Bass-slapping talkshow host and weight-loss pitchman Mike Huckabee washes his hands of the Ron Paul-crowning Conservative Political Action Conference (CPAC):
"CPAC has becoming increasingly more libertarian and less Republican over the last years, one of the reasons I didn't go this year," Huckabee said in an interview with Fox News, where he is a paid analyst and has his own show.
He was responding to a question about whether he was upset by his single-digit showing in the conference's straw poll, which was won by libertarian-leaning Rep. Ron Paul (R-Texas).
The Politico article also contains this section after the jump:
But for all the enthusiasm in the hotel's corridors, much of the rhetoric on stage felt oddly dated. For every Marco Rubio – the young Florida Senate candidate who is seen as by many conservatives as their future – there was the NRA's Wayne LaPierre, rambling about Clinton-era gun control battles and showing decade-old video clips of himself jousting with TV hosts on the big screens in the ballroom.
Worse, at least in the eyes of CPAC organizers, hearty supporters of Paul showed up in part to ensure the quirky Texas septuagenarian won the straw poll.
What was seen in the past as an indicator of who conservative activists preferred in the next presidential race became ratified as all but worthless as boos rained down in the ballroom when it was disclosed that Paul had won the contest.
It certainly is interesting to watch Republicanism become more outwardly libertarian, in ways not seen since at least 1998, if not before. Is it the dying gasp of a party going the way of the Whigs, as Huckabee suggests? Will the libertarians who soured on the GOP under CPAC heroes George W. Bush and Dick Cheney ever come back? Will Ron Paul ever win a straw poll that will not post-facto be declared "all but worthless"? T
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That family is missing a few chromosomes. This guy loves to pass laws on what he finds offensive, he should start with outlawing Huckabee family photographs, I find them way offensive.
I don't know what he means by less republican. Barry Goldwater is considered the father of modern conservatism, though he often called himself an old liberal. He was dismayed when the fundies took over.
Saw part of it. Huck admitted he had gone off the weight-reduction wagon but promised to get back on it. Mrs. O said, "Next time you come in shirtless." Huck should have replied but didn't, "I will if you will." A moment lost forever.
Most First Ladies are not "..an unfair target of the opposition".
I'll remind you that she is the one declaring "for the first time in my adult life I am proud of my country"; who took a non-existent $300k/yr job in a Chicago hospital after her husband got an influential job; who disrespects the position of First Lady by traveling in Marine One dressed like some hip-hopper on the corner. But with your trashy screen name, I wouldn't expect you to understand that, much less agree.
My point was all the first ladies receive undue criticism and it across the board. They are in a solitary and unique position that requires them to respond delicately. I have sympathy for all of them. I have no interest in explaining my acronym to you. Get your mind out of the gutter.
Jackie Kennedy: too many designer labels
Lady bird Johnson: too many political questions over monopoly license issues
Pat Nixon : too much the political wife
Betty Ford: too independent
Rosalynn Carter: too much redefining of Office of the First Lady
Nancy Reagan too fashionable, china Dishes, choice of mastectomy
Barbara Bush: too outspoken
Hillary Clinton: too much ambition
Laura Bush: too careless over car accident
Not all libertarians are pro-choice. Some are adamantly pro-life, though the state's rights position is common, and the position that Murray Rothbard took.
Mike Huckabee complaining about a 'Libertarian' drift is less about the GOP in general and more about the faction Huckabee represents.
Huckabee was/is essentially the pure populist/culture warrior in the GOP field. His preferred method for delivering on those elements is classically 'Left'-style governance, dressed up under an on-steroids version of Bush the Younger's 'compassionate (Big Government) conservatism'. A popular 'Libertarian' drift cut's Huckabee out of the game, on the national stage.
That is exactly who he is. And he is 10 years too late. No one cares about cultural issues right now. The economy and stopping Obama from burning down the country is a little more important than worrying about gay marriage.
But that's the thing -- his economic positions are essentially identical to Obama's, which whether we like it or not are quite appealing to the vast majority of voters; yet he doesn't come off as a leftist because, duh, he's a Baptist preacher!
If only Huckabee were right. In the mean time, he needs to shut the fuck up. You can fight about social issues when you are too fat dumb and happy to have anything else to fight about. Right now things are just a bit too bad to be worrying about whatever dumb ass social crusade he is worried about these days.
Unfortunately according to the "logic" of many of the Statist Social Cons, gay marriage, atheism and whatever their bitch fight of the week is are the causes of America's ills.
Yes - he's a social conservative who crusades against teh fat. To be fair, I don't know if he's really anti-gay, but as a so-con, it's kind of assumed.
The ignorant hillbilly whackjob preacher* is working overtime to alienate this atheist libertarian. I would campaign for Obama's re-election if I thought the Huckster had a chance of gaining the Oval Office.
If this is actually the case, could somebody please explain to me why Paul didn't win a single primary in 2008?
The reason is that, no, the Republican Party is not becoming libertarian. The few libertarians that exist tend to scream very loudly, but one needs the other type of volume to win elections (that is, sheer numbers over loudness).
