Open Thread: Reactions to Tucson Memorial Service

In a service to honor the victims of the Arizona shooting, President Barack Obama shared the nation's collective grief on Wednesday and offered prayers for healing for those who lost loved ones and to those injured.

"I have come here tonight as an American who, like all Americans, kneels to pray with you today and will stand by you tomorrow," Obama said at the memorial service, held at the University of Arizona's McKale Center. "There is nothing I can say that will fill the sudden hole torn in your hearts. But know this: the hopes of a nation are here tonight. We mourn with you for the fallen. We join you in your grief. And we add our faith to yours that Rep. Gabrielle Giffords and the other living victims of this tragedy pull through."

More here.

Full text of President Obama's remarks.

Reason on the Arizona shooting tragedy.

Comments

[barfman]

*barf*

[Suki]

tl;dw

[JoshINHB]

Did you mean TL;DR?

[Heller's my bitch]

too little/didn't work?

[Suki]

too long; didn't watch

[Almanian]

What Suki said.

Also, what barfman said.

Morning, Reason!

[anarch]

as an American who, like all Americans, kneels to pray

Nuh-uh.

Gotta tone down that inflammatory rhetoric, Chief.

[CalebT]

Kenyan chief?

[anarch]

Grand Kenyon, if you please.

[Veeck]

That's Grand Kenyon of Gambier.

[Heroic Mulatto]

In a service to honor the victims of the Arizona shooting, President Barack Obama shared the nation's collective grief on Wednesday and offered prayers for healing for those who lost loved ones and to those injured.

Great, now he thinks he's the pontifex maximus of Republic.

[Hazel Meade]

Worked for Octavian.

[Federal Dog]

"Great, now he thinks he's the pontifex maximus of Republic."

This is old news. This is the same psychology that claimed that putting him in office would cause the seas to recede and heal the planet.

[Slut Bunwalla]

What's this "nation's collective grief" shit anyway? Sure, the shooting was sad, but I hardly think most of the nation is actually grieving.

[Michael Scott]

Well, those of us with any sort of redeeming qualities are grieving. But you're a libertarian, so your response makes sense in that context.

[Karma Wilson]

I'm not grieving, but I am libertarian. You may be on to something.

I'm bummed some people I didn't know died, especially since one was a child. But I'm also bummed that two people I didn't know died on Big Mountain in a ski accident. 🙁

If my mother dies, I'll grieve.

[anarch]

Open Threat.

[CalebT]

So, there's actually going to be legislation presented that will make putting "gunsights" over congressional districts illegal?! I wonder how long it will be before the DLC realizes that their 2004 "Targeting Strategy" will get their asses thrown in Leavenworth.

[Tulpa]

Personally, I liked H&R fave Rep Peter King's proposal that guns be banned within 1000 of royalty members of Congress.

[CalebT]

Why not with 20,000 miles of any member of the government.

["Hit and Run" will be banned]

[Hugh Akston]

I assume this ban includes the Secret Service and capitol security?

[Suki]

Awesome! The surveyor's marks from Sarah's map are just fine.

Since Bob Beckel says he invented the political targeting map, is he going to be jailed?

[fish]

Yeah! But just for being Bob Beckel.

[Suki]

+1

[DanD]

For what it was--the result of an undoubtedly all-night collaboration amongst a group of highly-paid speechwriters--it was composed well and delivered in a powerful manner.

[SIV]

Weigel came twice.

[jester]

in his pants and that's what you were implying. bravo. but what about all the biblical rhetoric?

[Mr. FIFY]

"Separation of church and state" only applies to non-Democrats.

[smartass sob]

Yeah, it was a great political speech. Too bad he wasted it on a mere memorial service.

[nekoxgirl]

Agreed. He gave a good speech, didn't point fingers, I still don't like his policies but I can't fault him on this.

[Slut Bunwalla]

Yeah, he didn't point fingers, but the whole rhetoric thing had, you know, NOTHING to do with the shooting. It didn't need to be mentioned at all.

[Tulpa]

I'm changing my will to forbid any sitting presidents from speaking at any funeral or memorial service held in my name.

The worms deserve the use of my corpse more than a sack of shit like BHO.

[CalebT]

The crazy thing is that most famous victim of the attack, Giffords, ISN'T DEAD!

In sympathy for Obama, if Giffords had just been shot a little sooner, he could have gotten a chance to attend the BCS National Championship Game in Glendale. Cut the brotha some slack!

[CalebT]

...after all, he IS a fan of sports!

[Suki]

But NPR said she was dead.

[alan]

But, now he'll have to face a primary opponent whom he just praised to the high heavens.

[Michael Scott]

Yeah, like any sitting President is going to eulogize a misanthropic douchebag who died choking on a Cheeto in his mom's basement.

[Les]

Why are the unfortunate victims of this unpredictable, unavoidable violent tragedy worthy of this kind of recognition and consideration, while the unfortunate victims of this predictable, absolutely avoidable violent tragedy...

http://www.rawa.org/temp/runew.....mp;mggal=6

...are not?

Don't let people tell you they care about the poor and disenfranchised while they blow them to pieces and burn them alive on a regular basis.

[Lily]

I've never seen a memorial service that had an official slogan and T-shirts printed with the slogan.

Man, that is so low-rent.

[Tulpa]

At least they didn't have bobble-heads.

[Hugh Akston]

Hey, people LOVE those!

[Suki]

Did too! The state run media just did not show it.

[SlumpbusterAz]

Well, it was at the UofA...

[wingnutx]

Lots of memorials have theme t-shirts. The same ones that have a fundraiser car-wash to pay for the burial.

[Tom]

No, but Obama is against the war, so the mass media doesn't need to report on that anymore...you know...since it stopped the moment he got elected?

[Nun]

The speech was weird to me. Yes inspiring at times, but seemed completely inappropriate. It was like, "Let's not politicize this event... right after I'm done politicizing it."

[marlok]

His eulogies were good, but I couldn't help but notice that his speech transitioned into another campaign event. The rhetoric about transcending the divisions in our country were recycled from his presidential campaign. Is it too much to expect a leader to honor the dead and wounded and then leave the political analysis for another day?

[Tulpa]

Why the fuck is he the one giving the eulogies? He didn't even know any of the people who died, probably never even met them. He's a fucking voice actor reading from a script someone else wrote for him.

[BoscoH]

And he looks like that Ted Williams guy. Just sayin.

[Suki]

Could be same guy.

[Episiarch]

I think that Tulpa has asked the actually pertinent question here. Was there no one on his staff who was bright enough to say "this is maybe a little ghoulish?"

[Esoteric]

It didn't strike me as ghoulish at all...and I'm man enough to admit that I was looking pretty hard for any reason to accuse him of ghoulishness. (You know what was ghoulish? Those goddamn college kids going "WOOO!" every five seconds. ASU is such a fucking third tier toilet of a school.) It's pretty much what he was expected to do.

[Tulpa]

Expected by whom? Clinton didn't eulogize the Columbine shooting victims.

[Esoteric]

Yeah, but that wasn't an attack on a Congresswoman and a judge.

I know, I know, it shouldn't make a difference (especially to all of us here at Reason...let's not rehash all of the very justified "political class =/= royalty" arguments), but it just does.

