Reason Morning Links: Wall Street Freezes Out Dems, Obama Meets With Netanyahu, Price of Stamps Likely To Rise Again

• Wall Street slows down donations to Democrats.
• U.S. Postal Service facing huge losses, plans another rate hike.
• Obama to meet with Israeli Prime Minister Netanyahu today.
• Independent candidates shaking up governors races.
• Iranian woman found guilty of adultery to be stoned to death.

Comments

[Suki]

Obama to meet with Israeli Prime Minister Netanyahu today.

An Iranian representative was not available.

[Almanian]

They're all attending the stoning of the woman mentioned in the other article.

Morning, Suki!

[Suki]

Hi Almanian!

[Fluffy]

Maybe they could invite our Saudi allies.

The Saudis would probably insist on a flogging first, though, of course. And they say that too many cooks spoil a stoning, so maybe it's better if not too many invites are sent out.

[-]

She was flogged first, as the article states. That was the first act.

[Fluffy]

Oh, OK. Shoulds RTFA. Maybe they consulted with the Saudis beforehand, then.

[Nick]

Yeah, the 99 lashes convinced her it was time to admit she committed adultery. The first 98, not so much.

[John McCain]

A revolt among big donors on Wall Street is hurting fundraising for the Democrats' two congressional campaign committees

Hey!! This fundraising is supposed to be illegal!

[Dir., Carrier Pigeon Alliance]

"This proposed rate increase amounts to another tax imposed on Americans at a time when the economy can least afford it," said Tony Conway, executive director of the Alliance of Nonprofit Mailers

I offer a reasonable alternative, for a rather modest fee.

[J sub D]

Iranian woman found guilty of adultery to be stoned to death.

Misogynistic barbarians. I'd love to see Ayatollah Ali Khamenei's head displayed on a spike in downtown Tehran.

[Fatwa Issuer]

You are the barbarian, you who trivialize the sin of dishonor.

[?]

"We have grave concerns that the punishment does not fit the alleged crime, " Assistant Secretary of State P.J. Crowley said Thursday. "For a modern society such as Iran, we think this raises significant human rights concerns."

Or, you're "concerned," P.J.? That's swell. The sounds of a weasel, the voice of an Administration. Multiculturalism rules the day. There are no objective standards of human decency.

[Nick]

It's laughable since the US has no problem imprisoning pot smokers for any length of time. What was he saying about punishment fitting the crime? Modern society? Gobs and gobs of bullshit.

[?]

Yeah, but getting stoned in America is a lot more fun.

[Nick]

If only that were our punishment for breaking laws....

[Slap the Enlightened!]

There seems to be some question about the fairness of the trial, but in principle I have no issue with draconian punishments.

Either a society is prepared to tolerate certain behaviors or it's not. And if it's not, what's the point of a rap-on-the-knuckles type punishment that won't serve as any kind of deterrent?

[The Angry Optimist]

What business is it of "society's" who is sleeping with whom?

You start from a flawed premise (that society should be able to dictate behavior that does not violate the rights of others) and naturally flow into fellating totalitarianism.

[Slap the Enlightened!]

Societies have been dictating behavior that doesn't violate the "rights" of others as long as there have been societies. Like any other club, societies have a right to define the terms of membership.

Further, in this case, your statement isn't even applicable. In the case of the adultery, the rights of the spouse were clearly violated, according to the terms of the marriage.

The flawed premise is all yours, my friend.

[Nick]

That is if you buy that she actually committed adultery, which she only confessed to after 99 lashes. In countries where the wife is subjected to torture to confess to a crime she may or may not have committed, such accusations are sometimes used by husbands who simply want out of their marriage. Can't see any possibility for abuse there. Nope. None.

[The Angry Optimist]

Societies don't have rights, StE!, individuals do.

[Slap the Enlightened!]

Sez who? That will be quite a surprise to every human society established to date.

For a guy that's studying law, you seem to be remarkably ignorant of some of it's most fundamental premises.

The reason the state punishes a crime, rather than allowing the injured party to avenge it, is the assumption is that the crime is an act against society.

Maybe you've been studying law in medieval Iceland?

[The Angry Optimist]

So, your argument is "societies have rights 'cause everyone thinks and has thought they do!"?

