would have no case.

So unless you can show us a link to where this actually happened, shut up with this fantasy. I have worked with law enforcement on and off for over ten years and I can assure you that is not how it works.

And spare us with the "heads should roll" unless you say whose heads. Otherwise you are just pulling our dicks.

[MNG]

"They arrest people after they make the sale."

That's hilarious John. You mean they never let a drug deal go down with the hope of catching later drug dealers? That's absurd and you actually know it at some level that exists behind your fevered partisan consciouss mind.

[John]

No, as soon as you make the controlled buy, you go in and bust in the door and arrest the seller. That is how it works. Further, if you are buying the drugs you are not putting drugs on the street so that doesn't fit your analogy. For you analogy to work, police would have to sell large amounts of drugs and then not arrest the buyers and just let the drugs go on the street. That never happens.

You literally know nothing about this subject. You are just pulling fantasies out of your ass to deny the obvious. I do. How many drug dealers have you ever put in jail or prosecuted? About ten less than I have would be my guess.

[MNG]

Oh fuck you John, how many have you prosecuted? I know plenty of cops, a vice detective happens to be in my family. Especially at the lower levels they will observe sales, say on a street corner, for weeks before even thinking about moving in on people.

[John]

If you do, then think about what you are saying. You can't just sell large amounts of drugs without arresting people. It wouldn't happen. You want the drugs you sell to be on the person you sold them to for trial.

[MNG]

"You want the drugs you sell to be on the person you sold them to for trial."

You are such an idiot. Sometimes they want someone other than the person right in front of them doing the sale John, other sellers and higher-ups Mr. Prosecutor. Never heard of that?

Jesus you are more full of shit than a sewer sometimes.

[John]

And how do you get that other person MNG. It sure as hell isn't by losing track of the drugs. Maybe they sold it to a carrier. Okay, then they follow the carrier back to where he came from and bust the guy he gives drugs to his higher up. But what they don't do is just let him take the drugs and not follow him and not track the drugs or make an arrest or let the drugs go to another country without involving that country's law enforcement.

And that is what they did in Gun Walker. They just sold the guns and let them go to Mexico, never told the Mexican authorities, and had no way of tracking them or ever making an arrest once the guns left.

Just give it up. All you can do is make up cop show fantasies and shout insults. There is no logical explanation for gun walker other than they just wanted a bunch of America guns too show up in Mexican crime scenes. And indeed, that is why the ATF agents on the ground had a fit about the program. They knew it was crazy. But the higher ups wanted it done.

[MNG]

Let's say drugs are being sold in a place. You think the first time that cops happen upon it and see a deal they arrest the people? They never see some deals and allow them to build a case against the people or other people who, I dunno, might also frequent the place and buy drugs but won't if a drug bust goes down there?

Answer that question before we go any further John, it's a simple one.

[John]

Generally yes, they do arrest people. They do stings to get petty users all of the time. Now if you want to get dealers, you need to buy from them. So, most cases made against dealers don't fit the analogy because the cops are not putting drugs on the street. They are buying drugs and taking those drugs off of the street.

You can't just go down to Wall Mart and get drugs to use in a sting. It is a real pain in the ass to get drugs to sell. For a drug operation to be the same as gun walker, the cops would have to first obtain large amounts of drugs, not that easy and a nightmare of paper work, and then sell those drugs. Sell to whom? To dealers, dealers have their own drugs. They sell. To users? Sure, but users don't have bosses. Sell to a user and you can just bust him for buying from you and that is it. I guess you could design a scheme where you supplied drugs to local dealers. But why do that? The local dealers are selling. You just pretend to be a buyer and buy the drugs from them and avoid all of the paper work.

I just cannot see a situation where the police would ever take a large amount of drugs and sell those drugs to people and then let the drugs just walk away not just to the local area but to a foreign country and all the while not even inform the other country the drugs are coming.

It makes no sense. And neither does gun walker.

[MNG]

It's incredible to claim that the cops never witness a drug sale and decline to move in on that sale in order to gain intelligence or not alert a "bigger fish" that a case is being built against them. Absurd.

[John]

Without the drugs in hand MNG, they can't prove that it was a drug sale they witnessed. Now they may watch people going in and out of a house and figure, yeah they are buying drugs there. But at that point they don't have probable cause. They will have to go do a controlled buy to make their case.

For a drug operation to be analogous to gun walker, the cops would have to sell large amounts of drugs and let those drugs disappear. And that would never happen.

[Abdul]

Here's the better liberal talking point:

Conservatives always say "guns don't kill people." So now, why are they complaining about guns in a sting operation "walking" and killing people?

But the reality is that prudent investigators take care not to allow dangerous contraband to get loose when conducting sting operations. Hell, we'd have a right to be pissed if the Secret Service allowed millions in counterfeit currency to "walk" in a sting operation.

Whether this was done by design in order to create a problem that only more gun control could solve, or was just plain incompetence doesn't matter.

[MNG]

Abdul

Most of what happened here was the allowance of illegal gun purchases that they could have stopped.

Do you have any idea how frequently cops allow drugs to be sold in front of them without running out immediately and arresting the people? They do it all the time so they can nail more people. That's a lot of drugs that go past them and to suggest they keep track of it all is frankly hilarious.

[John]

Allowing drugs to be sold by a criminal in front of them is different than the cop selling the drugs or ordering the drugs sold himself, which is what happened here.

[MNG]

Ah, now we get John's slide down the hill!

So you concede that it is common for cops to allow contraband to be sold and not intervene?

[John]

No it is not common. What good does it do you? You have to make a case. At most you would let the buy happen and follow the guy to his bosses house. But you would never just let the drugs walk and lose track of them. Without the drugs and the accused in possession of them, you have no case.

[MNG]

You allow the drugs to be sold to arrest more people later John. There could be many people there later buying drugs, or bigger fish, but they won't come there and buy drugs if you make a bust right there.

Look, talk to any vice cop. It's common. Everyone can see you're backing away from it now trying to focus on the cops actually doing the selling. You know you overstated, just come clean.

[John]

You allow the drugs to be sold to arrest more people later John. There could be many people there later buying drugs, or bigger fish, but they won't come there and buy drugs if you make a bust right there.

How do you arrest anyone if you lose track of the drugs. For your case to work, you have to follow the drugs and then arrest people as they are being sold. But that is not what happened in gun walker. The lost track of the guns and knew they were going to lose track of the guns. So your example doesn't fit the analogy.

[Abdul]

I have a great idea about that. But those are drugs, and the consumers are inviting the risk. Even then, cops make an effort not to allow the drugs to walk. You know why? It's evidence--you have to bring it to court in order to get a conviction.

And seriously, can't you see the difference between a dimebags slipping though the cracks to junkies who invite the risk and the most violent organized crime syndicates in the world getting contraband guns?

[MNG]

"I have a great idea about that."

Don't tell John that, upthread he's dying on that hill. He says it NEVER happens!

[MNG]

"can't you see the difference between a dimebags slipping though the cracks to junkies who invite the risk and the most violent organized crime syndicates in the world getting contraband guns?"

Of course. Abdul I think allowing drug sales makes the cops complicit in any harms that follow those sales, so imagine how much more I oppose allowing these types of gun sales.

I'm not excusing this by pointing out it follows a common law enforcement model, far from it as I condemn the model. I'm simply saying that since the model it follows is so common one doesn't need any further motive for the program to make sense of it. Since all people like John have to argue for another motive is that political reasons are the only sensible motive it sinks his entire argument...

[Fluffy]

Since we now know Holder lied to the Congress about being briefed about this program, why should we believe anything about the administration's defense of their actions here?

You are seriously starting to sound like the last defenders of Nixon in 74.

[John]

MNG is a true Obama deadender. They will eventually find the smoking gun email that shows why they did gun walker and he will still be on here saying it was just negligence. He will die a thousand deaths on this hill. And I don't know why.

[MNG]

If Holder lied about that then he should be responsible for his lie.

Again, this is a common thing police do, allowing sales of contraband to gain intelligence and build cases. From the start I've said it is morally stupid. Whoever came up with and authorized the program should be punished.

But I'm not going to go out on a limb and speculate about a wild conspiracy theory when it all makes sense as a negligently operated example of a common law enforcment strategy. Wild speculation based on partisan hate is John's area, not mine.

[John]

"Again, this is a common thing police do, allowing sales of contraband to gain intelligence and build cases."

