Playing Gaia: Scientists Report Natural Genetically Modified Organisms

Swedish researchers are reporting that they have discovered a naturally mediated genetic transfer between two reproductively isolated plant species. They speculate that some kind of pathogen picked up and transfered the gene between the two grass species. Of course, this is exactly one of the techniques [PDF] that biotech researchers have been using for many years to add beneficial genes to crop plants.

It turns out that biotechnologists haven't been playing God. Instead, they've been playing Gaia. Not that there's anything wrong with doing either.

And anti-GMO species isolationists (you know who you are) should probably avert their brains away from contemplating the ménage à trois that resulted in modern wheat [PDF].

Comments

[Joshua Corning]

It turns out that biotechnologists haven't been playing God. Instead, they've been playing Gaia. Not that there's anything wrong with doing either.

This is not a suprise nor is it new. There is over whelming evidence that not only have genes been jumping from species to species thanks to mother nature but ample evidence that genes have been jumping from animal family to plant family to bacteria family and back again.

How mother nature has not created the environmentalists mythical "Super Weed" in its billions of years of unregulated experimentation but somehow man will create it in the controlled space of a lab is beyond me.

[Pro Libertate]

If God didn't want us to mess with DNA, he would've encrypted it.

[robc]

He did, but about like Adobe encrypted acrobat documents.

[EscapedWestOfTheBigMuddy]

Tell that to the protein folding people.

The encryption algorithm is strong, it's just that he used ECB blocking, so there are a lot of replay attacks.

[joshua corning]

The encryption algorithm is strong, it's just that he used ECB blocking, so there are a lot of replay attacks.

Microsoft proved by their negligence years ago that security through obscurity is not security at all.

Or do not remember the Melissa virus?

[Ken Shultz]

"It turns out that biotechnologists haven't been playing God. Instead, they've been playing Gaia. Not that there's anything wrong with doing either."

I suppose it depends on whose God you're playing. If they're playing mine, then there very well might be something terribly wrong with that.

Incidentally, I read recently about how the mitochondria in our cells are thought to have descended from pathogens that invaded our ancient single-celled ancestors. I'd always wondered by they had their own DNA.

That would seem to be the same sort of genetic transfer kind of thingy, wouldn't it?

[Joshua Corning]

Incidentally, I read recently about how the mitochondria in our cells are thought to have descended from pathogens that invaded our ancient single-celled ancestors. I'd always wondered by they had their own DNA.

One should note that the DNA that mitochondria have is more similar to bacteria DNA then animal eukaryotic DNA which suggests it comes from a separate ancestral branch.

Also it is not just human mitochondria but all animal mitochondria.

I don't know if the original fusion of mitochondria with eukaryotic cells was necessarily pathogenic....it could have easily been a symbiotic relationship.

[joshua corning]

That would seem to be the same sort of genetic transfer kind of thingy, wouldn't it?

Yes in fact a very ancient one that has the evolution of animal life for billions of years. There is also speculation that other features (like Gogli apparatus) of eukaryotic cells were formed in a similar manner. The difference being that unlike Mitochondria the DNA has been absorbed into eukaryotic nucleic DNA. There is some evidence in animal DNA that codes for these features that suggests this.

[joshua corning]

Yes in fact a very ancient one that has shaped the evolution of animal life for billions of years.

I even previewed it....damn you server squirrels!!!

[joshua corning]

double crap Plant and fungi are also eukaryotic

Yes in fact a very ancient one that has shaped the evolution of plants animals and Fungi for billions of years.

[Ken Shultz]

"I don't know if the original fusion of mitochondria with eukaryotic cells was necessarily pathogenic....it could have easily been a symbiotic relationship."

This grass gene transfer could have been beneficial too.

Maybe I'm not using the term "pathogen" properly, but I meant that it was some kind of invasive organism--but yeah, symbiosis that made more complicated life forms possible.

Maybe I'm not using "invasive" right either. It wasn't part of our ancient ancestors; it was a separate organism. It modified our ancestor's DNA to make itself at home, like other pathogens do--and it worked out great for everyone involved!

I think that's what they're saying happened with these grasses too.I was just trying to add that humanity's molecular biology has apparently already been genetically manipulated that way...

Incidentally, as well? I think the difference between me and transhumanists is fallibilism. The things that have been most heavily scrutinized or thoroughly tested are the things that are most likely to be true, work well, etc.

And what I think transhumanists disregard as irrational squeamishness? I sometimes wonder if that's not some kind of socially adapted taboo. Following socially adapted taboos not being necessarily irrational from a fallibilistic standpoint.

[joshua corning]

I think the difference between me and transhumanists is fallibilism.

Transhumanism through genetic modification is probably not the path most likely the singularity will take.

It seems far easier to make a synthetic blood cell that allows one to hold their breath for 20 min then to bioengeneer someone with gills.

I think the nanotech/cybernetic path offers more immediate satisfaction. It seems more likely that a corporation can sell Lazik eye surgery before they can sell genetic modifications of peoples unborn children which may or may not work and the child may not like.

Now dicking around with the genetic code of my cereal so it tastes better clears my arteries and gets me laid? yeah i can see that...but modifying our food does not seem transhuman to me...in fact i am fairly certain farming, animal husbandry and food prep are some of the things that distinguish us as humans from other primates and other species.

