Full Disclosure

Depending on whom you've been reading this week, this website and the magazine and video journalism site associated with it are either part of a group of right-wing organizations motivated by funding from a wingnutty family  associated with the John Birch Society and Joseph Stalin . . . or . . . we're a hedonistic bunch, minds clouded by dope, hellbent on promoting "practically any and all forms of destructive human behavior," who are "promoting the 'progressive' views of George Soros."

And they say investigative journalism is dead.

Comments

[Charles]

Both!

[Colin]

+1

[The Libertarian Guy]

Neither.

And a hearty "fuck off' to the owners of both links.

[Mr. FIFY]

Could've just posted links to FreeRepublic and DemocraticUnderground... same difference.

[Chony]

Well, I can agree with one of the links, anyway...

[MNGbot]

Yup! Me too!

[Drake]

Yep. Both. And more, just visit Lewrockwell.com.

[Episiarch]

Reason is a floor wax and a dessert topping!

[rah62]

Here, I'll spray some on your mop *and* some on your butterscotch pudding!

[ClubMedSux]

Okay, I'll admit it: I'm a CommieNazi. And I'll be damned if McBain gets those UNICEF pennies to the puny children who need them!

[Ken Shultz]

You know it's funny, 'cause that's exactly what I've been shooting for!

Congratulations!

[Max]

Wiat, there's third option--you're a tiny band of completely irrelevant losers who couldn't grab you asses with both hands if you lives depended on it.

[Enough About Palin]

Who you calling asses? And even if we are, what makes you even think we'd want to grabe each other?

[Rabbit Scribe]

"Who you calling asses?"

He's calling Wiat an ass. Can't you read? And if anybody sees Wiat, that ass still owes me twenty bucks.

[MWG]

...and yet here you are.

[Colin]

+1

[AA]

I never thought about it like that. Glad you had the time to point that out.

[Enyap]

You forgot your link and mandatory LOL anonbot.

[bob]

with all that anger max probably has problems in his own life. give him a break.

[Tomcat1066]

Well, he needs to buck up and just accept the fact that he has a small penis and with his 300+ lbs on a 5'6" frame that he will just have to remember what it even looked like.

Life's hard. Wear a helmet.

[Girl Who Broke Ur Heart]

Wiat, there's third option--you're a tiny band of completely irrelevant losers who couldn't grab you asses with both hands if you lives depended on it.

Oh, Max. Winner, or loser, is that something you could possibly gauge? Just by thinking your thoughts limited by the parameters dug deep in your mind, you are not even in the race.

[Ragin Cajun]

I like this quote the best:

all of them promoting the usual billionaire-friendly ideas of the free market, deregulation and smaller government

Oh noes! Free market! Smaller government! Those damn libertarians, wanting to leave everyone alone!

[Ghost of Schr?dinger's cat]

I hate poor people because they smell bad and don't have good taste in clothing.

But why do you hate them

[Almanian]

Cause they got nothin for me to steal from them. And lord knows, all wealth comes from stealing it from others.

[Aresen]

I always liked Johnny Hart's "Robbing Hood" in The Wizard of Id:

He robbed from the Wretch to give to the Peer.

[Almanian]

Look at those evul Koch guys - pimping from commies AND cheating people in the US. Why, there oughta be a law...

[Coeus]

It mostly stems from that time when one of them made fun of my stylish top-hat and monocle.

[MattXIV]

I think the best part is when the alternet idiot describes using dubious patent litigation to keep new entrants out of the market as "laissez-faire".

[David]

Yeah, that was pretty rich.

[Hazel Meade]

I mean, we couldn't have anything "billionare-friendly" happen, could we?

I guess that means that we'll have to suffer through global warming. Billionaires might benefit in some way from stopping it.

[Andrew S.]

I'm pretty sure that means you guys are doing things the right way.

[Mike Laursen]

Congrats!

[lunchstealer]

I've been wearing that particular pair of criticisms longer than I've known the term 'libertarian'.

So yeah, keep up the good work!

[Dave Weigel]

Plus, they produced Dave Weigel. That guy sucks!

[Tomcat1066]

+1

Oh, wait...

[?]

Fishing for compliments causes baldness.

[wesley]

I like how both investigators describe their subjects as "strange", as if their investigating has discovered and then properly classified some new animal.

[Episiarch]

People who don't want to control other people's lives are a very strange animal to them.

