AP Report on DC Snowball Fight Brouhaha Featuring Reason.tv's Dan Hayes

Reason.tv's Dan Hayes, the producer who captured footage of Saturday's DC snowball fight gone tense, was interviewed by the AP about the incident. Watch above.

And check out the original video and Hayes' appearance on the Today Show by going here.

Comments

[sage]

If you guys could get Sarah Palin, the monkey cartoon, the Ron Paul newsletters, and circumcision into this post, you could easily top a billion comments. Just sayin'.

[BeesInTheBrain]

You forgot climategate.

[sage]

D'oh! Thanks, I knew there was something I was leaving out.

[Pilt-down Man]

Are you denyin' me? Are you denyin' me?
Are you denyin' me? Then what the hell else are you denyin'...are you denyin' me?

[Kennewick Man]

Hey, quit your griping, Pilt. Bill Clinton played candyass politics with me, and now mankind will likely never learn of my origins.

But at least I'm authentic.

[Mad Elf]

Speaking of Climategate, there's an interesting show about Jan Hendrik Schoen on Discovery Science Channel right now.

[Rick H.]

"...until Internal Affairs completes its investigation." Uh huh. Need more time... not enough data. That didn't stop Assistant Chief Pete Newsham, who leads DCPD's investigative services bureau, from lying to the press right off the bat, claiming that "Detective Baylor" never unholstered his weapon.

[Episiarch]

I noticed this as well, and the news talking heads don't express any skepticism or outrage--whatsoever--that the Assistant Chief got completely contradicted by the footage.

Every time there is video footage of an incident we find that the cops utterly, blatantly lie about what happened. Which says, at least to me, that they lie about everything.

[Tulpa]

Yeah, I wonder how Assistant Chief would know one way or the other since he wasn't there during the incident (and if it was stated that way, the press should have asked how). Perhaps he was just saying Baylor denied unholstering his weapon.

[Suki]

Maybe he was trying to say he never unloaded the gun? Some meaningless but true statement.

[TrickyVic]

No, unholstered pretty much means one thing. To pull the weapon out of the holster.

[The Libertarian Guy]

Something Baylor should not have done, which he's probably lamenting in retrospect - or should be.

[TrickyVic]

If he's a decent person.

But what are the odds are he has issues about being the second toughest guy in the hood, always being beat up by the #1. He was merely flashing back when he pulled his weapon.

[sailshonan]

If Detective Baylor made a false statement about never unholstering his gun, most state statutes REQUIRE that an internal investigation be opened. If the allegations that he lied are sustained, they must be forwarded to the state standards office who can then revoke his LEO certification. Never gonna happen though. My BF's a cop and he's seen the corruption and the cover-ups and has agreed that nothing will happen to this guy. If his agency is REALLY harsh, maybe a few days suspension without pay. MAYBE. And he's a minority, so his agency will be very hesitant to do anything to him because the detective will come after them with a racial discrimination suit.

[TrickyVic]

Part of the reason nothing usually happens in these situations is because the "good" cops won't "rat out" the bad cops, coupled with the us vs them attitude. After decades of those beliefs, the higher-ups don't like treating fellow officers like the scum they police.

How many times has your BF reported the corruption and cover-ups he's seen. My bet is on 0. Because he fears retribution from the bad cops.

[sailshonan]

And you would be wrong. He has been in the middle of trying to get his supervisors LE certifications revoked. His supervisors committed state and federal misdemeanors and felonies. He has filed reports with the local PD, the USPS inspectors, the IG's office, the state department of law enforcement, and the governor's office. In each case, the cops at the PD, USPS and DLE were willing to invetigate and wanted to see the supervisors charged. Yet each time, the state attorney and US attorney refused to file charges. Nineteen out of twenty of his colleaugues, all cops, provided witness statements/and or support, even though two have been suspended FOR ABSOLUTELY RIDICULOUS REASONS (One was suspended for workplace violence for cleaning out the dirt from his fingernails with a pocket knife at the conference table) and the Agency faces deep budget cuts and possible layoffs. These cops were stymied at every turn by the management or the state and feds. The IG's office's investigation of his ass clown supervisors let them off (of course). There are a lot of good cops out there, but they're not supervisors or wanna-be supervisors. Those guys are corrupt immoral assholes who only promote their kind so they can continue to flout the law and line their pockets. There are corrupt foot soldiers too, but I think alot of them know even if you report the problems up the chain, in the end, no government entity is going to come down on any gov't entity, and the little guys know that. AND you will always be a little guy if stay honest. So my BF and his colleagues are doing the right thing. what have they learned? No matter what you do, government taks care of their own.