No it is not. Not within the context of letting the contraband out of your sight much less letting it go to another country. That is where you logic fails. Okay, so I let the drug deal go and then let the person walk. And then I lose track of the drugs and the person. How do I have a case? Without the drugs I could never prove in court that drugs were sold. All I saw was white powder, that doesn't prove the case. You have to have the drugs themselves to make your case.

[MNG]

You have an amazedly limited imagination John, something quite terrible for a man who is putting foward such a sensationalistic argument resting solely on the grounds "it must have happened this way because we can't imagine any other way to make sense of it."

A cop comes across a crack house selling crack. You really want to argue they immediately run in and arrest people? They don't ever set up surveillance and take photos of the people that come and go, tracking them, getting intelligence on when the drug shipments come to the house and who brings them and then following them back, etc? That never happens? You can't imagine how that would be useful to a vice squad?

Come down the hill young man, come down.

[John]

Sure they do, but they did none of that stuff in gun walker. There was no surveillance and no way to track the guns once they reached Mexico. That is why it could not have been a legitimate law enforcement operation. Look at all of the things that are occurring in your example that didn't occur in gun walker.

Stop being such a smug prick and just admit the obvious for once.

[MNG]

"Sure they do, but they did none of that stuff in gun walker."

Now we get the famous John Two-Step fluffy spoke of. After denying it for post after post John finally comes down the hill and admits that what I said is true, police allow sales of contraband that they could stop to go on sometimes.

And, in the famous step two, he wants to change the goalposts. All this time we've been talking about whether they allow sales to occur, him denying, now he goes "yes, but what about selling the drugs themselves?"

Jesus you are predictable and tiresome.

You also concede, as you must given even recent news about the FBI actually selling that terrorist explosives and weapons, that law enforcement will even sell the contraband goods themselves in order to make a LATER bust. The only point you have left is that in the cases of that you know of law enforcement is careful to monitor and control the sale they made and keep track of it and here they were much less careful.

So we end up where I began, that this has all the hallmarks of a commonly used law enforcment program carried out with criminal levels of negligence.

And I've wasted another hour arguing with a partisan doing his usual Two-Step.

But not another hour. Sheesh, later.

[MNG]

"They don't just let drugs out on the street like that. They arrest people after they make the sale. They don't just let the drug go."

"That never happens anywhere outside of your head. Go find a case where it does."

John|10.5.11 @ 10:59AM|#
Sure they do,

[John]

There is a difference between letting a sale happen and causing the sale or selling the stuff your self. The ATF did the latter and not just with one or two guns but with hundreds of guns.

That is today's piece of sophistry. You get me to talk about how cops don't sell large amounts of drugs to people and let those drugs disappear into the world. And then you point to a case where cops may let a few suspected sales happen and act like that is the same thing. It is not.

[John]

It is not that they failed to monitor and control the contraband. It is that there was no way the operation could have ever monitored and controlled the contraband. That is why it wasn't and could not have been a valid law enforcement operation. If it had been there would have been some mechanism to track and control those guns.That is the whole point.

You have basically conceded the entire case. ATF built a program with no monitoring or control that could have never resulted in the vast majority of those guns ever being recovered anywhere but a Mexican crime scene.

There is no way to explain that other than to say they wanted those guns recovered at Mexican crime scene.

The facts are what they are. And no one on this board agrees with you. You just scream and throw out insults because you know there is no other way to explain this but can't accept the truth.

[Citizen Custer]

Jesus. Fluffy should charge you a commission as often as you cite him.

[R C Dean]

Didn't we already go through this once?

I seem to recall asking MNG if he knew of any examples of DEA stings where large quantities of cocaine were repeatedly released into the wild, over the course of months, before a single arrest was made.

[John]

We have been through it a million times. But MNG will continue to defend the indefensible and pettifog the issue to the maximum extent.

[Fatty Bolger]

They will eventually find the smoking gun email that shows why they did gun walker

Maybe, maybe not. Unlike MNG I find the idea that this was politically motivated to be entirely plausible, but would they really commit something like that to paper? Any strategy behind the program would be from the top of the agency, and unknown to the agents doing the implementation. From all indications, the agents involved were perplexed and upset by this, and did question the wisdom of letting these guns walk.

Also, it should be noted that, as of yet, there is no indication of any direct involvement by Obama.

One interesting tidbit is that Fast & Furious was funded with stimulus funds. How screwed up is that? Stimulus money was used to set up illegal purchases of guns that were deliberately allowed to be transported to Mexico, where they were later used in crimes, including the murder of an American border agent.

[John]

I was kidding fatty. I doubt they will find the smoking gun email. Although considering how much DOJ is stonewalling, they might. There are clearly some really embarrassing stuff they don't want released. And don't under estimate people's stupidity when it comes to e-mails.

[Gray Ghost]

Unlike MNG I find the idea that this was politically motivated to be entirely plausible, but would they really commit something like that to paper?

I'd think they'd have to. Place yourself in the shoes of a district head at BATFE. Are you going to knowingly cause 1000s of firearms to be sold to straw buyers and worse without something in writing from a higher-up telling you this was O.K? Would you trust an oral agreement or handshake from this Administration? Would anyone who would, be canny enough to ascend to a director-level position in law enforcement (LE)?

No, I think there's a recording, if not an actual memo of understanding, that'll come out once the right people in BATFE or FBI get a visit from the special prosecutor's office, and everyone's immunity deals are hashed out. Assuming a special prosecutor ever gets appointed...

One thing I can see coming out is a claim that Mexican LE officials assured U.S. LE that the guns could be tracked, that allowing the sales would be helpful for Mexican LE goals, etc...the "he said he wanted me to hit him" defense.

[Fatty Bolger]

@Gray Ghost: I'm sure there were authorizations, written and otherwise. What I doubt is that the true motivation for the program would be written down.

[o2]

You keep making yourselves look foolish by trying to mock me.

[teh rael o2]

^john its a spoof

[Proprietrist]

We can tell. It used proper English.

[not the real o2]

spoffing is justs to foam the cafe latte liberals

[o2]

It is extraordinarily inappropriate of you to try to mock me by using my name and use improper grammar and spelling to try and discredit my ideas. Can you not debate my ideas on their merits?

[Art-P.O.G.]

The Department of Health and Human Services is refusing to sell marijuana to a research team conducting a PTSD study, claiming that the drug may be "diverted" and given to nonparticipants.

Good Lord. You'd think it was plutonium instead of marihuana (sic).

[Ice Nine]

God only know how else nonparticipants could ever obtain any of the stuff. I'm worried about them maybe going mad from "withdrawals."

[chaussures air max]

Bonne continuation

[Warty]

Look at This Fucking 99 Percenter

ME WANT EAT RICH

[Xenocles]

It's not a fair translation absent specific evidence, but sadly it does happen. I don't have sympathy for those who (unexpectedly!) are separated by military orders. It happens, it's part of the lifestyle. Deal with it, relocate yourself, or break up.

[Xenocles]

Just to be clear: no civilian military spouse is stuck where she was before her spouse's transfer. She for whatever reason has chosen to stay there. It might be a good one - jobs or family problems are two that come to mind - but it's still entirely her choice.

[Warty]

At least some are fakes. I hope more are.

[Ice Nine]

I thought cat food is what poor people were forced to eat. This guy is in trouble.

[Warty]

Cat food again

[John]

Why the fuck doesn't she just move where her husband is? I am supposed to give up everything I have earned so she doesn't feel inconvenienced? I wish I could bring my grandparents back to life and lock these dipshits in a room with them so they could educate them on what hardship actually is.

[PoliteEdward]

>I wish I could bring my grandparents back to life...so they could educate them on what hardship actually is

Like being dead.

[Mainer]

" I wish I could bring my grandparents back to life and lock these dipshits in a room with them so they could educate them on what hardship actually is"

My dad is 86 years old, grew up during the depression. And he has said repeatedly, we should never feel sorry for his generation. It's his parents generation that lived through the hardships, but didn't live long enough to partake of the post war boom.

People today have never gone to bed hungry, but cry about hardship.

[Fatty Bolger]

I've explained to my kids that just a handful of generations ago, Americans spent half of their time working just so they would have enough to eat.

I suppose we could go back to that, if these idiots got their way.

[Coeus]

Why the fuck doesn't she just move where her husband is?

Cause she likes all the random dick?

[Abdul]

I am 99%.