[what]

can the reason foundation refute any of the allegations from the alternet article?

[sage]

Yeah, they're racists too! Prove me wrong!

[MWG]

Dammit sage. I saw your comment as mine was slowly appearing...

[Hazel Meade]

The alternet article puts a wierd spin on the story of a guy who basically experienced communism up close and personal, then decided to fight it, going so far as to take a trip to the USSR to try to educate Russians about capitalism.

For some odd reason they seem to think that his motives must have had something to do with business deals gone sour, or some other greedy evil purpose. They can't conceive of the possibility that having witnessed the actual effects of communism from a businessman's perspective, he might have formed an educated judgement that it was both evil and didn't work.

They also dismiss as paranoia his belief that the communists were engaged in subversion of the US, despite (a) his own first hand experience with actually communists in the USSR, (b) his first hand accounts of what actual communist told him, and (c) documented historical proof that that the USSR was attempting to do exactly what the guy said they were attempting to do.

In short, the alternet article bends way over backwards to try to convey the impression that Koch's motives are impure, and avoid the straightforward story - a guy who saw communism up close decided that he hated it.

[Jeffersonian]

It striked me that, had the Kochs been pawns and collaborators with Stalin, Alter would have found that just dandy.

[David]

Do you believe it should be the responsibility of the Reason Foundation to refute allegations made against any and all of its donors? Most of the "allegations" I saw in the article were regarding alleged skimming by the Kochs. The other "allegations" are, as far as I can tell, simply the author disapproving of the Kochs. I certainly can't refute that.

[MWG]

Racist! Prove me wrong.

[Enyap]

Most of the allegations seemed true. Though he forgot the part where he explain why these are bad things.

[Almanian]

Also, thanks, Radley, for writing something that's merely entertaining and doesn't make me want to shoot myself after reading it. Thanks again!

[l0phty]

+1

[Tristan Band]

Best. H&R entry. Ever. As long as we piss off both left and right, libertarianism is alive and well.

I've only skimmed the articles, glanced really, but it's all true. We deny none of it; both of them have exposed us. We are without shame.

[Tulpa]

I don't read either of those websites, so you're wrong.

[Max]

You libertoid fucks make Moonies look rational. The world passes you by while you jerk each other off (ideologically, of course).

[sage]

STFU Edward.

[Episiarch]

Your impotent rage is so yummy and sweet, Edward.

[Edward]

Remember me Edward? We can do this all over again. You can come up with a much better troll name than Forrest can't you?

[barfman]

*barf*

(I'm tired...)

[Jamie Kelly]

My cock grew three sizes too big when I read this post.
Big-cock kudos to Reason! Keep shoving it up the conservo/liberal stink chute!

[Jamie Kelly]

boobies!

[Jamie Kelly]

My cock grew three sizes too big when I read this post.
Large-penis kudos to the Reason staff. Keep shoving the dick of freedom up the ol' convervo/liberal stink chute!

[J sub D]

Gosh, golly gee whiz. Both the Democrats and Republicans, the left and the right, think my political philosophy is beyond the pale.

I look at the encroaching police state, interventionist foreign wars, counterproductive social policies, Detroit's school system, crony capitalism, and trilions and trillions of debt amassed by these groups with no end in sight and will wear their sneering hatred and palpable fear of thinkers like me who are not on the blue/red spectrum, not a Dem/GOP sports team rooter, nor positioned on the one dimensional left/right line as a badge of fucking honor.

[sage]

This ^

[J sub D]

BTW, I don't want government programs to fail, I rationally expect them to.

[Crawdad]

Can't you do both? I want it and expect it. So far, I have yet to be disappointed. They always find a way to screw the pooch.

[skr]

+1e100000

[Episiarch]

But you can't not be on the red/blue spectrum, Jsub! That's too much for their little brains to comprehend. Therefore, to TEAM BLUE, if you don't agree with them 100%, you're TEAM RED, and vice versa.

Partisans are very sophisticated thinkers. Just ask them.

[AA]

+10 from J sub D to the Episiarch above me.

[Jamie Kelly]

My main vain grew three sizes too big when I read this post.
Engorged kudos to the Reason staff. Keep shoving the shaft of freedom up the ol' convervo/liberal stink chute!

