Reason Morning Links: Mobsters, Mercenaries, Milk

• 127 people are charged in a massive anti-Mafia sweep.
• Obama taps Jeff Immelt, CEO of his longtime ally General Electric, to head his Council of Jobs and Competitiveness.
• South Korea agrees to talks with North Korea, fights pirates from Somalia.
• Blackwater founder Erik Prince wants a foothold in Somalia too.
• A political spying scandal in the U.K. takes a strange turn.
• A farmer challenges Canada's raw milk regulations.
• Policymakers ponder allowing states to go bankrupt.

Comments

[Enjoy Every Sandwich]

Obama taps Jeff Immelt, CEO of his longtime ally General Electric, to head his Council of Jobs and Competitiveness

Gee, no conflict of interest there, eh?

[Chilling]

"[W]e are going through more than a cycle. The global economy, and capitalism, will be 'reset' in several important ways.

"The interaction between government and business will change forever. In a reset economy, the government will be a regulator; and also an industry policy champion, a financier, and a key partner."

[Chilling]

(In other words, fascism.)

[Devil Inchoate]

GE: The For-Profit Arm of the Obama Administration

[CaptainSmartass]

Fascism has nothing to do with collusion between big business and government.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fascism
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporatocracy

[Colonel_Angus]

You know, all these categories of statism just blur together. Leave it to academians to debate the minor distinctions, but the term fascism works fine for me. People generally get the idea.

[Chilling]

Fascism is the end result, the goal. We're not there yet.
Two steps forward, one step back...

[cynical]

Corporatism is different from corporatocracy, in the same way that the Anglican church is different from a theocracy.

[CoyoteBlue]

So they are straight up going for the whole in-your-face corporatism.

You know who else did that?

L?zaro C?rdenas

[Benito Mussolini]

I would like to subscribe to Mr. Immelt's newsletter. (Does this count as a Godwin?)

[Chilling]

"I have stated repeatedly that the trend in this country is toward a fascist system with communist slogans. But what all of today's pressure groups are busy evading is the fact that neither business nor labor nor anyone else, except the ruling clique, gains anything under fascism or communism or any form of statism?that all become victims of an impartial, egalitarian destruction."
-Ayn Rand

[Restoras]

Does not count.

[Jeff Immelt]

I love you, Benito!

[Nick]

That's the most incendiary rhetoric I've heard in a while.

[Pro Libertate]

Um, no.

[BakedPenguin]

"The interaction between government and business will change forever. In a reset economy, the government will be a regulator; and also an industry policy champion, a financier, and a key partner."

Wow, this administration is fucking determined to repeat Japan's "Lost Decade" at any cost.

[Tim]

"Sovietska industry is buildink more traktors!"

[Jeff Immelt]

In USSA, tractor builds you!

[Rich]

"My hope is that the council will be ... a catalyst for action on jobs and competitiveness."

A catalyst may be an inhibitor, is not changed by the reaction, and can be used over and over.

[Jeff Immelt]

La revolucion nos ha hecho justicia, finalmente!

[VoteMuslimNoPork]

I love how the article doesn't even mention the potential conflict of interest ... it only focuses on how GM's stock price has slid.

[Colonel_Angus]

Council of Jobs and Competitiveness =
Rent seeking, protectionism, and government price fixing.

[tkwelge]

Let's see here, according to a recent slideshow on CNBC, GE is the most owned stock on capitol hill. GE capital received 18 billion from the fed when it purchased that much in toxic debt from the company. GE manufactures and finances the production of energy saving appliances as well as significant amounts of other "green" tech, so they would be the biggest beneficiary of any "green" legislation. GE also used to own NBC and still own a large share (Comcast now owns 51% of the company). GE also spent more on lobbying than any other company in 2010!

WHy do we never hear about the evils of GE when we hear about the Kochs, Fox News, and Halliburton ENDLESSLY!?!?!

[Rich]

It would be difficult to get a bill through Congress ... because of fears that even talk of such a law could make the states' problems worse.

Sheesh, Jesse, SHUT UP!

[Lost_In_Translation]

Let the states go bankrupt because the alternative (crushing their own competitiveness is worse).

Wait, I live in Texas where we can balance budgets. Nevermind, don't allow states to go bankrupt so we can gain the headquarters of a whole bunch of companies.

[Restoras]

Your northern borders are about to be put under siege.

[cynical]

Are there nukes in Texas? All they need is to seize control of the facilities and get them under state government control.

[Mo]

A $30 B budget shortfall is balanced? That does a lot to explain the economic policies of Bush and LBJ.

[R C Dean]

A $30 B budget shortfall is balanced?

