Akbar and Jeff Shrugged

A cartoon from Barry Deutsch. I suspect his encounters with libertarians tend to take place in blog comment threads. I also suspect that Hit & Run's commenters could come up with a dozen-plus categories he missed, along with the requisite jokes at their/our expense. You could start with the gold bug, the aging hipster, the sleuth on the trail of the Kochspiracy, the guy who blames the government for his personal problems, several flavors of self-promoting autodidacts, Dondero…

Barry Deutsch

Update: A commenter notes that this classic Peter Bagge strip makes a good companion piece.

Comments

[J Mann]

"Arrogant" is kind of hot.

[Esoteric]

I knew that girl in law school. (The arrogant libertarian.) She used to write inspirational messages on her knuckles, that's how confident in herself she was.

It was both utterly repulsive and strangely beguiling. What can I say? I'm strongly attracted to the libertarian crazy.

[Mike]

Did she tell stories about Brother Love and Brother Hate?

[Warty]

My kill hand's tattooed E.V.I.L. across its brother's fist
That filthy five! They did nothing to challenge or resist.

[x,y]

A libertarian woman? Surely you jest.

[ClubMedSux]

For the record, I think my wife self-identified as libertarian before I did.

[Esoteric]

Indeed, they do exist.

[Astrid]

Hey, there are a few of us.

[Yonemoto]

And most of you are hot, judging by the attendance at the Silver Circle meetup.

[TallDave]

The question is: will they be on the cruise?

[prolefeed]

The question is: will they be on the cruise?

I predict a sausagefest on the cruise.

[Yonemoto]

I'm guessing that most of them, alas, were interns, so won't be able to afford going on the cruise. SO NOW WE KNOW WHY REASON ADVOCATES FOR INTERNS NOT TO BE PAID.

[TallDave]

I'm going to shave my frum, just in case.

[pandora's box is smokin']

Yes, x,y, there are libertarian women.

[Mandolin]

FWIW, there was a goldbug in the original draft of the strip, which ended up getting cut because other ideas seemed funnier...

[ClubMedSux]

I'm thinking "seemed" is the operative word.

[Mandolin]

Not really.

[jj]

I tried to like the cartoon, but realized as I read it that it was just a pictorialization of all the ill-informed accusations made against libertarians. It really doesn't feel like a criticism of libertarianism from within.

[robc]

This.

[Stevo Darkly]

Ditto.

Or +1, or whatever the kids do these days to indicate agreement.

[SugarFree]

A cartoon from Barry Deutsch.

Aptly named.

[MP]

Hey! I got there first.

[SugarFree]

Sorry, I didn't read the overnights.

[Barry Deutsch]

Actually, a lot of kids I knew in the first grade got there decades before you did.

[affenkopf]

Racist.

[SugarFree]

Some of my very best friends are German.

[Max]

Yeah, but as a German, I have to back you up: Then you have ample evidence that the majority of Germans are far from Libertarian, even the Conservatives in Germany are more Democrats than Republicans. Though one could make a case for most of the parties that where elected by about 60 % of the Germans are Democrats or left of the Democrats.

The rest of the non-election people where me and some Libertarian oddities and probalby all of the poor people who didn't care by whom they were ruled and ripped-off (poor extending from 0 to 150.000 ?/year).

[TallDave]

Two words: legal prostitution.

[SugarFree]

The confusion might have be that I'm not making fun of him for being German, but rather because his name rhymes with "Douche" in half-ass American pronunciation.

I'd never go after the Germans, they make most of the beer and cars I love. (And Grandma Kurtz would spin in her grave.)

[Tomcat1066]

Is it just me, or does the Petulant one look like Dave Weigel?

[Mike G]

That is some funny shit! Oh wait, I was just smoking my libertarian dope. That is incredibly unfunny and only marginally related to actual reality!

[jj]

Agreed. It's what I would imagine Weigel would put together if he was into drawing.

[hmm]

No troll representation. Whiskey Tango Foxtrot?

[SugarFree]

Well, he was building elaborate strawmen from libertarians, not of all the characters of the Reason board.

But I will say he's got all the leftist talking points down. I see at least 4 ways to fill out the Bingo Board.

[hmm]

Trolls are an integral part of libertarianism. What other bastion of pure disdain is there! You haven't lived until you've trolled about an LP convention IRL.

[roy]

Wow, new Reason drinking bingo!
+1

[highnumber]

You're missing the forest for the trees. They're ALL trolls.

[Stevo Darkly]

Speaking of "Trees," he left out The Rush Fan.

(Not that Rush -- the three Canadians.)

[trixie]

this is so funny, you are so funny. when I try to be funny I am never funny like you.

that's the problems with reason. you keep trying too hard to be hip. it smacks of silly self indulgence. Go hug a tree.

[SugarFree]

Learn where the shift key is and we'll talk.

[trixie]

Okay. I get it, you like patriarchal convention of beginning sentences with capital letters. I choose different for stylistic reasons, but you have a problem with that.

But seriously, or at least close. Barry Deutsch cartoons make me feel a little sick every time I see one. I always understand it and why he thinks the way he does. But the guy must be so acidic and joyless to draw such things.

Come again, he is exactly like the folks here at reason, hah!

[John]

I really can't argue.

[Sam Grove]

Well, you appear to like the "patriarchal convention" of closing sentences with periods and separating paragraphs with a space.

What have you got against initial caps?

[Stevo Darkly]

Actually, periods are more of a woman thing.

[Barry Deutsch]

You and you alone truly understand the arid desert that is my soul, Trixie.

[prolefeed]

Okay. I get it, you like patriarchal convention of beginning sentences with capital letters. I choose different for stylistic reasons, but you have a problem with that.

She says, in a post entirely composing of sentences beginning with capital letters.

Irony deficient win!

[Tonio]

I think the Caps Lock key would be more appropriate for this one, Sug.

[Warty]

This is the second infestation of feminist in a week. I blame you, SugarFree.

[SugarFree]

I'm like a thick, rich vein for the ticks of victimology to hitch a ride on into the board.

[Episiarch]

Well, you do always have a lot of ticks on you, so the comparison is apt, though I know for a fact you don't have a thick, rich "vein". Go ahead. Ask me how I know.

[SugarFree]

Well, you probably did get a good look at it when I was pissing in your mouth. At least before I moved onto your eyes.

[Episiarch]

You know, you could have drunk more water and eaten more asparagus. You moved on to my eyes way too soon.

[sage]

Thanks for the visual.

[Meatsack]

I had a friend get a woodtick on his dick. He asked me to help him remove it, which I did. We are both straight, but looking back (it's been at least 20 years) that would have been a great story line for some gay porn.

[Van]

The punchline is "The Doc says you're going to die."

[prolefeed]

Actually, your handle "Meatsack" would be a great title for gay porn.

[Rich]

Ummm .... Drink?

[ClubMedSux]

I believe that calling someone out for smacking of silly self-indulgence itself smacks of silly self-indulgence.

[AA]

+1

[Fluffy]

I would have been happy to pose for the drawing of the self-promoting autodidact.

[T]

What, and deny Penn Jillette his rightful place in the pantheon? You monster, you.

BTW, anybody who claims to be an autodidact is a pretentious fucker. They may be right, but it's still pretentious as hell.

[Van]

Teaching oneself is pretentious? or claiming to be an autodidact?

[T]

Claiming to be an autodidact is the pretentious part. Teaching yourself strikes me as inevitable if you have much of an intellect.

I just usually tell people I read a lot of books.

[Van]

I would like one word to describe it, that anyone could understand.

"Sovereign Learner"
"Autodidact"
"Self Taught"

Leave people looking at you like, "What did he just say?"

[Meatsack]

What's up with your internalized autodidactiphobia, T?

[JD]

What if you do it in a self-deprecating way? "I'm a self-made man, thereby demonstrating once again the perils of using unskilled labor." -- Harlan Ellison

[Van]

Or, I am not EMPLOYED sir, I am a GENTLEMAN!
-- Anonymus

[Fluffy]

Yup. Guilty as charged.

You know why I know that? Because I read a biography of Lincoln. Not in school or anything - I found one in a garbage pit and taught myself to read it. I think the fact that I came to the material myself and not through the intermediary of a teacher lends me unique insight. I see everything with fresh eyes.