[j.i.am]

Emergency response personnel get payed buku bucks for be well trained emergency response personnel. It doesn't matter whether or not their services are needed at any given time, they need to get payed and won't miss any opportunity to justify their participation in quelling any and all disburbances.

[Rick Santorum]

Reporting for mega-thread...

[sage]

What a frothy comment.

[Star Simpson]

I've got some red Play-Doh with wires hanging out and a circuit board.Should I go act weird at the airport again?

[HeadTater]

Now, if I (as a private citizen) did what that cop did, I would be in F-ing jail! Oh well, I guess that's almost as bad as desk duty.

Oh, by the way, that first girl they interviewed is kinda hot in my opinion.

[The Art-P.O.G.]

Yeah. But it was kinda funny when she said "organize spontaneous events." Ha!

[Suki]

Is that like well regulated anarchy?

[Clay Davis]

I didn't know Reason employed hipsters. Are they working there ironically?

[The Art-P.O.G.]

Ha! Hayes may look like a hipster, but at least he talks like a normal human being and not a beatnik.

[anarch]

The uniformed officers arrived, as I understand it, in response to a citizen's 911 call. Whom was the officer, out of his jurisdiction, calling/speaking to on his radio? His department in Maryland?

[ConHugeCo]

Every time I read the phrase "uniformed officer" I read it as "Uninformed Officer" guess I have been reading to much Balko.

[Tulpa]

You already know my opinion. I don't want to crash Reason's server by questioning the conventional wisdom and making the herd get all crazy-like.

[hmm]

I'm amazed Dan didn't change into his orange and white spandex outfit with the giant "R" on the cape and charge in to save that poor officers property. What an unreasonable thing to do. And you call yourself a libertarian Mr. Hayes!

Again, nice work Mr. Hayes.

[Tulpa]

It doesn't take a superhero to tell your fellow hipsters to stop throwing snowballs at moving vehicles (and uninvolved people!) in the midst of poor driving conditions.

[Tulpa]

Not that Robin was a real superhero (that's a different thread), but you know what I mean.

[Snowball/thread ref]

Tulpa, don't quit "making the herd get all crazy-like" because the last thread fight was a blast.
Are you telling me you are going to kiss and make-up?

[Tulpa]

No, it's just not worth the energy to argue about this with a bunch of people (myself included) who aren't going to change the outcome in any way. I guess I'm just becoming a snowball nihilist.

[Snowball/thread ref]

Bah humbug!

[Episiarch]

I didn't have a chance to participate in the earlier threads, but I'd like to have a question answered from those who defend the cop: what if someone had gotten shot? Over snowballs?

[hmm]

As another said here. He would probably be dead in most CCW states. It takes a real retard to pull a weapon in anger and threaten a crowd. That kind of silly shit will prompt some people to defend themselves. Talk about an ugly mess if that happened.

[Suki]

Are there even enough CCW holders in the entire country to find 150 that behave like the snowball kids?

[hmm]

CCW permits doubled for this year in my state. Most people wouldn't carry to a snowball fight.

[sailshonan]

That's how you know the cop didn't feal threatened by the crowd and therefore should never have pulled his weapon. That cop would NEVER have gotten out of his vehicle and confronted a bunch of snowballers in a bad area of town. NEVER. He was just asserting his authoritah at whiny wimpy white kids.

[Tulpa]

Considering he was pointing the gun at the ground the whole time, that would have been highly unlikely. Less likely than a motorist losing control of the car due to snowballs covering his windshield and swerving off into the snowballers, cutting off the flower of the hipster community before their time. What a tragedy that would be!

[Episiarch]

So people that you think are douchebags (and very well may be) don't have basic rights, like the right to not be threatened by some thug with a badge and a gun?

Also:

"Even the authorities/are minorities/in my water park national capitol"

[Mad Elf]

The cop didn't pull the gun until the hipsters started throwing snowballs at him. One of those could have had large pieces of ice or another hard object that could do serious damage. I agree that the cop should've kept on driving and avoided a confrontation, but the snowball throwers also helped escalate the situation here. If they would simply have acted like adults instead of throwing snowballs at someone that was justifiably pissed at having shit thrown at his vehicle, then it's unlikely the cop would have drawn his weapon.

