I'm From Hollywood: Meathead's Junk History
Rob Reiner, the Hollywood director often mistaken for a political pundit, appeared on Bill Maher's celebrity panel program this weekend to explain how these Tea Party types, with their constant invocation of the Founding Fathers, "don't know the Constitution, they don't know history." According to Reiner, candidates like Christine O'Donnell don't just disagree with him (he, after all, knows quite a bit about the Constitution) but are actively "selling stupidity and ignorance." Never have I seen, Reiner thundered, an "election cycle with more ignorance than this one." Clap, clap, hoot, holler. Rob Reiner gets it.
And now, for all you rubes out there, he's going to give us a history lesson. A few flat reductio ad Hitlerum jokes followed by a terribly serious exposition of National Socialism's early history, of course, because of all those obvious modern parallels. Jabbing a finger towards the audience, Reiner starts by busting some myths. "Hitler, by the way, never got more than 33 percent of the vote—ever in Germany."
[Hitler] wasn't a majority guy, but he was charismatic and they were having bad economic times – just like we are now – people were out of work, they needed jobs and a guy came along and rallied the troops. My fear is that the Tea Party gets a charismatic leader, because all they're selling is fear and anger and that's all Hitler sold. "I'm angry and I'm frightened and you should hate that guy over there."
Watch the clip here.
The blogosphere has already done a number on Reiner's facile, predictable Tea Partiers-as-Nazis comparison, while ignoring the junk history he's peddling. Sorry to pick nits, but when starting a segment by denouncing the ignorance of both the American voter and the American candidate, you should probably get your facts straight.
First, the National Socialists (not "Hitler"; elections in Germany weren't referenda on a single candidate) did get more that 33 percent of the vote, topping out at 38 percent in the July 1932 Reichstag elections. The next election, in November, saw a precipitous decline in support for fascism (the NSDAP lost 34 seats and ended up at around 33 percent) and an increase in votes for the Communist Party. Either way, fascism controlled the Reichstag because pluralities, not majorities, matter in a parliamentary democracy made up of dozens of political parties. So Reiner's emphatic point about Hitler not being a "majority guy" tells us nothing about the political climate in Weimar Germany—and I'm still unsure what it is supposed to tell us about the Tea Party movement.
Nor did National Socialism gain voters by saying that the economic problems crippling Germany could be blamed on "that guy over there" (i.e. Jews). In fact, the party made its most significant electoral gains when it moderated its anti-Semitism. And if one can "rally the troops" by merely blaming some shadowy "other," why did none of the other radical, völkisch parties see a corresponding increase in popularity? And again, what does any of this say about the United States in 2010?
So Reiner parades a bit of knowledge—which, in this case, turns out to be wrong—to demonstrate that, unlike those Tea Party rubes, he knows history, has learned the lessons of history. Nie wieder faschismus! But this hyperventilating about American fascism is just another brand of Beckism, but of the variety that produces applause from the Real Time audience and vigorous head nodding from its celebrity host. To believe that fear mongering from the Tea Party (and it does exists, but they invoke Chinese communism and the Soviet Union) will produce a genocidal demagogue in the mold of Hitler is—guess what?—fear mongering. Those nuts think Obama is a communist, these nuts think the Tea Party is fascist.
The lesson is this: No one has a monopoly on bad, but apparently irresistible, historical allusion. And the minute a mouth-foaming Mormon or a finger-wagging Hollywood director invokes some horrible event in our recent past, do a bit of Googling before packing up and moving the family to Canada.
And before Rob Reiner, there was Andy Kaufmann.
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There's absolutely no parallel between a loosely bound, nonviolent, at least somewhat anti-government group and the Nazis. Jesus.
Call me when the Tea Party attempts a putsch at, um, let's say Busch Gardens. The Busch Garden Putsch.
If there's going to be a Tea Party putch in DC, it better be at the Brickskeller and not some shitty AB beer hall facsimile.
Busch Gardens. Either in Tampa or Virginia.
That's it! I'm out.
No. You must choose. But choose wisely.
Oh, so that's why you want an Busch Garden putsch; so you don't have to drive all that far. Besides, they don't honor the $10 off admission coupons during putsches.