[Van]

"Unique Insight?", you have a problem with authority Fluffy. I prescribe Ritalin for you!

[Episiarch]

I think the didactic element here is: what were you doing in the garbage pit?

[Fluffy]

Raising myself up from nothing using nothing but my own resources and found-art objects.

As I was required to do in order to be a genuine individual, and not merely a parasitical product of society's generosity and bounty caught up in the self-serving delusion that I was a person.

[Episiarch]

You're a person? From your handle, I always assumed you were some psychic dog like Blood from A Boy and His Dog or possibly a super-intelligent Siamese cat with double paws that allowed you to use them like thumbs for full prehensile grip.

[Fluffy]

Well, I meant "person" in the philosophical sense.

[Sudden]

I found a hustler in a garbage can when I was a boy. Would that make me an autoeroticdidact?

[Van]

Did you learn anything?

[Van]

"I am completely library educated. I've never been to college.........
I used to steal magazines from a store...., and read them and then steal them back on the racks again........But with the library, it's like catnip, I suppose: you begin to run around in circles because there's so much to look at and read."

-- Ray Bradbury, The Paris Review Spring 2010

[Guns for babies]

Ummmm dude, you forgot the ratfuckers!!!

[DADIODADDY]

mice, I only fuck mice.

[Agammamon]

Damn, I served in the Navy for 2 decades but do they call me Agga the Sailor? I built an underwater pipleine but do they call me Agga the pipe-layer? Hell no.

But I fuck ONE rat . . .

[Esoteric]

Reason needs to show this guy that they're better at coming up with funny libertarian stereotypes than he is.

[Warren]

The "Cosmotarian". The freshly minted "Cafertarian"

[Almanian]

"Caferterian" - I don't care who you are, that's STILL funny.

Again, Warren, a grateful blogosphere thanks you.

[The Art-P.O.G.]

I agree. There's gold in them thar hills.

[Esoteric]

We need a name for a Weigel-like fake 'libertarian.' The Agent-Provocateurian?

[SugarFree]

There's already "Fakeatarian."

[Episiarch]

Conway Twitty-tarian

[Fluffy]

"Anybody But Rockwell", or an ABR for short.

[Meatsack]

homotarian

[heller]

Shouldn't it be Cafetarian???

[Warren]

No it should not. Now tow the lion.

[P Brooks]

I think I hurt myself when I fell off my chair laughing. Save, me, Government!

[DADIODADDY]

Hence forth only the gummint will decree what is and is not funny, all applications for humorous postings must be passed for approval by the funny utilization and conservation committee...as we all know humor is a precious resource necessary to the national security and can't be wasted...so only thiose things that are fuccing funny will hence forth be allowed, no more of this lame ass shit.

[Byron]

R.I.P. Friday Funnies.

[brm]

I consider myself to be an Agrarian Practicalist rather than a Libertarian, but I know a few L's. I don't know any racist Libertarians, so the "whitey" type must have been thrown in when the artist confused Libertarians with Liberals, of whom I have met several who are racists.

[MemeGuy]

Racist!

[Van]

There is only one way to be a Libertarian!

The way defined by our glorious Leader!

All others must be defeated!

[Rich]

Meh. Not a monocle in the bunch.

[Warren]

Heh. Good one.

[Astrid]

No top hat wearers either! What gives?

[SugarFree]

And where are the top hats?

[Astrid]

Damn it, you beat me SugarFree.

[SugarFree]

Boredom at work gives me powers. Fearsome powers.

[Astrid]

You twisting your evil libertarian mustache while saying that, weren't you?

[SugarFree]

I need no embellishments. Everything I say is always done with evil overtone. I literally sit in a pool of darkness in an otherwise bright room. I tell people it's so I can see the colors on my monitors better when I edit photos, but no one's fooled.

[Fluffy]

He probably didn't even type the message, but paid sub-minimum wage to a child laborer and made THEM type it.

[Astrid]

Can't you outsource that sort of thing to India now?

[SugarFree]

Curses!

[rac]

Why can't I be all those things? I want my Maypo!!!

[SugarFree]

They left out the political pornographer. 🙁

[Yonemoto]

That's because you haven't been posting any political pornongraphy here. Pay up or shut up =)

[SugarFree]

I try to let it be an organic process, to not force it. Like the strained non-humor of the cartoon I don't want it to get stale and boring.

[Yonemoto]

Touche. I will learn to be patient, and tonight, will go to your website and fap away to old issues.

[The Art-P.O.G.]

You're the only one there is, so would "political pornographer" be a type, or would it merely be a reference to the legendary SugarFree? Also, I'm tempted to say Dondero's a denial-ican.

[SugarFree]

Groovus, Episiarch, and others have poliporned in these threads. And think of the vast number of people who participated in the Lonewhacko novel.

[The Art-P.O.G.]

Oh, good point. Lonewacko: The Novel was exceptional. And did you just coin the term "poliporn"? Nice.

[SugarFree]

No, it's been floating around since Clinton, I think.

[Marshall Gill]

Groovus, Episiarch, and others have poliporned in these threads.

You are being too modest. When compared to your utterly disgusting depravity, few stand in the darkness.

[Yonemoto]

If by disgusting you mean sexy.

[Episiarch]

The LoneWacko Novel was not "poliporn", it was a hypothetical narrative based on true events that would have happened if LoneWacko lived his life as he lived his blog in the manner that we imagined it to be so, and with my oversight and direction.

I hope that clears things up, because I have my Semiotics of Semi-erotic Attack Fiction to go to.

[Episiarch]

...my Semiotics of Semi-erotic Attack Fiction class at the Learning Annex to go to.

Maybe I should join NutraSweet in Typing 101 and Completing Sentences while I'm at it.

[SugarFree]

Bitch, ain't nobody better at danglin' participles than me.

[Episiarch]

...which is why you got arrested for indecent exposure of syntactic entities, but you got lucky and avoided the grammatical offender list. Which, by the way, one is on for life.

[SugarFree]

Not cool, dude! That dependent clause told me she was 18!

[Episiarch]

No, it didn't. You just associated it with the wrong dependent object, you idiot. No wonder your lawyer wouldn't let you speak in your own defense.

[SugarFree]

"I'm just a simple country Hyper-Chicken from a backwoods asteroid."

[The Art-P.O.G.]

This exchange is magnificent. I just had to point that out.

[Citizen Nothing]

24 types?. I didn't think there were 24 of us in total.

[Bean Counter]

Harsh!! Funny and accurate, but Harsh!

[DADIODADDY]

24 personalities per person...minimum

[T]

I only have 13. Can I still be in the club?

[Douche from NYT Commercial]

I'm fluent in THREE personalities...

[Almanian]

+24

[sage]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

[Fernando]

Keep in mind that this cartoonist is very, very anti-libertarian and is a pretty terrible cartoonist on his own right. Read the rest of his site if you want a good idea as to how completely off the reservation he is.

[Yonemoto]

He forgot the libertarian environmentalist that volunteers for the poor every week. Because something like that would fucking blow his head up.

[Liberty_Equality_Solidarity]

Isn't that in the left-wing grouping?

[Yonemoto]

Hm. And it's remotely asian. Well done, sir.

[Yonemoto]

...my fb profile says conservative, but I think that's a throwback to when I had this image in my mind that I would be banging conservative chicks.

[Van]

I noticed that when I went to the website and it furrowed my brow.

[ClubMedSux]

I'm looking forward to the "24 Types of Political Cartoonists" cartoon he does. Let's see, there's "Not Funny," and, um... little help?

[rac]

You forgot "Not Funee!"

[Steve Nash Equilibrium]

Really Not Funny, Really, Really Not Funny, So Not Funny I'm Tempted to Poke My Eyes Out with a Pencil,..., Cartoonists Who Draw Friday Funnies.

[Harrigan]

"Off the reservation?" Isn't that racist? 🙂

[Fluffy]

They also left out the Otters.

[sage]

"Consistent" looks like a cross between Calvin and Pinnocchio.

[Jesse Walker]

And "Stoned" looks like a panel from an early Doonesbury strip. Though I'm not sure if the person giggling is Duke or Zonker.

[T]

Early Doonesbury, it's definitely Zonker.