[Masturbatin' Pete]

"Yeah, but that wasn't an attack on a Congresswoman and a judge."

The Congresswoman is going to live. No one even talks about the judge. He's an afterthought, as are the other victims. The only reason that this was national news for more than a day or two is that the left wanted to make political hay with it, and the press played along.

The President of the United States has no business giving a speech calling for "unity" here. We don't need presidential leadership. This shooting wasn't a national tragedy. Yeah, it's terribly sad for everyone involved, but it none of the president's business. Obama just wanted to give a speech that would make himself look good, and he did it.

[Cyto]

actually, it appeared to be the other way round. the press wanted to play politics and then the pols jumped on the bandwagon after. It is times like that when you really notice the biases of folks in the media.

[nekoxgirl]

Well maybe it will at least shut the Left down from trying to use this the same way they used the OCB.

[Timon19]

ASU is in Tempe, almost 2 hours away from Tucson.

UA is in Tucson.

[Esoteric]

My apologies to the fine students (and hot chicks) of ASU.

UA, though...you're on fucking notice.

[Timon19]

Of the two, I'd say UA is much better. Except for the hot chicks part. ASU is really, really awesome about that.

[Episiarch]

I was visiting my sister in Tucson, and I came in from Vegas on a Friday. We went down to the "strip" near UA which has a bunch of bars and restaurants to eat. That's when I noticed that there were a ton of students out, and all the girls were wearing black cocktail dresses. All of them. On a Friday...in Tucson...for no particular reason. My sister said it was because they were all from LA. I guess being from LA explains having no taste.

"Gauche" is just a state of mind.

[Heller's my bitch]

Vegas is just a state of mind.

[alan]

The very fact he is delivering a eulogy on prime time television, yeah, that's ghoulish.
They did show a little class by making sure it started at 8:36 instead of, I don't know, 8:00, 8:30, or 9:00, so it would be slightly less obvious a publicity moment.

[Dzzt the Drow]

All memorial services are ghoulish given they evolved from cannibalistic rituals. Memorials were for divvying up the meat and sharing in the heart to consume the soul. Burials were just for disposing of remains.

Well, that's my theory.

[Masturbatin' Pete]

It didn't strike you as ghoulish? Really? Then try it this way:

Let's say your mom or dad or spouse dies. Do you want a politician in desperate need to deliver a Big Speech so that he can look "presidential" to kick off his re-election campaign to parachute in and give a speech about coming together, or some shit? No, of course you don't.

Ghoulish.

[jester]

The Divided States of America: wasn't that always the big idea. United States just looked better on letterhead. 'united' is the word used to impose your will on others. In the beginning, united was a way to scare a bigger foe. The rest was accident.

[sevo]

There's a "Tucson Memorial"? What do we do for "15 Dead as Bus Plummets on Mountain Road"?
Go away.

[jester]

Check the dead driver for alcohol and impose a stricter BAC on the lawbooks anyway, just to be safe.

[Esoteric]

I really, really, really wish I could jump down Obama's throat for this speech...but I can't. It was quite excellent. The crowd was definitely weird, with its strangely inappropriate cheering, but that's not really his fault. And the speech was remarkably eloquent.

I mean, it's not like I suddenly love the guy or anything, but I can't really find fault.

[CalebT]

My thoughts exactly. The guy is smart, and he's not going to belabor the whole "Tea Party Vitriolic Rhetoric" thing. That being said, it was also very Clintonian in my opinion. All he needed was to stick his thumb up and bite his lip.

[Episiarch]

You don't find fault with a known attention whore, who didn't know anyone involved in the shooting, doing his best attention whoring at a ginned-up "memorial" that is actually a political event? Aren't you Mr. Moral Outrage?

I thought the Dems might have learned from the Wellstone rally. I guess I was wrong.

[Esoteric]

1.) I responded to you partially above.

2.) I'm willing to let go of our harsh words from Saturday, Epi. I still think your reaction was...not the way I would have handled it. But you're too smart and worthwhile of a Reasonoid for me to remain angry with you.

(This is why I'm *not* actually Mr. Moral Outrage...I can't hold onto my rage for long enough to be a real stick-up-the-ass Sullivanesque prick about it.)

[Episiarch]

I'm fine with burying the hatchet, but I still don't understand how anyone can watch Obama and not be overwhelmed with a desire to immediately change to an episode of Firefly just to wash the stench away.

He's not even that good of a speaker, because he only has the one style, and he wore that one out long ago.

[jester]

Maybe that is why W got reelected. People were excited by the newest possibility of 'what the fuck is he going to say next'. Which is why I don't understand why the Dems don't focus more on Biden's commentary. It is truly vital and exciting.

[SIV]

C'mon bury the hatchet so far you get soaked with arterial spray. It's the new "civility".

[Heller's my bitch]

pussies

[Cyto]

Hey, how did you know I put on firefly last night? I watched "jaynestown" while our griever in chief spoke. That's kinda spooky... I'm sweeping for bugs...

[Epi]

Fuck Firefly!

[Tulpa]

Why would you switch from watching our commander in chief to watch a story about a guy who everyone thought was a hero, even though in reality he was a schmuck with ulterior motives for all the seemingly good things he did?

[Esoteric]

Also, to respond a little more fully -

I wouldn't dispute for a moment that Obama is known attention whore and a schmuck through-and-through. (Is there anyone here who would? Max? Weigel, assuming he still lurks?) But it was foreordained from the moment the bodies began to hit the floor that:

a.) There was going to be a public memorial service;

b.) the President of the United States was going to have to speak. This is pretty much unprecedented in American history, with Oklahoma City and 9/11 being the nearest analogues.

I don't necessarily like those comparisons given they both were atrocities of a much greater magnitude, but gunning down a Congresswoman and a judge and a ton of bystanders is still a Big Fucking Deal to the American public right now. Whether it was President Obama, President Bush, President Clinton, or President Ron Paul, they all would have been expected to say something because this is considered a *national* tragedy. I know that's an argument that doesn't move you, due to your (healthy) contempt for our political class, but it is what it is.

[Tulpa]

Unprecedented? Do you even have a cursory knowledge of American history?

Seriously, my niece is in 4th grade and she would find what you wrote laughable.

[Esoteric]

No, it sort of is. I know what you're referring to (Presidential assassinations), but Presidents don't eulogize themselves. This is first time a Congresscritter has been gunned down on American soil. Even Leo Ryan's death wasn't quite the same.

Look, I don't want to continue this argument because it forces me into a position that makes me want to vomit -- namely, defending Obama. I'm just saying that there are expectations for Presidential decorum, and while it wasn't like Obama ABSOLUTELY HAD to speak, it also isn't strangely weird or whorish for him to have done so.

I can criticize and attack almost every other thing about this guy and his administration...which is what I would prefer to get back to doing.

[Nash]

The ghost of Robert Kennedy would like a word with you.

[Esoteric]

Tell the ghost of RFK to go back to using the IRS to audit the ghost of Nixon's mother.

[Masturbatin' Pete]

I'm just saying that there are expectations for Presidential decorum, and while it wasn't like Obama ABSOLUTELY HAD to speak, it also isn't strangely weird or whorish for him to have done so.

I agree that there are times when the president should speak, and there are times when it's optional. It's pretty safe to assume that when the president doesn't have to insert himself into an event, but does anyway, he's doing it out of political calculation.

