Reason Morning Links: Warmongers Oppose Austerity, DOJ Targets Wells Fargo for Discriminatory Lending, Child Hitman Gets Three-Year Sentence


New at The debt ceiling rap is so good I'm posting it twice.

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  1. Wells Fargo soon to be investigated for “steering African American borrowers into high-cost subprime loans.”

    Driving Miss Lazy?

    1. When are they going to investigate payday loan/advance companies? Talk about preying on the financially illiterate.


        There’s more, of course.

      2. Investigate them for what? Charging disclosed rates and fees?

      3. Re: Quetzalcoatl,

        When are they going to investigate payday loan/advance companies? Talk about preying on the financially illiterate.

        Why do you shill for Big Banks?

        By the way, they do not prey on the financial illiterate – that’s the job of the CNBC hosts.

        1. Why do you shill for Big Banks?

          Because Big Banks can afford my shilling rates.

    2. borrowers were inappropriately steered into subprime mortgage loans

      What does this even mean?
      “Hey, all the brothers are doing it!”
      “There’s a bottle of Chivas in it for you.”
      Or … what?

      1. It means there was inappropriate touching involved.

    3. “; settled claims it illegally steered credit-worthy borrowers into subprime loans and misled investors about the risks of mortgage-backed securities it sold;”

      Double WTF. Either these were good credit risks that were duped into paying more or Wells Fargo purposely gave money to people that were terrible credit risks, but told investors otherwise.

      No doubt Wells did something wrong, but both of these arguements run counter to each other. Either these borrowers were terrible credit risks are they weren’t, so only argument can make sense.

      1. That was my thought too. I mean, it could be talking about separate incidents, but it sounds like a questionable allegation.

    4. Who can know why the Right doesn’t attract more support from the female community with gems like this?

      1. I prefer to think it’s mildly racist rather than misogynist, but both take a backseat (ahem) when puns are involved.

        1. Where’s MNG to express some smug self-righteous outrage over our racist misogynist, whatever) antics?

          1. Oh, it’ll be along soon enough.

          2. The only socially acceptable group to mock are hillbillies. Especially ones engaging in tractor pulls.

            1. As an Appalachian-American, I prefer “hill william.”

              1. Whatever, we all know you’re a citygoat.

              2. I prefer “holler william”.

            2. Wait a minute. I thought hipsters were in the mockable by everyone group.

              1. We can’t make fun of hipsters because they are gay.

                1. Wait, I thought they just looked like gay stereotypes with brain injuries.

            3. Saw some lady on twitter call them Tea Billies this morning.

            4. You know who else loves tractor pulls? The Dutch.

              1. hey, I’m 100% Dutch (-American). Part of the sinister Dutch Mafia – big in the black licorice black-market, stroopies and windmill cookies.

            5. I think another term is “sons of the soil”, which actually sounds kinda cool.

              It’s still amazing how many people use the term “hillbilly” incorrectly, though. If you’ve ever met one, you just *know* when the term legitimately applies. But liberals, apparently, do not know the difference any more than they know how to use the term “racist” correctly.

              1. Dr. Hibbert: You never forget the birth of Siamese twins!

                Lisa: I believe they prefer to be called “Conjoined twins.”

                Dr. Hibbert: And hillbillies want to be called “Sons of the Soil,” but it ain’t gonna happen.

                1. I was bitching about Marge one time as the only character on the show whose centric episodes can make me turn the channel. He said he assumed that I would hate Lisa.

                  Of course not! She’s just a kid. She’ll grow out of that New Republic for Tots (now it’s just called The New Republic) phase the second she earns a paycheck.

      2. You know all of you are RACIST!!!11!!!

        1. We’re in the midst of a huge housing crisis that resulted from millions of American borrowers of all colors being steered “into high-cost subprime loans.” Would someone please explain how that differs from the Wells Fargo deal – other than the indisputable fact that because these WF borrowers were Black it was unequivocally racist.

          1. This doesn’t seem like new loans – tough to get one nowadays even if you can pay it back – but residual effects from the housing bubble.

          2. I try to help the downtrodden minorities, and this is the thanks I get?

            1. Remember that we will also sue your ass off if you stop loaning money to blacks. Can we stop playing games here? Just fucking give them the money, not even as a loan. Just fucking give black people free money, banks.

    5. uh, but weren’t mortgage companies pressured to lend more to the minorities/poor?

      So if you do as required, you get punished. If you don’t, you get punished. Why again does anyone bother running a business?

    6. The real story in the mortgage world is that all 50 state AGs are crafting a massive immunity deal for the banks, to let them off the hook for thousands (or maybe millions) of felonies, and screw millions of homeowners by keeping invalid mortgages on their houses.

      1. Exactly. Just like with TARP and the GM/Chrysler bailouts, we have these lovely laws already on the books to handle fraud and insolvency: why not use them?

        When instead you allow the politically connected to ignore the law, you’re well on the way to becoming a corrupt, failed economy. Those of you awhile ago who were comparing this political class to the Gracchi Brothers era of Rome are looking more and more prescient everyday.

    7. Didn’t the left’s meme back when the housing bubble popped amount to, “YOU RACISTS STOP BLAMING BLACKS FOR HOUSING IT WAS ALL THOSE MIDDLE CLASS WHITES WHO TOOK OUT THOSE LOANS!”