The $30B number is fictional, intended to manage expectations and make our rulers look even more heroic (and, ahem, Presidential) when they bring in a balanced budget.

The real shortfall is probably closer to $10B. Maybe $15B.

[Law Student]

Our shortfall certainly isn't $30B but it is much higher than that cocksucker Perry was pretending it was.

I have a simple solution: legalize gambling and stop sending billions in tax revenue to LA, OK and NM. Of course cocksucker Perry would have to stop taking hundreds of thousands of dollars from the casinos in those states and we can't have that can we?

[Spur]

What you got against Los Angeles?

[DesigNate]

It's not $30B, but the legislature is Constitutionally compelled to balance it, even if the shortfall was that high.

[Johnny Longtorso]

New paper: Cosmic rays contribute 40% to global warming

[Climate theologist]

All the more reason to live in huts. We can only control 60%! We're boiling in our own skin, people!

[MNG]

Well cosmic rays did wonders for the Fantastic Four.

[SugarFree]

But look what they did to the U-Foes.

[Restoras]

Oh great. Can't wait to see what stupidness the EPA comes out with to regulate something else they have no control over.

[sage]

This just proves the Sun is an evil corporashun polluting the earth and polishing its giant monocle.

[Brett L]

We could just drop a giant x-ray emitting bomb in the upper atmosphere. Ooh, or a satellite with boom that has a constant x-ray source in a polar orbit. What could possibly go wrong?

[cynical]

I think we can blame this one on the religious right instead of corporashuns -- maybe if the Aztecs hadn't sacrificed so many people, the gods would have allowed the sun to be destroyed and saved the climate from change.

[Old Mexican]

But... But.... But that still leaves 60% that's OUR fault! Right?

... right???

[Chinny Chin Chin]

Interesting, especially given Indian researchers' involvement in the Himalayan glacier kerfuffle.

Will the included publications in the next IPCC report be more reflective of the diversity of world's population? Or will it continue to be overwhelmingly Western and white? This inquiring mind wants to know...

[Pro Libertate]

Huh. So what if Betelgeuse goes (well, went, if we're talking about effects here in the near term) supernova? I know that it would be a nonlethal event, given the distance (over 600 light years from Earth), but wouldn't we get some increase in cosmic rays then?

[Brett L]

I think you started an internet meme.

[Pro Libertate]

I mentioned it because I'd read something speculating that it was ready to blow, any millennia now.

[Joan Rivers]

As am I.

[JimBob]

L_I_T: Dude, I'm in Austin, and all I'm hearing about lately is a $25 billion shortfall. We have the "rainy day" fund (somehow, it hasn't been raided by previous legislatures for non-emergency purposes), but we're still having to dip into our "oh shit" money to cover the shortfall.

So I'm not entirely sure Texas knows how to balance a budget any more.

[JimBob]

Dammit, I meant for this to be a reply to Lost_In_Translation's comment...

[Lost_In_Translation]

The 25 billion dollar shortfall assumes 3 things.

1. There will be no budget cuts
2. Revenue will fall some absurd percentage.
3. Revenue to balance the budget will continue to be put away in the rainy day fund.

As you can imagine, reality puts Texas much closer to a balanced budget.

[CoyoteBlue]

The Bernanke has the printing presses working day and night to purchase all the munis - fear not peasants - ALL IS WELL!

[Jerry]

And he's buying them from that assclown Bill Gross of PIMCO, who already profited hugely from the GM bailout.

[Restoras]

I don't think being smarter than The Ben Bernanke, and making a shitload of money as a result, really qualifies Bill as the assclown.

Now, The Ben Benanke on the other hand...

[Montani Semper Liberi]

I'm surprised there are even 127 people still in the Mafia.

[-]

The NFL has way more than 127 people.

[Mafia Spokesperson]

This is the 21st century. We use mostly robots now.

[MNG]

Naw, they outsource most of their work to Latino gangs willing to work for less.

[Mafia Spokesperson]

I thought that's what I said.

[IRS Agent]

We are the true Mafia. The rest of you are amateurs.

[Dan Marino's Knee]

Damn I read this as a response to the NFL comment. Would be way more cool if the NFL used mostly robots instead of just a few like Chad Hennebot, someday...

[Tony Soprano]

There's no such thing as the Mafia!

[Ghost of Pussy]

Bite me, Tony.

[cynical]

I sort of figured they all joined the police force. It would explain a lot.

[Cecil]

The police are actually just eliminating competitors.

[BakedPenguin]

Policymakers ponder allowing states to go bankrupt.

I'll believe it when I see it. If GM is "too big to fail," then California is, too.

[Rich]

I'm pretty sure it's a demo to ease China into allowing the US to go bankrupt.