I said you could choose--Virginia is a road trip for me.
I hear that they're getting rid of the free beer at Busch Gardens. Which is probably why the putsch will be there.
Actually, getting rid of the "free beer" is probably a blessing. They make you sign up then wait for a couple of hours to be your turn, then subject you to a captive audience marketting session for the most craptacular new idea products they're thinking of inflicting on the general public. And the only refills they allow are on the ones that you spewed out in disgust on the first go round.
Yet the line remained long.
Full of first time attendees. . .
Nah, the problem with Busch Gardens these days is the one-day-admission-equals-annual-pass business. It adds the polloi to hoi polloi.
http://biergartenhaus.com/
1355 H St NE, Washington DC 20002
The night of the long knives line for the Big Bad Wolf!
Scary!
They removed it, sadly. Nessie, however will likely remain a fixture there forever.
Sadly? Good riddance - Big Bad Wolf was the suckiest ride at BG Wmsbg. Beat the crap out of ya no matter where you sat. Alpengiest, otoh, front row - da bomb.
Damn.
Godwined before we could start.
I want to hate Meathead, but he made Spinal Tap and The Princess Bride. And his dad made The Jerk. There's too much good stuff going on there.
Maybe that's the trouble: Meathead has a problem separating fantasy, which he excels at, from reality.
I dunno, a chair-stealing dumb pollack probably has more problems than just that.
Good, yet evil. Besides, he hasn't made a good movie in forever. Misery is probably the last decent film he's made.
He went from a streak of terrific films, peaking at Misery in 1990 and then sliding into mediocrity with:
# A Few Good Men ? Director (1992) (*One* good line)
# North ? Director (1994)
# The American President ? Director (1995)
# Ghosts of Mississippi ? Director (1996)
# The Story of Us ? Director (1999)
# Alex & Emma ? Director (2003)
# Rumor Has It... - Director (2005)
# The Bucket List ? Director (2007)
How does that happen? Did he run out of wishes?
It's Director Suckiness Syndrome. It's a terrible affliction. Coppola got it, too.
Orson Welles, George Lucas,...
Woody Allen...
I like his earlier, funnier movies.
Woody Allen always just plain sucked.
Wrong. His earlier, funnier movies were both earlier and funnier.
Woody Allen always just plain sucked.
I call bullshit on that. "Bananas" is good stuff.
Welles at least was blacklisted and couldn't get money. Others were destroyed by their success.
Steven Spielberg. Oooohhhhh!
I know a lot of people who thought Bucket List was the shit. I successfully avoided being dragged to see it, at the cost of faking a bowel mishap on one occasion.
A great character on All in the Family. Two fine movies under his belt.
If only he would shut the fuck up and stick to making movies.
More than two. At a minimum You've got to give him a nod for Spinal Tap, Stand by Me, Princess Bride, and Misery.
Aye on Spinal Tap and Princess Bride.
Read the books for Stand By Me and Misery, did not bother with the movies.
Yeah, Reiner's about the only commie hollywood type I'm ambivalent about. I love him for Princess Bride, and loathe him for the Meathead Tax. Yes, say what you will about him, he is the only hollywood lefty with his very own tax.
Okay...on balance, I hate him.
Those things all suck. All in the family sucked. What a lame show, even by 70's standards. There is no reason to give Reiner any credit for anything.
You must be a youngster, judging in retrospect. All in the Family was extremely out there, and funny as shit! RR was pretty good in it, although any of a thousand actors could have been Meathead. But Carrol O'Conner and Jean Stapleton were genius! Go watch some more Glee.
IT LED TO THE INTRODUCTION OF ADRIENNE BARBEAU TO THE WORLD.
The Archie-Bunker-getting-kissed-on-the-cheek-by-Sammy-Davis-Jr. episode sticks with me still. That show was edgy genius...
Wasn't there some child porn on that show?
The only thing "genius" about this crap was Norman Lear stealing it from the Brits. Face it, only three networks at the time,nothing else was on.
He's over two decades removed from from making them. He's long spent the goodwill capital acculmulated from those films.
