Reason.tv: MSNBC vs Sarah Palin vs The Flag vs Sanctimonious B.S.

MSNBC is taking a hard line against Sarah Palin for using the American flag to move merchandise and line her pockets. The "Lean Forward" network claims that Palin's use of the flag in various circumstances "runs afoul" of the federal codes discouraging such displays for commercial and advertising purposes. "She drapes herself in the Stars and Stripes and makes millions of dollars in the process," charges Martin Bashir.

You betcha. And we can only guess that when MSNBC wraps itself in the Red, White, and Blue - and it does - they're doing it for charity.

Read the backstory here.

Produced by Meredith Bragg. About 1 minute.

Go to Reason.tv for downloadable versions, and subscribe to Reason.tv's YouTube Channel to receive automatic notifications when new material goes live.

Comments

[Irresponsible Hater]

We're doomed. DOOOOMED.

[Ken Shultz]

The only person I've seen in my lifetime who generated the same kind of hatred from the left that Sarah Palin inspires?

Was Ronald Reagan.

I mean--if you're criticizing her because she uses the flag?!

You just hate her guts. ...and that's all there is to it--nothing more.

Anybody who makes Progressives sputter with hatred--can't be all bad.

[Pro Libertate]

I'm not in love with the woman, but she's not all bad. I guess the left feels threatened by her for some reason, because there's nothing tremendously awful about her from their perspective that I can see.

[Otto]

MSNBC would be apoplectic at the idea of stopping flag-burning (LD - 1A), yet they're going to call Palin out for FLAG CODES? Fuck me.

[MNG]

It's probably a meme targeting hypocrisy dude, the same folks who have a nearly mystical reverence for the flag and made such a show over Obama's lapel pin are actually violating the code on the flag.

[Tman]

That's nuthin Minge. You should see what they do with the flag at the Tractor Pulls.

[MNG]

Wear them under their overalls?

[Tman]

You'd have to take a shower in chai-latte's and read a months worth of New York Times past editions whilst listening to All Things Considered on repeat just to scrub the image from your brain.

I'm not sure you'd survive that kind of encounter.

[MNG]

I don't drink coffee. I read the NYT but prefer the WaPo. I do like All Things Considered.

I assume at tractor pulls they drink beer and a certain amount of tobacco juice, listen to country music and read, well, they listen to country music.

[David Brooks]

Stop stealing my bit.

[Tman]

Chai isn't a coffee, WaPo is simply NYTlite, and All Things Considered makes me want to kill my radio.

You won't ever live down your elitist mindset and your Walmart-informed viewpoint of the right and the south in particular just further elucidates your ignorance.

[sage]

It won't stop him from throwing on the clown nose and deflecting every time it comes up, though.

[MNG]

Oh no clown nose, I think very little of the South and very little of 'rednecks', be it their culture, their politics, their religion, what have you.

[cynical]

Weird, when I think of tractor pulls, I think of the midwest, not the south. What do you have against Ohio, minge?

[Somalian Road Corporation]

I wonder if MNG realizes that some Euros like the Dutch are also really into tractor pulls.

[JR]

I've seen a few in Wisconsin. They are fun. Sarah's an idiot, by the way.

[Bucky]

i've seen a few Dutch in Wisconsin too. They ARE fun. JR you have dog shit on your shoe...

[Pro Libertate]

And we of the South are not pleased with you. All of us. We were all at the klan meeting and agreed.

[Sy]

I tried to go but ended up at the John Deere auction.

[MNG]

What I have always loved and found yummy is this game where folks have a caricture of liberals, you know, absurdly hyper tolerant sandal wearing tree hugging vegetarians, and then when you don't live up to that they think they "gotcha" or something.

Yes I look down on people who love Wal-Mart and attend tractor pulls, look down all day long.

[Tman]

You find the fact that you're a raging hypocrite "yummy"?

Your world must be miserable.

[MNG]

I'm a hypocrite because I won't be your simplistic caricature? Hilarious.

[hyfo]

MuNG, my simplistic caricature of liberals is that they are intellectually lazy, socially awkward and confused about every topic they ever address. How do you not fit that?

[cynical]

No one here thinks of liberals as tolerant.

[Sean W. Malone]

This.

[MNG]

No, but you think of them as wishy-washes professing hyper-tolerance.

[Pro Libertate]

You mean like your caricature of Southerners?

[Episiarch]

I have zero use for Palin, and find her and her pro and anti cults to be annoying as shit and quite pathetic. In fact, I would love for her to go the fuck away so I never have to hear anything about her again.

But the left has gone FULL RETARD over her, and it has been making them look really fucking stupid for some time now.

Word of advice to leftist idiots: you're obsessed. It's obvious--blindingly obvious--to everyone but you, it seems. You're like stalkers. It's creepy and pathetic, and you might want to consider stopping.

[The Derider]

Have you looked at Palin's approval/disapproval rating?

It's around 38/56. That's a lot more people than the rabid left.

[#]

yeah but theres a difference between being obsessed with her and disapproving.

[R]

"Disapproval" isn't the same thing as "bat-shit crazy hate-stalker."

[The Derider]

Don't start no shit won't be no shit.

[sage]

PWND

[JR]

Looking forward to the whole stupid "PWND" thing fading away. I hope it doesn't last as long as the popularity of bad goatees.

[BallzRhairy]

pwnd pwnd

[MNG]

I know some leftists friends who hate her like that, it's irrational. Just to see her on tv makes them angry.

But I imagine most people on the left are like me in thinking about her very little actually. Shit, my only recent thought about her is that I hope she runs and gets the nomination.

[TrickyVic]

""I know some leftists friends who hate her like that, it's irrational. Just to see her on tv makes them angry.""

Yeah, and I have rightwing friends that do the same when they hear the word Pelosi.

[TrickyVic]

Or see Pelosi on TV.

[sevo]

"Or see Pelosi on TV."
Or smell her withing 10 miles or so.

[SIV]

Unlike Palin, Nancy Pelosi was in a position to negatively affect their lives. Now that she is no longer speaker the Pelosi-hate has morphed into occasional mocking derision.

[sevo]

"Yeah, and I have rightwing friends that do the same when they hear the word Pelosi."
One difference:
Palin didn't saddle us with Obamacare.
Pelosi deserves it.

[Ken Shultz]

Pelosi deserves the criticism she gets for her rotten positions, but a whole lotta people reserve an extra helping of malice--when it's a woman.

There's a reason people hate on Pelosi more than they do on Harry Reid--and it ain't just because she's from San Francisco. ...and it isn't just because she's a liberal either.

It used to be Janet Reno and Hillary Clinton that were treated like they ate babies. Now between people like Palin, Bachman and Christine "I'm Not A Witch" O'Donnell, we've got people on the right who are being brutalized...

out of misogyny. Let's just call it what it is. Some people hate Sarah Palin because of her politics, but a lot of people hate her all the more because she's a woman--with those political views.

The left has been crying wolf for decades--time for the left to face up to their own misogyny.

[TrickyVic]

Both teams have their reasons. My point is the right will be just as rabid as the left when it comes to their object of two minutes hate.

[Sean W. Malone]

You are right, i'm sure... But I actually always reserve way more hate for Reid because is just sooooo soooooooo stupid. It is mindboggling to watch people like that continuing to have immense power over people's lives.

[BallzRhairy]

politicians go in poor & stupid, come out rich & stupid. hmmm

[J]

"Shit, my only recent thought about her is that I hope she runs and gets the nomination."

I'm not sure if you're joking or not, but I do think a lot on the left hope this, b/c they are sure she can't beat Obama.

If this gamble doesn't work in their favor, we are all stuck with her.

[Ken Shultz]

"If this gamble doesn't work in their favor, we are all stuck with her."

If presented with a choice between an idiot whose default setting is more and bigger government--and an idiot on the other hand whose impulses trend towards capitalism?

That's a no-brainer for me.