Actually, as it turns out, you probably need both.
Libertarian thinkers and activists provided vital intellectual energy for the conservative movement, in the think tanks, the alternative media, in campaigns, in NGO's, etc.
And they were a small, but measurable and necessary, component of the GOP electoral coalition.
With the libertarians driven out, good luck rolling back Obama. Good luck keeping the movement going intellectually with Ramesh Ponnuru. Have fun with that.
You see, John? One reason I refuse to forget is this: Bush is out of power now, so there generally aren't fresh policy outrages every day any more, but as long as guys have Huckabee have microphones, they can't stop insulting libertarians. [And libertarians can't stop insulting them, either, to be fair.] We aren't going to paper over the past when there really isn't a day that goes by without someone like Huckabee saying, "Fuck libertarians," or someone like Michael Gerson saying, "Libertarians are just like truthers and neonazis" or words to that effect. And that hits the reset button anew on the memory clock every day.
To the extent that a temporary alliance with Huckabee and his ilk is useful, we should pursue it. Holding grudges in politics is irrational.
Now, I think it's questionable how trustworthy Huckabee and others would be in an alliance. THAT is a valid concern, but the fact that he insulted libertarians is a silly reason to make an enemy out of him.
Does not follow. And if you're only willing to ally with libertarians, then enjoy watching the creep of statism increase to a gallop as you sit on the sidelines shaking your head with your fellow half-percenters.
Now, I think it's questionable how trustworthy Huckabee and others would be in an alliance. THAT is a valid concern, but the fact that he insulted libertarians is a silly reason to make an enemy out of him.
Well, I'm talking about trust.
John, our unofficial spokesman for the GOP establishment, gets angry at me every day because I won't let go of the past.
John wants me to trust that the GOP has learned its lesson, and that THIS TIME when GOP figures say they favor limited government, I should believe them, despite their many lies in the past.
And I'm saying that I won't forget the past as long as fresh abuse is heaped on the principles of small government, and those who sincerely advocate for them, every day.
It is the fact that Huckabee and figures like him can't help themselves, and can't suppress the urge to insult libertarians, that exposes the fact that they will be untrustworthy allies. It's really the same issue. Because I am convinced that the insults reflect their true selves, and the olive branches are mere calculation.
I hate Huckabee more than you do. I don't mind if you despise him and refuse to vote for him. Hell, I am doing the same. It is that you think everyone ever associated with the Republicans is no different than Huckabee.
I don't think it's a coincidence that every major free market thinker in the last century has been a libertarian.
Hayley, a libertarian often known even more for his economic thought than politician thought.
Mises, extreme libertarian
Ayn Rand was militantly anti-christian
(And fell out with Rothbard after she started attacking his wife for being an episcopalian)
Milton Friedman, libertarian
to exclude libertarians from the party is to exclude the very heart and source of free market thought, and to a large extent, thought about individual freedom itself.
This is a decent response. However, I dunno if, come primary time in 2012, people will care much.
One other flaw in this theory is that Obama won in the general election. That is, of the two candidates, it was always clear that Obama would involve the state in rescuing the economy more than McCain would (even if McCain would do a lot more than libertarians would want). If that was the #1 issue, McCain should have won.
I think McCain threw away whatever tiny chance he had to win when he supported TARP. If he had railed against it, a la Bunning, he MIGHT have had a chance to turn things around the last few weeks.
As it was, there wasnt a clear cut difference between the two of them on the economy.
If McCain were President the Congressional GOP would be hypnotized as they were with Bush and the Tea Partiers would either have already formed a new party or they would be driving 18 wheelers into Federal Reserve buildings. Or both.
And in 2008, Ron Paul only got about 10% of the CPAC vote. This year had more attendees and more voters, and a LOWER proportion of students, than any other.
and Ron Paul won.
Is it impossible to consider that MAYBE his message is just more popular in this economic climate? and that people who were turned off by the endless war on terror and social issues aren't willing to let the religious right dominate the conversation when we are in very obvious financial trouble?
Some of my less libertarian friends who were there, who are even active in Tea Party events, are spinning that "they don't even know anyone who voted and they have talked to 20 of their friends who were there," "I couldn't vote the line was too long only a student could stand there that long," "the voting booth was hidden," and other such whines.
I didn't vote either and I would have voted for Ron Paul! I passed by the booth in a hurry and thought I'd do it the next day (even though there was NO line and the booth was prominently at the entrance to the exhibitor's hall) but never got round to it.
You are taking a static view and not attending to actual phenomena in reality. Ron Paul has created a growing PAC and student group network, recruited a lot of candidates for Congress and Governorships, a few of whom are going to win at least their GOP primaries, and many of whom are much higher in polls already than Paul was during the 2008-2009 primaries.
In addition, he went from having no booth, a few dozen supporters, and one speaking event at the 2008 CPAC to having a booth 7 tables long (the largest one), apparently over 1,000 supporters and many panels with his associates (Judge Napolitano, "Meltdown" author Tom Woods, lawyer Bruce Fein, New Mexico Governor Gary Johnson).