[rob claus]

I like the denial-ican. I've always wondered why Objectivists seem to vote Republican. Shouldn't they be just as offended by the religious right as by the liberal left?

[The Angry Optimist]

Leonard Peikoff endorsed John Kerry in 2004 for that reason.

[Fatty Bolger]

Just as offended on an intellectual level, maybe, but not as fearful of the real world consequences. Real world liberal policies are considered to be more sweeping & dangerous and much more likely to be implemented. Besides, the courts have been a pretty effective safeguard of liberty in religous matters. The same can't be said for secular issues.

[?]

The "denial-ican" (really?) is in a rare vintage Hanna-Barbera immovable-pattern shirt. Must be a re-used hipster from another strip. And the "24 types" are three types, repeated a bunch of times. Is the whole thing a Hanna-Barbera joke?

[Bill C]

"I suspect his encounters with libertarians tend to take place in blog comment threads"

I suspect the strip has little to do with his personal experience or any genuine sense of libertarians. That Reason continues to believe that liberal critics are mostly motivated by anything other than a desire to smear and belittle ideological opponents is just naive.

Perhaps Reason should caricature liberals and see what their response would be. I'm sure there are a few libertarian angles Hannity/O'Reilly et al have missed. See if the "progressives" will appreciate the the caricature and place it on their websites.

I'm doubtful and suspect another charge of racism would shortly follow. We were useful allies during the Bush years... in the age of Obama we're just another obstacle to be attacked and caricatured while those liberal p____s make apologies for Obama's flip flops on civil liberties and escalation of war.

[Chinny Chin Chin]

Perhaps Reason should caricature liberals

The resident liberal trolls are caricature enough.

[Chinny Chin Chin]

Perhaps Reason should caricature liberals

Our resident lefty trolls are caricature enough in their own right.

[Marshall Gill]

Our resident lefty trolls are caricature enough in their own right.

Aren't they? Sometimes you just can't improve upon the real thing.

[Artifex]

Perhaps Reason should caricature liberals and see what their response would be

I had considered this, but it makes me feel vaguely guilty, sort of like teasing the that nice, mentally handicapped guy that lives in the group home down the street (not that there is anything wrong with that). Doing caricatures of libertarians is like talking shit with friends, they can all look after themselves pretty well.

Besides, I think there are many fewer varieties of Liberals. Libertarians seem to be unabashedly open minded about pursuing their own opinions no matter how right or wrong and cover the cognitive map. Liberals are herd creatures and the same old doublethink and cognitive dissonance are just burdens to even the most creative of us during the mocking process. Unfortunately it tends to be more pathetic than funny.

[Yonemoto]

There are two varieties of liberals. Obama worshippers and those who realize he's a crock of shit.

[prolefeed]

You forgot those leftists who are pissed at Obama because they think he is just barely left of Bushitler.

[P Brooks]

mice, I only fuck mice.

You evil size-ist patriarchal oppressor!

[James Ard]

And some of you guys dream of a left-libertarian coalition.

[The Art-P.O.G.]

Deep down inside we know neither major party wants to coalesce with the libertarians. Maybe they'd like to co-opt.

[Bill C]

The latest example of despicable hypocrisy and grassroots Democrats worshiping politics over policies- Attacking Rand Paul for wanting to scale back commitments in Europe. Yes liberals are even attacking us for stuff they would have applauded us two years ago.

More evidence that civil liberties et al were just a bludgeon to bash Republicans and Bush with rather than genuine beliefs. The only thing they care about is seizing the political machinery for themselves and rationalizing away their behavior to their base by chanting "Obamacare" and if that doesn't work..."not Republicans".

[John]

And you thought they had shame? They would attack him for being weak on terrorism and wanting to close GUITMO if they thought it would get them elected. And they would do it with out batting an eye or losing any sleep.

[Fluffy]

What a fucking douche.

I don't know what's funnier:

That's he trumpets the fact that Conway is "only 7 points down" now - when Conway used to be only 4 points down, so that means Paul is pulling away -

Or the fact that his argument for why Paul is wrong is the fact that we "logistically" need the Europe bases to support the war in Afghanistan. Even though that's the war that Obama has said will be over next year. And even though the "overseas empire" is always a Democrat bogeyboo when a non-Democrat is in office.

What a piece of crap.

[Bill C]

You know how they like to call us tools for the corporations when it comes down to it?

I guess we can now call them tools of military industrial complex and specifically... wait for it... Haliburton! And ObamaCare is a corporate giveaway if there ever was one: http://reason.com/blog/2010/03.....s-who-hear

Democrats: USEFUL IDIOTS FOR THE Eeeee-VIL CORPORATIONS!!!

[DJF]

John Kerry attacked George Bush in the 2004 election over the same thing. Democrats are so in love with welfare that they don't want to stop European defense welfare

[Bill C]

That's the thing. I expect that stuff from a beltway hack politician like John Kerry. But coming from a "progressive" website that is supposed to be grassroots is effing pathetic.

[Mike]

I like the fact that "end police abuse" is "briefly tempting." Yes, down that road lies anarchy.

[Cyto]

Brilliant!

[P Brooks]

Is the whole thing a Hanna-Barbera joke?

You may be on to something....

[John]

I was thinking more Family Circus.

[Mike]

This makes a good companion piece.

[The Art-P.O.G.]

Heh heh...spot on. I also love SugarFree's bingo board.

[Citizen Nothing]

Bagge (and Deutsch, in the opposite way) proves you need to know something about your subject in order to be funny about it.

[Citizen Nothing]

You can't embrace authority and be funny at the same time. Just doesn't work.

[Axman]

Well, it works for fellow authority-embracers. One function of humor is to reinforce shared values.

[prolefeed]

Generations of liberal standup comics would beg to differ.

[Citizen Nothing]

I think your definition of liberal and mine might differ, prole.

[Brett L]

In all seriousness, they left out Bill Hicks' "people-who-hate-people"-tarians.

[Misanthropic Misanthrope]

We can never get a meeting started, so we're not much of a threat. Your point still stands.

[John]

It is really disgusting and unfunny. The "libertarians are pedophile" one alone makes it offensive and not in a good way. Everyone should have a sense of humor about themselves. But the sense of humor should be about things that are actually funny. Reason should have just ignored this flaming piece of crab thrown on their front door step.

[Citizen Nothing]

Crab flambe'?
Mmmmmm.
But you're right about the unfunny part. I love laughing at myself (and everyone else). Funny will excuse a lot of sins, but this ain't funny.

[ClubMedSux]

Pilaf Crab Flambe

Ingredients

* 6 strips bacon
* 2 medium onions, chopped
* 1 clove garlic, minced
* 1/2 pound ham, julienne
* 1/2 c. tomato paste
* 1 lb crab meat
* 1/2 c. Cognac
* 1 Tbsp. chopped parsley
* 1 pint dry white wine
* 1/4 c. heavy cream

How to make it

* Fry the bacon until crisp, then brown the garlic and onion in the fat.
* Add ham and tomato paste to the skillet and stir in the crab meat.
* Pour in the Cognac and flame.
* When the flames have died down, put in the parsley and wine and simmer for 15 minutes.
* Stir in the heavy cream and serve at once over saffron rice, or on toast, or plain.

[trixie]

true, john, pedophiles aren't funny. except in the venture brothers.

[ClubMedSux]

And the Big Lebowski. Eight-year-olds, Dude...

[Van]

Don't fuck with the Jesus!

[Citizen Nothing]

Which reminds me. Deutsch forgot "...And pull the fucking trigger until it goes "CLICK""-atarians.

[Axman]

John, I hate to tell you this, but somebody needs to. Earnestness is an extremely unattractive trait.

[John]

Yeah, but caring about what others find to be attractive and unattractive traits is worse.

[jj]

+1

[Slut Bunwalla]

John, that may be your best comeback line ever.

[Warren]

BRIEFLY TEMPTING is what poker players call a 'tell'. He's saying, libertarian principals aren't inherently wacky and can produce sensible policy, but then I remember: rich people, multi-national corporations, and hate-speech.

[Darkeyes]

I'm surprised that Barry Deutsch has the guts to still publicize his cartoons after that high-profile conviction for repeatedly sodomizing his infant daughter...

