Reason Morning Links: From NPR to LBJ

• Juan Williams fallout: new calls to defund public radio.
• The Pentagon moves into domestic cyberwar.
• The biggest outside spender in the 2010 campaign: AFSCME.
• How much more money will Fannie and Freddie get?
• Facebook's latest privacy foulup.
• French pension protests: the refinery front.
• Lyndon Johnson's near-death experience.

Comments

[Johnny Longtorso]

Thank you, Obamacare: Our premiums are going up 45%

Map: the great soda vs. pop vs. coke divide

[Almanian]

That second one is money. I knew my sister was lost to me when she started asking for "soda" after a decade or saw living in Manhatten...

[Almanian]

"saw" = "so" for today. WTF kind of error is THAT? Ah - "not enough Mountain Dew yet" error...

[Rhywun]

I grew up in pop country but believe me, when you move to soda country people will just stare at you blankly if you ask for a "pop". Sometimes you just have to go native.

[waffles]

In pittsburgh we are truly the frontier line between pop and soda. Some supermarkets have a "pop" aisle, some have a "soda" aisle, and some have a "soda pop" aisle. Furthermore aisle is one of those words that just looks mispelled.

[Jonas]

Yeah, I went into heavy "soda" territory for college and it wasn't so much that people wouldn't know what I was talking about if I said "pop" as it was that they refused to acknowledge me as a human being. It's bizarre how stigmatized the word was.

I'm back in "pop" territory now, and I'm finding it very difficult to readjust. I can't seem to ever decide what I should call it, because I've been suppressing the word "pop" for years but I feel like I sound snobbish to say "soda".

[Nick]

Say "soft drink" and blow everyone's mind.

[waffles]

Do I look like a Canadian to you!?

[Ted S.]

I'm glad I don't like carbonated beverages. 🙂

[Slut Bunwalla]

I live in "Coke" territory but I usually say soda (unless I specifically mean Coke) because if I don't mean Coke, then Coke isn't correct, and I think pop sounds stupid, kinda childish. I don't know.

[capitol l]

Why the "Great Soda Island" in the middle of the country? Weird.

[Nick]

I wonder what makes Missouri and Southern Illinois say soda.

[Nick]

Damn you capitol l.

[Jonas]

It's the self-righteous St. Louis assholes. I'm not even kidding. I went to college with those fuckers and people from St. Louis are about the most insular, narrow-minded, and ignorant people in the world. So naturally they exert weird social pressure on everyone to behave like them, and somewhere along the line they must have all gotten together and decided to prefer "soda" over "pop", a decision they ruthlessly enforce. It's like a whole city of politicians.

[Ted S.]

Worse than Bostonians?

[Nick]

My employer hasn't told us our 2011 health insurance rates yet, but I fear for the lives of every Democrat in my office when they're announced.

[John Thacker]

My native NC is the oddball border state where local favorites "drink" and "cold drink" fight on equal turf with "soda" and "coke."

[The Mossy Spaniard]

I actually heard "Co-Coler" quite a lot growing up here, and it applied to everything except the native Cheerwine and SunDrop.

[CrackertyAssCracker]

I say that is a variant on coke.

[Name Nomad]

"Pop" to me has always sounded like something a child would say on a 50's TV show. "Golly! This pop sure is swell!"

Also, I'd like to see a map of locations where "Pop" is the chosen name for "father" intersects with the "pop" for soda people. They must get even more confused than the "Coke" people trying to order a Sprite, Dr. Pepper, etc.

[robc]

Never had a problem ordering a sprite, Dr P, etc.

It goes more like this:

A: hey, you want a Coke?
B: Sure, what ya got?
A: Coke, Sprite, Pibb, Diet.
B: I will take a Sprite.

or shorter:

A: Want a coke?
B: Sure, make mine a sprite.

[Nick]

This must piss Pepsi off big time.

[Farva]

I would like a liter of cola.

[Maverick]

White House phone call recording of Lyndon Johnson talking to a tailor about his nuts and "bunghole", and he burps a few times too.

[mattrue]

This just proves there are some things that the public doesn't need to know.

[mattrue]

This just proves there are some things that the public doesn't need to know.

[Jerry]

Koch holds a summer seminar, left-wing paronia ensues.

[Almanian]

The Pentagon moves into domestic cyberwar.

And what could possibly go wrong with that? Do You Want To Play A Game? No, no I don't...

[cmace]

"Department of Homeland Security would direct the work."

[Suki]

Anna Chapman goes Bond Girl marketing herself. I cannot believe this was missed by the reason staff. Partial nudity, great shoes, action figures and an iPhone application.

[zoltan]

Reason doesn't care about the proclivities of an insane fifty-year-old doofus with DID.

[MNG]

Man, are we going to be sick of this Juan Williams thing by the end of next week!

It's interesting how much traction these things get, almost solely on the "enemy of my enemy is my friend" energy. Liberals didn't know Sherrod from Elvis but they knew evil conservative bloggers like Breitbart are Teh Devil. Likewise I doubt conservatives love Juan Williams work (to most he was the liberal to curse on the Fox news roundup show) but they know that NPR is a socialist hotbed of leftist multicultural claptrap and so ONCE MORE TO THE BREACH CONSERVATIVE SOLDIERS!