I lived within my means, didn't rack up stupid debts, and now I can support a family of 5 and still invest money at the end of each paycheck.

I am the part of the 99 percent that pays for layabout feather merchants to post their iphone photos and sad-sack stories with no accountabiliyt for poor life-choices (majored in art history? Really?) on the internet.

[John]

I am in that too. I never bought a house during the boom and paid down my debts instead. Now thanks to the inflated real estate market, I am better off renting and I never made off with a big fat profit from flipping a house. I can't live the American dream. Where the fuck is my pony?

[JW]

I think that makes you a 1 percenter.

Clearly, being prudent and having one fucking ounce of common sense is something that eludes the other 99%.

[flye]

Thank you for that first link -- made my morning to see someone complaining about being $60K in student loan debt for a BA in Theatre.

[Warty]

I have a cousin who took on $80K to get a degree in theatrical lighting. I'm waiting for her to appear on there.

[John]

"Theatrical lighting? No shit? I would think you would get into a career like that by just going down and working at a theater and having someone teach you how to do it. It is like getting a degree in sound boards and PA systems.

[Warty]

She wanted to go to beauty school after high school, but my aunt made her do the proper thing and go to college. Feminists continue to ruin lives.

[John]

College for many women is just finishing school. And an expensive one at that. They keep talking about how more women going to college is bad for men. When the higher ed bubble finally collapses men will consider themselves lucky.

[Aqua-Assualt Rabbit]

The ladies at Jezebel say college men are lazy.
http://jezebel.com/5846567/stu.....lege-women

Lazy like a fox I say.

[John]

It is because there are so many more women than men. Young men now live the lives of lazy tom cats. And I am pretty damned bitter and angry that I am just a bit too old to have missed out on it.

[Au H20]

Seriously, read the comments there at jez. That is some of the most man hating, us vs them bullshit I have ever seen. I'm at the airport, but otherwise I'd post examples.

[John]

Oh God. When they get called out for it their response is that men privileged so it is okay to hate them as a group and be a complete bigot.

I just feel sorry for those women. They must really hate themselves and the world around them.

[Warty]

SarahMC @RobertaSandolva
I know, I know--members of the dominant group(s) like to police communication among those they dominate, as that is a threat to their unearned privilege. I won't step out of line again.

[OO=========D]

I EARNED my privileges, bitches.

[Au H20]

Well, speaking of gawker media, they had an article about female friendship the other day at gawker. The comments? All some variation of,"I don't trust women with all-male or mostly male friends. They just do it for attention!" Anyone dissenting was called a misogyist with low self esteem. The jezzies hate everyone, dude.

[Red Rocks Rockin]

All some variation of,"I don't trust women with all-male or mostly male friends. They just do it for attention!" Anyone dissenting was called a misogyist with low self esteem.

LOL at the complete lack of self-awareness in those comments. I've had female friends tell me straight up that they don't trust most women and prefer the company of men because there's no pretense with them.

It's ironic that a whole group of women and feminized men who've never gotten over being left out of the "Cool Girls" clique in high school, 20 years after the fact, now can't understand why a woman would prefer having male friends.

[Coeus]

... just when women became the majority of students at universities... suddenly degrees aren't worth shit... quelle surprise. Everytime we try, the bastards move the goal posts.

Waa, Waa. The totally predictable consequence of adding worthless degrees and removing parts of tests that women do worse on has happened.

I bet she blames the bankers.

[Red Rocks Rockin]

Waa, Waa. The totally predictable consequence of adding worthless degrees and removing parts of tests that women do worse on has happened.

Funny that adding a bunch of women-centered degree programs resulted in a bunch of graduates with a credential that's completely worthless in the real world. At least the ones who go into accounting or chemical engineering emerge with real skills.

[flye]

Too rig to fail?

Come back to me I can do better...

[Red Rocks Rockin]

I have a cousin who took on $80K to get a degree in theatrical lighting. I'm waiting for her to appear on there.

Was that "Elizabeth" from yesterday's Poverty thread?

[Old Soldier]

I love that site. The Fail is strong with these - but it must be the fault of corporations.

[Ice Nine]

Michael Moore: "I think that, not only is this going to continue, these cities that you mentioned. This is what is so wonderful about this. There really isn't anything driving this other than what Wall Street has done

Oh how that fat fuck and his drones yearn for a cool Tea Party all of their very own.

[Abdul]

I didn't want a student loan, but then this slick talking guy in a three piece suit gave me a semester of anthropology for free. Just a little bump to get me through a rough fall.

Next thing I know, I'm taking sociology, deconstructing feminist marxism, and badminton for my phys ed requirement. I'm strung out on liberal arts and up to my molars in student loan debt.

Things got so bad that I had to work at starbucks! I thought about turning tricks, but why would I ruin my hobby with evil profits?

[Trespassers W]

The win is strong with this one.

[Art-P.O.G.]

Indeed.

[Trespassers W]

The win is strong with this one.

[JW]

:::applause:::

[rac3rx]

No, what's driving this is basically the same tired group of fellow travelers.

http://biggovernment.com/lstra.....aux-tests/

http://biggovernment.com/aim/2.....-protests/

[Fatty Bolger]

Somebody remind Moore that he's a 1 percenter. What a douche.

[WTF]

Jesus Christ, those posts made me want to reach through the monitor and punch some faces. "I made bad choices, now everyone else should pay for the consequences! WAHHH!!!." Fuck you, assholes.

[Atanarjuat]

"I made mostly prudent decisions and when I made bad ones I learned from it. I don't expect anyone else to pay for my shit. I am the 1%."

[Drax the Destroyer]

According to these fucks, you (and me) will be the first to die in the revolution's re-education camps. The worst sin in their book is claiming responsibility for yourself.

[ermmm]

This stuff is monocle porn...and has had me fappin' to their misery all morning.

[Fluffy]

Monocle porn may be the best new expression of the 10's.

[Citizen Nothing]

I concur, old chaps.

[Band Name?]

Monocle Porn

[ermmm]

OH YESSSS *splooge*

[Proprietrist]

I spend my days toiling away at the monocle factory. Nights, I act as both ottoman and concubine to the Monopoly man. Despite working 70+ hours a week, I still can barely afford to shop at Whole Foods to feed my seven mongoloid children. I'm $10 thousand in student loan debt - in my free time, I take online courses in Feminist anthropology, pursuing my lifelong dream of bringing down the patriarchy.

I am the 99 percent.

(sent from my iPhone)

[Drax the Destroyer]

Ahhh...so that's where the WIN was hiding.

[Abdul]

I'll admit that it trumps mine.

[Lord Humungus]

Pushing a Dead Jobs Bill
http://politicalwire.com/archi....._bill.html

Although it is clear that President Obama doesn't have the votes -- either in the House or the Senate -- to pass his American Jobs Act, The Hill notes that this "will not stop Obama from talking about the jobs bill and nothing else" for a while to come.

"That's because the White House hopes the president's steady drumbeat of "pass the bill" can become a rallying cry for his supporters even if it doesn't create a single job... What matters to the White House are the politics of the battle. The president's advisers want to ensure Obama has a vehicle to get him on the right side of the fear and loathing America feels toward Washington... Instead, they know the bill will be broken up, and smaller battles will break out, giving Obama smaller victories that officials hope will add up to a big win next November. But more important than that are the myriad opportunities available this fall and winter for Congress to act like Congress and for Obama to call them out for doing so."

[kilroy]

There's no point beating a dead horse except, of course, for the pure joy of it.

-Very OLD SNL

[teh rael o2]

except it wont be dead on the campaign trail & serves to neutralize the gop hogwash

[Pablo]

So this bill has no chance of passing but he's going to waste a lot of time talking about it anyway? To score political points? Or just for the lulz?

[Fatty Bolger]

Political points, of course. He's trying to build up the "Republican obstructionism" meme. "I did the best I could, folks, but the Republicans blocked me at every turn." I don't think it will fly, but what else does he have?

[Maxxx]

I said all along that the republicans should pass whatever Obama sends them thereby forcing Obama to own the coming second dip.

Then repeal it all in '13.

[Mainer]

Have any Dems in the House or the Senate introduced an actual piece of legislation? As I understand it, they have not, so there isn't a "bill", there's just Obama talking.

[R C Dean]

Has the President's jobs bill even been introducted yet?

[R C Dean]

Err, what Mainer said.

