Shall I Sell Out to You or Sell You Out?

Jesse Walker | 1.24.2010 9:15 PM

At this point I'm pretty tired of essays by conservatives laying out what annoys them about the contemporary conservative movement. But Michael Brendan Dougherty's smart and funny tirade in The Awl is much better than the typical specimen of the genre.

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ransom147 15 years ago

no excerpt? i really have to go read it?
1. Libertarian self-esteem dept 15 years ago
  
  Don't. I nearly slit my wrists halfway through.
  1. SIV 15 years ago
    
    as the kids say:
    
    +1
  2. cmontgom 15 years ago
    
    it was pretty funny to me..
    
    and since you're obviously someone with problems completing things?
    
    I'll stick with my version.
    
    😉
    1. Libertarian self-esteem dept 15 years ago
      
      Korean literature. Now I have to impale myself with a wooden stake. No, I am not a vampire but I am not taking any chances.
Psychologist 15 years ago

I'll give the conservative movement credit for one thing: they're better than the Dems/liberals at obstructing the idiotic goals of the other side.

Conservatives: killed HillaryCare, Obamacare, and Waxman-Markey (probably).

Dems: enabled USA Patriot Act, DOMA, Afghanistan, Iraq, etc.
1. Libertarian self-esteem dept 15 years ago
  
  This topic bores me but I would be interested in your opinion on libertarians. Do you think they showed early symptoms of not caring and sharing in kindergarten.
  1. Psychologist 15 years ago
    
    Meh. Maybe. The only research I recall seeing on the subject was that conservatives are usually more conscientious and agreeable (nicer) than liberals. Another piece of research I implied that libertarians have the psychological profile of an "extreme liberal". More open minded than liberals and also less concientious and agreeable. Libertarians also have stronger self-efficacy ratings.
    1. Libertarian self-esteem dept 15 years ago
      
      Psychologist, do you a fucking clown in the room to know this was a joke.
      1. Libelous 15 years ago
        
        No he doesn't a fucking clown in the room.
        
        Libertarian self-esteem dept 15 years ago
        
        Libelous, a little sensitive. Lay down and tell me all about it.
  2. bleephole 15 years ago
    
    @Libertarian self-esteem dept
    
    "Do you think they showed early symptoms of not caring and sharing in kindergarten."
    
    Yes, yes - same troll-bate you always have to offer. Libertarians hate everyone, don't care about children, yadda, yadda, yadda, yadda.
    1. RCTL 15 years ago
      
      "Do you think they showed early symptoms of not caring and sharing in kindergarten."
      
      Statists want children to be good little robots and serve the state.
      1. Libertarian self-esteem dept 15 years ago
        
        bleephole,RCTL, I think I would lock you in a room for a death match but I have a felling the injuries would be self-inflicted.
        
        bleephole 15 years ago
        
        @Libertarian self-esteem dept
        
        Since you are RCTL, that would be true in your case.
2. Hazel Meade 15 years ago
  
  Very valid point.
  Of course the conservatives also enabled the prescription drug benefit, among other "compassionate conservative" policies. It might be that they are just good at blocking whatever the Democrats want to do, regardless of the relative merits.
  1. Libertarian self-esteem dept 15 years ago
    
    Interesting that you should show up. I have always wondered how you could be a libertarian and have a vagina at the same time?
    1. The Libertarian Guy 15 years ago
      
      What ho, we have a new idiot aboard. Or are you a retread of past idiots? Perhaps crayon with a sense of sentence structure? Or Morris with a dour(er) attitude?
      
      Either way... go fuck yourself, please.
      1. Libertarian self-esteem dept 15 years ago
        
        TLG, I am ordering you to have more fun.
        
        The Libertarian Guy 15 years ago
        
        It's not your place to order anyone, idiot.
        
        Libertarian self-esteem dept 15 years ago
        
        I meant demand. Resistance is futile.
  2. MJ 15 years ago
    
    I seem to recall the conservatives were not terribly happy with Bush for pushing that entitlement and were never happy with Bush's marketing himself as a "compassionate conservative" as opposed to those conservatives who were presumably uncompassionate. A lot of conservatives thought Bush was a squish that they were settling for, but the alternatives (McCain) were worse.
    1. wackyjack 15 years ago
      
      Every time Bush's name gets thrown around as a proxy for Republican or conservative, I shudder. Seriously, the alternative in '00 was McCain. And the worse alternative was Gore (before he became the charismatic leader we know today). No one was going to challenge in '04. So in reality, McCain has screwed the Republican Party for well over the past ten years.
3. BG 15 years ago
  
  I'll give the conservative movement credit for one thing: they're better than the Dems/liberals at obstructing the idiotic goals of the other side.
  