[MNG]

For the record I think NPR firing Williams was stupid. But it strikes me as little different as CNN canning Sanchez over his comments. Media outlets are in tight spot. Had NPR not fired Williams we would be hearing this week from angry leftists and Muslim supporters about how they dropped the ball (thought experiment: take Williams comments and replace the word Muslim with "blacks" or "Mexicans").

The real solution is for everyone to stop being so offended by people speaking freely and not maliciously.

[?]

take Williams comments and replace the word Muslim with "blacks" or "Mexicans"

Fail. Blacks and Mexicans are not the world's #1 terrorists. That's the context in which Williams spoke.

[MNG]

"Blacks and Mexicans are not the world's #1 terrorists."

Neither are "Muslims." Some number of Muslims have committed terrorist acts, but many, many have not.

By the same token most murderers in the US are black, but most blacks are not murderers.

[?]

Reading comprehension fail. I didn't say most Muslims are terrorists. I said most of the major terrorist acts in the past 20 years have been committed by Muslims. And that's why some Americans have an irrational fear of Muslims. Again, in the Williams case, context matters.

[MNG]

"I didn't say most blacks are murderers. I said most murders committed in the past 20 years have been committed by blacks. And that's why some Americans have an irrational fear of blacks."

And yet, if you said you were afraid of blacks on tv you would likely invite some trouble. It's uncool I admit, but it is what it is. Same with impugning any group based on the actions of some members of the group.

[Fluffy]

But Williams doesn't think it's irrational. Williams thinks it's RIGHT, and that it's not HIS problem to fix, but that American Muslims have to fix it FOR HIM.

[John Thacker]

That's not what he said at all. He went on in his argument to say that it was completely wrong to judge a group on the basis of a few (and made a comparison to McVeigh and Christians, even if I'm unsure about McVeigh's actual religiosity.)

He was simply acknowledging that he has these feelings, not that he was proud of them.

[Tulpa]

It's understandable to think that male flight attendants are all homosexual, but you don't go on national TV and blather about it.

[Isaac Bartram]

My impression was that Williams does think it's irrational. But he also finds it understandable.

Jesse Jackson's self-confessed fear of young black men (he is not the only one - ask any DC cab driver - and Obama's grandmother) is also understandable while at the same time being inaccurate and doing a grave injustice to the vast, overwhelming majority of young black men who are law abiding and hard working.

[Grant]

"the vast, overwhelming majority of young black men who are law abiding and hard working."

[citation needed]

[Isaac Bartram]

Go fuck yourself.

[The Mossy Spaniard]

An apt reply to such an assertion. The only reply, perhaps.

[Azathoth]

Bears maul, maim and/or kill very few people in this country. Therefore it is wrong to be afraid of the bear that's coming toward you--you don't know that it's one of those bears that maul, maim, or kill. Most bears are peaceful, berry-eating, forest-shitting creatures.

[Slut Bunwalla]

They shit forests? Man, no wonder they're so grouchy.

[Suki]

+100 Maobama grandmother ref.

[Fluffy]

That statistic is not correct.

[PicassoIII]

Never heard of teh IRA?

[SIV]

The real solution is to get the US government out of the business of funding news and entertainment media.

[Captain Holly]

The real solution is to get the US government out of the business of funding news and entertainment media.

Yes! That's the real issue here, not whether conservatives are suddenly in love with an NPR commentator.

If NPR were fully private, then the Right could harrumph all it wanted to but that would be the company's decision.

Since taxpayer dollars helped fund Juan William's firing, the whole issue becomes fair game for opportunistic politicians.

[John]

"take Williams comments and replace the word Muslim with "blacks" or "Mexicans"

And you would have exactly what Jessee Jackson said about young black males back in the 1990s. I am sure he is quite welcome on NPR.

If NPR didn't take my tax money, I wouldn't care that they are a propaganda wing for the worst elements of the Democratic Party. But they do, and since they are a government funded organization, they shouldn't be able to discriminate based on political view point.

And speaking of discrimination, is there another black person with a regular gig on NPR? I can't think of one. Why do progressives hate black people so much?

[MNG]

Yeah, NPR is a propaganda wing for the Democratic Party. That's why they regularly did and do in-depth interviews with William Buckley, Milton Friedman, David Brooks, Richard Vigurie, etc...

BTW-Jackson has never to my knowledge been an employee of NPR, likely because of his many goofy statements over the past.

[John]

Yes they are. That is why Juan Williams gets fired for this. But at the same time Nina Tottenberg, who is a reporter not an analyst, routinely wishes painful death on conservatives and they ran a cartoon series last year called "How to Speak Tea Bagger" which accused 40% of the country of being Nazis.

Yes, they are nothing but a propaganda wing of the Democratic Party and the worst elements of it at that. Just because they occasionally interview a conservative or pay David Brooks to come on and play concern troll, doesn't mean they are not leftist. Jesus, the NYT opinion page publishes Brooks every week, does that make them "conservative".

Really MNG, do you want to die on this hill? You don't do yourself any favors when you refuse to admit the obvious.

[MNG]

John hit every talking point making the conservative rounds this past few days in the first paragraph.

Totenberg! Tea-bagger Cartoon! See, that proves they are a wing of the Democratic Party!

They are not nearly as biased as Fox and Friends...As I've said before I was introduced to Milton Friedman and his ideas via PBS (ditto for WFB). Can you imagine Fox devoting a few hours to exploring the ideas of a comparable leftist in the way that Free to Choose did?

