Census Bureau Misses Chance to Create Make-Work Jobs
In my mailbox yesterday, addressed to "Resident":
You probably got one too! Apparently, it's Next-Week-Is-Census-Day Day!
Once the initial "you have got to be kidding me" response subsided, I called up the folks at the Census Bureau and they were kind enough to send me their canned response to the "are you freaking kidding me?" calls and emails they have been getting all day. Excerpted below:
Thank you for your email. We here at the Census Bureau certainly understand your concern, and I want to assure you we care a great deal about being good stewards of the taxpayer's money….
Based on historical response rates, we expect roughly two thirds of households will mail back their form. The rest we will have to send an enumerator to collect the data required by the Constitution. You can imagine that follow-up is an expensive proposition. In fact, every one percent increase in the number of households who mail back the form saves the taxpayers about $85 million in expensive door-to-door follow up. That's why we advertise and promote, to increase the mail back response rate and help save on expensive labor to follow up.
We have extensive research that shows additional mailings alerting households to the arrival of the census form increase response rates by about 6 to 12 percentage points. The savings from that increase more than pay for these mailings. It costs about $85 million to print and mail the advance letter and reminder postcard. The potential increase in response rates demonstrated by our research could result in a savings of more than $500 million….
The total we spend on all promotion and advertising is about one dollar per person in the U.S. It costs just 42 cents to mail back the form. But it costs $57 for follow up with non-responding households, many of which we must visit several times to reach someone at home….
We appreciate your civic minded spirit, and your concern for our current fiscal situation. I hope this information helps explain the steps we are taking to reduce the burden on taxpayers of meeting our Constitutional mandate to count every person in the country.
Not bad, actually. Also, I reached a human being immediately when I called the (easily findable) Census office number, and he was able to promptly answer my question, which virtually never happens in government bureaucracy PR offices.
My only remaining question: What about the lost stimulus effect of sending out all those official "enumerators" to count the recalcitrant? All those make work government jobs, lost! Unavoidable conclusion: This startling instance of government efficiency is ruining our economy and keeping unemployment high.
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I received one too. I am not certain whether to fill out and return my actual census form. Any suggestions.
I got the long form 10 years ago. I gave them my name, age (so they would know if I was of voting age or not) and a phone number to reach me if they wanted to threaten me with the fine and/or arrest me.
I left the rest blank. They did send someone to my house, I refused to answer questions, including what race I am, when he persisted in asking me questions, I slammed the door in his face.
This story is not over. Moar please.
Nope, that was it. I think it was him writing down white after I refused to answer the race question that pissed me off.
Robc, freedom fighter, or idiot? The Constitution explicitly says the Census can be carried out "in such manner as they [Congress] shall by law direct", so it's clear it can constitutionally include any questions the Congress "directs" it to ask. The very first census asked questions based on race (they had to count whites, free blacks, slave blacks and Native Americans differently, remember). But no matter all that text and history, TEH LUBERTY or something...
HELLO SHIT FACKTORY!
EOM
Oh, it's Gobby that does this. My guess to this point was the Suki Collective (John T's Multiple Personakities), but Gobby makes sense too (the obssessive, impotent anger, the lack of ability to transcend the multi-sentence barrier, etc).
"so it's clear it can constitutionally include any questions the Congress "directs" it to ask."
So if directed by congress, I have to answer if I have any illegal drugs or stolen property in my house?
The language of the US Constitution suggests the answer is yes.
So if they asked you if you were an idiot, you would have to say yes?
Unlikely, since the right against self incrimination was introduced in an amendment and thus supercedes the census article.
The language of the US Constitution suggests the answer is yes no.
FIFY. See Fifth Amendment. Thanks for playing.
This is what makes me queasy about the Census. However, I'm sure you'll find some way to be cavalier about that too.
Because clearly, there wouldn't be a large public outcry if something like that happened again. Because something was abused once, IT CAN NEVER BE TRUSTED AGAIN.