And the facts on the ground here support that. We're heading into the 2012 election cycle, and Obama needs a boost. His poll numbers aren't terrible, but he's definitely lost his speechifying magic. He's regarded as aloof. As - who was it, Halprin? - noted a little while back, Obama needs an Oklahoma City event so that he can show how presidential he is. So what does he do? He gives a pretty good speech, but possibly the most campaign-y of his presidency, in a campaign setting.

Look, I'll admit that it's a close call as to whether the president should be involving himself in this. But the way that Obama chose to do it shows us that it was done substantially for self-serving political reasons, and that's ghoulish.

[Tony]

Calling the president of the united states an attention whore is really funny, but way that makes you look stupid. He has his own press corps for god's sake. Under your thin sheen of hyper-rationality and cynicism seems to be someone who just has a lizard brain disgust reaction to Obama.

[Tony]

Because every criticism I made of Bush was rational and well though out.

[Tony]

I accidentally shit in my hand while I was trying to wipe my ass.

[Tony]

There must be some deep-rooted cause for hatred of Obama, but I'm not going to say the obvious answer of "it's because he's black", as I let my favorite broadcast outlets say it for me.

[Tulpa]

Yes, he can essentially demand newspaper and TV coverage whenever he wants.

He can't demand that voters watch that coverage, though. This was a situation where an unusually large audience was going to be watching.

[jester]

I'd file this one under the Bush-Katrina PR Disaster. POTUS must show up at any and every disaster (that isn't a PR disaster)and show important emotions or deliver a heartfelt speech written by ghosts. I can't fault Mr. Obama on this one. It is now one of his official jobs.

It wasn't Lincoln's Gettysburgh Adress but Loughner's Rebellion hardly matched the impact and carnage of the War Between the States.

[Masturbatin' Pete]

POTUS must show up at any and every disaster (that isn't a PR disaster) and show important emotions or deliver a heartfelt speech written by ghosts.

Maybe. But how do you get from that to "the president must hold some sort of unity rally that looks an awful lot like a combination campaign-kickoff/Obama-gets-his-mojo-back rally"?

[jester]

you have confused posts. I just implied showing up with a speech. Of course, I was just illustrating with snark my contempt for the current syastem.

[Masturbatin' Pete]

You know, I would be fine with the President attending a lot of stuff and keeping his goddam mouth shut. But no, we've got to get a speech. Every. Goddam. Time.

[nekoxgirl]

Speech-a-fying is what Obama does best. In fact, I think it's the only thing he does well. It pretty much got him elected President. So of course he does it at every possible occasion.

[Tom Servo]

I honestly don't understand the cheering and hooting. Were these students aware it was a memorial service? Was it advertised with flyers on cars? Granted this wasn't as horrifying as the Paul Wellstone funeral/campaign rally but seriously, what the fuck with the cheering and whistling?

[prolefeed]

I'm SOOOO fucking sick of this story. Post about something -- anything -- else.

[jester]

But it's so easy and so fun to beat dead horses for those of us who avoided 'My Friend Flicka' and 'Black Beauty' and couldn't tell an apaloosa from a palomino.

[SIV]

Misty of Chincoteague.

[SIV]

Fuck Obama.
Fuck 'em all.
Fuck civility.
Fuck off slavers.

[TeamBarstool]

Sitting here in Tucson, I agree

[alan]

Just tried singing that accompanied to the chorus chords and rhythm of Black Sabbath's Paranoid. Excellent fit.

[Dave]

An esteemed alumni of the ruling class was attacked here, folks. This was an assault on one of our most cherished institutions: the Congressional aristocracy who bring order from chaos, national treasure from simple taxes, and exciting wars from boring peace.

Just you keep in mind that this wasn't some inconsequential member of the voting riffraffery. This wasn't some 68 year old grandfather or 88 year old granny who got themselves shot during an errant drug raid. This wasn't some soldier who volunteered to go out have his head shot off in a desert half way around the world. This wasn't some pain doctor who foolishly tried to flaunt the DEA's vague rules in the name of selfishly helping cancer patients. This wasn't some sissy mayor who got all whiny about how his dogs were shot by a SWAT team for sport. And this wasn't some disrespectful activist facing years of prison time for having the nerve to video tape cops (cops of all people!).

No, this was someone important. Someone who mattered. This was one of the purple-robed personages of the royal family. And that's why we're seeing a national period of hyper hypothesizing, wall-to-wall self-analysis, and intense saturation mourning instead of a mere footnote during the nightly news (if that).

[vousy zu?ivosti]

i.e. shut up plebs

[nekoxgirl]

Thanks for articulating that perspective so well. All hail the political class!

[Trespassers W]

Fuckin' A, Dave. +5

[James J.B.]

Bravo Dave!

For those that think he's overstating, look at the reports - they are something like this
1. CONGRESSWOMAN Shot!!!!!!!!!!! Judge killed...and oh some of the little people bought it.

[Matt]

The comments on this thread speak for themselves, and accurately represent contemporary conservatism. I'm no fan of Obama or the Democratic Party, but they are saints in heaven compared to angry, insensitive pieces of shit like most of you.

[vousy zu?ivosti]

concerned troll is concerned

[Esoteric]

Isn't it "concern troll is concerned?"

Either way, well put.

[Esoteric]

Also: I hope that's your real name, and not just some slavic-language phrase, because it rolls off the tongue in the awesomest way.

[pedantic savant]

it's czech for "beard of fury"

[heller]

Libertarians: Representing mainstream conservatism since '69

[heller]

Yup, libertarians sure do represent mainstream conservatism.

[Esoteric]

Is it asking too much of the trolls to at least get the basics of the fucking ideology correct?

Yes, yes it is asking too much.

[Tulpa]

Go fuck yourself. Insensitive enough for you?

[Saints in heaven?]

uh-oh, the kooky religious left just arrived.

[Episiarch]

Why are you angry at the commenters here, Miss Prissy Pants? It's your buddy Obama who is busy fucking the corpses, not us.

[Masturbatin' Pete]

+2

[Epi]

fucking the corpses

Please keep your personal fantasies to yourself. Thank you.

[Tulpa]

Er, aren't you supposed to be an Episiarch spoof? The least you can do is stay in character.

[hmm]

I only watched some of the event. He seemed like he was trying to replicate Reagan,Clinton, and Bush Redux in some misguided political endeavor. Instead of speaking from the heart about a tragedy. I know none of the aforementioned people wrote their speeches, but they seemed to have more invested than Obama did.

But hey, I dislike the guy more than Clinton and Bush combine so I'm probably bias.

[Esoteric]

I yield to no man in my dislike of Obama (it's almost like a game of one-upsmanship: "I dislike him more!" "No way, I totally hate his guts!"). But dammit, I thought he came across as fairly sincere. A reasonable simulacrum of sincerity, at the very least.

I liked the fact that he gently spoke to his base and said, in effect, "stop trying to pin this on 'incivil rhetoric'." He even deviated from his prepared text to emphasize the point.

Again, he's obviously a smart politician and this was the smart political move, but fuck it, I liked hearing it anyway. Consider this my grudging concession of credit to the man.

[hmm]

The talking to the base is about political points. The bit I watched just seemed more political to me. Maybe history and my memory are being kinder to the others.

