Media

The Final Word on the Polanski Affair—From George Orwell (Plus, the Inevitable & Ongoing Updates)

|

Over at the Volokh Conspiracy, Jim Lindgren exhumes this quote from George Orwell 1944 essay, "Notes on Dali":

In an age like our own, when the artist is an altogether exceptional person, he must be allowed a certain amount of irresponsibility, just as a pregnant woman is. Still, no one would say that a pregnant woman should be allowed to commit murder, nor would anyone make such a claim for the artist, however gifted. If Shakespeare returned to the earth to-morrow, and if it were found that his favourite recreation was raping little girls in railway carriages, we should not tell him to go ahead with it on the ground that he might write another King Lear.

Emphasis added by Lindgren, who notes,

When Orwell says that even a reborn Shakespeare couldn't get away with "raping little girls," he was either reflecting the mores of the times…or he forgot about Hollywood.

More here.

Yesterday's post on the disturbing apologies for Polanski.

Hat tip: Instapundit

Update: As Gawker's Richard Rushfield notes, over 70 film folks have signed a petition asking that Polanski be set free. Among the signatories:

Michael Mann, Wim Wenders, Pedro Almodóvar, Darren Aronofsky, Terry Gilliam, Julian Schnabel, the Dardenne brothers, Alejandro González Iñárritu, Wong Kar-Wai, Walter Salles and Jonathan Demme. Actors Tilda Swinton, Monica Bellucci and Asia Argento, as well as producer Harvey Weinstein have also put their names on the petition. Yesterday, Weinstein stated he was "calling on every film-maker we can to help fix this terrible situation".

On The View, Whoopi Goldberg (assisted by guest host Melissa Gilbert) explained, without much in the way of facts about the case, that Polanski was not guilty of "rape-rape."

And one-time Reason cover pinup and ostensible human-rights activist and philosopher Bernard Henri-Levy boasts (yet again at Huffington Post) of a petition published in his journal  La Règle du jeu that reads:

He risks extradition to the United States for an episode that happened years ago and whose principal plaintiff repeatedly and emphatically declares she has put it behind her and abandoned any wish for legal proceedings.

Seventy-six years old, a survivor of Nazism and of Stalinist persecutions in Poland, Roman Polanski risks spending the rest of his life in jail for deeds which would be beyond the statute-of-limitations in Europe.

We ask the Swiss courts to free him immediately and not to turn this ingenious filmmaker into a martyr of a politico-legal imbroglio that is unworthy of two democracies like Switzerland and the United States. Good sense, as well as honor, require it.

Among the signatories to BHL's petition are Salman Rushdie and Milan Kundera, who know repression but, alas, not the rule of law.

To bring it back to Orwell: First, to call a statutory rape "an episode" is a weasel word, to be sure, especially given that Polanski pled guilty to the charge of unlawful sex with a minor. Second, to harp on Polanski's awful life experiences and supposed aesthetic ingenuity (please, really, consider his filmography in full) is to miss the point that such special pleading is irrelevant to the moral questions involved. As I asked yesterday, would these same people be backing Polanski if he were a Catholic priest?

More updates: Leftys split on issue. Katrina "The Nation" vanden Heuvel tweets that she agrees with Polanski apologist Anne (It was a long time ago and he had a tough life) Applebaum of the WashPost but please  "Don't call me apologist for Polanski." Meanwhile Clara "Mother Jones" Jeffrey tweets "Polanski ADMITTED crime of anal/oral/vaginal drugged rape of 13-yr-old. His minor irritant of living abroad in luxury might end. Boo Hoo." and "Seriously, all it takes for smart lefties to believe Polanski not be punished for child rape is agitprop documentary? Pathetic."

Even more update: Polanski, who holds dual Polish and French citizenship, should be glad he's not being arraigned in contemporary Poland. As Foreign Policy reported yesterday:

Polish Foreign Minister Radoslaw Sikorski and French Foreign Minister Bernard Kouchner called on U.S. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton to stop the extradition. Kouchner called the arrest "a bit sinister." In these countries, Polanski is widely regarded as an exceptional filmmaker and a victim of the overzealous American justice system….

But Sikorski's defense of Polanski comes at an awkward time: Poland is in the process of implementing much-harsher punishments for people who commit sex crimes. Last week, all but three of the 460 members of Poland's lower chamber of parliament voted to punish certain sex offenders with chemical castration. People convicted of raping a person under 15 (the crime Polanski pled guilty to) or a close relative would be given drugs to diminish their libido, under the new law. On top of chemical castration, there are increased penalties for incest and pedophilia. Trying to justify pedophilia would also be criminalized.

NEXT: He's Not Drunk, He's Alcoholically Disabled

Editor's Note: We invite comments and request that they be civil and on-topic. We do not moderate or assume any responsibility for comments, which are owned by the readers who post them. Comments do not represent the views of Reason.com or Reason Foundation. We reserve the right to delete any comment for any reason at any time. Report abuses.

  1. Was Chinatown that good?

    Seriously?

  2. Was Chinatown that good?

    No. But I have yet to see a movie that is good enough to let someone slide for ass-raping a 13 yo.

    And The Ninth Gate was on again last night, in some sort of bizarre coincidence.

  3. What’s libertarian about the state setting an arbitrary age of consent?

  4. C’mon, Chinatown was pretty damn awesome.

  5. This is my best defense of Polanski.
    The prosecutors have chosen not to accuse him of intoxicating, drugging and forcibly raping a girl. Polanski has not pled guilty to intoxicating, drugging and forcibly raping a girl. He only pled guilty to having sex with a 13-year-old girl. This is the only charge he is guilty of. The rest is just the “she said, he said” stuff. This means that thanks to the prosecutors it was essentially consensual sex.
    The statutory rape laws are not universally accepted. Some 13-year-old girls can be sexually and emotionally mature. It’s reasonable to assume that Polanski considered this law unfair (remember it was consensual sex) and he fled the country where he couldn’t face a fair trial. Who would criticize a man fleeing from Iran or Saudi Arabia where he was accused of, say, sodomy?
    If you look at the facts from this perspective, how does the Polanski affair differ from the Genarlow Wilson case?

  6. “What’s libertarian about the state setting an arbitrary age of consent?”

    He drugged her and forced himself on her. Her age is only an agrivating factor.

  7. What’s libertarian about the state setting an arbitrary age of consent?

    What’s libertarian about being a racist douche?

  8. Me thinks that Nik doth protesteth too much in favor of state power.

  9. “The statutory rape laws are not universally accepted.”

    I think everyone would accept that 13 is good age for it. If she had been 17, I would agree with you.

  10. Polanski can always get work directing commercials for Acorn.

  11. What’s libertarian about being a racist douche?

    Are you kidding? Show me an institution that is racially mixed that isn’t required to be by law.

    LIbertarianism is the perfect ideology for those who want to stay away from others.

  12. Grrizzli you fail basic logic. Go back to high school and try again.

  13. Was Chinatown that good?

    It had that one famous line in it.

    If the deal is one free ass-rape per deathless catchphrase, Shakespeare probably wasted his life. The part he didn’t spend ass-raping, I mean.

    The fault, dear Brutus, is not in our stars, nudge nudge
    But in ourselves, that we are underlings. Ooooooooh!

  14. If the deal is one free ass-rape per deathless catchphrase

    Does X get one for “Shut the @#@# up, Lonewacko”?

  15. What’s libertarian about the state setting an arbitrary age of consent?

    That’s a bit of a red herring, don’t you think? Rape via drugs and over the victim’s protests (as in the Polanski case, apparently) would be rightly outlawed in a libertarian state regardless of the age of the victim.

  16. In other news, I’m apparently a very slow typist.

  17. It’s reasonable to assume that Polanski considered this law unfair
    Oh.

    Okay, then.

    I’m going to make a list of laws which I propose to disregard, under the “unfairness” defense. I’ll start with bank robbery; where’s my sawed-off shotgun?

  18. Johnny L, though that particular gem is Warty’s (i think), i will gladly take credit for it. Yo, fuck other peoples’ internet legacies.

  19. Europeans just still don’t take rape seriously, that’s the problem. They’ve still got the idea that a woman who gets raped must have wanted it, or she would have fought off her attacker or something.

    And maybe they also think that sex at 13 is no big deal. And maybe they also think that an older man fucking a 13 year old is fine too.