Do you not have the reading comprehension ability of a native English speaker, or, perhaps, you have some learning disability that prevents the processing and decoding of textual information?
Tell me, where was the large public outcry when:
The Department of Homeland Security asked the Census Bureau in 2003 for details about where Arab populations live in the United States, receiving detailed information about any town where more than 1000 people from Arabic-speaking countries are living. They also got a multi-hundred-page breakdown by Zip codes of every person who self-identified on the census as Egyptian, Iraqi, Jordanian, Lebanese, Moroccan, Palestinian, Syrian, Arab/Arabic, or "Other Arab". The Electronic Privacy Information Center discovered this via the Freedom of Information Act and posted the results. EPIC also offers an overview of census privacy.
By the way, don't worry, V2, he promised he'll never hit you again. You see, he was just stressed from work and you didn't have dinner ready when he got home...
The Constitution clearly states the purpose of the census is to enumerate the citizens for the purpose of apportioning representatives. The "in such manner" refers to the way they get that information, it is not an open license to ask anything they wish. The need for racial identity was made off obsolete and therefore off-limits by the 14th amendment. The government has no constitutional or reasonable basis for needing to know my race, much less the other intrusive information they request on the census form with the exception of my name and age. You may not care about your rights, but I do and I will not cooperate beyond the level required by the constitution for a citizen of this country.
A black man should plead the 5th to the race question since driving while black as well as standing around while black and being black in the wrong place at the wrong time while some white "witness" saw a crime happening have been known to incriminate.
The very first census asked questions based on race (they had to count whites, free blacks, slave blacks and Native Americans differently, remember).
You only count as 3/5 of a person for this census.
Got one today. Mine was in Spanish (and English too).
Departamento de Comercio de Los Estados Unidos
It costs 85 million dollars to print and send a single page letter?
Well, say 170 million households (approx), that's 50 cents per mailing. Actually, that's not too bad.
Well, Census Bureau, it seems that I like you, which is why I will kill you last.
Read the sentence again please.
And then read the other sentence again...
They make it up in volume, and pass the savings to you by mailing you a postcard!
They save $85 million per percent. It costs them $85 million to send out the letters. They save 6-12%. Let me do the math for you.
Low end saving: (6 x 85 million) - 85 million = 425 million
High end saving: (12 x 85 million) - 85 million = 935 million
Saving that much seems like a damn good deal doesn't it?
About 100 million households. At least as of 10 years ago. Maybe 110 now?
That's 77 cents a household. That's still comparable to the cost per piece in a direct mail campaign.
Why does it cost anything? The mailman is already on his route every day. Tell him "drop one of these in every box."
I received one too. I am not certain whether to fill out and return my actual census form. Any suggestions.
Well, Constitutionally, I think one's required to say how many people live at the address. So I think they're entitled to that information. All the other crap they ask about? Not as such.
What about the lost stimulus effect of sending out all those official "enumerators" to count the recalcitrant? All those make work government jobs, lost!
Illogical, illogical.... *smoke coming out of ears*
"It costs just 42 cents to mail back the form."
Um, isn't a stamp 44 cents now?
Bulk mail rate, perhaps.
Or maybe I'm giving them too much credit -- one part of the government typically has no idea what another part of the government is doing.
It's also probable that the 42 cents is the cost to process the incoming mail. I'm pretty sure the laws that regulate the USPS contain wording about certain government uses (and how they don't have to pay or only have to pay cost (which is probably close to 42c) or something like that)
I was goinbg to try to write an intelligent comment, but then I saw the Beer Wars ad.
Now I just want to know about the Beer Wars.
It's as bad as a Will Ferrell film. Don't waste your time.
I watched it on Netflix IW. Well, I started watching it. It's a shame that it's a "modern documentary" - a long personal diatribe that spends more time ignoring reality than documenting it.
The total we spend on all promotion and advertising is about one dollar per person in the U.S.
