Reason Morning Links: Tea Party Candidates Fight Boehner, Webb Retires, Condoms for Porn

• Tea Party-backed candidates giving House GOP leadership fits.
• Egypt protests spread, block access to Parliament.
• Giffords continues to improve, now eating three meals per day.
• L.A. may require condom use in the porn industry.
• Sen. Jim Webb (D-Va.) announces retirement.
• Human rights groups say Egyptian military detaining, torturing protesters.
• Rep. Chris Lee (R-NY) resigns after Gawker publishes shirtless photos he sent to women he met on Craigslist.

Comments

[affenkopf]

Security consultancies against wikileaks (including attacks against journalists)

[Mike M.]

Part of me feels a little sorry for Webb, even though he voted for the Obamacare bill.

He's one of the few remotely sane democrats left in all of Congress, and he's already leaving because he realizes his party is a bunch of worthless, hopeless sorry motherfuckers.

[rather]

It's between Webb and his wife-maybe she wanted him to quit and avoid the 'stand by your man' news conference

[Kaiser]

Methinks you are confusing Chris Lee and Jim Webb. To my knowledge, Jim Webb has never been involved in any sort of sex scandal.

[rather]

Is he a politician? Just a matter of time 😉

[rather]

besides he's a man; you know he did some woman wrong-hang him

[zoltan]

Go back to Jezebel.

[Rather]

Zoltan, you are adding fuel to the woman can't get along meme. I'm curious about WTF have I ever done not to get along with you?

[John]

His reputation in the Pentegon was always that of a total rat bastard and not in a good way. He was known to do shit like resign from being Sec of the Navy without telling his staff or assistants beforehand thus leaving them hanging without a job and no time to look for a new one. His reputation on a personal level, at least among the little people was always that of a complete jackass

[Sovereign Immunity]

Hmmm, he sounds like the Kanye West of politics.

[vladimir putin]

he's my kind of guy

[affenkopf]

Security consultancies against wikileaks (including attacks against journalists)

direct link to the leak

[Virginia]

arstechnica has the latest on the HBGary vs Anonymous shoving match... and its hilariously awesome.

The situation got so bad for the security company that HBGary, the company which partially owns HBGary Federal, sent its president Penny Leavy into the Anonymous IRC chat rooms to swim with the sharks?and to beg them to leave her company alone.

[Virginia]

Gotta post the underpants gnome snippet:

His programmer had doubts, saying that the scraping and linking work he was doing was of limited value and had no commercial prospects. As he wrote in an e-mail:

Step 1 : Gather all the data

Step 2 : ???

Step 3 : Profit

But Barr was confident. "I will sell it," he wrote.

[generic Brand]

This guy's got a future legislatin'!

Step 1: Pass laws
Step 2: ???
Step 3: Order? If not, repeat Step 1.

[Brett L]

In which Karl Rove posits that anything that passes the Senate by reconiliation can be repealed by the same device.

It would be a more interesting article if it didn't constantly harp on the theme "elect more Repbulicans in 2012".

[Corduroy]

Karl Rove is a partisan dipshit who only cares about obtaining and retaining power. He's only worth listening to in the same sense that sports commentators are occasionally interesting.

[Bee Tagger]

sports commentators are occasionally interesting.

citation needed.

[Brett L]

Thunderdome for white blood cells

"In order to create the blood duel, High gets a phlebotomist to take blood samples from two different people. She then separates the white blood cells from the rest of the blood and stains them using different colours. They are then placed in a Petri dish and their interactions are filmed under a microscope using time-lapse microscopy. The cellular 'winner' of each round will go onto fight another participant."

[Michael Vick]

I'm in!

[rather]

Don't forget the 'key to the city'-It opens the door to the pound and you can come back to Dallas and pick up puppies!

[Cadaver Daddy]

You so funny, Kitten.

[generic Brand]

I see you left out the part that turns "Blood Wars" from cool science to stupid artsy statement:

The aim is to show the tension between art and science and the cultural, economic and ethical implications of biosciences today.

[Brett L]

Eh. Everyone can't have the moral clarity of bumfights.com. I'd rather be running a blood wars ring in my living room, charging admission, and taking a cut of all wagers. But its still neat.

[Brett L]

True, but now that I know this is possible, I'm starting a Blood Wars franchise, charging admission, and taking a cut of all wagers.

[robc]

Do a better job of it than robot wars did. That had potential to be a continuously awesome show, but they screwed it up.

[wylie]

DIY Robots. wtf?

If they'd just put some special-effects-budget-level money into real robots...

[robc]

DIY was fine, they needed 2-3 things:

1. Less cheesy announcers
2. Different rule set to encourage cooler robots
3. Bigger prize money to make it less DIY and encourage more engineering.

[Brett L]

So you're saying no HIV+ fights during sweeps week?

[wylie]

DIY was fine

Bigger prize money to make it less DIY

make up your mind.

[Vermont Gun Owner]

Where's the bookie?

[The Inventor of IVF]

Meh.

[Bee Tagger]

"We can't keep our heads in the sand any longer," City Councilman Bill Rosendahl said.

If that's what he's been using a condom, then I'm going to be a little more skeptical the next time he complains about how his wife is as dry as a desert.

[Fist of Etiquette]

Rep. Chris Lee (R-NY) resigns after Gawker publishes shirtless photos he sent to women he met on Craigslist.

And yet Jeff Flake earns a following after baring his pecs. Craigslist sullies everything.

[Vermont Gun Owner]

Is Lee married? Cause if not I'm not seeing why that's an issue.

[Sovereign Immunity]

Yep, married and also has a child. For now, anyway.

Boehner is reputed to have a zero-tolerance policy for these types of shenanigans. I wish he was more consistent and zero-tolerance with reducing that spending.

[John]

Iowahawk said it best

Send a shirtless picture to someone on Craigslist = resign in disgrace

Spend a $1.5 trillion we don't have = Wednesday.

[MattXIV]

Worst sex scandal ever, at least from Lee's POV. Forced to resign without even getting a handy for his troubles - that's rough.

[Brett L]

Hey look, the FBI recruited another "terrorist". Who may be the stupidest one ever. I learned two things from this article. First, Allah doesn't hate txt notation. And second, we can repeal the Patriot Act because homegrown terrorists are dumber than fungi.

"A Baltimore construction worker was charged Wednesday with plotting to blow up a military recruiting station in Maryland after the FBI learned of his radical leanings on Facebook, joined his plot and supplied him with a fake car bomb that he tried to detonate, federal officials said.

Antonio Martinez, 21, a U.S. citizen who recently converted to Islam and changed his name to Muhammad Hussain, declared on his Facebook page that he hates 'Any 1 who opposes Allah.' Those kinds of postings, brought to the FBI's attention, sparked an intensive investigation involving an undercover agent, a secret informant and a chilling plot to kill military personnel in the United States because they were killing Muslims overseas, according to an FBI affidavit filed Wednesday."

[generic Brand]

The question is, does the FBI only investigate Facebook postings that mention Allah? I have tons of friends who post "I cld kill this guy in my econ clss!!!!" or things of that nature. Death threats, and all that, no?

[Brett L]

I have a running joke with several IM friends to add, "Dear NSA, we're just kidding" whenever the conversation becomes to focused on wishing people harm or blowing shit up.

[generic Brand]

It seems you had better CC the FBI and DHS in those conversations as well.

[Zeb]

I don't oppose Allah. How can one oppose a made up character from a book?

[Clich? Bandit]

I take umbridge with you slight on fungi. Let us not forget, Fungus adorn a well made pizza, Fungus can glow in the dark, Fungus is the largest signle living organism on the planet (dispute with Aspen grove but whatever), and MOST IMPORTANT, Fungus makes beer and liquor...nugh said.

[Old Mexican]

Tea Party-backed candidates giving House GOP leadership fits.