[joshua corning]

Maybe I'm not using the term "pathogen" properly, but I meant that it was some kind of invasive organism--but yeah, symbiosis that made more complicated life forms possible.

Ron used the term pathogen because the exact mechanism described in the articles he linked used a virus...which is very much a pathogen. The virus encodes itself in the organism's DNA to replicate itself...in that replication process a virus can pick up DNA from the organism and when it goes to another organism and encode that DNA into it...thus transferring DNA from one organism to another...or in the link's case from one species to another species.

In the lab scientists use that same process that the virus uses in nature.

When I agreed it was the same thing i meant in more general terms...DNA going from one species to another. in that way it is similar. but the actual mechanism in which eukaryotic cells incorporated the DNA of mitochondria was probably not the same.

[MJ]

No, mitochrondria are not a genetic transfer thing at all. Mitochrondria are essentially separate organisms in a mutually beneficial symbiotic relationship with us (and other animals), they do not share DNA with their host organisms. I suppose genetic transfer between them and the host is possible but that is not how they work.

[Ken Shultz]

Well then help me understand...

Mitochondria don't invade the fetus at conception. My understanding is that we inherit a mitochondria from our mothers, from the egg.

I think what you're saying is that becasue mitochondria aren't manufactured from the genetic material in the nucleus of our cells, that means they didn't alter our code in any way...

Am I getting that right?

[Ken Shultz]

'cause even if that's so, hasn't the code in our mitochondria become part of us?

And isn't it still the case that what we are wouldn't be possible without the adaptation of our single cell ancestors by way of...ancient mitochondria ancestors acting like these grass pathogens?

[joshua corning]

ancient mitochondria ancestors acting like these grass pathogens?

Generally: yes

Specifically: no

also

No, mitochrondria are not a genetic transfer thing at all.

If this were true then plasmids would also not be called genetic transfers.

Of course biology is squishy and trying to define everything in yes/no answers true or not true does not really work. If you want to call mitochondria separate organisms then go ahead.

[JSinAZ]

I think this is really what you mean by natural trans-human genetic transfer: http://www.newscientist.com/ar.....sushi.html

[joshua corning]

natural trans-human genetic transfer

Wouldn't "natural trans-human genetic transfer" simply be called fucking?

[JSinAZ]

Maybe you're right that I'm wrong. I'm actually not sure how modified gut bacteria can become prevalent across a country (at least not one that is obsessed with cleanliness like the Japanese I've met). I'm pretty sure fucking is not involved however, except in pretty narrow circumstances - although their porn is right out there so who knows?

[Yonemoto]

you can make a bacteria mate with yeast via sex pilus.

[Old Mexican]

It turns out that biotechnologists haven't been playing God. Instead, they've been playing Gaia. Not that there's anything wrong with doing either.

Nothing wrong there, absolutely right Ron - the problem stems NOT from that, but from I.P., or Intellectual faux Property rights.

Maybe the patogen can file a patent suit against Monsanto . . .

[Old Mexican]

Pathogen.

[Almanian]

This is teh awesome. Very interesting article. Thanks, Ronald.

[Warty]

Alt-text! This is a major breakthrough.

[Paul]

He's been doin' it for a little while. And yeah, you beat me to it.

[Jason]

I'm disappointed no-one made the obvious joke... I'd transfer my genes to her.

[Paul]

They wouldn't fit.

[Amakudari]

I was trying to figure out where I had seen that picture. It's this: Ophthalamia - Via Dolorosa. Weird little 90s metal album (sample).

[Paul]

I feel Reason's quality has gone up considerably since Ron Bailey finally got into the alt-text game...

[robc]

Drink?

[Pro Libertate]

Actually, that would be the opposite of drink.

[joshua corning]

vomit?

[Pro Libertate]

Or not drink or urinate.

[Almanian]

Take a diuretic?

[Amakudari]

To the coffee machine!

[?]

Gaia's kinda hot.

[Tony]

Hope you enjoy destroying the world.

[MJ]

Since the anti-GM people are angsting about the genes of man made strains somehow getting into natural plant populations, I don't think they'll find this news reassuring in any way, shape or form.

[Ray Pew]

Since the anti-GM people are angsting about the genes of man made strains somehow getting into natural plant populations, I don't think they'll find this news reassuring in any way, shape or form.

This is my take as well. They will consider this evidence as even greater reason for alarm, since they see human genetic modification as inherently filled with danger. It's OK if Mother Gaia does it, since she isn't a greedy capitalist.

[Oregon Scott]

I doubt the GMO wheat comment will go over well with all the people who blame GMO for the wheat allergies that a lot of people have.

I love my natural, genetically-modified orgasms!

[Yonemoto]

WTF? I mean this is exactly WHY it's dangerous to have GMOs. Don't know about you, but do we really want to have Bt genes in all sorts of plants? What happens when the number of species that have Bt reaches a tipping point and forces the caterpillars to evolve resistance? We'll have sudden, unchallenged infestation.

Much like the federal reserve, having GMO plants takes minor booms and busts and collates them into a huge collapse. The only way to prevent this is by using responsible agriculture.