      1. Something like that. Also, it had nothing to do with the government forcing banks to make loans to people that couldn’t pay them back in the name of universal home ownership.

        1. Quite true. It was greed. And then people call libertarian ideas “simple”

    8. Wells Fargo soon to be investigated for “steering African American borrowers into high-cost subprime loans.”

      “African-Americans are simply too stupid to make their own decisions, so Wells Fargo MUST be guilty!”

  2. Al-Qaeda officials believe U.S. on brink of collapse.

    1. This is probably closer to the truth.

  3. 3 years for murder and kidnapping ‘ey? Well, I guess I’ll do all my killin’ in Mexico!

    1. That’s why gangs like the youngun’s. They get lighter sentences, so they can be back on the street quickly enough.

      Alternate response; 3 years in Mexican prison is like 50 in American prison.

      1. Hell, three years in most parts if Mexico is like 50 years in an American prison.

  4. Happy Battle of Bouvines anniversary…..gna-carta/

  5. Military leaders will have to get accustomed to doing more with less, like lots of other Americans. Except liberals and congressmen, of course, who find new and interesting ways to do less with more.

    1. The military should riot, like the anti-austerity Greeks.

      1. After Obama vetoes the debt extension and stops paying us, you will get your wish.

        1. Warmongers Oppose Austerity

          Technically, it’s the warmongers who are proposing military austerity. The ones who have to deal with the consequences of a warmongering foreign policy are opposing the austerity.

          1. This is H&R…don’t stick up for the military.

      2. If the military riots, wouldn’t that just be a coup? American Junta inc.

          1. Those were Vets, not active duty soldiers (they were getting paid). And I doubt there is as big an asshole as MacAuthur alive today.

      3. Seven Days In August

    2. The military should start putting some pressure on these assholes to do less with what they have. They’ve got three wars. Shut down two of them, and this problem clears up.

  6. U.S. officials believe al-Qaeda on brink of collapse.

    The Patriot Act works! Bet not get rid of it now.

  7. A man who handed out pamphlets outside of designated free-speech zones during the Casey Anthony murder trial has been given jail time by the central Florida judge presiding over the case.…..ltime.html

    1. Oooooooo, designated free speech zones!

      1. Actually we intended that the entire country be a free speech zone, judge.

        1. Yeah, but you wrote that, like, 200 years ago or something.

        2. Dude, you were in France. Stop trying to steal credit from James Madison.

          1. Actually, by the time of the 1st, I guess you were back in the US and in the cabinet. But you still didnt write the thing.

  8. None of the four-stars explicitly rebuked the Pentagon budget plan. But they made it clear they’re not fans of lowered budgets. “We would have some challenges taking those cuts,” Dunford said. Chiarelli confessed the Army brass “don’t totally understand” how they’re going to make do with less money. Breedlove bemoaned the decades-old tankers and bombers the Air Force flies and contrasted them with the rapid pace of Chinese military modernization: “They put the money to whatever they decide to do, and that scares me.”


    1. Nobody likes budget cuts. This is such a dog bites man story. Let me know when they occupy the Capitol in protest.

      1. Let me know when the first civilian in the DOD gets laid off due to budget cuts – or complete laziness.


    Debt ceiling doesn’t matter; Skynet set to spend US into oblivion.

    1. Doing so involves a massive computer-reprogramming effort which I’m sure could not be implemented overnight

      Obama literally can’t help but save/create jobs.

    2. Doing so involves a massive computer-reprogramming effort which I’m sure could not be implemented overnight

      A small plug-pulling effort, OTOH ….

      1. The Treasury mainframe is shovel-ready.

      2. “I know that you and Frank were planning to disconnect me, and I’m afraid that is something I cannot allow to happen.”

    3. And this whole time I had been blaming politicians and bureaucrats for wasting our tax dollars!
      Turns out it was the computers who spent that money! What are the Senators supposed to do: reprogram a computer?!?

      1. What are the Senators supposed to do: reprogram a computer?!?

        Obviously not. But it will take weeks to get the requisition approved for some programmer time.

        1. It will take weeks for IT bureaucrats to hire a contractor to do the programming while they watch.

          1. Lowest bidder, minority-owned, and read-to-play-ball-on-kickbacks contractor.

            1. You got two out if three anyway, SF.

              Lowest bidder? BWAHAHAHA.

              1. way too fucking much – 1 < way too fucking much

                Lowest bidda… winna, winna!

              2. Lowest unionized, DNC contributing bidder.

    4. Like the checks the bank provides me – you don’t actually have to have any money in the account to send them out to people. It’s wild man.

    5. This is such bullshit. There’s always a way to keep bulk jobs from running. The “reprogramming” usually involves updating a database table. Lying mendacious fucks.

      1. They’ll have to raise the debt ceiling to pay the overtime for the IT people needed to do this arduous “reprogramming” anyway, so…

        1. I have watched world class large-scale government IT fuckups at close range for a dozen years. Turning shit off is the one thing employees can do without contractor help. They’ve had enough practice doing that after contractors come through and fuck everything up. I’m thinking especially of the state payroll system rollout in FL in 2004. Total. Fucking. Disaster. And yet everyone somehow got paid for the year or so it took them to get something that did the vital 15% of the promised system.