Fox & Friends hosts throwing fits as well. It's so entertaining when fascist, statist fucks are rebuffed!

[Mike M.]

Reason should be feeling pretty good right now. The Senate still sucks ass, but the House now has probably its largest true coalition of libertarian-minded members that it has had in the last 70-80 years or so.

There's a long way to go, but it is progress on a significant scale.

[John]

Really? I rarely watch Fox and Friends. Who is throwing the fit? The blond former Miss USA with the helmet hair and big boobs?

[Old Mexican]

Re: John,

The blond former Miss USA with the helmet hair and big boobs?

And great legs......

But not her really, rather the short- nothing of a guy with the horrible hair and the permanent eye squint. Oh, and Doocy.

Really, I prefer the weekend Fox & Friends, because the hosts are much funnier and much smarter and witty, even if Alysin Camerota has ugly knees.

[John]

The weekend versions of all those shows are better. The weekend version of the Today show is actually watchable. Why anyone at NBC thinks that aging hag Meredith Vierra is in any way preferable to Jenna Wolf is beyond me.

[Sovereign Immunity]

Maybe Comcast will fix that oversight; then Meredith can keep her gig with WWTBAM. And I agree, she is looking a little rough these days.

[Critic]

She was never all that, or even a small part of that.

[zoltan]

There are way cuter hosts on the weekday Today show too! I love Ann Curry (pretty good-looking for an older Asian lady). There's the young brownish-blonde chick and the half-black, half-white chick. All of them have more personality (less Botox) than stupid Meredith.

[SIV]

Gretchen is a former Miss America. They're usually smarter and less skankier than Miss USA.

[creech]

Yeah and graduated with honors too.
But this morning she's interviewing Cong. Bachman about the eight or so new tea party congressmen who went off the reservation on Patriot act. Bachman says she didn't have time to make it clear to them why the extensions were necessary. Absolutely no discussion of pros and cons of extensions, no "let's hear from one of them who voted not to extend." Usually Fox is pretty good about at least a token nod to the other side but this issue must really be upsetting them.

[John]

I wouldn't call her a skank. But I don't find her attractive either. I really don't get how she won the contest. Hell, Robin Meade puts her to shame. And Meade was only Miss Ohio.

[WTF]

Because it's a scholarship contest!

[Old Mexican]

Giffords continues to improve, now eating three meals per day.

But small portions, to keep the foist loidee happy.

[Sovereign Immunity]

Don't worry, the menu is Kosher.

[Old Mexican]

L.A. may require condom use in the porn industry.

Very important task, as there aren't many left for the city government as the city pretty much runs itself....

[Old Mexican]

Human rights groups say Egyptian military detaining, torturing protesters.

We do not fucking torture!

[generic Brand]

L.A. may require condom use in the porn industry.

I'm sure there are plenty of other cities throughout the U.S. that would welcome a multi-billion dollar industry.

[waffles]

c'mon Salt Lake City!

[Apple]

And many other cities throughout the world that would welcome the boost to their already thriving porn industries.

[JD the elder]

Don't worry, we'll just pass some protectionist laws fining companies for sending American (blow) jobs to lower-paid workers in other countries.

[wylie]

^^this. Allow me to recommend Baltimore. Huh? No, I'm not preparing my resume.

[Brett L]

Dudes need $5000 cash, a camera, and a motel room to break into the business. And that's for a fully produced feature-length film with multiple actresses. In any city.

[Vermont Gun Owner]

L.A. may require condom use in the porn industry.

Ah, nothing sexier than stopping to put on a condom. Good work Los Angeles. We wouldn't want the porn industry to be sexy or anything.

[Old Mexican]

I would feel less outraged if LA required all porn stars to have zit-free asses... But no, they had to go with the C-word!

[Creampies]

Hey, what about us!

[Cream pies]

Hey, what about us!

[Old Mexican]

Oh, man... This is a family blog, people! Family blog!!

[Sara Lee]

Yeah, so what?

[Brett L]

You incifed SugarFree, didn't you?

[Porncat]

I cant haz bukkake now?

[SugarFree]

From now on cream pies will be simulated with expired yogurt.

[wylie]

Wouldn't expired yogurt be against OSHA regs or something?

[SugarFree]

Regulations are strangling American business.

[Sovereign Immunity]

So America is into auto-asphyxiation?

[SugarFree]

Yes. But we have Canada around just in case.

[Ice Nine]

Yogurt? Geez, maybe you oughta see a doctor.

[SugarFree]

I was going to say "bloody cottage cheese," but I got that cleared up months ago.

[Anonymous Coward]

Yogurt?! Bah! Sweetened condensed milk is the one true way of the fake money shot.

[The Other Kevin]

This will not be a problem once my CGI
Porn business takes off.

[james cameron's evil twin]

Way ahead of you, bud.

[wylie]

So you'd think. Unfortunately, the law has no exemptions for computer generated images. I hope you enjoy the increased render times from the transparency/reflectiveness of the condom.

[Ska]

"OK, who added bloom effects to the condoms?"

[Uncle Ron]

Don't worry, the condom just spontaneously appears thanks to movie majick

[Fiscal Meth]

Condom porn is horrible. I never thought I'd be saying this but only the pope can save our porn. If he started in on some of his "it's bad to wear condoms" stuff, there are enough catholics in california that it might make a difference.

[Tulpa]

If you're already fornicating/adultering, whether you wear a condom is irrelevant as far as Catholic moral theology is concerned. Contraception is only an issue in otherwise-moral sex.

[Tulpa]

That's not the problem most customers have, as they can easily edit out the actor putting on a condom.

[Old Mexican]

Rep. Chris Lee (R-NY) resigns after Gawker publishes shirtless photos he sent to women he met on Craigslist.

He broke all the rules of decency... which actually means good taste.

[Old Mexican]

Sen. Jim Webb (D-Va.) announces retirement.

"...he voted for the Obamacare bill."

Good riddance, then!

[Old Mexican]

Siemens:
"Technology that lasts longer, uses fewer resources..."

... because it seldom operates...

[Ice Nine]

Not to mention all the rules of common sense.

[Mike M.]

Record snowfall and low temperatures across Okalahoma, some parts of the state even colder than the North Pole.

[Frozen Okie Pie]

Yes, it's currently 12 below where I am.

[Restoras]

So Chris Lee proves he has the exact intellectual requirement (total dumbass) to be a member of Congress and he resigns? Shouldn't he be promoted or something?

[SugarFree]

This isn't the CIA, Restoras.

[John]

Politician credits job at Hooters for her success.

http://news.lalate.com/2011/02.....sentative/

[John]

And the link comes with pictures.

[P Brooks]

* Tea Party-backed candidates giving House GOP leadership fits.

DISOBEY

[John]

One of the Best Dear Prudence letters ever. This thing speaks for itself.

Q. Shattered Dreams: There is this girl I have been interested in. I'm sure we will get along great when we finally get together. Anyway, I keep track of her through Facebook, and recently she changed some settings that allowed me to see a bunch of her pictures. Needless to say, I was shocked. From what I can tell, she has had THREE boyfriends in the past two years. She also has lots of pictures of her in somewhat compromising positions with other girls, and also lots of pictures with alcohol. I was expecting her to be a nice clean girl, but obviously now I feel I have to let her go. Is this a normal occurrence in the young adult dating world? Or should I continue to keep trying to find the right one?

http://www.slate.com/id/2284242/

[SugarFree]

The new Valentine's Day one is pretty good. Oh, look... Episiarch's girlfriend write in...

Dear Prudence,
My boyfriend and I have been together for two years, and I absolutely adore him. He's wonderful to me, treats me like a princess, and is the love of my life. The only problem I have is with the sexual aspect of our relationship. When he and I have sex, I don't feel anything. It's not good, it's not bad; it's just that I get almost no sensation from it. All of the foreplay leading up to sex is wonderful and feels good, but the actual act does nothing for me. We've tried different positions and different things, but it's all the same to me. I know he enjoys it, but I fake it every time. I was a virgin when we started dating, so I don't know if this is something he and I need to continue to work on, or if something could be wrong with me. It's increasingly difficult for me to get excited about having sex. What I should do?
?Frustrated

[John]

I am thinking maybe a strap on?