It's also about the lifetime federal tax payments of a few thousand about average people. That's a fine waste of their working decades.
Well, if you want to be cynical and look at it that way you can. Or, you can think, "Hmm... this happens once every ten years. A dollar per person = 10 cents per person, per year, for ten years."
Use some common sense. The census form is actually incredibly important because it lets politicians know how much tax money to disperse in areas and focus on problems that may come to light due to the Census.
On the other hand the "wars" in Iraq and Afghanistan have costs the taxpayers about a dollar EVERY DAY for the past 9 years.
What if you lie on the form? Like saying that you are a bisexual polyamorous wiccan with a household income in the billions and own 600 parakeets and watch 168 hours of TV every week?
IOW, just your average American.
You go on the terrorist watch list.
If it isn't already a federal felony, it falls well within the 'absolutely anything imaginable' discretionary powers of federal law enforcement officers.
""What if you lie on the form? Like saying that you are a bisexual polyamorous wiccan with a household income in the billions and own 600 parakeets and watch 168 hours of TV every week?""
How do we know you're not lying?
Exactly, and unless the government drones do sanity checks on each piece of data they input (or some sort of number crunching to get rid of outliers... but its a census not a survey) its possible you could skew something the results in some really funny ways.
They send you to sit with Arlo Guthrie and the father rapers playing with the pencils at the jailhouse. Enjoy
They send you to sit with Arlo Guthrie Steve Smith and the father rapers playing with the pencils at the jailhouse. Enjoy
Fixed it myself, thanks
YOU CAN RAPE ANYTHING YOU WANT AT ALICES RESTAURANT, INCLUDING ALICE ?
hahaha
the regular census doesn't ask those questions, they may be in the American Communities Survey, which is completely random and much less time consuming than the long form used to be.
I regularly need to call the Census bureau regarding Economic Census data. They're eerily responsive and helpful, almost as if they don't have anything to do...
""The rest we will have to send an enumerator to collect the data required by the Constitution."""
You could hand the census worker a copy of the Constitution and have them point out where it says so. You might have problems with airport security after the fact, but hey, it would be fun watching them squirm.
I once thought like this. Then I tried something similar, and find myself surprised when reality didn't meet fantasy. They won't squirm, but they'll off-handedly label you as a crazy for questioning authority.
If you tried that on someone with a badge, it would be disturbing the peace or resisting arrest.
"""If you tried that on someone with a badge, it would be disturbing the peace or resisting arrest."""
How would asking for help with the Constitutional requirement equal either of those.
I was alluding to the virtually unlimited discretion law enforcement officers have for probable cause. Holding up in court is another matter, but that doesn't stop the cuffs initially.
""but that doesn't stop the cuffs initially.""
That's true.
Rather than assume you have any idea of what I'm talking about, I'll just spell it out.
An "anti-government terrorist" (or "anti-government disturbed person" etc) recently shot two officers while trying to force entry into the pentagon. Saying things like "show me the part in the constitution where..." could be construed as suspicious behavior. Obviously not in the context of talking to a census worker.
Oh, I got it. That's why I was talking about ending up on a watch list.
Of course the funny part of that, which goes to damaged justice's comment, is the LEO will wipe his ass with your constitional rights because he thinks you're not following the Constitution.
""but they'll off-handedly label you as a crazy for questioning authority.""
Indeed. Which is why you'll end up on a watch list.
Hey! I've been out of work since last May, and took the ennumerator test. (Aced it, too.) Thanks for the warning, I'll bring my Pocket Constitution with me.
I was out of work too. Now I'm the person checking the work of the person who graded your test. Last year I was checking the work of the person who checked your address.
I would've been in Census management but I couldn't be reached over a weekend when they filled that job, apparently on an emergency basis. But to make up for that, they accidentally paid me for almost 2 mos. of wintertime field work when I was actually just in the office. But to make up for that, the office was in an awfully underheated bldg.