[John-David]

+1,000,000

Be careful what you wish for. Although now it's obvious why the Obama-cultists are hating on libertarians: They know they support a guy who is worse than Bush on everything they hated about GWB.

[J]

That's not quite my point. My point is I think some Libs are hoping that a truly unelectable Republican wins the GOP nomination, thinking that Obama won't lose. If it's a more serviceable and likable one, then Obama could be in trouble.
In other words, instead of rooting for a Repub that they could half stand to see in office, they root for one they truly hate, assuming she won't win.
I think the left breathed a sigh of relief when Daniels didn't run. And any liberal would surely prefer a Republican who wants a truce on social issues to one who is full speed ahead on those issues.

[J]

This comment was meant for Ken, I replied to the wrong thing.

[Ken Shultz]

"And any liberal would surely prefer a Republican who wants a truce on social issues to one who is full speed ahead on those issues."

I'm not sure I'm following this, and I'd really like to understand it better...

But what I've seen of Palin on social issues is pretty darn moderate.

I've read her say things about smoking marijuana being no big deal. I've seen her say supportive things about gay marriage.

She carried a baby to term when she knew there was a chance it would have downs syndrome...

But even the pro-choice people should concede that choosing to have a baby with a risk like that is a choice too! The choice to have an at risk child is just as much of a valid choice as the choice to abort...

Anyway, so I'm not sure Palin's a culture war person. I think she's quite moderate on social issues actually.

She's associated with an Alaskan, self-reliant, outdoorsy image, and she got painted with a broad brush for daring to run against Obama...

I think this may be a rare opportunity for the Republicans to elect a social moderate. She's Republican enough to get the nomination, but I think she's more moderate socially than anyone else that has a chance of getting the nomination.

...and if that's what you're saying, I think I agree with you.

[Ken Shultz]

Why not throw in a link!

"I think we need to prioritize our law enforcement efforts," Palin said. "And if somebody's gonna smoke a joint in their house and not do anybody else any harm, then perhaps there are other things our cops should be looking at to engage in and try to clean up some of the other problems that we have in society."

She added that marijuana use "relatively speaking" is a "minimal problem" in the country."

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-50.....03544.html

She's not Ron Paul, but she might be the best a civil libertarian can hope for in a Republican nominee--that's for sure!

[J]

My main point has nothing to do with whether or not Palin is better than Obama or other Repubs in libertarian issues. That's an interesting question though.

My only point is this: the left excoriate Palin, and seem to obsess over her more than anyone else does. I think part of the reason they do this is they are secretly (or, in MNG's case, not so secretly) hoping she gets the nomination. The reason they want this is because they think she has no chance of beating Obama.

However, this may backfire, and though I think Obama would likely beat her, she may win. If the left hate her that much, they should realize this is a dangerous strategy.

Personally, I don't really like her or think she'd be a good president, but I also find the left's vitriol towards her hypocritical and off putting.

[Realist]

Palin is not so bright, but she is a genius compared to the sack of shit with big ears!

[JR]

Now you know that is not the case. Barry is no genius but he is certainly intelligent. Sarah is a moron. If you want to argue that barry's policies suck, I'm with you.

[MattXIV]

Palin does stand out as a hate magnet. She's a might-run presidential candidate who isn't polling very well, but she gets higher profile negative coverage than more plausible candidates and triggers the sort of insane conspiracy theorizing that is normally limited to whoever is the actual president at the time. The theory that Trig is really Palin's daughter's kid has spread suprisingly far - I thought that was confined to Andrew Sullivan's particular set of psychoses, but when Weigel posted an article calling it into doubt on Slate, the comments were overran by believers. That's a lot of crazy triggered by a relatively minor political figure.

[blogimi Dei]

You have no idea;
Up here in AK everyone thinks they are best friends with her... the ones that love her i mean...

[Leftist Idiots]

Word of advice to leftist idiots: you're obsessed.

You call that advice? By the way, it's you who are obsessed. With us.

[Troy]

I have zero use for Palin

I'd fuck her.

[Pro Libertate]

Wasn't there a line in Prizzi's Honor like that? Yes, yes there is:

He had a chance to become part of the Prizzi family.
He had no use for you.

Oh, he had a use for me Poppa.
He came to my place in New York the night before he married that woman in California.
And he forced himself on me.
And he did it to me.

[Skip]

The Left hates her mostly because they see her an uber-Christian Redneck who should have gotten down on her knees and respected her betters like Barack Obama.

[Emperor Wears No Clothes]

"...there's nothing tremendously awful about her..."

Other than being a borderline retard?

[MattXIV]

My reaction to Palin is that she shouldn't hold public office since she seems to lack an aptitude for or interest in policy details, but other than than I don't particularly care about her.

She's really good at pushing the culture war buttons - she affirms the cultural tastes associated with the right and dismisses the ones of the left, which ensures that the team red and team blue morons will get wound up over her, but if you don't care about pointless NASCAR vs NPR posturing, then all there is to her is her vague and pretty typical to the extent that they're actually made clear small government conservative policy stances. I don't like her any more than the average conservative movement figure, but the people getting more wound up about her than Huckabee or Pawlenty are idiots.

[MNG]

Oh, I think W generated a similar level of hate, and Cheney.

[silent v]

Reagan and W were Presidents, Cheney was largely viewed as the acting President. Palin is a one term governor of an insignificant state and a reality TV actor. The amount of Love coming from the Right and the amount of Hate coming from the Left is staggering compared to her significance.

[MNG]

How about Limnbaugh?

[blogimi Dei]

"one term governor"

uhhh...

[The Derider]

You always round up when talking about palin's terms in office.

[grrizzly]

I agree. She has replaced W as the object of vicious hatred. For some reason the left cannot live without demonizing and hating some right-wing pol. It was clear that in 2008 the level of hatred of Bush decreased as he was on his way out -- they got tired of hating him for eight years -- and Sarah Palin filled the need for essential, making-the-life-meaningful hatred for the Left.

[MNG]

Yeah, and the right never has an object of irrational hate, like a President they hound into impeachment and accuse of murder or one they say is born out of the nation or anything...

[grrizzly]

Lest we forget...
http://www.tnr.com/article/mad-about-you

I hate President George W. Bush. There, I said it. I think his policies rank him among the worst presidents in U.S. history. And, while I'm tempted to leave it at that, the truth is that I hate him for less substantive reasons, too. I hate the inequitable way he has come to his economic and political achievements and his utter lack of humility (disguised behind transparently false modesty) at having done so. His favorite answer to the question of nepotism--"I inherited half my father's friends and all his enemies"--conveys the laughable implication that his birth bestowed more disadvantage than advantage. He reminds me of a certain type I knew in high school--the kid who was given a fancy sports car for his sixteenth birthday and believed that he had somehow earned it. I hate the way he walks--shoulders flexed, elbows splayed out from his sides like a teenage boy feigning machismo. I hate the way he talks--blustery self-assurance masked by a pseudopopulist twang. I even hate the things that everybody seems to like about him. I hate his lame nickname-bestowing-- a way to establish one's social superiority beneath a veneer of chumminess (does anybody give their boss a nickname without his consent?). And, while most people who meet Bush claim to like him, I suspect that, if I got to know him personally, I would hate him even more.

Please tell me which senior editor of National Review or the Weekly Standard wrote anything like this lately?

[MNG]

Dude, are you seriously asking me to find someone who had similar loathing for Bill Clinton for example? Were you frozen in an iceberg from 1992-2000?

[TrickyVic]

No shit.

[TrickyVic]

That goes to MNG's comment.

There was much hatered for Clinton.

[MNG]

It's almost like Clinton was designed in a lab to piss off conservatives.

Hey, let's give this guy a past steeped in the 60's, war protest and pot smoking. Now, give him a shrill, feminist wife. OK, now make him serially unfaithful to the wife. Oh, and make him a Democrat.

Until someone came up with Barak Obama.