Paulistas/libertarians may be a minority in the GOP, conservative movement, Tea Parties, etc. But they are three or four times as big as they were two years ago and they are radicalizing others.
David Ratowitz (a true libertarian who campaigned for RP and has appeared on freedomwatch) already won his in Illinois. The seat is a long shot, but hey.
fuck that fat tub Huckabee. the republicans can either embrace a return to their roots of constitutionalism and limited government and their supporters or they can maintain the status quo and see their power slip away. the GOP always talks about a big tent, but what people like Huckabee really mean is a tent thats not "too big" to include libertarians and real conservatives. go ahead GOP, push the libertarians, constitutional conservatives, and true tea partiers out; it will just ensure your losses in 2012.
No they mean what the Democraps have meant about inclusion of gay people: we want your money and votes. Otherwise we want you to S-T-F up.
I was at the 2000 Demwit Gore nominating convention in Los Angeles, whose campaign was run by closeted-on-TV/out in her own neighborhood lesbian Donna Brazile. Whenever the TV cameras were aimed at the conventioneers, party apparatchiks went round and ordered everyone to hide the rainbow flags and pink triangles, lest they scare the voters in fly over country.
And every day we see Demwit lesbian and gay Clinton appointees, lobbyists and campaign managers, from Richard Socarides to Donna Brazile to Hillary Rosen on TV, but they never mention their sexuality, partners, etc., like the heterosexuals do.
I think it scares a lot of people to think that Ron Paul might be best positioned to benefit from all the dissatisfaction with our government.
At least I find it frightening.
I'd hate to think libertarianism would become associated with a pandering politician, and he panders to his base when pandering wouldn't make any difference. The last thing I want to see libertarianism associated with is a Panderer in Chief.
I suppose he's better than the other options, but that isn't saying much.
Speaking of Dahmer, Amy Bishop is not the first deranged mass murdering Democrat. John Wayne Gacy was a Demwit precinct captain and had an audience with First Lady Rosalyn Carter (from wiki):
Gacy became active in Chicago's Democratic Party, first volunteering to clean the party offices.[35] In 1975 and 1976, he served on the Norwood Park Township street lighting committee.[37] He eventually earned the title of precinct captain.[5] In this capacity, he met and was photographed with First Lady Rosalynn Carter, who was in town for the annual Polish Constitution Day Parade, held on May 6, 1978.[38] Gacy was directing the parade that year, for the third year in a row. Carter posed for pictures with Gacy and autographed the photo "To John Gacy. Best Wishes. Rosalynn Carter". In the picture, Gacy is wearing an "S" pin, indicating a person who has received special clearance by the United States Secret Service.[39] During the search of Gacy's house after his arrest, this photo caused a major embarrassment to the Secret Service.[40]
Oh, there were plenty of deranged, mass murdering democrats before Gacy. Just look at the south during reconstruction, when the KKK was the terrorist wing of their party.
Did someone ask for a deranged, mass-murdering Democrat? I wasted hundreds of thousands of American lives in Europe just to set the stage for World War Two!
He's not very f*ckable though, like the Palins, Romneys, Browns, Bachmans, Ryans, Flakes, Thunes, Rubios, or Blackburns. He is more of the Grayson-McCaskill-Frank piecow party.
We aren't going to paper over the past when there really isn't a day that goes by without someone like Huckabee saying, "Fuck libertarians," or someone like Michael Gerson saying, "Libertarians are just like truthers and neonazis" or words to that effect. And that hits the reset button anew on the memory clock every day.
It was all the libertarians' fault that Obama won; they torpedoed McCain with all that crazy "small government" talk, and their damned rEVOLution silliness.
You can't have freedom in 9/12 America; that would means the terrorists have won!
1) GWB
2) He voted for the TARP bill
3) He was a useless apparatchik for his entire career in the senate.
4) He's an idiot.
5) He's a cheating gigolo who dumped his sick wife for a rich bimbo.
6) His greatest achievement in life was getting shot down.
The situation you're describing is a "lack of trust" situation. I'm not saying we should shack up with conservative socialists like Huck, just that if there arises an opportunity for a mutually beneficial alliance, we shouldn't foreclose that possibility by pissing and moaning about who called who names.
You guys are basking in newfound relevance due to the Dems' health care quagmire, despite the fact that it was absolutely not anything remotely resembling libertarianism that brought that bill down -- it was Palin's "death panels" idiocy together with seniors being afraid of losing Medicare benefits. Palin and Medicare bloodsuckers are pretty far off the libertarian reservation, but you see how useful to libertarian goals they were, do you not?
I don't understand the personal attacks and hatred expressed by some in these blogs. While this kind of name calling is not unique to Reason forums, it hardly reflects the name of this site. Telling others to "shut up" is not representative of a Libertarian philosophy.
I am interested in John's attempt to separate 'cultural' issues from other issues.
'That is exactly who he is. And he is 10 years too late. No one cares about cultural issues right now. The economy and stopping Obama from burning down the country is a little more important than worrying about gay marriage.'