Google Fox and Ombudsman and see what you get...

[Andrew S.]

Fox and Friends may be idiotic, but it's not funded by my tax dollars. NPR is. I'd hope you can see a difference.

[MNG]

That's a separate issue. A libertarian would have to be opposed to NPR even if they essentially became Fox and Friends.

[John]

Way to change the subject. Can you make an honest response just once in your life? If they are not a propeganda wing of the DNC, why is it okay for Tottenberg to wish that Jessee Helms' grand children die of Aids and for a cartoonist to call all the Tea Party Nazis at NPR, but Williams gets fired for saying "gee traditional Muslims make me kind of nervous on planes" on another network?

Until you can answer that question STFU. The fact that PBS ran a single show 30 years ago doesn't answer the mail. Jesus, Free to Choose was over thirty years ago now.

So stop wasting everyone's time and make an intelligent response to something that doesn't involve screaming Hanity and Limbaugh.

[MNG]

I said yesterday WTF about the 12 year old Totenberg example yesterday. It was certainly unprofessional and mean spirited. I'm guessing the critical difference is she attacked a pol while Williams impugned an ethnic group. The latter regularly is treated as much worse in our society lately.

I'm guessing cartoonist fall into the "opinion" section of NPR organization, like David Brooks does. Those folks get wider lattitude.*

*Again, I realize to the Fox and Friends the idea that opinion commenters should have different aims and objectives than say, moderators, will be quite hard to wrap your head around. But more reputable news agencies do try to maintain this standard.

[John]

Tottenberg is a reporter. And nothing happened to her over that. And Helms' grand kids are not pols. And further she has said other crazy stuff. And Williams is an analyst not a reporter. He is there to give his opinion just like the cartoonist. So he should have but didn't get the same latitude the cartoonist got.

Try again.

[MNG]

I told you the difference: Totenberg insulted a pol, Williams an entire ethnic group. The latter is fodder for more outrage these days.

[R C Dean]

Totenberg routinely engages in partisan commentary, which for a "correspondent" should be doubleplus bad, according to NPR. But she is tolerated.

[State Rape]

"John hit every talking point making the conservative rounds this past few days in the first paragraph."

Jesus you're a shitty debater.

[MNG]

Mohammed you're a worse one.

I point out John's tired talking points lap because it illustrates something important about John: he doesn't know what he's talking about. He doesn't listen to NPR a lot, he just caught these examples dredged up this week by the conservative blogosphere and is manning the barricades.

[Yawn]

Ming v. John is boring.
Always seems to be in reruns.

[aaron]

PBS and NPR are two different things.

[CoyoteBlue]

National Pale peoples' Radio (NPR).

NPR's (caucasian!) ombudsman responds:

http://www.npr.org/blogs/ombud.....n-williams

Shorter version: Juan has always been a troublsome negro but firing him was:

"It's not about race. It's also not about free speech, as some have charged. Nor is it about an alleged attempt by NPR to stifle conservative views. NPR offers a broad range of viewpoints on its radio shows and web site.

Instead, this latest incident with Williams centers around a collision of values: NPR's values emphasizing fact-based, objective journalism versus the tendency in some parts of the news media, notably Fox News, to promote only one side of the ideological spectrum.

[MNG]

I realize the whole concept of an ombudsman will be hard for the Fox news crowd to wrap their heads around...

[State Rape]

Jesus you're a shitty debater.

[Isaac Bartram]

NPR "needs" an ombudsman because it is publicly funded and must pretend to be fair.

If you don't like Fox news, do what I do; leave it turned off and it won't cost you a dime.

NPR is soaking me whether I listen or not.

[fishmo]

You never heard of Andy Levy?

[?]

"fact-based, objective journalism"

Hahaha! The only place you can find that is the video tape from an unmanned, stationary surveillance camera, placed there by chimps. As soon as a human being enters into the equation, however "objective" he tries to be, his presentation of the facts is skewed. There have been some great journalists in American history, but they are long gone. The line between "objective" journalism and propaganda has not been blurred; it has been obliterated.

[MNG]

We're all relativists now! Objectivity is impossible so embrace your bias!

[?]

Not at all. But purely "objective" analysis is very difficult to achieve, and there are precious few instances of it to be found in our endlessly chattering culture. It's an ideal. Not that honest people shouldn't strive to achieve it. I do, as well a a few others here.

[TrickyVic]

""Not at all. But purely "objective" analysis is very difficult to achieve,""

And it's boring. Not much ad revenue for you if it's not exciting and getting ratings.

[cynical]

I love that sort of bizarre doublethink explanation -- we have to fire our left of center commentator because he appeared and gave his opinion on a network which only promotes right wing thought.

[Fluffy]

Anyone who would say on the radio:

"Whenever I walk down the street and see any black people, I think to myself, 'They're going to rob me. I'm totally getting robbed RIGHT NOW!'"

...should expect to get fired.

And what Williams said is no different.

It doesn't matter how many Muslim terror attacks there have been, no more than it matters what the statistics are on crime.

[State Rape]

As Chris Rock says "When I go to the ATM at night I'm not looking over my shoulder for the media, I'm lookin for NIGGERS!!!!"