I'd imagine they'd point to the section that says "The actual Enumeration shall be made within three Years after the first Meeting of the Congress of the United States, and within every subsequent Term of ten Years, in such Manner as they shall by Law direct."
and I want to assure you we care a great deal about being good stewards of the taxpayer's money.
This from the jackasses that wasted $2.5 million of our tax dollars on a stupid and awful thirty second Super Bowl commercial.
Since agents of the state habitually wipe their asses with the constitution, then hide behind it whenever it's convenient, I don't give two runny shits what that crumbling piece of parchment says. I'm not even telling anyone how many people live here, and if someone doesn't like it they can go pound sand.
The reason you're able to even say these things and give your opinion is because of that "crumbling piece of parchment". It's called the first amendment. And I'd like to see you not give two shits about it when someone is violating your constitutional rights.
I wonder what thier carbon footprint is on this? Think of all the extra trees they had to slay all in the spirit of getting your fair share of government cheese.
Where are the eco-terrorists when you need them!
Is there anything so terrible about the Census missing a few extra percent of the population?
Well, how are we ever going to justify sending so much pork to our districts?
The census is a bit to Romanesque for my tatse:
Luke 2
1 Now it came to pass in those days, there went out a decree from Caesar Augustus, that all the world should be enrolled.
2 This was the first enrolment made when Quirinius was governor of Syria.
3 And all went to enrol themselves, every one to his own city.
At least you dont have to travel to your home city for it.
Not sure if that was place of birth or city of your fathers-fathers-fathers, although I thought Joseph had to go to Bethlehem because he was a descendent of David.
You had me until this:
[i]We have extensive research...[/i]
Whatever money they save on mailings has probably been eaten up by the consultants who landed this research gig.
Top Men.
Top.
Men.
I am looking forward to forcing the revenuer to drive back my quarter-mile-long (currently) mud lane. With any luck, it will require the guvmint to come in with limestone gravel or something to get my census information. I want some bang for my $57.
Can it be that the same crowd that bleats "correlation is not causation" is ignorant of the Dillman Survey Research Method, taught in every social science intro research methods class? Say it ain't so!
http://www.amazon.com/Mail-Int.....0471323543
I came home the other day, to find a little "present" from the Census Bureau hanging on my door. The envelope has "YOUR RESPONSE IS REQUIRED BY LAW" on the front.
I have not yet opened it.
I got the long form last time. I threw it in the pile with all the other junk mail, and promptly forgot all about it. Some time later, a guy who looked like he'd been recruited from the men's room at the bus station came knocking at my door; he asked three or four questions, said "thankyew" and vamoosed.
Wow P Brooks, the freedom-loving courage of your defiance, you're a modern day Braveheart!
I bet you grimly cut off those "don't remove under penalty of law" tags on merchandise you brave guardian of liberty!
You people are really too much.
I'm with Gobbler. You are a shit factory.
How do you type with your head up your ass like that?
It seems sand in the vagina is more common here than previously thought. No matter, the remedy for you is the same as that recommended to warty: snug panties.
You really are a cunt, M. So go fuck yourself.
You really are a cunt, M. So go fuck yourself.
Ah, the double posted profanity-laden post! Feel the white hot impotent rage balanced with limited verbal and cognitive ability!
Your rage is so yummy, mmm-mmm!
...Basically. Though this one isn't as bad as some of the others, claiming the government is going to use the census to kill us all and/or watch us masturbate. This one only recounts a personal anecdote.
I always answer the census - no problem. I do not like the fact that my wife and I each got the letter (cause I have two places). Pure waste.
I'm thinking I don't want to answer when they knock and ask why I didn't answer the letter to my place in Ohio.
"Cause I live in Michigan."
"But you live here."
"No, I live in Michigan."
"Then why are you here."
"I work here during the week, so I got a place to crash. I sleep here during the week."
"Then you live here."
"No..."
"Please place your hands behind your head and step slowly outside..."
No problem. Just mail it back saying the number of occupants is zero.
That's too easy, dammit!