[JT]

He forgot pot smoking redneck metalhead

[sage]

AKA the "Warty"

🙂

[Warty]

I hardly ever smoke dope anymore. Substitute 'musclebound' for 'pot-smoking', and you have me.

[CrackertyAssCracker]

I don't smoke pot anymore. I'm nowhere near cool enough to know where to buy any.

[prolefeed]

California, dude.

[Lisa Kudrow]

LOL, Akbar is Da Bomb dude.

Lou
http://www.anon-surfing.at.tc

[x,y]

How did they miss "The Obama-Voting Libertarian"? Maybe it was too hard fitting all these people into a single frame:

Peter Bagge
Ronald Bailey
Bruce Bartlett
David Brin
Tim Cavanaugh
Steve Chapman
Craig Newmark
Steven Pinker
Ryan Sager
Julian Sanchez
John Scalzi
Doug Stanhope
David Weigel

Cue Matt Welch and "it's just a meme!" in 3, 2, ...

[John]

I wonder how long before Reason purges that article from their cache? It has to be the most embarrassing thing ever published in Reason. And they are really sensitive about it.

[trixie]

they don't link to it much or at all (preferring to show the 2004 version) but I doubt they will remove it entirely or ever.

If they do, that would make this douchewad of a site no better than the things they criticize.

[sage]

So you're saying this site is better than the things they criticize? YES!

[Citizen Nothing]

I'm betting they never purge it. Which is one thing that sets Reason apart from most other outlets.
How many times did you vote for George W, John? That seems just as heinous to me.
(I am sad to see Stanhope on that list. I'm still pumping for him to top the LP ticket in 2012.)

[John]

I don't think they will either. And you are right most sites would. And I will defend voting for Bush and thus against Al Gore and John Kerry all day long. And as we have found out under Obama, it is not like the things Libertarians most bitch about (the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq, the Patriot Act or the Drug war) would have changed one bit had either one of those guys been elected. Al Gore was a bigger Iraq hawk prior to 9-11 than GWB ever was. They only reason he ever objected to the war was because it scored political points.

[robc]

Were Browne and Badnarik not on your ballot?

[Tulpa]

Badnarik? The guy who wanted to strap prisoners into hospital beds 23/24 hours of the day and blow up the UN?

[Darkeyes]

Stanhope said he wouldn't do it because the reporting requirements (income, etc.) were too intrusive and burdensome.

Chalk another one up to democracy-enhancing incumbent protection campaign regulation.

[Citizen Nothing]

Yeah. I know. But a feller can dream, can't he? Just imagine a Stanhope campaign. That would shake things fuckin' up.

[The Angry Optimist]

Only a select few of you think it has any traction. The rest of us either do not care or remember the sentiment that drove people to voting as such.

[John]

You should care. The election of Obama was a real window into this country's neurosis. They voted for him for all of the most shallow reasons. It is worth contemplating how exactly someone like Obama managed to get elected. And the people who voted for him owe themselves a lot of introspection.

[Sudden]

I can certainly agree with the neurosis diagnosis where it pertains to vast swaths of the country, but I'd say that a big part of the libertarian support was premised on a genuine belief that this guy would decriminalize drugs, end war, and preserve civil liberties all while not doing significantly more economic intervention than the pub alternative.... of course they were wrong and the writing shouldve been on the wall at the time, but I don't believe they were drive by the same feel-good, articulate-black-man, neurosis that much of the country was.

[prolefeed]

I don't believe they were drive by the same feel-good, articulate-black-man, neurosis that much of the country was

I seem to recall Nick Gillespie talking along those lines before the election.

[x,y]

My guts tells me they were driven by precisely those things, but they had a nice little fig leaf too.

Anyone who believed Obama would end the drug war, get troops out of the Middle East, restore civil liberties, and not do substantially more economic harm than his predecessors is a fucking idiot. The most any thinking person could have hoped for was marijuana decriminalization, combat troops out of Iraq, and closing Gitmo, which at the margins would have been pretty good. You had to believe the Dems were going to go nuts with the budget, though, because they controlled the House and the Senate too.

And since there's no such thing as a libertarian who cares substantially more about civil liberties than economic liberties, there was no libertarian justification for voting for Obama.

[Jordan]

+infinity

[x,y]

What sentiment might that be? That Republicans were terrible when they were in control? The "few" (you) of us who think this "meme" (Welch) has traction agree. But it doesn't justify a vote for Obama, especially considering the Dems controlled Congress.

I'm not posting it just because of their votes. Their reasons are even worse.

[Lamar]

Why is it embarrassing? Don't you think its a bit hokey to think that the world would be rainbows and apple pie if only John McCain were president?

[John]

It is embarrassing because they thought he would be anything but a disaster. It is embarrassing because he was so clearly and obviously opposite of the things they profess to believe. They didn't have to vote for McCain. They could have not voted or voted for Barr. Why on earth would self professed "libertarians" refuse to at least make a protest vote? That is embarrassing.

[Tony]

As you are a Republican, or at the very least a "denial-ican" why should they care about your opinion?

You really think President Palin would have been a better choice? Wait, you're John, of course you do.

[John]

Tony you would do a lot better in the conversation if you at least bothered to learn who the candidates were.

[Tony]

3 months on the job would have killed McCain, and besides, it was HIS judgment that selected that dingbat to be first in line of succession.

[John]

Tony we only debate reality here not your snuff film fantasies.

[John]

And for the record I was terrified at the thought that a President Palin would have run up a trillion and a half dollar deficit, conducted unlimited drone warfare in Pakistan, not closed GUITMO, passed a healthcare reform that resulted in millions losing their health insurance, allowed an oil spill in the gulf to run out of control for months, alienated our allies in Europe, and presided over an economy that lost 2.8 million jobs in one year. Thank God she isn't President and none of that happened.

[Tony]

Palin wouldn't have passed healthcare reform, and who exactly has lost their health insurance? And blaming Obama for the recession is just dishonest partisan bullshit and you know it. All that other stuff you really don't give a crap about, at least you wouldn't if it was a Republican doing it.

[Drax the Destroyer]

I don't like defending the guy, but under McCain this horseshit "healthcare" boondoggle rammed up our asses probably would not have made it past Nancy Pelosi's intestines. However, we'd probably be sending more soldiers to get blown up in another godforsaken desert for no some fabricated ill-aimed poorly supported reason. Time for my catch-phrase (Trademark Pending): "We're FUCKED!". T-shirts will be available near exit 45 of 495 from 5 pm to 6 pm, Monday, Weds, every other week of every even month.

[Ska]

You're near Riverhead?

[Drax the Destroyer]

Nah, just picked a random exit along the DC beltway. I need to protect myself from you murdering bastards somehow.

[John]

I don't think the wars would be any different. I can't think of what McCain would have done differently other than maybe doing a few more people in the Afghanistan surge. Obama is very much a Bush third term in that regard.

And McCain wouldn't have done the stimulus or if he would have it would have been much smaller.

Regardless, lets say for the sake of argument McCain would have been worse. Then the choices were bad, worse or protest. Since the election was not in doubt, how can you possibly justify voting for Obama and thus contributing to him having a bigger mandate?

[Citizen Nothing]

Here's one good thing: Obama is sullying the "brand" of progressivism nearly as much as George W. sullied the "free-market" brand. (Although I believe that Obama is a true believer, while W. never was.)
Had McCain been elected, we'd be hearing how all our problems are due his deregulation and budget-cutting, while no such thing was occurring.

[John]

That is true. And I think there is an argument to be made that Obama is the real life incarnation of the "let the Left have what it wants and discredit itself so we can finally get a chance to have some real free market policies" plan. A lot of people had claimed over the years that the only way to end big government was to finally let the Left get everything it wants so that people would finally rise up against big government. And that may be what is happening now.

But that wasn't the reason any of the people on the list voted for Obama.

[Slut Bunwalla]

The problem is that all of this crap is still being blamed on Bush and "free-market conservatism", not Obama's policies. And a lot of people still believe that.

[prolefeed]

If McCain had been elected, liberals would have been able to try to blame whatever messes occurred on him.

Instead, they pretty much own everything that is going on, despite STILL trying to blame it on Bush.

[Drax the Destroyer]

John, in defense of my "idealistic" voting record, a Republican did not have a shot at taking the state I was in during 2000, 2004, and 2008. You can blame the electoral college for making a Republican vote in the people's republic of Maryland worthless.