Alright, the guy is from an interracial marriage, black man and white woman. Hell, let's make the man not even a citizen but from Africa. Oh, and a foriegn, muslim sounding name, let's throw that shit in there. He has to have a background in urban politics, toss that in. Oh, dude, I know, let's say he lived in some strange country few Americans have evern even heard of for a few years with his globe-trotting mother!

[Tulpa]

At least conservatives actually know why they hate their hate objects. With leftists, all it takes is "Koch brothers, ATTACK" from the netroots and they're off to the races with no idea who these people are.

[TrickyVic]

""for a few years with his globe-trotting mother!""

Curly, or Meadowlark Lemon?

[Seamus]

Yes, it would certainly help if you could cite anything published in NR or The Weekly Standard during that era that approached that level of bile and vitriol.

[Mister DNA]

At least Reagan (along with Margaret Thatcher) inspired some decent punk rock.

Here's "funny person" Sandra Bernhard with some Palin-inspired humor.

[Episiarch]

You do realize that posting Sandra Bernhard links is punishable by death, right?

[Fist of Etiquette]

That's only without a warning.

[Episiarch]

Even with a warning it's a severe beating and ten days in a tiger cage.

[Fist of Etiquette]

Duh.

[Island Chief]

Death or bongo-bongo.

[Mister DNA]

Yet Golden Girls links are tolerated? Hey, at least Sandra Bernhard has Shogun Assassin and Scorcese's King of Comedy in her resume.

[Episiarch]

Look, buddy, I wouldn't fuck Sandra Bernhard with Bea Arthur's dick.

[blogimi Dei]

"Bea Arthur's dick" jokes will NEVER get old...

[MNG]

Unlike Mr. Arthur himself.

[Stanley]

That dick is all mine.

[Joli]

Sarah Palin is too intellectual to have broad appeal on the right. You need somebody with half a mind like old Ronnie. Ah for the good old days.

[sevo]

Joli|6.1.11 @ 6:44PM|#
"Sarah Palin is too intellectual to have broad appeal on the right."

Might be true, but an ignoramus like you would never figure it out.

[cynical]

It's spelled "Romney".

[Ken Shultz]

Sometimes I see them report on stuff Palin isn't doing.

Sarah Palin isn't going here, and Sarah Palin isn't doing that...

Who else in the world generates news about the stuff she doesn't do?

She gets more press than Lady GaGa.

[Troy]

She gets more press than Lady GaGa.

I'd fuck her, too.

[Anonymous Coward]

I think her disco stick might be bigger than yours.

[Patooey]

I just want to see her naked.

Is that wrong ?

[MNG]

No. We're the Silent Majority on this issue.

[Leftist Idiots]

You don't want to see them after Trig was hanging off them for two years.

[Fiscal Meth]

WOW! Every single MSNBC ad/logo drapes itself in the stars and stripes to make millions. Let's bookend that with another WOW!

[MNG]

"Palin's use of the flag in various circumstances"

The Israeli flag? Because according to her she has a bunch.

[sage]

They're upset because they're having to follow her tour bus to who knows where (she's not telling them squat), and they have to do it because Palin stories = ratings. I really like it, even if I wouldn't vote for her.

[Sy]

"They're upset because they're having to follow her tour bus to who knows where"

If that's what they're doing, then they need to turn it into a cruise and circle the antarctic for about two months during the winter. Two problems solved.

[Tman]

I think I know that most people here would answer "neither" to this question, but just for shits n giggles, if I held a gun to your head and made you chose your vote for president-

Palin Or Obama?

[Episiarch]

I'd take the gun away from you and beat you to death with it (after shooting out your kneecaps) for daring to try and make me make such a choice.

[Tman]

Seriously though, you think they're both that bad?

[Episiarch]

I think the office itself is that bad. I think that anyone who inhabits it, even someone like Ron Paul, will be corrupted, though to varying degrees.

Palin and Obama are equally vapid attention whores with zero integrity. Why would I ever pick one over the other?

[Tman]

I guess I just consider Palin less big government than Obama. I really think that her social con base would be in for a surprise if she was elected because she doesn't appear to have the fire and brimstone factor of say a Huckabee.

I agree that the office is such that no one could possibly predict how it would turn out, but I've seen already what a disaster HopeyChangey is, and I don't want our economy to have to wait another four years before beginning its recovery. I'm not guaranteeing that Palin is the answer either, but she doesn't seem poised to make the same mistakes as Obama has. Not to say she wouldn't make different worse ones, but they wouldn't be the same.

[MNG]

The problem is that were she President Palin would have to take positions on all kinds of issues she dodges right now. I agree with the person above that said the Right projects love on her just like the left projects hate. Apart from general right wing banalities she has very few stated positions.

[Tman]

Unlike our current dear leader who voted "present" most of the time, she actually already has made decisions whilst Governor. A lot of them, actually.

Obama's words as senator and during the presidential campaign (no to healthcare mandates, close Gitmo, no more extraordinary renditions, troops out of the mid east, won't go after Med Marijuana sellers, etc. etc.) clearly do not match his record as President.

How any of you leftists still support this guy after he used you like a two bit whore amazes me.

Palin actually has a record that people were allowed to see; as Mayor, Governor, her college life (records and everything!) etc.

[MNG]

"Unlike our current dear leader who voted "present" most of the time, she actually already has made decisions whilst Governor."

You're comparing Obama now to Palin as governor, of course Obama has more state positions on national policy now than she did when she was governor. WTF?

"Obama's words as senator and during the presidential campaign...clearly do not match his record as President."

Like being for the Bridge to Nowhere before being against it? But seriously you will get no argument from me that Obama has flip flopped to almost Romney-esque levels.

"How any of you leftists still support this guy after he used you like a two bit whore amazes me."

I opposed him during the nomination contest and still don't like him as President, though I likely don't hate him as much as you do.

"Palin actually has a record that people were allowed to see; as Mayor, Governor, her college life"

And they were: unimpressive, quit, and mediocre.

[Tman]

Actually, Palin has all kinds of views and positions and has stated them repeatedly on Fox for the last two years, such as her calling for a no-fly zone over Libya three works before dear leader got the balls to do it, or her tiff with the WSJ ed-page wherein she argued vociferously against the QE2.

Just because YOU say she doesn't have any positions doesn't mean it's true.

It just means you're a lying hypocritical elitist douchebag who is terrified to admit that his leftist house of cards is completely hollow and without merit. You are almost deserving of empathy you're so pathetic.

[sevo]

MNG|6.1.11 @ 6:30PM|#
..."of course Obama has more state positions on national policy now than she did when she was governor."...

You bet he does. Unfortunately, they're never the positions he lies about.

[SIV]

she has very few stated positions

Just that jury nullification thing...and marijuana decriminalization.

[MNG]

If any farmer milked their cow with the vehemence SIV milks those two quotes they would be charged with animal abuse.

She was governor for a few years before she threw in the towel, did she ever work towards any change in policy re: jury nullification and marijuana decriminalization?

[Seamus]

Alaska decriminalized the possession of marijuana when Sarah Palin was 11 years old. Are you suggesting that she ought to be working for its re-criminalization?

[SIV]

She signed the Jury Day proclamation as governor acknowledging the right of juries to decide matters of law as well as fact.Palin came out for marijuana decriminalization, if not more, in a national TV interview on Fox Business Channel last year.

http://www.politico.com/news/s.....38660.html

[Libertymike]

For moi, one thing in her favor is that she does not have an Ivy pedigree. West North Central Idaho College beats Harvard any day. Even if the former is a state school!

[Tulpa]

Don't tar the entire League because of Hahvahd and Yale. Cornell, Princeton, Penn, etc have produced valuable people.

[Tulpa]

Bush seemed like a small govt guy in 2000. The three progs of his campaign were "the culture of life", fiscal conservatism, and a humble foreign policy.

Unfortunately, he, like Palin, was an intellectual cipher who at the moment of crisis had no principles to fall back on. So he listened to his advisors, who happened to be some of the most disgusting humans ever to walk the planet.

[SIV]

Bush seemed like a small govt guy in 2000.