[SugarFree]

You mean for her to use on Epi? Might work. If it was big enough. His myspace page says he really likes the veiny kind.

[Max's Mom]

Those things are great. Max loves 'em!

[zoltan]

They make penis sleeves too. If I were a guy with a small penis I would carry one around with me everywhere.

[sloopyinca]

That writing style looks just like my girlfriend's.

And she cries every time we have sex.

And, her name is Angela Frustrated Goldberg (family name).

I thought she just didn't like the anal fisting, but I guess the problem goes a bit deeper.

[R C Dean]

She also has lots of pictures of her in somewhat compromising positions with other girls, and also lots of pictures with alcohol. I was expecting her to be a nice clean girl, but obviously now I feel I have to let her go.

Color me confused.

[Abdul]

Is this guy 11 or a Mormon?

[Brett L]

I think we can all agree he's a virgin.

[crimethink]

Maybe he's not into lesbian drunks. I know, what a crazy guy, etc.

[Lord Humungus]

sounds like my kind of girl

[Taxed Enough Already]

SCARY memo from the Chinese Communist Party that's been translated into English:

http://chinascope.org/main/content/view/3291/92/

They're calling for economic, space, and psychological warfare, they believe America is in terminal decline and that they will inherit the "rightful" place atop the world, with their authoritarian Communist system replacing western liberty.

It's downright chilling. Read it, this isn't some fringe nationalist website this is the OFFICIAL POLICY of the CCP!

[Taxed Enough Already]

From the section "economic warfare":

1. Economic Warfare. Of course, to fight the U.S., we have to come up with key "weapons." What is the most powerful weapon China has today? It is our economic power, especially our foreign exchange reserves. The key is to use it well. If we use it well, it is a weapon; otherwise it may become a burden. Counting on the fact that the U.S. dollar is the international currency, the U.S. government has increased the number of dollars in circulation, leading to its devaluation. The countries with high reserves in dollars will suffer, but the U.S. itself loses nothing. However, for this to be true there is a premise. Someone must purchase those excess dollars they printed. If no one purchases them, then they will only be circulated domestically, inside the U.S., and cause inflation. In order for the countries with foreign exchange reserves in the U.S. dollar to restrain the U.S. from over-issuing U.S. currency, they must act together and not buy U.S. dollars. There are two ways to achieve this. The first is for all these countries to reach a consensus and act together as one. The second is if one country takes the lead, does not buy U.S. dollars, and other countries then follow. Which alternative should China choose? The first tactic requires countries with foreign exchange reserves to reach a consensus. China, Japan, the U.K., India, and Saudi Arabia are all countries with high foreign exchange reserves. Japan is constrained by the Japan-U.S. Security Treaty and will not break away from the U.S., so the probability of Japan cooperating is very low. Great Britain has always followed the U.S., so the probability that it will cooperate with China is also pretty low. There have been recent changes in Britain's political structure. Prime Minister Cameron has adopted a new strategy toward China that increases the possibilities for cooperation, making it a more likely player than Japan. Also, the U.K.'s foreign exchange reserves, which are market adjusted instead of sovereign funds, are to a large extent subject to market impact. India has stayed closely allied with the U.S. in recent years, and Obama promised to support India for a permanent membership in the UNSC. Thus, the probability for India to cooperate with China is also not great. India's purchasing power of foreign exchange reserves is very limited anyway, so it cannot influence the overall situation much. Saudi Arabia does not have much political interest in the U.S.; its purchase of foreign exchange reserves is purely commercial. So they are more likely just to follow the market. Based on this analysis, it is very unlikely that China and these countries would ever reach a consensus. Therefore, we are left with the second option, which is to take the lead in affecting the market for U.S. dollars. This approach is market-driven, so others will not be able to easily blame China. It is a good solution, and also we will not owe anyone anything for the favor of becoming our partner. The key issue is that China must have people who understand the market well and are good at using the market at the right time to impact the exchange rate of the U.S. currency. Of course, the most important condition is still that China must have enough courage to challenge the U.S. currency. China can act in one of two ways. One is to sell U.S. dollar reserves, and the second is not to buy any U.S. dollars for a certain period of time. The first option may cause the U.S. dollar to devalue, so China must consider whether it can take a loss resulting from the depreciation of the U.S. dollar. However, the U.S.'s over-printing currency will also cause the dollar to depreciate and will cause the foreign exchange reserve to shrink even more in value. Thus, in comparison, we will probably end up losing less. For the second option, if we do not buy the U.S. debt, what should we buy instead to increase our foreign exchange reserves? Options are the Euro, the British sterling, Japanese yen, Indian rupee, Russian ruble, and Brazilian currency. At the same time, buying the debt of these countries will help promote good relations and economic and trade cooperation between China and these countries. It will enhance China's economic influence in these countries. Therefore, this is a highly cost-effective tactic, and, more importantly, China is the biggest buyer of U.S. debt. China's actions will have a demonstrable effect on the market. If China stops buying, other countries will pay close attention and are very likely to follow. Once the printed excess dollars cannot be sold, the depreciation of the dollar will accelerate and the impact on Americans wealth will be enormous. The U.S. will not be able to withstand this pressure and will curtail the printing of U.S. currency. The dollar will then appreciate. Most importantly, through this, China's foreign exchange reserves will no longer be "the meat of the Tang-dynasty monk" [3] for the U.S. Instead, they will become a major economic force to constrain the U.S. The key to success is that China needs to have enough courage and determination to take the U.S. pressure. This is exactly what we need. It just shows how much the U.S. needs China. The more pressure we can take, the more successful this strategy. It will indicate that this "weapon" is highly effective and the U.S. will start to fear us.

They also have a secret plan to replace the dollar with the RMB as the world's reserve currency under the "financial war" section.

[John]

That is what they think. I think their real estate bubble is going to bust and they are going to collapse into anarchy like they always do.

[The Truth]

Don't count on it, John:

http://www.foreignpolicy.com/a.....an_decline

America's days are over. Once countries begin to industrialize and become welathy (like China) they rarely, if ever, go backwards.

[Name Nomad]

In the late 80s everyone was saying almost the exact same things about Japan that they're now saying about China (though a bit more friendly as they're far less centralized/authoritarian). China will hit a point where the "greater fool" theory of investing will break down and people will realize that they've greatly overextended themselves. They may not collapse or even lose that much ground in real terms, but they're not going to continue double digit GDP growth forever.

[The Truth]

Read the article, this is nothing like Japan or even the USSR.

[Mike M.]

America's days are over. Once countries begin to industrialize and become welathy (like China) they rarely, if ever, go backwards.

You just contradicted yourself in two sentences.

[Tulpa]

I can't believe it took almost half an hour for someone to notice that.

[The Truth]

Don't underestimate the Yellow Peril!!!

[pauly krugnuts]

I came buckets!

[wylie]

pauly bucketnuts?

[Fluffy]

The problem with this strategy is that after you have ALREADY TRADED lots of manufactured goods for little green pieces of paper, devaluing those little green pieces of paper and wiping your asses with them hurts no one but yourself.

We've already got all the shit you sent us, you dopes. If you blow the whistle on the whole "fiat currency" thing, it's not like we have to give any of your shit back.

[John]

Absolutely. A hundred million Chinese are employed becasue of the American market. So the Chinese plan to take over the world by driving their customers into poverty. It is brilliant plan.

[Tulpa]

That's not as true as it once was. China is exporting to plenty of other markets now and investing the money that comes back in non-dollar assets.

They may be authoritarian dickheads, but they're sure as hell not dopes.