I can't justify voting for Obama, because I never did and never will(unless the Ghost of Barry Goldwater takes over his body). Moreover, I'm not saying McCain would have been worse, just different. It's very hard for me to weigh the merits of green shit vs. brown shit. Time to milk the phrase "We're FUCKED!"

[The Ghost of Barry Goldwater]

FUCK YOU!

[TallDave]

Stop whining and get in there Barry, your country needs you.

[The Ghost of Barry Goldwater]

I love my country but I loathe the idea of having to fuck that Klingon looking bitch even more. If you can figure out a way I can send her and her stuck up snotty spawn packing and politically get away with it, I'm all ears.

[Lamar]

John, I just don't think you can compare actuals to whatifs. I think McCain would have had a stress heart attack and Sarah Palin would have nuked Iran with drone strikes. But you seem to be saying that a protest vote was in order. The problem is that I thought Bob Barr was full of horse shit just as much as Obama and McCain, plus Barr's running mate was even more embarrassing than McCain's.

[John]

We will never know what kind of President McCain would have been. So the people who voted for him really can't answer for doing it because they have no record to answer for.

What makes their support of Obama so embarrassing is not that he is a bad President. You never know what kind of President someone is going to be until they actually get in there. So anyone can be guilty of voting for a bad President. What is embarrassing is that Obama was so obviously left and so obviously stood against everything that they professed to believe in but they still voted for him anyway. It is one thing to vote for the guy you think most closely reflects your views and then have him turn out to be a liar. It is quite another thing to not listen or pay attention to what a candidate is saying and then vote for him because "you have always wanted to vote for a black President" as I think Cavenaugh said or some other facile reason. That is cringe worthy.

[Lamar]

How does Ronald Bailey's reasoning square with your argument, i.e., that a vote for Obama was the protest vote (punish the GOP, punish them hard). Do you believe there is any merit to the idea that Obama's current tenure (and the Tea Party as a result) will have a positive impact on the future of the GOP?

[John]

Good point about Bailey. He seems to be the one person who makes a rational case for doing it. But, he could have punished the GOP by voting for Bar or staying home and still not had the blood of Obama on his hands.

[Citizen Nothing]

In the case of the LP, I am almost always voting for the party and not the man. There was no chance Barr would be elected. But a vote for the LP, whoever is at the top of the ticket, is a message. (And it also can help with ballot access, etc.)

[TallDave]

My favorite irony-challenged argument for Obama is "we were worried McCain would die and someone with no qualifications would become President, so we voted for Obama."

[SIV]

Although not a contributor you could add Mrs.Suderman

[Mike Laursen]

You can include me, too. Although, I'm sure you don't care that (a) I knew my vote wasn't very unlikely to make any difference in the State of California, and (b) I was just trying to vote against McCain. Of course, many of the people you list had the same reasoning, but you don't care about that, either.

[x,y]

Actually, Mike, I do care about their reasons, and they were all terrible. See my post above.

There was no libertarian justification for voting for Obama. And for the record, even though it doesn't matter, there was no libertarian justification for voting for McCain. The best you can come up with for the latter is divided government.

You guys really are testy, aren't you? Well, that and apparently misguided.

[Mike Laursen]

Actually, if I had to do it over I would have just abstained from voting. But, agonizing too much over who somebody voted for is if one understands the microscopic amount of political power that is exercised by voting.

[x,y]

I should note that there were other ways of voting "against" McCain/the Republican Party. For the LP, for another party, or not voting at all. You would have us believe your choice was the only alternative. Not so. But you don't care about logic, do you?

[Mike Laursen]

I make a point of NOT voting for the Libertarian candidate when that candidate is a poor choice, which is usually the case. And I do so in hopes of sending a message to the Libertarian Party leadership.

[anomdebus]

Yeah, 'cause if they got to 0.5%, it would have been Bob Barr forever.. I'm sure the LP noticed the downtick for LP and corresponding uptick for Obama in CA and absolutely got the message!

This makes sense if the LP did anything consistently. I don't expect them to do anything consistently until there is a reason for them to do so.
Personally, I think it would be good for the LP if people just felt more comfortable voting for a 3rd party, any 3rd party.

[Mike Laursen]

Yup, admittedly, a vote here or there sends a pretty weak message.

[Colin]

It was pretty funny, but most of it could be applied to followers of just about any political philosophy.

[Dan T.]

I'll actually agree with you guys that Barry Deutsch doesn't seem to know much about libertarians...I mean, he included a woman and a black guy in there!

[SugarFree]

Don't be his porn. He just wants to jizz all over your face.

[Citizen Nothing]

Sorry, SF, but that's pretty funny.

[SugarFree]

It's ironic considering the Art-P.O.G. and Astrid are on this very thread, but not really funny. See my discourse on information decay in trolling in Morning Links.

[Citizen Nothing]

Face it, it's funny. I'd have made the same joke myself if I'd have thought of it.

[SugarFree]

OK. I admit it's funny. Like seeing a kindly grandmother slip in dog shit and break her hip level funny.

[Citizen Nothing]

Did you post that on Youtube yet?

[SugarFree]

Fuckers banned me. "Objectionable content" "Site advertisers pulling out" "Everything you post makes us vomit" Blah, blah, blah.

[Dan T.]

Thank you for being my porn.

[Sudden]

Even funnier considering we'd pick up the tab on fixing the kindly granmother's hip.

[sage]

That reminds me of one they could include: The "Trollitarian"

Picture a thirty-something fatass in his mom's basement at a computer. The thought balloon would say something like this:

"I'll never admit to being a libertarian, but somehow the ideas attract me to it again and again and again...."

"These guys are irrelevant...I wonder what they're talking about today?"

[heller]

Dan T ignores the multiple female and black commenters on this site alone.

[Yonemoto]

Hey some of us are NOTA

[John]

"First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win."--Gandhi

I've been hearing more and more jokes about libertarians in the mainstream media. This makes me happy because of the quote above. We've clearly made it to phase 2.

[Dan T.]

Sarah Palin beat you to that phase.

[John]

Runs Batted In
Single Season Leaders

'Top 100'
Name RBI Year Team League Rank
Hack Wilson 191 1930 Chicago Cubs NL 1
Lou Gehrig 184 1931 New York Yankees AL 2
Hank Greenberg 183 1937 Detroit Tigers AL 3
Jimmie Foxx 175 1938 Boston Red Sox AL 4
Lou Gehrig 175 1927 New York Yankees AL
Lou Gehrig 174 1930 New York Yankees AL 6
Babe Ruth 171 1921 New York Yankees AL 7
Hank Greenberg 170 1935 Detroit Tigers AL 8

Hank Greenberg, greatest Jewish ball player ever.

[Darkeyes]

Sandy Koufax throws a 100 mph fastball at your face.

[John]

I thought of Koulfax as soon as I hit send. But hey if debating the merits of Koulfax versus Greenberg prevents people from paying attention to Dan T, my work is done.

[Timon19]

Totally off-topic, but you're like clockwork, John. Mention a name (even a very famous one!) and you immediately butcher it multiple times in the next post despite being given the exact correct spelling in the original post. You only have to replicate the keystrokes. It's not hard.

[John]

I don't know what to tell you other than fuck off. Is that spelling good enough for you?

[Timon19]

It's just remarkably consistent. How is it that a person can't simply transcribe what's in front of them for the space of one word? It's like a force of nature or something.

[John]

For some reason when I looked at Koufax the f appeared to have an l in front of it. Everyone has a blind spot. Some people cannot do long division. Some can't catch a ball out of the air. I cannot type letter perfect and must always proofread. Just one of those things.

[Timon19]

And yet, so often you fail to proofread. Like almost all the time.

[John]

I never proof read on here. It is a comment board. I don't consider it important enough.

[The Art-P.O.G.]

It is kind of funny. John is one of the most lucid and, quite frankly, sharp posters on here and easily one of the worst spellers. It's all love, John.

[Citizen Nothing]

John. You should totally start spelling it "Fuk off." That would be funny.

[The Art-P.O.G.]

Actually, the funny thing is that for some reason half of John's typos and misspellings are solid conformities to RC'z Law.