[Episiarch]

The fact that you can watch even 5 seconds of one of these pompous blowhards sucking the air out of the room without puking astounds me, let alone finding it sincere or (shudder) honest.

[Esoteric]

Eh. My moment of soft-heartedness has passed. I'm back to "fuck 'em all" now.

[Episiarch]

Good. Gooooooooood.

[Esoteric]

My pleasure, Lord Palpatine.

(Was that the vibe you were going for? Or have I been watching too much RedLetterMedia lately?)

[Eric]

No such thing as "too much Redlettermedia".

[Tulpa]

His new Star Trek review blew chunks.

[Episiarch]

The giant fire-breathing cockroach from Family Guy?

[Esoteric]

Ha, I get that reference too...though I'm ashamed to admit it. God is Seth McFarlane such a douchebag.

[Hugh Akston]

This from someone who derides other peoples' lack of taste above?

[Hugh Akston]

That was @ Epi, not Eso. Curse these threaded comments.

[Episiarch]

That's it, Hugh...you're Meg to me from now on.

[Hugh Akston]

One of the two characters on that show not voiced by Seth MacFarlane? I could do worse.

[SIV]

Fuck that shit. I'm all about the incivility from here on out.

[Tulpa]

I'm not going to watch a second of his speech, for the same reason I don't listen to used car salesmen. Well, that and the fact that he's long since become a broken record. The fact that you went out of your way to listen to him at this point in his presidency shows you don't dislike him as much as I do.

[Esoteric]

Honestly, I watched the speech because I was half-expecting, half-hoping it would turn into a legendary clusterfuck.

[Tony]

It's "biased" for fuck's sake. That is the adjective. "Bias" is a noun.

Sorry. Obama apparently wrote this speech mostly himself. If you'd watched the whole thing you probably would have been moved, at least a little. Just objectively speaking, it was pretty solid.

But then Obama could shit rainbows and you'd find a way to hate him for it.

[Masturbatin' Pete]

Sorry, I'm not moved when a president who needs an Oklahoma City Moment to kick off his re-election campaign inserts himself as the center of attention of an event that has nothing to do with him by giving a campaign-style speech to an audience of slogan-t-shirt-wearing, applauding idiots in a venue where concessions are being served.

[Tony]

I also watched every Bush speech objectively and gently pointed out the good and bad points of each one.

[ptolemy]

That was a waste of time.

[Tony]

Because we're supposed to LOVE Obama, without question, unwaveringly.

[mattgee]

+1

[VoteMuslimNoPork]

The speech had its moments, but the whole comforter in chief thing is getting lame.

[smartass sob]

Yes, it did. I especially liked the part where he spoke of Giffords opening her eyes for the very first time after he walked into her room and she heard the sound of his voice. Gee, maybe the Obamassiah can speak and raise the rest of the victims from the dead. Talk about an egotistical jackass - man loves nothing so much as the sound of his own voice.

[jester]

The 18th and 19th Centuries work on getting rid of Monarchs and then the 20th and 21st reconsider. Fucking amazing.

[SIV]

I'm beginning to think, in our next revolution, emulate the Frogs.

[john]

Wow... how ironic that the vitriol and hatred spewed by so many in the above comments come from those who frequent the website of a magazine named "REASON."

[Esoteric]

The other John is way, way better.

[Ken Shultz]

Drink!

[smartass sob]

DRINK!!!

[heller]

Vitriol and hatred? WE HAVE BLOOD ON OUR HANDS!

[DesigNate]

Drink

[DesigNate]

Damn! 11 minutes late

[alan]

Does this mean you wont accept my tax money this fiscal quarter, oh stately man?

[JW]

Oh, john of an .edu address, go to school. Learn something.

[Marshall Gill]

Learn something

Is that even possible at an .edu address? Other than "options in parasitism"?

[Tulpa]

Parasites are people too.

[How long?]

How long before Obama goes back to using expressions like, "If they bring a knife, we bring a gun" in his speeches (and nobody calls him out on it). Oh, I'm not suppose to say, "call out", anymore.

[Ken Shultz]

I'm a little bugged by the news cycle driven presidency...

It's a bit like the Gulf Oil Spill situation--he didn't get involved in that for weeks! Until it started dominating the news broadcasts, then, all of a sudden, he has to go to the Gulf, be on TV talking about it, etc...

Having a Mourner-in-Chief who shows up to news driven memorial services really doesn't impress me much. Some things we can do on our own without being prompted, and surely mourning is one of them.

[Masturbatin' Pete]

If Obama had just shown up, that would have been fine. Instead he gave a big fat speech, calculated to make the media fall all over themselves explaining how "presidential" he looks giving it.

[CalebT]

You know, if "blood libel" should never be used in a figurative sense, how long before the Palin-haters come down on the insensitive use of "nuclear holocaust"?

[CalebT]

The third definition of "blood libel," provided by Wiktionary is "any false or purportedly false accusation of guilt, especially of guilt in mass murder or homicide."

[jester]

That has to be the all-time gayest expression: nuclear holocaust. Of course, if Palin were smart, she'd reply: "Huh, you mean nucular holocost? Right?"

Strawwoman Palin unfortunately was given her powerful place with an assist from the Left to fulfill that easier teardown of what they would proclaim to be the essence of the Right.

[CalebT]

Democrats/liberals have official declared war on language.

[jester]

Democrats/Libs have declared war on free speech. Conservative/Republicans aren't on that hot seat right now, but they definitely play the wordsmith game. Just because the stars, Bush and Palin, aren't particularly adept, doesn't mean the safires aren't.

[CalebT]

Oh, it's true. But the Republicans/conservatives are less scary when they control only 1/6th of the federal government.

[jester]

I don't own that delightful measuring cup in my kitchen.

Recipe for Douchebag Risotto

1/6 cup Republican
1 cup white wine preferably from an estate owned by a prominent donater to...
1 cup risotto from a USDA source protected by tariff law.

get the point.

[Tulpa]

Wasn't that one of Loughner's gripes?

[CalebT]

He may have been more sane then we give him credit for.

[CalebT]

I've actually learned a helluva lot about how the Jews used to make baby gentile, blood pie from the Democrats/liberals who are attacking Palin for the use of the term.

[jester]

Palin troll, get the fuck out of here.

[jester]

BTW,
He was insane. Not just in the membranes (like Cypress Hill needed to fulfill their meter and rhyme schemata). But, insane in the brane. Hey, bring it on. Why not?

[Jill]

Now you know why the shooter was pissed.

[Tony]

You are not being oppressed because people find it distasteful when you invoke the suffering of Jews to whine about how you're being treated. Find another expression. It's not that hard. Unless of course you get all of your thoughts by Googling fringe right-wing sources, as Palin does.

[Masturbatin' Pete]

How many times in your life have you heard someone use the term "blood libel" in a way other than its original definition?

Of those times, how many times did you think doing so was "distasteful"?

[Tony]

It's okay when our side does it.

[Tony]

I've actually never heard it until now, that I know of. I only needed to do a little research to see that it is a phrase with historical baggage for Jews, and also is a modern dog whistle for fringe right-wing folks.

[Tony]

And I still think Loughner was influenced by Palin's hate speech, even if he wasn't.

