Reason.tv: What We Saw At The "Our Communities, Our Jobs" Labor Rally

On March 26, 2011, the Our Communities, Our Jobs Rally in Los Angeles brought together the Teamsters, AFL-CIO, SEIU, the United Teachers of Los Angeles, and many, many more to protest a local Ralph's grocery store and to show solidarity with public-sector unions in Wisconsin.

Reason.tv was on hand to document the rally and speak with some of the thousands present. While the protest ostensibly targeted various businesses such as Ralph's and Chase Bank, there was a continuity in the overarching message: Collective bargaining rights are under attack, and they must be saved—both for private-sector and public-sector workers. According to participants in the rally, enemies of organized labor include big business, foreign labor, Republicans, the Koch brothers, and the capitalist system itself. 

Approximately 4 minutes long. Shot and edited by Zach Weissmueller. Interviews by Tim Cavanaugh.

For Reason.tv coverage of other rallies (inlcuding Glenn Beck's Restoring Honor Rally, the 9/12 Freedom Works Rally, and One Nation Working Together Rally), go here.

Visit Reason.tv for downloadable versions of this video. Subscribe to Reason.tv's YouTube channel to receive automatic notification when new material goes live.

Comments

[sage]

I'd like to show up to one of those with a sign that says "Stop the war on taxpayers." Or one that says "Down with the public sector - and up yours."

[The Extispicator]

The ignorance is so thick and pervasive. How do you keep it from gumming up the camera?

[wylie]

Super advanced dielectric coatings. Plus little camera-cleaning gremlins as backup.

[mad libertarian guy]

Don't you mean little minorities who are being oppressed by something they can't grasp?

Non-union, of course.

[wylie]

@1-3 gremlins per gadget, I hardly think they qualify as a minority. Spot on with the oppression and denial of Collective Bargaining Rights.

*polishes monocle*

[sloopyinca]

They had a protest yesterday in my town on a bridge over the freeway. I went back and forth a few times with my kids in the car. On the third pass, my 11 year old son yelled at them to stop stealing his future and gave one the finger.

Good kid.

[JW]

I hope you took him out for ice cream at a non-union shop afterwards.

[Chuck Coker]

A moment that would make any parent proud!

[Virginia]

Obviously the board of health and licensing department paid your son's lemonade stand a visit later that day.

[Fire Tiger]

And today he was suspended from school for bullying his teacher.

[sloopyinca]

Doubtful. His teacher is too shit-scared of me. Besides, the principal loves me because I volunteer my own time to coach the track team.

[sloopyinca]

Besides, the principal loves me because I volunteer my own time to coach the track team.

Oops. Forgot to let you all know why. I love track and so does my son, but if they hadn't gotten a volunteer, they would have paid a teacher a $1500 stipend to coach the team. Fuck that shit.

[Paul Norman]

where's the 'like' button

[Anonymous Coward]

You sir, have won a free internet. Congratulations.

[e]

Your altruism in the service of the Collective is appreciated!

[Almanian]

Your kid isn't a good kid - he's a GREAT KID! Well done, sloopy jr.

[Ken Shultz]

Okay, my nomination for the biggest bobble-head in that piece is the guy who answers Cavanaugh's question...

Cavanaugh: "Right now, where do you think the biggest threat is to labor? Where is it coming from?"

Guy in UPS Uniform: "From big business. Offshore. [Maquiladora] in Mexico. China."

Did I mention the guy is wearing a UPS uniform?! UPS operates in 220 countries around the world...

His job may probably depends on maquila and factories in China! If our government did something significant to discourage trade with Mexico and China? There's a very good chance he'd be among the first to get a pink slip because of it!

[Sudden]

How wrong you are Ken.... if he couldn't drive that nice brown UPS truck, he'd easily be able to find full time work towing the party lion.

[Invisible Finger]

Guy in UPS Uniform: "From big business. Offshore. [Maquiladora] in Mexico. China."

Ah yes, blaming one's problems on the rich AND the poor.

[Shocked]

So he blames his own company. I think UPS meets the definition of big business. Or is UPS excused because its unionized?

[Brian]

Get back to work you worthless parasites!

[Sudden]

What for? Those SEIU drones in California probably get six weeks vacation, an additional two weeks of "sick" time, and holidays for people that are only mentioned in graduate texts for Womyn's and Chicano Studies. They need to find something to go out and spend their hard-earned $90k/annum on, why not protests at a Ralph's?

[sloopyinca]

I don't think the devil "speaka da english."

These videos are way too short, btw. You could have found enough stupid there to fill 8 hours.

[Sudden]

You could have found enough stupid there to fill 8 hours.

The public employees gathered there don't know what 8 hours looks like. It's all 6 hour days for them. The only place they ever spend over 8 hours in is bed.

[MB]

plus 2-3 mandated breaks!!

Oh, and a lunch break, which is separate.

[Realist]

Hey, maybe that fat, fuck, dickwad Michael Moore could make a movie.

[GILMORE]

This sentence for some reason got an unexpected LOL from me...

the Our Communities, Our Jobs Rally in Los Angeles brought together the Teamsters, AFL-CIO, SEIU, the United Teachers of Los Angeles, and many, many more to protest a local Ralph's grocery store

...meaning, it seems from the way its written that the @*#&$ most powerful unions in the country are so fucked up and ineffectual that they can't even picket a grocery store (owned by some guy named Ralph) effectively.