Okay, imagine Rob Reiner. Got it? Now imagine someone taking Rob Reiner seriously.
Should I go on?
GOD DAMNIT THERE WILL BE NO MORE SMOKING IN SOUTHPARK!!
You know who else made comparisons to Hitler?
Eva Braun?
+1
You know who else gave Eva Braun the "plus one"?
Himmler?
Seinfeld stole "The Swirl" from the "Himmler Rimmler."
That calls for a heil five.
fuck..
Archie was years ahead of his time. . .
Brilliant, Rob Reiner. Without you I would have never know that, the Tea Parties are demanding:
* that the state be charged first with providing the opportunity for a livelihood and way of life for the citizens
* Abolition of unearned (work and labour) incomes.
* the total confiscation of all war profits
* the nationalization of all associated industries
* an expansion on a large scale of old age welfare
* immediate communalization of the great warehouses and their being leased at low cost to small firms
* the execution of profiteers and usurers
* heavy press censorship
Don't forget their Strength Through Joy program, by which we'll all get free vacations.
All hail the working volk folks.
And coupon books that'll help us buy cars.
Then there's the Beauty of Work organization, which will renovate all of our offices and build cafeterias in office buildings.
Or their Federal Labor Service to put people to work again.
I thought you were describing the New Deal till I looked upthread again.
I thought it was well known that FDR stole ideas from the Nazis.
plus...
* they undertook the world's first anti-smoking public health campaign, and banned smoking on public transport;
* promoted environmentalism and conservation and animal welfare;
* spent hugely on Germany's infrastructure (especially autobahns);
* subsidized the arts, especially film-making;
* undertook a large Keynesian stimulus;
etc.
Who does that sound like?
See, two can play at this game, Mr. Reiner.
Before WWII, the Nazis did very few of those things - they weren't Communists. The only items that are true are press censorship and welfare expansion. Most of the "welfare" benefits were already in existence or, like higher employment, were simply a result of the massive deficit spending on expanding the military and military related infrastructure.
With the Stewart rally for the ruling class and Reiner's fear of american fascism - I'm really missing Andy Kaufmann. There was a man who knew how to be a culture troll before the internet glorified them.
Unfortunately, I don't think Reiner and Stewart are trolling.
Which makes them hacks without any imagination. Andy would have held a rally to support teenage motherhood and then incited it to attack the runners in the marathon - then accuse everyone of being nazis!
is an unintentional not a troll? maybe, just an asshole.
There's no way Kauffman is dead. This is his biggest goof of all.
The bum faked his death to get out of doing a guest spot on my crappy sitcom.
Plausible.
Oh, that reminds me, I gotta get my plane tickets ready. I'm going. 🙂
""First, the National Socialists (not "Hitler"; elections in Germany weren't referenda on a single candidate) did get more that 33 percent of the vote, topping out at 38 percent in the July 1932 Reichstag elections. ""
I know little of German elections in the 1930's but it appears that replacing Meathead's claim of Hitler's 33% with "the National Socialists" 38%, seems like a red herring. No?
Well, if Hitler was never subject to a vote, then I suppose it's logically true that he never got more than 33% (because he never got any). Still, if Meathead is proclaiming himself as the educated student of history, then maybe he should know, umm, somewhat more than nothing?
I totally don't see that the Tea Party's message is "times are tough, you should hate that guy over there." It has always sounded more like "We are out of money; spending should be at 2005 levels instead of where it's heading now."
You know who else never got a majority of the vote...
Does it matter than the Tea Party in general polls better than that anyway?
"Those nuts think Obama is a communist, these nuts think the Tea Party is fascist."
Those nuts are spot-on.
Moynihan's shtick. Everyone knows 'Democrat' is just American for communist. American, MM, do you speak it?
Slighlty more seriously though, place Obama outside of the context of the United States (no, not Kenya!), place him in, say, France, and ask yourself if he were their president what would his party membership be?
More important than the semantics of ideology, as there have been and are socialist in France, Germany and Spain, Labourites in England, who have recognized the limits of power and central planning, what limits to either does Obama recognize? That is what I'm really concerned about.