[CalebT]

Rachel Maddow thinks people on the "terrorist watchlist" shouldn't have guns. For 8 years, liberals could see through this anti-due process horseshit...But now that they are in power...HOLY SHIT!

[alan]

And they wonder where our cynicism comes from. It's easy to be a sincere follower if you are chasing news cycles with the retention of a trauma patient, but to be cursed with memory and sense, you are not afforded that luxury.

[jester]

Rachel Maddow also is unaware that Rosie wants to rivet her.

[Jeff]

Rachel Maddow thinks anyone outside her security detail shouldn't have guns.

[CalebT]

LOD and Chris Matthews are attacking John Boehner for not going to the memorial. Funny, they are attacking him for going to a "fundraiser/cocktail party" and not going to a memorial/political rally.

[alan]

I thought he jumped through all the right hoops when he got blubbery this afternoon. Geez, what do they expect and want? Oh, change parties, submit to Nancy, admit to treason and hate crimes, that's all.

Right here, through the ring of fire, Mr. Speaker. Wait, that polyester suit is not flame retardant is it? Isn't. Awesome.

[jester]

if you don't get emotional at a funeral you are a jerk-off and certainly not an atheist. Atheists always express missing (the true human emotion present). You realize: 'I'm never going to see my (wife, dog, cat, gerbil, sea monkey, okay, political representative)again.' and you rationally observe that the entire 'rainbow bridge' crock-o-shit that your wife boo-hoos over is a totally concocted scenario for leeches.

What are you fucking waiting for? Join us underrepresented fucks. I know. There's no pay.

[alan]

If you are high when you wrote that, there is no excuse for that. You really should be having more fun than what you displayed there or else you just wasted your money on some seriously good PCP.

[jester]

I was high. Send the authorities after me to test my drug-inducement and then shut me up in jail. According to your expertise, I was fucked up on PCP.

Thank God, you are not the police. I am under the influence of Puerto Rican Rum and have been safely secured in my home since I started drinking.

Alan, you will see God again. I will not. I recognize that. You don't. If you cared about me you would care about my salvation. Instead you decided to condemn me. I'm flattered. It's not every day God himself through your Holy personage damns me.

[alan]

Jester, you are talking out of your ass. I don't do God talk, the religious version nor the atheist version, because it bores the fuck out of me and I'm not the least bit curious about it. So, if you have an existential problem, find somebody in a robe and hat to jerk around who gives a fuck.

[jester]

So why do you give exceptions to Mr. President? Hypocrite fucker.

I don't talk out of my ass. Only lethal farts from time to time. I speak in irony most of the time. I think you saw that.

[alan]

My girl is apolitical, areligious, and not judgmental beyond a few non serious matters. I assure you I am not fucking a hypocrite.

[alan]

BTW, when you drive around and you see people whom you don't know outside of a church, or what have you, going in for a memorial service, going inside, do you follow them in to check it out? Why not? What's the difference here?

[jester]

Sorry. I don't check it out. Don't follow it. No need to. I'm not into that. I respect all that do as much as I do all who don't. That is not a sticking matter to me.

And I am truly sorry. I love my fellow man until he gives me a compelling reason not to.

[alan]

then what's this shit, huh?

if you don't get emotional at a funeral you are a jerk-off

Why are you giving me fucking grief about it if you are not Mr. Religisio-concerned?

[jester]

because missing someone or something is an emotion tied to our genes and that's what I said. I never said anyone or anything created our genes. They exist and they are largely to blame what makes us retarded or not. Our non-retardedness is accountable to sheer will.

[alan]

That doesn't answer why you are giving me grief about it. Why you chose my post to unload your rather personal valuation as if you took offense towards something I said. If you did take offense, you need to be much more clear about your motives if you don't want me to respond unkindly.

[alan]

Later gator, feel free to leave a few tread marks and take a few potshots, I need to hit the bed. I would not even be up at this time except I have the excuse of being iced in.

[jester]

Other way around. I have given you no grief. Funny enough, I assume we are more on the same page whereas not. My only enemies are retarded genes.

[jester]

You are incoherent.

[jester]

That is hardly a religious argument. Emotions in humans are evolutionarily developed. Your grief is self inflicted. And your heart I fear is on your sleeve. Dangerous place for it, I might add.

[jester]

That is hardly a religious argument. Emotions in humans are evolutionarily developed. Your grief is self inflicted. And your heart I fear is on your sleeve. Dangerous place for it, I might add.

[alan]

Lol! I have no heart. I hope that was as fun for you as it was for me. I doubt that would be possible, though.

[Hugh Akston]

Caleb, is watching political bobbleheads the only thing you do? Get life dude.

[CalebT]

Hugh, I'm sorry. I got confused on the whole purpose for the "Open Thread" thing.

[alan]

Hugh just means those talking heads will rot your brain. I gave them up back in '98. Never looked back.

[Tony]

He's the leader of the body Rep. Giffords is a member of. If Obama or Pelosi had gone to a cocktail party instead of the memorial, you dolts would be having a fit. Assuming, probably correctly, that Matt Drudge put it in bold and underlined.

[CalebT]

No I wouldn't. And I would be easily as pissed off if Boehner attacked Obama for going to the memorial.

[Masturbatin' Pete]

He's the leader of the body Rep. Giffords is a member of. If Obama or Pelosi had gone to a cocktail party instead of the memorial

In what sense was this event a "memorial" for Rep. Giffords?

[Rock Action]

In the same way that horse from Crime and Punishment still lives as a metaphor?

[alan]

They don't call you Mr. Shit4Brains for nothing. Another reality lack there of moment from you as to be expected.

[Tman]

So far my favorite part of the speech is Tony's reaction to the comments on this open thread.

TONY DON'T YOU SEE!!!???!@!!!???

BURY THE HATCHET!!! MR. UNICORN RAINBOW SHITTER SAID WE NEED TO BE MORE CIVILLLLLL!!!!!

Personally I thought the speech was ok and he slapped around the Krugman left harder than I would've expected. It was probably necessary from his point of view, but the audience was pretty farking creepy. I was waiting for a "FOUR MORE YEARS!!!" chant to start but I guess the speech didn't run long enough.

[alan]

Yeah, I didn't even see it and that's my favorite part too. I figured if it became a Wellstone moment I would see the highlights on the clips. Slapped the Krugnut left, eh, I'll have to check into that.

[Tman]

He didn't name them per se but I'm sure Krugnuts' face looked a lot paler when he said stuff like this-

Bad things happen, and we must guard against simple explanations in the aftermath.

For the truth is that none of us can know exactly what triggered this vicious attack. None of us can know with any certainty what might have stopped those shots from being fired, or what thoughts lurked in the inner recesses of a violent man's mind..............But what we can't do is use this tragedy as one more occasion to turn on one another. As we discuss these issues, let each of us do so with a good dose of humility. Rather than pointing fingers or assigning blame, let us use this occasion to expand our moral imaginations, (blah blah blah)........And if, as has been discussed in recent days, their deaths help usher in more civility in our public discourse, let's remember that it is not because a simple lack of civility caused this tragedy [-- it did not --] but rather because only a more civil and honest public discourse can help us face up to our challenges as a nation, in a way that would make them proud."