I mean, christ, all they're doing is killing the supermarket industry *faster* (having already put it in a coma). It's like they haven't learned the UAW lesson yet... There's the old law of diminishing returns, fellas. Yes = you can indeed leech yourself out of business. Only so much blood in these suckers before they decide to die on you. (*exception = Government! Well done SEIU, with your long-term planning)

BTW...

On the third pass, my 11 year old son yelled at them to stop stealing his future and gave one the finger.

I take back anything nasty I might have said in the past. You and your kid are #@(*$ rockstars.

Was that imprompteu, btw, or did you set him up with the 'steal his future' line? Either way, golden. The kid is destined for great things.

I think the meta-reading of the title, "Our Communities, Our Jobs" is something like =

""The Collective Deserves Ownership of the Means of Production To Guarantee Livelihood For All""

... or something. I mean, Ok, that sounds pretty, "them dang socialists!!!"-ish, but seriously... "Our Community"? (read: community does not belong to non-union taxpaying members, who are simply freeloaders, vagrants...) , "Our Jobs" (read: "Right To Work" = Right to Be Paid Regardless of Economic Utility...)

I mean, seriously, all my neighbors are Teamsters. Whose aren't?

[Ken Shultz]

The other thing that's really sorry about that is that it's the first new grocery store to open and serve downtown residents in decades!

If I'm not mistaken--it's the only grocery store available downtown. If they shut down that Ralphs, I don't think the local poor would have anywhere else to go for groceries downtown.

It's all wrong-headed.

Oh, and the red-shirts waving the Mexican Flag? ...that never persuaded American swing voters to vote for anything.

Against whatever they were marching for?

Absolutely.

Prop 187 was passed in part because of people in red shirts marching against it and waving Mexican flags.

Seriously, note to organizers: American swing voters generally aren't supportive of causes that march under some other country's flag.

[Ken Shultz]

I mean, if this was a rally to support government workers?

Shouldn't it be hard enough to get American taxpayers to support obscene wages and pension benefits for government employees--without trying to get American taxpayers to support those who prefer to march under Mexico's flag too?

[GSL]

If I'm not mistaken--it's the only grocery store available downtown.

No, you're not mistaken.

And yeah, the Mexican flags are pretty ubiquitous at any march in Los Angeles, regardless of the cause.

[Realist]

What the fuck you guys are always supporting open borders....what's the problem??? You don't think those assholes are legal do you????

[Ken Shultz]

I'm not complaining about open borders.

I'm pointing out the idiocy of people who try to influence American voters by marching under a Mexican flag!

Can you imagine someone holding a rally in Mexico City to influence Mexican voters by marching under an American flag?

I'm not complaining about open borders--I'm making fun of stupid people. Anybody who thinks American swing voters are about to be influenced by people marching under Mexican flags is a stupid person.

[Realist]

"Anybody who thinks American swing voters are about to be influenced by people marching under Mexican flags is a stupid person."
That's what you get with open borders!

[Brandybuck]

The morally superior would rather have the poor be served by run down bodegas with overpriced junk food than have a new shiny corporate grocery store with low prices.

[Tony]

...that are killing the poor with low wages and high profits.

[Brandybuck]

WTF? Is this a Tony spoof? Have you seen what they pay the help at a bodega in downtown LA?

[Otto]

Or the prices?

[John C. Randolph]

Tony, has it occurred to you that the people who work at Ralph's have the prerogative to go work somewhere else?

-jcr

[Martin]

Why do high profits and low wages hurt the poor? The going rate for bagging groceries is low, because it requires no training at all. I suspect that low PRICES and an efficient business model will cause the high profits. High volume, low margins, low cost structure = good business model in the retail grocery business.

[l0b0t]

Also, the only sector I can think of offhand with LOWER profit margins than retail grocery is health insurance. Profits in grocery are around 1.5% -2.5%. Spoilage, waste, and product turnover keep grocers from getting rich, not screwing the bag-boy out of a few pennies per hour.

[JohnD]

Tony, I bet you don't have a clue about what that store pays. And if it wasn't for the store you are trashing, those poor people you are so concerned about probably wouldn't have a job.
You are without a doubt, the most ignorant piece of crap that posts on this forum.

[Spoonman.]

Ralph's is a chain owned by Kroger, btw.

Not that it makes a difference in the silliness of picketing it.

[sloopyinca]

[gets light-headed]

Does that mean I can find the Skyline Chili in the cans and/or dry packets there?

[sevo]

Here:
http://www.amazon.com/Skytime-.....B000B6O4LO

[sloopyinca]

I take it you also drink generic beer?

[Otto]

Let's go get some beers.

[sevo]

Shame on me! I'd a sworn it said skyline, not sky*time*.
Here ya go: Coneys for lunch....
http://www.amazon.com/Skytime-.....B000B6O4LO

[sevo]

DAMMIT! Once more:
http://store.cincyfavorites.co.....=undefined

[Kristen]

I was gonna say - I'm pretty stunned sloopy thinks he needs brick-and-mortar to get Skyline chili. I eat Cocoa Wheats even though they don't sell it on the East Coast. Wonder how that happens?!? 😛

[sloopyinca]

Holy Fuck!!! That's expensive as shit. The packets in the store run about $2.00 when you can find them. I used to get them all the time when I lived in GA and came to Cali with about 30 packets. I ran out just after Christmas and was waiting on a trip back east to find them. Looks like the closest I may get this year is Denver, unless a family member or old friend dies. I'm currently torn on who I want to wish that on.