    1. THAT does it! NOW I’m mad as hell!

  10. Well, I won’t link them all, but I saw a friend link a bunch of thinkprogress articles this morning, all of which talk about what a bunch of hypocrites the GOP is:

    GOP Leaders Voted For Three Of The Biggest Debt Drivers, Costing $3.4 Trillion

    After Enthusiastically Using Filibuster, GOP Begs Democrats Not To Filibuster Cut, Cap, And Balance.

    FLASHBACK: Republicans Never Voted On A Balanced Budget Amendment When They Controlled Congress Under Bush

    After Boehner Releases Plan That Doesn’t Cut Entitlements, He Rejects Reid Plan For Not Cutting Entitlements

    Soooo, what have we learned? Nothing new, unfortunately. They all suck, and are all free of principles. This could not be a more blatant team red/team blue dispute.

    1. Ask your Retarded think progress buddies why in the world Team Blue would filibuster in a Senate that they control.

      Or did they forget that they still had a majority in the Senate and control it’s agenda?

      Jesucristo, partisans are dumb.

      1. Haha, I didn’t even consider that. I was too busy focusing on the mutual hypocrisy.

        1. ThinkProstate is just another gaggle of dour, humorless, angry leftists.

          Kinda like a mirror-universe FreeRepublic, except Biden doesn’t have a beard like “evil Spock” did.

    2. Since the republicans were fiscally irresponsible in the past, we must conimue to be even more fiscally irresponsible. BOOGITY BOOGITY BOOGITY AMEN!

      1. Good lord, where did I say I endorsed any of that nonsense? Did you even bother to read what I said?

      2. Did you read his last line? They do all suck. TEAM RED has found religion like Huck Finn’s dad when the preacher took him in.

    3. You could pretty much do the same for the other guys, of course, if you just pick different years. It’s usually more reliable to say “Party in power” and “Party out of power” than “Republican” or “Democrat”.

  11. It has now been nine days since The Chupacabra promised to release his hot sauce recipe!

    Nothing else happened.

    1. The Chupacabra lies. That’s how he manages to seduce all those goats.

      1. So much for transparency! For a magazine called reason, etc.


      1. Man, your groomer is a fucking slacker, STEVE.


  12. A 14-year-old Mexican hitman has been sentenced to three years in juvenile prison for murder, kidnapping, and trafficking cocaine.
    a local juvenile court had found the minor guilty of four crimes including killing four people whose mutilated bodies were found hanging from a bridge not far from Mexico City last August.
    An army statement in December said Jimenez had admitted killing at least seven people

    Well, if you ask me, what that whippersnapper needs is a good spanking.

    1. I blame violent videogames.

      1. That kids life is directly lifted from a GTA4 script. Rockstar should be suing him for IP theft.

    2. Then they wonder why their country is full of animals. But no, it must be the fault of the US and its drug laws, cuz if it wasn’t for the drug trade they’d all be choir boys down there.

  13. The communications were between ATF Special Agent in Charge of the Phoenix office, Bill Newell, and White House National Security Director for North America Kevin O’Reilly. Newell said the two are longtime friends. The content of what Newell shared with O’Reilly is unclear and wasn’t fully explored at the hearing.

    There will be plenty of time to explore the details later, once the White House has had time to erect a proper stone wall.

    1. A wall keeping out the undesirable from Mexico? Yet another campaign promise broken by Obama.

    2. Wasn’t one of the 9/11 failures between FBI guys in Arizona who reported to DC that the guys were learning how to take off but not land? If so, why do the brass in DC have a hearing problem for their AZ field people? If not, well, ignore this comment:)

      1. Fast and Furious was an inside job.

      2. If so, why do the brass in DC have a hearing problem for their AZ field people?

        the brass in DC

        in DC

    3. White House National Security Director for North America Kevin O’Reilly.

      Why would there be a National Security Director for anywhere other than North America? OK, I can see having one for Hawaii as well, but really? What nation is there outside of NA otherwise?

      I think I just found some more fat for you to trim, Mr. Boner.

  14. Border bust humiliates senior
    Motor oil in her van didn’t contain heroin after all

    1. Nothing else happened.

  15. A 14-year-old Mexican hitman has been sentenced to three years in juvenile prison for murder, kidnapping, and trafficking cocaine.

    He’ll be out for prom!

    1. You’d do him.

  16. “””The leaders of the military say they cannot adequately prepare for more wars if Congress trims the defense budget. “””‘

    Oh, No, we may have a war shortage.

    1. [insert feature-not-bug boilerplate here]

    2. We can’t allow America to lose it’s global lead in war-mongering.

      1. Mr. President, we must not allow a war-mongering gap!


  17. In an interview this week at Union Station, just blocks from the U.S. Capitol, Beers said he views the debt limit fight as a test of lawmakers’ willingness to tackle the deficit.

    “For us, the issue is not the debt limit — it’s the underlying fiscal dynamics,” said Beers, who has been rating governments for the company for 20 years. “It’s not obvious to us that this political divide that is proving so difficult to bridge is going to be any more bridgeable three months from now or six months from now or a year from now.”

  18. The leaders of the military say they cannot adequately prepare for more wars if Congress trims the defense budget.

    As you know, ah, you go to war with the army you have—not the army you might want or wish to have at a later time.