[Jamie Kelly]

My main vain grew three sizes too big when I read this post. Engorged kudos to the Reason staff. Keep shoving the shaft of freedom up the ol' convervo-liberal stink chute!

[Jaime Kelly]

My main vain grew three sizes too big when I read this post. Engorged kudos to the Reason staff. Keep shoving the shaft of freedom up the ol' convervo-liberal stink chute!

[heller]

It's perfectly appropriate and just that the money stolen from socialism's victims go toward promoting freedom and fighting socialism.

[heller]

And the second piece doesn't even deserve a response. Such idiotic drivel shouldn't be read by anyone with half a brain.

[Cliff Kincaid]

I'm a big-government right-wing pig-fucker. And damned proud of it.

[Mikey]

That pig had better be of the female persuasion...

[Gay Pig]

Homophobe!

[stopdrugwar]

Everyone associated with Reason should be very proud.

[Warty]

KOCHTOPUS = Stalin? It makes sense.

Also, I enjoy the fact that "Drop Barbies, Not Bombs, on Iran." is unacceptable.

[heller]

Also, being gay is unacceptable.

[Jaime Kelly]

Shit. Sorry. My bad.

[Paul]

Any group who believes the first amendment should be unrestricted and as such, should let the chips fall where they may will be held in disdain by Coke and Pepsi.

[The Libertarian Guy]

Dig this stupid shit:

Beck Takes Sharp Turn to the Left

http://www.rightsidenews.com/2.....-left.html

What a knee-slapper!

[Media Matters]

What what???

[Kunt Olbermann]

That's news to me!

By the way, I officially changed my first name. Seems more fitting. I hope my viewer likes it.

[Rachel Maddow]

I love it!

[Ed Schultz]

I can't come up with a nickname for myself. Guess I'll just be the left-wing Limbaugh.

Oh, hey... there's a thought after all!

[TP]

I don't know if anyone caught this yesterday, but the SPLC published a "hit list" of Patriots ? people who generally believe that the federal government is an evil entity that is engaged in a secret conspiracy to impose martial law, herd those who resist into concentration camps, and force the United States into a socialistic "New World Order" ? also has been propelled by people who were key players in the first wave of the Patriot movement in the mid?1990s, there are also a large number of new players. What follows are profiles of 35 individuals at the heart of the resurgent movement:

OF COURSE Ron Paul and the Judge made the list. What is it, pledge month over there? Perhaps, they've outlived their usefulness. I checked their map of hate groups, and in my area they cited the AC Skins. The AC Skins are some suck ass neo-nazi death metal band. That's right, a fucking musical group.

[Mr. FIFY]

To the SPLC, anyone right-of-center is a potential teabagging domestic terrorist.

And a racist.

But I repeat myself.

[Tomcat1066]

Several of us Georgia Libertarian bloggers are quite upset we didn't make that list. I'm shooting for making it next year, but 2012 might be more realistic.

[SPLC]

We're watching you anyway. We know you're going to blow something up... it's just a matter of time.

[Tomcat1066]

Next time, tell us we're being watched damn it!

[TP]

Shooting whom?

[capitol l]

If you read the section on the Judge, the only facts presented are positive, the rest is a study in fallacious and disingenuous arguments.

They could use that piece in a rhetoric class on what not to do.

[Tulpa]

In the midst of an otherwise vomitous article about Obama saying nice things about the VAT comes this howler:

[Obama] said his first priority "is to figure out how can we reduce wasteful spending so that, you know, we have a baseline of the core services that we need and the government should provide. And then we decide how do we pay for that."

[The Left Wing]

But... but... WE'RE the ones who invented comparing libertarians to communists!

[The Right Wing]

No no no! It was WE who came up with that bogus comparison!

[tkwelge]

I primarily read the first article, and I want to make a few points.

The article claims that Koch made money from socialism rather than any kind of free market. However, the article itself revealed how intelligent Fred was, and it was the value of what he offered that he was able to parlay into wealth, which smacks of free marketeerism to me, even if he was selling it to a customer who happened to be a socialist. The article even goes on to mention how Fred became disillusioned with the soviet union, and witnessed its evil first hand. A man who realized the effect of crony capitalism, and soviet shenanigans, first hand, is a man who would most likely give birth to a true free market movement, in my opinion.