[John]

But any number of people have said just that about young black males and haven't been fired. And further, he was just saying something that a lot of people think. A lot of think exactly like he does. Just like a lot of people black and white get very nervous when they see a large group of young black men on the street.

Is that fair? No. But it is reality. Is media supposed to pretend that it doesn't exist? And moreover, even if you say that Williams deserved to be fired, fine. Fire him. But why the hell wasn't Tottenberg fined for the crazy shit she says? Why did they refuse to take down the "How to Talk Like a Teabagger cartoon"?

I can see your point about Williams. And maybe he should have been fired. But that doesn't change the ridiculous double standard going on at NPR. And it pisses me off to no end that I pay taxes to fund propaganda for a political cause.

[MNG]

"But why the hell wasn't Tottenberg fined for the crazy shit she says? Why did they refuse to take down the "How to Talk Like a Teabagger cartoon"?"

Keep reading the memo brother!

[State Rape]

Jesus you're a shitty debater.

[John]

And keep not responding to the point. Is there any form of bogus argument you don't practice? You have no response to the substance of the point. So you just scream memo or Hannity or some other bullshit and think that that passes for argument. Well that may work on KOS but it doesn't on here. And you should know that. Make an honest argument or concede the point.

[MNG]

MNG|10.22.10 @ 9:49AM|#
I told you the difference: Totenberg insulted a pol, Williams an entire ethnic group. The latter is fodder for more outrage these days.

[State Rape]

Islam isn't an ethnic group you stupid fuck.

[MNG]

"But any number of people have said just that about young black males and haven't been fired."

Citation needed.

[Fluffy]

I am just as offended by the concept of NPR's existence as you are.

But that's a general "insert libertarian disclaimer" concern. Nothing about the Williams incident makes me any more anti-NPR than I already was.

And I think the problem here is that Williams seems to embrace his irrational fear of Muslims instead of resisting it or apologizing it.

Sure, if I'm in a bad neighborhood and a bunch of hip-hop guys are walking towards me, I'm probably going to be scared. But if I told that story on the radio, I'd use it as an example of the kind of "natural" emotional racism that you have to try to struggle against by trying to be rational. Williams did the exact opposite. He embraced his own irrational fear and offered it as evidence that the US has a "Muslim problem".

[Mo]

I'm not sure about you, Fluffy, but for me it has more to do with their dress and action than their race. If I'm in a bad neighborhood and there's a group of guys dressed in stereotypical thug outfits and a guy in a suit. I'm more worried about the guys in the thug outfits, white or black, than I am the guy in a suit, white or black.

[capitol l]

I think that these recent firings are more management asserting authority than a systemic double standard. Presently the hyperbolic rantings about teapartiers is acceptable discourse.(Please note that I said presently, and also don't condone the zeitgeist)

I said almost the same thing when Sanchez was fired, that making public comments such as these indicates an arrogance and comfort in one's position. Every talking head in America knows that if you make these type of comments, no matter how innocuous, there will be an outcry, and naturally(and sadly) that is the last thing that a news organization wants to deal with. Basically I am saying that you don't get fired for the act you commit but the disrespect it implies.

Also, if you don't fire this guy, then what about the next one? It is often the case that minor infractions can have major consequences if management feels its authority is being threatened. You use the stick on this guy and not only do you make your audience happy*, but also send a message to other employees.

*I don't think that npr's core audience is really up in arms about this. Anyone else?

**All libertarian disclaimers apply.

[Richard Nous]

Obviously Fluffy only read the headline.

[Isaac Bartram]

That's not what Jesse Jackson said.

And it's not the same as what Williams said, either.

[Mo]

Jesse Jackson got a pass because if he was black. If Jesse Jackson was a white guy that said the exact same thing, he'd be vilified over it.

[Tulpa]

The vast majority of NPR's operating budget is not tax-funded, but comes from charitable foundations, business underwriters, and "listeners like you". And like PBS, the vast majority of their programming is not news.

[John]

Good then they won't miss a beat when they are cut off. One dime of tax money is too much.

[Old Mexican]

Re: MNG,

[T]hought experiment: take Williams comments and replace the word Muslim with "blacks" or "Mexicans".

I tried, but with all my might I cannot see myself being uneasy about blacks or Mexicans sitting next to me in an airplane as neither blacks or Mexicans have flown airplanes into buildings . . . at least on purpose.

Also, your point REEKS of disingenuity. Williams started a conversation with his comment about how he felt not to agree with O'Reilly that all Muslims are homicidal maniacs but to state just how pervasive the culture against Muslims has become. He was trying to make good points from there.

He didn't even stated his opinion about Muslims, he was stating a FACT: "This is how queasy I feel sometimes when Muslims board airplanes with me."

[CoyoteBlue]

Who doesn't love purging troublesome negros?

[Woodrow Wilson]

+ 1

[Pete Mynack]

"Fox News Chief Executive Roger Ailes handed Williams a new three-year contract Thursday morning, in a deal that amounts to nearly $2 million, a considerable bump up from his previous salary, the Tribune Washington Bureau has learned. The Fox News contributor will now appear exclusively and more frequently on the cable news network and have a regular column on FoxNews.com."

If that's getting fired...I don't wanna be hired!

[Brett L]

This is why I can't work up high-dudgeon. Its not like he got black-listed (no racist).

[-]

Who has gotten blacklisted in the last 60 years?