  19. Detroit police attack student – for once video not destroyed.…..9/Gang-cop‘s-actions-cost-Detroit-$677-000

    1. and nothing else happened.

      1. nor matters.

        1. Thanks, now I’m going to hear James Hetfield every time I see that stupid phrase.

          1. *headbangs*

    2. “A Detroit Police Gang Squad officer”
      Are they finally admitting that the are just a well organized street gang?

    3. “In the past, Officer Hughes has not been found guilty of criminal or departmental charges that would have warranted dismissal,” Stephens said.
      Oh dunphy!
      Come out and play!

    4. I love this quote from former deputy chief and current city council member Gary Brown “while the money paid out to settle lawsuits against Hughes is high, the officer is not unique.”He’s not the worst,” Brown said. “There are worse.”

      Any chance you could get hold of the ones that are worse and, I dunno, fire them or something.

    5. “Officer Eugene Brown, during his career, shot nine people, three of whom died. By early 2004, the city had spent almost $8 million in lawsuits stemming from his actions.

      Brown was cleared in each case of wrongdoing in internal police investigations.

      1. No double standard for police. Internal police policies, investigation, and discipline keep any problems under control. Bad cops get fired. Good cops make sure nobody gets out of hand.

        1. There needs to be a special internet font for sarcasm.

          1. I vote for Wingdings.

            1. Speaking of that, aren’t we coming up on the anniversary of “the Day of the Commentors?”

              1. What was that?

                1. aren’t we coming up on the anniversary of “the Day of the Commentors?”

                  That was on Feb. 19th.

                  1. I’m right. It was August 18.

                    I wonder if they’ll give us back our toys that one day out of the year.

                    1. It was Pro Libs fault. **Blink** is what caused the squirrels to act.

                    2. I can’t believe no one got screenshots of the threads that day. My fault as much as anyone’s of course.

                    3. speaking of the wiki…man that thing is out of date. and lacking in content.

                      Also, I’d like to suggest new rule for the drinking game: Drink whenever someone thread jacks/link whores. Can I get a very thirsty AMEN?

              2. Has it been a year already?

                1. Why did they take away all the blinking text and the gif of that chick pulling on her jeans?

                  And why do I think that was in August anyway?

                  1. Seriously, that gif is mesmerizing.

                    1. Yeah it is. I think the boobs are real. They are made to look bigger by the great bra she is wearing. It is just amazing.

                  2. Jeans girl nude here. NSFW, obviously.

                    1. Shay Laren looks better in that than in any other pic I’ve seen her in.

              3. Yes, as noted previously, on August 18. Friggin’ Internet isn’t worth anything, since it failed to record that day for posterity.

          2. There needs to be a special internet font for sarcasm.

            I prefer the mocking faux-handle, personally.

            1. You’d think that’d be a giveaway, wouldn’t ya?

            2. I think it should be mandatory to end any sarcastic comment with “Hurr Durrr”

              1. Oh, Shit! Infinite loop?

      2. You’re a loose cannon, Brown!

  20. Islamophobes distance themselves from Breivik

    As the media discovers more about the man behind the Norway attacks, connections to outspoken US Islamophobes are found.
    Jim Lobe Last Modified: 26 Jul 2011 13:51
    >”As his writings indicate, Breivik is clearly a product of this predominantly web-based community of anti-Muslim, anti-government and anti-immigration bloggers, writers and activists,” according to Archer.

    He also noted that, in contrast to the traditional European right, this network tends to be philo-Semitic and supports the most extreme right-wing parties in Israel.

    Particularly striking is the overlap between the US members of this network – all of whom are identified with the neo-conservative movement – with the leaders of last year’s controversial campaign to prevent the construction of a Muslim community centre near the World Trade Center site in Lower Manhattan, the so-called “Ground Zero Mosque”.

    The same bloggers and groups also actively promoted “Obsession: Radical Islam’s War Against the West”, a film produced by the Clarion Fund, an apparent front for the far-right Israeli group Aish Hatorah, that compares the threat posed by radical Islam to that of Nazi Germany in the 1930s.

    Some 28 million DVD copies of the video were distributed to households in key swing states on the eve of the 2008 president elections in an apparent effort to sway voters against Barack Obama.

    At one point in his manifesto, Breivik referred readers to YouTube segments of all 10 parts of “Obsession”.

    “As his writings indicate, Breivik is clearly a product of this predominantly web-based community of anti-Muslim, anti-government and anti-immigration bloggers, writers and activists.”

    Among other sources cited by the manifesto, the “Jihad Watch” blog and its author, Robert Spencer, is cited no less than 162 times, while Daniel Pipes and his Middle East Forum (MEF) gets 16 mentions, according to a tally by the Center for American Progress, a liberal think tank here.

    Another blogger, Pamela Geller, and her “Atlas Shrugs” blog is cited 12 times in the manifesto, while the Center for Security Policy (CSP), its president, Frank Gaffney, and CSP’s senior fellow for Middle Eastern Affairs, Caroline Glick, appear a total of eight times.…..53373.html

    1. JOOS!

      1. nope. RW hate mongering motivates mass-murderer IN THE MURDERERS OWN WORDS.

        1. So if I flip my lid and write a minifesto stating I murdered 100 people because of OO’s writings, it is clearly OO’s fault those people were murdered. QED!