From the article:

"Once, my father ran a business in the ex-Soviet Union, and all engineers who worked with my father were imprisoned by Stalin later. My father, who had experienced this, became an anti-communist and thought the value of economical freedom and prosperity was more important than ever before," Charles said during an interview with a Korean newspaper in 2008, leaving out the part how evil socialist cash was the foundation of the Koch family's wealth.// end

Um, the younger Koch just said that his father "ran a business in the ex soviet union..." In what way did he hide this fact? I'm not seeing the lies or the controversy here. I don't fault anybody for taking money to offer services to the soviet union, unless they were directly involved in torture experiments of some kind. Lots of western experts were used for their skills. My main complaint about the soviet union isn't that they liked to hire contractors.

[TP]

I guess this is as good a time as any to re-post a comment that was on one of these threads a while back. Yeah, I stole it.

The Typical Libertarian is hated by conservatives because he wants the freedom to snort coke off a teenaged hookers ass while smoking pot and watching a movie full of boobies and cuss words in preparation for sodomizing his illegal immigrant housekeeper, Carlos. The Typical Libertarian also wants criminals, terrorists and Mexicans to roam freely about causing all manner of social chaos, and has no interest in forcing people to love Jesus Christ. The Typical Libertarian is a traitor to the GOP and America because he failed to support the war in Iraq, the PATRIOT Act, the Stimulus, and both Bush and McCain, despite the fact that both men once said something at a cocktail party about maybe possibly lowering taxes on some people some day.

The Typical Libertarian is hated by liberals because he is a crypto-archconservative who wants poor people to go without education, medical care, police protection, food, shelter, and oxygen. The Typical Libertarian spends his weekends running down endangered species in his monstrous, gas-guzzling SUV before stopping off to smoke a pack of cigarettes in a daycare. The Typical Libertarian wants the world to be run by unaccountable multinational conglomerates instead of unaccountable governments. The Typical Libertarian is a racist, sexist, profit-driven nihilist who failed to mark the ascendance of the Chosen One, and has never protested for Union rights nor worn a T-shirt with the word Darfur on it.

Despite clinging to a hopelessly unworkable, idealistic and marginal political philosophy, the Typical Libertarian has recently been discovered as the cause for the downfall of Western Civilization.

http://www.newsweek.com/id/164502

[Ghost of Schr?dinger's cat]

tl; dr

I thought you left

[The Libertarian Guy]

From the SPLC hit-piece on Catherine Bleish, of the Liberty Restoration Project:

"The actions of our federal government [are] going to create violence. And my goal ? is to try and stop it peacefully before it gets to that point."...

Wow. Yeah, I can see now she's clearly a threat to the nation.

And this:

"Chris Broughton loves his guns and hates President Obama ? so much, in fact, that he believes the president belongs in hell. He's not too fond of George W. Bush, either."

[sarcasm switch now in "OFF" position]

[Mr. FIFY]

For someone who "edits" Accuracy in Media, Kincaid sure drops the ball when describing libertarians...

[Tomcat1066]

Accuracy in Media only applies to anyone who Kincaid thinks isn't conservative enough...which includes a large chunk of every group known to man. Hell, he thinks Rupert Murdoch is to cozy with liberals for Christ's sake.

[Mad Max]

Murdoch can be cosy with liberals if there's profit in it. He's a businessman.

[Enyap]

Best of the SPLC hitlist

"edited video footage of the scene to hide his race (he's black) when reporting on the racist backlash to Obama's election. Presumably, he felt that was part of an effort to paint Obama's critics as racist."

"While some people might complain about answering Census questions, Bachmann sees a sinister plot hearkening back to World War II. "They used the U.S. Census information to round up the Japanese and put them in the internment camps," she said during an interview with Fox News' Glenn Beck last year. "Americans were told that they wouldn't have their information used against them. They did."

"On his congressional website, he warns that Census information has been used to intern Japanese Americans and find alleged tax evaders and draft dodgers. "It is not hard to imagine that information compiled by the Census could be used against people in the future, despite claims to the contrary."

"He regularly rips undocumented workers and the "socialist" and "Marxist" policies of the Obama Administration. He assures his nearly all-white audiences that neither he nor the Patriot movement is racist (although he did once co-author a book with white separatist Randy Weaver). Had it been his call, Mack would not have made Rosa Parks get off that bus back in 1955, he says. She was merely disobeying a bad law, and cops waste time "enforcing stupid laws all the time."