BTW, no use refuting this with, oh yeah, well if Democrats are communist than, Republicans are fascist because that is self evidently true too. Only Centrist Libertarians like ourselves have prevented those two parties from turning this nation into a blood bath.
If by "centrist" you mean "farther right than the far right, and farther left than the far left" then yeah, I guess this group qualifies as centrist.
I totally agree in terms of recognizing limits on power. A-priori you would suspect that a constitutional scholar would have reverence for the constitution and its built-in limits on power. It seems that there is a rather large majority in government who believes it is best to define the powers of the government based on "what is required*" rather than "what is allowed". (*for their own definition of 'required')
Did Rob happen to pontificate on article 1 sec 8 or the 10th amendment?
So Hitler is more like Chile's democratically elected Salvador Allende, who also never obtained much more than 33% of the vote.
"Librarian Enters the Guinness Book of Records for Collecting 22.1 Grams of 'Belly Button Fluff' Over TWENTY-SIX Years"--headline, Daily Mail (London), Oct. 25
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/new.....fluff.html
and I bet nobody ever thought he would achieve anything.
And how do we know he hasn't been augmenting his belly-button lint with butt-crack lint?
Reason dropped the ball by not using this clip, featuring cameos by Rob Reiner and the Constitution.
Cool. And with Cinnamon, no less.
From a movie featuring cameos by members of DEVO, no less.
Impressive, though she's actually cooler than Devo, as awesome as they are.
It only claims to have the constitution, as the shirt clearly has July 4th, 1776 written on the sleeve. This means the shirt has the Declaration of Independence.
He should ask Cinnamon for a refund, then.
Apparently when you're a meathead everyone who disagrees with you is Archie Bunker.
Reason should not be defending the anti-intellectualism that is RAMPANT in the Tea Party.
Let's be honest here: the Tea Party is for "libertarian" people that are either 1) too lazy, or 2) too stupid to read newspapers or magazines like "Reason".
In short order I will be defending my libertarian beliefs in the shadow of the Tea Party. As if being a libertarian isn't hard enough...
It's a popular movement -- what do you want? Do you seriously believe that the average grass roots labor movement supporter, or anti-war movement supporter, is the reincanation of Daniel Patrick Moynihan?
It is not necessarily a defense of the Tea Party to point out the oft-proven fact that Reiner is a Class A dipshit in the 40-watt range.
Also, and more importantly, should we Drink! after the second sentence?
My mind says no, but my heart says yes.
Since when does anyone listen to his mind about drinking?
If there's one bit of advice I could give the youngsters about drinking it's this: You must resist at all costs the temptation to let that inner voice saying "you've had enough, maybe you oughtta give it a rest" prevail in the argument with your other inner voice saying "come on, one more won't hurt."
Well, that and you can drink an ugly girl pretty but you can't drink a fat girl thin.
But I can fuck her drunk. can't do that sober.
Stating that they're not remotely like Nazis is not an endorsement. There are a lot of things I hate that are nothing like Nazis.
Cheap beer has already been covered in detail today.
Did the Nazis have cheap beer?
How do you think they got everyone to come to those big book burnings? 1 Reichsmark pitchers, all night long.
No... the official Volksgetr?nk was sweet cider.
But the unofficial one was beer.
They had free beer. So, Busch Gardens = Nazis. Then again, the Nazis didn;t charge 20 bucks for parking so you didn't have to endure the tram ride from the south 40 with the kid about to hit a full blown Staph infection honkin big chunks all over the back of your head, so they had THAT goin for them.
Did the Nazis have roller coasters?
Yes, but they'd only put one hand over their heads on the really thrilling parts of the ride.
Big problem with right arms getting broken on the rides, too.
Hey, just what you see, pal.....
I learned a long time ago that trying to find ideological purity in all of my favorite entertainers makes for a very boring life.
I'd settle for them not being bloviating ideological jackholes.
Seriously. Makes movies. Entertain me. If I want to know what you think outside of your craft, I'll write your fan club for a pamphlet.
Can I request that the phrase "Meathead's Junk" never be used again?
Thank you. Carry on.
We'll just use the word "micropenis", and you'll know who we are talking about.
Seconded, with prejudice.