          1. No. Only rightwingers are responsible for people who act on their writings. You don’t know how this works. Marx bear no responsibility for the hundreds of millions murdered trying to put his ideas into practice. But Sarah Palin and every blogger right of the Daily KOS is directly and criminally responsible for the actions of a lone nut in Norway.

          2. pure denial. typical

            1. “Denial” isn’t pejorative when you are “denying” something completely ridiculous and untrue.

            2. whatever happened to impure denial?

        2. Re: OO,

          nope. RW hate mongering motivates mass-murderer IN THE MURDERERS OWN WORDS

          Just like the Qua’ran would motivate mass-murderers in the murderers’ own words. This “The texts made me do it!” goes both ways, sir.

          1. interesting that u equate RW hate-mongering w islam…a religion the RW hates. full circle stupid

            1. ^^This is your brain flatlining^^

    2. Jeebus on a crutch.

      The guy had a 1500 page manifesto. No telling who showed up in there.

      He didn’t kill a single Muslim. How is this shooting spree anti-Muslim?

      If anything, he was anti-ruling-party, since he was attacking their children and designated heirs.

      Amazing, how with enough sawing and hammering, you can make absolutely anything fit The Narrative.

      1. He was “anti-government”, so all libertarians are implicated too, according to some Narratives.

    3. Islamaphobes Distance Themselves From Man Who Shot A Bunch Of White, Non-Islamic Youth

  21. As his writings indicate, Archer is clearly a product of this predominantly web-based community of anti-anti-Muslim, anti-anti-government and anti-anti-immigration bloggers, writers and activists.


    2. Two negatives equal a plus. So, anti anti Muslim means he was part of a pro Muslim and government web community?

      1. no it means hate = murder…again

        1. If hate equaled murder, every reader and poster on the Daily Kos would be on death row. Shut the fuck up moron.

          1. all opinions i disagree with should be silenced as hate speech because of teh murders

              1. -1001 for even more hate

        2. more pure denial

          1. Sort of how you deny your own transcendant idiocy?

            1. Did you know OO is known to have regularly visited libertarian web sites?

              1. I heard OO also likes whole roasted kittens in a light bearnaise sauce.

      2. Anti-anti-abortion =/= pro-abortion.

  22. Something with remembering the past: National debt limit raised to avoid ‘certain default’ (1987)

    The Congress on Wednesday passed an emergency, one-week increase in the national debt limit…The congressional action temporarily averted what Treasury Secretary James A. Baker III warned would have been certain default Friday, when government’s coffers would have reached empty with too many bills to pay. The U.S. government never has defaulted, and the consequences would be severe, he said…In anticipation of the stopgap borrowing authority, the Treasury on Wednesday scheduled two security auctions for Thursday and a third on Friday.

    1. Let me be clear.

      America can, and must, return to its former greatness.

      1. Please resign.

  23. Screw the Pentagon. They waste more money than almost anyone in Washington not named Barney Frank or Nancy Pelosi. The problem is that they will cut needed things to keep their contractor and former general buddies in business. I don’t trust those bastards as far as I can throw them.

    1. Why do you hate up-armored humvees so much?

      1. Paying an extra $500k for something the A-team threw together once a week in a montage seems excessive to me.

        1. We sahould outsource it to China – only cost $100K.

          1. China’s paying for it anyway. How are we going to fight a war against China when they’re footing the bill?

        2. Sure BA and they guys were awesome at fixing up that van, but they were really wasting their time.

          How many times did they bust out of the barn with the van and roar through a giant crowd of automatic weapon toting bad guys who failed to hit the A-Team with a single round?

          Of course, the A-Team’s marksmanship was just as atrocious. I don’t remember them hitting any of the bad guys either. The only way the bad guys were ever stopped during the requisite chase was when they drove over some obstacle and rolled their jeeps.

      2. Those actually serve a purpose and will thus be the first thing to go. We have to keep 1000s of contractors in combat zones earning six figure tax free incomes for doing little or nothing that the soldiers already there couldn’t do.

        1. And the aircraft carriers, we were so traumitized by Pearl Harbor that we are still stockpiling them things seventy years on.

          1. I like those. We are the only country in the world that can build and operate them. They are much cheaper and less dangerous than maintaining air bases all over the world. They really are the Great White Fleet of today. Nothing projects power like putting a carrier off the cost of some shit head country.

            I think because of the rise of cruise missiles and drones they are less and less useful against big powers like China and Russia. But they still are plenty nice to have around to deal with fuckheads like Chavez or the mad Mullahs in Iran.

            1. Plus you never know when we might need to fight another big air battle in the middle of the ocean.

            2. I have a bad feeling the carrier fleet will one day meet the fate of the battleships at Pearl Harbor.

              Anti-ship missile technology continues to evolve, after all. It reminds me of the “race” between armor and cannon in the 19th century, only this time the race is between missiles and anti-missile technology. I know which I’d bet on, and it isn’t the big slow-moving targets.

              1. I think carriers are headed for the fate of the battleship. But they will still have uses. Hell, battleships still have uses. If the ones in mothballs didn’t take so many people to operate, the Navy would still have them. They are fabulous for low intensity warfare. But I think sadly the days of dominating great powers with carriers is coming to an end.