[Chupacabra]

Holy shit. You eat that stuff?

[SugarFree]

Go suck a goat.

[Realist]

It's called supply and demand...you know all that free market stuff!

[Lord Humungus]

I thought I was the only one left who ate Skyline Chili.

[Timo]

I'm a recent transplant to OH and will happily swap you a Skyline 5 By for an In-n-Out Double Double or a decent Burrito. No cinnamon please....

[Jesse]

I hate his music.

[sloopyinca]

Was that imprompteu, btw, or did you set him up with the 'steal his future' line? Either way, golden. The kid is destined for great things.

All on his own. We take a lot of trips, and the drive time is always filled with either deprogramming sessions (he's stuck in a public school for reasons that enrage me), or classic rock marathons. My 12-y/o daughter, OTOH, would rather text her friends the whole time.

[Chuck Coker]

If I didn't know better, I would think you were me!

Carry on, good sir!

[Trespassers W]

OK, you're my new parenting role model. I take it you have a newsletter?

[mad libertarian guy]

Ooooh. Ooooh.

Mine aren't.

[R C Dean]

The Collective Deserves Ownership of the Means of Production To Guarantee Livelihood For All

Awesome. Make up a sign, and join the ranks for the next protest.

Back when Eeevul Republican Bushitlerchimps were bombing brown people and it was Very Bad and there were actual protests, we ran into one. I wanted to make a "Hands Off the Butcher of Baghdad" sign, but Mrs. Dean pointed out that would be a marriage-limiting gesture, and I desisted.

[JW]

From what you've described of the very awesome Mrs. Dean, I think would let her win every time and not give a damn about it.

I also get the feeling she would hunt you down and kill you, quite literally (and effectively), should you ever lose your mind and stray, even once.

[R C Dean]

let her win every time and not give a damn about it.

That was actually in our marriage vows.

[Spoonman.]

a marriage-limiting gesture

Well phrased, lawyer-man.

[Chuck Coker]

When Proposition 8 (the anti-gay measure in CA) supporters were protesting, my kids made up signs that said "Spread the Hate, Yes on 8!" and went to join the protest. On their own, without my encouragement. I am so proud of them it brings a tear to my eye just reminiscing...

[sloopyinca]

I voted Yes on Prop 8 because I knew the state wouldn't really do much in the way of defending it, and I thought the courts were the correct venue to settle the matter.

[Rachel Madcow]

Carpet munchers against the Kochs and cocks

[Old Mexican]

According to participants in the rally, enemies of organized labor include big business, foreign labor, Republicans, the Koch brothers, and the capitalist system itself.

Xenophobes!

[hmm]

It's those fucking Mexican Koch supporting Republican capitalists...

[sloopyinca]

It's those fucking Sino- Mexican Koch supporting Republican capitalists...

FIFY

[Old Mexican]

Those are surely very nicely-made signs. Were they made in a unionized printing house? I have to wonder...

[Free Health Care]

Astroturfing is hard labor. Unions make sure that astroturfer's voices are heard.

[IBA forever!]

The International Brotherhood of Astroturfers stands ready to serve all your astroturfing needs!

[Realist]

"Were they made in a unionized printing house? I have to wonder..."
No way, there were no misspelled words and the quality looked good.

[SugarFree]

You will never forget that steak sandwich, will you

And when it closes down they can squawk about "urban food deserts."

[Old Mexican]

[...] to protest a local Ralph's grocery store[...]

... of all things.

[Old Mexican]

"Collective bargaining rights are under attack, and they must be saved?both for private-sector and public-sector workers."

"The owl of Minerva flies only at dusk." - Hegel.

That means: It's too late, buds. You're grasping at straws.

[GSL]

FYI, the stupid was flying in northern California as well. Which shouldn't really surprise anyone.

[Chupacabra]

It's all stupid up here.

[JW]

Tom Morello, guitarist for the band Rage Against the Machine, performed.

Is it wrong for me to hope that Morello gets run over by a UPS truck one day?

[hmm]

You know your political bullshit is old when your own band gets sick of it.

[GILMORE]

Isnt FedEx the more "corporatey" version?

I would like to hear other potential variations of "ironic pro-unionista death scenarios"

I think the mexican flag waving is sort of funny; I don't know what Lou Dobbs is thinking right now, but whatever it is, it is probably causing him a great deal of pain, and that's always a good thing.

[SugarFree]

what Lou Dobbs is thinking right now

"Sloth love Chunk!"

[sloopyinca]

Is the sequel on ice again? Last I heard, there was a fight over the script.

[Followed By]

"Baby Ruuuuth!"

[Sony Records]

we just want to make it clear that we will support Zach in whatever future musical endeavors he wishes to explore.

[Timon19]

When I listen to Rage, I just selectively listen to the lyrics such that it could conceivably be construed as a very individualist song. It comforts me.

[Drax the Destroyer]

You've got to love this horseshit. If it wasn't for foreign labor and evil (probably) non-unionized private corporations, Morello would never have all those whacky stomp-boxes he uses to make himself sound "edgy" and like he's "pushing the envelope of rock guitar" when he is only playing simple shit the likes of Dio, Judas Priest, Iron Maiden, and co would laugh at, while Dream Theater and Symphony X laugh at everyone (from a technical proficiency standpoint). Now, if Morello actually has a PHD in electrical/audio engineering that I don't know about, and access to all kinds of manufacturing equipment...then maybe his success on even a minor level can't be attributed to the existence of evil corporations. Back in the Milky Way, he's full of hypocritic shit, and most rage/audioslave songs suck.