[Carlos]

Promoting civil disobedience? Endorsing Rosa Parks? This is some dangerous shit we're dealing with here.

[SIV]

Has anybody ever heard of "Cliff Kincaid of Right Side News" ? His views on drug policy are "classical progressive". He sees the "pro-drug" element infiltrating Fox News, CPAC, Hot Air (owned by Christians!),Cato, Koch Reason etc.

Hell if he looked a little further he'd find it at National Review , The Heritage Foundation, the late Milton Friedman, Bush Family-fixer and Reagan confidante James Baker,the late legend William F Buckley, Nixon/Ford/Reagan Cabinet-member George Schultz,conservative talk radio pioneer and legend Neil Boortz, The Hoover Institute, George Mason University economics department,2 time former GOP New Mexico Governor Gary Johnson, top righty blogger Glenn Reynolds/ Instapundit, Rush Limbaugh's best substitute radio host Dr Walter Williams, I'm surely leaving out many more.. . Those damn druggies are all over the Right Wing Conservative movement.

[capitol l]

The only thing remarkable about Cliff Kincaid is that his forehead is large enough to carve "douchebag" into it with a razor sharp hunting knife.

Also, he is obviously gay.

[Ron L]

This gets tiring.
We're all fed the statist view from broadcast (and most cable) TV channels, and what remains of the newspapers. Hell, we get twice the minimum daily requirement every day. So no one is lacking the 'knowledge' of the arguments from that side.
Instead, we deal with bozos like MNG who 'researches' libertarianism from, oh, "Paul" who covers politics between the sports and the weather 'after we come back from the break'. Oh, and a report on the first chapter of "Atlas Shrugged" by a roommate in college years ago.
It's like dealing with equally ignorant bozos claiming the 'evolution means jo-moma was an ape'

[Kaganspawn]

I read the right-wing one by Kincaid. Got to the end and saw Comments (0). That's right about as much attention as it deserved I guess.

[iJust]

He might be screening the comments. Many sites that are concerned with getting agreement rather than actual commentary are familiar with the practice.

[Franklin Harris]

Notice how the AlterNet hack puts "economist" in scare quotes when referring to Ludwig von Mises. I guess if you disagree with the jackasses at AlterNet, you're not even entitled to your profession.

[Random Dude]

Ah take it easy on 'em. Those "reporters" need a little bit of spice in their bland "journalism."

[Comrade Zero]

The "Libertarians" (please note the quotes) I've met in person are probably the worst possible examples of the philosophy. They want the casual - absent - morals of liberalism and the intellectual emptiness of conservatism. They don't want the obligations that come with either philosophy. They don't want to make an effort to understand differences among races and cultures and "conservative" values such as duty and national loyalty are a similar burden to these people.

And they, too, have a book report-level of understanding of Atlas ("I'm not being an asshole..uh..I'm being selfish and Ayn Rand says it's okay!") I've read Atlas and I know it's much, much more than that.

In my readings here, I've found Libertarianism to be much more that I had expected. It's just a shame that more people don't look past the stereotypes.

[Kant feel Pietzsche]

Welcome Comrade. Oh, could you bend over for a sec? Just need a surface to ingest this free-range fair-trade Bolivian marching powder from. Thanks.

[Kant feel Pietzsche]

Ok, I'll stop fucking with you. And you are right about many "big L" Libertarians. I think most of us would classify ourselves as "small l" libertarians.

You are also right about "book-report" levels of understanding, but need to expand your criticism. The vast majority of people who subscribe to ANY political view have more of a "cliff's-notes" understanding of what they spew, if that.

I came to my views through a lot of reading on multiple and varied subjects, and years of hard thinking. And I feel perfectly at home here.

[Comrade Zero]

I'm more with you all than against, though. I learn more by asking questions (sometimes provocatively, sometimes not) and offering observations and reading the responses.

There are serious problems I have with libertarianism and objectivism, born through a similar process of thought and study, though. If nothing else, it's nice to have an alternate viewpoint to test my own against.

[Tristan Band]

Comrade Zero, if you ever want to bounce some ideas off me, feel free to contact me.

[samuel]

Now I finally got the Memo!

Being a libertarian is being a : Dope smoking cocaine addict Nazi morally depraved (read homosexual) member of the Soviet Communist party of the USSR inner circle of Pig Capitalist Pigs !

[Patricia Mayo]

No no - you're the knights who say NIH!

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