[State Rape]

Michael Richards.

[Fluffy]

And he's probably really pissed about the fact that he got blacklisted, but that Mark Fuhrman and Randy Marsh still have work.

[MNG]

I saw him on Curb Your Enthusiasm post-scandal iirc, and again iirc he did a funny bit about the scandal.

[-]

Who blacklisted Michael Richards?

[TrickyVic]

Mel Gibson.

[State Rape]

Great preemptive post, minge.

[Suki]

Everybody is sick of you at the beginning of the week. The week never gets any better on that topic.

[Com'on man]

Fareed Zakaria goes off on public employees - sort of.

[Flex Nasty B.I.G.]

That's one of the more insightful reports I've seen from CNN or their like. What's it take to get more of that?

[CaptainSmartass]

Video won't load at work, what's the gist?

[?]

So is Mee-Shell Norris the only "black" person left at NPR?

[John]

There is one. I think so. So progressives just hate uppity black men who have strong opinions. OK.

[?]

Seems like a white liberal women's club to me.

[NPR listener]

Juan Williams stole the hubcaps off my Prius!

[Nina Totebag]

He's an Oreo!

[MNG]

Keep spinning John, move those goal posts!

John: Does NPR have any black persons other than Williams? Talk about discrimination!
Commenter: Er, how about Norris?
John: Oh yeah. Well I mean black men, with strong opinions, any of those?

[John]

As usual sarcasm goes right over your head. Keep chasing the stick you humorless fuck.

[MNG]

John: I mean black men who appear on Fox and speak their minds about the Islamic threat? Any of those? Yeah, I didn't think so!

[John]

Liberals fired an outspoken black man. Calling them racist for it is always funny. It is funny not because it is true. It is funny because if Fox News ever fired a black commentator for breaking with conservative orthodoxy, every liberal in America including you would be screaming about how racist it was.

It is the hypocrisy stupid.

[MNG]

Hey, I've said I think it was stupid firing and noted how ironic it has been that PC has been harming notable minorities (Sanchez, Schlessinger, now Williams) in order to "protect" minority feelings. But I don't think NPR's firing had anything to do with racism towards Williams because he was black or "uppity" it was because he made a borderline "racist" comment about an entire group of people. That kind of thing infuriates a lot of people (did you see the [admittedly pathetic] walk out on the View when O'Reiily made similar comments])? NPR was damned if they did something here, and if they did nothing. They were going to catch hell...

[Fluffy]

Actually, I will take one tiny little step in on John's side here.

If a black media personality made an incendiary leftist statement, NPR and progressives would be totally fine with it, because that would just be "keepin' it real" or what have you.

If Zombie Franz Fanon rises from the grave, NPR will give him a gig.

[TrickyVic]

Does this count?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/.....24207.html

[State Rape]

It wasn't even an opinion, john. He was honestly expressing how he felt. If I say big dogs make me feel scared, that's not an opinion.

[MNG]

Caninist!

[Barely Suppressed Rage]

Ofeibea Quist-Arcton regularly reports from Africa.

Elvis Mitchell, who does "The Treatment," is black.

I'm trying to think of others, but I'm pretty sure there are.

I don't believe the people at NPR are racist, just overly, overcompensatingly, politically correct.

[SugarFree]

Ira Glass is not black, but he is hard from growing up on the street. Ira Glass is one gangsta motherfucka. Trust.

[MNG]

+1

[John]

http://www.saysuncle.com/2010/.....t-the-dog/

Thank you law enforcement for making it impossible to tell which band of criminals (the ordinary kind or the government backed kind) are kicking in your door.

[SugarFree]

The High Price Of Obesity On City Budgets; or, Why Can't The Homeless Just Eat (locally grown, gluten-free) Cake?

[capitol l]

I must be the eternal optimist. I think it is great that even the most impoverished in our society are morbidly obese.

[MNG]

This.

Being poor sucks. The poor have few pleasures, and like many pleasures some of them may be bad for long-term health. But they are some of the few pleasures they enjoy and can get. Liberals who want to deprive the poor of those pleasures are paternalistic assholes imo. Its maybe the worst trend in liberalism today, second to the reflexive market hating.

[R C Dean]

The poor have few pleasures,

Not counting high-def big-screen TVs, smartphones, Ipods, and the like, of course.

Seriously. Go to a Walmart sometime. Very few people aren't sporting a smartphone and using it heavily (which means they are paying either for unlimited data or a lot of texting surcharges). We've all seen the reports on what your average person at or below poverty owns in terms of cars, appliances, etc.

A disproportionate number of poor people smoke, too, which is not a cheap hobby.

Its not that the only pleasure they have is cheap/bad food. I think it runs deeper than that.

[PapayaSF]

I pay my iPhone bill by going to a nearby AT&T store and using their ATM-like machine. Last time I got there just as the guy ahead of me was finishing, a 20-something Hispanic guy who seemed lower-class. I saw the amount he was paying: $445!

[The Dan]

And of course, the squirrels

[capitol l]

I initially meant my comment as a joke, but on reflection decided that: yes this is a good thing.

Poor people around the world are fucking literally starving. Here we fret that the city will have to pay an extra $200 (more than some 3rd world yearly income)because the indigent are so well fed.

It is odd the things that make me proud of my country, though.