[John]

I am just RC's porn.

[swillfredo pareto]

Sarah Palin beat you to that phase.

And Gandhi stole it from a 1914 Amalgamated Clothing Workers of America convention. I am not sure most people will ever get past laughing at Palin.

[Sudden]

She was too hilarious to ignore, so she never conformed to the list. She has been a punchline since people were aware of her.

[29InNet]

I have to agree John. The liberal cartoonist in our local paper, who to my knowledge has never acknowledged libertarians, has just recently published a cartoon showing a "libertarian" lifeguard with a bunch of dead bodies floating about.

At first I was pissed, then realized the left may be getting a bit worried these days.

[The Art-P.O.G.]

Weren't you still pissed that the cartoon doesn't make any sense?

[Citizen Nothing]

Baby steps, TAPOG.

[29InNet]

Most of Clay Bennett's cartoons are intellectual garbage based on a typical progressive viewpoint and thought process; so taking this into account, it did make sense.

Labeling libertarians as murders due to lack of caring did piss me off but conversely just the fact he was attacking libertarianism rather than just the GOP to me is progress.

Like some of the superstars in sports say, being booed is better than hearing nothing. They are getting scared and are moving into an attack mode.

[Mike Laursen]

It's telling that he includes "Briefly Tempting". And that he really doesn't really make any slam against "Briefly Tempting" or "Left-Wing".

[Abdul]

I liked his comics better when it would show how little Billy would wander all over the nieghborhood before going home.

[Citizen Nothing]

Damn straight! And where are the "Not Me!"--atarians?

[Van]

Defining your identity for you is a common liberal propaganda technique.

[Ray]

The Left thinks "Whitey" is the only libertarian that exists.

[Warty]

They forgot Neo-Confederate.

[Vernunft]

I've never seen a better cartoon representation of the straw man fallacy. Bravo!

[heller]

We should get this guy for Friday Funnies...

[Dan T.]

Anyway, it's not so much that there are 24 different types of libertarians as much as most libertarians will exhibit one or more of these 24 traits depending on the discussion.

[SugarFree]

Don't be his porn.

[Citizen Nothing]

Whew. He's back to not funny.

[Warty]

He never was funny. You just huffed too much glue.

[trixie]

you're right! these 24-faced fucks don't have any consistent qualities except their shrill whining tone. don't let them abuse you dan t!

[P Brooks]

They voted for him for all of the most shallow reasons.

George W Bush.

That's why people voted for Obama.

[John]

There is more to it than that. If it was just about Bush, Obama wouldn't have had a cult following like he did. If it was just about Bush, no one would have had the insane "lower the seas" expectations of him they had. They would have just said "don't fuck it up". But that is not what happened.

[Dan T.]

It's not that hard to figure out. America was tried of having a clown for a President and wanted a leader instead.

[TallDave]

Ya, Obama was the Magic Negro who would expiate our sins and heal the planet.

Otherwise, we'd have elected Kerry.

[John]

Had there been no 9-11, I think we might have had a President Kerry. The only reason Bush's base didn't revolt against him in 04 was because he convinced them that Kerry wanted to lose the war.

[TallDave]

A lot of people wanted to lose the war. Kerry practically campaigned on the idea.

Losing a war isn't all that unpopular. People forget McClellan could easily have beaten Lincoln if the timing of events had been just a little different.

[Van]

To understand how a black "moderate" could win a Presidential election read, "The Rise of Southern Republicans", by Earl Black and Merle Black.

They do a beautiful job of laying out the demographics of voting patterns.

[Dan T.]

Here's a few more I thought of:

- "The Denier": any problem the government tries to address the Denier simply is not a problem.

- "The Trivalizer": any time the government tries to address a problem the Trivalizer will refer to the "nanny state" or drop a sardonic "do it for the children".

- The Waffler: can't decide if government is an all-powerful force for evil or a band of keystone cops who can't tell shit from shinola

[Timon19]

At the risk of fluffing Dan...

Being very powerful and being incompetent are not mutually exclusive. In fact, it's the most dangerous of combinations.

The argument you were looking for is: can't decide if the government is a cadre of evildoing super-geniuses or a band of keystone cops etc. etc.

[Dan T.]

Yes, that's probably a better way of putting it.

[Timon19]

Unfortunately for you, that applies to a strange combination of lefties and Alex Jones types more so than libertarians, who may be a lot of things, but pretty consistently regard government as a clutch of untrained chimps.

[Dan T.]

Sometimes you do, and other times you see every government action as part of an elaborate scheme to put the entire population under complete control.

[Citizen Nothing]

The world is back in balance.

[Barry Deutsch]

Ooooh. Man, I actually wish I had included these. These are good.

[TallDave]

I love how tax cuts aren't "frugal." Only a lefty could think that not taking other people's money is somehow spendthrift.

And how many libertarians are pro-life?

Most of the rest are anarchist, not libertarian, except for one claiming property rights aren't racist.

I did like Gunner Joe, though.

[John]

Gunner Joe was the only funny one. And a few libertarians are pro life. But they are also anti-drug war. You could just as easily do the liberal version of that one by having someone say "get your hands off my body, except if it is telling me what I can eat, drink or which doctor I can see".

And tax cuts are not frugal in liberals' eyes because spending is divine will and can thus never be cut. So any cut in taxes is automatically an increase in the debt.

[GoNavy]

1. Define "pro life"

2. Define "anti-drug war"

Not that am arguing with your position or anything, except I think both of these terms, especially #1, mean different things to different people.

I for one am "pro-choice", but I bet the definition of "pro-choice" will piss off many a feminist. I believe that a man should have a choice on whether his baby will be born or not.

[John]

I define pro life to mean the belief that life begins at conception and therefore is entitled to legal protection. If you think life begins at conception, there is nothing un libertarian about objecting to abortion.

Anti drug war to me means thinking drugs should be legal.

My point was, although not properly elaborated, that you can have a consistent position that people should have freedom to do what they like with their bodies and also be pro life, if you believe that life begins at conception.

Liberals in contrast almost never have such a consistent position. It is hands off my body when it comes to abortion, but government control of everything else is just dandy.

[SIV]

And how many libertarians are pro-life?

'bout half?

[SugarFree]

At least 50%. And rising since we are still getting Republican refugees. And likely to get higher once the GOP takes over the Congress and promptly fucks up.

[TallDave]

Really? That surprises me. I would say more like 10-20% are truly opposed to abortion in all cases.

I mean, unless you consider opposing even partial birth abortion "pro-life." Then maybe half.

[SugarFree]

Well, I am sort of basing my assumption on Reason. I only know a few other libertarians IRL. They all come at it from a liberal background (or at least upbringing.)

A lot of people in the commentariat seem to ignore abortion threads, so it is hard to judge. But they are almost always one or two people against a ton of pro-lifers.

I admit it could be just a tall poppy problem.

[Citizen Nothing]

Not to start one of those sorry-ass abortion threads, but this concerns me.
I just can't believe the idea that personhood begins at conception.
(And I believe all kinds of crazy shit. I'm one of the few free-range Christians in these parts. I believe in a big chief sky god and the Immaculate Conception. How fucking unlikely is that? -- Just jokin' w/u, Big Guy! Tell your Shorty I said "howdy." )
People think I'm being facetious when I say that humans don't really seem to become people until after the fourth trimester or so. But I'm at least partially serious. (And I have four children, who have taught me well of what I speak.) I'd split the difference to be safe, and allow abortion before the third trimester.

[John]

But you can have a baby in the second trimester and it can live outside the womb. And children have things like brains and react to stimulus pretty early on. I agree with you that a fertilized egg is probably not a "person". But I think it becomes one before the third trimester.

[Citizen Nothing]

I don't want to thread-jack, John. I promise to have this discussion on another thread with you some time. (I usually steer clear of abortion threads, but the seeming ascendance of the "pro-life libertarian" does worry me a bit. So maybe next time I'll bite.)

[TallDave]

See, CN, that's exactly my position. And I always thought most libertarians felt that way.

It's rational to balance the evolving personhood of the fetus against the rights of the mother. At conception, life has begun, but not personhood.

[John]

The problem is "personhood" is a real slippery slope. Once being a human is dependent on a set of abilities or functions, then it becomes very easy to define the sick or the handicapped as something other than human. And that never leads anywhere good.