No, he ran as a Big Government guy. "Compassionate Conservatism", getting big things done by reaching across the aisle, school reform by increased Federal spending...

[Pro Libertate]

I have to agree with SIV here. I definitely saw Bush as potentially extra-statist with that compassionate conservative crap. At the time, I was stunned that he even won the nomination. Almost as stunned as I was by Obama's nomination, which, let's face it, proved that we've become a completely idiotic society.

[TrickyVic]

""I have to agree with SIV here. I definitely saw Bush as potentially extra-statist with that compassionate conservative crap.""

He did have some of that but he also had,

"Foreign Affairs: Bush promised a humble foreign policy with no nation building. He had criticized the Clinton-Gore Administration for being too interventionist: "If we don't stop extending our troops all around the world in nation-building missions, then we're going to have a serious problem coming down the road. And I'm going to prevent that."[1]"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G.....aign,_2000

[Boxbot]

Yep, I definitely remember Bush running as a big government conservative. Not that that in any way diminishes Tulpa's observation; the fact that Bush also pimped those small government causes alongside Compassionate Conservativism was a dead giveaway of being an intellectual cipher, no principles, etc.

Give me thoughtfully incorrect any day over incoherent good intentions.

[sage]

Sorry, man. No time.

[Fist of Etiquette]

Honest answer: There seems to be no problem for which Obama doesn't see a government solution. He has shown open contempt for and little understanding of private enterprise. And he has proven himself equally as bad on civil rights as any Republican. Palin's many faults don't add up to the terrible that is Barack Obama.

The choice here is not a good one, but for me it's fairly clear. Let's just hope it doesn't come to it for the general voting public.

[Sudden]

Nothing is more dangerous than the person that thinks they have a solution to every problem. I'd prefer the one who just doesn't think.

[sevo]

Fist of Etiquette|6.1.11 @ 6:09PM|#
"Honest answer: There seems to be no problem for which Obama doesn't see a government solution."

And which he won't lie about first.

[Fatty Bolger]

Especially problems he makes up himself. Obama excels at taking on straw men.

[JoJo Zeke]

Palin's many faults don't add up to the terrible that is Barack Obama.

THIS. To the Nth degree.

[Sudden channeling Pat Henry]

Give me Liberty or Give Me Death.

[Moistened Bint]

I'd vote for Palin. He did a good job as sort-of-executive officer for the week last time.

[Watery Tart]

But that's only because each decision of the executive officer had to be ratified in a special bi-weekly meeting.

[la dee dah poofter]

Tough titty if it did you nasty spotted prancer!

[Pro Libertate]

I think I can prove that his English birth is a hoax. Yes, it's true. Michael Palin is an American!

[ChrisO]

Palin or Obama? I doubt it would matter that much, practically speaking.

[Fatty Bolger]

I think it would. Palin would sign a bill overturning Obamacare. Palin would reverse Obama's anti-energy policies. Those two things alone would make voting for her over Obama worth it.

[Eric]

You're likely correct. But you forget that she would also have us at war with Iran, Lybia, and N. Korea.

[cynical]

Palin. But he isn't a citizen, so...

[Cole]

I often find myself in situations of having to defend Palin just because of how far the media will reach to paint her as a complete kook. I'm predicting that the theme of the 2012 presidential election from the Democrats will be "Republicans are all wacky and dumb," and they'll somehow get away with it.

Pointing at someone while circling your finger around your ear is not an argument.

[#]

well their 2010 campaign theme was "Vote for us. They suck more"

[MNG]

"I'm predicting that the theme of the 2012 presidential election from the Democrats will be "Republicans are all wacky and dumb,"

That't the theme from the Republicans.

[Otto]

It's not R or D. It's the tyrannical establishment "centrists" of either party. The David Brooks/Pauly Krugnuts-ish scum who insist that we need ever more government regulation, we need to continue bombing the Middle East, fighting the good fight against the horrible, horrible cancer and AIDS patients who smoke pot so they can eat without vomiting, and other sundry authoritarian policies. Anyone who disagrees obviously not being an "adult", of course.

[Anonymous Coward]

Obama in 2012: Sure he'll assassinate American citizens with secret evidence, but he'd never do it to you.

[Sy]

Get it down to bumper sticker material, and I'd say we have a winner.

[JoshINHB]

Obama kills his enemies
Are you next?

[Sy]

That sounds like a banner you would see on Drudge. Close 'nuf

[Nancy Pelosi]

If only she looked like me. Then no one would want her on their TV screen.

[Mister DNA]

I've seen one of those "Lean Forward" ads and I wanted to punch that dude in the fucking face.

[Sudden]

I think the "lean forward" campaign is sheer brilliance. They are telling you they want you to bend over in the most polite way they know.

[Colin]

In a related story, Bashir is demanding Bruce Springsteen's retroactive arrest for Born in the USA.

Oh, wait a minute -- Springsteen's a liberal. Never mind.

Just what we need, some British fuck telling us what to do with our own flags. Go home, asshole.

[sage]

I know, right? Shouldn't that limey be selling rubber mops on TV right now?

[Tony]

Anyone not offended by the fact that this idiot can be nominated by a major national party for VP and still gets attention as if she were a serious person is a moron himself. Everyone jumping to her defense. Poor old Sarah, they're so mean to her, liberals have PDS, blah blah blah. She is an offense to civilization, and I'm not saying that because I'm scared of her, but because I'm scared for the future of a country that even pretends to take her seriously.

[sage]

It's Tony! Hey everyone, Tony's here! How ya doin', Tony?

[Libertymike]

Tony, so are you contending that private post secondary education is supereior to public post secondary education?

[Tony]

I believe I was contending that Sarah Palin is a moron, and we should all be frightened by the fact that she's probably still not the dumbest national figure in the GOP.

In theory private education should be better all around. Funny that it doesn't always work out that way, but since not everyone can afford a private education, the question misses the relevant point, I think.

[Anonymous Coward]

I believe I was contending that Sarah Palin is a moron...

Uncle Tony, tell us the story about what a wonderful President Woodrow Wilson was. Make sure to do 'the voice' when you get to his defense of segregation in the federal government and Jim Crow laws.

[Tony]

After you explain why the Republican party is still meddling in racism 90 years after Wilson left office.

[Tony]

After you explain why the Republican party is still meddling in racism 90 years after Wilson left office.

[sevo]

Tony|6.1.11 @ 7:24PM|#
"After you explain why the Republican party is still meddling in racism 90 years after Wilson left office."

Not nearly as polished as your normal lies.

[Anonymous Coward]

After you explain why the Republican party is still meddling in racism 90 years after Wilson left office.

Care to beg the question a little harder?

[Democrat]

And we would have gotten away with the racism if it weren't for those meddling Republicans!

[Bucky]

thisssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss!

[Tony]

I believe I was contending that Sarah Palin is a moron, and we should all be frightened by the fact that she's probably still not the dumbest national figure in the GOP.

In theory private education should be better all around. Funny that it doesn't always work out that way, but since not everyone can afford a private education, the question misses the relevant point, I think.

[A Serious Man]

Then stop talking about her. Liberals bitch about her because they like making fun of her, it allows them to pretend like they are refuting mainstream counter-liberal arguments.

[Tony]

reason started it.

[Brandon]

Right. Reason said "hey, none of the networks have mentioned Palin in a while, we'll do a totally out-of-the-blue and unprompted story about her with no context."

[Libertarian2]

I didn't go to Yale, but I think this Reason piece is about hypocrisy at MSNBC, not Sarah Palin.

[Mr. FIFY]

Plus, it's "okay" to slap Palin around, or make sexist comments the way Ed Schultz did about fellow talk-radio twit Laura Ingraham.

Double standards, away!

[Sudden]

Tony, just examine the crap that is taken seriously on our television screens for a few minutes and you'll realize that Palin is hardly the first idiot/train-wreck to be considered newsworthy. Perhaps you should be more dismayed over the larger degeneration of American pop culture. Whether its Kim Kardashian, Snookie, Obama, or Palin, this country has for a long time been enamoured with celebrity to an unhealthy degree and it has led us to overlooking any number of trangressions that ought to be examined.