[Zeb]

I think it is pretty funny that union folk list big business as one of the enemies of labor. I mean, who but "big business" (or government) can afford to hire a union? Do they think that mom and pop are going to start hiring union labor?

[mad libertarian guy]

I've always found that funny too.

"The Big Business that has given me a job and allowed me to support myself and my family is fucking evil! Damn those job givers!!"

[Realist]

"The Big Business that has given me a job and allowed me to support myself and my family WAY BEYOND MY MENTAL ABILITY is fucking evil! Damn those job givers!!"

[Chinny Chin Chin]

Nicely done, Reason.tv production team.

And done with a refreshing lack of snark, given the oh-so-snarkable situation.

[Sudden]

There was no need to snark or editorialize. Sometimes stupidity reveals itself with such ease.

[Zeb]

I get real sick of hearing "collective bargaining rights" repeated over and over again as if anyone's rights are actually affected here. Guess what? Everyone still has teh absolute right to collectively bargain. With anyone willing to bargain with them. Laws requiring companies or governments to bargain with unions grant privileges to organized labor, not rights.

[Old Mexican]

Re: Zeb,

I get real sick of hearing "collective bargaining rights" repeated over and over again as if anyone's rights are actually affected here.

"Collective bargaining rights" is actually an oxymoron, since rights are not collective. Only individuals are endowed with rights by virtue of their humanity: having cognitive and reasoning abilities and the capacity to purposefully act. Notice that I said abilities and capacity: a human does not have to fully exercise these abilities all the time in order to have rights.

Second, "collective bargaining" is not a right in itself but an entitlement given by government, through infringement of the employer's right to freely associate with whomever they so please. An employer is MADE to engage in bargaining with a union whether the employer wants it or not, through various legislated impositions and threats.

[Tim Cavanaugh]

Second, "collective bargaining" is not a right in itself but an entitlement given by government

So is a monopoly on intellectual property. Copyright is named in the constitution. I don't think the constitution allows (or for that matter prevents) a state-created monopoly on a business negotiation. And they did have guilds back then, so they knew about the concept.

That doesn't matter as long as nobody is challenging Chief Justice Charles E. Hughes' ruling in NLRB v. J&L: "Although activities may be intrastate in character when separately considered, if they have such a close and substantial relation to interstate commerce that their control is essential or appropriate to protect that commerce from burdens and obstructions, Congress cannot be denied the power to exercise that control."

Somebody needs to go after the language of "close and substantial relation" and "burdens and obstructions" ? at least by arguing that you have to prove direct damages in order to claim a "burden and obstruction."

[Realist]

So it's OK for anybody to copy any of the crap in your rag and resell it....if they can?

[Paul]

Are they harming you in any manner different from someone undercutting your lemonade stand with cheaper lemonade? Are they falsely claiming authorship to their customers?

[Tim Cavanaugh]

Yes, it is OK. But if it weren't, at least I'd be able to point to the original law of our land, rather than a breadcrumb path of court decisions, to defend my claim.

[Realist]

You're safe no one buys your magazine when you publish it let alone a second party.

[Martin]

That's not because there's anything intrinsically unworthy about Reason. It speaks more to the lack of independent thought in the wider population. Because it is true that people who actually analyze the spectrum of their views would tend to find themselves on the libertarian side frequently.

[Ken Shultz]

I usually just send cash.

...and thanks for reminding me!

Now, where's that donate button?

There we go! I just made a $25 donation to Reason on behalf of "The Realist Fund".

Let's see how much more money Realist can raise for Reason today!

[Paul]

Hah shit? There's a donate button somewhere? I don't even want to deal with the logistics of paper.

[Paul]

Wait... Are these reason folks statist government monopolist supporters? Maybe I should give my money to the EFF. Does the EFF hate the free market? Maybe I should make a scale.

[kevin m]

Back in '95 my brothers and I were doing a land clearing job and some union SOB had the nerve to tell me I couldn't operate MY OWN tractor! An argument ensued where he threatened me and it was revealed that he was recently out of prison for MURDER. Well I told him "F you, I just got out for drug possesion myself and if I kill your ass I will be doing the people of this state a service" [7 yrs for killing someone what a joke] I imagine it was him or his goons that put the sand in the oil of our wood chipper. What a bunch of parasite scumbags indeed!

[Bingo]

The union mentality that they have a right to a job and the subsequent belief that anyone not hiring union is stealing from them is mind-boggling.

[Barack Obama]

Fat, middle-aged hags think they a right to a job.

[Chris in NYC]

I think it is analogous to a bullshit argument I hear a lot here in NYC. I go to Eugene Lang, which is the undergraduate part of the New School, which is a very leftist university. Liberals and Marxists have a lot of unexamined assumptions, but the one that really gets me is this; defunding as censorship. These folks believe that artists have a right to government support and that the removal of unearned subsidies is equivalent to censorship. So years ago, long before I moved here, there was a controversy where Rudy Giuliani defunded (or tried to defund) the Brooklyn Museum because they presented a representation of the Virgin Mary covered in cow dung. This was reasonable, as religious folks should not be forced to support art that literally shits all over their beliefs. (I'm atheist, by the way.) And the only way that leftists describe this is is "censorship." No. Censorship would be shutting down the museum and dropping the offending art off the Verrazano Bridge, then banning the artist from ever making art again. Ceasing to pay someone is not censorship.