    But, jesus H. Fucking Christ, I still can’t fathon what kind of warped psychology is going to conclude that ass-raping a drugged 13 year olf while she begs you to stop isn’t a big deal.

  20. T-

    What’s libertarian about responding to the question “what’s libertarian about the state setting an arbitrary age of consent?” with “what’s libertarian about being a racist douche?”

  21. If you look at the facts from this perspective, how does the Polanski affair differ from the Genarlow Wilson case?

    So the real question is whether or not your are a troll or a complete idiot.

  22. Why did the prosecutors drop the charges that Polansky intoxicated the girl and forcibly raped her? They screwed up the case. If they believed that Polanski forcibly raped a girl, they should have punished him to the full extent of the law.

  23. Show of hands – who’s shocked that Dick Hoste is a pedophile?

    Johnny L, though that particular gem is Warty’s (i think), i will gladly take credit for it. Yo, fuck other peoples’ internet legacies.

    Some douchebag told me the other day that I’m being annoyingly repetitive by typing out the whole thing. Yo, fuck that asshole.

  24. Hazel, I actually happen to believe that Polanski is a scumbag and ass-raped a drugged 13-year-old girl because I’ve read her testimony. But it’s basically that I believe one side in the “she said, he said” matter. There was no trial where the other party could present other evidence.

  25. What’s libertarian about having 10,000 spoons when all you need is a knife?

  26. The prosecutors have chosen not to accuse him of intoxicating, drugging and forcibly raping a girl. Polanski has not pled guilty to intoxicating, drugging and forcibly raping a girl. He only pled guilty to having sex with a 13-year-old girl.

    That’s what makes it a plea bargain. It does not mean that he did not, in fact, drug her and sodomize her while she begged him to stop.

    Regardless, he pled guilty. He didn’t flee because he thought he couldn’t get a fair trial. There wasn’t going to be a trial. He fled because he didn’t want to do the time for a crime he pled guilty to.

  27. What’s libertarian got to do, got to do with it?

  28. What’s libertarian about responding to the question “what’s libertarian about the state setting an arbitrary age of consent?” with “what’s libertarian about being a racist douche?”

    What’s libertarian about responding to a question asking what’s libertarian responding to a questions about asking what’s …

    Ahh, the hell with it. You figure out what’s libertarian and be the only True Scotsman.

  29. What’s libertarian got to do, got to do with it?

    Thread winner!

  30. There was no trial where the other party could present other evidence.

    Because Polanski accepted a plea agreement for lessor charges — which he probably got, in some part, because of his celebrity status.

  31. As a libertarian but not an anarchist, I find it reasonable to have laws against rape. But what should determine if consent can even be given? Clearly emotional development is part of it, not age. For example, sex with a severely retarded woman is probably rape, regardless of her age. However, neither the state nor the individual has a good emodev meter, so using age as a default setting seems reasonable. What should the line be? 12 is probably too low, 18 is probably too high, (18 || x/2+7) is too complicated. Most US states have decided on 16. With various caveats. Seems reasonable, and doesnt violate libertarianism at all.

  32. What’s libertarian about Scotsmen, you fascist bastard?

  33. Why did the prosecutors drop the charges that Polansky intoxicated the girl and forcibly raped her?

    Does the term “plea bargain” ring a bell?

  34. What’s libertarian about Scotsmen, you fascist bastard?

    The fact that you suckle from Adam Smith’s withered taint, you racist fuck?

  35. Hazel-

    You and others are missing the point. Its about the state taking the money of californians, at the threat of incarceration, in order that some do-gooder/crusader/public sector parasite can flex his or her totalitarian muscles.

    First and foremost, libertarianism is about crushing public sector monopoly justice and its assault on individuality, property, dececny, justice and prosperity.

    It is far more important that public sector actors and bodies get a good dose of humility than Polanski, at great expense and damage to the taxpayer, be extradited.

    FREE ROMAN!

  36. But it’s basically that I believe one side in the “she said, he said” matter. There was no trial where the other party could present other evidence.

    There was no trial, because he plead guilty. We don’t usually have trials after a guilty plea.
    He made a plea bargain to the lesser charge of statutory rape, to get out of punishment on the drugging and ass-raping part. Then he fled the country to avoid sentancing.

    Let’s not forget that this was the late 70s and there weren’t many protections for rape victims, and it was common to say they were asking for it. So this 13 year old was unlikely to want to get on the stand, which is probably why they let him off easy.

    But your argument is basically that because he was only “convicted” (plead guilty) on statutory rape charge, and that is no big deal, he shouldn’t serve any time at all. He AGREED to the statutory rape charge to avoid being tried for drugging and raping a child. That is all.

  37. I know what “plea bargain” is. Maybe this is the case that displays severe drawbacks of plea bargains. Because the prosecutors were lazy, corrupt or incompetent they ignored truly heinous crimes and instead charged a man with a consensual sex with an underage girl that has a limited shocking value.

  38. Was she asking for it? Was she asking nice? Did she ask you for it? Did she ask you twice?

  39. I’ll bet that the prosecution made clear that it would accept a plea on the statutory rape charge, but that it would also seek the maximum sentence. I imagine that the drugging and raping business would’ve gotten him a very lengthy sentence, which is why he agreed to the lesser charge (the talk about him walking away with time served sounds like total BS). I think he planned to flee all along.

    In any event, his wealth and fame doubtless had a role in him getting the lesser charge. Sounds like there was a decent case against him for the full-blown crime. Though it’s possible that the prosecution didn’t feel that the rape charge had adequate evidence, I don’t see them making a deal on that basis. He’d still have the count for statutory rape at trial.

    There isn’t anything not libertarian in protecting minors from sexual abuse. Most of us support laws against murder, too.

  40. Please tell me I’m not the only one here who has never even heard of Chinatown.

  41. Was she asking for it? Was she asking nice? Did she ask you for it? Did she ask you twice?

    Shouldn’t you go back to selling off your dead husband to fund your various problems instead of commenting here?

  42. What’s libertarian about taint-withering?

  43. Because the prosecutors were lazy, corrupt or incompetent they ignored truly heinous crimes and instead charged a man with a consensual sex with an underage girl that has a limited shocking value.

    Do you have any idea how hard it is to get rape convictions? Do you have any idea how hard it was to get rape convictions in the 70s? Making a plea down to statutory rape doesn’t make them incompetent. Polanski was getting off light because of his celebrity status and the fact that it was hard to get rape convictions.

    And do you realize that the judge decided that the crime was too severe for the plea bargain and was going to give him a harsher sentance?

    Why are you so commited to letting this child-rapist off the hook? Sympathy for our European comrades? Bending over backwards to try to excuse the obviously debased apologias? Lock-step conformity with the prevailing opinions of your friends? Just can’t deal with the fact that a bunch of people you normally like and agree with are TOTALLY FUCKING WRONG AND IMMORAL?

  44. T,

    I just saw a picture of her hanging on Hugo Chavez. She’s a great woman.

  45. Please tell me I’m not the only one here who has never even heard of Chinatown.

    Come ON! Kurt Russell and Kim Cattrall fighting against James Hong?! Get some culture, man!

    Jack Burton: That is not water.
    Egg Shen: Black blood of the earth.
    Jack Burton: Do you mean oil?
    Egg Shen: I mean black blood of the earth.

  46. “Maybe this is the case that displays severe drawbacks of plea bargains. Because the prosecutors were lazy, corrupt or incompetent they ignored truly heinous crimes and instead charged a man with a consensual sex with an underage girl that has a limited shocking value.”

    Actually, the prosecutors did a pretty good job in this case. I am surprised they went after such a high profile guy. Celebrity usually gets the case covered up. Had there been a trial, Polanski would have had good lawyers who would have put the victim through hell on the stand. Polanski also had the money to buy off the victim through a civil settlement to get her to change her story. It was a tough case to prove. So, they did the smart thing and took a plea bargain and spared the girl from testifying. It wasn’t a bad deal. They gaurenteed themselves of getting a conviction on his record. Polanski would have been a convicted felon and a two time loser if any other girl ever stepped forward with such a story again. All and all, I don’t think it was a bad deal for either party. Polanski was an idiot for runnning.

  47. I just saw a picture of her hanging on Hugo Chavez.

    See, assrape never goes to the deserving.