[Tony]

Snooki is not a political figure who people claim has some sort of reasonable chance to be president, and has never been nominated for VP. The problem isn't Palin, it's the Republican party. Never has fascism been coupled with stupidity in such an extreme way.

[Fatty Bolger]

Never has fascism been coupled with stupidity in such an extreme way

Well you're probably half right, anyway.

[cynical]

In a purely technical sense, you are right. Fascism has not never been coupled with stupidity on the extreme that Palin occupies. The Obama administration might be a more fruitful place to start.

[#]

i don't think you know the definition of that word tony

[R C Dean]

Never has fascism been coupled with stupidity in such an extreme way.

Is it just me, or did Tony just bash Team Blue?

[R C Dean]

Never has fascism been coupled with stupidity in such an extreme way.

Is it just me, or did Tony just bash Team Blue?

[BallzRhairy]

Politics = show business for ugly people

[Seamus]

Anyone not offended by the fact that this idiot can be nominated by a major national party for VP and still gets attention as if she were a serious person is a moron himself.

Wait a minute. When did we start talking about Joe Biden?

[sevo]

Sorry, Seamus. Beat me to it.

[sevo]

Tony|6.1.11 @ 6:26PM|#
"Anyone not offended by the fact that this idiot can be nominated by a major national party for VP and still gets attention as if she were a serious person is a moron himself."

One mistake: That's "he", and you're right. Biden is an embarrassment.

[Fatty Bolger]

But Biden sees dead restaurants. That's so cool.

[Pro Libertate]

What was really telling in 2008 was how the natural comparison--and the one people on both sides focused on--was between Obama and Palin. The presidential candidate and the VP candidate. Neither belonged or belongs within a hundred miles of the White House, but what does that say about Obama?

America! There are 310 million of us! We can do better. Much better. An order of magnitude better.

[JW]

I'm starting to warm to that Vader guy. He seems like he can get the job done.

[Bucky]

the new fav is Owebama saying "Well, Romney started it with Masscare!"...
in what universe does that work...

[Shorter Tony]

"OOOOoooooooh, Big Daddy Obaaaaaama... it tastes like... like... rainbow juice made from freshly-squeezed kittens! *SLURRRRRRRRRRP* -- !!!"

[Mr. FIFY]

Replace "Palin" with "Cynthia McKinney", and you'd have a point, Tony.

[Ted S.]

The "Lean Forward" network

They really mean "Bend Over".

[Joe Jr.]

I saw dem doing that leaning ting!

[Jim]

I don't understand the strange amount of hate that blows her way. I think it's just red meat for the Team Blue base, honestly.

That being said, I really don't like her at all myself. I don't like several decisions she made in Alaska (though I'm sure he staunch defenders can come up with all kinds of reasons why everything she ever did was the right move), and I hate folksy, dontcha know politicians even more than I hate technocrats (strictly a personal prejudice on my part; the elitist technocrat talks down to you because he believes he is better than you. The "folksy" pol tries to pretend that he doesn't think he's smarter / better than you, even though he really does). And I truly hate American Exceptionalism, which is a philosophy she espouses (Team Blue has picked up on this recently as well; see the car thread earlier today).

Plus, I can't help but feel that if it had been an unwed black teenager who had a kid, the narrative would have been a 80s-esque "unwed black teenage mother; what's wrong with black culture?" instead of, "oh isn't she brave for not getting an abortion!" which I read in several Team Red mags during the election.

[Sudden]

instead of, "oh isn't she brave for not getting an abortion!" which I read in several Team Red mags during the election.

It ain't just for TEAM RED!!1!! anymore. There is a whole shitshow dedicated to this fucking theatre of the absurd on MTV now that is extremely popular among 15-29 y/o women of a TEAM BLUE!!11! pedigree.* What I wouldn't give to see some Harold Camping SOB barge into a recording of one of those episodes yelling "SLUT!"

*I only know this because I am engaged and must restrain myself from offing myself everytime I see that thing come up on my DVR.

[Jim]

Yeah I know the show, but the Team Redders I know don't like it, even though they're fine with Palin's grandkid situation.

Team Blue has always been fine with kids out of wedlock; more welfare constituents down the road. I was referring specifically to those GOP voters who, if it was a person of a different color in a different situation in life, would decry her having a child as some sort of moral failing, and yet turn Palin's kid into a moral paragon for not having the abortion. It's a damned if you do, damned if you don't thing. The "wrong people" who have kids out of wedlock are immoral for having kids out of wedlock; the "right people" are considered moral for the exact same activity because they focus on the anti-abortion aspect of it, instead of the breakdown-of-the-traditional-family aspect of it.

[High Brow]

If you had to fuck Sarah Palin or Episiarch, which would you choose?

[Troy]

I don't know what Epi looks like. If he looks like Freddy Mercury, I'd consider going bi-.

[Episiarch]

I certainly don't look like Freddy Mercury. Thank Jeebus.

Warty does, though. Mustache and all.

[Troy]

Can he sing?

[Libertymike]

He's just a poor boy.

Nothing really matters to him.

[calculi renis]

A lot of people have been waiting for this review. Brace yourselves for the tale of how a night of drinking and Bears football led to the worst cut of my life.

I'm the son of a hair stylist. I grew up in a cosmetology school and spent years in salons. I can smell perm solution a mile away. I know how to perform colors, cuts and could probably to extensions if I needed to.

When I left Arizona, I had my first cut from someone other than my mother. I was lucky to find Heather Anderson, who kept me beautiful for years.

Upon moving to Chicago, I linked up with Allison at Strange Beauty Show. Again, fortune smiled upon me, and the streets of Chicago were a little more beautiful with my coiffure prancing along them.

In my entire life, I had never visited a stylist in anything other than a high-end, fashionable salon.

Then came a trip to Lion Head Pub. During the Bears vs Vikings game, a pair of women started working the crowd in racy referee outfits.

Shot girls? Strippers? Referees?

Nope. They were hair stylists promoting Sport Clips, a salon that prides itself on less chit-chat and more TV. They offered me a coupon for the "MVP Treatment": a haircut, steamed towel, shampoo and shoulder massage. For the sake of Yelp and against my better judgment, I vowed to visit.

As a man, I'm a bit offended by the Sport CLips concept. I'm not a 5-year-old. I actually enjoy talking with my stylist and discussing hair, style, salon goings-on and our personal lives. I don't need different rooms of the salon to have cutesy names. I don't need a remote control on my seat.

Sport Clips doesn't take appointments. I'm told that's because men prefer to just walk in. I don't. I like to know my stylist will be ready when I'm ready. I schedule my next cut at the end of each salon visit. I own a day planner.

So I arrive and wait 15 minutes for a stylist. While waiting, I'm left to watch college basketball with a bunch of kids. The plus side is most of the stylists are cute, and they all seem pretty cool, like punk rockers who just needed salon jobs.

I was assigned to Lauren, who is both cute and cool, and we discussed what I wanted done with my hair. Lauren and I got along just fine and had a lot in common, so I got comfortable.

Then she sprayed a few squirts of water on my hair and got going ... with a straight razor ... on the back.

I've been getting razor cuts for years, and I've never had anyone take a razor to the back of my head or start cutting without a shampoo. I decided to let her do her thing. Maybe she knew something I didn't.

While giving me a cut, Lauren started talking about the different Paul Mitchell products she was using. I know what working on commission is like for a stylist. I know how much selling product helps the bank account. But I am an Bumble & Bumble addict, and I refuse to try anything else.

After Lauren did some bizarre thinning and texturing with scissor up top (and didn't use the razor there), she took me into a dark room for my shampoo and steam towel.

As my eyes adjusted and I settled into the shampoo bowl, I noticed a giant Fat Head looming on the wall next to me.

It couldn't be. No way. Blue jersey, orange numbers, pale skin ...

BRIAN URLACHER?