Excellent logical fallacy ("argument from tradition")

The reason the state punishes a crime, rather than allowing the injured party to avenge it, is the assumption is that the crime is an act against society.

Oh, that's the only reason, is it? And even if it were (which it is not), how does that make that presumption in any way valid? Because it's old?

[Slap the Enlightened!]

So, your argument is "societies have rights 'cause everyone thinks and has thought they do!"?

And they don't because you don't think they do?

Argument pulled from the suppository repository.

Oh, that's the only reason, is it? And even if it were (which it is not), how does that make that presumption in any way valid? Because it's old?

It's valid because that is the consensus of the people who have agreed to live under it. (Government by the consent of the governed - ever heard of it?)

Which is certainly a more valid reason than a presumption TAO has pulled out of his ass and decided everyone else ought to live under.

[The Angry Optimist]

It's valid because that is the consensus of the people who have agreed to live under it. (Government by the consent of the governed - ever heard of it?)

Totalitarianism by majoritarianism. Ever heard of it?

So, if the whims of 50%+1 of the electorate are enough to get a woman stoned to death for adultery, and that is somehow valid (despite its argumentum ad populum nature), what is the purpose of society? To soothe the emotional whims of the majority?

Like I said, you fellate totalitarian impulses because you have never asked yourself what the purpose of a government is - you just accept its mandates because enough of your friends and neighbors have told you to...or, even worse, you have actively joined said neighbors.

And they don't because you don't think they do?

Again, Logical Fallacies committed by you: 2. Me: 0. So, in short, yes, because I "say so". In other words, because I'm right. What, do you want me to believe something I think is wrong?

[The Angry Optimist]

In the case of the adultery, the rights of the spouse were clearly violated, according to the terms of the marriage.

Also, civilized folk do not generally approve of the death penalty for breach of a civil contract.

Frankly, you're a monster.

[Slap the Enlightened!]

You mean, in your civilization. Which isn't the only civilization on the planet. A rather large part of the planet, including some rather advanced civilizations, see the matter differently.

[The Angry Optimist]

What advanced civilizations stone people to death for adultery, StE? I would humbly submit that any tribe of backward yokels that does so is forbidden from calling themselves "civilized". And what is it about you, either personal or "intellectual" criteria, that makes you call them so?

[Slap the Enlightened!]

Iran for one. A country that's building nuclear reactors ain't exactly cavemen.

And who's forbidding them from calling themselves civilized? You?

Well, better run go tell them! I'm sure they'll be appalled!

In any event, what makes you think marriage in Iran is a civil contract? Are you studying Iranian law too?

[The Angry Optimist]

And who's forbidding them from calling themselves civilized? You?

Yes. And who's calling them civilized? You?

Well, better run go tell them! I'm sure they'll be appalled!

Relevance? And, yes, if I had the chance, I would tell them.

Iran for one. A country that's building nuclear reactors ain't exactly cavemen.

And a tribe that builds a runway and an air-control tower must be civilized, too.

[capitol l]

Shut the fuck up, slappy.

[alan]

Given a core principle of our society is tolerance, should we not stone to death those who advocate intolerance, the likes of what you have just done?

[Slap the Enlightened!]

Given a core principle of our society is tolerance

Sez who? I don't see that anywhere in the constitution. IIRC, flogging was still a legal punishment in Delaware until 1972. Killing a Mormon was still legal in Missouri until 1976.

should we not stone to death those who advocate intolerance, the likes of what you have just done?

If you're willing to bet that you can throw stones harder and more accurately than I can, try your luck.

In any event, I fail to see what tolerance has to do with this. I simply stated that if a society saw fit to punish a crime, I don't have a problem with making that punishment effective. What's the point of ineffective punishments?

[The Angry Optimist]

Fine. Speeders will be shot in the head without trial by the cop who pulled them over. You never break the law, so you have nothing to worry about...

[capitol l]

Good thing we don't stone inbred morons to death in America, or we wouldn't have the pleasure of slappy's idiotic commentary.

[alan]

I played baseball in college, and still can throw a damn good 90 mph curve ball, why the Hell do you think I challenged you to it in the first place?