[Abra Cadaver]

tl/dr

[hurly buehrle]

Eh. Sounds like hubris to me. I'm with John: I think their bubble economy will have devastating social consequences when it collapses. I don't disagree that the US is in decline, just that China is in a position to enslave the planet in the near term.

[John]

I bet Tom Friedman had an orgasm reading that.

[Taxed Enough Already]

4. Space war. All U.S. strategic forces rely on its strong space facilities, which are both an advantage and a weakness for the U.S. As long as China can fully demonstrate its ability to destroy any space facility, and in particular to attack U.S. satellite facilities with precision, at a minimum cost, China can pose enough of a threat and place enough pressure on the U.S. Compared to U.S. aircraft carriers, U.S. military satellites are more vulnerable to attack. China's missiles can directly attack the military satellites, which usually orbit at an altitude less than 10,000 kilometers. In 2007, when China test fired missiles to destroy an abandoned satellite, the whole United States was shocked. China should make efforts to develop space weapons as soon as possible, as this is the most effective military means of attacking the U.S. If we can eventually fire missiles from a satellite, the U.S. will find that it has nowhere to hide; it will find itself entirely exposed to the attack radius of Chinese weaponry. At the same time, China's satellite technology is what it is most proud of, most good at, and what is most independent (from foreign forces). It is only a small step behind the U.S. and Russia. Vigorously strengthening the building of our space military forces should be not only the focus of our national defense, but also the most powerful weapon to deter U.S. military blackmail. We should learn to explore independence in making more strategic choices and in developing weapons of strategic importance, instead of following the direction of the U.S. military. Of course, the Chinese government should not be afraid of Western media hype about the China threat. Defending our own interests is more important than any PR stunt. When the U.S. government sent troops to occupy Iraq and Afghanistan, it didn't even care about criticism from other countries. Following our own way is a reflection of our self-confidence and is also a strategy.

[Fluffy]

We could always just tell them that the ticket price of shooting down one US satellite is 1 billion dead Chinese.

Then they can decide how smart a stategy space war actually is.

[Mike M.]

Threats like this are only credible if your enemy believes you might actually carry it out. And I don't think anyone seriously believes in this day and age that we're going to exterminate a country of over a billion people over the loss of a satellite.

[Fluffy]

I think you are sorely mistaken if you believe that the rest of the world thinks it can attack US space assets without facing massive retaliation in response.

Seriously, deterrence theory is not that hard. It only takes the statement.

Eisenhower was a sweet old man, but when he said the words "massive retaliation" everyone believed it. For the simple reason that the penalty for not believing it, and then being proved wrong, was way too high.

[Tulpa]

You didn't say the US would simply retaliate, you said that we would kill a billion Chinese. You're overstating your case by a longshot.

[CaptainSmartass]

Eisenhower was a not a "sweet old man". He was the former SAC-Europe, the man who lead the invasion of Fortress Europe and crushed Italy and Nazi Germany. When he said he was willing to drop lots of bombs, people believed him because he had already done it.

[Tulpa]

OK, maybe they are dopes after all. Part of the international horror over China shooting its own satellite is that an exploding satellite doesn't just disappear...it scatters hundreds of metal bits into orbit at high speed, which isn't good news for all the other satellites in orbit, regardless of national origin.

[Taxed Enough Already]

3. Military exercises and simulated warfare. No doubt the U.S. military exercises challenge China's strategic bottom line. China should certainly actively respond, but the issue is how to respond skillfully. Wherever the U.S. chooses to conduct its military exercises, let's pick another location for our military exercise. This is not to avoid confrontation; it is "besieging Wei to rescue Zhao." [3] The timing can be the same, but the location can be different. In areas where the U.S. once engaged in a military exercise, the Chinese military should immediately arrange a military exercise with a clear target, simulating war. There is no need for China to fear the U.S. aircraft carrier. During the Korean War, when the contrast in military strength was much greater than it is now, we were not afraid; why should we be now? Would the U.S. really dare to start a war with China? Facts prove that America is a paper tiger that cannot even handle Iraq or Afghanistan, not to mention China. [emphasis added] We should definitely have the strategic determination and courage to defy such an enemy. As for aircraft carriers, they should not put any military pressure on China. Courageously contacting the U.S. carriers will only benefit us, not harm us. Only by in-depth contact can we truly understand the U.S. aircraft carriers. The fundamental purpose of war simulation via military exercises is to show China's determination to meet challenges instead of avoiding them. This will send a clear message to the world that China has the strong will to resolutely safeguard its national sovereignty.

[Tulpa]

Facts prove that America is a paper tiger that cannot even handle Iraq or Afghanistan, not to mention China.

Tell that to Saddam Hussein and the Taliban.

The US did a bang-up job of obliterating the existing governments of those places, we just have trouble maintaining stability in the territory afterward. China would (obviously) be a much tougher govt to handle, but I doubt the CCP would delight in the prospect of its own destruction followed by some other Chinese movement giving the US trouble.

[Corduroy]

Of course they imagine themselves at the top, I would have been surprised if they didn't.

The real determining factor will be what happens when rampant inflation drives food prices up in China and they can't feed themselves. Significant social unrest is the major challenge to the CCP, not the USA.

[NotSure]

Every country has its hawks, I doubt that China will become like Japan where the "Young officers" take control. The real threat to America is itself, trying to police the world and confront every potential threat will in the end be what actually cause its failure.

[Chad]

I'm cool with this.

[Tony]

If the Chinese Communist Party had a collective dick, I'd suck it.

[shrike]

Better than you Christfags deserve.

[Max]

ARFARFARFARFARFARFARF!!!!!!!!!!

[Willy Makit]

I see what you did there.

[P Brooks]

"It is going to take a while for them to find their way," said Representative John B. Larson of Connecticut, chairman of the Democratic Caucus. "For so many of their new members, discipline within the party and allegiance to a party doesn't mean an awful lot."

Da noive o' dem guys!

[MJ]

To think that they are following the wishes of the people who voted them in as a revolt against of the demonstrated tendency of the GOP party leadership to not adhere to conservative thought and principles.

[The Other Kevin]

Indiana teachers continue pants-wetting over school choice and pay linked to performance.

http://www.nwitimes.com/news/l.....324dd.html

[generic Brand]

Why aren't they in school?!?

[P Brooks]

In a swipe at the administration, the bill would eliminate $5 billion in high-speed rail money.

Vice President Biden Foghorn Leghorn, when informed of this, responded, "Of course you know- this means WAR!"

[Bugs Bunny]

Dat's MY Line, doc!

[The Truth]

It's pretty fucking damning that the only strategy America has for China is "pray for a collapse", isn't it?

[Corduroy]

Unless China plans on invading the US, or even the rest of SE Asia, who really cares if they're a successful country? Our real problems are here at home, primarily with our inability to constrain our spending and military wanderlust.

[The Truth]

But those chinks are really clever.

We're DOOOOOOOMED!!!!

[NotSure]

A collapse of China would be bad for America, a rising China is good for America. When people trade everyone wins, China is not about to want conflict with its trading partners.

[The Truth]

God you're a fucking fool.

China isn't interested in "everyone winning", they're interested in dominating the world and having everyone else pay tribute to them.

[NotSure]

You are paranoid, the average Chinese wants to get on with their lives, the CCP will not be able to dominate its own neighbourhood, with countries like Japan, Russia, India and Korea (unified one day), its not possible. Ruling the world is laughable.

[Fluffy]

Go wet your pants somewhere else.

The hydrogen bomb represents the fundamental force that provides all energy in the universe. And we have thousands of them and can run off thousands more whenever we feel like it.

There is no power anywhere on Earth that poses any short-term or long-term threat to the United States. We might be able to destroy ourselves USSR-style, but no outside power can do shit to us without destroying the entire Earth biosphere in the process. So we either win, or the Earth starts over as a cinder. There are no other choices.