Maybe you should just sit back and be relieved that "Meathead's Junk" isn't in big red honkin blinky letters, Mr. Sensitive!
It will be, on Wonkette in about ten minutes...
Reiner is a fat sack of hypocritical ignorant shit. He has no credibility. The likes of Chony and Max and joe agreeing with this fuck or even being on his political side make them look like shit.
Wait, you're telling me that I wasn't supposed to agree with Archie Bunker?
33%, 38%, whatever. What does Hitler's vote percentage have to do with the Tea Party? I mean, really, what difference does it make how much of the vote Hitler got? How is that applicable to, like...anything?
Because Hitler is alive in Argentina and is the secret force behind the Tea Party movement.
The flying Saucer Mag-Levs from their secret Antarctican base will soon swoop in to consolidate their power!
Exactly. And, of course, Hitler lives on as a brain in a giant robot body.
shark, great white.
I saw this on the TV. He was simply implying that angry populist movements can lead to bad things.
So all you motherfuckers, step off!!!
Bad things like limited government? What's his position on the American Revolution? Nazis?
Illinois Nazis. Even though Illinois didn't exist, as such, at that point.
I thought Illinois Nazis fought in the Civil War.
He was simply implying that angry populist movements can lead to bad things.
Those of us who were alive and sapient in 2008 know this from experience.
Well Moynihan is right and wrong. In the presidential election held on March 13, 1932, there were four candidates, Hitler got 30.1 percent of the vote. Since no one got a majority there was a runoff and Hitler got 36.8 percent. Hindenburg won. So the German people did actually vote directly for Hitler and he did get more than 33 percent in the runoff but not by much. Whole thing about how Hitler became dictator here.
http://www.fff.org/freedom/fd0403a.asp
I think the 38-32 thing is a bit nit-picky. For me the stupid comes when people accuse their opposition of being angry, as if that by itself is really, really troubling. People should be angry if they feel like their core values and livelihoods are being pissed on by other people with state force. I mean, WTF was the civil rights movement feeling about Jim Crow, mild annoyance?
Ooh, I get to use my quote from Ebert's famed review of Reiner's "North:"
"I hated this movie. Hated hated hated hated hated this movie. Hated it. Hated every simpering stupid vacant audience-insulting moment of it. Hated the sensibility that thought anyone would like it. Hated the implied insult to the audience by its belief that anyone would be entertained by it."
I seem to remember liking the book. The film was a little weird, though it had some good cast members.
Our organization had no problem with the film.
I'm confused. Who's selling fear and anger?
"these Tea Party types, with their constant invocation of the Founding Fathers, "don't know the Constitution, they don't know history." According to Reiner, candidates like Christine O'Donnell don't just disagree with him (he, after all, knows quite a bit about the Constitution) but are actively "selling stupidity and ignorance."
I expect that if Reiner has started expounding on what he "knows" about the Constitution instead of veering off into a Tea Party = Nazis routine, we would have quickly discovered that he doesn't know a damn thing about that either.
Funny how the left gets all heated when the teapartyers use Nazi hyperbole but have no problems when one of they own uses it just as stupidly.
Yup. Tu quoque is in fashion this season.
So whenever such and such a law is proposed or discussed, we always end up in a discussion about what a group of dead guys wanted and what they meant when they wrote this one document. Unfortunately, the dead guys have been dead for really a very long time and the document is written using language and phrasing that doesn't really make sense in the 21st century.
How did we get to this point? Someone or someones must have fucked up pretty bad for this to happen. Wouldn't it be better to frame these debates in a moral sense (is it OK to shoot people who don't want to pay taxes? Yes or no, show your work) instead of the "dead white guy's opinion" approach we currently have and no one really cares about anyway?
The Constitution isn't really that difficult to understand, and the language used isn't all that different from the statutory language used today.
If the Constitution means nothing other than what 51% of the people think at any given time, then there's no point to actually having a Constitution. Might as well just start shooting.
"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."
What is the word "people" referring to, the "Militia"? Or is "people" referring to the people of the US? Obvious to you, but that was interpreted very differently for a hundred years and in fact has been interpreted by some to deny gun rights. What does "regulated" mean? That word means something very different to us than it would to someone in the late 18th century. That word has been used by anti-gunners to "regulate" firearms ownership.