[Lord Humungus]

they're working on it...
http://apnews.myway.com/articl.....39L00.html

Senate Democrats are scrambling to rewrite portions of President Barack Obama's jobs bill as they seek elusive party unity around the measure even as Obama tries to pin the blame squarely on Republicans for Congress' failure to act.

[Red Rocks Rockin]

Senate Democrats are scrambling to rewrite portions of President Barack Obama's jobs bill as they seek elusive party unity around the measure

I'd love to find out what exactly they are haggling over.

[Fist of Etiquette]

The IRS could kill pot shops.

This story kind of goes against the idea that the government, in its own financial self interest, will cave in to legalizing marijuana for the tax revenue.

[NeonCat]

When the Justice Department couldn't stop Capone, they made sure IRS/Treasury did.

[chaussures air max]

xixi

[Art-P.O.G.]

Sen. Carl Levin (D-Mich.) wants President Obama to release the memo that justifies assassinating U.S. citizens.

Is Ashcroft involved somehow?

[cheney]

since ashcroft's still in coma, i'll sign for him

[Lord Humungus]

Euro Zone Private Sector Shrinks First Time in 2 Years
http://www.cnbc.com/id/44782506

The euro zone's private sector contracted for the first time in two years last month, shrinking faster than first reported as new business dried up while the debt crisis cut expectations for the future to two-year lows, surveys showed on Wednesday.

[Tim]

"The Department of Health and Human Services is refusing to sell marijuana to a research team ..."

Buck up, ATF will still sell you AK-47's!

[some guy]

AK-47's for PTSD research? Nothing can go wrong here.

[Ice Nine]

Well, I guess we know now why he calls himself "Mitt."

[Bee Tagger]

The IRS could kill pot shops.

Leave it to the squares at the IRS to bogart all the pot shops.

[sarcasmic]

Megan Fox is still hot.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvs.....tment.html

[Warty]

She looks the same as Sasha Grey and has a fraction of the talent.

[Abdul]

Only Brian Austin Green (and 3 dozen hollywood producers) knows for sure about her talents.

[JD]

To be fair, we haven't had the chance to observe her talent as we have had the chance to observe Sasha Grey's. I vote we withhold judgement until Fox gives us the evidence we need to more fully evaluate her talent.

[John]

Too many tattoos. Makes her look like a skank.

[sarcasmic]

A damn fuckable skank.

[John]

Yeah. I just hate tattoos so much. Ruins it for me.

[Art-P.O.G.]

I think they're hot (most of the time). But I'm not a Megan Fox fan.

[T]

The creepy stubby thumbs weird me out.

[Drax the Destroyer]

They are hot on her until he skin turns into catcher's mitt leather in 10-30 years. But yeah. She's hot now.

Speaking of cathcer's mitt leather, is Tara Reid dead yet?

[Tim]

"like" a skank?

[Warty]

In Penn Jillette's new book, he talks about how everyone has tattoos now - you even have Miss Americas with tramp stamps, and that's too bad. Not because it makes Miss Americas look like sluts, but because it makes sluts look like Miss Americas. He likes sluts.

[sarcasmic]

He likes sluts.

Who doesn't?

[Pope Jimbo]

I was just telling a younger worker that I am so glad that I missed a couple of opportunities to get a tattoo while I was in the service (either no money, or no clean shop).

Back in my day a tattoo signified that you did something pretty stupid (joined a biker gang, enlisted in the service, went to prison, or decided to bang guys who belonged to the first three groups).

Now everyone has them without having to do anything to earn them.

[o2]

how is military service "pretty stupid" ?

[Citizen Custer]

Duh.

[Warty]

Before doing something, always say to yourself, "Self, would that colossal idiot Orrin do this?" If the answer is yes, please don't do it.

[o2]

lol well i r smart and i served but i got brian dmg from srapnle lol

[Devil's Advocate]

That's an ugly tat, too (and was even before she got it partially removed). It seems to me if you are going to make a permanent mark on a prominent part on your body it should be tasteful.

[Atanarjuat]

She's a Craig Ferguson fan apparently.

[Geoff Peterson]

Balls!

[Lord Humungus]

"Eight new Dodge Grand Caravans, purchased 10 months ago with $186,192 in federal stimulus funds are sitting unused in storage at a county park because Waukesha County has found no takers for its proposed workers' van pool program."
http://althouse.blogspot.com/2.....avans.html

[Maxxx]

Jobs created and saved.

[PIRS]

"The Department of Health and Human Services is refusing to sell marijuana to a research team conducting a PTSD study, claiming that the drug may be "diverted" and given to nonparticipants."

I blame this on the film Halfbaked.

[John]

Hold it. That can't be true. MNG tells me that the government puts drugs out on the street all of the time. It is just how they roll.

[Art-P.O.G.]

I blame this on the film Halfbaked.

Often praised for its gritty realism.

[cynical]

Yeah, but they're very territorial about it. If these researchers go giving the drugs away, what is DH&HS; going to do for side cash?

[Lord Humungus]

Opposition to Obama grows ? strongly
http://www.washingtonpost.com/....._blog.html

While the topline numbers are troubling enough, dig deeper into them and the news gets no better for Obama. Forty-three percent of independents ? a group the president spent the better part of the last year courting ? strongly disapprove of the job he is doing. Forty seven percent of people 65 years of age and older ? reliable voters in any election ? strongly disapprove of how he is doing his job.

[John]

Obama is destroying and completely discrediting liberalism. It is too bad we don't have an actual small government party around to take advantage of it.

[Lord Humungus]

yeah, we'll flail around for a couple more years until the shit really hits the fan. Which direction this nation will go? - I do not know.

[John]

I hear liberals, the sentient ones anyway, bemoan how it will take a miracle of productivity to raise enough revenue to save their sacred cow programs. I have an idea for how to get such a miracle. Stop regulating everything that moves. Get rid of federal regulations and watch what happens. But they would never do that. They love power more than they love anything else.

[Tony]

You're still conflating corporate profits with job growth. The anti-regulation BS is just about giving business everything on its wishlist and then saying "jobs!" to make you feel better about yourself. There's no reason to think letting business screw more people over will result in job growth.

Business is incentivized to reduce labor costs (like all other costs). That's true now and it will still be true if we get away from these undefined regulations you're referring to. The only thing that matters is increasing consumer demand and thus increasing demand for labor.

[John]

Tony since you are not sentient and thus not one of the people I am talking about, STFU.

[John]

Yeah Tony, business can just pay whatever they want. I plan to start a software company and play all my coders minimum wage. Why hasn't anyone thought of that? My God you are comically stupid.

[Jon Schaffer`s Right Hand]

Obviously all employers have monopsonist power. That's why any moron can start a business, exploit his workers, and easily make millions, even on a bad idea.

Oh wait, that doesn't happen? In fact close to 90% of new businesses fail within a year? I guess maybe employers don't have monopsonist power then.

[Atanarjuat]

Wow. Businessmen (ALL businessmen) are so greedy they'd rather keep their profits rather than reinvest them and grow the business.

[Tony]

If they wanted to invest they'd do so rather than buy back stock. You can't create jobs if demand doesn't rise for your product. The problem isn't not enough money in the hands of CEOs.

Besides, if you can't make money without poisoning people, you don't deserve to make money. Let someone innovate a way to make money without poisoning people. Regulations and labor are two separate spheres.

[sarcasmic]

You can't create jobs if demand doesn't rise for your product.

We need laws mandating demand. Mandate that people buy certain products, creating demand for those products, and you create jobs!

Laws are magic!

[Tony]

If you don't think policymakers should try to increase overall consumer demand and thus decrease unemployment, then I don't want to hear you bitching about the employment level, or politicians vis a vis the employment level, ever.

[Jordan]

The only thing policymakers can do to unemployment is increase it. The only thing they can do to consumer demand is create a bubble.

[MJ]

"If you don't think policymakers should try to increase overall consumer demand..."

To think that you have to buy into the notion that policymakers have any power to increase consumer demand. Governments are largely inpotent in that regard.

[Health Insurance Companies]

Exactly, Sarcasmic!

[Loki]

Henceforward, government shall be restructured to consist of two agencies:

The Department of Supply
The Department of Demand

Command & Control FTW!