  Conservatives: killed HillaryCare, Obamacare, and Waxman-Markey (probably).
  
  Dems: enabled USA Patriot Act, DOMA, Afghanistan, Iraq, etc.
  
  The invasion of Afghanistan was (and still is) a just war of self-defense. Also the democrats were divided on the Authorization for the Use of Force in Iraq - with a majority of them voting against it in the House.
  
  You have a point on the Patriot Act though, and Clinton did sign DOMA (assuming you mean the federal Defense of Marriage Act).
  1. what 15 years ago
    
    just war of self-defense? how many Afghanis flew those planes into those buildings?
    
    it may have started as a "get dem terrist" war, but now it's a full-blown nation building fuckup. again.
    1. MJ 15 years ago
      
      The Afghan governmnet was providing support and a safe base of operations to Al Queada. The war was against the Afghan government, not individual Afghanis.
    2. BG 15 years ago
      
      just war of self-defense? how many Afghanis flew those planes into those buildings?
      
      it may have started as a "get dem terrist" war, but now it's a full-blown nation building fuckup. again.
      
      MJ made one of my main points already, about the Taliban giving safe harbor and protection to Al-Qaeda.
      
      Also whatever complaints one may have about "nation building" in Afghanistan, the US has a direct interest preserving the credibility of its deterrence by ensuring that Mullah Omar, and the core leadership faction of the Taliban, don't regain power (i.e. tin pot theocracies can't fuck with us like that and stay in power to brag about it).
Johnny Whtmore 15 years ago

Wow, I must admit those are some really good questions!

Jess
http://www.total-anonymity.de.tc
Jeffersonian 15 years ago

GOP == Conservatism?

Fail.
1. SIV 15 years ago
  
  +1
  
  I'm handin'these out like candy.Cheaper than actually commenting on my own.
  1. Libertarian self-esteem dept 15 years ago
    
    Thanks. Now I feel like I'm on a team who received a trophy for showing up.
  2. hmm 15 years ago
    
    You better slow down with those +1's or you're going to blow them all in one place.
    1. Ebeneezer Scrooge 15 years ago
      
      -8
      
      I'm really fed up with the fact that this universe is bloated with +1's. I am going to rebalance the universe.
      
      There is only one of me. I must make each hit count for a lot.
      1. hmm 15 years ago
        
        Oh ya?
        
        -?-1
        
        Take that!!
        
        Ebeneezer Scrooge 15 years ago
        
        ewww, them's fightin' words.
        
        Just wait 'til I figure out how to put greek symbols and equations into this thing.....
        
        Libertarian self-esteem dept 15 years ago
        
        Stick with geek symbols.
Johnny Longtorso 15 years ago

I'm going to take my cue from anon-bot and start posting generic, zen-like comments at random.

Go Colts!!!!
1. Libertarian self-esteem dept 15 years ago
  
  The wind blew me this way.
  1. Butts Wagner 15 years ago
    
    LOL!!! That's so true!!! LOL!!!
    1. Libertarian self-esteem dept 15 years ago
      
      It's a quote from a kid that would always get into trouble on the other side of town and his big brother finally asked why the hell do you get in fucking trouble all the way over here? I loved his answer.
EscapedWestOfTheBigMuddy 15 years ago

This topic bores me but I would be interested in your opinion on libertarians. Do you think they showed early symptoms of not caring and sharing in kindergarten.

Rather more likely that somewhere along the way they had an encounter (or several encounters) with Author-i-TAH that taught them that those nominally in charge were often ill-informed, biased, under-endowed on the thinking front, or just as vulnerable to human failings as the rest of us. In other words, in no way qualified to be in charge nor deserving of special respect.