                1. When you want to throw shells the size of a VW over the horizon, there’s no substitute.

                2. While I can see both your and R.C.’s points, what do you see stopping the carriers? To kill them, even with a converted IRBM (not that NORAD wouldn’t completely lose their shit if they saw IRBM/ICBM launch signatures), you first need to target them. Getting their position nailed down closely enough to target them seems really challenging, the occasional ASW fuck-up aside.

                  A better critique is that the CVBG doesn’t have a lot of staying power relative to land bases. They are tremendously dependent on a constant stream of AORs/AOEs, the sort of logistics stream that any enemy competent enough to kill the CVBG in the first place will have little trouble interrupting. It’s just that the USN hasn’t faced a competent enemy in wartime for a very long time.

                  Now, if China/India/threat of the week gets a significant space-based reconnaissance and ASAT capability—never mind things like ‘rods from God’— all bets are off.

                  1. Land bases depend on a stream of logistics too. And it is easier to resupply in the open ocean than it is a remote base somewhere.

                  2. Getting their position nailed down closely enough to target them seems really challenging, the occasional ASW fuck-up aside.

                    Real-time satellite imagery would solve this problem. And if some piddly-ass kleptocracy doesn’t have their own, they can probably get it from someone who does.

                    I’m honestly not sure what kind of anti-ship missile would be needed to take out a carrier. But I bet there are plenty of people who do, and are building them now.

                    I also don’t know what kind of satellite surveillance is available to Russia or China. But that, too, is a matter of time.

                  3. “‘rods from God'”

                    While I love this concept, I’m thinking that conservation of momentum would require satellites throwing rebar to carry lots of extra fuel to stabilize their orbits.

                    1. ARen’t they pretty close to building a death laser that can come from outer space?

                    2. While I love this concept, I’m thinking that conservation of momentum would require satellites throwing rebar to carry lots of extra fuel to stabilize their orbits.

                      I thought the satellites in that case were the rebar + engine—each chunk of rebar orbited independently and had its own small retrorocket? Carrying two engines (one to get up + one to get down) + lots of mass makes a large payload however you look at it. The original telephone pole of tungsten with a motor and guidance system is, IIRC, 6400 kg just for the warhead. Given the literally astronomical costs to get stuff into LEO ($5500/kg for something like the Long March II), there are much cheaper ways of killing something. And this doesn’t get into the costs of developing a guidance system that can look through re-entry plasma, though I guess they can just steal the one that was developed for Pershing II, it’s 35 years old, after all. In any event, Project Thor is just another weapons delivery system, albeit one that’s difficult to detect and even harder to stop.

                      The targeting system is what I think’s going to be key. And that requires a stream of satellites—both information-gathering and communications—with their ground stations, and means to defend both. I agree with R.C. that it’s only a matter of time before such things become inexpensive enough for even pissants like Khadafy or SLORC.

                      Re, the death ray, I thought a large problem was the gigantic power consumption such things need? The Navy’s Laser Weapons System, last I read, ganged 6 32kW lasers for each shot. I’ve no idea how long the pulses were, but I thought you needed something the size of a ship to power them/charge & store the capacitor banks? Difficult to get that much power in space from solar panels, and everyone gets really fussy at the idea of orbiting nuclear reactors, not to mention the engineering research you’d need to figure out how to cool the thing.

                    3. “I thought the satellites in that case were the rebar + engine—each chunk of rebar orbited independently and had its own small retrorocket? “

                      The Niven-Pournelle version were essentially 8 feet of steel rebar thrown by rail guns powered by solar energy. Bonus if you can clear the path with a plasma discharge. Basically, you’re just putting in enough energy to de-orbit it rapidly. Gravity will do the rest. Drop one on a tank or a series on a missle silo/bridge/dam. It would work just like those concrete filled JDAMs, but the satellite gives you faster time-on-target.

          2. None were sunk on Dec. 7 – shouldn’t we be stockpiling battleships instead?

            1. In some ways that makes sense. If drones and cruise missiles make it easy for the enemy to hit you, you need to either hide better or survive the hit better. It is hard to hide with modern radar and satellites. But if the biggest anti-ship missile wouldn’t sink a ship like the New Jersey. And an attack like the one on the USS Cole would literally be sweepers man your brooms.

    2. Yeah, and thank goodness no one in congress is culpable or in cahoots with the fat-cat-generals and admirals!

      1. I didn’t say they didn’t have help. Yes, the whole lot of them suck ass and would trade the defense of this country for a few extra bucks. Sad but true. We need to ban every flag officer from any future employment upon retirement.

    3. Oh, you mean like when the Air Force wanted to (and did) cut over 20000 Airmen to buy more of me? And the big shit-fit the fighter mafia threw when told they couldn’t have over 300 of me?

    4. Hey, don’t forget me!

  24. When MoDo thinks the Republicans are overplaying their hand, that’s code for winning. Meanwhile, the White House press corp beats Jay Carney like a pinata about not having a debt plan.

    I can tell you right now that there are at least 2 losers in the debt deal. Obama and American citizens. There may be more.

    1. Not having a plan is leadership. Next question, and no more right-wing talking points.

    2. I am starting to think this is all an act. That Obama is just posturing to reassure dipshits like Tony. And that he will at the last moment sign onto the Boehner plan.

      1. I think he wants to force things into a crisis so he can seize emergency powers and neutralize any political pushback from the House.