Do you classify abortion as a cultural issue? It's been *big* factor in slowing up the Obama health-care plan, and could continue to do so.
As for the public not caring about gay marriage, they sure seem to care enough to vote against it when it's on the ballot. In states where the issue is kept off the ballot, it's kept off for fear the voters will care enough to forbid it.
Damn, nobody is going to make a reference to this?:
"Or put it another way: Stack's crime is as compelling an indictment of the left or the right as it is an indictment of the most dangerous people in our society: bass players."
-Tim Cavanaugh
I have been collecting videos of everything that happened at CPAC from sources from CNN to blogger Richard Sincere to the Breitbart sites at: http://teapartiers.blogspot.com
I have been collecting you tubes videos of everything that happened at CPAC from sources from CNN to blogger Richard Sincere to the Breitbart sites at: http://www.teapartiers.blogspot.com
I dont know why any sane Libertarian would even suggest working with the Christian Right. As soon as they get back in power we will be left holding the bag as usual.
Huckabee is a McCain Republican, quick to compromise with the left for peace which is a McCain, Graham trademark. He is a nice guy, and nice guys come in last as libertarians are concerned. claysamerica.com
There are some major flaws with that story. First, nowhere in the Political article (referenced) does Huckabee imply that the GOP is taking its last breath. Nor does he begrudge Libertarian activists [not Libertarian-leaning GOP, but ultra-die-hard-Libertarian] exercising their rights to assemply and free-speech.
He DOES, however, state that the Tea Party movement has dwarfed C-PAC in political significance (a point hard to argue!), and that C-PAC has, at least among GOP circles, lost some credibility.
Despite the title of the article AND the video, Huckabee was very gracious and even stated that the C-PAC activists were representative of the mood of the country, like the Tea Party. In fact, Geraldo attempts REPEATEDLY to elicit a harsh response from Huckabee, using terms as "irrelevant" and "corrupt." Huck doesn't stoop to name-calling, however...and nowhere does he "rip" or even IMO "attack" C-PAC.
The Benedict Arnold of Today's Tea Party Movement .... The GOP dissed libertarians in 2006 and 2008 and look where that got ... http://destinationsoftwareinc.com
Alternative alt text: The slimming effects of vertical stripes.
The elbow patches undo all of that.
That family is missing a few chromosomes. This guy loves to pass laws on what he finds offensive, he should start with outlawing Huckabee family photographs, I find them way offensive.
CPAC has becoming increasingly more libertarian and less Republican over the last years
He apparently is saying this like it's a, you know, "bad" thing.
Well it's either his ilk or us. No tent can be large enough to cover us both.
But I don't see it, the rent seekers are still running the GOP, and the libertarians are still their bitch.
I don't know what he means by less republican. Barry Goldwater is considered the father of modern conservatism, though he often called himself an old liberal. He was dismayed when the fundies took over.
He spent the weekend playing kiss kiss with Michelle Obama you know.
I want to see Fingers and the Huckster cut heads on bass.
Can't wait for the Michelle Obama interview.
Saw part of it. Huck admitted he had gone off the weight-reduction wagon but promised to get back on it. Mrs. O said, "Next time you come in shirtless." Huck should have replied but didn't, "I will if you will." A moment lost forever.
I saw that clip too (The O'Reilly Factor?). I think she is very charming and like most first ladies, an unfair target of the opposition.
She has teeth like a rodent.
Most First Ladies are not "..an unfair target of the opposition".
I'll remind you that she is the one declaring "for the first time in my adult life I am proud of my country"; who took a non-existent $300k/yr job in a Chicago hospital after her husband got an influential job; who disrespects the position of First Lady by traveling in Marine One dressed like some hip-hopper on the corner. But with your trashy screen name, I wouldn't expect you to understand that, much less agree.
My point was all the first ladies receive undue criticism and it across the board. They are in a solitary and unique position that requires them to respond delicately. I have sympathy for all of them. I have no interest in explaining my acronym to you. Get your mind out of the gutter.
Jackie Kennedy: too many designer labels
Lady bird Johnson: too many political questions over monopoly license issues
Pat Nixon : too much the political wife
Betty Ford: too independent
Rosalynn Carter: too much redefining of Office of the First Lady
Nancy Reagan too fashionable, china Dishes, choice of mastectomy
Barbara Bush: too outspoken
Hillary Clinton: too much ambition
Laura Bush: too careless over car accident
Is it just me or does the huckster look like kevin spacey?
He looks more like Gomer Pyle
That family tree was made out of ugly sticks.
Mike, care to direct us to a picture of yourself?
Are we honestly surprised that a Religious Rightie doesnt like Libertarians?
I like Libertarians. I disagree with them on abortion and drugs, but they are a lot better than democrats and communists.
Not all libertarians are pro-choice. Some are adamantly pro-life, though the state's rights position is common, and the position that Murray Rothbard took.
Ralph, G-d told me to tell you you don't have to spend eternity in Hades after all. You get to be in the nicest level of Purgatory.
What about gay people?