[Alan]

One good thing about living in the South. The general assumption is that Unionized workers are the people stealing from the public. And the general assumption is correct.

[GILMORE]

You got this whole scenario from a Jim Thompson novel, didn't you.

Or do you actually live in Texas?

[sloopyinca]

Don't people remember the truckers strike (late 70's or early 80's)? Truckers were dropping cinder blocks on independent's from overpasses, if my memory serves me correctly.

[Doktor Kapitalism]

If that means what I think it means, round the up and put them in jail for destruction of property.

It really peeved me when my history book would talk about destruction of property (in some women's demostrations way back when) and the threat thereof during sitdown strikes in the '30s. It never acknowledged that these people were destroying others' property and just GETTING AWAY WITH IT.

To illustrate a sitdown strike:

I offer to pay you if you clean my house. You demand more $$$. I refuse, and you refuse to leave. If I force you to leave my property, you threaten to burn down my house. Are your actions justifiable? If you work a part of a team of cleaners, who were hired separately, but are now organizing, is now justifiable?

No and no, respectively.

[Tony]

There's a difference between a worker and a servant. The union-busters want to erase that difference. And the freedom-lovers here continue their crusade to exclude as many people as possible from actually having freedom.

[Ken Shultz]

Having more freedom means shutting down the only grocery store in downtown Los Angeles?

[sage]

Is this a spoof?

[Realist]

Tony is always a spoof!

[Trespassers W]

My vacuousometer just broke. Thanks a lot, jerk.

[Barack Obama]

Let me be clear; Tony is a POO-FLINGING MONKEY.

[Hazel Meade]

Progressives think everyone should be an employee. Preferrably of a state-owned monopoly.

Libertarians think everyone should work for themselves.

That's the real difference.

[Ken Shultz]

Nice one!

Mind if I use that?

[Hazel Meade]

Yes, please do.

[Tony]

Progressives think human well-being should be the goal of policy and not, like libertarians, that the supposed demands of the free market gods should be the end of policy, and screw people.

[sevo]

Tony|4.5.11 @ 4:20PM|#
"Progressives think..."

No, they don't. As is obvious from your post.

[LB]

Indeed. If you extract all the eloquent fluff from a progressive's statement, like Tony's, it basically goes: "us good. you bad." Progressives are cavemen with good vocabularies. (minus the spear hunting skills)

[Hazel Meade]

The "free market gods", are nothing more than the decisions of millions other people.

Please admit that controlling the market means controlling PEOPLE. Once you get that off your chest maybe we can think more clearly about the relationship between human well being and human freedom.

[MB]

"Progressives think human well-being should be the goal of policy"

well, yes, true, and that's the problem.

they THINK that's the goal of the policy, and how they sell it, but too often isn't NOT the REAL goal...

[Drax the Destroyer]

And in the end, goals don't matter as much as consequences. Road to hell and all that...

[wylie]

There's a difference between a tax-payer and a servant. The unions want to erase that difference. And the statists/spoofers here continue their crusade to spout as much moronic bullshit as possible.

[PIRS]

". . . from actually having freedom."

Tony, could you please tell me what your definition of freedom is.

[JW]

Tony, could you please tell me what your definition of freedom is.

A high marginal tax rate.

[Tony]

The ability to act unimpeded. Libertarians' definition of freedom seems to be exclusively "paying low or no taxes."

[Hazel Meade]

Unimpeded by what? Lack of cooperation from others?

Should other people be compelled to help you act? Is that freedom Tony?

[Tony]

Yes. Otherwise freedom only actually exists for people with private means to act.

Freedom from foreign invasion requires the active participation of public servants known as soldiers and every taxpayer. Most people find the tradeoff to be a net positive for freedom.

[sloopyinca]

So, I take it you are against closed-shops?

[Tony]

I think free employers and employees should be able to make whatever contracts they choose to negotiate between them.

[prolefeed]

So you are in favor of scrapping all the laws on the books interfering with that right of employers and employees to negotiate individual contracts if they so choose, and interfering with an employer's ability to ignore a labor union's demands and refuse to bargain with them and fire them and hire replacements?

[Tony]

What laws? No employer is forced to agree to any particular terms with employees unionized or otherwise. They simply cannot use force or coercion to prevent employees from exercising their constitutional right to unionize.

[John C. Randolph]

No employer is forced to agree to any particular terms with employees unionized or otherwise.

Tony, the depths of your ignorance are truly staggering. Ever heard of the Wagner act?

-jcr

[Tony]

Yes. It prevents employers from engaging in coercive acts to prevent workers from exercising their constitutional right to free assembly.

[prolefeed]

Freedom from foreign invasion requires the active participation of public servants known as soldiers and every taxpayer.

So the Revolutionary War wasn't fought in part by private militias not supported by compulsory taxation?

In your mind, it is impossible for a foreign army to be repelled by anything other than government soldiers paid via taxes?

Talk about a failure of imagination, and a failure to study actual history.

[Tony]

I don't need to entertain such flights of fancy because I don't have a compulsive need to find ways to do things without government that government can handle perfectly well.

[roystgnr]

The government handles military action perfectly well? REALLY? Anyone who thinks we "need" to improve that situation must have a compulsion?