[Pro Libertate]

Dude, did some Chinese guy touch you inappropriately? I mean, come on.

If we're in a decline and can't get out of it, then some other power will eventually trump us. Whether it's China--which is full of problems of its own--is anyone's guess. but I suspect that there are plenty of other players that could take the title. Or maybe no one country does.

It's not impossible that the next great economic leader will be an old one--Europe. They're showing some signs of understanding that European socialism may not be the future they thought it was.

This, of course, only speaks to economic power. The U.S.'s military is far, far, far beyond any other country's. If we decline and continue to become more authoritarian, hard to think that we won't start using that military to make up for our economic woes. Another reason not to keep walking down this unlimited government/very limited market path.

[The Truth]

Economic strength=military strength, rememer the cold war?

Good luck outspending China on their military when their economy is bigger than ours.

[Pro Libertate]

Their economy is around 1/3 the size of ours. And that's assuming that they aren't monkeying with the numbers.

[The Truth]

It's 60 percent of ours when adjusted for PPP (this is the figure to use to represent pure warmaking ability) and will surpass us in PPP by 2019.

[NotSure]

If you follow the history of USSR they had exactly they same stats. The fact is that the Chinese government is building things that nobody needs, like high speed trains, stealth fighters and mega dams. The GDP number might be impressive, just like Soviet steel production was boosting GDP, but in the end it contributing nothing. The average Chinese is poor, they do not want war nor can conduct a war they want a brighter future.

[#]

but they have a much large population... mroe of the PPP has to go to making stuff like food and housing. Eventually they have potential to outpower us simply because they have way more people, but for the time being that will not be so.

[MWG]

"Economic strength=military strength"

Wrong. We spend 7x the amount the Chinese do on defense. Are we 7x bigger than China?

[Abra Cadaver]

"If we're in a decline and can't get out of it, then some other power will eventually trump us."

I'm hoping it is India. Their cuisine is teh awesome!

[Devil Inchoate]

If I had to put my money on a country for the 21st century, it would be India.

[John]

That is a good point. And there is something kind of creepy about the way people like The Truth, cheerlead for China. This kind of shit has been going on for my entire life. It started with the Soviet Union and then it was Japan and now it is China. There is a certain breed of American who is forever convinced that some other country using a central control system will surpass and destroy America. They often couch it in patriotic terms as in America must do something to save itself. But the undercurrent of hoping that a central control system will beat out American freedom is always there.

I don't if China will be dominant or not. But, since China is an awful authoritarian state, I hope it collapses like the Soviet Union before it. People like the Truth seem to honestly hope that cental authority wins. I find that really disturbing.

[The Truth]

I don't if China will be dominant or not. But, since China is an awful authoritarian state, I hope it collapses like the Soviet Union before it.

Sorry to say, you're going to e horribly dissappointed.

Read the foreign policy article I linked to. It talks about the USSR and Japan comparisons, and points out how it's nothing like them.

Remember, the boy who cried wolf was eventually right--the wolf came, and China is the wolf.

[Ska]

The boy who cried wolf is also a work of fiction.

[Zeb]

So stop crying wolf then, stupid.

[Abra Cadaver]

"Sorry to say, you're going to e horribly dissappointed."

You may think you have psychic powers, but I think you have a head full of shit.

[Anonymous Coward]

Remember, the boy who cried wolf was eventually right--the wolf came, and China is the wolf.

Making your name (The Truth) somewhat inappropriate as the moral of the Shepard Boy and the Wolf was:

"Even when liars tell the truth, they are never believed. The liar will lie once, twice, and then perish when he tells the truth."

And don't forget, in some tellings, the boy was the first one the wolf ate.

[The Truth]

Just wait until they decide to impose their authoritarian capitalist model on everybody.

Once they have the power to, they will. They can't let democratic models exist, as long as their people see them they will want them. They have to cause problems for democracies to prove its "failure" as a system.

[Taxed Enough Already]

Everyone saying "it's not a big deal!" should read the "befriending distant enemies" part of the article. They're openly bragging about how they're going to set up military bases in Mexico and Venezuela.

[NotSure]

When they actually have set up a military base in Mexico then get back to me. It will never happen, I will put my head on the block and give you a nice sharp axe if I am wrong.

[James Monroe]

What NotSure said.

[sloopyinca]

Michigan charges man with animal cruelty over the stupidest shit imaginable. Assistant prosecutor confirmed to be a fuckwit.

[Ska]

Link = SF'd.

[Juice]

There must be more to the story. I'd have to see the video. The man ran an animal control company. He probably had snares and traps. I'll bet he snared the raccoon and let the dog tear it up while cheering and video taping. Probably let the raccoon suffer for quite a while before it died. If any of this is the case. I say fuck him. Charge him with the misdemeanor.

[Fluffy]

Dead link

[sloopyinca]

Fixed!

[Rich]

The cruelty is in the recording.

Any LEO can tell you that.

[Brett L]

I think we ought to put the prosecutor in a sack full of racoons and throw him in a river.

[Rich]

At least require him to do a bout of ferret legging.

[Abra Cadaver]

"The world record is five hours and thirty minutes."

JESUS!

[Ice Nine]

There is a distinct Darwinian element inherent in this.

[P Brooks]

Yellow Peril circlejerk.

Wheeeee!

[Fluffy]

Yeah today seems to be Yellow Peril Day.

It's like when Tom Friedman wets himself about how much money China is pouring into scaling up solar.

Wow, we're supposed to be terrified that China is expending resources on the leading edge of the manufacturing cycle for a new product [which is where the RoI is always the worst], and we're supposed to fear and dread the coming day when we will...buy solar technology really cheaply because someone else already scaled it up for us.

The horrors!

[SugarFree]

Some people just like wetting the bed; what they wet the bed about is mostly incidental.

[Pro Libertate]

China is causing global warming to drown us all!

[Sovereign Immunity]

Really? Why didn't John Huang let Algore know?

[sloopyinca]

It was in the memo line on the check.

[Pro Libertate]

My company has a lot of stuff manufactured in China. It's our stuff, our designs, and it only gets sold to anyone by us. We police the knock-off trade and pretty much call the shots, because we can find other factories if one causes trouble.

As long as this is the case and as long as the innovation and consumption are totally in Western control, which is largely the situation today, China's no threat. They can compete and lessen our lead (and drive up prices for scarce resources), but they're hardly alone in that. The U.S. has never been the only power on Earth. And China has plenty of competition for cheap labor.

The real Asian tiger, as just about anyone who knows the region is aware, is India. And even it has sufficient issues to overcome to make it only a long-term competitor to us.

[Sovereign Immunity]

Behold the power of Bollywood!

[Pro Libertate]

Yep.

[John]

See my post above. If you ever notice that for these people the country that is going to finally do in the US for its sinful ways is always a country with an authoritarian or close to authoritarian government with massive controls on the economy. That is no coincidence.

[The Truth]

Why don't you read the fucking Foreign Policy article before commenting using talking points that have already been debunked in it?

[Abra Cadaver]

Here's a cock:

OO=====D

Suck it dry.

[Abra Cadaver]

Here's a cock:

OO=====D

Suck it dry.

[NotSure]

I suspect that the Chinese are building those solar panels for rich American yuppies, the Chinese do not have the luxury of spending precious money on feel good stuff.

[The Truth]

Chinese children are studying harder, their government is spending more on R&D, defense, renewable resources, etc., they're working harder and their government actually has a plan.

Americans are fat dumbasses stuffing themselves full of hamburgers, buying plastic carp, and majoring in worthless shit like Women's Studies.

[John]

Okay. you were doing a great job trolling until you put in the 'renewable resources' bit. Now you are just being funny.

[The Truth]

Yeah, because no one is going to want to buy solar panels or hydroelectric dams, right John?

COAL IS TEH FUTURE!!!

Moron.