[State Rape]

Jesus what a moron. The poor aren't fat because eating is one of the few pleasures in which they can indulge. They are fat because they can only afford to fill their bellies with high carb foods. When I became unemployed for 5 months a few years ago, I gained about 20 pounds because all I could afford to eat was rice, ramen and potatoes. When I was reemployed, I went back to eating steak and shrimp.

[R C Dean]

They are fat because they can only afford to fill their bellies with high carb foods.

I think too many can only afford high carb foods after they spend their money on non-essentials. They rank their other pleasures higher than a healthy diet.

[Grant]

True that.

[capitol l]

Yeah! Fuck those fat ass poor people. Can't even delay gratification for ten minutes, standing on street corners drinking mountain dew, and smoking newports!

*sips $8, 700 calorie starbucks drink*

[Fluffy]

Actually, the reverse should be true.

Processed foods tend to be expensive.

It's FRICKIN EXPENSIVE to sit around eating Doritos all day.

It's pretty much dirt cheap to buy ground beef, pork shoulder, shrimp in smaller sizes, etc.

If you're willing to make a little effort to cook, it's cheaper to eat healthy. The problem isn't relative food prices, it's that people are too lazy to cook.

And you might say, but poor people work long hours and are too tired to cook. But it always looks to me like the fattest poor people are the ones who work the least.

[T]

+eleventy

[capitol l]

Fluffy, I tried to mention this before, and got jumped on. But, you're right if you make the effort (not even a lot of effort)to cook, then good healthy food can be had on the cheap.

Ten bucks can work wonders if you are smart about it.

[zoltan]

Collard greens and kale are some of the cheapest things in the grocery store. Beans are extremely cheap, they're not as bad for you if you soak them. If you want to eat a piece of meat a day, those chicken breasts (supplemented with rib meat, LOL) in a bag will last you a week for a dollar a day. It takes more time in the grocery store but you can do it.

[Juice]

Unless you are allergic to it, gluten-free just means you are getting less protein.

[capitol l]

Everybody is gluten intolerant now. They think that is the reason their tummies hurt, and not because they are sadsack worrywarts.

No offense to the statistically insignificant segment of the population that are actually celiacs.

[CaptainSmartass]

As a comic recently said, I don't know what gluten is, but apparently it's delicious!

[zoltan]

Fuck wheat; I'll get my protein from an animal and not a nasty seed chock-ful of toxins.

[John]

Pauli Krugnuts says that fiscal austerity was the "fad of 2010". We have the largest peacetime budget deficit in history. If it is was a fad, it was a pretty sorry one.

[?]

The problem with writing pundit-fiction in the Information Age is that your words never go away. Anyone can (and will) do a search and call you on it. So you're stuck with all the silly things you say, and you cannot easily back away from them. The pundit-fiction writers have to hope that people have short memories or haven't yet figured out what search engines are for. Or more probably, that they just don't care about consistency and integrity. Pre-internet writers could get away with it. Now the jig is up.

[Pauly Krugnuts]

Pffffffft! I have selective memory and Nobel Laureate condescension on my side.

[Com'on man]

Pauli Krugnuts has been challenged to a debate over at Mises.

[?]

I would pay one Galt's Gulch gold piece to see that.

[MNG]

But John, we are not at peace time, we are at War Against Islamo-Fascism, a war folks like you helped bring to us! You're not giving up the Good Fight are you?

[John]

We do have two small wars going on that is true. I thought those wars were going to end once the Democrats too over. Seriously? You mean Obama didn't end the wars? I never. You could knock me over with a feather. Next you are going to tell me he didn't repeal the Patriot Act or close GUITMO.

Sorry MNG, but the war monger card was maxed out the day you voted for Obama. Those wars are yours mine and ours now.

[MNG]

How many wars has Obama started? That's right, that is two less than your team.

[Spoonman.]

Sure, the blame for the war and all the misery goes to Bush, but the blame for not ending them is all O's.

[MNG]

I'm upset with Obama's not ending them, but not ending something and starting something are two different things.

[Spoonman.]

From a spending money perspective, all that matters is that we're still spending money on them. So I'm currently more pissed at the Dems, because they're the ones with the power to stop the travesties.

[Tulpa]

So are dog shit and horse shit, but you don't want to step in either one.

[Richard Nixon]

Now they tell me.

[Slut Bunwalla]

Now hang on, Nixon is pretty consistently blamed for Vietnam, despite being the one who ended it. It seems to me that a lot of people think Nixon started the Vietnam war. In light of that, I think it's perfectly fair to blame Obama for not ending Iraq and Afghanistan.

[GoNavy]

The difference, RMN was a republican. JFK, LBJ and Obama are Democrats.

Democrats = the party of peace

/s

[Tulpa]

Actually, Ike started the US involvement in Vietnam, so it was a Republican.

JFK and LBJ just escalated it.

[TrickyVic]

""but the blame for not ending them is all O's.""

If Bush and the neo-cons couldn't end it in 8 years, I don't expect Obama to do it in 4. The pres is in a tough position. The next one too. Keep trying, or bail? What would the republicans say if we bailed? That we are quitters? We are pretty much in a no win situation as long as we are tied to the idea that victory is a stable national government. The Afghan people are not interested that, at least in the rural areas.

Perhaps President Palin will be willing to withdraw and take the heat for quitting the war, or perhaps even she will keeping going for the next Pres.