[Episiarch]

Dude, this line of argument is specious. Haven't you ever been tagged by someone with a snowball? Would you really go to yourself "oh shizzle that could have really hurt me"?

They didn't respect his authoritah, and he pulled a fucking piece over snowballs. This is flat out bullshit. You know it, I know it, and he knows it.

[Mad Elf]

I would have kept driving in that situation. However assuming that I did make the mistake of confronting the crowd, if I'm confronted by a mob of 20 people that don't want to be reasoned with, then yes, I might be worried about defending myself. A snowball packed with ice can knock you unconscious. You could ask Sid Brooks about that if he was still alive.

[Entendrer]

Trust me, a snowball can ruin a hummer.

[Mad Elf]

And yes, I've been involved in plenty of snowball fights. I grew up in north central PA. However, whenever I was involved in a snowball fight, it was always with friends not a hostile mob, so I wasn't worried about them intentionally packing ice or rocks in their snow balls.

[Episiarch]

Well, I have been involved in many impromptu snowball fights, and have had total strangers gun snowballs at me, and never once did I think anything other than "you son of a bitch, I am so totally going to get you back". Which is exactly what the cop thought, but my "get you back" is "hit you with a snowball" and his is "I'm a fucking cop and I feel totally fine threatening you with a gun because you disrepected my suthoritah".

[Tulpa]

Well you're super cool Epi, were/are a very fun target to throw snow at, and I'm sure all of us appreciate that. However, you shouldn't expect everyone to be that way.

[Episiarch]

If I ambush you with a snowball, you're comfortable pulling a gun on me? Guess what--you'd be arrested instantly for brandishing. Unless you're a cop.

[Tulpa]

Not if I ice you and all the witnesses before the cops arrive.

[Episiarch]

Ah, so we've graduated to murder now. You really have zero argument, don't you.

Guess what, genius--I always have a gun on me. When you try to ice me, I get to ice you. But I don't even need to do that. I'll just play Cartman singing "Poker Face" and destroy your mind that way. You like Lady Gaga, don't you?

[Tulpa]

I'm not here for an argument, I'm just here for the kittens. And if everyone stays out of my way, no one will get hurt.

[Suki]

Kittens!

[The Art-P.O.G.]

How did that work for Jack in "Four Brothers"!? Huh?

[somedude]

Just snowball the cop already.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v.....re=related

[TrickyVic]

Come on, you know how that plays out. The officer was assulted and used necessary force to subdue the attacker.

[John C. Randolph]

I'm just trying to imagine how this scenario would have played out in any "must issue" state. Asshole cop draws his weapon, sixty people in the crowd draw theirs... Someone in the crowd says "how many rounds you got in that gun, officer? Maybe you should just walk away."

-jcr

[Mad Elf]

I don't think people would be throwing snowballs at random moving vehicles and people if they thought the driver had a gun.

[Tulpa]

They weren't even throwing them at random vehicles -- they were targeting Hummers specifically. Which is makeist discrimination, even worse.

[highnumber]

...sez the hipster hater.

[wylie]

Sounds like a good argument for CCW permits. And lots of them.

The whole situation would never have happened then.

[The Johnny Appleseed of Crack]

Question for everyone:

Is Tulpa
a.) A troll
b.) A total moron
c.) A reasonable human being who happens to believe that having your car (or your person) pelted by snowballs actually constitutes assault.

[Tulpa]

(d) a guy who had a bad experience with a hummer and a snowball.

[The Art-P.O.G.]

I actually think Tulpa raises good points, but then again I'm not important in any way.

[Suki]

Me too.

[Tulpa]

Anyone who compliments me is ipso facto important.

[anarch]

Or even eo ipso.

[highnumber]

What good points?

[VikingMoose as Thunderchicken]

silly mortal. haven't you read the good points?

[highnumber]

Didn't see any. Thought his point was that it was just and right to threaten deadly force because someone threw a snowball at your car.

[VikingMoose]

BUT OF COURSE IT IS!

a Man's car (pronounced, "KOR") is his castle. It's his manhood. You throw the junk at the manhood, you have to pull the other manhood extender out to defend the one manhood that was just sullied.

Bottom line: no junk at manhood, no need to pull the other m'hood out.

oh yeah. gaggidy gaggidy goo.

[highnumber]

Ah, yes. The manhood extender.
The piece.
The heater.
The equalizer.
The boom stick.
The pea shooter.
Your little friend. (Hello!)