[MNG]

South Koreans fighting Somali pirates sounds like some kind of comedy skit to me....

[Pontius Pirate]

Arrrr, yer me Seoul matey now!

[MNG]

Ok, that was good

[MNG]

10 Greatest Composers of All Time?

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01.....=1&hp;

[The Ghost of Edgard Varese]

The present-day composer refuses to die.

[Pro Libertate]

Ah, Bach.

[Mr. FIFY]

J.S, or P.D.Q.?

http://www.schickele.com/scrapbook.htm

[Pro Libertate]

Either. I was quoting Radar from M*A*S*H.

[Trespassers W]

That's highly significant.

[Pro Libertate]

Precisely.

[EscapedWestOfTheBigMuddy]

Who was quoting Charles, wasn't he?

[Kanye West]

Yo, Bach, I'm really happy for you, and Imma let you finish, but Beyonce is the greatest composer of all time. OF ALL TIME!

[sage]

That really never gets old. Seriously.

[Nancy Pelosi]

What about ... Are you serious?

[Nick]

Tchaikovsky's still alive?!

[In Our Hearts]

T.S.C.
H.A.I.
K.O.W.
S.K.Y.

Yay, Tschaikowsky!

[anarch]

But who ranks higher? They may be tied as composers but not as people. Though Verdi had an ornery side, he was a decent man, an Italian patriot and the founder of a retirement home for musicians still in operation in Milan. Wagner was an anti-Semitic, egomaniacal jerk who transcended himself in his art. So Verdi is No. 8 and Wagner No. 9.

Wait'll they unearth some dirt (can dirt be unearthed?) on JS Bach.

[BakedPenguin]

I like Twain discussing Wagner - "[his] music isn't as bad as it sounds."

[Dagny T.]

Ha. I began the list thinking: I bet they snub Wagner & Puccini (my favs) just for being opera guys.

[SugarFree]

Sweet Jesus, could you be more Canadian.

[Dagny T.]

If I were really Canadian, I would have drummed up a Chilliwack anecdote re. the raw milk regulations. Except nothing ever happens in Chilliwack.

[generic Brand]

Except nothing ever happens in Chilliwack.

Doesn't that count as a Chilliwack anecdote?

And you will never be forgiven for unleashing Bieber Fieber on us. Sure, American capitalism nurtured him, but you spawned him.

[Ted S.]

What do you have against Chilliwack?

[BakedPenguin]

And if they're going to bring in their morality as an additional factor, I'm surprised Vivaldi (who I didn't see in my skim through the article) didn't get a nod. He created an orchestra from orphaned, disfigured children.

Of course he was a priest, so it's 50/50 he was doing other things with them as well...

[Zeb]

I think that back then they fucked nuns.

[BakedPenguin]

Good point. It was a simpler time.

[Dagny T.]

I was surprised and pleased at the inclusion of Bartok. One of the 20th century guys who made music you actually enjoyed listening to.

[Philip Glass]

You take that back!

[bleep-bork-doop-doop-plonk]

[Dagny T.]

I'm just glad Schoenberg's atonal ass didn't make the cut.

[BakedPenguin]

*cough* Vaughn Williams, Elgar *cough*

Though I admit they might not be of Bartok's stature in the music world, I'd rather listen to them before Bartok. I couldn't agree more about Schoenberg.

Tangentially related to music and Canada, a BC band once named themselves Chilliwack. However, they might be harder to listen to than Schoenberg.

[Ted S.]

Tangentially related to music and Canada, Ralph [sic] Vaughn Williams wrote the score for 49th Parallel, which I mentioned here a few days back.

[CE]

I was surprised and pleased at the inclusion of Bartok. One of the 20th century guys who made music you actually enjoyed listening to.

Right up there with Phil Collins.

[hmm]

Obama taps Jeff Immelt, CEO of his longtime ally General Electric, to head his Council of Jobs and Competitiveness.

Immelt's first suggestion? Suck enough government cock so your corporation pays no taxes.

[Restoras]

Don't forgot lots of favorable regulations to artificially raise barriers to entry and reduce competition. And tariffs, lots of protective tariffs.

[DJF]

Why would GE want tariffs? They are outsourcing much of their work to places like China so they would not want their goods taxed when they enter the USA. GE is an international corporation, its against tariffs.

[hmm]

Tariffs can serve as an entry barrier. A barrier that large corporations can often negotiate with little or no problem. Especially when you have Presidential cock in your mouth.

Monika wouldn't have paid any tariffs.

[Lord Humungus]

in the electronics hobby world, GE stands for "Garbage Enclosed"

[Old Mexican]

Obama taps Jeff Immelt, CEO of his longtime ally General Electric, to head his Council of Jobs and Competitiveness.