[Nick]

Good thing I'm not a Republican and don't have to give two shits what they think or will be blamed with, etc. Get the fuck out. Now. Hunting bin Laden has nothing to do with nation or base building in Iraq or Afghanistan.

If I can say it in one paragraph, these assholes should be able to convince everyone why the obvious is clear. Obama screwed the pooch when he didn't take this approach on Day 1. He tried to be better at Bush's folly than Bush instead of correcting a problem by doing what was right. He will blame Bush for his own downfall and he'll be right to a certain degree. He refused to separate himself from the man because it's all he knew.

[TrickyVic]

""Hunting bin Laden has nothing to do with nation or base building in Iraq or Afghanistan.""

I'm not sure I would agree with that. Sure nation building should be seperate from war. But, Iraq had nation building all over it from day one. It's was about disposing a dictator and bringing a more free and better quality of life to the Iraqis. No way were we going to bomb them back to the book of Genesis and let the people suffer. That would not have served Bush's goal.

Although Afghan started as a punitive action, nation building quickly entered. Winning hearts and minds requires nation building because the citizenry will be pissed if you destroy their resources and utilities and leave them with nothing. We want the Afganis to hate the Taliban, and love us.

"" He will blame Bush for his own downfall and he'll be right to a certain degree. He refused to separate himself from the man because it's all he knew.""

I doubt it. Obama's lesson is that it's easier to throw stones in an election than to be burdened with the responsibility of the office. If anything, I bet he has a healthier respect for Bush. Just don't expect him to admit it.

With Afganistan, we should have repeated the demand for OBL every week. Call it attack and remind. We should have kept our eye on the mission at hand. But if we didn't put the Northen Alliance between OBL and Pakistan, and used US Troops, it could have been over already.

[Nick]

You quoted me, said you disagree and then gave an argument that didn't address what you quoted me as saying. I'll say it again. Hunting bin Laden has nothing to do with nation or base building in Afghanistan or Iraq. Bush's reasons for nation building in Iraq have nothing to do with bin Laden at all so all you did was tell me your feelings on why Bush did it that still has nothing to do with what I said. As for Afghanistan, I'm saying when you're dealing with a fluid, nationless enemy, nation building is unrelated to the task at hand. I can understand you disagreeing with that, and still think you're dead wrong about it.

[TrickyVic]

The reason I'm not sure that I would agree that Hunting bin Laden has nothing to do with nation or base building in Iraq or Afghanistan, is not because of my personal opinion, but because I don't know if it was part of the original plan when we invaded, or not. All I can judge is where Bush took it, and it went to nation building quickly.

I agree that it shouldn't be, but I didn't make the war plan so I don't know if it was or wasn't

[TrickyVic]

""""Hunting bin Laden has nothing to do with nation or base building in Iraq or Afghanistan.""

It shouldn't. But does it?

That's the way I was looking at it. Personally, I agree with you. It wouldn't. But my opinion has nothing to do with what the Bush admin had in mind. So I can't say two are in fact seperate when talking about what the Bush admin planned to do. It's possible that Bush appeals to the hearts and minds of the Afganis hoping they would cooperate in turning over OBL.

[John]

If Liberals has said "I think Bush was stupid to go into Iraq, but now that we are there we have to finish it and win" instead of screaming no blood for oil and fierce moral imperative and criminal wars, they would still have some credibility on the issue. But that is not what they did. If it was a "fierce moral imperative" for Bush to end the "criminal occupation of Iraq" in 2005, it was even more of one for Obama to end it in 2009.

Like the race card, Obama has maxed out the war monger card. Liberals have no moral standing to complain about either war now.

[John]

But Obama and the Dems could have ended them and have instead chose to continue one and escalate another. If you really did object to the war instead of just seeing it like you do everything as another partisan issue, you would be more angry at Obama for making people like you look like fools than Bush.

Face it, the War and every Bush policy Obama has continued are now "bi-Partisan". And if a Republican wins in 2012, you will have absolutely no standing to say shit about them continuing the war in Afghanistan.

[TrickyVic]

""Face it, the War and every Bush policy Obama has continued are now "bi-Partisan"""

Does that mean FDR's new deal is bi-partisan?

Come 2015, Obamacare, and every other Obama policy will be bi-partisan.

[John]

"Does that mean FDR's new deal is bi-partisan?"

Yes. Find me a Republican who doesn't support Social Security. The crazier parts of the New Deal were not because they were repealed when the Republicans took Congress in 1946. The parts that remain are most certainly "bi-partisan".

As for Obamacare, if a Republican President and Congress embrace it and expand it, it will most certainly be "bi-partisan" at that point. How could it not be?

[creech]

Yes. Yes it does.

[State Rape]

Does the war in Pakistan count?

[Mr. FIFY]

How many wars has Obama ended, MNG?

[Nick]

Do class wars count?

[Richard Nous]

Pakistan comes to mind, for some reason I thought progressives thought it was illegal to invade another country without sanctioning from the UN or permission from the Pakistani government.

[State Rape]

"Next you are going to tell me he didn't repeal the Patriot Act or close GUITMO."

Well no he didn't, but I'm pretty certain he put an end to DADT.

[John]

He is going to get to that right after he restores respect for America in the world.

[Mike Laursen]

Two pretty damned expensive "small" wars.