[John C. Randolph]

What you have is a compulsive need to invent asinine rationalizations for robbing your neighbors.

-jcr

[JB]

What's Tony's address again?

I wouldn't mind sending some government soldiers to use their rifle butts to cave in his head perfectly well.

[prolefeed]

The ability to act unimpeded.

So you support the ability of a person running a business to decide who to hire, and how much to pay them, unimpeded? Or for the ability of a worker who hates unions to work for an employer, unimpeded by laws forcing them to join unions they despise?

[Tony]

What law forces people to join unions?

You have it backwards. Right-to-work laws prohibit employers and employees from coming to certain types of arrangements. How unions are structured is dependent on contract between employer and employee. Except when government prevents them from making certain arrangements. Such as with right-to-work laws.

[JW]

Right-to-work laws prohibit employers and employees from coming to certain types of arrangements.

Which, as everyone knows, is the epitome of freedom.

[John C. Randolph]

What law forces people to join unions?

Good question. As it happens, it's not law, it's thuggery that forces people to join unions. Thanks for asking.

-jcr

[Tony]

But it's freedom that makes workers accept whatever the managers decide they should pay.

[sevo]

Tony|4.5.11 @ 10:04PM|#
"But it's freedom that makes workers accept whatever the managers decide they should pay."

No, you stupid shit. Workers can take an offer or look elsewhere.
Asshole.

[Tony]

And nothing compels anyone to work for a union business. In fact, they have more than 90% of the private sector to choose from if they don't want to be in a union. See how this works?

[sevo]

Tony|4.5.11 @ 10:32PM|#
"And nothing compels anyone to work for a union business. In fact, they have more than 90% of the private sector to choose from if they don't want to be in a union. See how this works?"

Yes, I see that clearly. So your point is the direct opposite of the one you made just a it earlier:
"But it's freedom that makes workers accept whatever the managers decide they should pay."?
How often can you contradict yourself before you get dizzy?

[sevo]

Tony|4.5.11 @ 10:04PM|#
"But it's freedom that makes workers accept whatever the managers decide they should pay."

But let me also mention that shitbags with worthless degrees *still* aren't going to make any real money.
You might look up 'market clearing price'; I'd pay you, oh, $5/hour to see if you could learn anything in the shipping department, but no one else is likely to pay a whole lot more.
So let's say that 'workers' will have to accept the value placed on their skills pretty much everywhere; the internet is a wonder.

[Realist]

Ooooh fuck YES!!!!

[Joshua Corning]

Libertarians' definition of freedom seems to be exclusively "paying low or no taxes."

I was wondering why Reason never did any articles on ending the drug war, stopping the excesses of the war on terror and stopping police abuse of power.

I guess its because libertarians only think freedom is freedom from taxes.

[sevo]

Tony|4.5.11 @ 2:24PM|#
"There's a difference between a worker and a servant...."

Yes, and it's a shame you're too fucking ignorant to know what it is.

[paloma]

Okay, what's the difference? Are teachers not there to serve the students? Or as "workers", is everyone else supposed to serve THEM?

[Tony]

Workers have rights. That's the difference.

[sevo]

Tony|4.5.11 @ 4:18PM|#
"Workers have rights. That's the difference."

Yes, and?

[Tony]

And Republicans and their libertarian enablers want to restrict those rights as much as possible. In the name of freedom.

[Hazel Meade]

No, we just think that everyone has exactly the same rights, regardless of whether their socioeconomic status is.
We think of rights as extensions of the concept of "equal justice under law", not as some sort of social engineering tool that varies according to the day of the week.

[Tony]

The problem is, in a society with a high income gap, inevitably some will be more equal than others. That goes for the criminal justice system as much as anything.

[JW]

"Some workers are more equal than others."

[sevo]

Tony|4.5.11 @ 4:59PM|#
"The problem is, in a society with a high income gap, inevitably some will be more equal than others. That goes for the criminal justice system as much as anything."

Yeah, and the workers' paradises don't have that problem, right, asshole?

[sevo]

Tony|4.5.11 @ 4:30PM|#
"And Republicans and their libertarian enablers want to restrict those rights as much as possible. In the name of freedom."

STUPID lying sack of shit.

[Hazel Meade]

Only "workers"?

How about self-employed people? How about people who oen the property they are putting up as capital?

How about we just say that EVERYONE has rights? The SAME rights. EXACTLY the same rights. Rights that are uniform without regard to race, sex, sexual orientation AND occupation, AND whether one is an "employee" or an "employer" or how much money you have, or how much property you own, or whether your family is a member of the proletariat or the boergeois classes.

[Tony]

Because how much money have is an extremely important determiner of how much you are at liberty to do in this life.

[sevo]

Tony|4.5.11 @ 4:56PM|#
"Because how much money have is an extremely important determiner of how much you are at liberty to do in this life."

You're a lying sack of shit. The bum on the corner has more 'freedom' than I do: Show up at work? Hell no!

[Juice]

So public employees are not public servants? Should we tell them to stop calling themselves that?

[Chupacabra]

C- for that spoof.

[Martin]

Your position is fucking absurd. Freedom and collectivism are polar opposites. Ask any Cuban.

[2+2=5]

Yes! Because the union janitor has the right to be compensated at the same rate as the college educated analyst! And at three times the rate as the private sector tax payer. It all makes sense now!

[Tony]

So who says a CEO has the right to be compensated 300 times that of a worker?

[KDN]

So the CEO isn't actually working for his compensation?