  48. See, assrape never goes to the deserving.

    I bet you could get Courtney Love to anally violate Hugo Chavez with a chairleg for a week’s supply of Vicodin.

    They’d probably both enjoy it, though.

  49. I think he planned to flee all along.

    I wonder if his “co-operation” allowed him to get his passport back. Assuming the cops made him surrender it in the beginning.

  50. Calm down, Hazel. I’m only trying to explain why supposedly decent people protest the extradition of Polanski. For people living outside the US and unfamiliar with the ways the US legal system works, the case looks as follows: Polanski has never been convicted of drugging and ass-raping anyone. He has plead guilty only to a consensual sex with a minor. It happened long ago. The girl has forgiven Polanski.

  51. What Dick Hoste does with his female relatives is never rape because WOMAN GET BACK IN THAT KITCHEN.

    Shut the fuck up, Dick Hoste.

  52. Show me an institution that is racially mixed that isn’t required to be by law.

    My gun club. We don’t care who the eff you are as long as you like guns, safe and are a member of the NRA.

  53. If Polanski made a financial settlement with the girl, I’m surprised the D A didn’t go after her for prostitution.

  54. FrBunny,

    Lo Pan: Best bad guy ever.

    I just read that some directors and actors signed a letter demanding his release. Among the directors is Woody Allen. Another screwed up guy who used to make good movies.

    Say, what does Jack have to say about all this? It happened in his house, after all.

  55. Hazel-

    You and others are missing the point. Its about the state taking the money of californians, at the threat of incarceration, in order that some do-gooder/crusader/public sector parasite can flex his or her totalitarian muscles.

    First and foremost, libertarianism is about crushing public sector monopoly justice and its assault on individuality, property, dececny, justice and prosperity.

    It is far more important that public sector actors and bodies get a good dose of humility than Polanski, at great expense and damage to the taxpayer, be extradited.

    FREE ROMAN!

    Libertymike objects to being referred to as a “fucking loon”.

    No, I don’t see why either.

  56. Just what you want: Woody Allen as a character witness in your statutory rape trial.

  57. Unless the guy being accused is black or Mexican, you can assume that the woman is making it up. And even in that case of the accuser is nonwhite she might be lying.

    You really are a disagreeable fuckwad on the internet. Are you like that in meatspace as well?

  58. Hazal meade
    “Europeans just still don’t take rape seriously, that’s the problem. They’ve still got the idea that a woman who gets raped must have wanted it, or she would have fought off her attacker or something.”

    Everyone in europe has the same opinion about everything?

  59. Show me an institution that is racially mixed that isn’t required to be by law.

    My gun club. We don’t care who the eff you are as long as you like guns, safe and are a member of the NRA.

    I don’t doubt that you’re nice folk, but are there a lot of blacks in Mexicans in your club? I remember being in my dentist’s office and picking up some gun magazine with a picture of a club. It was 40 white guys. Libertarian meetings are similar, don’t ya know. Freedom is a white thing.

  60. Show me an institution that is racially mixed that isn’t required to be by law.

    Almost every religious denomination in America. But you knew that, didn’t you?

  61. Wait, point of order here. I know it’s usually considered non-authoritative to cite yourself during an argument. It comes off as “see, I’m right because I said so earlier”. Does the same rule apply when you start quoting from books you publish to prove your point?

    I’m just wondering…

  62. Freedom is a white thing.

    *slaps knee, guffaws*

  63. Why did the prosecutors drop the charges that Polansky intoxicated the girl and forcibly raped her?

    Late to the dog pile, but let me add that prosecutors often drop the part of sexual assault charges that are most likely to lead to a defense attorney doing a brow-beating cross exam of a rape victim. If they don’t, the rape victims might back out of pressing charges.

    Polanski’s attorney had already stated before the trial that he would question the girl on her sexual history and try to drag her through the mud.

  64. I read that the 13-year-old girl said no repeatedly (she was foisted on Polanski by her mother, who wanted her to be in films).

    No means no. Where is the feminist outrage?

    What if Polanski had just been some parish priest? Would he now be getting a pass?

  65. The artists-wanting-exceptions mindset is no different that the police-wanting-exceptions mindset.

  66. ” (remember it was consensual sex)”

    Bullshit.

  67. Almost every religious denomination in America. But you knew that, didn’t you?

    Um, slaveholder and slaves shared the same religion too. Show me a racially mixed church. Or a political organization (not on the left). Or a hobbies club. Sporting events and pro wrestling I’ll give ya, since they appeal to the stupid and the majority of every race is stupid. But people still arrive with members of their own race.

  68. They should either abide by the original plea agreement, which was supposedly “time served” or they should grant him a new trial.

    Is the mom dead? Can she be prosecuted?

  69. I don’t doubt that you’re nice folk, but are there a lot of blacks in Mexicans in your club?

    I live in suburban Maryland, so there are not a lot of Mexicans anywhere. The club is about 20% black.

  70. “Are you kidding? Show me an institution that is racially mixed that isn’t required to be by law.”

    The United Methodist Church

    And they hate your racist guts by the way.

  71. principal plaintiff repeatedly and emphatically declares she has put it behind her

    Just like Polanski put it behind her, and then in her.

  72. Freedom is a white thing.

    Now that is a racist sentiment. We have several regular black posters here, all of whom appear to be libertarian. If we were perfectly balanced demographically, somewhere around one in ten of us would be black. Given that a large percentage of blacks vote Democratic, that number in reality would be much lower.

    I don’t get the left’s paternalism about minorities. Isn’t that as potentially dangerous as other kinds of racism?

  73. Let me break it down for Whoopi.

    When you drug someone against her will, regardless of her age, then have sex with her against her will, that’s rape.

    When you have sex with a 13-year-old girl, regardless of her state, that’s rape.

    When you drug a 13-year-old girl then have sex with her against her will, that’s “rape-rape.”

  74. “Libertarian meetings are similar, don’t ya know. Freedom is a white thing.”

    Really? Tell that to John Monds.

  75. As I asked yesterday, would these same people be backing Polanski if he were a Catholic priest?

    No.

    But, if he were an Imam, or any other non-Christian leader, yes.

  76. “Shouldn’t you go back to selling off your dead husband to fund your various problems instead of commenting here?”

    I saw on TV yesterday that Courtney Love and Hugo Chavez are an item. My immediate thought was this is great! Chavez will kill himself in a year or so.

  77. The victime doesn’t want Polanski in jail and he isn’t likely to repeat the crime so there’s no reason for him to be in jail exept to prove the supremacy of government.

  78. Link FAIL.

    John Monds here.

    Who the hell is John Monds? Wikipedia entry here

  79. I remember watching Repulsion a few years back and thinking “Deneuve can’t really act and Polanksi isn’t really making an attempt to give any direction.”

    There’s no defense for what he did. But I abhor the fact that the state gets to be in charge of criminal cases even when the victim no longer wants judicial revenge. This is all about a faceless organization – government – wanting to save face.

  80. “The artists-wanting-exceptions mindset is no different that the police-wanting-exceptions mindset.”

    FTW!

  81. If Dick Hoste didn’t exist, someone would need to invent him.

  82. “Show me a racially mixed church.”

    Wher the fuck do you live?

  83. They should either abide by the original plea agreement,which was supposedly “time served”

    The original deal, as I understand it, was psychiatric evaluation followed by a sentencing hearing where his sentence would be determined. He violated the plea agreement when he fled the country, so he hasn’t done the “time served” that may have been contemplated (and wasn’t, in any case, part of the plea deal as I understand it).

    Plea bargains can’t bind the judge that actually sets the sentence. They generally involve a guilty plea in exchange for the prosecutor’s recommendation to the judge on sentencing (and, sometimes, dismissal of some charges). The judge can always impose whatever sentence he wants.

    Besides, people aren’t typically allowed to enforce agreements after they breach them. For Polanski to ask the judge to go easy on him because he managed to escape justice for 30 years . . . that’s chutzpah.

  84. An equally important issue to the actual crime of which he was convicted is the fact that he has been a fugitive from the American justice system. Do we really want to send the message that if you rape and run you’ve got a free pass for life?

  85. …are there a lot of blacks in Mexicans in your club?

    Biracial orgy club!