[VikingMoose]

exactly! and the doctor said that i'd stop shooting peas if my diet were cleaned up somewhat...

just don't heave at the KOR. It's mah KOR.

(do you think anybody else is paying attention to us?)

[highnumber]

We were late to this party.

Not that anyone ever pays attention anyway. I'm going to lock myself in my room and listen to Bauhaus while I cut myself just to show them.

[VikingMoose]

do Emo Vampire and Mr. Steven Crane assist by holding the blade to a candle to "sterilize" it?

[highnumber]

They used to. Not anymore.

Not anymore.

[VikingMoose]

then you can borrow my 8-track player as a model for what you want on your forearms.

[VikingMoose]

then you can borrow my 8-track player as a model for what you want on your forearms.

[Colonel_Angus]

They should go do that shit in one of DC's fine needle-infested parks, I think there's this huge one they call "the mall" even though there are no stores in it. Fucking hipsters were throwing snow at a non participant. I would pull a gun too.

[?]

I'm just trying to imagine how this scenario would have played out in any "must issue" state.

It wouldn't have. Dorks don't throw stuff there.

[Snowball/thread ref]

Doesn't anybody think it a tad suspicious Reason had a camera on site. Hmm, story ideas: climate gate , health ins, climate gate , health ins, climate gate , health ins, climate gate , health ins, climate gate , health ins, something for Dec...snowball fight with a gun.

[Tulpa]

I don't find it suspicious at all. You probably couldn't swing a yo-yo in that office without hitting an Orange Line-riding hipster who rides the Orange Line.

[Snowball/thread ref]

Work with me Tulpa. You know someone will freak out and agree.

[Kolohe]

This is sadly Lonewacko's legacy.

Reason HQ in NW are closer to the Red Line than the Orange Line.

(also, hipsters tend to stay in Adams Morgan, or more recently U-Street. (red&green; lines)

The Virginia Orange Line and the Washington/Clarendon/Wilson Blvd coordidor specifically is mostly what would traditionally called Yuppies (but Obama-type, not Reagan-type))

((btw, I also think Tulpa has brought up a lot of good points and I also am no one of consequence))

[Suki]

They left out prostitution and drugs. If that was in there, then yea.

[Tonio]

Doesn't anybody think it a tad suspicious Reason had a camera on site.

No. For starters, there are doubtlessly hundreds of similar incidents every day in the USA, and it was inevitable that one would eventually happen in the presence of a "Reason" staffer, stringer or whatever.

Second, with the proliferation of digicams, including cell-phone based ones, it's increasingly likely that every conflict, or act of douchebaggery will be captured on video, or at least still-photographed.

The problem, dear Snowball, is not with the messengers, but with our cops.

[Hobo Chang Ba]

Ah, another one of those dilemmas that basic libertarianism can not solve - at what point does the right to defend one's own property supercede the right of others to have a good time? Not that he didn't go overboard, and not that a law-abiding citizen could have defended his property in the same fashion in DC, but were he in a town with CC and a non-cop citizen doing the same thing, would Reason make a big deal out of it? I wonder...frankly, if we had an expensive Hummer, most of us wouldn't really want it to get dented by ironic hipsters who could give less of a shit about property rights if it interferes with their fun.

[You dumbasses]

Really pathetic how some are trying to make a thing out of this. You throw stuff at a cop car or a cop, you're breaking the law. It doesn't matter if it's snow, rocks or whatever. That cop didn't do anything wrong and he should have kicked some ass. If you are down to trying to entrap cops with a snowball fight, all the other problems in the world must be fixed. Now, go home and water your pot plants.

[Tulpa]

I hadn't thought about the entrapment angle. Very creative.

[Episiarch]

Wow, are you serial? Super serial? You really think some idiots throwing snowballs came up with the perfect plan to "entrap" (which only LEOs and gov. officials can do, of course) some out-of-jurisdiction Maryland cop?

I can't believe you're willing to look this ridiculous just in order to continue fellating authority.

[Tulpa]

No, I'm not serial. I'm very asynchronous indeed.

[Tulpa]

Actually, I think this whole thing was organized by the DC govt to try to entrap a passing motorist and manufacture a story about the "inevitable consequences" of the SCOTUS allowing concealed carry in DC. But then when it turned out to be an off-duty cop that got hooked, they had to abort the whole thing and try to paint it as just a bunch of hipsters getting theirs.

[TrickyVic]

Is your foil hat tingling?