[John]

That is the Chinese think whathttp://www.ecoworld.com/energy-fuels/chinas-coal.html

According to the US DOE's Energy Information Administration, over the next 20 years or so, the amount of energy produced in China from coal is going to double, from about 50 quadrillion BTUs ("quads") of energy in 2007 to 95 quads by 2030.

Seriously, you are bringing the stupid today.

[Fluffy]

You're such an idiot.

China's investment in solar power actually benefits us.

They are spending the low-return dollars on proving the technology and scaling it up.

The "winner" in that scenario is whoever deploys the new technology last, because they don't waste any resources on high-waste developmental stage activities, but gain the benefits of the mature [and newly inexpensive] technology.

You really are reaching if you're trying to convince me that it would somehow be bad for the US if China manages to turn solar into a competitive energy technology.

"But - but - but - think of the suffering it spread through the world when the US developed the telephone! Think of all the agony endured by the industrialized nations of the world, after the US scaled up oil refining and the internal combustion engine!"

John has you pegged exactly right. You fundamentally believe that authoritarianism is a superior way to organize a society, because it means that "the government has a plan".

If authoritarianism actually was a superior way to organize a society, we'd all be speaking either German or Russian.

[Citizen Nothing]

Technically, it's "idoit."

[Pro Libertate]

I'm not feeling threatened by Chinese growth, but I am feeling threatened by the possibility of a U.S. decline. Which is coming mostly because our government can't stop acting as a parasite on our lives and on our economy. A parasite that doesn't care whether it kills its host or not.

That's the real threat--suicide.

[NotSure]

Do not feel too bad, in Europe the decline has been going for some time now, people still get on with their lives despite the parasites on society, and yes they are much worse than in North America.

America will not be able to police the entire world one day, it does not matter, how this should cause an individual to lose happiness does not make sense.

[sloopyinca]

You got any links to support the spending points or are you just full of shit?

[Montani Semper Liberi]

Why are you here? Every second you spend on here, China is getting further ahead. America needs your help, so get off the internet and get working. Be an example to us all.

[Corduroy]

I like plastic carp, I think they look nice on my mantle.

[Ska]

I don't think I can tolerate another novelty singing fish.

[R C Dean]

There's no question China can hurt us by ratcheting down its holdings of Treasuries, which will lead to higher interest rates (hurting our economy) as we have to pay enough interest on Treasuries to attract replacement buyers and a devalued dollar (hurting our economy) as the Fed monetizes debt.

Of course, this will also hurt China, as devaluing the dollar will (continue to) drive food inflation and impact their dollar-denominated assets.

Whether we hurt worse or China hurts worse depends on how they do it, and what else is going on at the time.

[The Truth]

I'm going to keep posting this article until people, especially John, actually fucking read it:

http://www.foreignpolicy.com/a.....an_decline

[John]

It doesn't debunk anything dumbass. It is nothing but the same authoritarian revenge fantasy that has been playing in people like you's heads for about the last 50 years or more.

[The Truth]

Did you read it, or are you just burying your head in the sand because it might raise uncomfortable truths?

Again, for the millionth fucking time, it addresses the earlier USSR and Japan comparisons. Neither were credible candidates for #1, the USSR due to its Stalinist economy and Japan because it only has around 150 million people and no military to speak of.

[John]

First, the whole concept of "number 1" is rediculous. The richer they are, the more we tade with them and the richer we will become. The rise of the US didn't hurt Britain, it helped them.

Second, you don't know shit. You didn't even know how heavily the Chinese are investing in coal. I can still hear the crickets chirping after I pointed that out to you above. So take your Tom Friedman talking points elswhere.

[The Truth]

Still haven't read the article, I see.

If you don't like things that bum you out, maybe you should go play video games instead of discussing geopolitics.

[John]

Yeah because you clearly read so much that doesn't affirm you pre existing biases and fantasies. For the 100th time, world trade is not a zero sum game. We want the Chinese and the Indians and such to do well. I don't want China to fall into anarchy, but I fear they will becasue their system is so corrupt and there are so many demographic and social problems there. But the day it happens, will not be a good day for the US.

[The Truth]

READ THE ARTICLE.

[The Rectal]

READ THE BLOG.

[Citizen Nothing]

No, no, John. According to the holy Foreign Policy text, world trade really is a zero-sum game.

[cynical]

At a glance, the article's a bunch of opinion and speculation. Great, self-appointed experts agree with you. Who gives a flying fuck?

If we're going to be enslaved by authoritarians, I'd rather it be the Chinese. A) Revolution is a lot easier when the enemy's main base of power is overseas, B) maintaining colonies just isn't worth the trouble, so they'll eventually go away.

[P Brooks]

I'm going to keep posting this article

Did a copy of Foreign Policy fall off a bookcase and land on your fuzzy little head, Chicken Little?

[Citizen Nothing]

Chicken Rittle?
Sorry. I couldn't help myself.

[Citizen Nothing]

So is the Truth hawking learn-Mandarian CDs or something? I fail to glean a point from his posts.

[Citizen Nothing]

Mandarin

[Corduroy]

I like Mandarin oranges. I welcome the Chinese Overlords and their crispy mandarin orange salads.

[Citizen Nothing]

Ah - He could actually be a new viral marketing campaign for Wendy's new Hot and Juicy Mandarin Salad.

[The Truth]

You all just can't admit that China is successful because it makes complete nonsense of "free market" libertarian ideas.

Here is a country with lots of central controls over its economy that is growing by leaps and bounds and expected to be #1 in the world by 2019. What does that say about libertarian economics?

After 2019 especially you're no longer going to be able to say "READ ECON 101! LOL!" when the largest economy in the world is one with major central controls.

[Citizen Nothing]

Ah.
Now we see the violence inherent in the system.

[Peasant]

Help! Help! I'm being repressed!

[Citizen Nothing]

Dennis, there's some lovely filth down here!

[John]

"You all just can't admit that China is successful because it makes complete nonsense of "free market" libertarian ideas."

I would like some credit here. Can I peg these fuckers or what? Cheerleading China is nothing but an authoritarin revenge fantasy for these people.

[Citizen Nothing]

Naw. He just wants the trains to run on time.

[Citizen Nothing]

But it's true that, if you poke 'em hard enough, the truth usually oozes out.

[John]

If you notice, he started calling me names first. The truth usually hits a nerve.

[Citizen Nothing]

"The truth usually hits a nerve."
But not The Truth.
Wait. I'm getting confused.

[#]

the other point he misses is that this rapid growth has onyl occured by liberalising its markets relative to where they were prior. Right now they can grow by simply adopting developed world technologies and capital... at some point you need to start innovating yourself and using factors of production efficiently. If they dont continue to liberalize more and more, this growth will slow.

[Corduroy]

Now I get it. Your neoconservative side is showing.

[Pro Libertate]

Ah, yes. I heard this kind of crap about the U.S.S.R. as well.

Who do you think buys all of that stuff? Without our consumption, China is fucked. Like totally fucked.

[The Truth]

IT's all addressed in the article.

[Pro Libertate]

That's some article!

[Sandi]

I took a shit in China once. It really scared me.

[Tulpa]

The Truth is exaggerating things, but China is exporting more heavily to non-US markets these days. The days when we can assume a US decline would hurt China even more are numbered.

[Fluffy]

Get back to me when their GDP is 4 times ours.

They have four times the population, so they should have a GDP four times ours. Right?

[The Truth]

Their GDP is 60% of ours already.

Just ten years ago their GDP was smaller than Italy's. Now it's #2.

[Fluffy]

The US GDP is 14.2 trillion. Its population is 300 million.

That means we have 47 billion in GDP per million in population.

The Chinese GDP is around 5 trillion. Their population is around 1.2 billion.

That means they have around 4.16 billion in GDP per million in population.

I'm not worried.

[The Truth]

Adjust it for PPP or you don't know what the fuck you're talking about.