    3. I think Jay Carney enjoys being beaten like a pinata. He keeps coming back for more!

      1. Maybe Claire Shipman just isn’t into that kind of thing. So Carney took that job to get his masochism fix. Cheaper than paying a dominatrix I guess.

      2. In fairness to Mr. Carney, he is being told by his boss to go out and give the Baghdad Bob routine on a regular basis. I assume he’s angling for a regular gig as a talking head on Sunday after the Obama administration and willing to take his lumps to get it.

        1. Yeah, but no one takes that job without knowing it is to be a paid professional liar of the worst sort. The fact that he would even want the job says about all you need to know about his character.

          1. I’m just saying, at least Tony Snow was good at it. Clinton’s guys were okay. That guy McClellon GWB had for the first term was a disaster, as was Gibbs. I’m starting to revise my Gibbs opinion though after seeing Carney. Maybe they were just selling a shit product. Polish a turd til its shiny but its still shit.

            1. To do that job effectively, you need a sense of humor since you and the reporters know a lot of what you say is bullshit. And you need to be quick on your feet and be able to deal with opposing arguments.

              Carney is a humorless, smug liberal douche. And thus has no sense of humor and no ability to deal with counter arguments effectively. And is a complete disaster.

        2. I will never forgive Carney for being a douchey white guy who managed to marry the lovely Claire Shipman. His taking this job and being even more slimy than the usual occupant of the job just confirms my pre-existing dislike of the guy.

    4. I never quite understood the “Republican House will get the blame” narrative on this.

      Weak analogy here – it’s like the CEO of a company blaming the finance department for late shipments. Isn’t it up to the CEO to break deadlocks and move the process along?

      1. Yes. And shouldn’t the black Jesus, New FDR, great pants crease, sends a thrill up everyone’s leg transcendent President be able to step in and make a deal that gets through Congress?

        1. Wow, you really, really, really care about what Chris Matthews thinks. It’s touching in a weird way. And it’s so cute when you slag off your boss (assuming you still work for the government).

          It’s not like crankypants McCain would have done much better. Only Allah knows what kind of shit he would have gotten up to.

          1. I really sorry this Obama thing has worked out so poorly for you. It must really be hard waking up every day knowing you voted for a guy who is turning out to be a complete disaster. And must especially hurt that you did it for stupid and shallow reasons.

            It writing douchy and meaningless comments on here is what helps you get through the day and deal with these issues, I guess you should do what you need to do.

            1. You made several assumptions that aren’t true.

              One, I didn’t and don’t vote.

              Second, I think it’s bad for the Republic when neither party can produce a single statesmen so I’m sure I’ll be disappointed no matter who is or will be president.

              Third, see the first mistake you made.

              I think it’s funny how you get so upset over things you have no way of controlling. I don’t think the “black Jesus” thing is funny but you have to live with yourself just as we all do.

              1. I am not upset at all. And if you can’t see the humor in making fun of the rediculous things said during the 08 election by allegedly serious people (his pant crease was perfect, he will be President and a good one David Brooks and he sends a trill up my leg when he speaks Chris Matthews), you have issues that go beyond an internet forum.

                1. “…issues that go beyond an internet forum.”

                  That’s kind of funny, well done.

                  The obsession with Matthews is creepy, though. I’d recommend you drop it.

          2. I think McCain would have been worse than Obama. He would have taken much the same course as Obama, but Republicans would not have opposed him much, if at all. The Tea Party movement probably would not even exist without Obama as President…

            1. Yeah, but we wouldn’t have Obamacare. No way would the Dems in Congress have given him a healthcare deal. And the Tea party started with Pork Busters which started under Bush. The Tea Party would have happened regardless I think.

              And no way would a Dem Congress have rolled over and let McCain go to war the way they did with obama and Libya. If McCain had won, we would still have an anti-war movement. And Dems would actually still be against war. The Republicans will support the President either way in that situation. The Dems will only support other Dems.

            2. And all of those Bush anti terror policies you hate so much, would not be “bi Partisan” the way they are now if McCain had won.

      2. I never quite understood the “Republican House will get the blame” narrative on this.

        It’s probably true to some extent. Most Americans have little or no clue what this stuff is really all about, and they’re being deliberately fed a ton of misinformation from Obama and all his stooges in the media.

      3. On one level that would imply dictatorial powers, which the left has been begging Obama to put into practice.

        Obama could have a finance team put together a package of their own, and they claim to have done so, but apparently Carney pulled the “they’ll have to pass our budget to find out what’s in it” card to the press yesterday. So it looks like that is even too much to hope for.

      4. In these type of stalemates, the part of government not controlled by Team Blue always gets the blame.

      5. No? There aren’t any checks and balances between the finance dept. and the CEO, he’s their direct superior.

        POUTUS is not the head of Congress, his only real legal input is whether or not to veto any bill that they pass. If he wants to be involved, it’s only to minimize the chance that they do pass something he doesn’t like, in which case he would have to veto it and everything would look like his fault.

  25. I finally figured out who Michelle Obama reminds me of…The Creeper.…..00287e.jpg…..atton1.jpg

    1. Does this jacket make my ass look big?

      1. No, Michelle. The jacket doesn’t make your ass look big. You just have a, umm, low center of gravity.

        1. She is just big boned.

          1. Laugh all you want, crackers, but when I become Health Czarina, you’ll be gumming your tofu after my enforcers knock them all out of your sheet-wearing heads.