Not that I'm bitter or anything.
1. Libertarian self-esteem dept 15 years ago
  
  "an encounter (or several encounters)" Sounds interesting 😉
  1. EscapedWestOfTheBigMuddy 15 years ago
    
    ::tries for a enigmatic smile::
    
    You'll never know.
    1. Libertarian self-esteem dept 15 years ago
      
      "I'm bitter" was the clue.
  2. The Libertarian Guy 15 years ago
    
    Quote yourself from above:
    
    This topic bores me
    
    Which is it?
    1. Libertarian self-esteem dept 15 years ago
      
      Which is what?
2. anonymous 15 years ago
  
  Can't speak for anyone else, but it certainly was a major factor in my case.
  1. Libertarian self-esteem dept 15 years ago
    
    Do tell.
hmm 15 years ago

I laughed, I cried, I sharted a lil' and now I have to go do laundry.

You cold have just stopped with this.

At this point I'm pretty tired of essays by conservatives laying out what annoys them about the contemporary conservative movement.
1. hmm 15 years ago
  
  Cold/could what's the difference.
  1. Libertarian self-esteem dept 15 years ago
    
    I recommend hot water to get that shart stain out.
juris imprudent 15 years ago

[sniff] Not even a passing denigration about the corrupting influence of libertarians? Can it truly be a screed (even a self-absorbed one) without that?
Almanian 15 years ago

I wasted minutes of my life reading that article. Shit. It's too late for me - we must run and tell the others!
1. Libertarian self-esteem dept 15 years ago
  
  Too late. You have come through the door to the Hotel Royale. http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/The_Royale_(episode)
Episiarch 15 years ago

The fact that this article was (relatively) smart is just one more indictment of the conservative movement. Irony, thou art cruel.
1. SIV 15 years ago
  
  -1
  This article was stupid as fuck.Eisenhower,Nixon,Bush as conservatives?Now every Republican is a conservative? Gerald Ford and Teddy Roosevelt those libertarian-leaning rightwing anarchists.
  1. wackyjack 15 years ago
    
    Except, unless you go all Glenbeckian about progressives, conservative has come to mean all republicans. That's the problem when the modern movement formed after a drunken orgy of anti-communism. A lot of people with one common goal can work together. Up to a point.
  2. anonymous 15 years ago
    
    Whether they were or weren't, they never would have made it into office without the support of conservatives, so conservatives are responsible for their policies.
2. MJ 15 years ago
  
  What was "smart" about this column? 'Cause I just do not see it.
KingTaco 15 years ago

Meh. A somewhat self-centered 20-something makes an argument that politics is ugly and disappointing. The screeching sound you hear is the sound of a thousand press's coming to a halt with that bolt of originality.

On one hand what he writes is accurate, but on the other it's the exact same sentiment(s) people have felt/been expressing for recorded history. They just don't feel sufficiently self-important to assume their disappointment in politics is news-worthy.

If Michael Brendan Dougherty starts his own political party that rises to power and performs better than either the GOP or the Democrats, he's got my respect. If not he's just another guy not pleased with the realities of party politics, and an ego swollen enough to think that's an original observation. Hey, maybe he can be a libertarian?
1. Psychologist 15 years ago
  
  Yeah.
  1. Libertarian self-esteem dept 15 years ago
    
    You "yeah" yourself? Now wonder psychiatry takes so many years.
2. MJ 15 years ago
  
  If he finds this sort of thing intolerable:
  
  "First, you're obsessed with yourself. You try everything in the culture?The Incredibles, Wal-Mart, Crocs?and you ask: Is it conservative? This makes us look like creep socialists from the 1930s, debating endlessly about whether something is sufficiently proletariat."
  
  I don't think he can a libertarian.
Warty 15 years ago

Newtroll here must be one of the regulars. As always, I blame Neilsar.
1. Libertarian self-esteem dept 15 years ago
  
  Warty, How do we not know you are not the troll?
  1. Episiarch 15 years ago
    
    Warty trolls under the handle "Tony".
    1. Libertarian self-esteem dept 15 years ago
      
      and Episiarch
hmm 15 years ago

We are all fucked.

http://scienceblogs.com/erupti....._yello.php
1. Libertarian self-esteem dept 15 years ago
  