Yes, a life-sized Brian Urlacher in a tackling pose really is going to help me relax. Mmmmmm.

OK, here's the only part I enjoyed (other than meeting some nice stylists): the scalp massage and shampoo weren't the best I've had, but they were decent. The steam towel absolutely kicked nut. I felt refreshed and relaxed and cool. Lauren applied a little pressure to my face, and I was in heaven.

Apparently, so was the guy sitting a few seats away. He started making slight moaning noises. Maybe he was really into Urlacher.

Lauren took me into the main room, which blinded me with bright lights. That would explain why I didn't notice that my hairline was too long, my backside was too bulky and my sideburns were cut too narrow.

"Ready for your massage?"

She should have asked "ready to be jabbed in the back with a vibrator?" Because that's what she did. After about 30 seconds of vibration, I felt violently nauseous.

In the end, I tipped $10 and gave Lauren a free pass to The Bravery. The salon isn't her fault. It's just a horrible business idea: Take everything good about a salon and reverse it.

As I was waiting outside for the bus, I noticed my head was still wet, which quickly turned to ice. Thank goodness for my flask of bourbon and the CTA.

Lauren, if you're reading this, I'm sorry. You're sweet, and I'm sure you do standard cuts very well. I'm just a salon snob, and I probably over-instructed you on your first cut with me.

[Sy]

"As a man, I'm a bit offended by the Sport CLips concept"
Me too. I don't need to be inundated with shitty local/national sports figures and memorabilia while I'm getting my hair cut.

That, and the shitty fucking service. Sorry, but if I wanted my hair 'thinned' or my sideburns cut past my fucking upper earlobe, I would tell you. And don't you fucking dare use clippers, you lazy bitch. Get the big girl scissors out and get snapping.

[Moe19]

I've got a real love/hate relationship with Palin. I can't stand her annoying voice and pretty much everything she says is some thin populist bs. On the good side, she's right at my age and not hard to look at. The capper is that she drives the left batshit insane. I figure she's about as dumb as a bag of hammers, but so is Obama. That fucking guy hasn't spent a single minute in the private sector and it shows in spades. If it is those two retards running in 12, I'd move to Texas and pray for secession.

[Tony]

Even if you hate all of his policies, if you can't tell the difference between Obama's and Palin's intelligence, you probably shouldn't be let in public. This is the absurd consequence of Episiarchian false equivalence worship. You are left unable to tell your ass from your elbow. Speaking of which, what does private sector experience have to do with smarts? The smartest people I know are academics and politicians. To a person, every CEO I know is a pampered ex frat boy moron.

[Jim]

To a person, every CEO I know is a pampered ex frat boy moron.

And yet are usually far richer than your academics. Since most people strive to make themsevles as comfortable as they can get in this life (even if their version of that is playing the lottery), I'll take the money route over being an extremely intelligent, lower middle class schmuck (though the two are not mutually exclusive, your personal (and probably made up since I doubt you know any Fortune 500 CEOs personally) anecdotes aside).

[Tony]

I thought the market was supposed to reward virtues... if not what is it good for? Why worship something that merely rewards cronyism and greed?

[Tony]

I thought the market was supposed to reward virtues... if not what is it good for? Why worship something that merely rewards cronyism and greed?

[Jim]

Who told you the market rewards virtues? What a sack of crap you've been fed.

The market to some extent does reward cronyism, because of the influence of gov't. Get rid of gov't, and you'll get rid of cronyism. Mostly, however, the market rewards people who sell what others are willing to pay for (be it a product, or a certain skill set, etc). There's nothing virtuous or non-virtuous about it. Nor should there be. I suppose you could say that there's virtue in the fact that the transaction benefits both parties.

Robespierre described the Reign of Terror during the French Revolution as ushering in a society of virtue. Didn't work out very well for a lot of heads and their formerly attached bodies.

[Tony]

Get rid of gov't, and you'll get rid of cronyism.

Spoken like exactly the type of market worshiper I was referring to. No cronyism without government? Without government, it's ALL cronyism.

Even if I accept that the market works in the pristine, logical way you claim (and there's no reason to), the underlying assumption is that the market reward virtue. That the outcomes of the free market are the fairest. Don't play stupid and act like the entire justification for the free market is that it elevates innovation and prosperity. Without these things, it's just an empty object of worship and you dismiss additions and alternatives for no good reason.

[Jim]

Well alright, I'm letting go for the evening because I can't even understand the second part of your post.

As for the first part, your pathetically naive assumption that gov't workers (oh sorry...DEMOCRAT gov't workers) are selfless philosopher kings who don't take bribes or alter laws to funnel perks towards certain industries defies belief.

Without gov't there can't be cronyism because there is no overriding law granting special rights to some competitors and denying them to others, backed up by the police. Tell me, in a world with no gov't, how does Haliburton get an automatically renewable, no-bid contact to rebuild central Asia? From whom would they purchase this contract? In a world without gov't, who mandates funds for a bridge to nowhere? Who keeps the WoD going so that prison guards and cops can stay employed (and don't give me any shit about your TEAM being against the WoD; they aren't, and have stated so, and displayed as much by their actions, a number of times)? Who wastes billions for extra engines for fighter jets that the Pentagon doesn't even want, because it might mean losing some jobs in a congressperson's district?

As long as gov't exists, these things will always happen, because human beings are not pristine angels. They want money...and they will use gov't power to get it. That's cronyism. And it is almost wholly the result of the existence of gov't.

[Sy]

"No cronyism without government? Without government, it's ALL cronyism."

CITE.

[Tncm]

Spoken like exactly the type of market worshiper I was referring to.

Are we market worshipers or market fundamentalists, you keep switching around your phraseology.

No cronyism without government? Without government, it's ALL cronyism.

Cronyism would exist, but to a much smaller extent and at a much greater risk to firms and investors. If CEO X hires his cousin Y to be the Vice President of marketing but Y doesn't know the first thing about selling a product then the company will incur losses and Y will most likely get fired or X voted out by the Board of Directors. Crony capitalism, as described in detail by Jim, cannot exist without government.

Even if I accept that the market works in the pristine, logical way you claim (and there's no reason to)

Nobody here is a real expectations theorist. We know that businessmen aren't gods, that people make mistakes. You're making what is known as the Nirvana fallacy, that is, because laissez-faire capitalism isn't perfect than we shouldn't bother with it all. But the unfortunate fact that all rational humans must face is that Eden is no longer of this world, and that no system is perfect; but some are better than others.

the underlying assumption is that the market reward virtue.

Markets don't "reward" anything, individual consumers patronize firms which satisfy their wants and needs in a satisfactory manner. Intelligence is inconsequential if you can't market any of your skills. I could be a prodigy at making horse-and-buggy carriages but I'd probably make, at best, a middle class income.

That the outcomes of the free market are the fairest.

Fair, like virtue, is an undefinable abstract.

Don't play stupid and act like the entire justification for the free market is that it elevates innovation and prosperity.

That's all any argument in economics is based on; which policy, whether fiscal or monetary, will result in the greatest elevation of the human standard of living. Did Keynes say government's should engage in fiscal stimulus because it was "virtuous"? Of course not. He said they should do it because it would result in the highest level of economic growth possible. Did F.A. Hayek rebuke Keynes' arguments by saying that they were "unfair"? No, he did so by explaining how they destroyed wealth and made humanity all the more poorer.

[Tulpa]

The market rewards people or entities which produce things that other people want. That's it. No virtue, no intelligence, no skill required (directly at least).

[Tony]

That's fine. I think libertarians' flaw is in leaping from "wow supply and demand are cool!" to "supply and demand is all that should exist!"

[sevo]

Tony|6.1.11 @ 8:11PM|#
"That's fine. I think libertarians' flaw is in leaping from "wow supply and demand are cool!" to "supply and demand is all that should exist!""

Are you capable of posting an argument which is *not* either:
A) total bullshit
B) a strawman
C) addresses an honest issue?