Fascism
Like the corners of my mind
Rent-seeking lovely fascism
Is the way we're now

[Smith & Wesson Cruise Lines]

Exciting announcement for immediate release -
>S&W Cruise Lines is please to announce bookings available for our Somali Pirate Expedition spring cruise. Bring your heavy weapons & enjoy S&W's Somali cruise itinerary to include: Baiting priates, Passenger weapons exercises (towed targets available), Engaging illegal vessels, Open fire periods, Targeting outboard engines, Subduing boarders, Maritime body disposal, and much more!
>Tell your friends & family. 1000 rounds free for the first 50 bookings!

[Kim]

If there's AYCE dog in the buffet, sign me up!

[Barney Frank]

Pirates? Oooh, you can use me as bait!

[BakedPenguin]

Marge: "Ooooh! Does that earring mean you're a pirate?"
Pirate: "Kinda..."

[waffles]

Sounds great! Too bad you'd have to be insane to insure a venture like that. But still,

[Restoras]

Are private sniper lessons from SEALs available, with the Barrett .50 sniper rifle?

[cynical]

Man: The Deadliest Catch

[Nick]

The local news is panting heavily about Obama's visit to GE (in Schenectady, NY) today. He will fly in at Noon, go to GE at 1, and fly out at 2. My reaction to my wife was, "What a waste of fuel. Ever hear of a conference call?" to which she replied, "How early do you think they'll redirect traffic. He better not impact my commute."

Apparently, Obama will eat a disgusting sounding lunch at a local business. The guy was so excited. I took note of his establishment so I know never to eat there. The local anchor noted that Michelle will be happy because the meal is healthy.

[Kim]

Obama will eat a disgusting sounding lunch at a local business.

Details, please.

[Nick]

Some pistachio salmon wrap thing where every ingredient sounded OK but the combination sounded like shit. I just checked the local news site again. Turns out that place just wants him to eat there and there is no certainty that he will. I'm still avoiding the place because of the owner that I wanted to punch.

[Rich]

every ingredient sounded OK but the combination sounded like shit. ... [T]hat place just wants him to eat there

Now *that's* funnily appropriate! Presumably the place came up with a good name for the combination: if not, I suggest the "China Choker".

[Slut Bunwalla]

How do you know the owner isn't just trying to get Obama to eat there so he can poison him?

[anarch, on cue]

I took note of his establishment so I know never to eat there.

Racist.

[Nick]

The guy was white. He wore wristbands, spiky hair, and I think eyeliner. Very punchable but not a hate crime as I didn't get a gay vibe, just a douche vibe.

[anarch]

Apparently, Obama will eat a disgusting sounding lunch at a local business. The guy was so excited. I took note of his establishment so I know never to eat there.

My faith in humanity is restored when I find my cynicism foundering on someone's innocent goodwill.

[Nick]

I'm avoiding the serving douchebag, not the douchebag being served.

[Vermont Gun Owner]

What a waste of fuel. Ever hear of a conference call?

He's got to convince GE to go green! For the environment! And for green jobs!

[Old Mexican]

Policymakers ponder allowing states to go bankrupt.

States roasting on an open fire,
Bankruptcy nipping on their nose.
Calls for action being sung by a choir,
and folks dressing up for a showdown.

Everybody knows a turkey or two,
help'em to overcome default,
tiny Govs with their eyes all aglow,
extending palms for their bailouts.

[Rich]

Wow, OM, you're waxing awfully very poetic today. Everything OK?

[Slut Bunwalla]

They know that Obama's on his way
He's loaded lots of regs and goodies in his plane
And every union rep is going to spy
To see if Democrats really know how to bribe

[Bucky]

+++++

[Old Mexican]

South Korea agrees to talks with North Korea, fights pirates from Somalia...

... And gets the girl at the end.

[Old Mexican]

Blackwater founder Erik Prince wants a foothold in Somalia too.

His story to be immortalized in the Silver Screen by Stallone [who else?].

[Britt]

I thought The Expendables was like Blackwater.

Funny troll encounter, on another site I frequent. Troll claimed that Blackwater, which has less then 200 employees, an APC, some SUVs, and a boat was an organization more powerful then the United States government. It's why I never say a troll here has said the dumbest thing ever, because this guy won the prize for the rest of history.

[Upgrayyed]

[whoe else?] Putin.

[Old Mexican]

A farmer challenges Canada's raw milk regulations.

Determined cows are marching towards the capital as we speak...

[Determined Cows]

Eat Mor Chikin!

[Kreel Sarloo]

Actually, according to TFA, the farmer is challenging British Columbia's raw milk regulations, not Canada's.