What if 25% of households did this? Would that mean 25% fewer members of congress?
Anarchy!
Just because your living arrangment is a philosophical conundrum: "Is home where you usually sleep or where you'd rather be?", don't blame the poor census people for being confused, they are only short time government workers after all.
I don't know if Miss Katherine cares, but she blacked-out her address but didn't black out the zip+4 part... which means any zip-lookup will find her. She might want to black the last four digits on the zip, too, then...
Google maps suggests something that looks a lot like an Apartment Building at corner of 16th and W NW.
Knowing how far google maps is on my house though, I wouldnt trust that if I was going to get all stalky.
And if she does care, feel free to delete my post after blacking out your zip+4.
Google maps ignores the +4, so it just shows you the center of the 20009 area.
Google Maps sucks. Mapquest is where it's at.
Nothing beats a ghillie suit and high-power lens. Am I right, fellas?
Okay.. there's me.. my wife.. our plants.. we have some candy bars..
Check "other" for ancestry and write in an SQL injection.
This is the most awesome idea I have ever encountered.
http://xkcd.com/327/
Don't you have some medicine-hoarding pennypincher to enslave, MaunderingkNobGobbler?
Your rage is so yummy
I don't know about anybody else, but when an eight year old kid rams his mother's shopping cart into mine (repeatedly) I do not become enraged, I roll my eyes and shake my head, and find another part of the store.
Sorry to disappoint you.
I once thought like this. Then I tried something similar, and find myself surprised when reality didn't meet fantasy. They won't squirm, but they'll off-handedly label you as a crazy for questioning authority.
Well, keep in mind that Census workers have been sort of jumpy ever since the Hannibal Lecter incident.
Do the Walken method.
Yes! I was going to post that if someone else didn't.
The only problem with Tim Meadows skits is that they could have been made during any time that he was a cast member on the show from, I believe, 1986 through 2004.
There will be no long form in this census.
The only questions are your name, your gender, your age, your race(s) and your ethnicity (which is different than race).
This really doesn't seem like overreaching government intrusion nor excessive to the Constitutional mandate in Article I, Section 2 to count residents for purpose of apportionment.
I will give them name and age. Other 3 seem unnecessary.
The hate/fear of the Census. If you don't fill out your form, it won't be a LEO interrogating you, it will be some temporary worker trying to earn a living. People here act like the government is surrounding them with BATFE agents, trying desperately to find out how many pets you have (so they know how many to shoot in the inevitable raid?). Fill out the form, send it in, and save the civil disobedience for mailing in fake 1040 forms with forged W-2s.
Hate? Sure. Fear? What's there to fear? When was the last time anyone was prosecuted -- successfully, or even at all -- for failing to respond to the census? And why bother to lie when the penalties are so much less for simply ignoring it?
That's the thing: the costs of non-compliance are a $100 fine. No jail time involved, and its debatable whether it would be worth prosecuting over. So, if you value your privacy, don't worry too much about refusing.
""And why bother to lie when the penalties are so much less for simply ignoring it?""
Not lying, just mis-spoke.
It's more fun to be paranoid, I guess.
Someone please say exactly what will happen to a person who ignores the form, short or long.
In the last 50 years, 2 people have had to pay a $100 fine for not complying. That's likely your worst-case scenario.
Is that a felony, a misdemeanor, do you have to hire a lawyer, go to court...? Does anyone know the process? Sounds like a small sample of the blood of tyrants.
Others are welcome to correct me if I'm wrong (knowing this site, I'm sure they will), but my guess is that if it went to a court date, not showing up would be equivalent to a "no contest" plea. Which would mean you would owe the fine specified by the law. Which is $100.
And again, I'm not kidding. To my knowledge, this has only been pursued by the government 2 times in the past half-decade.
For not knowing how many of us there are, hold old we are and what our sex is, Congress seems awfully confident in knowing what's best for us.