Somehow, I don't think a "more libertarian" CPAC is going to change the GOP from being a bunch of statist dickheads.
It's similar to the slimming effects from a Diet Coke? and 6 Whoppers?.
JW, that's ten Big Macs and a small Diet Coke.
Huckabee was afraid they would diss republicans who used state laws to prohibit smokers from doing so in their cars when children are aboard.
Shut the fuck up, Mike Huckabee.
Its funny that we havent seen him in months
Mike Huckabee complaining about a 'Libertarian' drift is less about the GOP in general and more about the faction Huckabee represents.
Huckabee was/is essentially the pure populist/culture warrior in the GOP field. His preferred method for delivering on those elements is classically 'Left'-style governance, dressed up under an on-steroids version of Bush the Younger's 'compassionate (Big Government) conservatism'. A popular 'Libertarian' drift cut's Huckabee out of the game, on the national stage.
That is exactly who he is. And he is 10 years too late. No one cares about cultural issues right now. The economy and stopping Obama from burning down the country is a little more important than worrying about gay marriage.
But that's the thing -- his economic positions are essentially identical to Obama's, which whether we like it or not are quite appealing to the vast majority of voters; yet he doesn't come off as a leftist because, duh, he's a Baptist preacher!
If only Huckabee were right. In the mean time, he needs to shut the fuck up. You can fight about social issues when you are too fat dumb and happy to have anything else to fight about. Right now things are just a bit too bad to be worrying about whatever dumb ass social crusade he is worried about these days.
Unfortunately according to the "logic" of many of the Statist Social Cons, gay marriage, atheism and whatever their bitch fight of the week is are the causes of America's ills.
But John, fat gay people are evil.
I thought Huckabee lost all the weight.
Yes - he's a social conservative who crusades against teh fat. To be fair, I don't know if he's really anti-gay, but as a so-con, it's kind of assumed.
A social conservative who crusades against fat people. Honestly, could you come up with a worse combination?
Hey, leave Andrew Sullivan out of this.
** struggles successfully against "+" urge **
That's a family that loves butter.
But since he lost eighty zillion pounds, he now wants the government to ban butter.
That's just a cover to get the butter seized in raids funneled directly to him.
He'll be fat, floating, and utterly insanely six months after the ban.
And the only cure, naturally, will be more butter.
Actually the only cure will be more cowbell.
Butter? I was thinking more pork. Mmmm, barbecue.
Ron Paul only has more young supporters than Huckabee if you don't measure them by the pound.
The ignorant hillbilly whackjob preacher* is working overtime to alienate this atheist libertarian. I would campaign for Obama's re-election if I thought the Huckster had a chance of gaining the Oval Office.
* ? 2008. All rights reserved.
+1
This message has been flagged for deletion, per the new rules against plus one-ing.
+2
He alienated this evangelical libertarian a long time ago.
If this is actually the case, could somebody please explain to me why Paul didn't win a single primary in 2008?
The reason is that, no, the Republican Party is not becoming libertarian. The few libertarians that exist tend to scream very loudly, but one needs the other type of volume to win elections (that is, sheer numbers over loudness).
Actually, as it turns out, you probably need both.
Libertarian thinkers and activists provided vital intellectual energy for the conservative movement, in the think tanks, the alternative media, in campaigns, in NGO's, etc.
And they were a small, but measurable and necessary, component of the GOP electoral coalition.
With the libertarians driven out, good luck rolling back Obama. Good luck keeping the movement going intellectually with Ramesh Ponnuru. Have fun with that.
You see, John? One reason I refuse to forget is this: Bush is out of power now, so there generally aren't fresh policy outrages every day any more, but as long as guys have Huckabee have microphones, they can't stop insulting libertarians. [And libertarians can't stop insulting them, either, to be fair.] We aren't going to paper over the past when there really isn't a day that goes by without someone like Huckabee saying, "Fuck libertarians," or someone like Michael Gerson saying, "Libertarians are just like truthers and neonazis" or words to that effect. And that hits the reset button anew on the memory clock every day.
I think Im better at holding a grudge than you. 🙂 I dont need daily reminders.
Every bit helps, robc. But you ain't even close to me when it comes to permanent ignorant hillbilly whackjob preacher animosity.
To the extent that a temporary alliance with Huckabee and his ilk is useful, we should pursue it. Holding grudges in politics is irrational.
Now, I think it's questionable how trustworthy Huckabee and others would be in an alliance. THAT is a valid concern, but the fact that he insulted libertarians is a silly reason to make an enemy out of him.
That is, if your libertarianism is directed at increasing liberty in this country, rather than satisfying some deep-seeded emotional need.
""That is, if your libertarianism is directed at increasing liberty in this country, ""
Huckabee is not pro-liberty. An alliance with him would not increase it.
Does not follow. And if you're only willing to ally with libertarians, then enjoy watching the creep of statism increase to a gallop as you sit on the sidelines shaking your head with your fellow half-percenters.
Which is the same thing that happens when libertarians ally. So whats the diff?