While British Columbia is in Canada, it is not actually Canada.

If the BC Superior Court finds in her favor, it will have absolutely zero effect on, say, Manitoba's or Ontario's raw milk regulations.

[hmm]

fuckin' Canadians

[Ms. Radoo]

I find it so off-putting when news site link to stories on other news sites. I came HERE for the news. Why don't you report it here?

[Matt Drudge]

I find that annoying as well.

[Rhayader]

I've never really thought of Reason as a "news site". They do these quick link dumps at least once a day, it's no biggie.

[hmm]

No gnus is good gnus with Gary gnu.

[waffles]

H&R is not a news site. It's a bliggity blaggity blog for news, views, and abuse. By bitching about my favorite part, the breakfast links, you are beggin for the 'buse.

[Brett L]

You're using it wrong. This is actually a threadjack sink to keep their actual news and commentary threads from being jacked every time. Any other use taken from the Morning Links is pure bonus.

[President Clinton]

I came HERE for the news.

Me too.

[BakedPenguin]

Turn on the News.

[Only place I go for news]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v.....p;ob=av3em

[Only place I go for news]

The Best News

[Only place I go for news]

god damn that was hard. back to lurking for me...

[Brett L]

"Blackwater founder Erik Prince wants a foothold in Somalia too."

I see a whole Apocalypse Now thing going down with this guy.

[TrickyVic]

If any Somalis he trains ends up being a terrorist, then he has supplied more support to terrorist than many of the people being tried in US courts.

Will he end up in the prison at Gitmo?

[Barely Suppressed Rage]

Yet another cop who considers himself above the law.

Not only does he have an affair with the lawyer's wife, he torches his own car so he can use the insurance proceeds to buy an Audi convertible - and then sets up the lawyer for the arson. The cop does whatever he can to totally fuck with this guy's life. First he screws the guy's wife, then he tries to get the guy convicted of a crime.

Must be more of that new professionalism.

[Restoras]

I really hope there is a dedicated level of Hell for dirty cops.

[Atheist]

Me too. Fuck.

[Spartacus]

He will probably get promoted to commander of the local SWAT unit, as soon as he shoots a few dogs to complete his certification.

[Slut Bunwalla]

"I mean, what's your encore? Do you, like, anally rape my mother while pouring sugar in my gas tank?"

[sloopyinca]

Jesus, Dante. You're such a pussy.

[DesigNate]

Holy Fuck!

[hmm]

Something Reason's buddy John Stagliano produced. It has some pretty big flaws in it and seems more tinfoil hat than anything.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v.....r_embedded

[hmm]

executive produced...

[hmm]

Should add it's a cartoon and totally SFW or kittens.

[Montani Semper Liberi]

New Obama policy forces culinary school to close.

As a for-profit institution, CEC has faced increasing pressure from the Obama administration and Senate Democrats in the past year. A proposed "gainful employment" rule from the Department of Education would deny federal funding to schools with graduates facing high proportions of debt related to their expected salaries.

Mr. Miller cited the "gainful employment" rule as a major factor in CEC's decision to close the Pittsburgh school, and he predicted that it would soon affect other for-profit schools in the area.

[Barely Suppressed Rage]

A proposed "gainful employment" rule from the Department of Education would deny federal funding to schools with graduates facing high proportions of debt related to their expected salaries.

Using this criteria, many (if not most) law schools would have to shut down as well.

[Montani Semper Liberi]

Actually, I wouldn't have much of a problem with this policy if they would apply the same rules to everyone. But we all know that the "non-profit" colleges and universities won't be subject to this rule. It's just another Democrat payback to one of their big support groups.

[Brett L]

Sure. Can't have all those Ed.D. programs collapsing. Pretty soon all that would be left would be the B-schools and the engineering departments.

[Spartacus]

Nursing schools are going gangbusters now, so they will be left too. And will probably take over the few colleges that they haven't already.

[waffles]

That's why they're closing!? The local NPR never mentioned the reason, just said it's shutting down. I thought it was really strange because they were still running advertisements as of last week.

[Enjoy Every Sandwich]

This is what happens to people who take the King's shilling: the King dry-humps you.

[James Ard]

My question is: did Phoenix University get the shaft after contributing those millions to Obama, or do they get some sort of exemption?

[Johnny Rocketts]

LOL, looks like the Feds have a wee bit too much spare time on their hands.

http://www.anon-tools.edu.tc

[P Brooks]

Too bad you'd have to be insane to insure a venture like that. But still,

Some people consider arming themselves to be a form of self-insurance.