[R C Dean]

By MNG's logic, if we are still in Iraq and Afghanistan in 50 years, and have not had a single Republican President or Congressional majority that entire time, these will still be Tribe Red wars.

What's the cutoff, MNG? When does the party in power take responsibility?

[Barack Obama]

never

[TrickyVic]

""I thought those wars were going to end once the Democrats too over. ""

The Iraq war is as over as they get these days. Look at Korea for example.

[Azathoth]

Folks like John? Did John fly into any buildings? Did he order anyone to fly into any buildings?

No? Then take your head out of your ass, MNG. We did not start this.

[Brett L]

How will the TSA save us from the threat of crocs in luggage?

[Fluffy]

"I'm gettin' sick of all these motherfuckin' crocs on my motherfuckin' plane!"

[PETA]

The crocodile survived the crash, only to be dispatched with a blow from a machete.

That's horrible.

[Butts Wagner]

Found after clicking through to the croc link.

[Nick]

I call bullshit. Everyone loves bacon. The complainer just hasn't figured out that his friends don't want to visit him any more because he's a whiny twat.

[Fuck!]

Why don't the Brits just surrender to Sharia Law already and be done with it? This soap opera style shit dragging out the ending out is getting boring. Tune in next week to see if the UK bans Porky the Pig from Saturday morning cartoons.

[Nick]

John William McCormack was speaker of the house in 1963. Wikipedia says he supported the Great Society and Vietnam War. Not sure if he would have been better or worse than LBJ. He would have been the second Catholic president if the agent had killed LBJ and there would have been successive presidents from Boston. Interesting.

[J sub D]

"The Obama administration has made clear that the current structure of the government's role in housing finance, while necessary in the short-term to provide critical support to a still-fragile housing market, is simply not acceptable for the long-term," Jeffrey Goldstein, Treasury's undersecretary for domestic finance, said in a statement.

I'm gonna stop (hic) drinkin' nesht week (hic). Jusht you wait n see. I Really (hic) mean it thish time.

[J sub D]

"The Obama administration has made clear that the current structure of the government's role in housing finance, while necessary in the short-term to provide critical support to a still-fragile housing market, is simply not acceptable for the long-term," Jeffrey Goldstein, Treasury's undersecretary for domestic finance, said in a statement.

I'm gonna stop (hic) drinkin' nesht week (hic). Jusht you wait n see. I Really (hic) mean it thish time.

[capitol l]

I'm gonna stop (hic) drinkin' nesht week (hic). Jusht you wait n see. I Really (hic) mean it thish time.

Yeah, no one believes me either.

[T]

I quit caring what people thought about my drinking. It was a lot easier.

[capitol l]

I don't care either...when I'm drunk. Ha!

[Rich]

most of the government's computer-network capabilities reside within the Pentagon

Citation needed. Also needed are definitions of "computer-network", "capabilitiies", "reside within", and "Pentagon".

[P Brooks]

Bring back the mosque!

[John]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvs.....ds-newsxml

I love this Disney wants to kick Keith Richards out of the next Pirates of the Caribbean movie because his new memoir talks about all his drug use. It is Keith fucking Richards people. Are movie executives that brain dead? Did they really think Keith was just some groovy old guy? WTF?

[Keith fucking Richards]

his new memoir talks about all his drug use

Actually, it's just the shit I can remember.

[Brett L]

I have no clue. Maybe Mick has friends at Disney and this is payback for calling Mick 'Brenda'.

[Tulpa]

Kids look up to pirates as role models, so we don't want them to see them as heavy drug users.

[Butts Wagner]

pirates are heavy grog users

[Fluffy]

Anyone who needed Keith Richards to write a memoir to know the guy used drugs really is too stupid to be left in charge of a multibillion dollar media enterprise.

[John]

Anyone that stupid is too stupid to live unsupervised.

[John]

If you read the article Keith unwittingly makes a pretty good argument for ending prohibition. He attributes his longevity to always using high quality drugs and being careful. He is 67 and still a wonderful musician and seems to be in quite good health for his age. This despite decades of drug use. Kind of makes you wonder about the drug war propaganda doesn't it?

[Nick]

I would love it if Johnny Depp told them he's out unless they leave Richards in. Depp has done drugs himself and it's not really a secret. The over/under on how fast Disney caves is 1.5 seconds.

[TrickyVic]

The news is that it's news to Disney.

[Nick]

These are the people who run the ABC. Their stupidity knows no bounds.

[P Brooks]

Meanwhile, down in the briar patch, Juan Williams apparently has been offered a $2,000,000.00 contract by Fox News.

[P Brooks]

Kids look up to pirates as role models, so we don't want them to see them as heavy drug users.

Perhaps Keith can make a plea agreement to make a series of "Don't climb trees, boys and girls; it's dangerous!" public service ads for the Disney Network.

[Grant]

"Don't climb trees, boys and girls; it's dangerous! Especially if you're really high on some awesome drugs."

[Fluffy]

"If you get high enough, you can just imagine a tree! Much safer."

[hmm]

I've seen a guy roll a joint 150' up in a tree with one hand.

Now that was impressive. Maybe a little stupid, but impressive.

[Billy Mack]

Hiya kids. Here is an important message from your Uncle Bill. Don't buy drugs. Become a pop star, and they give you them for free!

[P Brooks]

Disney Network, Disney Channel; whatever.