Sorry to continue the threadjack.

[TallDave]

We do that anyway. Just try to get a driver's license with Down's syndrome.

Well, judging from drivers where I live, that one's pretty easy to waive. But you get the idea.

If I cut off my finger, it isn't human without me. That's true even if the technology exists to grow a new body from the finger.

[John]

"We do that anyway. Just try to get a driver's license with Down's syndrome."

Saying someone cannot get a drivers' license is not the same as saying they are not fully human and thus can be killed for convenience the way an animal can.

And the finger analogy doesn't work. If left alone, your finger will never detach itself from you and become another person. Whatever you think a fetus is, it is certainly something different than an appendage.

[GoNavy]

It's rational to balance the evolving personhood of the fetus against the rights of the mother and father.

[John]

But if a fetus is not a life, it is a part of the woman's body. I don't see how you can justify violating someone's personal autonomy by forcing them to have a medical procedure.

[junior]

what happened here?

[SugarFree]

CN and TD, that's pretty much where I come down as well. I like to say up to "non-interventionist viability."

If you are talking about libertarians or an-caps (anyone who accepts the right of self-ownership for themselves and others) it seems to fall into either denying the rights of someone or striking a balance. There are more people here that seem to lean toward life-at-conception than abortion-up-to-crowning.

Of course, attitudes-on-abortion-as-a-cultural-signifier is more prevalent than those who actually look at it from a rights perspective.

[TallDave]

Oooh good phrase.

[Sudden]

Forgive my continuation of the threadjack, but I feel compelled to state that the hands off my body argument fails to consider the completely uniquely human DNA apparent in the fetus, and considering DNA is the ultimate differentiator between humans, it would seem to indicate to me at least that that would be a reliable indicator of unique human life. A completely non-theological, non-spiritual, scientific basis for determining life. I for one have never found self-awareness, cognition, or any othe argument compelling as to whyu something would not be life because, as John stated, it could be justify so much murder out of fully born humans. And now I digress.

[Pappy Smear]

You're not at personhood until you can vote.

[prolefeed]

And how many libertarians are pro-life?

'bout half?

I doubt half of libertarians believe that, at conception, a fertilized egg is a human being and deserving of protection.

If you throw in modestly pro-choice people like me who think that sometime by the end of the first trimester a fetus is a human being that deserves not to be killed, then maybe half.

[Lamar]

I suppose it depends on how hard core you are. If you believe that life is sacred starting from conception, then you would be against all abortions, even in cases of rape. If you are less hard care, and you believe that "fault" is a part of the equation, then the percentage goes down, and so on and so forth.

[Fatty Bolger]

So from this cartoon, we can infer that liberals think:

Government coercion is how we all get along!

Sticking to principles is naive and nothing to be admired. Lie instead. Works for us!

Knowing actual facts about an issue and throwing them in my face makes you an arrogant prick.

You can't be against big corporations AND big government (because it's not like they ever work hand in hand, right?)

Fearing the power of big government is just paranoid! I mean, look at history! What could go wrong?

Paying taxes is "giving to others" (as opposed to charity, which is just a tax dodge.)

Using basic public resources (you helped pay for) puts you on the hook for all the other crap government does.

Keeping money you earned is *exactly* the same as stealing from the poor, and trashing the environment.

Markets don't work - unless there is somebody to tell everybody what to do.

History and original intent is irrelevant when discussing the Constitution. It's how you FEEL that's important, see?

The very idea of shooting a gun makes me pee in my pants.

Libertarian ideas do sound pretty good, but... how will we know what to do if Nanny doesn't tell us?

Big government is the only thing standing between you and an early death by foodborne botulism, which causes an average of 22 cases a year and has a mere 90-95% survival rate.

Sure I use drugs, but I don't want to make them LEGAL. That would be anarchy.

[TallDave]

+1

[John]

That is great.

[GoNavy]

Most Excellent post fatty!

[Sudden]

Full of win.

[Eric]

Bravo!

[roy]

+1
Now make the cartoon

[-]

The number of comments proves one thing at least: libertarians are narcissists. Was that one covered in the strip?

[TallDave]

Was that about me?

[Carly]

I bet you think this thread is about you, Don't you? don't you?
(I had some dreams. They were clouds in my coffee.)

[Hank Buster]

Yep, this thread is about you, and all those crazy dreamers out there who think their crackpot opinions amount to a hill of beans in this...I'm sorry...where was I?

[Warty]

I just noticed that the cartoonist resorted to mentioning public roads. I would have been mildly impressed if he hadn't, but oh well.

[capitol l]

Warty don't you know that if you have ever been on a public road, at any point in your life, then not agreeing with all government spending and overreach makes you a big fat hypocrite.

neener neener neener!

[Yonemoto]

I just understood this cartoon. Really, if you think about it, basically it's a subconscious anxiety that there is no underlying philosophical basis to being a Liberal, and each cel is an attempt to warn as to why a liberal shouldn't "cross over onto the dark side"... Because (gasp) you might have to question those things that you believe in in favor of a slightly more consistent ideology.

[Van]

He did a little self searching and found there was Nothing there.

[Suki]

Thanks Jesse! I picked this out for the new wallpaper in the Libertopia Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms, aka, the rec center 🙂

[Franklin Harris]

Who the hell is Barry Deutsch?

[Pappy Smear]

The correct spelling is Berry Douche.

[The Art-P.O.G.]

Gread title to this blog post, BTW.

[Barry Deutsch]

Ditto! The title is awesome. And you're the first person I've seen make that comparison, even though I totally had "Life in Hell" in mind.

[The Art-P.O.G.]

Hmmm. "Gread" should read "Great".

[rustedangel]

http://www.leftycartoons.com/w.....blame2.png

Same cartoonist, a little better. It shows that liberals can understand the idea of evil corporations colluding with government. Even though I agree with the message, this guy's artwork is pretty much awful. Penny arcade had it right about political cartoons - they've got to be one of the most talentless forms of expression in existance.

[Van]

They used to be used as propaganda, but now ....., well gee.

[CrackertyAssCracker]

hmmm ..... Why is Reason spreading anti-libertarian propaganda? If it was funny I could understand. But it isn't.

[Hank Buster]

It's funny when applied to Scandinavian Country & Western music.

[Fluffy]

It's funny because we're laughing AT it.

Like if Hillary was to try to do feminist stand-up.

[Carly]

One word, dude. Kochtopus.

[Hank Buster]

We in the Northern Regions happen to believe that Hillary is hot. Maybe we don't get out enough. But it's fucking cold here. Happiness is a warm Hillary.

[CrackertyAssCracker]

Oh. That actually makes sense man. Thanks. Sorry I'm such a humorless prick sometimes. I tend more toward the Beavis and Butthead level of humor usually.

[Hank Buster]

You are forgiven. Pass the lutefisk. And speaking of lutefisk, did I mention that Hillary is soaked in an unchanged solution of cold water and lye for two days, after which she swells during this soaking, producing a jelly-like consistency?

[Mongo]

Good Christ, man, please stop. I have well-honed visualization abilities.

[kwais]

I thought a couple of them were funny. Sad that the author can't use half that amount of observation skills to see his own shortcomings.

These ones could probably describe me:
The Gunner Joe
The Arrogant
Briefly tempting.

And maybe the consistent one too.

[BakedPenguin]

What Warren and Fatty said.

[Lamar]

Why isn't one of the 24 types of libertarian "successful creator of supermarket adored by left wingers"?

[Tonio]

Good one, Lamar.

[Lamar]

I guess they filed John Mackey under "Briefly Tempting".

[Citizen Nothing]

Fuck. Sorry.
I only wish I were Carly.

[Citizen Nothing]

And fuck threaded comments.
You know what? Fuck everything. That should cover it.

[Hank Buster]

Threaded comments require that you pay attention and cut back on your Pabst Blue Ribbon intake. I know it's a sacrifice, but you can do it.

[Barry Deutsch]

Jesse, there actually was a "gold bug" in the original script! After I showed it to a few friends, there were too many people who had never even heard of the gold bugs, so I replaced that dude with the historian.

Thanks for posting the strip! I know this isn't exactly my target audience here on "Reason," so it's especially cool of you to post it.