[Brett L]

Bin Laden demands French withdraw from Afghanistan

"The al-Qaida leader questioned why the French would consider the resistance against Nazi German troops occupying their nation in World War II to be heroic while the fight against French and other foreign troops in Afghanistan is labeled terrorism."

Perhaps because the Resistance was like Woodstock, everybody was part of it after the fact.

I eagerly await the French surrender this afternoon.

[J_L_B]

Bin Laden also challenged whether the state of France's economy would allow it to wage a successful fight against al-Qaida.

"The size of your debts and the weakness of your budget will not allow you to open a new front," he said.

How long before the public workers' union and the SEIU protest in front of his house.

[BG]

The al-Qaida leader questioned why the French would consider the resistance against Nazi German troops occupying their nation in World War II to be heroic while the fight against French and other foreign troops in Afghanistan is labeled terrorism.

Because the French weren't the aggressors in World War 2, but the Taliban/Al-Qaeda alliance are the aggressors in this war.

Also, the NATO-led coalition is neither imposing a totalitarian regime nor committing genocide.

[Old Mexican]

Re: BG,

Because the French weren't the aggressors in World War 2

Yes, they were - they declared war on Germany, not the other way around. They simply got the worst part of the fight, but they started it.

[...] but the Taliban/Al-Qaeda alliance are the aggressors in this war.

Indeed, in the same way the Mujahideen were the aggressors during the occupation by the U.S.S.R.

Also, the NATO-led coalition is neither imposing a totalitarian regime nor committing genocide.

Not "totalitarian" - just corrupt:
http://www.csmonitor.com/World.....an-Taliban

As for "genocide", depends on the baseline one uses, I fancy:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/news.....statistics

[BG]

Yes, they were - they declared war on Germany, not the other way around. They simply got the worst part of the fight, but they started it.

Yes, the French and British declared war on Germany after Nazi aggression against Poland. Responding with force against Nazi aggressors on behalf of their victims is not aggression.

Indeed, in the same way the Mujahideen were the aggressors during the occupation by the U.S.S.R.

Do I have to go over this again? Al-Qaeda waged a terrorist war of aggression against the US for years culminating in the 9/11 attacks. The Taliban harbored terrorist training camps and refused to shut them down even after 9/11. The US, along with its allies, went into Afghanistan in self-defense.

Not "totalitarian" - just corrupt:

Well, it is not as if the US brought warlords to Afghanistan or told Afghan officials to be corrupt; that is all indigenous stuff. At any rate though, if your main concern is individual freedom a corrupt leader like Karzai is highly preferable to a totalitarian regime.

As for "genocide", depends on the baseline one uses, I fancy:

Genocide (in the sense that it is commonly used) requires intent kill people merely because of their race/ethnicity ? and not as an act of war. If a military attacks an enemy military target, but accidentally kills nearby civilians also, that does not count as genocide. Also, as the article you link to indicates, the Taliban are responsible for the vast majority of Afghan civilian casualties.

[Old Mexican]

Re: BG,

Yes, the French and British declared war on Germany after Nazi aggression against Poland.

So you were wrong, BG. Germany was an aggressor against Poland, not France. If you want to misconstrue the facts, fine - just say so. France declared war on Germany, not the other way around. Ergo, France was the aggressor.

Al-Qaeda waged a terrorist war of aggression against the US for years culminating in the 9/11 attacks. The Taliban harbored terrorist training camps and refused to shut them down even after 9/11. The US, along with its allies, went into Afghanistan in self-defense.

Right. My neighbor comes into my house looking for by brother, who threw a stone at his car, and my neighbor proceeds to take over my house, my wife and my ids - all in the name of "self defense."

It wasn't self defense, BG. "Self defense" means DEFENDING YOURSELF from AGGRESSION DURING THE FACT, not afterwards.

Well, it is not as if the US brought warlords to Afghanistan or told Afghan officials to be corrupt[...]

Who cares? They were not in power BEFORE. NOW they are, all thanks to the US and NATO.

Genocide (in the sense that it is commonly used) requires intent kill people merely because of their race/ethnicity ? and not as an act of war.

Genocide means killing a whole kind of people, be it a race, or ethnicity or a NATION. Comes from the Greek "genos", meaning stock, kind, race, birth, origin.

Like I just showed, "genocide" seems to depend mostly on who does the killing...

Also, as the article you link to indicates, the Taliban are responsible for the vast majority of Afghan civilian casualties.

Of course they are, but you don't seem to get the point: It is the INTERVENTION by the US that generates the killing. No US intervention, no killings. The Taliban may be terrible, awful tyrants, but there are MORE dead Afghanis because of US intervention, not despite of it.