[sarcasmic]

No I don't think government should tinker in the economy.
When government does something stupid, like ethanol mandates for example, it never acknowledges the mistake. It just perpetuates.
When markets do something stupid, like all those businesses that don't exist because they went broke, they learn from their mistakes.
When government tries to "fix" things, like the "problem" of not enough people owning their own home, stupid shit happens like the housing bubble.
If markets were allowed to function, capital would have been reallocated by now and employment would be up.
But no. Government is doing all it can to prop up home prices and stop capital from being reallocated. As a result the economy sucks and unemployment is up.

Just get government the fuck out of the way and let markets fail. That's why markets work. Because they fail (and unlike government they learn from their mistakes).

Now go find a policymaker and suck his dick. If we're lucky the load will blow off the back of your head and I'll never have to read your inane ramblings again.

[Paraphrasing Ronald Reagan]

The definition of resession, is when your neighbor loses his job. The definition of depression, is when you lose you job. The definition of recovery, is when Barack Obama loses his job.

[Red Rocks Rockin]

Besides, if you can't make money without poisoning people, you don't deserve to make money. Let someone innovate a way to make money without poisoning people.

And yet you think a return to the 1950s economy is possible. LOL.

[sarcasmic]

You're so insightful Tony.
We should outlaw automation.
Outlaw computers.
Outlaw machines.
Everything must be built by hand.
Better yet we should outlaw trade.
You cannot own anything unless you produce it yourself.
We'll have full employment as everyone hunts for rabbits and gathers berries.
You're a genius!

[Appalachian Australian]

We'll have full employment as everyone hunts for rabbits and gathers berries.

I didn't know Tony and White Indian were the same person.

[White Indian]

Now you're talking!

[Gimlet]

STFU, Tony.

[Mr. FIFY]

And you liberals are still ignoring profit margin, Tony.

All you scream is "record profits!", but you never take into account the profit margins... to you, it's just another way to bash anyone you hate and whip up the poor so they may someday pull a 1917 on America.

[flye]

Always whirling, whirling, whirling towards freedom.

[Lord Humungus]

gawd, I hope so.

[Kant feel Pietzsche]

"Obama is destroying and completely discrediting liberalism. It is too bad we don't have an actual small government party around to take advantage of it."

After 100 years of slowly licking away at the hard candy shell, liberals felt they were close enough to go for the big bite. But they over-misestimated the stupidity of the electorate.

Stupid fucking owl screwed it up for everybody, eh? 3 licks indeed.

[Lord Humungus]

Electric Bills About To Spike
http://www.thedailybeast.com/a.....rades.html

From Alaska to Georgia and Wyoming to Florida, utilities are seeking permission to pass on hundreds of millions of dollars in new charges to customers to help upgrade aging infrastructure and build new or retrofitted power plants that comply with tougher environmental regulations, a Daily Beast review of regulatory filings has found.

[John]

Obama said in the infamous San Fransisco Chronicle interview that he planned to raise energy prices "through roof". And he is being true to his word. But of course no one paid any attention to that. He was after all a Harvard man and errudite and Sarah Palin was gross and wasn't it great to vote for a black man for President? Life is hard but even harder if you are stupid.

[The Hippy Spring]

He's allso fueling class warfare with his BS about fat-cats. Don't think that doesn't factor into the OWS bullshit

[Pip]

The man is dangerous.

[MNG]

The class-warfare meme from the right is tiresome.

[John]

Just because he says it in every speech and has done it to such an extent his big Wall Street donors are bailing on him over it doesn't mean he is engaging in class warfare or anything.

Meme, an uncomfortable truth MNG doesn't like hearing about.

[MNG]

A meme from the right is a manufactured truth, one that appears in a coordinated way among their many outlets at the same time for the same purpose. I guess a group of people that used to be called "dittoheads" proudly can't be blamed for mindless repetition of the memo of the week...

[John]

But that is not how you use the word. For you it is just an epitaph you throw out when someone points out a fact you don't like and wish were not so but don't have an argument to make in response.

[MNG]

No, I only throw it out when its this idea "making the rounds" on Town.hall, drudge, fox, etc. That's what makes it so tiresome.

But a guy who spends hours a day cutting and pasting from drudge is not going to get that I can see.

[Mainer]

"That's what makes it so tiresome"

Tiresome ? oh the irony.

[o2]

wingnutz memes; FEMA camps, gun confiscation, nationalized health care, death panels, the wealthy create [JOBZ], ...

[o2]

the sky color dependz on wut medz i am on that day

[teh rael o2]

medz like johnny walker babiee !

[T]

You have an entire protest movement based on not being the wealthiest 1% and class warfare is a right-wing meme?

Seriously, dude, what color is the sky on your planet?

[SugarFree]

Plaid.

[T]

Nothing wrong with a nice tartan, I suppose.

[Groovus Maximus]

Plaid.

Double asshole is a chav?

More on chavs.

[mng]

You have an entire protest movement based on not being the wealthiest 1% and class warfare is a right-wing meme?

The 1% started the war, we're just trying to end it.

Our offer is peace for a peice.
They give us gold or we give them lead.

[MiNGe]

Because Obama never has said anything ever to fuel such talk. Like "spread the wealth around", or "the rich aren't paying their fair share", etc. It's just a right wing meme to foam the wingnutz. And fast and furious was just a benign sting gone awry, never mind any evidence to the contrary. mmmmmmm.....Obama cock....slurp.....

[Another Phil]

As is the class warfare from the left.

[Gimlet]

"The Department of Health and Human Services is refusing to sell marijuana to a research team conducting a PTSD study, claiming that the drug may be "diverted" and given to nonparticipants."

What a non-story. Like they couldn't source it from somewhere else.

[SugarFree]

I am the 99%

[John]

Isn't that double asshole?

[sloopyinca]

That's pretty courageous, posting a picture of yourself on H&R. Kudos to you, SF.

[SugarFree]

I am proud of my body. Are you?

[T]

No, I'm not proud of your body. Why on earth should I be?

[Warty]

Something non news-related, because I don't really want to smash my monitor.

50 Jahre Kampf mit dem Eisen

[Abdul]

I figured this would touch Warty's heart. . . or something.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xqZmY4sqe64

[Warty]

This and Putin are reason enough to start learning Russian. We must please our future overlords.

[John]

Honestly, in a fight who you got Obama or Putin? Damn that is a depressing thought.

[Abdul]

Putin is former KG, has a black belt in Sambo, and hunts shirtless on horseback.

Obama plays golf.

I'd take Mrs. Putin over Obama.

[Abdul]

That's supposed to be former KGB.

Also, "black belt in Sambo" should not be construed as racist.

[John]

In fairness, Michelle with her huge arms and giant city killing ass might be able to take them all.

[WTF]

...giant city killing ass ...
I lol'd

[Fluffy]

Yeah, she really showed how much ass she could kick back when she starred in Cloverfield.

[JEP]

That's pretty sick, Warty, but I prefer this

[Warty]

One of these days I'll have to learn the Oly lifts for real.

[PS]

kettleballs=teh ghey

[P Brooks]

the White House hopes the president's steady drumbeat of "pass the bill" can become a rallying cry for his supporters even if it doesn't create a single job

There's only one job the White House gives a shit about.

[Chatroom Crank]

"WASHINGTON DC - The White House is dismissing Senate Republican leader Mitch McConnell's call for an immediate vote on President Barack Obama's $447 billion jobs bill as a political stunt"

I guess they want it passed, but not voted on.

[SugarFree]

I am the 99%

[John]

Those are just outstanding.

[Cookie Monster]

I am the 99% . . . awesome!

[Lord Humungus]

and some OT - some obscure 'shoe-gaze' 90s pop from Moose, a now defunct English group
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AIB8TnezE_E

[SugarFree]

99% Woo!

[John]

I don't think 99% of the world could ever be that fabulous. That guy is in a 1% of his own.

[$6M RoboTorso]

Obamacare will put patients' records at risk
...As part of its implementation of Obamacare, the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services has proposed a new federal regulation to require private health insurance companies to give the government all of the health records of every person they insure. The rule is shrouded in the usual bureaucratese, but, as Huelskamp pointed out in a Washington Examiner op-ed, "abstract terms are used to distract from the real objectives of this idea: no matter which 'option' is chosen, government bureaucrats would have access to the health records of every American -- including you."

HHS Secretary Kathleen Sebelius claims the government must have the records in order to evaluate the performance of health insurers....