Let's not forget what's important here though, remember that there was a collective sigh of brown relief when the Tucson killer turned out to be a gringo

[alan]

I just read the full transcript of the speech. Taking it out of the context of our weird national political theater and imagining it being delivered by a minister instead, it wasn't a bad speech on its face. I have some serious philosophical quibbles with She saw all this through the eyes of a child, undimmed by the cynicism or vitriol that we adults all too often just take for granted.

I want us to live up to her expectations. I want our democracy to be as good as she imagined it. Part of the tragedy of her life being cut short is not ever learning that the value of innocence is ephemeral and insubstantial compared to the value of knowing.

[Kant feel Pietzsche]

I guess I understand the collective sigh of relief, but why is "RACE" the fountainhead of some people's every single fucking thought?

[Mr. FIFY]

He slapped the Krugman left the way a pro wrestler hits an opponent with a folding metal chair... with a wink and a gesture for the next move.

[Azathoth]

^^^^^^^
This.

[Michael Scott]

If I wanted to read a Pajamas Media talking point, I'd fucking read Pajamas Media. For fuck's sake, could some of you supposed libertarians remove the collective right-wing cock from your assholes long enough to formulate your own thoughts?

[Mr. FIFY]

Hey, asshole, I have *never* sullied my computer by way of visiting that fucking website. I draw my own conclusions... nobody tells me what to think.

You, OTOH, obviously have problems with that concept.

[Mr. FIFY]

Michael, you remind me of several Dems who accused me of being a Republican simply because I voted for ONE Republican in the 2008 primary, thus breaking a 20-year streak of not voting for Republicans.

So... piss off and craw back to whatever website you usually frequent.

[CalebT]

Perhaps, Boehner didn't want to increase atmospheric CO2 levels by hopping in a private jet and flying 2,000+ miles to Arizona?

[Heroic Mulatto]

He's the leader of the body Rep. Giffords is a member of.

No, he isn't. John Boehner is the Speaker of the House.

PROTIP: Take a Civics class before you make an ass out of yourself again.

[Tulpa]

Also, Rep Giffords also isn't among those being memorialized.

I guess John Roberts is the one who should be giving the speech, if they're still clinging to the fiction that this is about Judge Whatshisname.

[Tony]

Must... defend... Obama... at all... costs...

[Tony]

I'm on the side of nearly every single person who has made an opinion on this issue.

You idiots are on the side of cranks posting at Sarapalin.com.

[Tony]

...but I don't have to offer proof of what I just posted, because I say so.

[Tony]

Here.

It's noon somewhere. Have a drink and calm down.

[Tony]

While you're at it, you should be showing nothing but praise and respect for Obama. No one else on this planet should be treated as well.

[tr0n]

My mother called to ask what I thought of the speech. I instructed her to not allow asshole politicians to speak at my funeral in the event I am murdered in a multiple victim public shooting.

[Masturbatin' Pete]

+100

[Tman]

But dude, imagine the t-shirt sales for the surviving family?

What's wrong with a little profit at a funeral?

Oh, right.

[lml]

As a citizen from Tucson I have been saddened and shocked over this tragedy since it occurred last Saturday. I have friends who lost very dear friends, and as a mother, I can not imagine the loss of a child. I know many people who live nearby the area where the tragedy occurred, and when something like this hits so close to home, it is hard not to be affected.
Sitting at home with my children in bed, watching the memorial on television, I also thought that the crowd reaction was a little strange, but people deal with grief differently. After a very somber week here in Tucson, perhaps they felt having the President come to speak would give hope and help our community heal.
It is so easy to judge when you are not part of the community and did not know any of the victims or the victim's friends or family.
This is not to discount any other tragedy anywhere else in the US, or anywhere else in the world. Obviously people and communities are struck by unimaginable tragedy every day.
However, let it be what it was. The memorial was held to show respect to the victims and their families and to help a community heal. That is it. Even though some of us who were watching at home may not have reacted the same way as the people in the crowd, I think all of us in Tucson appreciated the gesture.

[Tman]

I would bet my house that there are people in Tucson who did not appreciate the gesture.

I'm glad that the Service helped you and others you know in town, and if it indeed helped more than it didn't than it was the right thing for him to do and I give Obama credit for that. But waiting five days to show up as Captain Above-The-Fray is not.

[Michael Scott]

And, as we all know, Obama's job is to make sure that everyone in Tucson is ok with him reaching out to a community that just experienced tragedy with his awful message of hope and unity. If you fucking whiners weren't complaining about Obama doing this, you'd find something else to bitch about. It's petty, it's disgusting, and it shows everyone who comes to this website to learn about libertarianism what worthless pieces of shit you all are.

[alan]

Bravo! Bravo! Your humanity shines through like a thousand suns. If only we could all learn from your example, the dead will rise to live again.

[CalebT]

Please see my comment to understand my thoughts.

[Marshall Gill]

I also thought that the crowd reaction was a little strange, but people deal with grief differently.

What part about "it wasn't grief" don't you get? While many of those in the crowd may have been feeling grief, those who cheered were simply shit-bags, attempting to use tragedy as a political tool. Not unlike the President, who is also a political tool.

[CalebT]

I think I speak for everyone here when I say that we allow understand, at least to some extent, the tragedy that happened in your community. If you notice the sense of bitterness, let me assure you, it is only because we are in disagreement (some of us, agreement) over the how the government and media are using this tragedy to pass legislation that would limit our individual liberties.

[CalebT]

This is in reply to lml.

[stupid republican]

I couldn't even watch it, i had it on for a couple of minutes and it was disgusting. rainbows, clap clap clap, puddles, clap clap clap. Why were people clapping at a memorial service, what the fuck?

[Jennifer]

Reading this and the other Hit and Run threads on the Tucson makes me very, very glad to be a woman, because I can say things like "What happened last Saturday was horrible, and I feel badly for the victims and their families" without having to worry that I'll lose three inches off my cock or something.

[Kant feel Pietzsche]

Since your very first thought was concern over the loss of your nonexistent cock, I hereby grant you honorary masculinity.

[Kant feel Pietzsche]

If I did lose 3" off my cock, I wouldn't fret about it. I would just pack 3 more inches of sand in your vagina and call it a push.

[Troy]

Whew, I am so glad that women are the empathetic gender. Janet Reno, Mary Ann Cotton, and Belle Gunness come to mind.

[Epi]

It's macho to be an asshole.
Fuck the politician!

[Kant feel Pietzsche]

I'm curious, as a Trollie, does it ever bother you that you look like a dwarfed Don King?

[Marshall Gill]

What happened last Saturday was horrible, and I feel badly for the victims and their families

You are so lucky. Being able to wallow in misery about people that you don't even know. Science, I WISH I could "care" like that!

[Jennifer]

"Feeling sympathy for someone" does not equal "wallowing in misery." And if you guys are out to make casual readers think "libertarianism" includes "dehumanizing your political opponents" I'm sure you're doing a marvelous job.

[alan]

Now that I have actually seen clips of the 'memorial' it is quite clear that you are full of shit. Artificial emotionality driving some need to be hurtful in a most sanctimonious and vindictive way.

People don't cheer at memorials, but they did at whatever that was.

I'm not being calloused, or what you put it in a most silly fashion, 'bad ass', or 'macho'.