[wylie]

I thought the foil hat was supposed to stop that tingling sensation. Mine does, anyway.

[anarch]

If some members of crowd did want to entrap an indignant, anngry cop, what would be a more efficient way than pelting him with a snowball while yelling "F*in' pig!"

[The Libertarian Guy]

Another idiot who assumes every libertarian is a "stoner". Lame.

[R C Dean]

You throw stuff at a cop car or a cop, you're breaking the law.

It wasn't a cop car.

The cop wasn't in uniform, or even in his jurisdiction. I'm not even sure he was actually a cop at the time, to tell you the truth. You're a cop when you are on duty, and just another peon when you're not, in my book.

But other than that, spot on.

[TrickyVic]

""You're a cop when you are on duty, and just another peon when you're not, in my book.""

Too bad your book doesn't apply in real life.

[TrickyVic]

How many times have you heard being a cop is 24/7 job?

[BakedPenguin]

(d) a guy who had a bad experience with a hummer and a snowball.

By "hummer", do you mean the vehicle, or the sex act? Because I can see how a snowball could ruin that.

I still wouldn't pull a gun, though.

[Tulpa]

Well, my six shooter was already unholstered (obviously) before getting the snowball in the mouth.

[BakedPenguin]

Since I missed the fact that you were making the exact same joke I repeated, I think it's past my bedtime.

[BakedPenguin]

Let me try again: since I missed the fact that I made the exact same joke as you...

Sleep deprivation is a bad thing.

[Suki]

By snowball do you mean the sex act or the ball of water?

[Joe M]

I find it interesting that no one, as far as I know, has commented on the fact that the Today clip mentions that the police initially denied he even pulled out his gun. They instinctively circled the wagons without even bothering to get the facts. Pretty damning imo.

[Episiarch]

Uh, read upthread. We mentioned this already.

[Joe M]

Duh, how did I miss that? I just spent all that effort searching the other threads and somehow skimmed right over that. Well, uh, I agree with you then.

[Tulpa]

Is Dan Hayes demonstrating proper mind-melding technique in that video still?

[FrenchHash]

I think the girl is hot, but how the fuck do you organize a spontaneous event? (1:45)

[The Art-P.O.G.]

I pointed this out upthread. It was funny.

[FrenchHash]

haha ok my bad

[anarch]

If G.K. Chesterton were around, he would say that organizing a spontaneous event is, pathetically, the very emblem of modernity.

Of course, he'd be tweeting that critique.

[The Art-P.O.G.]

Good one, anarch. I guffawed.

[Tulpa]

That would happen if the spontaneous event comes into being as a disorganized thing, and then someone comes along and organizes it. That wouldn't change the fact that it was spontaneous.

[FrenchHash]

True, but you have to be chronological about it. She said they would continue to organize spontaneous events, not spontaneously organize events.

[FrenchHash]

Its WAY too late for this shit....so forgive me if I'm wrong

[Tulpa]

Maybe she's not all there. But then again, not all of her has to be...

[Me]

That means they organize a kernel couple of people, a threesome, hoping that lots of witnesses will spontaniously join them and make it into an event.
That's Mao schooling.

[A Different Bill]

Hmmm.... lessee...

People hit a guy's car with snowballs. Guy gets out and starts waving gun around (i.e., brandishing a firearm).

This is like the easiest law school hypo ever. The dude broke the law, at least in most states. It's illegal to display a firearm in a threatening manner or with intent to intimidate unless it is necessary to prevent an imminent threat of significant bodily injury or death.

So if the crowd converged and started kicking the shit out of the guy, or of some thugs approached him holding pipes and two-by-fours or something, and saying they were gonna bash his head in, then yeah, by all means, he can justifiably and legally pull his gun out and show it to them.

But someone hits your car with a snowball? Even if they dented it or scratched it or chipped the windshield, nope, there is no justification for unholstering your firearm and waving it around.

But of course I'm sure his "superiors" (which in a sane universe includes pretty much everybody else in the video) will "consider all the facts and circumstance" and then come to the conclusion that he "acted appropriately" and "in accordance with departmental policy."

What a crock.

[P Brooks]

Threaded comments SUCK.

[The Libertarian Guy]

I had a friend-with-benefits not long ago, and she surprised me by introducing me to snowballing.

It freaked me out, but I didn't pull a loaded gun over it.

[R C Dean]

Hell, the first time I got snowballed, I damn near had an accidental discharge. Believe me, I was unholstered, baby.