[John]

But we had to bend the cost curve. We had to pass it to find out what was in it. We had to insure all those uninsurable children. Seriously, this country truly went barking mad for two years

[o2]

the same will also happen when the right to privacy is struck down by reimposing abortion

[o2]

sorry - meant outlawing abortion

[o2]

holy fuck i am a giant bag of stupid

[teh rael o2]

no, ur lack of comprehension defines only ur personal stupidz. legal abortion is predicated on the right to privacy.

[teh rael o2]

my mom tried to abort me but i only ended up retarded

[$6M RoboTorso]

The Day America Died
...Before some readers write to declare that Awlaki's murder is no big deal because the US government has always had people murdered, keep in mind that CIA assassinations were of foreign opponents and were not publicly proclaimed events, much less a claim by the president to be above the law. Indeed, such assassinations were denied, not claimed as legitimate actions of the President of the United States.

The Ohio National Guardsmen who shot Kent State students as they protested the US invasion of Cambodia in 1970 made no claim to be carrying out an executive branch decision. Eight of the guardsmen were indicted by a grand jury. The guardsmen entered a self-defense plea. Most Americans were angry at war protestors and blamed the students. The judiciary got the message, and the criminal case was eventually dismissed. The civil case (wrongful death and injury) was settled for $675,000 and a statement of regret by the defendants.

The point isn't that the government killed people. The point is that never prior to President Obama has a President asserted the power to murder citizens....

...It is possible that Awlaki was assassinated because he was an effective critic of the US government. Police states do not originate fully fledged. Initially, they justify their illegal acts by demonizing their targets and in this way create the precedents for unaccountable power. Once the government equates critics with giving "aid and comfort" to terrorists, as they are doing with antiwar activists and Assange, or with terrorism itself, as Obama did with Awlaki, it will only be a short step to bringing accusations against Glenn Greenwald and the ACLU....

[SugarFree]

I am the 99%

[flye]

He came across well over the phone, but the in-person interview started poorly and went downhill from there.

[SweatingBourbon]

Isn't that Wil Wheaton with some photoshopping?

[Name Nomad]

No. It's *space nerd* Wil Wheaton. Get it right next time.

[Warty]

In all seriousness, that sweater is the horriblest thing I've ever seen.

[SugarFree]

I sure hope it's not floating in the hallway the next time you get up to pee in the middle of the night.

[Karl Hungus]

Willard? I never knew. I'd go by Mitt too, if my parents had named me Willard. Maybe Willard should be coined into a neologism, like they did with Santorum:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Campaign_for_"santorum"_neologism

Willard sounds pretty phallic, so that might be a good starting point.

[John]

I think Willard is a great name. If I were named Willard I would grow a 19th Century level beard and go with it. Hell of a lot better than calling myself "Mitt".

[Karl Hungus]

Mutton chops. If your parents saddled you with Willard, your only option is to take it and run with it. Nothing screams, "Yeah, my name's Mitt. Why, ya wanna make something of it?" more loudly than a pair of perfectly coiffed mutton chops.

[John]

I would vote for a guy named Willard with world class mutton chops long before I voted for someone named Mitt.

[Karl Hungus]

Mutton chops, coattails, a top hat and, dare I say it, a monocle. This is the stuff real presidents are made of.

[Pip]

If a guy named willard doesn't like the nam, why not just go by Will?

[Karl Hungus]

That's a band-aid solution, like wearing a toupee, or donning stripes to make yourself look slender. A gaudy attempt to pass for normal, to seem appealing, when the ugly truth is still plain as day.

Once all the masks have been laid aside, at the end of the day, a Willard will always be a Willard.

[Willard Scott]

Fuck you! I was Ronald McDonald AND Bozo the Clown!

[Karl Hungus]

And as if to prove my point, the biggest Willard of all chimes in with his two cents.

[tarran]

Oh please, not everyone named willard is a douche...

[Karl Hungus]

Yes, tarran, everyone. And if you weren't born a douche, going through life as a Willard will turn you into one.

[SugarFree]

I am the 99%

[flye]

He came across well over the phone, but...

[sloopyinca]

Is this shit gonna go on all fucking day, SF?

Please say yes. Please say yes. Please say yes.

[WTF]

Is this shit gonna go on all fucking day, SF?

Oh, God, I hope so.

[Cookie Monster]

Looking for some camping buddies? Look here. Awesome site. Good job with it.

[Tim]

Insert STEVE SMITH here.

[Pip]

I see what you did there.

[P Brooks]

I realize I'm out of touch, and everything, but I was blissfully unaware of this whole "99 per cent" business until this morning.

You BASTARDS.

[SugarFree]

I am the 99%

[SugarFree]

NOOO! Come back in-line link... Come back!

[Edward G Robinson]

Where's your link now Moses? Myaah!

[John]

I hadn't either.

[robc]

Im still unsure about it.

[P Brooks]

Looking for some camping buddies?

STEVE SMITH has a dating site?

[STEVE SMITH]

STEVE SMITH ON THE LAM. MAYBE STEVE STOP BY SEATTLE. PROBE 99 PERCENTERS WITH ANUS.

[Tim]

"KEMEROVO, Russia ? Scientists from several countries, including Russia and the U.S., will gather in the Kemerova region of Siberia to hunt down the Yeti, after alleged sightings of the legendary creatures increased threefold in the area over the past 20 years..."

Maybe they can find where GLOBAL WARMING is hiding too.

[rac3rx]

Wait, STEVE, I'm confused, are you probing the 99 percenters with YOUR anus, or are you probing the 99 percenters who have an anus?

[STEVE SMITH]

STEVE SMITH RAPE 99% OF ANUS, LEAVE 1% SO IT GROW BACK FOR NEXT SEASON. STEVE SMITH BELIEVE IN SUSTAINABLE ANUSES!

[Groovus Maximus]

I wonder if Lucy was properly briefed about the STEVE SMITH meme.

[SugarFree]

I sure hope so, but then it's not as bad for her as when they hired a guy named Steve Smith and told him nothing.

[Groovus Maximus]

Heh heh! That was pretty fortunate timing. For us!

[Abdul]

STEVE SMITH! And those poor art history majors thought they got raped by the corporations. . .

[P Brooks]

I defer to the inimitable Little Black Duck.

"You're despicable."

[Tim]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kq8F8PeDBOU

[MNG]

In fact, "class warfare" is just about the only phrase in American political discourse where "class" can appear without the all-forgiving prefix "middle." People who level the charge of class warfare never go the logical next step to extol the virtues of class cooperation...

The Republican leadership still warn against divisiveness and avoid talking about class explicitly, other than saying that we shouldn't be increasing taxes on the "job creators" but rather "broadening the base." But the conservative media and bloggers have been less circumspect about cleaving society in two. Some of them talk about an all-out war between the producer class and the moocher class. And Fox Business ran a series of segments last spring called "Entitlement Nation: Makers vs. Takers."

This isn't just about a couple of welfare queens anymore; it carves broader than that. In fact, it recalls another famous sentence from the Communist Manifesto: "Society is splitting more and more into two enemy camps, into a face-off between two huge classes."
http://www.npr.org/2011/10/04/.....e-persists

[John]

We are 14 trillion dollars in debt. We are going to have to stop spending. That means the people getting all that money are going to have to answer for something. So what? I think the people of California have every right to wonder about and demonize the former Fire Captain getting a large six figure pension after 20 years of work. If that is class warfare, then so be it.

[MNG]

It's certainly not wrong to want to cut spending, I support that myself. In fact if you go back to the mess with Gov. Walker the first day I posted saying that the protests were absurd and public employees must accept pay and benefit cuts. That's just reality.

But when people harp on public employees and ignore public contractors, when they harp on ending the education department and don't mention the commerce department, then they are the ones engaging in "class warfare", just in reverse.

[John]

And the people on Wall Street who are screaming about the 1% aren't? If one side can do it, so can the other. It is called politics.

[MNG]

That's my point, to bitch about it only when your "side" feels outraged is what we call hypocrisy John.

But I guess fish don't notice the water they swim in.

[John]

And you are just all over the 1%. You are a walking talking example of projection.

[Tim]

Fish pensions! What a great idea.

[Gimlet]

Eat shit, MNG:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TtzHp_knTUw

[o2]

so who approved that pension john?...since it wasnt the captain himself

[o2]

idiots like me voted for the morons who approved that pension, thats who herp derp

[o2]

Please stop this! I always capitalize my sentences and use propper English!