  86. The victime doesn’t want Polanski in jail and he isn’t likely to repeat the crime

    Why on earth do you believe that he isn’t likely to repeat?

  87. Show me an institution that is racially mixed that isn’t required to be by law.

    Every martial arts club I’ve every participated in.

    When people get together to talk and learn about ass kicking they really only care about your ass kicking skills and how safe it is to practice with you.

    I’ve been instructed by white, black, brown and yellow people, and rolled with or exchanged blows with every ethic group that comes to mind except Eskimos and Australian Aborigines.

    And I can say with the authority of personal experience that strange smells exude from sweaty armpits of every color.

  88. …or INTERracial, rather.

    Dangit.

  89. “Show me a racially mixed church.”

    Wher the fuck do you live?

    My first guess is the north.

  90. That 13-year-old girl’s asshole was Polanski’s Dick Hoste.

  91. And if there’s one place where there’s no justification for “supremacy of government” it’s when it comes to rape.

    Thank you for your wisdom affenkopf.

  92. I’m only trying to explain why supposedly decent people protest the extradition of Polanski. For people living outside the US and unfamiliar with the ways the US legal system works, the case looks as follows: Polanski has never been convicted of drugging and ass-raping anyone. He has plead guilty only to a consensual sex with a minor. It happened long ago. The girl has forgiven Polanski.

    The facts of the case have been publicly available to any “supposedly decent” person long enoguh that they have no excuse for remaining ignorant of the fact that he drugged and raped a 13 year old in the ass while she begged him to stop.

    If they remain ignorant of that, it is because they choose to. Which makes them no longer “supposedly decent” but emphatically indecent.

  93. if you rape and run you’ve got a free pass for life?

    That depends. Did you win an OSCAR??

  94. Show me an institution that is racially mixed that isn’t required to be by law.

    The Internet.

  95. As I’m sure has been alluded to countless times since this story broke, peotic justice would be for Polanski to go to prison, that he might experience forcible sodomy firsthand.

    Taking it a step further, let’s say some budding cellblock auteur brought a contraband camcorder to said festivities, with the resultant movie then going viral. Part of me that I’m not proud of would love to see that happen.

  96. “Seriously, all it takes for smart lefties to believe Polanski not be punished for child rape is agitprop documentary? Pathetic.”

    That’s all it took for global warming, TEH CORPORASHUNS and health care “reform.” Documentaries are liberal church: biases confirmed, talking points disseminated and offerings collected.

    Popcorn and soda transubstantiation.

  97. Show me a racially mixed church.

    Every Roman Catholic, Episcopalian, Presbyterian, UU, and Lutheran church in Detroit Michigan. Same goes for the mosques.

    How sheltered of a life do you live, anyway?

  98. Darren Aronofsky, Terry Gilliam

    God damn it!

  99. I was going, “No, I think I better go home,” because I was afraid. So I just went and I sat down on the couch.

    Q. What were you afraid of?

    A. Him.

    . . . .

    Q. What happened then?

    A. He reached over and he kissed me. And I was telling him, “No,” you know, “keep away.”

    But I was kind of afraid of him because there was no one else there.

    . . . .

    Q. What did he do when he placed his mouth on your v****?

    A. He was just like licking and I don’t know. I was ready to cry. I was kind of – I was going, “No. Come on. Stop it.” But I was afraid.

    Q. What happened after that?

    A. He started to have intercourse with me.

    Q. What do you mean by intercourse?

    A. He placed his p****s in my v****a.

    Q. What did you say, if anything, before he did that?

    A. I was mostly just on and off saying, “No, stop.”

    But I wasn’t fighting really because I, you know, there was no one else there and I had no place to go.

  100. Show me an institution that is racially mixed that isn’t required to be by law.

    All we gotta do is pass a law, then govt gets credit for every integrated institution in the country, whether they would have done so themselves or not.

  101. Did Polanski plead guilty to raping a girl under 15 or something else? Reason is getting alarmingly sloppy. Or maybe I just didn’t realize it.

  102. Richard Hoste,

    NASCAR and NHRA events are not required to be racially integrated, but there are people of all races attending them.

    Public schools in the north required children of various races to be bussed across town.

    You sound confused, or you are having trouble coming up with topical topics. From time to time I run into chicks ho say “All I meet around here are rednecks or cops.” You sound just like one of them and the reaction from me is the same you are getting here, “Where the hell are you hanging out?”

  103. Lamar,

    I think it was to statutory rape.

  104. This is the cosmo version of Casey Anthony. Thank you, Nancy Gillespie.

  105. Show me a person who freely and voluntarily chooses to live in the Detroit area and I will show you a loon.

  106. “Seventy-six years old, a survivor of Nazism and of Stalinist persecutions in Poland, Roman Polanski risks spending the rest of his life in jail for deeds which would be beyond the statute-of-limitations in Europe.”

    How disapointing that Levi could say something that stupid. There goes my man crush on the guy. Even in Europe, the statute of limitations doesn’t apply when you jump bail and flee prosecution. Unbelievable.

  107. Mr. Hoste-

    Although I agree with the proposition that a very high percentage of rape allegations are prevarications, I do not subscribe to the view that such a proposition does not apply to blacks and mexicans accused of rape.

  108. I abhor the fact that the state gets to be in charge of criminal cases even when the victim no longer wants judicial revenge.

    Tell me about it. It is unbelievable how many victims of murder do not testify. Plus that whole deterrence thing is highly overrated.

  109. “I abhor the fact that the state gets to be in charge of criminal cases even when the victim no longer wants judicial revenge.”

    That is a mind bogglingly stupid statement. If you follow that logic, rich people would be able to get away with virtually anything by just buying the victim’s silence. Rich and powerful men could spend their time buggering 8 year olds and just paying off the family of the victim, which of course is in essense what Michael Jackson did. I don’t think many people consider that to be a good thing in Jackson’s case.

  110. Show me a person who freely and voluntarily chooses to live in the Detroit area and I will show you a loon.

    I feel that way sometimes. Still Motown has it’s charms and attractions, plenty of good people and the surrouonding area (Miichigan) is gorgeous.

  111. Show me an institution that is racially mixed that isn’t required to be by law.

    The Catholic Church

  112. According to those in Hollywood, it’s now ok to rape those in Hollywood.

    If anyone coming out in support of Polanski is raped, I would acquit if I was on the jury.

  113. Show me an institution that is racially mixed that isn’t required to be by law.

    Oh yeah…i guess i should have simply said Christianity.

    Islam works as well.

  114. “I think it was to statutory rape.”

    I think you’re correct, and I’ll note that there are allegations that it was a real rape. Still, if Polanski were a sympathetic figure you can bet your hog that Reason would have made the distinction.

  115. I guess that J sub D does not want public sector actors and public bodies to get a good dose of humility. He thinks its loony to express the view that public sector actors should be made to be humble.

    Then again, he, unlike me, has spent a good deal of his adult life in the public sector. I guess what I have to say strikes too close too home.

  116. “The victime doesn’t want Polanski in jail and he isn’t likely to repeat the crime so there’s no reason for him to be in jail exept to prove the supremacy of government.”

    Justice has absolutely nothing to do with the victim or what Polanski might or might not do. Polanski plead guilty and then fled because he could not accept his side of the plea agreement in which a judge can chose not not abide by what the prosecutor agreed to.

    It might be argued, strike that… It is clear you are for the supremacy of pedophile rapists.

  117. It is no coincidence that Nick Gillespie and Nancy Grace have the same initials.

  118. The girl has forgiven Polanski.

    The victime doesn’t want Polanski in jail and he isn’t likely to repeat the crime so there’s no reason for him to be in jail exept to prove the supremacy of government.

    So if the victim thought castration were appropriate, we should castrate Polanski?

  119. “Biracial orgy club!”

    First rule of biracial orgy club…. you do not talk about biracial orgy club!

  120. It’s sad when someone is so desperate to bitch about Reason that they just sort of slip dozily into complete incoherence.

  121. JB-

    How about the state actors hell bent on spending more and more money on this publicity stunt? Stop cheerleading for the low life public sector hacks.

  122. “According to those in Hollywood, it’s now ok to rape those in Hollywood.”

    If you saw Transformers 2, it is clear Hollywood has no problems raping anyone in one way or another.

  123. stuartl-

    Analogy fail. Big time.