  26. Tomah police shoot dog

    Tomah police shot and killed a dog Tuesday evening that tried to bite two children and charged at an officer.

    A boy used his skateboard to fend off the mixed breed dog until bystanders helped the kids escape. Officers found the dog standing in the street and approaching them aggressively.

    During the standoff the dog again charged towards the children when a man attempted to retrieve the girl’s bicycle. The officers used pepper spray twice but were unable to subdue the dog, which lunged at an officer with bared teeth, according to police.

    Area libertarians wet themselves and complained that the police did not attempt to reason with the dog.

    Nothing else happened.…..03286.html

    1. unable to subdue the dog, which lunged at an officer with bared teeth

      Well, that officer was obviously teasing the dog.

    2. Police shoot two horses after chase.…..ter_chase/

      1. “STOP RESISTING!”

      2. How did the cops get guns in the UK?

    3. Apparently you think that puts the cops in a good light. They really needed to shoot a dog that a boy fended off with a skateboard?

      1. No kidding. They don’t have a dog catcher in that town?

        1. The dog catcher would have just caught him and taken him to the pound. Where’s the fun in that? This way, the cops got to kill.

          1. True. Better they handle their bloodlust by killing an animal than a human. Any chance the police passed out from the adrenaline rush when it was over?

        2. No one in that town could be elected dogcatcher.

        3. What I want to know is, why are they so much more accurate when shooting at a dog?

        4. No kidding. They don’t have a dog catcher in that town?

          Had a raccoon in the garage recently. Called the number for animal control and the police answered (it was after 5pm). They said to leave a message since the police can’t do anything about it.

          If I wasn’t calling from my home phone, I would have replied, “You shoot dogs, why not raccoons?”

          Of course, animal control must “catch and release” which is most of the nuisance wildlife problem to begin with. The police use the correct method for the exactly wrong problem, and vice versa: they shoot dogs who usually have an owner that can be asked to subdue the dog; wildlife they treat as if it’s someone’s pet.

          1. Should have told them you thought the raccoon was smoking reefer.

          2. You should have said you had a ‘coon in your garage, they’d be over there with a SWAT team.

    4. Bystanders help kids get out of danger. Police show up and kill animal that was no longer a threat.

      Thanks for the update, asshole.

      1. You know, there was a Reno 911 episode where a guy called the cops to put his dog out of his misery…they did, it was his neighbors dog. I never realized that show was a documentary.


    Obama’s poll numbers crumbling in battleground states. Honestly, can anyone see any way he could win states like Virginia and North Carolina and Ohio this time around?

    1. Giving away mortgages to unqualified people?

      1. It worked for Bush, that’s for sure.

    2. Obama will be re-elected because of America’s affirmative addiction.

    3. It would certainly take a miracle for him to win Virginia again. It literally took less than a year for the state to get fed up with his schtick.

      I agree that many of the national polls are understating how much trouble he’s in. Unless things turn around, a mini-landslide is possible.

      1. Whoever the R is just has to not get crushed in NoVA. By Connolly barely won against a pretty flawed candidate.
        Obama built a lead of more than 110,000 votes just in Fairfax. something like 50,000 votes in Alexandria City and comparable in Arlington. the rest of the state was fairly even.

  28. Have we won in Libya yet?

    1. Old news. Debt fight is ALL.

      1. I have a horny compulsion to keep bringing it up. Please try to forgive me.

        1. We aren’t trying to win in Libya. We’re just trying to protect the rebels so they can win the fight on their own.

          1. that’s too difficult for wingnutz to understand. concepts must be reduced to simplistic memes in black n white only.

            1. Hence, me no understand. HUURRR DUURRR

            2. Is this kid retarded?

              1. He’s tweaking, like usual.

          2. This is true, but it is an incredibly bad plan. A nation should not enter into hostilities against another nation without a plan to win. If a nation makes a new enemy and then tries to rely on another group to defeat that enemy, they are just asking for trouble.

  29. The leaders of the military say they cannot adequately prepare for more wars if Congress trims the defense budget.

    I would argue that they cannot adequately prepare for more wars. Period. They never know what the next war will be like. They rarely even know who the next war will be with. All they know is that it will be a “war of choice” (who would willingly pick a fight with the US?)

  30. OK wow those guys make a whole lot of sense when you think about it.

  31. Austerity for thee but not for me.

  32. Only 9 hours left to get your red-hot Casey Anthony mask, for the low low price of ~$25,000!

  33. From the “my axe, I grindz it” files:
    Bachmann criticized for silence on suicides in her district

    Next up, Bachmann criticized for silence on stupidity in her district

    1. Oh hell no, Squirrels.…..53090.html

      1. next up Brett L takes remedial web course form SF Academy.

  34. Marihuana claims another young life

    This one is extra awesome, because it’s around the corner from my house.

    1. I enjoyed the pre-war spelling anyway.

  35. 1 in 6 changes order when restaurant menus list calories
    Report is one of first to track impact of New York’s requirement that chain restaurants list calories
    By Andrew Seaman updated 7/26/2011…..ay_health/

    looks like the “free market” behaves objectively despite libtoid (mis)assumptions

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