[Tony]

Is he working 300 times harder than the worker?

Or does the pay scheme have nothing to do with free market forces and everything to do with being engineered for a certain outcome?

[sloopyinca]

Is he working 300 times harder than the worker?

Maybe. Maybe not. But what the fuck does that matter? By this twisted bit of logic, the well-diggers in the oil fields deserve to be compensated at least three times as much as the owner who hired them (and bought the $400,000 excavator they are running, the $3,000,000 derrick the trench is going to and the $500,000 worth of pipe laid to move the oil), all because they sit in an air-conditioned office all day and chomp on cigars.

You are an absolute fucking moron.

[Shocked]

Maybe the CEO's decisions are 300 times riskier to the company than that of the janitor.

[KDN]

Since when has how hard you work have anything to do with how much you're paid? I was working 5 times as hard cleaning construction sites for my old man's company than desk jockeying for the phone company but made twice the money at the latter. The difference is that there wasn't nearly the people at the latter qualified to perform the job at equal quality.

The rate of pay has many parts to it, but at its simplest it's the market rate of the job itself plus your individual value over a replacement worker (and the Unions feel that the second value is directly proportional to your seniority, which anyone that's ever had a job knows is bogus). Nothing is engineered for a certain outcome. You're delusional if you think the difference between a good CEO and a poor one is comparable to the difference between a great janitor and a near useless one. The WSJ reviewed a book today that illustrates this point in vivid detail:

http://online.wsj.com/article/.....49884.html

[Doktor Kapitalism]

The question is also one of mental effort.

[Mensan]

Is he working 300 times harder than the worker?

Perhaps he or she is from the point of view of the board members who hire her or him. If it's a private sector company, then how the hell is it any of your business? The pay is dictated by market forces. The supply of competent CEOs is relatively low, so the price is high. Fucking supply and demand; how does it work?

[Ray Pew]

Is he working 300 times harder than the worker?

What makes you assume that payment is directly correlated to effort? The labor theory of value has been surpassed by the superior theory of marginal utility.

Or does the pay scheme have nothing to do with free market forces and everything to do with being engineered for a certain outcome?

Why would this "certain outcome" be incompatable with a free market? While such a payment is not certain, the ranges are relatively stable and are due to market forces.

[sevo]

Tony|4.5.11 @ 5:07PM|#
"Or does the pay scheme have nothing to do with free market forces..."

You ignorant asshole! You wouldn't recognize 'market forces' if they sat on your face!
What an ignoramus!

[Martin]

Engineered by whom, you clown?

[JW]

So who says a CEO has the right to be compensated 300 times that of a worker?

I'm pretty sure it's the Board of that company. They can pay him/her 5,000 times the salary as far as I'm concerned, as long they think they're getting their money's worth. Not my problem in either scenario.

Buy some stock in the company and show up at the shareholder meetings to complain about C-level compensation, or STFU.

[sevo]

Tony|4.5.11 @ 4:57PM|#
"So who says a CEO has the right to be compensated 300 times that of a worker?"

Poor, poor Tony! All those years getting your Lit Crit degree and $10/hr is all they pay!
Poor, poor Tony.

[Somalian Road Corporation]

The people freely choosing to pay him who don't have guns to their heads forcing them to do it?

[John C. Randolph]

who says a CEO has the right to be compensated 300 times that of a worker?

I do, you snivelling little shithead.

I'm a shareholder of the company with the second-highest market cap in the world, and I'd be fine with paying Steve Jobs ten billion dollars a year. (Which, for the record, is considerably more than three hundred times what I got as an Apple engineer.)

-jcr

[Ken Shultz]

"So who says a CEO has the right to be compensated 300 times that of a worker?"

The people who pay him.

[Ken Shultz]

"So who says a CEO has the right to be compensated 300 times that of a worker?"

Who says you should get to veto what other people decide to do with their money?

[Red Rocks Rockin]

The CEO can pay himself whatever he wants. If the worker had any brains or ambition, he'd be the CEO instead of a dust-sweeping loser.

[The Ingenious Hidalgo]

Nobody says a CEO has the right to be compensated 300 times that of a worker - the people who pay the CEO can pay him whatever they damn well choose.

[John C. Randolph]

To be fair, I've met plenty of college educated analysts who weren't as useful as anybody pushing a mop.

-jcr

[Joshua Corning]

Yes! Because the union janitor has the right to be compensated at the same rate as the college educated analyst!

Why does it matter?

If there is a large demand for janitors and a low demand for analysts i do not see a problem with this.

People with degrees in art history make less then high school educated janitors.

I have no problem with that.

[Hazel Meade]

"Labor has never really been a left or right issue ..."

Gah. Why didn't you put that at the begin ning and a save me the trouble of watching the whole video.

Between the regurgitated marxism and the sheer cluelessness, it's a non-stop barrage or ignorance.

[Ol' Liberal]

... since I would hate to get in the way of an intelligent discussion covered fairly, I will simply say that, with some notable exceptions, Reason is able to cover protests without exposing their overwhelming butthurt at the idea that, somewhere, someone possibly disagrees with them.

[UFPW]

We here at the United Federation of Protest Workers have filed a complaint with the state labor board. The use of not only non-unionized protesters but free protesters is a clear attack on our jobs. Over the past few years our right to earn a living has been under constant assault, and this latest incident just shows the length to which these people will go. The importing of labor from Mexico to play the part of the devil and having their lesbian protesters use non-OSHA approved safety signs proves what we have been saying for years. They are driven not by concern for the safety and well being of their protesters but by a desire to avoid paying reasonable wages and spending the money to provide a safe protesting environment.