  124. Roman Polanski is the Ted Kennedy for Hollywood and Europe.

  125. I think you’re correct, and I’ll note that there are allegations that it was a real rape. Still, if Polanski were a sympathetic figure you can bet your hog that Reason would have made the distinction.

    I disagree. I have no idea what Polanski’s politics are, and I don’t care. The minute I read the girl’s testimony I was appalled that the Europeans apparantly feel proud of letting this child-rapist run around Europe freely.

    Also, it’s fair to say that they are more than “allegations” considering that he made a plea bargain to avoid trial and get a lighter sentance.

    Plus there are witnesses such as Angelica Houston, who saw the girl run out of the room afetr he had finished with her.

    I find it seriously disturbing that there are so many people who are willing to excuse and minimize what he did, and on such flimsy grounds.

  126. Libertymike,

    I’m not cheerleading stupid government fucks. I’m telling Hollywood to put their cunts and assholes where their mouths are.

    They don’t seem to think rape is that big a deal. I won’t either when one of them is raped.

  127. “I find it seriously disturbing that there are so many people who are willing to excuse and minimize what he did, and on such flimsy grounds.”

    Ah Hollywood and Europe (and apparently some libertarians)… our moral superiors.

  128. Finally, in the 21st Century, Europe makes an effort to protect a Jew.

  129. Yeah, what I just said.

  130. It’s sad when someone is so desperate to bitch about Reason that they just sort of slip dozily into complete incoherence aren’t very funny.

    I assume that was directed at me.

    “Plus there are witnesses such as Angelica Houston”

    Next up, Hazel Meade’s take on all the Hollywood sleaze.

    And you’ll kindly notice that I merely requested that people get the facts straight. I didn’t defend anybody. Know why? I don’t know the facts. For example, you cite to Huston but appear to be unaware that she defended Polanski. So perhaps I should also introduce you to my friend and mentor Mr. Get-The-Fucking-Facts-Straight.

  131. Lamar,

    I read the testimony of the girl on smoking gun and find it to be quite believable. Apparently, Polanski and his lawyer did to or they wouldn’t have agreed to plead guilty to statutory rape. I am sorry, a then forty something man inviting a 13 year old girl to his home and getting her drunk and sodomizing her is and should be a crime.

  132. “Finally, in the 21st Century, Europe makes an effort to protect a Jew.”

    That was awesome.

  133. Recall that after this kid, he started fucking a 15-year-old Natasha Kinski.

    That’s pedophilia, straight up.

  134. Uh, Kinski was 15 in 1974.

  135. “Uh, Kinski was 15 in 1974.”

    Not exactly. After she appeared nude in a couple of low rate euro horror flicks they claimeed she was born in 1959. In reality she was born in 1961 and was well under 18 when she appeared nude and was dating Polanski. She now says she feels very victimized by those films and those scenes and she wishes she had had someone looking out for her and said no to them.

    Kinski was totally exploited by the movie industry. And now regrets it and says she was harmed by it. And Polanski was a big part of that. It is pretty gross.

  136. “Apparently, Polanski and his lawyer did to or they wouldn’t have agreed to plead guilty to statutory rape.”

    Statutory rape has nothing to do with testimony. If there was intercourse and the girl was underage, it is strict liability. As such, the testimony of a 13 year old girl caught having a sexual relationship is not relevant. Hey, maybe Rifqa Bary is telling the truth too?

    Ultimately, Polanski pleaded guilty to a crime, just not the one Reason reported. I have no problem with him going to jail after pleading guilty. I just despite Reason’s attempt to bring the supermarket tabloids here.

  137. Monica Bellucci is on there? Was she CGI’d into Irreversible? Surely she at least read the script?

    I’m going to point to this moment in history every time someone complains about how Americans stereotype Europe.

  138. “the testimony of a 13 year old girl caught having a sexual relationship is not relevant. Hey, maybe Rifqa Bary is telling the truth too?”

    Wait. Really? REALLY?! “caught having a sexual relationship?”

    Man are you fucked up.

  139. “Statutory rape has nothing to do with testimony. If there was intercourse and the girl was underage, it is strict liability. As such, the testimony of a 13 year old girl caught having a sexual relationship is not relevant. Hey, maybe Rifqa Bary is telling the truth too?”

    His pleading guilty to it has everything to do with the testimony. They had no physical evidence that they had had sex. They only had the girl’s word. If the girl were, Rifqa Berry, Polanski would have had no reason to plead to the lesser crime. His pleading was the result of his wanting to avoid being convicted of his real crimes and the prosecutors worrying about what the victim would have to go through on the stand. The girl is very credible in her testimony.

  140. “Kinski was totally exploited by the movie industry.”

    All actors are exploited by the movie industry. That’s the definition of exploitation. In fact, that’s how every industry works. There is a raw material that is exploited for profit. Where were her parents during all this? If she lied to her former employers, what are they supposed to do? There wasn’t an internet back then.

  141. I think Klaus Kinski was in the “yungle” shouting at Werner Herzog and hitting people on the head with swords.

  142. “His pleading guilty to it has everything to do with the testimony.”

    Thanks, Nancy Grace. Have fun discussing this smut.

  143. “All actors are exploited by the movie industry. That’s the definition of exploitation. In fact, that’s how every industry works. There is a raw material that is exploited for profit. Where were her parents during all this? If she lied to her former employers, what are they supposed to do? There wasn’t an internet back then.”

    She was in her mid teens and was coerced into doing nude scenes she now regrets. If you don’t have a problem with that, you are a sick fuck Lamar. I mean seriously. I never took you to be a troll.

  144. I do not get the attitude that well-known lefties, like Katrina van den Heuvel, have about sex. If I understand them correctly, it’s not OK under any circumstances for a grown man to refer to a woman as a “girl.” Should he do so, he’s guilty of sexual harassment, supporting the patriarchy, etc.

    But for a grown man to have sex with an actual girl, possibly against her will, and with the use of narcotics – well, that has to be interpreted in context, in the whole of the man’s life.

    Have I got that right?

  145. If the girl was telling the truth in her grand jury testimony she was rape-raped. I’m not sure i’ve heard any one credibly discredit her.

    Even if she wasn’t forced it was statutory rape; the age of consent in CA at the time was 14, IIANM.

    And, also, IIANM, if there were statute of limitations, it would not apply to suspects who have been charged and who have fled to somewhere where they have been out of reach of the authorities.

    And, AFAIK, if the judge did not abide by the plea agreement it is grounds to overturn the guilty plea and go back to the whole go on trial thing. It’s pretty clear Polanski didn’t want that.

  146. John,

    I’ve heard that as well, but I find it hard to believe an actress would continue to fake her age older long after the controversy is long forgotten.

    And a 1961 birthdate would mean that she was 14 when To The Devil A Daughter was filmed. Of course this was the 70s… Pretty Baby got made after all. Who knows.

  147. “Where were her parents during all this? If she lied to her former employers, what are they supposed to do? There wasn’t an internet back then.”

    she didn’t lie about her age. They knew her age. They lied to the authorities and changed her age. And her parents were part of it as they whored their daughter out to the movie industry. The whole thing was sick.

  148. With Herzog using a pistol to discipline Klaus.

    My objections to Polanski sleeping with a 13-year old and likely raping her have absolutely zero to do with politics or anything else. Hell, I like his movies, if anything.

    One bias I do have is that I have a 13-year old daughter. But I don’t think it distorts my judgment; it just makes me all-too aware of how horrific this crime was. Granted some cultures don’t have an issue with that sort of thing, and there are certainly promiscuous 13-year olds, but strict liability aside, I’m extremely doubtful that this girl gave consent.

    Polanski would’ve never pled guilty if he hadn’t had sex with the girl. In fact, I think he likely would’ve fought the charges if he’d been innocent of the rape count. There was evidence besides the girl’s testimony, if I recall correctly.

  149. But for a grown man to have sex with an actual girl, possibly against her will, and with the use of narcotics – well, that has to be interpreted in context, in the whole of the man’s life.

    Only if he has the right political beliefs.

  150. I just don’t understand. He drugged and anally raped a 13 year old girl.

    These people who think his art and time passed allow him to escape consequences for his actions … what planet do they live on?

    This is some kind of Bizarro-world. This is nuts.

  151. “I just despite Reason’s attempt to bring the supermarket tabloids here.”