[Tulpa]

Sorry, you're not gettting off that easy. You just said the market "rewards cronyism and greed". My statement contradicts that, so you can't just say "that's fine".

[Tony]

The market rewards whatever it is set up to reward. In this country that's increasingly "having money already" over "being smart and innovative." You and I both have come to the tautology that the market rewards what it rewards ("no virtue, no intelligence, no skill required"). So what is it good for?

[A Serious Man]

"The market rewards whatever it is set up to reward."

Yes, because of government.

"In this country that's increasingly "having money already" over "being smart and innovative."

Bullshit. Did Bill Gates, Warren Buffet, Mark Zuckerberg, most famous entertainers, and most CEOs all start out silver spoon in hand? Or did they, you know, actually have to utilize their talents to convince people to give them large sums of money? This whole "the rich didn't earn theirs" meme is left-wing bullshit because it's 1. mostly NOT true and 2. none of your damn business if it were true, which again, it's not.

[Tony]

Well there's always going to be a government and it's always going to set the rules for what the market rewards. Get over it and deal with actual policy ideas instead of fairy tale worlds in your imagination.

Bill Gates admits that luck played a huge role in his success. It no doubt played a huge role in the others' you cite too. And it is my damn business because their luck is largely the product of their being born in a modern civilization with a vast bureaucracy of support, including a functioning market that allegedly rewards innovation. None of that would be possible without government, so the distribution of wealth in this country is very much everyone's business.

[Mr. FIFY]

Bill Gates could not turn Microsoft into what it is, if he had to start it today.

But do continue to cheerlead for "bigger government is always better", Tony. It amuses us to no end.

[Mr. FIFY]

Oh, and keep playing that wealth-envy card deck. It is SO refreshing.

[Tncm]

Well there's always going to be a government and it's always going to set the rules for what the market rewards. Get over it and deal with actual policy ideas instead of fairy tale worlds in your imagination.

One of these days I'm going to get around to plotting your arguments. Whenever you're backed into a corner you either disappear from the thread altogether or declare that our goals aren't achievable so we should just shut or mouths and deal with it.

And isn't the point of political philosophy to analyze and work towards the world as it should be as opposed to how it is? Where would we be if Thomas Paine told the revolutionaries, "Get over taxation without representation and deal with actual policy ideas instead of fairy tale republics in your imagination"?

Bill Gates admits that luck played a huge role in his success. It no doubt played a huge role in the others' you cite too

What is luck?

And it is my damn business because their luck is largely the product of their being born in a modern civilization with a vast bureaucracy of support, including a functioning market that allegedly rewards innovation.

You keep talking about the market as if it's some force that arbitrarily picks winners and loses as opposed to the simple acts of buying and selling.

[___]

Serious Man, I get the point you're trying to make, but Bill Gates and Warren Buffet were both born into the upper class and are not the rags-to-riches stories you may imagine them to be (Gates is the son of a wealthy lawyer and Buffet is the son of a Congressman).

And your bit about "none of your damn business if it were true" What ever happened to the concept of a meritocracy? If the market is failing to reward the worthy and penalize the parasites, then it's an indication that the marketplace is being perverted by external forces - and that makes it everyones business.

[Tncm]

That's fine.

Obviously not, since you seem to have such a problem with it not rewarding some abstract like "virtue".

I think libertarians' flaw is in leaping from "wow supply and demand are cool!" to "supply and demand is all that should exist!"

What does this statement even mean? "Supply and demand is all that should exist"? I can't decipher this.

[Jim]

Also, I should point out that using a loaded term like "virtue" is bullshit anyway, because that word is wildly subjective (which is why nobody has ever said the market "rewards" it, as you claim we have). What is virtue to you may be vice to me, and vice versa (no pun intended).

[stephendedalus82]

"Why worship something that merely rewards cronyism and greed?"

Sounds like you're describing Chicago style politics.

[Tman]

The smartest people I know are academics and politicians.

This from the guy who wants to judge who should or should not be "let out in public".

I'm not convinced this isn't a spoof because it's just amazingly wrong.

[Episiarch]

It's a spoof. Why you engage with it is beyond me.

[Pro Libertate]

I briefly thought J sub D was behind it, because it seemed to vanish around the same time. But that was either an mistake or he willed Tony to someone else.

For the record, I'd like a moratorium on statist sockpuppets until the current crisis is over, as determined by me at my sole discretion.

[JW]

Spoof or no, I don't understand either.

[Moe19]

Tony-You are so fucking stupid I'm wouldn't be surprised if you have "breathe in/breath out" tattooed on your wrist. Have you ever asked yourself what "intelligence" even is? I don't want the dictionary definition, either, Dexter. Having memorized a series of irrelevant facts might be your (and sadly most academics') idea of intelligence, but most people would conclude that having some knowledge that is relevant to the situation at hand would constitute intelligence. Obama's tired recitation of the same old leftist "solutions" is pretty much the antithesis of intelligence. For fuck's sake, I could program a computer to do that. Obama (like you apparently) follows the leftist religion with complete disconnection from reality. And FYI: faith != intelligence.

[Tony]

Yep, no one can match the Republicans in their studied application of thoughtfulness to policy ideas.

[sevo]

Tony|6.1.11 @ 7:55PM|#
"Yep, no one can match the Republicans in their studied application of thoughtfulness to policy ideas."

Yep, no one can match shithead here for plain unsupported bullshit.

[sevo]

Tony|6.1.11 @ 7:28PM|#
"Even if you hate all of his policies, if you can't tell the difference between Obama's and Palin's intelligence, you probably shouldn't be let in public."

And he's a *FAR* better liar! Hell, he can't open his yap without lying.

[stephendedalus82]

"The smartest people I know are academics and politicians."

Barf.

"To a person, every CEO I know is a pampered ex frat boy moron."

How many CEOs do you know?

[Somalian Road Corporation]

I'm sure that with your obvious respect of private industry you know plenty of CEOs.

[Seguin]

You're right; Obama's much more stupid. All flowery words and regurgitated half-philosophy, no knowledge, just dull eyes darting around, silently begging for adulation.

BONUS: Shorter Tony: If they agree with me, they r smart. If not, they r dum frat boyz

[JoJo Zeke]

The smartest people I know are academics and politicians.

Well, there's your problem.

[Adonisus]

Palin is a lot more intelligent then she lets on, just like W. She portrays this folksy "Aw Gee-Willikers" persona that's one part naivety and one part hillbilly.

But the truth is that she's FAR more shrewd and calculating than she lets on. She knows full well what she's doing, and she knows how to direct her followers to do her bidding (and how to stir up the left's hatred in such a way that it fires up her base and gets her more publicity in the process).

W was the exact same way. That folksy dopeyness that he used was a shrewd and calculated move to appeal to his base. Despite all the jokes about his apparent stupidity, remember that this guy graduated from both Yale AND Harvard. No matter what you may think about higher education in this country, THAT is one Hell of an accomplishment.

That being said, Palin annoys the crap out of me. That squeaky voice of hers makes my skin crawl every time I hear it.

But she has given the world one good thing....she inspired one hell of a porno!

[Tulpa]

Despite all the jokes about his apparent stupidity, remember that this guy graduated from both Yale AND Harvard. No matter what you may think about higher education in this country, THAT is one Hell of an accomplishment.

Most of the challenge is getting into Yale and Harvard. Once you're there it's really no more difficult than any other top tier university.

And when your dad is an ex-president and Yale alum, getting in isn't hard either.

[.]

Dubya's ol' man wasn't yet an ex-president at the time Dubya was admitted to those schools.

[k2000k]

either way you don't get to be president by being an idiot. Neither Bush or Obama are stupid, bad presidents yes, stupid no.

[sevo]

"Despite all the jokes about his apparent stupidity, remember that this guy graduated from both Yale AND Harvard. No matter what you may think about higher education in this country, THAT is one Hell of an accomplishment."

This might even be true. But why would I want a *smart* lying shitbag for president?

[XM]

According to Wikipedia, there is no penalty for breaking this "flag code", and the SC declared it unconstitutional.