[Citizen Nothing]

Ok. So at least give the dude props for being a good sport.

[Chinny Chin Chin]

So the ignorance of your peer group forced you to dumb down your cartoon?

[Lamar]

Doesn't every entertainer play to the crowd?

[Mike Laursen]

Please stick around. It's been a couple of years since we've had a liberal with any intelligence to debate with. Nothing but sad, sad attempts at trolling.

[barfman]

*barf*

[Citizen Nothing]

One of us...one of us...one of us...

[Jake Boone]

Jesse, you misspelled "DONDEROOOOOO!!!"

[alan]

trixie|7.1.10 @ 9:29AM|#

Okay. I get it, you like patriarchal convention of beginning sentences with capital letters. I choose different for stylistic reasons, but you have a problem with that.

But seriously, or at least close. Barry Deutsch cartoons make me feel a little sick every time I see one. I always understand it and why he thinks the way he does. But the guy must be so acidic and joyless to draw such things.

Come again, he is exactly like the folks here at reason, hah!

Sadly, the last girl who would let me do things to her butt was named Trixie 🙁

[James Anderson Merritt]

The fact that people are bothering to use ridicule in this way indicates that something about libertarianism seriously threatens them; at least they think so, anyway. We're now beyond the first step: "First they ignore you." Next step, according to Gandhi, is "Then they fight you." Let's be ready for that fight. Because the next step is, "Then you win."

How odd, that the knives of humor are a real indication that we are being taken seriously. Then again, the world is a strange place.

[Mandolin]

I do tend to find it interesting when people use the "you mocked me; I must be right!" argument.

Particularly since the corollaries seem to be "You argued seriously with me! I must be right, or you wouldn't bother to deny it!" and "You used a bad word; this proves your argument is thin and I must be right!" and "You said nothing at all! I must be right, and you all can say nothing to contradict me!"

I mean, spinning any reaction into an indication of automatic victory is not a specifically libertarian behavior. It's certainly not even a behavior that's limited to political debate. But it is, you know, kinda funny.

[James Anderson Merritt]

I didn't say anyone was "right." I said the use of ridicule was an indication that the opponent knew stronger tactics than mere dismissal (ignoring the enemy) were necessary. Then I quoted Gandhi. Either he was right or wrong about the progression of things, or he was wrong. If he was right, Libertarians had better be ready to fight, because that is what's next.

[George]

Does anyone even read this guy's blog? Most of his posts have under 15 comments; the Libertarian one only has 17. And I couldn't get through much of his blog to begin with; his most recent post is him having an orgasm over Al Gore. I wanted to gag.

[Barry Deutsch]

George, the Al Gore post wasn't by me, it was by my co-blogger Jeff. And here's a bit of what Jeff wrote: "But having read the complaint, I have to say that my gut tells me that it's more likely Gore is guilty of sexual assault than not guilty. [...] And if his actions lead to civil or criminal penalties against him, he has nobody to blame but himself."

As for being a relatively small blog (compared to Reason), guilty as charged. Some of our posts get one or two hundred comments, some get no comments at all. I don't think a blog needs to be huge to be valid, however.

[The Art-P.O.G.]

+multiple good sport points for Barry Deutsch.

[CrackertyAssCracker]

So, lets make Types of liberal doosh bags. First two:

1) the Garry Trudeau wanna be. Man is he cool, in his own mind.

2) the guy who knows Obama sucks but takes it out on libertarians instead.

[Mandolin]

When this happens, I want one to be something like "The Hitler Whirlwind," the liberal who designates everything the new Hitler. "Bush is the new Hitler! Factory farmers are the new Hitlers! My gym teacher is the new Hitler!"

[Barry Deutsch]

Oh, please! If anything, I'm a Tom Tomorrow wanna-be.

[CrackertyAssCracker]

So you are saying my Strawman has some slight accuracy problems?

Really? Cry me a fucking river. I'm actually astounded at your liberal dooshbagedness.

[Lamar]

Add to the list of 24: The Local Crank. That guy who's pissed off at the world so much that he can't engage in any topic with civility.

[Ray]

Tom Tomorrow makes Mr. Doonesbury look fair and balanced. Rethink your idols.

[Lamar]

Unfortunately, liberal dooshbaggedness was pretty much covered during the Bush era: You have the pussy who is afraid to be a real man, and then the rest pretty much falls out from that.

[Ray]

The Nepotists are all Chris Buckley style Obama worshippers just now realizing they backed the wrong horse but too proud to admit they were wrong about the cut of his jib etc.

[Hobo Chang Ba]

Oh - I can play that game. Straw man, here I come:

The 24+ Types of Leftists

1.) The College Idiot
"Peace out, dude!"
(guy in Che shirt w/ goatee holding up a peace sign - Obama poster in the background)

2.) The State Socialist
"Death to the capitalist pigs!"
(guy in Che shirt w/ goatee holding a machine gun)

3.) PETA Member
"If fish kill other fish for food, it's natural. If humans kill fish for food, it's a fish holocaust! Save the fish!"

4.) Briefly Tempting
(same as the libertarian frame)

5.) Self-Loathing
"I whip myself every night for my white skin and my grandfather's errors."

6.) The Race Baiter
"Obama is overstepping his..." - "RACIST!"

7.) The PC Warrior
"Don't call them black - the new term is 'melanin-gifted'"

8.) Bizarrely Hypocritical
"I don't mind the Patriot Act and the war, as long as my party is in charge"

9.) Hollywood
"Because I'm famous, I think people really find my political opinions insightful."

10.) Hipster
"Man, chicks love guys who look cool and vote for Obama."

11.) Bushwhacker
"It's Bush's fault Obama is incompetent. Bush is such a monkey!"

12.) The Entitled
"Don't you dare cut MY benefits!" *which I don't pay for

13.) Limousine
"I deeply care about the riffraff, as long as I don't have to live near them or see them"

14.) Paul Krugman
"I get these vivid sexual dreams about John Maynard Keynes every night."

15.) Class Envious
"But millionaires MUST be stealing from high school dropouts and starving artists."

16.) Dumpster Anarchist/Gutterpunk
"F* capitalism! It's excess is the only reason I'm still alive."

17.) Revisionist Historian
"Margaret Sanger -- racist?! -- blah blah blah, I can't hear you!"

18.) The Stoner
(same as the libertarian frame)

19.) The Queer Feminist
"If you don't spell it with a 'y' than you are a patriarchal pig!"
(girl w/ pierced nose and "Womyn" t-shirt)

20.) Anti-Corporate
"I hate corporations...Hey, you wanna go to Whole Foods?"

21.) Naive
"If government could regulate everything, we wouldn't have any problems."

22.) Unionist
"We will fight for workers rights by forcing them to join our union!"

23.) The Wannabe Intellectual
"Only by the destabilization of the capitalist dialectic shall we understand the post-structuralist future."

25.) The True Believer
"If grant-seeking environmental organizations say global warming exists, it MUST!"

26.) George Soros
"Okay, guys - just ignore my destabilization of currencies, where I plunged millions into poverty so I could become a billionaire."

27.) Gunshy
"Guns oppress women. They should just try to talk potential rapists out of it."

28.) Compromiser
"Democrats are such corporate sellouts. I'm still going to vote for them."

blah blah blah

[kwais]

Barry Deutsch do a cartoon about those why don't you?
Srsly.

[Mike Laursen]

Pretty good. The only one I could think of was the "Limousine", maybe because I'm surrounded by tons of them.

[Apartment Ferret Farmer]

Where the hell am I?!?!?

[Kwix]

Just the 400th comment.

[yankees hats]

"Obama is overstepping his..." - "RACIST!!!"

[cheap new era hats]

1. I just would like to give a huge two thumbs up for the great data you have here on this article. This really is very good content and educational we blog, I praise what you've carried out New Era Hats right here, along with sharing great material with excellent suggestions and concepts, I am truly pleased to post my comment on this we blog, many thank you's towards the author.

[wholesale new era hats]

wholesale New Era MLB Hats

wholesale New Era Jordan Hats

[wholesale new era hats]

wholesale New Era MLB Hats

wholesale New Era Jordan Hats

[Moncler Jackets]

it is a good site to recomment to all of youhttp://www.moncler-jacket-sales.com/