[Fluffy]

Look, I am not one of the people wetting their pants every time someone says something that can be construed as "class warfare".

I just happen to think that it's a little ridiculous to try to frame anything happening during the Occupy Wall Street protest as old-fashioned capitalists vs. downtrodden blue collar workers class warfare.

Unemployable art and theatre world hipster trash and coddled New York City and State public employees aren't TEH PEOPLE. They just aren't.

Hell, the Westboro Baptist Church folks are more TEH PEOPLE than these bozos and flacks.

As I said before, these protests convey no new content and therefore should be ignored. I already knew that the liberal arts nose ring and tats crowd hated rich people, and I already knew that public employee unions wanted taxes raised.

The opinions of 100-1000 people in a park in lower Manhattan are less statistically significant by orders of magnitude to the 11% of the GOP primary electorate Ron Paul polls. That's millions of people. And this would be true of any politician or issue - we can poll and know that X million of Americans support position Y. How is that not infinitely more important and more representative of TEH PEOPLE than the actions of a bunch of yokels who draw less people to their events than Lansdowne Street bars draw for Red Sox games?

[Tony]

Should their en masse arrests be ignored, libertarian man?

[John]

They were trespassing. Should we just let them take over buildings and destroy other people's property?

[cynical]

We can focus on their mistreatment while accepting that their message is still asinine.

[Fluffy]

Actually, they have my sympathy for their Brooklyn Bridge arrests.

But that doesn't make their political message one calorie more important.

I'm sure that at least 40% of Americans support higher taxes. Probably more. That's more than 100 million adults.

1000 people out of 100 million people is .001%.

So when you show me video of the protests I say, "Oh, look, honey. It's .001% of the people we already knew wanted higher taxes."

Treating that as newsworthy is like me taking a picture of a squirrel. "Oh, look, honey. It's one of the million squirrels we already knew lived in Vermont." How is that news?

[Tony]

When coverage matches that given to tea party gatherings, fine. Newsworthiness is kind of a petty thing to bitch about.

It seems achingly difficult for libertarians to stand up for principle even when it applies to people they disagree with.

[John]

The Tea Party gatherings were all over the country and had thousands of people. These are neither. And when they start running hit pieces on this group and worrying about the lack of minorities at these rallies, then the coverage will have been fair.

[Abdul]

The real story with the Tea Party is that conservatives were protesting in the street.

Liberals taking to the streets is a dog bites man story. they don't have jobs, so it's a low-risk proposition for them.

[Fluffy]

If the coverage given to this protest was scaled to match that given to Tea Party protests (and the scale used was the number of people involved) we would find that it has already received too much coverage.

The only time there was significant coverage of Tea Party events was when Tea Party folks crashed Congressional town halls.

If these dopes want to corner a Congressman in some Rotary Club somewhere and get themselves into a brawl, I would be happy to concede that such an event would be newsworthy. But the news would be "Look at this unusual event where a Congressperson had to feel fear" (which is how the Tea Party events were covered) and not "Look at this profound evidence of entirely new political feeling in the US".

[Fluffy]

Also -

I went to a Ron Paul rally in New Hampshire during the last campaign season where 500 people showed up.

In terms of the number of people involved, that rally should have had BY ITSELF about 50% of the coverage the Occupy Wall Street protests have gotten.

Strangely, it did not.

I need you to clarify what "principle" I'm defying here.

[Tony]

I guess I was talking about John and others, not you. The principle being that you take a hard line against police power regardless of who it is targeting. Discovering nuance in support of police power because it's dirty hippies getting the boot isn't becoming.

[Tony]

Which is to say, while I think the protests themselves are newsworthy, the police actions are the real story.

[Gimlet]

STFU, Tony.

[cynical]

In fact, "class warfare" is just about the only phrase in American political discourse where "class" can appear without the all-forgiving prefix "middle."

Mainly because they're about the lower classes fighting the upper classes. Most of these 99%ers are lower class, they just think that because they're white and have a college degree, they're entitled to be considered "middle class" regardless whether the decisions they make demonstrate middle class values.

People who level the charge of class warfare never go the logical next step to extol the virtues of class cooperation...

Wait... this progressive rhetoric sounds familiar. Class cooperation? Do they want to forge a trans-class movement? Put nation ahead of class? Should the bourgeiosie side with progressives as a compromise to protect themselves against revolutionary socialism, as Jonathan Chait suggests?

I could swear I heard all these things from some ideology before.

[Gimlet]

99% and the 99'ers (99 weeks of unemployment insurance). Coincidence?

[P Brooks]

Where's our SuperPAC?

I want to run the Ascended One's (Sixty Minutes?) quote about being okay with having been a one-term President on an endless loop, and imply the message has been approved by Hillary. And maybe Herman Cain.

I just want to watch the world burn.

[kilroy]

Unions endorse, will join Occupy Wall Street protests

Who didn't see this coming?

[Abdul]

Can Union members become accustomed to sitting around all day doing nothing but holding up signs with incoherent messages?

[teh rael o2]

like ur post?

[The Real o2]

I would greatly appreciate it if you stopped trying to mock me by trying to make others think that I use improper spelling and grammar. I pride myself in my proper use of the English language and would like this to be recognized.

[Tim]

Won would hope that the teachers union good at least come up with coherent signs.

[Tim]

That "won" shoulda been "Juan"... no wait..

[Abdul]

I thanked a teacher.

[Red Rocks Rockin]

Can Union members become accustomed to sitting around all day doing nothing but holding up signs with incoherent messages?

They're union members--they'll hire some of the unemployed theater arts majors to hold the signs for them at cut-rate prices, like they always do.

[MNG]

Could we be saying goodbye to "The Simpsons" this spring? The Daily Beast is reporting that 20th Century Fox and the voice talent are butting heads over a new contract.

"Fox is taking the position that unless they can cut the production costs really drastically, they'll pull the plug on new shows," a source close to "The Simpsons" told the Daily Beast.

According to the insider, FOX is asking that the staff take a 45 percent cut in salary. Judging from the fact that the main cast makes about $400,000 an episode, this means they'll have to take home a little over $200,000. Still, it's not too shabby considering there's over 20 episodes in a season.

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-31.....91698.html

[Tim]

They just want to replace it with another Family Guy clone.

[T]

Seth McF must work cheap, and the quality of his output reflects it.

[Tim]

With the SImpsons off the air, he'll have to steal jokes from himself.

[T]

I don't think he can get more self-referential without vanishing up his own asshole.

[Gimlet]

As they said on the Charlie Sheen roast, McF ripped off Homer.

[Abdul]

They're letting profits stand in the way of art!

[BakedPenguin]

The Simpsons are still on TV?

[Zeb]

It's probably about time. I haven't seen new episodes for several years, but I imagine it much be on the decline. TV shows should end before people lose interest.

[Red Rocks Rockin]

Christ, I haven't watched an episode in over 10 years. I'm amazed it's lasted this long.

As others have mentioned above, maybe now that McFarlane doesn't have anything to crib from, his shitty shows will be right behind The Simpsons on the cancellation express.

[Tim]

And so it goes...

[Lord Humungus]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k3jiCi7aFZE

[WTF??????????????????????]

Bank loses $7 billion in value as top Democrat calls for customers to head for the exits, website experiences days of outages

Bank loses $7 billion in value as top Democrat calls for customers to head for the exits, website experiences days of outages

http://dailycaller.com/#ixzz1ZuwLPZxp

[AZ]

I'm sure Durbin's also been shorting them since the bill.

[P Brooks]

Yesterday, I was on the periphery of a conversation about government budget, debt, spending, et c.

Apparently, we have to keep all those government employees (like mailmen) on the job, because they would be utterly unemployable in any other context. We have to keep digging this hole! Because we were digging yesterday and we're digging today; that means we should be digging tomorrow!

I managed to resist saying, "Putting them on welfare would be cheaper." I'm not sure why.

[John]

They would be and are plenty employable. And we miss out on their productivity every day they are at the post office.

[Drax the Destroyer]

I know a lot of people think the Chinese single-handedly stole our manufacturing jobs, but in reality our governments local, state, and federal stole(at least partially) those jobs by "employing" the bodies that would have taken those jobs at much inflated rates (thanks to the benefit of spending stolen money). And this is not even a problem of mailmen and the like, but the pointless and destructive bureaucrats that would be better employed pulling a lever down at the box factory for 4 bucks an hour. Yes, it sounds cruel. It sounds evil. But why should some people make 100,000K a year for generating -250,000k a year in the overall economy. Why should we employ so many mailmen, when he's already (mostly) obsolete. To prove that we care? To prove we are good people for wanting to the world to carry it's deadweight and buried ideas forever? How is that good? At what fucking cost?