What area, anywhere, does Huckabee think we should have more freedom in? He's the fucking anti-libertarian. Fiscally liberal, Socially conservative.
Just because you're sick of teh gheys doesn't mean there's anything about Huckabee that's worthwhile. He's complete shit.
What exactly does not follow?
The expectation that a anti-liberty would be, anti-liberty?
I'd rather sit on the sideline with my fellow half-percenters than get behind someone who is only using me to get votes.
If you want to be a tool for those who will work against your beliefs, go for it.
Now, I think it's questionable how trustworthy Huckabee and others would be in an alliance. THAT is a valid concern, but the fact that he insulted libertarians is a silly reason to make an enemy out of him.
Well, I'm talking about trust.
John, our unofficial spokesman for the GOP establishment, gets angry at me every day because I won't let go of the past.
John wants me to trust that the GOP has learned its lesson, and that THIS TIME when GOP figures say they favor limited government, I should believe them, despite their many lies in the past.
And I'm saying that I won't forget the past as long as fresh abuse is heaped on the principles of small government, and those who sincerely advocate for them, every day.
It is the fact that Huckabee and figures like him can't help themselves, and can't suppress the urge to insult libertarians, that exposes the fact that they will be untrustworthy allies. It's really the same issue. Because I am convinced that the insults reflect their true selves, and the olive branches are mere calculation.
That doesn't justify irredeemable enmity; it justifies watchful alliance. Better to keep him on a short leash than to burn bridges.
Like this?
Fluffy,
I hate Huckabee more than you do. I don't mind if you despise him and refuse to vote for him. Hell, I am doing the same. It is that you think everyone ever associated with the Republicans is no different than Huckabee.
It's not a matter of personal pique at being insulted. Hell, I've been insulted by experts.
But the insults are indicators of his basic attitude toward libertarians. It makes it very difficult to trust him, even briefly.
Very good point.
I don't think it's a coincidence that every major free market thinker in the last century has been a libertarian.
Hayley, a libertarian often known even more for his economic thought than politician thought.
Mises, extreme libertarian
Ayn Rand was militantly anti-christian
(And fell out with Rothbard after she started attacking his wife for being an episcopalian)
Milton Friedman, libertarian
to exclude libertarians from the party is to exclude the very heart and source of free market thought, and to a large extent, thought about individual freedom itself.
Because the TARP and bailouts came after the primaries.
This is a decent response. However, I dunno if, come primary time in 2012, people will care much.
One other flaw in this theory is that Obama won in the general election. That is, of the two candidates, it was always clear that Obama would involve the state in rescuing the economy more than McCain would (even if McCain would do a lot more than libertarians would want). If that was the #1 issue, McCain should have won.
I think McCain threw away whatever tiny chance he had to win when he supported TARP. If he had railed against it, a la Bunning, he MIGHT have had a chance to turn things around the last few weeks.
As it was, there wasnt a clear cut difference between the two of them on the economy.
I am not at all convinced that McCain would have involved the state less in the economy.
And it was pretty clear that if you favored a conservative foreign policy, you weren't going to vote for McCain.
If McCain were President the Congressional GOP would be hypnotized as they were with Bush and the Tea Partiers would either have already formed a new party or they would be driving 18 wheelers into Federal Reserve buildings. Or both.
And in 2008, Ron Paul only got about 10% of the CPAC vote. This year had more attendees and more voters, and a LOWER proportion of students, than any other.
and Ron Paul won.
Is it impossible to consider that MAYBE his message is just more popular in this economic climate? and that people who were turned off by the endless war on terror and social issues aren't willing to let the religious right dominate the conversation when we are in very obvious financial trouble?
Some of my less libertarian friends who were there, who are even active in Tea Party events, are spinning that "they don't even know anyone who voted and they have talked to 20 of their friends who were there," "I couldn't vote the line was too long only a student could stand there that long," "the voting booth was hidden," and other such whines.
I didn't vote either and I would have voted for Ron Paul! I passed by the booth in a hurry and thought I'd do it the next day (even though there was NO line and the booth was prominently at the entrance to the exhibitor's hall) but never got round to it.
You are taking a static view and not attending to actual phenomena in reality. Ron Paul has created a growing PAC and student group network, recruited a lot of candidates for Congress and Governorships, a few of whom are going to win at least their GOP primaries, and many of whom are much higher in polls already than Paul was during the 2008-2009 primaries.
In addition, he went from having no booth, a few dozen supporters, and one speaking event at the 2008 CPAC to having a booth 7 tables long (the largest one), apparently over 1,000 supporters and many panels with his associates (Judge Napolitano, "Meltdown" author Tom Woods, lawyer Bruce Fein, New Mexico Governor Gary Johnson).
Paulistas/libertarians may be a minority in the GOP, conservative movement, Tea Parties, etc. But they are three or four times as big as they were two years ago and they are radicalizing others.
Sweet dreams, mo-fos!
David Ratowitz (a true libertarian who campaigned for RP and has appeared on freedomwatch) already won his in Illinois. The seat is a long shot, but hey.
He's just setting up the standard GOP excuse for lost elections: "we woulda won except for those damn libertarians stealing our votes".