Why does it exist to give MSNBC fodder, when it violates the first amendment and no one can penalize you for breaking it? Huh?

[Tulpa]

If there's no penalty for breaking it, how did anyone have standing to challenge it in SCOTUS?

[l0b0t]

There was, if I'm not mistaken, a penalty that was shot down by SCOTUS just before the 1976 bicentennial (I think it was case where a flag was sewn to the seat of some pants or shorts & some felt sitting on the flag was desecration). So many people wanted to adorn EVERYTHING with the Stars & Stripes that the Flag Code became unworkable and irrelevant.

[Harvard]

[You betcha. And we can only guess that when MSNBC wraps itself in the Red, White, and Blue - and it does - they're doing it for charity.]

When MSNBC wraps itself in the flag the flag is upside down.

[Flaco]

You're all so out of touch to say "the left" is scared of that snowbilly Sarah Palin. That talking point is so 2008. It wasn't true then and it's not true now.

[sevo]

Flaco|6.1.11 @ 8:42PM|#
"You're all so out of touch to say "the left" is scared of that snowbilly Sarah Palin...."

Tell that to MSNBC.

[Pro Libertate]

Whistling past the graveyard. I don't understand Palinphobia. In fact, I don't even think she'll run. But the left clearly and absolutely fears something about her.

[Amakudari]

Daily Kos shows 120,000 results for Sarah Palin in 2011. HuffPo has almost 10 million. And she was in the news plenty for that stupid crosshairs controversy with the Loughner shooting, too (at some points more than Obama, according to Google Trends).

If she were irrelevant she wouldn't have such high disapproval or approval ratings.

[Amakudari]

Also, the only people here to use the term "scared" were you and resident lefty Tony. A better phrase is "infuriated by Palin."

[pp-l]

Palin is precisely the Obama of the right - a glib, superficially attractive empty suit non-entity that has attained prominence solely by virtue of not being a white male.

[SIV]

Instapundit's wife has just the blog for you dickhead.

[Montana]

Run, Sarah run. Sarah Palin was so successful as a governor, she graduated early "Bitter Quitter", she real is a "Dan Quayle" in heels. She clearly loves "dishing it out" but real can't take it because she loves playing the victim card. Poor thing she fail as a VP candidate (her lie that her daughter was engaged was such a farce), her stand-up comic fiasco on the Jay Leno Show, please, her TV show canceled after declining rating, I guess her perpetual run for the White House is the only thing she can look forward to, but since she is a coward she will only throw small minded rocks, poor thing. Since we already had an idiot "W" that caused our current economic debacle, America knows not to trust the GOP fools who flaunt the idiocy.

You know what this current crowd of GOP liars want is to turn the United Sates into China, where only a few giant corporations run things, they own the factories, the apartments, the grocery stores, the gas stations, the newspaper and magazine publications, the radio stations, the television stations and you pay them and they get all the benefits, and if you do not like it go jump off cliff. Well some Chinese workers seeing that as individuals that they cannot progress have done just that by committing suicide. The current crowd of GOP liars want to abolish Medicare from the elderly, they want to abolish a woman's right to choose and have control over her own body, they want to abolish collective bargaining rights, and on top of it all they want to blame the poor, the middle class and the public sector workers for a recession that the GOP created, while their beloved "Fat cats" continue to pay themselves exorbitant salaries, bonuses, fringe benefits. Yes this is the GOP "Radical Right-Wing Social Engineering" that they dream about. The win in New York was the beginning but the next will be Indiana, Iowa, Michigan, Ohio, Wisconsin and later the other states of our nation. So run, Sarah run.

[Amakudari]

Good. Use your aggressive feelings, boy. Let the hate flow through you.

This is the kind of Team Blue rah-rah-rah cheerleader BS that makes a little glad Palin -- a mostly incompetent politician and talker with no chance of higher office -- exists.

[Captain]

Don't let this parrot sit on your shoulder, it'll poke your eye out.

[John Markley]

You might want to wait until you've mastered English grammar and spelling before you start comparing people to Dan Quayle.

[Thomas Friedman]

You know what this current crowd of GOP liars want is to turn the United Sates into China

Finally! They get it!

[k2000k]

I thought they (the GOP) had a secret pact with the reptoids that live in the center of the earth.

[Hogan outlet]

I didn't heard of it before

[Skip]

Do the libtards at MSNBC seriously think we are too dumb to realize that numerous organizations besides devil incarnate Sarah Palin use the flag in commercials?

[best IWC GST / Aquatimer watch]

nice -<a href="http://www.conusreplicas.com/conus-police-replica-942.html">conus Police replica</a>

[Cubs jersey]

Thank you,I learned many from you.

[zentai suit]

Good article, I will share with my friends.

[Emperor Wears No Clothes]

I feel sad for people who feel so disenfranchised that they start to consider a village idiot like Palin to be a legitimate option as president.
Honestly, without referencing the abysmal empty suit that is Obama, what qualifies Palin to hold a job more complicated than sportscaster?

[NotSure]

I wonder what makes people assume that one is smarter/dumber than the other, do they know their IQs, do they know their school records or do they measure it on the number of gaffes ?

[.]

Balls?

[Comment Tater]

It's really quite simple. Palin = $.
When Palin stops paying, she'll drop faster than Britney Spears.

[Res Publica Americana]

I don't like Palin. She's a quasi-neoconesrvative and callow individual. But if it comes to a choice between her and Obama, it's Palin all the way. Nobody in the fucking world could suck as many huge, sweaty balls at his job or morality as Barack Obama.

[Tony]

How is he bad at his job? Pretend for a moment that you agree with Democratic party policies. Are you saying he's had a hard time getting those passed? Or are his policies what you have a problem with, and you're transferring that to job performance?

Sarah Palin with her finger on the button? Really? Are you insane?

[Mr. FIFY]

They BOTH suck, Tony.

You just stand up for Obama because a) he thinks like you do and b) because it's racist to disagree with a black man.*

*Unless it's Herman Cain, for instance.

[L4F]

Martin Bashir is the biggest a-hole known to man. I used to watch him on Nightline and HATED his guts. His bias was always so obvious and he felt completely free to editorialize which is funny since Nightline is supposed to be a NEWS show, not a news and opinion show. In fact, none of the other anchors ever editorialized like Bashir did.

Besides, everybody uses the flag, even Obama wears a flag pin to pretend the patriotism he lacks.

http://libertarians4freedom.blogspot.com/

[WazWoo]

That actually makes a lot of sense dude. Wow.

http://www.privacy-web.no.tc

[Mr. FIFY]

...She also blasted President Barack Obama's economic policies.

"Under the economic policies of the Obama administration, those who have the least are losing the most. And those who have the most are getting even more," CNN quoted her as saying. "The situation in the United States is becoming more dire for average ordinary Americans, and the last thing we need to do is to spend money on death, destruction and war."

[Cynthia] McKinney appeared on state-run TV in Iran earlier in the week.

http://www.ajc.com/news/cnn-mc.....54720.html

JUST as fucking useless as Palin, if not more dangerous.

[Mr. FIFY]

Speaking of hate speech:

http://underprivilegedjournali.....-cain.html

[BallzRhairy]

I don't care if Obama is smart or stupid. What concerns me is that each time he speaks my ass hurts a little more.

@ a prior point: our gov't is also a "market"

[Brian Smith]

I don't remember MSNBC citing the flag code when the Obama logo was plastered across everything that moved from Los Angeles to New York.

[Bucky]

hmmm, how about the pre-president fako seal on Owebama's podium...

[Chicago Cubs jerseys]

Thank you for your share. It's worth to read.

[Cheryl]

Please consider sending all worn American flags to our Stars for our Troops program. Each one that touch the lives of 50 US Veterans or Soldiers even after their flying life is done! http://www.gettysburgflag.com/.....nFlags.php

[nike dunk]

is good

[goallen]

ty rights, etc. seem like a more accurate measure of freedom than democracy.