[Fluffy]

Real dollar GDP is real dollar GDP and requires no adjustment.

[P Brooks]

Remember, the boy who cried wolf was eventually right--the wolf came, and China is the wolf.

You left out the best part of the story: the wolf gobbled up the annoying little shithead who kept everybody else in the village from getting anything accomplished.

[Citizen Nothing]

I'm reading some old-fashioned Aesop's now to my five-year-old twins. Gruesome stuff. They love it.

[Citizen Nothing]

Speaking of fairy tales, I'll read them that Foreign Policy article next.
Ba da bing, ba da boom!
I'll be here all week!

[The Truth]

DISTURBING!!1!!!1! VERY DISTURBING!

This proves Chinese military superiority:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20.....ilmoffbeat

YELLOW PERIL!!!!!!!111

[The Truth]

SEE???

FU MANCHU IS FLYING INTO THE DANGER ZONE!!!

[Fluffy]

Authoritarianism and mercantile economics is the wave of the future!

Just ask Hosni Mubarak.

[Fluffy]

Three weeks ago Egypt was the most stable authoritarian government in the Middle East.

That's how fast the cookie crumbles when your organizing principle is naked force.

At any given moment in time, the Chinese polity is three bad weeks away from total collapse.

The Glorious Yellow Future is a long time off, when you break it up into three week increments.

[The Truth]

Just like 1989 in Beijing, right Fluffy?

Unlike Egypt, the Chinese have no moral qualms about using military force to keep power.

[John]

And shooting your citizens is clearly the path to success. Yeah, nasty governments who are dispised by their populations can hold on via the power of the gun. But it doesn't exactly get the country anywhere.

[Fluffy]

"The military" isn't a shovel or a screwdriver.

It "works" as a tool when the rank and file, non-coms, and junior officers obey.

They obeyed in 1989. Would they obey a second time?

It's pretty easy to get conscript peasants to fire on civilians. It's a lot harder to make that stick as your society becomes wealthier and your average recruit is better educated and less atomized. The Germans made that stick, for a few years, but few others have had much success at it.

Your premise requires that the average Chinese remain as easy to rule as he was in 1989, even as you make him wealthier, better educated, etc.

Good luck with that.

[The Truth]

Yeah, the Chinese are really going to want to immitate our system after 2008! Why, we've never been better!

Lol.

[The Truth]

Yeah, the Chinese are really going to want to immitate our system after 2008! Why, we've never been better!

Lol.

[Fluffy]

Considering the fact that we produce 10x as much GDP per capita as they do, yeah, they might.

You're also a little foolish in referring to "the Chinese" as if they will speak with one voice. As if Chinese people will gladly live in industrial barracks to toil away for the glory of the state, even after the per capita GDP is there to allow them a better life.

[P Brooks]

Another timely tale from Aesop's book is the Dog in the Manger.

Just last evening I was talking to somebody who was whining about something or other, and all I could hear was, "There are many wonderful things I could be doing, but only if I could be guaranteed nobody but I would gain any benefit from them."

Okay, Eeyore.

[Abra Cadaver]

"Another timely tale from Aesop's book is the Dog in the Manger."

You mean Mohummad?

[Citizen Nothing]

An eagle and a dragon were fighting over a carcass by the side of the road.
The dragon, seeking to cheat the eagle of his fair share, sat to the east, where the rising sun would temporarily blind the eagle.
With the sun in the eagle's eyes, the dragon stealthy dragged away all the bones and offal, leaving the eagle only the meat.
The eagle gorged himself until he burst. The dragon starved.
And a passing platypus was hit by 2010 beige-colored Kia Sorento.

Moral: There truth, and then there's The Truth.

[Tulpa]

Doesn't sound like it turned out well for either one.

[The Truth]

LOL, once again, the only "strategy" people have for China is to pray for a collapse.

After 2008 especially the charms of "democracy" have worn off to the Chinese. We have nothing to teach them. While our economy is moribound and our politics deadlocked their economy grows by leaps and bounds even during a world-wide recession.

Get used to it!

[The Truth]

When they take a look at our "freedom" that's what they see--a collapsing economy and degenerate society, and a country in terminal decline.

[Abra Cadaver]

Great. You've conveyed your ideas. Now please shut the fuck up.

[John]

If only we could have forced abortions, a huge number of young men with no hope of marrige, hundreds of millions of people living in poverty, a real estate bubble the likes of which God has never seen, if only our government was so insecure in its power that the feds were torturing and killing scientologists.

Seriously, you talk about a degenerate society and then you praise China? Ignorant is too mild of a word for you. We need a new one.

[The Truth]

Because it's not like we've ever tortured people or had real estate bubbles, right John?

[The Truth]

We may not have tortured Scientoligsts, but we did burn and gas the Branch Davidians to death with military grade weapons! USA! USA! USA!

[John]

Yeah, Waco is just like the systematic arrest and torture of millions of followers of a benign religous cult. Seriously, keep talking.

[The Truth]

Well, why don't we talk about one million dead Iraqi civillians then, killed in the war?

I guess they don't count since they're brown and Muslim right?

[John]

1. The million dead Iraqis is a figure in yoru mind not reality.

2. The vast majority of the civilian casualties in Iraq were caused by our enemies conducting a multi year campaign of terror bombings targeted at civilians.

But, you don't live in reality. So there is no point in arguing facts. You live in a fantasy world that feeds whatever emotional issues you seem to have.

[The Truth]

Read this John:

http://www.projectcensored.org.....ccupation/

One million Iraqis, dead. They site the British medical journal "The Lancet".

AFter Iraq and the financial crisis, nobody wants American "freedom" anymore.

[John]

1. The Lancet study hs been debunked about a million times.

2. Even if it were true, there are two sides to the war. Our enemies are responsible for most of those deaths. You just attribute them all to the US because you are insane.

http://www.gaypatriot.net/2007.....nkedagain/

The study was funded by Soros and has been shown repeatedly to be completely false.

Just stop it. I am starting to feel sorry for you.

[Citizen Nothing]

"We need a new one."
I propose "turdmudgeon."

[Pro Libertate]

What, pray tell, are you advocating? That we become a totalitarian state, too?

[Fluffy]

I think this entire production of his is just a prelude for his brilliant Industrial Policy strategy, which will consist of:

1. Dey tuk yer jahbs!
2. High speed rail to the rescue!
3. Green jobs that can't be outsourced!

...maybe with a little pre-1939 British colonial Great Game rhetoric thrown in for flavor.

[John]

Look, the only way we can save ourselves is by doing exactly what the governmetn tells us fluffy.

[Vermont Gun Owner]

A "collapsing economy" that at its lowest point still has 10 times the GDP per capita.

[P Brooks]

Actually, the Dog in the Manger is an excellent proxy for our Yellow Peril hysterics.

They express abject terror at the possibility that those wily Chinamen might get a technological jump on us, but if you asked them if they might consent to having an actual real world Green Technology Factory (which requires processes involving a lot of extremely nasty and toxic raw materials) in their communities, it's unlikely they would willingly consent.

[P Brooks]

They obeyed in 1989.

As I recall, there was a considerable amount of speculation at the time as to whether the army would carry out their orders to clear Tienanmen Square.

[The Truth]

They did, didn't they?

And they're better off for it. Russia had a "democracy" in the '90s and it didn't work out so well for them, did it?

China would be worse off today if those protests had succeeded. They would have ended up like the ex-Soviet Union instead of the #2 economy in the world and the future Superpower.

[John]

Man you are really showing your true colors aren't you. I guess all of the people who have been unjustly locked up, tortured and killed by the Chinese government since then just got what they deserved didn't they?

[The Truth]

I don't think anyone in this country can lecture anyone about torture anymore, John.

[John]

So quantity makes no difference. Having a few rougue perverts at Abu Garib who are later thrown in prison is the same thing hs systematically torturing and terrorizing millions. Yeah, that makes sense.