[alan]

Note, I was cut for being difficult to play with, difficult for a baseball player.

[The Angry Optimist]

well, StE, the board has taken a vote, and has decided that you should be stoned for your intolerance. And there's nothing you can do because societies have been deciding this since the Dawn of Man and we all voted, you see...

[Slap the Enlightened!]

Well, now that you've taken your vote, let's see how you do at enforcing your judgement.

I suspect the worst I'll have to fear is being squirted to death by contingent of hysterical douchbags.

[The Angry Optimist]

Interesting that the only retort you can come up with to a sentence passed by standards you advocated are to say "Come and get me!"

In other words, the only thing holding us back is the ability to find you and kill you ---- not some stronger moral imperative. Nice thoughts of your fellow man you've got there.

[Slap the Enlightened!]

Interesting that the only retort you can come up with to a sentence passed by standards you advocated are to say "Come and get me!"

Sentences only count when they're passed by someone with the authority to execute them.

In other words, the only thing holding us back is the ability to find you and kill you ---- not some stronger moral imperative.

Oh, I'm easy enough to find, if you really want to. But you're right, I'm not counting on a stronger moral imperative for my safety. I'm counting on the fact that a guy who evokes the image of odd-socks on, fly open and a piece of toilet paper stuck to his shoe will prolly be more of a danger to himself than he will be to anyone else.

Cheers!

[The Angry Optimist]

Cute - when in doubt, insult my manliness and social skills. How pathetic!

[capitol l]

I wouldn't read too much into slappy's false bravado, TAO.

This is a guy who thinks that just because his inflatable realdoll? pops every time he beats the shit out of "her", that he is Chuck Norris, or something.

[Eric]

Defending the "right" of society to stone a woman to death because some goatfuckers thinks it's just dandy. Charming. BTW, it's telling that virtually no civilization on Earth uses your ludicrous majoritarian argument in such stark terms: they usually have to spruce it up with some reference to God or the environment or national pride or progress or some such non-sequitur, but good on you for unabashedly advocating your belief in this unadulterated vision of human control. (Also, I doubt the legitimacy of any vote in Iran, but that's just me and, oh, Freedom House and every other respected institution that analyzes elections.

This is the Edge of the Internet, folks.

[barfman]

*barf*

[zoltan]

Come now, we all know Slap the Enlightened got cheated on and now thinks all the Arab and Persian women in the world need to suffer as a result of his heartbreak.

[prolefeed]

Killing a Mormon was still legal in Missouri until 1976.

Link needed.

[Slap the Enlightened!]

Here ya go!

[P Brooks]

A revolt among big donors on Wall Street is hurting fundraising for the Democrats' two congressional campaign committees, with contributions from the world's financial capital down 65 percent from two years ago.

Who could possibly have foreseen this?

[SugarFree]

The ego is still going strong.

If you can't stomach the whole thing, just scroll down to comment #55.

[R C Dean]

Could you just cut 'n' paste, pretty please?

[SugarFree]

OK, but the context of the thread is funnier...

# joe from Lowell says:
July 2nd, 2010 at 11:02 am

MarkOhio,

If you don't give a crap whether we return to the policies that caused this disaster, or not, that's on you.

I have absolutely no intention of being so irresponsible, and absolutely will not shut up.

joe not commenting on a blog would be irresponsible of him. The whole economic recovery rests squarely on his shoulders.

[sage]

The whole economic recovery rests squarely on his shoulders.

We're doomed.

[Solanum]

The whole economic recovery rests squarely on his shoulders

So our economic recovery is resting about four and a half feet off the ground?

[Warty]

joe from Lowell says:
July 2nd, 2010 at 11:02 am
MarkOhio,

If you don't give a crap whether we return to the policies that caused this disaster, or not, that's on you.

I have absolutely no intention of being so irresponsible, and absolutely will not shut up.

And here's joe's favorite chart, which proves that Republicans must be rounded up and shot.

[sage]

What a pretty trend line. So clean. Obama's out there doing God's work.

[SugarFree]

Oh, the comments on the chart thread are divine. Especially the ones that argue that unemployment checks are stimulating the economy.

[joe]

Hey, they're stimulating my economy!