[BG]

So you were wrong, BG. Germany was an aggressor against Poland, not France. If you want to misconstrue the facts, fine - just say so. France declared war on Germany, not the other way around. Ergo, France was the aggressor.
We may be getting into semantics with the word "aggressor". The way I (and most people) use the term, it does not include coming to the aid of a victim by using force against the aggressor. For example, I would not call the people who tackled Jared Loughner to stop him from shooting more people "aggressors" ? even if they had been off to the side somewhere and not personally threatened by his rampage.
My real point is that France was morally justified in going to war with Germany in 1939, but Al-Qaeda was not morally justified in carrying out the 9/11 attacks or other attacks.
Right. My neighbor comes into my house looking for by brother, who threw a stone at his car, and my neighbor proceeds to take over my house, my wife and my ids - all in the name of "self defense."
It wasn't self defense, BG. "Self defense" means DEFENDING YOURSELF from AGGRESSION DURING THE FACT, not afterwards.
False analogy. The 9/11 attacks were not intended as a one-off thing, they were part of a terrorist campaign that Al-Qaeda planned to continue. They had training camps in Afghanistan in which future terrorists could have been trained and sent out on further missions. Also, the US isn't "taking over" individuals, and it is not running most of Afghanistan's internal affairs. However, the US is making sure Al Qaeda and the Taliban can not reestablish themselves in Afghanistan the way they were before 9/11 (and rightfully so).
Of course they are, but you don't seem to get the point: It is the INTERVENTION by the US that generates the killing. No US intervention, no killings. The Taliban may be terrible, awful tyrants, but there are MORE dead Afghanis because of US intervention, not despite of it.
Well, not exactly "no killings". The Taliban executed people for a variety of victimless crimes and there was a low-intensity civil war in Afghanistan before October, 2001. But at any rate, that doesn't negate my view that this is a just war on the part of the US/NATO. If the US adopted a policy of not responding to attacks if that response involves people dying, it would be open season on the US.
This whole thing started when I made my initial comment showing why fighting against the US-led coalition in Afghanistan is not even close morally to fighting against the Nazis in Europe. Nothing you said refutes the distinctions I pointed out in my 10:37 comment.
The US responded to the 9/11 atrocity (and others), while the Nazis launched unprovoked aggression. The US is not imposing fascism, while the Nazis did. Also, call me crazy, but I think perpetrating the holocaust versus not doing anything remotely like that has some relevance here.
If Afghans want to end the war sooner, they should help us try to defeat the Taliban sooner (as many are); or at least help us get them to agree to a peace deal where they aren't put back in power. If they are concerned about corruption or warlords they should take it up with their elected officials. And if they think some elected officials got into office through fraud, they should take it up with the UN which was supposed to monitor all that stuff.

[BG]

I'll have to hit preview next time, but the comments I am replying to are in italics.

[R C Dean]

The French invaded Poland? Who knew?

[BG]

Are you responding to Old Mexican's comment or mine?

[generic Brand]

"The al-Qaida leader questioned why the French would consider the resistance against Nazi German troops occupying their nation in World War II to be heroic while the fight against French and other foreign troops in Afghanistan is labeled terrorism."

I guess I fell asleep in history class when they discussed the "French resistance" in World War 2. I couldn't have had my head down for more than 3 minutes though.

[Brett L]

It was mostly a Hollywood plot device to simultaneously put a hot woman in danger from the evil Nazis and give the American/Brit infiltrator a love interest, however, the French liked the idea so much that pretty much every Frenchman alive who wasn't directly part of the Vichy claimed to have been a part of it.

[affenkopf]

Blackwater will hopefully meet the same fate other groups who wanted to impose a government on Somalia have.

[Sin tax]

Is what your sentence is.

[Tim]

In Vermont, newly empowered elite wine sippers gain the upper hand over beer swilling proles.

http://www.burlingtonfreepress.....state-land

[Vermont Gun Owner]

I was disappointed in the lack of alcohol referenced in the article.

[Old Mexican]

http://www.lewrockwell.com/blo.....more-75952

"What I would not allow happen to my child, as a Libertarian" - Stephan Kinsella, lewrockwell.com

Here are some things I will never allow to happen to my son: he will not:

- be forced to say the pledge of allegiance or attend a school that requires this;
- be punished for not getting an A;
- be conscripted by the state to fight in its wars;
- be subjected to pro-state, pro-environmentalist propaganda without his dad giving him regular anti-propaganda inoculations at home;
- be forced to recycle at home;
- be spanked or otherwise punished;
- be required to vote (in fact he will be told that it's a waste of time);
- be taught that it's his duty to pay taxes;
- be taught that aggression in any form, private or public, is okay;
- be made to feel he has an obligation to "give something back" to "society";
- be forced to attend a government school if at all possible;
- be talked down to just because he's a child;
- ever have to pay for his own books;
- be unaware of the Austrian and libertarian intellectual traditions;
- be made to feel his parents can't wait for him to grow up and get out of the house;
- be made to feel like he is unwanted or a burden;
- be allowed to object to at least 10 kisses a day from Mommy and Daddy;
- be treated like less than a full human with rights and dignity just because he is "under age."