+1
As an amateur genealogist, I both love and hate the census. They certainly are a wealth of information useful for tracking down ancestors; it is amazing to me what detailed personal info my relatives ponied up to a semi-literate guy w/a clipboard who knocked on their door!
But, I'm not answering a bunch of nosy questions so that 70 years from now I can satisfy the curiosity of my gr-gr-grandaughter! We got the long form in 2000, answered only the name and # of ppl in residence. A gal came to our door to get the rest, my husband said no, and she said that we would probably not be counted then. We were cool with that.
And of course that is BS, they had enough info to count you (and me). They were just missing some sample size on the more detailed stuff - which note they dont ask of everyone, they are just statistically sampling for it.
Shouldn't only the number of citizens or eligible voters matter for apportionment? CA shouldn't get extra representatives just because they let in more immigrants than TX.
10 years ago I was uncounted. I had just moved into a new apartment building, and the CB never sent any forms or workers to count us. I tried to contact them by email and phone to get them to send a form (wanting to do my part to help Texas gain votes in Congress vs. more liberal states), but they said I would have to go to a regional Census office to prove my address, so I didn't bother.
Shouldn't only the number of citizens or eligible voters matter for apportionment?
Really, only net taxpayers should be counted.
They use the data for social programs. I am sure you're all for it!
Is it a good idea to show a full zip? Doesn't that number indicate the address of a house?
I understand why people don't like the questions besides how many people live there but you don't have to answer the other questions. counting the country's population is a proper function of the government, as well as constitutional requirement. also an accurate census count helps ensure the people are being represented appropriately in the House of Representatives. so libertarians should be in favor of answering how many people live at your address on the census.
and I really hate how the only thing that gets mentioned is how the census determines how much funding your state gets. the important thing about the census is its proper role in determining the appropriate amount of Representatives your state has in congress. that really influences the amount of power a state has in congress and an inaccurate census will produce unfair representation in the House.
LOL, this doesnt come as any real surprise at all!
Jess
http://www.real-anonymity.eu.tc
Another great example of how "common sense libertarianism" fails in the real world.
About your last question, In the area I live the unemployment rate is at about 9% and still they can't get enough people to take the jobs the census is offering at the moment. So I would say, for my little corner of the country, it really won't affect much.
Today in recruiting a woman called to ask how long it would take her to become a censor.
I'm answering the census, and writing in "American" in Question 9 when it asks for "race." You should, too.
By the way, nobody gets the long form anymore.
The lack of security is the major issue I see.....the address is on the form that was sent to you, then YOU fill out your Name, Telephone #, and Date of Birth!!!.....then send it USPS, in an envelope any ID thief can spot a mile away......yea, right!
Not to mention the lack of background checks, and NO drug testing required for these 'Census workers'......then there's the total Distain for anything that has to do with any level of government....THIS CENSUS will be a complete and total failure!!!....but, what the heck, the Feds will come up with some #'s.....just to justify the cost....and then back to the same old thing....
We are required by law to RESPOND.
My response is going to be a big fat black (or blue) marker saying, "NUNYA!"
http://www.coomararundaya.com
http://www.coomararundaya.com
If you don't fill this out then you are a lazy loser. Don't be that
"fight the machine"guy. That = a fucking nerd. Get over yourself and send in the damn form.
Look at it this way. If you fill out the form, you're putting people out of work. So, you're actually performing a service to the community by not filling out the form. I filled out the form before realizing this.
so far as my experience this census will only be a waste because people can't stop their conspiracy theory crap for two seconds and realize that there is a human standing in front of them, not just "the government". all the information that is asked is statistical, contact information is to prove that someone was doing their job. (aka good stewards)
AND FINALLY - THERE ARE TWO WAYS TO NOT BE COUNTED BY THE CENSUS, MOVE OUT OF THE US/PUERTO RICO, OR DIE (BEFORE APRIL 1ST)!!!!!
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explain the steps we are taking to reduce the burden on taxpayers of meeting our Constitutional mandate to count every person in the country
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