    Hey Lamar, why do you think this is such a big story now? Perhaps it’s an attempt by the neocons to make Hollywood and Europe look bad.

    I mean really. Why is this such a big story NOW?

  152. SF,

    Kinski really dropped out of films in the 90s. I think she really does regret doing those films and doesn’t want to talk about it. For that reason, it makes sense that she left the age thing alone.

  153. Trying to justify pedophilia would also be criminalized.

    No one has commented on this, probably because it’s the last line of the blog post and everyone was just dying to comment on a 35-year-old crime. But it’s still relevant. Freedom of speech and all.

  154. I don’t know what Polanski’s politics are. He could be a raging Libertarian for all I know. If he is, I still would think he needs to go to jail.

  155. Even if she wasn’t forced it was statutory rape; the age of consent in CA at the time was 14, IIANM.

    Nah, the age of consent has been 18 in CA since 1913.

  156. “One bias I do have is that I have a 13-year old daughter. But I don’t think it distorts my judgment; it just makes me all-too aware of how horrific this crime was”

    Mine’s 14, so I’m in your camp. And like you, I also enjoy his films.

  157. “Nah, the age of consent has been 18 in CA since 1913.”

    Can’t be. Whoopie Goldberg says 14.

  158. LibertyMike, I understand you hate the government and the people in it, but this is one of those times they deserve credit for doing the right thing. Polanski committed a heinous crime and was able to plea to a lesser charge and then he decided he didn’t want to go to jail for that lesser charge so he fled the country. LA County is doing the right thing by getting him to face his sentence. It is a show because he’s a celebrity, not because they are trying to waste CA taxpayer dollars.

    As libertarians, there are lots of laws we disagree with, and that we may support the accused fleeing so as to avoid punishment he doesn’t deserve, like say if he was being extradited for smoking weed or simply arming himself or some other victimless crime. This isn’t one of those times, because this scumbag deserves prison in the least. You can’t drug and rape a child and get away with it just because government is usually bad.

  159. Analogy fail. Big time.

    So can you explain when we should take the victim’s preference on punishment into account and when we should not?

  160. This is just beyond bizarre.

    I honestly never thought I would see so many people taking the position that someone who has pled guilty to sex with 13 year old girl, with credible evidence that he drugged and sodomized her, and who subsequently fled the country, should be let off the hook.

    What. The. Fuck.

  161. And I can tell you that, if this happened to one of my nieces, and the perp was walking around, I would be looking very, very seriously at alternative justice.

  162. Show me an institution that is racially mixed that isn’t required to be by law.

    Congress.

  163. Can’t be. Whoopie Goldberg says 14.

    I am waiting for Rosie to weigh in on this.

  164. I honestly never thought I would see so many people taking the position that someone who has pled guilty to sex with 13 year old girl, with credible evidence that he drugged and sodomized her, and who subsequently fled the country, should be let off the hook.

    This is at least the second round of it for this case. They were doing the same back when it was new.

  165. I am waiting for Rosie to weigh in on this.

    That’s just mean. It’s not her fault she consumes 20,000 calories a day. And blogging gibberish only burns so much.

  166. And I can tell you that, if this happened to one of my nieces, and the perp was walking around, I would be looking very, very seriously at alternative justice.

    For those that argue what justice need not be served after 30 years of “self-imposed exile”, you must remember that purpose of the public justice system is to eliminate the need for private justice.

    Once fame and wealth become enough to thwart the public justice system, there will only be private justice.

    I don’t think 30 years would be enough to prevent me from taking retribution if someone raped my daughter at age 13.

  167. “I don’t think 30 years would be enough to prevent me from taking retribution if someone raped my daughter at age 13.”

    I’d help.

  168. Nah, the age of consent has been 18 in CA since 1913.

    I stand corrected. I was misinformed.

    Thank you.

  169. “I mean really. Why is this such a big story NOW?”

    Sex sells. Always has, always will. This was a big story back in the 1970s, was always mentioned whenever Polanski released a film, and is now going through the cycle again. And you were saying something about “now”?

  170. Nah, the age of consent has been 18 in CA since 1913.

    The age of consent is immaterial since the subject is rape and not marriage.

    My source for this is World Almanac 1999, so it may or may not be accurate, but CA (and MS) technically has no age limit. The age without consent in CA is 18.

  171. Well, take it or leave it. If you want to save yourself some money, don’t fuck her. Cause you’ll be back here every night for some more. Man, she’s twelve and a half years old. You never had no pussy like that. You can do anything you want with her. You can cum on her, fuck her in the mouth, fuck her in the ass, cum on her face, man. She get your cock so hard she’ll make it explode. But no rough stuff, all right?

    http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0075314/quotes

  172. I honestly never thought I would see so many people taking the position that someone who has pled guilty to sex with 13 year old girl, with credible evidence that he drugged and sodomized her, and who subsequently fled the country, should be let off the hook.

    Yeah, and libertymike’s argument is probably the most bizarre. “The .gov sucks, so let him go!”

  173. I don’t think 30 years would be enough to prevent me from taking retribution if someone raped my daughter at age 13.

    For an example of what I’d do, go watch Taken. I’d make Liam Neison’s character look like a some tool hoping that opening up dialog with the kidnapper would be for the best.

  174. Sex sells. Always has, always will. This was a big story back in the 1970s, was always mentioned whenever Polanski released a film, and is now going through the cycle again. And you were saying something about “now”?

    Yes, but why is this so big in the news cycle right now? People rape 12 & 13-year-olds all of the time. This is just FOX \News trying to take down Hollywood and Europe just like they did with Acorn. I mean really, why is this such a big deal right now?

  175. I mean really, why is this such a big deal right now?

    Because the Swiss finally arrested his ass. If Polanski was sill running around free making bad movies, it would be a blip on the radar. But LA asked the Swiss to arrest him, and they did, so all this is coming back around. Funny timing, but from what I read, LA asked for him in ’05. Just a coincidence.

  176. “Yes, but why is this so big in the news cycle right now?”

    Sorry, Charlie, but celebrity crime (and crime that takes on celebrity status a la Casey Anthony) is not new at all. It is constant. I wonder why Reason feels the need to get into this particular piece of trashy tabloid news. I’m not sure why you’re questioning why this is so big in the news “now” when this type of garbage is on the news 24-7 and has been for years.

  177. “This is just FOX News trying to take down Hollywood and Europe just like they did with Acorn”

    Oh, I get it. Not a very good analogy.

  178. stuartl-

    Where the victim urges more punishment and/or greater exertion of state power, his or her preference should be dismissed. However, where the victim urges less punishment and/or less exertion of state power, his or preference should be honored.

  179. “Because the Swiss finally arrested his ass.”

    The swiss make arrests every day. Does it make the news? Does it make Reason’s H&R? No? Then why is this suddenly a big story right now?

  180. “Oh, I get it. Not a very good analogy.”

    True, but DAMN you were annoying!

  181. “True, but DAMN you were annoying!”

    I guess the parallel is that both involve shitty things (ACORN and Polanski) getting tons of press for being the shitty things they are.

  182. T-

    No, the state of california is bankrupt. Its law enfordement community is out of control. It refuses to obey the wishes of californians relative to medical MJ by permitting the feds to make raids and invade private property.

    What is bizarre is the notion that civilization itself is hanging in the balance. Oh, it is such an outrage that this guy fled 30 some years ago and has escaped the tempermental justice that would have been delivered through a public sector lifer in robes.

    Libertarianism is about blunting the exercise of state power-not egging it on.

  183. I wonder why Reason feels the need to get into this particular piece of trashy tabloid news.

    I suspect that much of Gillespie’s motivation stems from the amount of old/new-media coverage it had already received, and the bizarre/crappy standard of much of it. H&R has always had a major in the evolution and standards of the blogosphere.

    i.e. https://www.reason.com/blog/show/136374.html

  184. If Dick Hoste didn’t exist, someone would need to invent him.

    Isn’t that name missing a few letters?

    I mean, don’t you think his name really ought to be Dick Holster?

  185. I mean really, why is this such a big deal right now?

    Isn’t this the same whine that came out right after the ACORN scandel?