[Lepus]

Goddammit! Look, just because we're bereaved, that doesn't make us saps!

[Realist]

All those god damn idiots in one place...just amazing....why....why the IQ must have almost gone double digit!
If those fucking idiots didn' have a union, and were paid what they are worth they would starve to death!

[Ballchinian]

I stand in awe of Tony's claim that the NRLA is not an imposition on the rights of employers to contract freely for labor.

[Doc S.]

Unions make me sad 🙁

[John C. Randolph]

Never shopped at Ralph's before, but if the union mobs don't like them, I'll check them out.

-jcr

[Somalian Road Corporation]

I wish Tony would go volunteer in a homeless shelter or somesuch rather than wasting hundreds upon hundreds of hours writing repeatedly refuted drivel here. All parties would benefit.

Sure, he wouldn't get to beat the wealth envy/death to the kulak hoarder-wreckers drum on a global forum, but... oh, yeah.

[Babs]

What I find truly amazing about these protesters is their inablity to understand who is paying for their benefits.
Is it some phantom someone somewhere with an unlimited pocketbook or, is it their neighbor who has turned their heat down to 53 and is walking around inside in winter coats because they have to pay the gov't pensions through their taxes?

[Doktor Kapitalism]

Sounds a little exaggerated, but the principle is correct.

[Chaos Punk]

Smash Capitalism! Worker's Rights! Animal Liberation! Peace! Equality! Justice!

Burn down the banks! Burn down the Corporations!

[bassboat]

Brilliant. Now where are you going to get your food?

[Martin]

Public sector unions exist to safeguard the 'right' of overpaid lazy bums (that couldn't cut it in the private sector) to a slice of your paycheck.

Tony, what do you do for a living?

[Chaos Punk]

Is he working 300 times harder than the worker?

Tony,

I can definitely relate to you with this question. I started out humping freight, no skills, and no education. I worked my way up in a company and became supervisor. I get a lot of sentiments just like yours, "Why do the upstairs assholes get so much more than we do when we do all the work?".

I used to actually agree with them until I got into management myself. I know now that there is way more to the job than workers give credit for.

I am compensated about $7/hr more than the average worker, which isn't as much as the CEO, but nonetheless the guys do way more physical work than I do.

What they do is pretty much stress free other than some rough days on the floor. There's a lot of freedom and minimal contact with the other supervisors.

I have to enforce company policy, standard operating procedures, and make sure 50+ guys are hitting the productivity we all need to keep the company going.

My boss, who does even less physical work, has even more to deal with than I do and makes about 3 times more than me. It doesn't bother me because I understand the levels of dedication it takes to do that type of work.

don't feel too bad about your shitty $10/hr labor job.. it's better than you think.

[sevo]

"My boss, who does even less physical work, has even more to deal with than I do and makes about 3 times more than me. It doesn't bother me because I understand the levels of dedication it takes to do that type of work.
don't feel too bad about your shitty $10/hr labor job.. it's better than you think."

What Tony is too ignorant to understand is this:
My customers don't care if I have enough money to eat dinner tonight; that's *my* problem. My customers pay the absolute minimum they can to get the products and support services my company offers in the hopes that the customers can afford dinner tonight.
My company succeeds or fails by offering those values to the customers; no more, no less.
Similarly, I pay not one penny more to direct employees or vendors than it takes to satisfy my customers and/or increase the business.
The employee or vendor who says 'I can save a couple of bucks here' or 'we can offer better support this way' shares in the rewards, simply because it is in *my* best interest to do so, and of course stupid shits like Tony miss that 'invisible hand' entirely, right, asshole?
Whiners like Tony either work for the government, or at a level where no one cares if they can contribute. Or, they get fired and whine, right, asshole?

[Joshua Corning]

More videos with Tim on the streets with the people.

That is all.

[Brett]

Lesbians fo Koch blocking. Because, those evil Koch brothers support gay rights.

[Dan]

Absolute crap (the things these protesters stand for; NOT the video.)

[bassboat]

I'll never understand why the union guys say they should share in the profits if they agree to work by the hour. If they would work for free when there were losses then you might have an argument. We need to do away with all unions, public and private.

[pigsfromagun]

As a self-employed independent contractor, these people have inspired me to organize against my own exploitation of my labor.

Some days, I'm lucky if I give myself a 30-minute lunch break. In the past, I've formulated my rates to account for paying myself and covering costs, all within the confines of competitive market pricing. It's never occurred to me before that I could force myself to give myself more breaks, meaning slowing down productivity, while also paying myself more, which means raising my rates.

Now I know that I just need to harness some political power to force my clients to hire me, and to remove that onerous burden of having to compete with other contractors who recklessly refuse to unionize themselves against themselves.

Logic is like the Constitution, my friends - "living", malleable, and needing to be freed from its unjust adherence to Natural Law.

[???? ??????]

thank u

[aisile]

ai sile

[xiingguan]

This movie has some nike sb skunk dunks for sale of the same flaws I saw in another attempt at a faithful adaptation of a work of fantastic literature long thought unfilmable, Zach Snyder's 2009 version of Watchmen...That is, it kobe 7 for sale struck me as a series of filmed recreations of scenes from the famous novel