[Warty]

You must be as calm as Socrates to be able to read Yglesias comment threads without choking a bitch.

[SugarFree]

Actually, I was talking about the comments on that Kos thread you posted. Yglesias comments read like the minutes from the Council of Sages compared to Kos.

[John]

I tell people on here, Chad and Tony are intelligent for liberals. If you don't believe me, go read a KOS thread sometime.

[Warty]

The insufferability of that thread measures 1.8 yglesias.

[The Angry Optimist]

you really want to choke, go read a Slog comment thread, where the full-bore dumbass Commie Hipsters of Seattle come out to play.

[SugarFree]

"Hempfest Gives Up on Adding Third Day"

Slog is awesome.

[Warty]

We can no longer act as if there's more than one reason for the current block on unemployment insurance for 1.2 million Americans. That one reason is the Republicans want the economy to collapse?meaning, they want Obama to fail. They have no other political or economic program than the implementation of anything that can induce this failure. They know there's no going back to Bush, they are daily seeing an unkillable spill expose to all the terrifying limits of free market fundamentalism, and they are totally aware of the fact that only in dreams can a balanced budget rise out of the current and deep recession. The hole that's left by this lack of any realistic plan or alternative has been filled by one hope: America fails.

Not awesome. I expect more from a crappy alt-weekly than NIHLIZM!!!

[obligatory quote]

Nihilists! Fuck me. I mean, say what you like about the tenets of National Socialism, Dude, at least it's an ethos.

[zoltan]

Whaaaat? I rarely see economics on Slog threads--though I only read the comments on the actual advice column.

[capitol l]

From the kos, chart thread:

First

society today doesn't give a damn anymore. Its all about me. Whats in it for me. If there isn't something in it for me, who cares?

That is what is sad. 24 hour news has created this. They should be ashamed of themselves.

A question for the poster

24 news created SELFISHNESS?

I was wondering that also, maybe the original poster will provide some cogent information that proves his claim in an illuminating fashion

Watch the BBC series "The Centry of the Self"

You can google it. It's 4 parts.

It explains how leaders and corporations transformed US society from needs based consumers to desire based consumers. And how FDR tried to create a groupthink of community while the corporate power structure tried to create a groupthink of selfish individualism.

And how BOTH political parties have to now cater to the selfish individualism that pervades American culture thanks to tens of billions of dollars of propaganda and decades of methodical psychological manipulation.

Or maybe not.

[The Angry Optimist]

lolzers - joe is calling it the "Bush Recession."

[brotherben]

If joe lived in California, he would be lobbying to change the name of the San Andreas to the Bush Fault.

[PR]

it's good to see joe is still the hardest working man in government business. the taxpayers in Lowell certainly get their moneys worth.

[-]

John could give him a run for the title.

[SugarFree]

Speaking of the Yggy thread... Are any of you "Otis The Sweaty"? Because that guy is funny.

[Warty]

One of them called him a nihilist. Lulz abound.

[joe from Lowell]

I LOOM large, bitches!

[2010 Voter]

the independent campaigns and plausible prospects for gubernatorial candidates in Rhode Island, Massachusetts and Maine reflect a rebellion

Replace all incumbents with independents or third-partiers if possible. At least replace all incumbents.

[#]

Unless something wierd happens, RI is the only one that has a good shot at winning. And that really a non incumbant... its Lincoln Cheffey who is really a dem, but had to be a republican cause his father was and he was appointed to his dads seat.

[Mike M.]

Gulf Coast held hostage, day 78:
tar balls now washing ashore in Texas.

[Nick]

I guess the Dutch equipment just wasn't union friendly enough. It probably gets the job done efficiently or something.

[P Brooks]

Many Democrats said they first noticed the retrenchment from Wall Street in early 2009, when Obama and congressional leaders began denouncing what they considered excesses that caused the 2008 financial collapse.

Coincidence.

[SugarFree]

Yay! Lexington's in the news!

[PantsFan]

Any rocket launchers?
FIRE IN THE HOLE!

[dbcooper]

Which member of the Crowder clan is SugarFree?

[Atanarjuat]

Awesome that whoever wrote that column is pretending to be unaware that Rand Paul has been accused of racism, and is shocked, SHOCKED that they put the word on a t-shirt.