    Whine. Whine. “I’m fucking wrong ,and so fucking proven so, but I don’t want anyone to notice. Why is it such a big story? Why doesn’t people just not pay attention to my total fucking wrongness? I hate life! Why don’t all you meanies stop picking on me! I can’t help it that I was misinformed and fed a bunch of bullshit by the media” Waaaaaaaa!

  186. I don’t know the details of the case, and I don’t want to know them. I trust the US judge who ends up reviewing the case to do justice. However, I have strong opinions about the extradition battle. A refusal to extradite an accused person only makes sense if the country making the request has a corrupt court system that will not hand out justice. The US court system does not fit this category. Polanski should come to America and face the judge.

  187. “Isn’t this the same whine that came out right after the ACORN scandel?”

    Exactly. I was channeling Lamar’s countless Acorn posts, which were esentially, “but why is this small organization in the news everyday???”

    It was truly annoying.

  188. A refusal to extradite an accused person only makes sense if the country making the request has a corrupt court system that will not hand out justice.

    For what it’s worth, a lot of countries won’t extradite to the US if the defendant will face the death penalty. I recall that was an issue in the Einhorn case.

  189. Libertarianism is about blunting the exercise of state power-not egging it on.

    Only when the exercise is illegitimate. California may be a fucked up mess, but a functioning court system is generally considered to be a public good. If you’re going to argue that any exercise of power by the state is illegitimate, then you’re not a libertarian, you’re an anarchist.

  190. The unwashed masses apparently aren’t aware of how charming and brilliant Roman is. There is a sickness at the heart of the entertainment industry. The people defending Pulanski for the sake of his talent are the same ones who condemned Elia Kazan in spite of his. They all seem to be moral idiots

  191. Meta4 | September 29, 2009, 3:01pm | #
    “Nah, the age of consent has been 18 in CA since 1913.”

    Can’t be. Whoopie Goldberg says 14.

    Who the fuck cites Whoopi for anything?

  192. Someone being sarcastic perhaps …

  193. “Who the fuck cites Whoopi for anything?”

    It was sarcasm (though she did make that claim).

  194. Nick-

    If Polanski drugged the girl and subsequently raped her, of course, he is a scumbag who does not merit much sympathy, if any.

    But, as I have argued with respect to the prosecution of accused nonogenerian nazi guards, there must, as a matter of liberty, jutice and decency, come a time when either an accused or even a fugitive, must be let be-even if the fugitive was a rapist and a Hollywood liberal and big fan of government.

    I am also making my points in light of the present state of affairs in California. The state is bankrupt. Its law enforcement community is a disgrace to liberty. The governor is an embarrassment. Good leadership here, imo, requires the egos of law enforcement and those who thirst for “justice” to chill.

  195. I am also making my points in light of the present state of affairs in California. The state is bankrupt. Its law enforcement community is a disgrace to liberty. The governor is an embarrassment. Good leadership here, imo, requires the egos of law enforcement and those who thirst for “justice” to chill.

    Mike, you’ve been a border line pain in the ass for along time. But you have gone way over the cliff this time.

  196. I think everyone would accept that 13 is good age for it. If she had been 17, I would agree with you.

    I think in Poland and France and other parts of Europe it’s 12 and in some Mexican states it’s 9. So not everyone accepts 13.

  197. T-

    I do not buy the proposition that a libertarian must accept public sector monopoly justice in order to be a libertarian. I must have missed that one in the rule book. Is it part of Nolan’s quiz? Rothbard’s writings? Lysander Spooner’s?

    Libertarianism does not preclude the advocacy of the elimination of public sector monopoly justice. Is it a tenet of libertarian philosophy that the state must have a monopoly on the administration of justice? There are many, many libertarians who do not think so.

  198. kinnath-

    How so? Why don’t you address the points on their merits?

    Is it wise for the state of California to pursue this matter given its inability to manage its finances?

  199. BTW, since when does libertarianism stand for the propostition that there must be a state or nation state and that if one argues against that then one is not a libertarian?

  200. Is it wise for the state of California to pursue this matter given its inability to manage its finances?

    One of the few legitimate function of a minimal state apparatus is to enforce the law. California’s fucked up finances do not change that. Nor do California’s fucked up police forces. Nor does the passage of 30 years since this convicted felon fled the jurisdiction.

    Every part of your argument is bullshit.

  201. Why arrested now? Who knows but it makes for lots of good news stories: http://www.newsy.com/videos/polanski_s_31_year_old_problem

  202. BTW, since when does libertarianism stand for the propostition that there must be a state or nation state and that if one argues against that then one is not a libertarian?

    We all know you’re fond of anarchy, let it rest.

  203. Yes, but why is this so big in the news cycle right now?

    Good point. And another thing: why did the press make such a big deal about the murder trials of Phil Spector, Robert Blake, and O.J. Simpson? I’m sure chicks get murdered in L.A. all the time, without the national news making a big deal of it.

    And lots of people get convicted of leaving the scene of an accident. So why such a fuss just because the person who was convicted happened to be Ted Kennedy?

  204. Where the victim urges more punishment and/or greater exertion of state power, his or her preference should be dismissed. However, where the victim urges less punishment and/or less exertion of state power, his or preference should be honored.

    It seems to me that this argument is only valid if the only point of criminal punishment is to address the victim’s concerns. However, there are several other reasons for setting criminal penalties, one of the most important is to prevent other people from committing the crime. I am no fan of the state, but protecting citizens from harm is one of its legitimate roles.

    If you are truly an anarchist, then perhaps you disagree, but that certainly does not invalidate the analogy. It sounds to me like you prefer for the child’s father to castrate Polanski on his own.

  205. kinnath-

    And so we get the government we have in California cuz we gotta go get that fugitive-your income tax/property tax/gas tax burden becoming unbearable notwithstanding.

    No, not every libertarian buys the propaganda that enforcing the law is a “legitimate” function of the state.

  206. It almost makes me think that if Barack Obama pled guilty to statutory rape, people would be making a big deal about *that*, too.

    (But at least there wouldn’t be any mystery about why that was “so big in the news cycle.” In that case, it would obviously be racism.)

  207. stuartl-

    Again, if you are in doubt about what I feel about Polanski, personally, please understand that I think he was a scumbag for drugging and raping the young lady.

    The passage of time does matter. Its not like the guy was a public sector actor, like three cops who gang up and beat the shit out of a guy unfortunate enough to live at the wrong address on another botched drug raid.

    L.A. County has finite resources. It is being beseiged by racist hispanic gangs like MS-13. It has long been beseiged by a police department full of thugs who continue to harass, assault and taser individuals. It continues to permit the feds to invade the property and personal space of those who are mj growers. It has citizens who are fed up with the same old same old public sector corruption and incompetence.

    IOW, there are priorities. Polanski ain’t one of them.

  208. Seamus-

    All of the MSM would exclaim, in unison, as follows:

    1. If the accuser was white, RACISM.

    2. If the accuser was non-white, CONSENT.

  209. Wait a second. Is this supposed to be the work of the Vast Right Wing Conspiracy again? Holy cow, is there nothing they cannot do?

    Just for the record, while I assume Polanski leans left, I don’t actually recall him being involved actively in politics. Being in exile may have something to do with that, or I just may be ignorant about his positions.

  210. “Is it wise for the state of California to pursue this matter given its inability to manage its finances?”

    Justice delayed is justice denied.

    Only a prick would care about the Benjamins.

  211. over 70 film folks have signed a petition asking that Polanski be set free. Among the signatories:

    Michael Mann, Wim Wenders, Pedro Almod?var, Darren Aronofsky, Terry Gilliam, Julian Schnabel, the Dardenne brothers, Alejandro Gonz?lez I??rritu, Wong Kar-Wai, Walter Salles and Jonathan Demme

    Every one of them needs to be asked, are you defending the privileges of a fellow auteur, or are you defending the casting couch as a long cherished institution?

  212. “Wait a second. Is this supposed to be the work of the Vast Right Wing Conspiracy again? Holy cow, is there nothing they cannot do?”

    It was a JOKE! I was spoofing Lamar’s ACORN posts of last week.

  213. What should the line be? 12 is probably too low, 18 is probably too high, (18 || x/2+7) is too complicated. Most US states have decided on 16.

    The age is still arbitrary, due mostly to government’s (and psychology’s) ever-increasing desire to infantilize people. The sates have been raising the age of compulsory education, too. There’s no scientific basis or logic behind the states’ ever-lowering the “legal limit” of alcohol intoxication – we all know .06 is only a matter of years. And these are the same states that voted for prohibition, then voted against it, some of which also voted for tobacco prohibition, then voted against it, then voted for it again.