DERP! They take our Jobzzz!
Bass-slapping talkshow host
When I read that I thought, "What is he doing with these fish?" Stupid homonyms.
"He's balding... spiritually."
Brock: Dean, whad'ya do, shave with a hatchet?
Dean: I used the razor with the big pink handle.
Dr. Venture: That's my Daisy! I... use that one for my head.
Hank: I thought God shaved your head.
Dr. Venture: He does, but he leaves the sides, Mister Wisenheimer.
I need a new Fleshlight to name Trianna.
Fat Bastard. He wants to eat my children.
Oh good Christ that read fucking hilariously!
Bravo on that one.
+1
So, is it true that people who dress their families in matching outfits are highly successful despite the repeated beatings in the schoolyard?
fuck that fat tub Huckabee. the republicans can either embrace a return to their roots of constitutionalism and limited government and their supporters or they can maintain the status quo and see their power slip away. the GOP always talks about a big tent, but what people like Huckabee really mean is a tent thats not "too big" to include libertarians and real conservatives. go ahead GOP, push the libertarians, constitutional conservatives, and true tea partiers out; it will just ensure your losses in 2012.
No they mean what the Democraps have meant about inclusion of gay people: we want your money and votes. Otherwise we want you to S-T-F up.
I was at the 2000 Demwit Gore nominating convention in Los Angeles, whose campaign was run by closeted-on-TV/out in her own neighborhood lesbian Donna Brazile. Whenever the TV cameras were aimed at the conventioneers, party apparatchiks went round and ordered everyone to hide the rainbow flags and pink triangles, lest they scare the voters in fly over country.
And every day we see Demwit lesbian and gay Clinton appointees, lobbyists and campaign managers, from Richard Socarides to Donna Brazile to Hillary Rosen on TV, but they never mention their sexuality, partners, etc., like the heterosexuals do.
the republicans can either embrace a return to their roots of constitutionalism and limited government
Those aren't the party's roots. They're a position that the party adopted for a while during the Roosevelt dictatorship.
-jcr
That poor dog. He doesn't deserve it.
I mean the dog, not the hillbilly.
I think they killed him quickly before they fired up the wok. There was little suffering.
I think it scares a lot of people to think that Ron Paul might be best positioned to benefit from all the dissatisfaction with our government.
At least I find it frightening.
I'd hate to think libertarianism would become associated with a pandering politician, and he panders to his base when pandering wouldn't make any difference. The last thing I want to see libertarianism associated with is a Panderer in Chief.
I suppose he's better than the other options, but that isn't saying much.
But I thought Conservatives didnt Pander, according to them Pandering is only when you talk to minorities. Anything else is "Talking to Americans"
I suppose he's better than the other options,
In politics, thats how you identify who you will support.
I like Huckabee. He's very smart as a speaker and seems like such a genuine nice guy...
So is my neighbor. 🙂 I wouldn;t want him to have any say over anything resembling social or fiscal policy however.
So was Jeffrey Dahmer.
Speaking of Dahmer, Amy Bishop is not the first deranged mass murdering Democrat. John Wayne Gacy was a Demwit precinct captain and had an audience with First Lady Rosalyn Carter (from wiki):
Gacy became active in Chicago's Democratic Party, first volunteering to clean the party offices.[35] In 1975 and 1976, he served on the Norwood Park Township street lighting committee.[37] He eventually earned the title of precinct captain.[5] In this capacity, he met and was photographed with First Lady Rosalynn Carter, who was in town for the annual Polish Constitution Day Parade, held on May 6, 1978.[38] Gacy was directing the parade that year, for the third year in a row. Carter posed for pictures with Gacy and autographed the photo "To John Gacy. Best Wishes. Rosalynn Carter". In the picture, Gacy is wearing an "S" pin, indicating a person who has received special clearance by the United States Secret Service.[39] During the search of Gacy's house after his arrest, this photo caused a major embarrassment to the Secret Service.[40]
Point?
I'll take "Back in my day everyone had a couple of dead gay guys in the crawl space" for $300, Alex.
Oh, there were plenty of deranged, mass murdering democrats before Gacy. Just look at the south during reconstruction, when the KKK was the terrorist wing of their party.
-jcr
Did someone ask for a deranged, mass-murdering Democrat? I wasted hundreds of thousands of American lives in Europe just to set the stage for World War Two!
Love,
Woody.
He's not very f*ckable though, like the Palins, Romneys, Browns, Bachmans, Ryans, Flakes, Thunes, Rubios, or Blackburns. He is more of the Grayson-McCaskill-Frank piecow party.
There's always Waxman if you're look for a Demo stud, Bruce...
We aren't going to paper over the past when there really isn't a day that goes by without someone like Huckabee saying, "Fuck libertarians," or someone like Michael Gerson saying, "Libertarians are just like truthers and neonazis" or words to that effect. And that hits the reset button anew on the memory clock every day.
It was all the libertarians' fault that Obama won; they torpedoed McCain with all that crazy "small government" talk, and their damned rEVOLution silliness.