[Fluffy]

They know exactly what the joke is and their claim to not know is extremely disingenuous.

But I guess we could predict they would act that way when someone took the direct approach to defusing their favorite bomb.

That's the real problem with going to the well too many times. If you use false accusations to try to make people feel guilty, eventually people start to say, "Fuck you. Fine. You're right. What else you got?"

[Warty]

"How dare they not surrender when accused of racism?"

[Warty]

That shouldn't be a question. Fuckin' A, I should have had some more lovely, lovely drugs this morning.

[Cyto]

Comment from "ED" about the "yep, I'm a racist" T-shirts on the article site:

If you are confused about the events that have preceded these shirts, if you are unaware of the instances of bogus reports of racism at Tea Party rallies or the orchestrated claims of Emanuel Cleaver being spit upon at a health care protest or the $100,000 reward issued by Andrew Brietbart for anyone who could produce a video of said event?CLEARLY YOU WAY TO UNINFORMED TO BE WRITING ABOUT THIS ISSUE.

[sage]

I can see November from here.

[R C Dean]

Me, too. I see a 90% re-election rate. What do you see?

[Joe Biden]

A big fucking deal!

[John]

I don't think so. Sadly, it will be around 75% or 80%. But, even an 80% will mean 100 incumbents being flushed. The shock and awe among Congress critters should be quite delightful.

[The Angry Optimist]

Care to make it interesting, John?

[Nick]

What was the % flip in 2006? This will be at least as big, I think.

[Kolohe]

It was 94% in '06, 90% in '94, and hasn't been below 85% in the lifetime of most anybody here.

http://www.opensecrets.org/bigpicture/reelect.php

It will be 90-95% again this year, even if House control switches parties.

[Nick]

9% is enough to switch control and since we aren't going to get 100 new libertarians in office this year, gridlock between Congress and the President is the best we can hope for.

[Almanian]

Unfortunately (in this case), I'm quite sure RC's right.

[sage]

Well, I see hope (yet again) that a mass of voters will come to their senses. But I've been seeing that for many elections - I'm great at picking losers.

[Eric]

Are bullet points one and three connected?

[P Brooks]

absolutely will not shut up.

No shit.

[Almanian]

So Remington releases a its new Model 1911 R1. Nicely priced and seems to shoot well based on the reviews.

Since it's Tuesday, I've decided I must have one. Off to my favorite 2nd Amendment fun shop.

[Lamar]

I'm going to wait until they work out the bugs.

[brotherben]

I was in a local gunshop last week. He had a large clunky looking semi-auto in a .40 S&W for $195.98 new in the box. Out the door. I can't remember the brand. The price sure caught my eye.

[Almanian]

Meh - I'll just download the patches when they're made available, and...

No, wait a minute....

[Lamar]

I'm sure Remington has done a bang up job! (OK, sorry sorry sorry)

[Felipe Calder?n]

Obama and Netanyahu to hold fence-mending talks

?Bastardos!

[MP]

Chafee and Crist show that Independent != Outsider (not equal, for all you non-geeks). Show me real Independents, not these career political d-bags.

[MP]

NFL Star Busted for Codeine

JaMarcus is a loser of a QB, but Codeine? I didn't even know that stuff was prescription only. Our drug laws are completely disconnected from reality (yeah, I know, news flash!) if we're strictly regulating Codeine.

[Warty]

Good thing no one told Jamarcus about coca tea, I guess.

[Fluffy]

I guarantee you this is somehow the Raiders' doing.

Please god, pretty please, have an asteroid hit the Raiders' stadium. Preferably while the Colts are there. Thanks.

[Lamar]

I thought you were allowed to do drugs if you played for the Raiders. Maybe he lost his immunity when they released him?

[Brett L]

You're thinking of the Cowboys.

[Lamar]

I looked it up, and you're right.

[SugarFree]

More fun from Yglesias:

David Carr makes an excellent point about the departure of my friend Dave Weigel from The Washington Post

[John]

http://www.breitbart.com/artic....._article=1

Don't make a sex tape in Indonesia.