    There’s no science involved, there’s no reason or logic involved. It’s immaterial – the law is what it is and Polanski pleaded guilty to a lesser charge and that’s what we’ll go by whether we like it or not. My position is and continues to be: no good will ever come from encouraging the judicial system to be a playground for prosecutors when the actual, live-and-capable victim doesn’t want the state to bother anymore. If the victim wanted him caught, I’d say go get ‘im; she’s the one who has to live with the reality. It should be about her, not anyone else; the law limits the amount of revenge she can extract via the courts and I’m fine with that.

    After 30+ plus years of the War On Drugs we know the law has practically zero deterrent capability. Deterrence is a theory on very shaky ground, the theory is used as a post-facto rationalization for one’s emotional response. The lock-him-up-and-throw-away-the-key crowd is as bad as the let-the-great-artist-have-a-mulligan crowd.

  214. It sounds to me like you prefer for the child’s father to castrate Polanski on his own.

    Well, that would remove Polanski’s case from the purview of some ‘public sector lifer in robes’, wouldn’t it? Libertymike seems to think that would be a better outcome all the way around, as long as the public sector monopoly on justice was broken.

  215. It is being beseiged by racist hispanic gangs like MS-13.

    Too fucking bad then, it’s not like there’s any legitimate function for the government to stop them in your little world.

  216. And so we get the government we have in California cuz we gotta go get that fugitive-your income tax/property tax/gas tax burden becoming unbearable notwithstanding.

    You are completely fucking incoherent at this point.

  217. kinnath-

    Please. Incoherent?

    I have advanced the thoroughly libertarian position that the state has no moral foundation upon which to claim that it has the exclusive right to administer justice.

    I have also advanced the thoroughly libertarian position that both those accused of committing a crime and fugitives, after some period of time has elapsed, must be let alone-particularly where, as here, the period of time is more than thirty years, the subject poses no danger or threat to any person, the state is bankrupt and no natural right of any other person will be violated by the state’s refusal to extradite.

    Thus, identify your natural rights that will be violated by failure to extradite? Will you be harmed? Will your property be taken as a direct and proximate cause of the state’s refusal to extradite (we know that your property will continue to be taken anyways)?

    If you argue that the foregoing is incoherent, you are just being lazy, anti-intellectual and childish. You may not like that you can not prove that my positions are inconsistent with libertarian thought and philosophy. You may think that I favor too much anarchy to be considered a libertarian, but that does not mean that you can accurately call my positions fucking incoherent.

  218. kinnath-

    You and Mr. Hoste can take care of that little MS-13 problem.

  219. Holy shit, Asia Argento signed it. Damn, those who want Polanski prosecuted are fucked now.

  220. I think in Poland and France and other parts of Europe it’s 12 and in some Mexican states it’s 9. So not everyone accepts 13.

    The age of consent in France is 15.

    And the answer to the question “why arrest him now?: it’s the first time he’s crossed over into a jurisdiction where the authorities have been willing and able to cooperate with the US.

    The Brits were prepared to arrest him about ten years ago when he was supposed to come there for an award. He called it off at the last minute.

    It’s not like they announce this shit in advance. In order to get the locals to arrest someone they want the US authorities have to get every thing arranged, warrants and various other arrangements have to be in order.

    It’s not like they announce it in advance. They’ve been trying to get him for years. He’s just been out of their reach.

  221. ‘The minute I read the girl’s testimony I was appalled that the Europeans apparantly feel proud of letting this child-rapist run around Europe freely.’

    It’s my understanding that it’s the French government, not generic ‘Europeans,’ who sheltered Polanski all these years. And the Swiss authorities just had him arrested when he entered their country. And I’m not sure whether the French themselves are unanimously supportive of their government on this.

    To the extent there’s European (or French) support for Polanski, I expect it’s a combination of coddling an artist and being anti-American. ‘Those cowboy fundamentalist Americans are persecuting an *artiste* simply because he does not conform to their uptight Puritainism. Oh, how I hate those hypocritical arrogant Americans with their Big Macs, their Wal-Marts and their deodorant . . .’

  222. Polanski has pretty much been travelling freely around Europe. He has a vacation home in Switzerland. He was in Germany making a film this year.

    So you can’t say that it’s just the french who have been excusing his behavior.

    And no, of course that doesn’t mean the general public supports this, but I suspect they havn’t got the facts (their government’s police forces have surely been informed.)

    To the extent there’s European (or French) support for Polanski, I expect it’s a combination of coddling an artist and being anti-American. ‘Those cowboy fundamentalist Americans are persecuting an *artiste* simply because he does not conform to their uptight Puritainism. Oh, how I hate those hypocritical arrogant Americans with their Big Macs, their Wal-Marts and their deodorant . . .’

    Yes, exactly. Except that they are using false stories to confirm their own biases in this case. There’s nothing “puritain” about being against drugging and raping children. The problem is that they willfully choose to believe that the sex was consentual, that the girl was older than she was, and that there was no conviction. Why? So they can have their anti-American biases confirmed.

    The fact that Europeans would rather believe that those American “prudes” want to string him up for having “a love affair with a 15 year old”, than that they are harboring a man who drugged and anallay raped a protesting 13 year old, is what has allowed Polanski to escape justice for so long.

    So you can see how anti-Americanism has contributed, quite directly, to perpetrating a grotesque miscarriage of justice. Can you see why I find that horrifying, disgusting, and appalling? How is this different from how white juries in the old South looked the other way at a white man accused of raping a black teenager? Any European who ignores the facts of the case, and comforts themselves with the thought that it’s all about stupid American prudes is acting JUST LIKE a white southern bigot.

  223. Wow, just when I thought I couldn’t like Dick Hoste any less! What an astoundingly loathsome troll.

    And I agree with kinnath and T., Libertymike, your argument is off-base.

  224. , you are just being lazy, anti-intellectual and childish

    What the-? Holy LoneWacko, Batman!

  225. For Hazel Meade

    As all europeans are clearly exactly the same as each other, that must explain why communism was such a success.

    maybe the vast majority of people in europe have never even heard of him and would consider it so unexceptional that a man would be extradited for raping a 13 year old that they wouldn’t even bother commenting on it.

  226. Polanski accepted a plea agreement for lessor charges — which he probably got, in some part, because of his celebrity status.

    Plea bargains tend to be about costs, more than the perp’s status. The DA would know that Polanski could afford to file appeals. Anyone as rich as he was could probably have made the same deal.

    -jcr

  227. I don’t know if this has been brought up, but…

    Rothbardian Analysis:

    1.) There are no crimes against the State; there are only crimes against individuals.

    2.) The individual that Polanski initiated aggression against seeks no retribution.

    Therefore,

    3.) The state has no right to seek its own retribution.

    1. Rothbard is an anarchist, a pervert, a traitor, a criminal, and deserving of death by torture, after which he should be sent to burn with his master Satan in Hell. This argument demonstrates exactly what’s wrong with all forms of anarchism: lawlessness is inherently evil, as are the lawless anarchists themselves.

  228. So you can’t say that it’s just the french who have been excusing his behavior.

    As I pointed out above, authorities cannot just arrest somebody because he is wanted in another country, they have to have a formal request from that country in hand before they can issue a warrant.

    Several countries have agreed to cooperate with the US before but Polanski has for various reasons decided not to be there when a warrant was in effect. But for obvious reasons none of these were publicized at the time.

  229. Clearly, he knowingly drugged and rape a girl. He should now have the balls to take the punishment.
    He’s not just a rapist, he’s a coward.
    Those standing up for him should step up and place their young children’s names on a hit list distributed to child rapists.
    If they believe it’s okay to drug and rape kids, then they can pony up their own flesh and blood and save the innocent kids and families who don’t think it’s okay.

  230. Do you think Roman Polanski should finally pay for raping a 13 year old girl back in 1977?

    Vote on this Swiss Website, YES or No

    http://www.romanpolanski.ch

  231. With many new announcement about the wizard of oz movies in the news, you might want to consider starting to obtain Wizard of Oz book series either as collectible or investment at RareOzBooks.com.

Please to post comments

Comments are closed.