I'm being what I always am a dignified human being who doesn't lie to himself at the expense of others.

[alan]

Oh, and fuck you if think you can own or define my humanity.

[alan]

BTW, you were had:

http://tinyurl.com/GiffordsOpensEyesSunday

[Kant feel Pietzsche]

OK, Jennifer. Now that I got that bile out of my system:

1. I can't speak for anyone else, but I was a Paramedic for 25 years. Saw some heart-rending shit, and black humor as a self-defense mechanism for the soul was a learned response.

2. Did it ever occur to you that people are venting precisely because they haven't been ALLOWED to grieve like normal people, by the cynical fucks who decided to make political hay out of this before the bodies even started cooling?

3. Your sexist assumption that females are somehow superior to males because of their slavery to their FEELINGS was aired in the worst possible forum, since most of us around here place a higher value on REASON (drink!) than emotion. I have emotions like every other human being, I just don't allow them to rule me.

[Tulpa]

Right, Jennifer, the whole reason we're disgusted by this display is because we want to appear macho.

Thanks for reminding me why no woman is ever getting a ring from me. I'd probably remove my pituitary gland with a spork if I had to listen to that kind of tripe every day.

[Tony]

What woman would want to spend her days listening to some asshole talk about how a memorial service makes him disgusted.

[Tony]

If there's ever a similar incident during a Republican administration, I'm going to dance a fucking waltz while being disgusted by the memorial service.

[Tony]

I would never be that petty, actually. You guys are just compulsive about finding reasons to hate Obama no matter the occasion.

Not that "you'd do it too I bet!" is any kind of defense.

[Tulpa]

I'm pretty sure I'll be disgusted by Republican politicians when they're back in power too. You seem to have forgotten you're at Reason, not RedState.

[Tony]

It's kind of hard to tell sometimes. Are you trying to tell me that the strange pairing of mouth-foaming hatred of Obama for the horrible crime of giving a speech at a memorial, with protectiveness and defense of Sarah Palin, is merely a function of which one has authority at the moment?

[Mr. FIFY]

You remind me of the kid who said "why don't they love you?" at one of Barry's campaign stops, Tony.

Why *should* we, anyway? I wish no physical harm to the man or his wife, but I DO wish they would both just fucking leave the public sector entirely.

I also wish Palin would go back to being just a housewife, or at least nowhere near politics.

[tr0n]

Missed that whole 9/11 thing, eh?

[Mr. FIFY]

Hey, Jennifer... Feministing is over -----------> thataway.

[alan]

Jesus Christ. Jennifer. Don't tell me your the kind of extra X chromosome bearing idiot who wonders out loud that buildings are shaped like penises because John Wayne strutting males want them that way. Stupidest post from you, ever.

[Jennifer]

No, I have no theories concerning the sexualization of architecture. But certain types of callousness don't make you a badass, simply an ass. I loathe Obama and I loathed Bush, but if some lunatic assassinated either one I wouldn't consider it a betrayal of libertarian ideals to make an apolitical statement like "Wow, I feel bad for his daughters' losing their Daddy."

[P Brooks]

I can't afford a new teevee, so I dasn't watch.

Thanks, Barfman!

[creech]

As my spouse said this morning, "It was the first campaign rally of Obama's re-election effort." In two weeks, this tragedy will be off the radar screen, much like the VT massacre where there was a similar failure to understand why the parents' little darling had gone off the deep end, and college officials tolerated disruptive and bizarre behavior much too long.

[P Brooks]

Was there no one on his staff who was bright enough to say "this is maybe a little ghoulish?"

This question pretty much answers itself.

[Tim]

Disappointed to see so many jaded, hateful comments on here. Quite ironic given that the name of the publication is "Reason."

[Andrew S.]

Cripes. If I see this comment a couple more times I'm gonna be far too drunk to do anything.

[P Brooks]

Since nobody else has asked, I will:

How much did we spend to prop up the empty-suit-in-chief in front of that mob of ghouls and mouthbreathers?

[Devil Inchoate]

It would be interesting to see who paid for the T-shirts. Was it the White House, the University or Obama's re-election campaign/Organizing for America? FOIA anyone?

[R C Dean]

More mush from the wimp?

Speaking of the worst political class evah, did anyone else catch Nancy Pelosi referring to this as a tragic accident?

As my spouse said this morning, "It was the first campaign rally of Obama's re-election effort."

Bingo. A bunch of whoopin' and hollerin' college students is who you want for a campaign rally. A memorial service, not so much.

[P Brooks]

Napolitano was a participant????? Did I hear that correctly?

Holy FUCK those people are despicable.

[Andrew S.]

Big Sis may be the most vile person in the administration, which is really saying something; but given that she's the former Gov. of Arizona, I'm wiling to give her a pass for this one.

[Mr. FIFY]

It gets worse, P... she quoted the Bible. AND, it didn't burst into flames in her hands.

But it sure does point out how quickly the leftist hypocrites will ditch the "separation of church and state" meme, when it suits their purposes.

IOW, it either applies ALL the time... or NEVER. Pick one, Democrats.

[Tony]

I never like to see a public official quoting the Bible.

Why don't you write a letter to your local paper about how offended you are at the contents of a memorial service. Also, about how those damn kids won't get off your lawn.

[Mr. FIFY]

I don't, either, but I don't go around demanding an impenetrable wall of separation only to ignore it when it suits the needs to score political points.

I quit writing to my local paper, by the way, because it's a fucking waste of time. At least half of the readers' comments come from people who look down on anyone who isn't a Democrat by way of using such scathing, well-thought-out logic as calling them "hillbillies". It got really fucking tiresome arguing with people like that.

[Tony]

So your beef is that liberals didn't start acting like shrill busybodies because politicians quoted some Bible verses at a memorial service. It rubs me the wrong way, but I'm just not that petty. I never criticized Bush for doing that, just for his theocratic policies.

[Mr. FIFY]

I didn't like Bush anymore than you did, Tony. Quit playing that fucking harp of yours and stop looking down your nose at those of us who aren't as enlightened as you claim to be.

[Mr. FIFY]

Besides, you obviously missed my point: Either be 100% against invoking religion while on the taxpayers' dime, or 100% in favor of it.

For the record, I despise ALL shrill busybodies. I also despise being told how to live, and that goes for fucking shrill busybody Republicans as well as their counterparts on the left.

And don't say there aren't doppelgangers in the shrill-busybody department.

[P Brooks]

And- Bloomberg just showed the snippet of the Presidential Suit talking about Giffords "opening her eye" or some such nonsense.

And

the

crowd

goes

wild!

WTF?

[Nigel Johns]

I heard that all of the patients in that same hospital are now either in full recovery...or completely healed.

[cynical]

Have to say, it wasn't that bad of a speech. Sappy, but that's expected for these things. But certainly, if one chooses to see it, there is an understated rebuke of the petty partisan bullshit we've been seeing since the shooting. I give it 4 stars out of 5.

[Nigel Johns]

As a memorial service...I'd rate this a 3 out of 10...But as a pep-rally...that was a solid 9!!!! Those folks have spirit!!! It would have been a 9 1/2 or maybe a 10...but the dipshit Professor that gave the incoherent Mexican/American/Native American Prayer Blessing thing was really useless.