You can't have freedom in 9/12 America; that would means the terrorists have won!
Can Huckabee's home be reached by plane?
The reasons why McCain lost:
1) GWB
2) He voted for the TARP bill
3) He was a useless apparatchik for his entire career in the senate.
4) He's an idiot.
5) He's a cheating gigolo who dumped his sick wife for a rich bimbo.
6) His greatest achievement in life was getting shot down.
-jcr
Holding grudges in politics is irrational.
"C'mon. Honey, let me in. You know I love you. I only hit you because I love you so much. I wouldn't hit you if I didn't care."
The situation you're describing is a "lack of trust" situation. I'm not saying we should shack up with conservative socialists like Huck, just that if there arises an opportunity for a mutually beneficial alliance, we shouldn't foreclose that possibility by pissing and moaning about who called who names.
You guys are basking in newfound relevance due to the Dems' health care quagmire, despite the fact that it was absolutely not anything remotely resembling libertarianism that brought that bill down -- it was Palin's "death panels" idiocy together with seniors being afraid of losing Medicare benefits. Palin and Medicare bloodsuckers are pretty far off the libertarian reservation, but you see how useful to libertarian goals they were, do you not?
And the doggy sez:
"HALP! She's STRANGLIN' MEEEEE!!"
Wow, cute kids!!!
I don't understand the personal attacks and hatred expressed by some in these blogs. While this kind of name calling is not unique to Reason forums, it hardly reflects the name of this site. Telling others to "shut up" is not representative of a Libertarian philosophy.
Given that this is just another way of saying "For a site called Reason", I'm quoting rule #3 of the Reason drinking game and taking a shot.
I think referencing the drinking game should trigger a drink.
Shut the fuck up, newfag.
+999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999
I am interested in John's attempt to separate 'cultural' issues from other issues.
'That is exactly who he is. And he is 10 years too late. No one cares about cultural issues right now. The economy and stopping Obama from burning down the country is a little more important than worrying about gay marriage.'
Do you classify abortion as a cultural issue? It's been *big* factor in slowing up the Obama health-care plan, and could continue to do so.
As for the public not caring about gay marriage, they sure seem to care enough to vote against it when it's on the ballot. In states where the issue is kept off the ballot, it's kept off for fear the voters will care enough to forbid it.
Damn, nobody is going to make a reference to this?:
"Or put it another way: Stack's crime is as compelling an indictment of the left or the right as it is an indictment of the most dangerous people in our society: bass players."
-Tim Cavanaugh
http://reason.com/blog/2010/02.....ndrew-jose
I sure do like this Mike Huckabee.... but don't mind me, let me let you get back to firing away at him.
Are those the uniforms we will all have to wear after Huckabee gets elected?
Photographer: "This is as far back as I can go. OK, everyone say cheese."
Huck: "Right everyone. Just say cheese. (snicker)
Everyone: "CHEESEBURGER! Hahahahahahaa (sigh)"
If you analyze it, I believe the very heart and soul of conservatism is libertarianism.
I have been collecting videos of everything that happened at CPAC from sources from CNN to blogger Richard Sincere to the Breitbart sites at: http://teapartiers.blogspot.com
I have been collecting you tubes videos of everything that happened at CPAC from sources from CNN to blogger Richard Sincere to the Breitbart sites at: http://www.teapartiers.blogspot.com
Huckstabee.
I dont know why any sane Libertarian would even suggest working with the Christian Right. As soon as they get back in power we will be left holding the bag as usual.
Huckabee is a McCain Republican, quick to compromise with the left for peace which is a McCain, Graham trademark. He is a nice guy, and nice guys come in last as libertarians are concerned. claysamerica.com
I'm sorry, Gov. Mike. But, maybe you can point to which letter in "CPAC" stands for "Republican"?
There are some major flaws with that story. First, nowhere in the Political article (referenced) does Huckabee imply that the GOP is taking its last breath. Nor does he begrudge Libertarian activists [not Libertarian-leaning GOP, but ultra-die-hard-Libertarian] exercising their rights to assemply and free-speech.
He DOES, however, state that the Tea Party movement has dwarfed C-PAC in political significance (a point hard to argue!), and that C-PAC has, at least among GOP circles, lost some credibility.
Despite the title of the article AND the video, Huckabee was very gracious and even stated that the C-PAC activists were representative of the mood of the country, like the Tea Party. In fact, Geraldo attempts REPEATEDLY to elicit a harsh response from Huckabee, using terms as "irrelevant" and "corrupt." Huck doesn't stoop to name-calling, however...and nowhere does he "rip" or even IMO "attack" C-PAC.
Good new audio commentary on Ron Paul, Dick Cheney, and CPAC here:
http://www.freespeechmonster.com/
Huckabee's running in 2012 because the last election proved that a glib asshole with goofy-sounding name can be elected in this country.
-jcr
The Benedict Arnold of Today's Tea Party Movement .... The GOP dissed libertarians in 2006 and 2008 and look where that got ...
http://destinationsoftwareinc.com
thanks