  Stop erupting my fun
  1. hmm 15 years ago
    
    is that a euphemism?
    1. Libertarian self-esteem dept 15 years ago
      
      No, it is a u fun is m.
Billy Tell 15 years ago

It's like I told my ex-wife....ssssh, you kinda hold your hand over her mouth...I mean, um, what?
Libertarian self-esteem dept 15 years ago

Boring me
1. Billy Tell 15 years ago
  
  Then you're not my ex-wife and the lack of DNA will prove it
  1. The Man 15 years ago
    
    My ex-wife didn't have DNA either. I didn't find that out until it was too late, much too late...
    1. Libertarian self-esteem dept 15 years ago
      
      What? an animal doesn't have DNA?
      1. The Man 15 years ago
        
        Worse
        
        Libertarian self-esteem dept 15 years ago
        
        Worse than human, worse than an animal, what is worse?
Libertarian self-esteem dept 15 years ago

I didn't know you could get DNA from plastic dolls? Oh, you mean your DNA.
Charles Barkley 15 years ago

You can get a hell of a rug burn from a plastic doll...um, I mean One can get a hell of a plastic doll burn, um, you free tonite? *smoothes hair back, kinda richie cunningham*
1. Libertarian self-esteem dept 15 years ago
  
  richie cunningham, Grandpa
Libertarian self-esteem dept 15 years ago

richie cunningham. I prefer the fonz.
Matthew 15 years ago

Please Jesse, enlighten us: How is this "smart" ? -
The author is just rehashing all the trash talking points of anyone interested in attacking self described conservatives for the last 30 years.
Matthew 15 years ago

Since JW is unlikely to show up here, maybe you can tell me: What about this article was "smart"? Or even original?
Matthew 15 years ago

Oh and Jesse, if you think this tirade is "superior" with what articles do you usually waste your time reading?
MJ 15 years ago

"We know that for the foreseeable future, liberals have the whip-hand in forming the "prevailing structure of taboos."

So his problem here is that fighting the politcally correct taboos enforced by the left makes him shunned or that he agrees with the left's taboos?

Tis column amounts to a lot of whining by someone who seems to want the Conservative movement to fit him better than it does.
bleephole 15 years ago

"Libertarian self-esteem dept"

Same troll as rather Crazy that Libertarian/RCTL/real RCTL/put up or shut up.
Jesse Walker 15 years ago

Answering questions...

What's smart and funny about it? Various things, but the point that resonated most with me was this one: "You try everything in the culture?The Incredibles, Wal-Mart, Crocs?and you ask: Is it conservative? This makes us look like creep socialists from the 1930s, debating endlessly about whether something is sufficiently proletariat."

Doesn't he conflate the conservative movement with the GOP? Sometimes. He should have left out the Eisenhower reference. On the other hand, whether or not Nixon properly qualifies as an ideological conservative, conservatives helped get him into power, and for Dougherty's purposes that's the most important point. Same goes for G.W. Bush, who enjoyed cultish support from much of the talk-radio right for much of his presidency.

What is this superior to? Did you read that farewell-to-the-right post on Little Green Footballs?
1. Libertarian self-esteem dept 15 years ago
  
  Jesse, don't be so sensitive. People are not going to like every piece of shit you read as brilliant. In fact, people are going to find shit you like boring. The good news is you can write shit that is a lot more boring that this. So in effect, you win.
2. Lamar 15 years ago
  
  I thought the article was smart because I've grown tired of having a "conservative" version of everything. We need a conservative news station, we need a conservative wiki, we need christian rock, we need a conservative daily show rip off, etc. And I could probably forgive all of this, but the "conservative version" of things is usually a Jesus-ed out husk of the thing being copied.
Libertarian self-esteem dept 15 years ago

bleephole,rather Crazy that Libertarian/RCTL/real RCTL/put up or shut up, How do we not know you are not the troll?
1. bleephole 15 years ago
  
  Dumb troll
Lamar 15 years ago

I loved the article, but I'm in that minority of people who cannot stand that the GOP went in that other direction. It's the truck nutz party. Screw you, truck nutz party.
Rick 15 years ago

I liked this part from the article:

"You've always accused liberals of creating social ills with government programs, immediately followed by proposing government programs for said social ills"
1. Libertarian self-esteem dept 15 years ago
  
  My favorite part was this part: "The end"
  1. bleephole 15 years ago
    
    Dumb troll

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