[John]

And it may be illegal, but they seem to have a better quality of celebrity making sex tapes over there than here. Google the two women involved, Cut Tari and Luna Maya. OMG.

[Warty]

I've yet to see a woman of white-asian ancestry who wasn't gorgeous.

[Nick]

Do you think we could slap burqas on Hilary and Nancy and get an even trade? We really need to start importing that kind of hot.

[brotherben]

If the burqas are leather or vinyl you can send those two to me!

[Warty]

His women are too good for him.

[Fluffy]

In fact, I think we can probably extend that advice and say: Just don't do anything in Indonesia if you can avoid it.

[SugarFree]

Two of the girls in the videos: Luna Maya and Cut Tari. SFW

[SugarFree]

Warty!!!

[Warty]

Your picture of Luna is babelier.

[brotherben]

Amen! and Amen.

[Steve Nash Equilibrium]

Well done Indonesian rock star guy. Well done.

[zoltan]

Ahh, it's good to be in America, where good-looking women don't have to fuck small-dicked dudes in sex tapes to really get famous.

[P Brooks]

They know exactly what the joke is and their claim to not know is extremely disingenuous.

My reaction, as well.

Willful ignorance and feigned astonishment; "Whu-whu-whut?"

[Warty]

Coupled with some "How dare they! I used the magic word!" indignation.

[Lamar]

Men at Work were thieves, and the 80s were a lie.

http://www.orlandosentinel.com.....8386.story

[SugarFree]

But the penalty ? 5 percent of the song's royalties ? was far less than the 60 percent sought by publishing company Larrikin Music, which holds the copyright for the song "Kookaburra Sits in the Old Gum Tree."

Joke's on them. Men At Work spent all their money on Vegamite and cocaine years ago.

[Warty]

Disparaging the boot is a bootable offense!

[Scooby]

It's 5% of the royalties since 2002 (everything before was excluded by a statute of limitations). That should amount to pocket change, unless there's been a lot of MP3 downloads of the song to replace vinyl and cassette tapes.

[Lamar]

Ouch. I didn't realize the statute of limitations angle.

[Almanian]

the 80s were a lie

Say it no true, say it no true!!

[-]

the 80s were a lie

What does that even mean?

[Lamar]

It means that what we thought was quintessentially 80s was not 80s at all.

[The 80s]

But that is quintessential me.

[chatroulette]

Daddy?

[Almanian]

+1

[Happy Birthday, Fuck You]

WTF? The song "ripped off" is 70 years old. No sane copyright laws would allow squatting on such stuff for so long.

[Flyover Country]

News from the right to bear arms front:

http://www.weau.com/home/headlines/97715249.html

[Nick]

FTA: The Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence says Fox is inviting crime into Jackson County and if he won't enforce the state's laws, he should be removed from office.

Really? He's inviting crime in Jackson County by telling the whole world the citizens of Jackson County will be out and about with guns ready to defend themselves? The Brady Campaign doesn't seem to understand the mindset of criminals, probably because they assume everyone with a gun is a criminal.

[?]

I've yet to see a woman of white-asian ancestry who wasn't gorgeous.

It almost always works. But when it doesn't, holeee shit.
There's a family down the street from me, a pretty Japanese lady and a guy who looks like Hugh Grant. Both their daughters look like the guy from Napoleon Dynamite with his glasses off.

[Almanian]

"I brought you a delicious bass...cause I know Japanese like sushi..."

[alan]

You would think that half Jewish, half Cuban would be an awesome combination in theory, but in practice, not so much. A little Margaret Carlson looking actually, but a real swell gal otherwise.

Hof a thing, she was recently in the news for winning the vile puns category of the Bulwer-Lytton Fiction Contest . . .

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2010/6/30/163449/886

[Joe M]

Lincoln Chafee comes from a long line of Rhode Island governors, three in the previous four generations, all of them Republicans. Now the former Republican senator and mayor of Warwick is running for governor himself.

As an independent.

For anyone that thinks this supposed independent stuff is in any way a change of pace, the lead of the article should destroy that hope.

In fact, this is just the opposite. People are picking different candidates than the "approved" ones, who are then forced to run as independents to stay in the race. They'll still get massive funding from all the usual suspects. Sad, really.

[?????]

thanks