[Tony]

Let me see if I have this straight. Sarah Palin's video was almost universally panned, and reasonoids breathlessly defend her.

Obama's speech was almost universally praised, and reasonoids can barely see straight they're so angry about it.

It's so nice being amongst independent-minded nonpartisans as I'm so often reminded you guys are.

[Mr. FIFY]

Like your hands are clean of nonpartisanship, Tony...

...oh, and some of us don't care for Palin. I, for instance, have no more respect for her than I do for Obama.

[Tony]

I don't claim to be nonpartisan. I am not a liar.

[Mr. FIFY]

I think, upon further consideration, you're confusing "defending Palin against the irresponsible blame she received for causing Loughner to shoot those people" with "defending Palin no matter what she does".

Or, maybe it's just as you *think* it is, based on your posts on the matter. Either way, it's a fucked-up theory.

[Tony]

I fail to see the great horrible wrong Obama committed. His performance was praised by everyone up to and including Glenn Beck. It's just that this ridiculous hatred and anger over NOTHING except the fact that Obama was present is interesting to contrast to the defense of Sarah Palin. She's a politician. Why defend her at all if you have no problem being so indiscriminately prickly about democrats?

[Mr. FIFY]

The ONLY defense of Palin I'm offering, Tony, was the way she was nigh-instantly blamed for the Tucson shooting. It was 100% wrong, and just another cheap way to score political points on the left - and, for the record, I don't like that sort of thing from ANY politician.

Look, if McCain had won, I would have just as much respect for him as I do for Obama. Write that down somewhere, so you don't continue to make the mistake you're making in your last post above.

[Tony]

if McCain had won, I would have just as much respect for him as I do for Obama.

So you have no interest in critical thinking or reasoned judgment, just hating all politicians equally.

[Mr. FIFY]

Not all of them... I can think of two or three that aren't deserving at least some kind of derision.

[Tulpa]

I bear contempt for politicians the same way I cover my nose when I see dog shit. Maybe the day will come when it smells nice, but I'm not holding out much hope.

[Mr. FIFY]

I'd consider voting for Herman Cain, and I didn't want to vomit when I heard Daniel Patrick Moynihan speak.

So, another Tony theory gets the shitcan treatment.

[Nigel Johns]

So know a memorial service is an opportunity to give a "speech"??? And WTF does "Universally" mean? Is that code for Liberal? No hate intended

[Tony]

It means the only people who didn't like the speech were nutcases who wouldn't give Obama a fair hearing if their life depended on it. Even the most rabid right-wing pundits couldn't find a bad thing to say about it. So it's nice to see reason regulars in their true colors: more filled with irrational hate for Obama than even people who are paid to have it.

[Mr. FIFY]

Why are we supposed to *like* him, Tony? He's just another politician. Most politicians are criminals in one way or another. What's to admire?

Anyone who puts ANY political figure above criticism, is a fool.

[Tony]

Except Sarah Palin, the vile treatment of whom apparently warrants a defense. The same Sarah Palin who said the potus hangs out with terrorists.

[Mr. FIFY]

Nice try, but *I* am not a Palin-worshiper.

I *will* say, though, that she had absolutely nothing to do with this shooting, which was and continues to be something YOUR side of the aisle still tosses around like it was some kind of scientific fact.

That is the ONLY defense of Palin you will EVER hear from me, so stop being a disingenuous prick.

[Tony]

Then you agree with Obama on at least one thing, since he specifically called out those making such facile accusations.

And since you're a nonpartisan, surely you think it's at least equally inappropriate to say Obama hangs out with terrorists.

[Mr. FIFY]

Yeah, but I'm not going to be like you and get all soppy-faced with tears when I see him on TV, either.

And, yeah, he did call them out... but they're still at it, blaming the wrong people (not just one person, mind you) on Loughner going off the rails.

I'll give him that much, but I'll also bet he uses this somehow come re-election season. Not that I'd expect any less from a politician.

[Mr. FIFY]

Um, the fact that Bill Ayers and his wife WERE terrorists, justifies that particular accusation.

*I* would have more sense than to be pals with freaks like the Ayers'. Wouldn't you, Tony?

[P Brooks]

Why don't you write a letter to your local paper about how offended you are at the contents of a memorial service.

If these blood-sucking ghouls showed up at the funeral of someone in my family, I would shoot them myself.

They are just as disgusting and opportunistic as the morons from Westboro.

[Llama Face]

The speech sucked. Generic and meaningless, and political. It would have been better if he had just shut up and sat in the front row with his obviously disinterested wife. Or lead a prayer, or something meaningful instead of a boring, generic speech delivered with the emotion of a cabbage. I changed the channel halfway through.

[Michael Scott]

Go ahead and write a more appropriate, moving speech than the one Obama delivered. Post it here. I'll wait.

[Mr. FIFY]

The speech wasn't bad.

But you missed some drool on your chin there, Michael.

[Paul Krugman]

That's my fault. Sorry, I'll clean it up.

But that isn't drool, for the record.

[Ed Schultz]

That's not drool, and it's not Krugman's not-drool.

But I ain't cleanin' it up.

[Ed Schultz]

But I am gonna torch the fuckin' place!

[Mr. FIFY]

Tony, you said earlier you watched every Bush speech, and "gently" pointed out the good and bad in each one.

Since you said something nice about Bush, then, it's amazing you would take one single act of defense of Palin - bearing in mind the loathing one might have for her otherwise - and completely shitcan the idea of "gently pointing out the good and bad".

Then again, I'm not the one demanding that we love some guy just because he's the highest-ranking politician in this country. There's nothing reasoned or logical about that kind of doe-eyed fealty to a mere mortal.

[Tony]

Actually that was a spoofer. Bush was incapable of giving a good speech, because of his tenuous grasp of the English language. But I certainly didn't find cause to get angry over his 9/11 bullhorn speech. There's just no point in it.

Palin deserves defending against accusations that she caused the shooting. The most eloquent defense that has been made was by President Obama.

[Mr. FIFY]

Kinda hard to tell the spoofers from the real thing.

Having read the transcript of Obama's speech last night, I will give whoever wrote it credit.

There... I said something nice about Obama. Happy now?

[Tony]

It's bizarre how you guys combine abysmal expectations of politicians with furious grievance over their every faux pas.

[Lith Ping]

Chief Sillyfeather was bad, and it didn't get any better after that. (I was trying to recall who he reminded me of, and eventually it came to me--that Carl character on the FedEx commercial, the good speechwriter but terrible speech-deliverer.)

I'm an American, and I neither kneel nor pray. And I don't like to see the POTUS bible-thumping.

[Michael Scott]

Thankfully, having a religious, bible-thumping POTUS is an entirely new phenomenon in American politics.

[Lith Ping]

Wouldn't it be nice if that were true? We wouldn't be in the mess we're in if there had been less spirituality and more reason in politics since, oh, say 1789.

[Azathoth]

The purpose of the speech was to end the 'civility' conversation. It was to make nice concilliatory noises without anyone getting to defend themselves or have to actually apologise.

Now, anyone who tries to defend themself can be castigated by the same people who were smearing the Tea Party, talk radio, and the right in general, for refusing to let the wound heal.

And let's all be clear--the wound is supposed to heal with a scar that states that Sarah Palin and right wing rhetoric caused this.