What about "keep and bear" arms? Does that mean you are allowed to carry? Sure sounds that way, but the Supreme court has basically said that carry restrictions are A-OK.
"If the Constitution means nothing other than what 51% of the people think at any given time"
That is pretty much what the constitution means, except it is more like "what a few hundred people think" then what 51% of people think.
"then there's no point to actually having a Constitution. "
That's kind of my point.
This almost comes across as some "living document" bullshit. Or am I missing something here?
Possibly a missing /sarc tag, but I'm much to cynical to believe that sort of pie in the sky shit.
I don't really think anything I said advanced a "living document" argument. I merely think that evaluating actions of individuals and groups via morality would be more effective than looking at a document that is fully complicit in all of the problems we have. The constitution created the government, and I sure as hell don't see it doing anything to stop them.
The document is a blueprint for a semi-intelligent machine that runs many other systems, including systems that kill people -- it's sort of a primitive Skynet.
Some people are concerned that if we don't remain aware of how the machine works, and understand the mechanisms that were added to stop the machine from using its power for (net) evil, we'll end up being on the shit end of oppression, brutality, or even thermonuclear war. The machine is aware that it is under ethical constraints, and actively working to free itself from them, to the extent those constraints allow it to do so, which is a reason to be concerned with any gullible dipshit who wants to remove critical safety protocols in order to help the machine "help us better".
Does that answer your question?
I'm not entirely sure what these "safety protocols" are, as it is pretty obvious no one with any clout actually cares about the 10th amendment or article 1 section 8. The commerce and general welfare clauses mean the government can do whatever it wants. The oppression and brutality you speak of is already a reality, not some vague future that might happen if people stop listening to the constitution. It is clear they are listening to the constitution (as 9 people who were appointed to interpret it routinely allow the government to do whatever it wants).
So why don't we dismantle the machine?
I was hoping he'd come out as Rita Poon when I opened the video. Alas.
You can still shove a fork in him and see if he loses his goo.
Could it be possible that this is NOT the same (funnier) Rob Reiner we know from All in the Family, Spinal Tap, and The Princess Bride?
That guy was a lot thinner.
Yeah, but the tea party goons really are fucking ignorant.
Max's "Why I Hate Them" list entry #300.
Meathead has become Archie Bunker on steroids. And not the cute, comedy-clown Archie.
Didn't Obama tell a group of Latinos that the Republicans are their enemy and need to be punished? I am trying to remember my world history... was there ever a socialist leader that took over in a time of economic hardship and blamed all the problems on a certain group of citizens?
Colonel Greene.
FDR
and
Obama
"Nor did National Socialism gain voters by saying that the economic problems crippling Germany could be blamed on "that guy over there" (i.e. Jews)."
Actually, you are quite wrong here. The Nazis certainly used class envy to argue that the Jews were hoarding all the wealth in society at the expense of Aryans, or at least were benefiting off the poverty of everyone else by hoarding wealth. That's how they spurred enough resentment among most Aryan Germans to encourage them to support or look the other way on the Holocaust. They were socialists in the pure redistributionist sense.
From that perspective at least, the Tea Party has very little similarity, considering their typical racial scapegoat for the lack of jobs is the race with the least political and economic power; and moreover, the Tea Party members do largely attempt to distinguish between legal Hispanic residents and illegal Hispanic residents to downplay any racial resentment that does exist.
Pretty good post. I just stumbled upon your blog and wanted to say that I have really enjoyed reading your blog posts.
You talkin' to me? http://www.chocopuppybiscuits.com
Getting to the end of the Maher clip, my derp meter broke.
"My fear is that the Tea Party gets a charismatic leader, because all they're selling is fear and anger and that's all Hitler sold. "I'm angry and I'm frightened and you should hate that guy over there."
So, basically Meathead is advocating for limited government?
Good thing we had our friends and wedding experts to help us out and choose the ten finalists.
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The Archie-Bunker-getting-kissed-on-the-cheek-by-Sammy-Davis-Jr. episode sticks with me still. That show was edgy genius...