There needs to be a correction, and the longer we delay it, the more it might look like Russia circa 1917 and the less like Snow Crash and/or The Diamond Age (Which seem like dystopias to the unread reader but the "villains" in both are essentially nation-states or people who want to control other people not unlike our ever-loving non-elected bureaucrats).

[SugarFree]

The 1th percentile.

[John]

I bet he sells those telephones for a profit. Fucking capitalist exploiter.

[Tim]

Warning: remove monocle before viewing.

[sloopyinca]

Fucking gingers.

[Jon Schaffer`s Right Hand]

That is OUR word!

[P Brooks]

It's been a long time since I got dragged to a Renaissance Fayre; do they have rotary phones, now?

[Tim]

We should go back, think of the jobs we'd create for switchboard operators!

[sarcasmic]

Mmmm Scottish eggs.

[John]

An anonymous reader writes "A group of four NY state senators have written a paper suggesting that free speech should be looked upon as a government granted privilege rather than a right. They're specifically concerned about cyberstalking and cyberbullying, and are introducing legislation to make both of those against the law. Among other troubling concepts, they argue that merely 'excluding' someone from a group is a form of cyberbullying."

http://politics.slashdot.org/s.....-privilege

[Tim]

Imagine what George III could have done with cyberstalking and cyberbullying laws.

[Warty]

They are the 99 percent.

[gaijin97]

that has to be a joke, right?

[Matrix]

So I guess our criticisms of politicians will be considered "cyberbullying"?

[Tulpa]

Very well, I won't exclude those state senators from the group of sheepfuckers.

[P Brooks]

free speech should be looked upon as a government granted privilege rather than a right.

Circling

the

drain.

[Tim]

July 4, 1776:
His Majesty's government announced today that a drone strike in the troubled Philadelphia region resulted in the Deaths of notorious traitor and terrorist George Washington and several high ranking members of his so called colonial congress.

[sloopyinca]

Instapoll!

How many Reasonoids attended a Renaissance Faire in the last 12 months, and how many have already planned a trip to another one?

Starting with me, the count is zero.

[Lord Humungus]

zero! and zero!

[sarcasmic]

I think I attended one in the last 12 years. Yes I did. Eleven years ago. Enjoyed those boiled eggs wrapped in sausage and then deep fried to golden perfection. Yum.

No plans to return.

[Warty]

I used to go to the southwestern Ohio one when I was a kid, but that was more than 12 years ago. I don't plan to go to any more, but I would like some of those delicious goddamn turkey legs.

[John]

We used to go to the huge on in Kansas City as a kid. I always thought it was kind of boring. Not enough jousting and violence and too many hippy chicks selling beads. But the food was good.

[BakedPenguin]

...delicious goddamn turkey legs...

"It's a turkey leg wrapped in bacon. They call it a Swanson."

[PS]

There's never enough Ron Swanson.

[Mainer]

There was a Renaissance Faire for a whole week a half mile from my house here in rural New Hampshire. The thought of going to it never entered my mind.

[John]

They are not my favorite things, but I don't quite get the hate for them. They are just harmless fairs for geeks. There are worse things in the world.

[flye]

Zero, but I did get a touch of the lepry recently so I have street cred.

[Abdul]

Are we using elven years or dwarven years?

[JW]

A couple years ago, but only so the kids could see it. Otherwise, not since college.

[T]

3 in the past 12 months, one of them twice, and I will attend three in the next 12 months, one of them twice.

I likes me some Renaissance Faires.

[sarcasmic]

geek

[T]

I'm an engineer. It's kind of a career requirement.

[sarcasmic]

Oh yeah? Well it takes one to know one!

[T]

I can out RenFest geek you this quick: the wife makes chain mail as a hobby.

[sarcasmic]

I would go again buy my wife loathes Ren Fests.

The only way I could get her to go is if I bought her this shirt to wear to it.

[sarcasmic]

buy *but*

[T]

I wear this shirt to at least one RenFest every year. It doesn't make me popular amongst the patrons, but the staff always seems to appreciate it.

[sarcasmic]

nice

[Citizen Nothing]

Did you know there's a professional jousting circuit?
True story.

[kilroy]

I go every year. It's the only place to get a great smoked turkey leg. I regard it as a food and beer festival that has some weirdly dressed participants. We generally just wander from beer/wine/mead vendor to food vendor for a few hours and leave. I'll be going again when Spring rolls around.

[sarcasmic]

dork

[SugarFree]

I want to go, for the lulz, but no one wants to go with me. 🙁

[sarcasmic]

No one ever pays me in gum 🙁

[Fartriloquist]

I tried to go to a Renaissance Fair once, but got there about 600 years too late.

[Clich? Bandit]

The one in colorado is huge and goes on for like six or eight weeks. I have been but it has been over a decade. Scotch Eggs are nice but turkey legs are better.

[Jack The Reaper]

Went there for the first time this year. I've lived in Colorado for 15 years. The best part was taking my mom who had a handicapped mirror hanger so we got to park next to the gate. Other than that, I liked the beer and elephants.

...and yes, I am an epic level geek. Anyone else here play D&D since the 70s?

[Red Rocks Rockin]

The one in Colorado is actually pretty sweet just because it covers so much ground. If you bring the kids, there's plenty for them to do and see, the food is great, and it's not hard to find one reasonably priced piece of kitcsh if you pay attention.

That said, I haven't been there in ten years--it seems like something that's more appropriate for the high school/college age crowd to go every year.

[JD]

The one near Houston posts signs to make it legally off limits to concealed carry, thus ensuring I will never go there purely out of principle.

[stonewyrm]

Me for both. MD had a great faire.

[Ice Nine]

Can't stand the dippy people but those low-cut, pushed-up bosom dresses make it almost worth the trip.

[Red Rocks Rockin]

Fortunately, those dresses mostly show up on the girls working the food stands.

[Lord Humungus]

Why Japanese Suddenly Hate Cars
http://www.thetruthaboutcars.c.....hate-cars/

The real craze in Tokyo is not the Roppongi daytraders that switched his Porsche for a Miyata (the bicycle.) The REAL craze in Japan is mamachari.

That's a Japanese portmanteau of "mama" (mama) and "charinko" (bicycle): It denotes a utility bike with chainguard, fenders, rack, skirt guard, dynamo lights, baskets, and child carriers. It used to be to conveyance of choice of a housewife with two small children and shopping bags. Helmets? Who needs them?

[Lord Humungus]

Caddy Buyers Mindless Status Seekers, Says Buick
http://dailycaller.com/2011/10.....-cadillac/

They're buying a luxury product to reward themselves and people that they care about more so than buying a luxury product as a marker of their social status.

[Lord Humungus]

Bloomberg's Expos? on Koch Industries Reveals ... What Exactly?
http://www.theatlantic.com/bus.....ly/246154/

All reporters have bias. It's unavoidable: bias results even through as simple an action as deciding what to write an article about. Much of that bias isn't necessarily a problem. If you report facts in a fair-and-balanced manner, then readers can judge the story for themselves based on those facts. But at other times, some reporters' bias cuts so deep that it causes them to produce an article that squints too hard to see smoke when there is no fire. Unfortunately, such an article was produced this week by Bloomberg Markets Magazine on Koch Industries.

[Sacre Bleu]

You're thinking of Jesus
http://www.flickr.com/photos/shankbone/6209348934/

[cynical]

So, apparently people are starting to call OWS the "American Fall" movement (as an analogy to Arab Spring).

Mini HnR poll:
Is this a deliberate attempt to give neocons and national greatness assholes a reason to hate on the hippies, or are the people who coined the phrase truly unaware of the alternate interpretation?

[Kant feel Pietzsche]

Completely obtuse.

[Joe M]

Ron Paul raised $8 million in the third quarter of 2011.

[David Frum]

I endorse Romney and I AM FUCKING INSANE.

http://fullcomment.nationalpos.....pt-romney/

[Lifetime 1221 Pro Court]

Yeah for real. Go MD!

[Basketball Hoops Reviews]

I don't endorse Romney. That guy can't be trusted!