And beyond that, one has nothing to do with the other. You jsut said you are glad that the protesters at Tinanmin square failed and by implication think that China having a horrible corrupt oppressive governmetn is a good thing.

That makes you very immoral and really pretty damned sick. I guess if Germany hadn't declared war on the world and stayed a super power, you would have thought the Nazis were great to. You pretty much seem to be without a moral compass.

[The Truth]

You really buy the "few bad apples" nonsense?

God, you're a toolbag.

And that's not even the end of it. There's been endless torture at Gitmo for years. So don't try to lecture other nations on "human rights".

[John]

You know about as much about GUITMO as you do about the Chinese use of coal energy.

Your love of China is clearly the product of your own guilt and issues with the United States. You hope and pray China will enact some kind of wierd revenge on the US. The idea that both the US and China can do well in a big world never enters your mind because the point is to see the US go down. China is just the vehicle. So you go and hunt facts that fit the narative and live vicariously in this dream world where someday the hated US and by extension you in some ways, will finally pay for its sinful ways.

You don't need an education. you need a therapist.

[The Truth]

Tell us how we never tortured anyone at Gitmo, John!

Or how we didn't kill one million Iraqis.

[John]

Seriously, get help.

[oncogenesis]

I don't think anyone in this country can lecture anyone about torture anymore

Why the fuck not? I am not the government. I am not a military "contractor". I am not culpable for the actions of the scum that tortures in the name of US hegemony.

[Fluffy]

Actually, it worked out great for them.

Russia has a higher GDP now, and Russians have a higher standard of living now, than at any time in their history.

And what's your evidence that China's economic performance would have been worse if the protests had succeeded? China to this day has a mix of state-run enterprises and private enterprises, and their economic growth has been overwhelmingly weighted towards the private ones.

The only regard in which Russia is worse off now than in 1990 is in the vague and pointless category of "respect" - in the sense that no one other than Cathy Young fears them any more. But so what? You can't eat respect.

[The Truth]

Uh, yeah, after Putin came to power.

When they had a democarcy in the '90s (with a constitution modeled on ours and the French one) they were in economic free-fall and social collapse.

Gorbachev even admitted recently that they should have followed the "Chinese model".

[Fluffy]

The Russian republic is still a democracy, dude.

[The Truth]

No it's not, it's an authoritarian one-party system now. Maybe not offically, but de facto it is.

[Fluffy]

The Truth is revealed to be Cathy Young!

"You Americans could learn a thing or two from Studly Putin!"

[The Truth]

Just to see how differently the Chinese think from us, when you ask them if it would be better for 1,000 guilty criminals to go free rather than see one innocent man jailed wrongly, they'll respond "better for who? It would be better for society if the 1,000 were jailed".

[P Brooks]

And they're better off for it.

You're such a fucking retard.

Some Chinese citizens have become wealthy in the twenty intervening years. Is the nation of China as a whole "better off" than they might otherwise have been? I don't know, and neither do you.

[Fluffy]

The Truth has an awfully high level of regard for the stability of a society that utterly collapsed in the face of revolution twice in the 20th century, and damn near did a 3rd time.

Before they can be a 1000 year reich, dude, they need to put together a few more decades of not going completely to pieces.

"Blah blah blah Confucian values!"

Confucian values didn't save the emperor and they didn't save Chiang Kai Shek.

[The Truth]

Confucian values have worked out beautifully for Singapore.

It really is the model of the future.

[Fluffy]

That's like arguing that San Francisco proves that Marxism is the wave of the future.

Singapore will face a generational crisis soon enough. The clock is ticking.

[The Truth]

Hmmm, funny, the only countries that have faced major economic and political crises in the past five years are western ones, especially the USA.

Hmm...

[Pro Libertate]

We've faced a political crisis? When?

And we're in a recession, not a "crisis." Only people who want to grab some extra power think this is "Depression 2.0" or whatever. Crap, the late 70s/early 80s were worse than this.

[Fluffy]

But Pro, come on, they cut pensions in Greece! IT IS TEH CRISISSISISISISISIS!!!!@I@*@(!)!

[Mike M.]

Hmmm, funny, the only countries that have faced major economic and political crises in the past five years are western ones, especially the USA.

Japan's economy has been solidly stuck in the crapper for almost twenty years now.

[The Chinese]

We rive in yo' croset.

We watch you sreep at night.

[Citizen Nothing]

Sugar Free, is that you? This is actually almost as good as your porn.

[The Truth]

Silly Americans!

Your GDP is 10x ours per capita, and you have the world's largest manufacturing base, and most stable political system, and your network of alliances reaches right up on to the doorsteps of Moscow and Beijing, and you may have the world's most powerful military and a massive nuclear arsenal - but we have you right where we want you! Muwahhahahahahahahahaha!"

[The Truth]

Spoof--

The US will no longer have the worlds largest manufacturing base soon. China will surpass us this year in industrial production, and continue to grow bigger and bigger after.

[John]

That manufacturing base is the result of a chronically undervalued Yuan. They are doing the same thing the Japanese did in the 70s and 80s which is selling stuff at what amounts to a lose becuase their currency is so undervalued. At some point that catches up to you. You economy gets out of whack. you don't have any domestic demand and you are over invested in export manufacturing. Once your currency goes to its natural value, and it will eventually, you can no longer sell all that stuff you manufacture overseas and you don't have the domestic demand to take up the slack. Areas of Japan look like Detroit today. The same thign is going to happen to China.

[The Truth]

Japan bowed to US pressure by signing the Plaza Accord.

China can't be pushed around like that. And despite the recession, they STILL grew at double digits. It's an economic miracle that makes nonsense of your free market cult.

They grew at 10% because they instituted a massive government stimumulus program and didn't have to worry about Jim DeMint placing a secret hold on on a new airport for Shanghai.

[John]

Eventually people will just refuse to trade with China if they don't do somethign about their currency. It is not a matter of beign pushed around. It is about the choice of doing something about the currency or facing a trade war. The Yuan will not be undervalued forever

And yes, China is spending on stimulus and creating huge distortions and bubbles. Much worse than here. What happened to the US in 2010 will happen to China ten fold over in the next five years.

[The Truth]

Hahahaha. They're not going to give up a market of 1 billion customers. Even Google is returning and doing what their govt wants.

They have the trump card of the largest potential market in the world.

General Motors sold more cars in a foreign country than in the US for the first time in history last year, and what was that country? China. And they're not exporting them from Michigan, they're building them in Shanghai, because they have to do that or the Chinese shuts off the market.

[John]

The market isn't that great. That is the problem. If your currency is undervalued, your market doens't have the purchasing power it should. That is why it fucks you.

also, didn't you say above China's master plan is for the US to over print money? Well if we do that, the dolalr goes down and the Yuan will no longer be over valued. Indeed, other counties can act independently to destroy the value of the Yuan and will at some point either intentionally or unintentionally.

On that note I will stop feeding the troll.

[Vermont Gun Owner]

Who in the US wants to buy Government Motors?

[Old Codger]

SHUT THE FUCK UP ASSCUNT. YOU A WAY TOO FUCKING ANNOYING.

[P Brooks]

didn't have to worry about Jim DeMint placing a secret hold on on a new airport for Shanghai.

And they also forcibly uprooted thousands of people in order to piss away billions of dollars on the Olympics.

We so krevverrr! We Belly you!

[John]

Or uproot 100s of thousands to build a white elefant dam that doesn't prevent flooding as advertised and is silting up to such a degree that it is likely not going to be there in fifty years.

[Barely Suppressed Rage]

I loved Christopher Lee as Johnny Depp's dad in Charlie and the Chocolate Factory. He was good as Count Dooku and Saruman also.

I had no idea he was a member of Congress, though.

[The Real Truth]

This thread will make me be very mean to my Chinese girlfriend tonight.

[????? ??????]

Thanks