I agree with everything, especially with not imposing the very American tradition of making my kids leave the house when they turn 18.

[Nick]

He will not: be spanked or otherwise punished? I call Shittyparent on this guy.

Also, why shouldn't he pay for his own books?

[R C Dean]

be spanked or otherwise punished;

Really? I can see saying no corporal punishment, but no punishment at all, of any kind, for anything, ever? Not even a "time out"? Not even being grounded? Not even having to fork over his allowance or work off the damage when he kicks in the bathroom door to administer a beatdown to his brother*?

*Purely hypothetical example. Honest.

[Atanarjuat]

OTOH, being on the other side of the door while your younger brother impotently knocks holes in it, but can't get through results in much hilarity.

[Atanarjuat]

(For the record I was holding it half closed while trying to control my laughter, not cowering behind a locked door like a wimp.)

[Clich? Bandit]

HOLY CRAP!!! RC You are my older brother?

[Barely Suppressed Rage]

What's so libertarian about "he won't ever have to pay for his own books"?

[hmm]

Anarchists are cute. Especially the educated ones.

[CE]

Anarchists are cute.

Thanks.

Especially the educated ones.

Thanks again.

[generic Brand]

I agree with everything, especially with not imposing the very American tradition of making my kids leave the house when they turn 18.

My parents didn't force me out of the house at 18, but they did make me start to pay for room and board as a full member of society. I think that's good parenting, as it starts preparing you for a budget in life, while not bankrupting you as badly as moving out would.

[Atanarjuat]

...furthermore, he will not be allowed to:

-relax for 10 minutes without hearing an anti-government rant

Geez, the guy sounds just like a liberal who brainwashes his kid into constantly feeling guilty about his "white privelege" and a whole host of other crap. What's wrong with recycling? One of the few money-making ventures for an under 10 kid is picking up cans to take to the recycling place and get some spending money. It's pretty libertarian if you ask me.

That being said, there is a fair amount of non-libertarian "brainwashing" going on already in my 4-year-old's life (for things like environmentalism) that I do feel the need to tone down a bit. Making my kid feel guilty for something that is not directly his fault, well, that ain't gonna happen.

[Spoonman.]

Not punishing his kid, ever, at all, for any reason? Sounds like taking it a bit far...

[heller]

The greatest piece by the greatest composer, played by the greatest cellist

[Nick]

I'll raise.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dh3NsZVOjq4

[generic Brand]

I don't know, some of those guys are just too over-the-top when they play the piano. I will allow that they're getting into what they're playing, but at a certain point it just becomes theatrical and no longer about the music.

Also, re-raise.

[Nick]

Sounded better than the actual Beatles. (ducks as Episiarch throws shit...)

[Nick]

I'll see your Hey Jude, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N9sGd-JLvNA, and call. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BcL---4xQYA

There's enough dead guys there to own the fucking list.

[heller]

Pffft, that doesn't come close.

[heller]

The greatest piece by the greatest composer, played by the greatest cellist

[Mr. FIFY]

Dig this bit o' stoopid:

But, the most disgraceful part of the whole protest rally was the fact that in the area of the State House plaza where the people were gathered, stands a statue of America's first president, George Washington, and the South Carolina NAACP, which organized the rally, went so far at to construct a plywood box, cover it with black cloth, and place it around the statue so the statue was out of sight of the rally attendees. What kind of mindless, hateful action was this?

http://www.dakotavoice.com/201.....mlk-rally/

[Spoonman.]

That certainly seems...tone-deaf. Perhaps they wanted to make sure it didn't get damaged? Weird.

[Barely Suppressed Rage]

Well, Washington was a slave owner.

And maybe they were confused by people calling him the "Father of the Country." Who's daddy is he? Who's your baby daddy?

RRRRRAAAAAAAAAAAciiisssstt....

[For the sake of simplicity:]

...in order to stop re-opening the scab of racism:

Fuck the NAACP.

[NAACP]

Fuck you, Whitey!

[NBPP]

That's OUR line! You fuckers at the NAACP have too many crackers workin' for you!

[CE]

My wife switched us to raw milk this year. I figured we would be dead or violently ill by now, but so far so good, and it actually tastes better than the cooked stuff.