More on How Many People Showed Up For The Taxpayer March on Washington (AKA the 9/12 Tea Party)?
I've posted here and here about the wild ranges of crowd estimates for Saturday's Taxpayer March on Washington. The low estimate was around 60,000 and the high estimate was a whopping 2 million.
That 2 million figure, reported in an English newspaper, is totally bogus. It stemmed from inflating an already fictive number of 1 million to 1.5 million attributed to ABC News and announced at the rally itself. As I noted earlier today, given that 2 million (or thereabouts) was the number kicked around for Barack Obama's inauguration, there was no way that they crowd on Saturday came close to that magnitude. The Daily Mail, the Brit paper responsible for the 2 million figure, has published a story today claiming "as many as one million people" attended. They'd don't give a source for that estimate.
What about the low estimate, which ABC seems to be sticking by?:
ABCNews.com reported an approximate figure of 60,000 to 70,000 protesters, attributed to the Washington, D.C., fire department. In its reports, ABC News Radio described the crowd as "tens of thousands."
As does stat-geek Nate Silver, who writes:
This was not a small rally. It was also not, in comparison with something like the 2006 pro-immigration protests, a particularly large rally. It was a business-as-usual sort of rally. Mock the protesters at your peril: business as usual suddenly isn't so good for Democrats these days, and the sentiments of the 70,000 people who marched on Washington surely mirror those of millions more sitting at home.
Beyond the bits posted down the blog a bit, here's a schematic from USA Today on how the park police estimates crowds (before they stopped doing that):
When you look at the above, a figure of 250,000, bandied about by some folks who take their crowd math seriously (such as Rand Simberg), starts to seem very plausible.
Schematic courtesy of Moderate in the Middle.
Does it matter if the crowd was 70,000 or 100,000 or 200,000 or more? Probably not so much, but it shouldn't be this difficult to get a basic head count for an extensively photographed and recorded event, should it?
Here's Reason.tv's on-the-scene report of the event. Approximately 6 minutes long.
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Maybe we can get a question added to next year's census: Were you marching in Washington on Sept 12?
Or would it be like asking people if they were at Woodstock, with a lot more people saying they were there than actually were?
Or would most people answer "Get the hell off my lawn"?
Does it matter if the crowd was 70,000 or 100,000 or 200,000 or more?
It matters insofar as it enables us to reverse the statist spin.
Hey, when I mouse over the red dots I don't get any details. Check your Java script.
Patience, Nick, patience. This is going to be the most head counted crowd in history. I think we'll get something like a consensus eventually.
I hope they counted the crowd. Chances are the next attempt on the president's life comes from a nutcase out of that crazy mob.
@ Caged Lion
Yes, I'm sure the US has such advanced surveillance techniques and abilities to not only count people in a "crazy mob" [citation needed] but to be able to determine which of them plans to take a shot at the President.
Oh God, my eyeballs just rolled so hard I snapped my optic nerves! Auggghhh!
Chances are the next attempt on the president's life comes from a nutcase out of that crazy mob.
The "next" attempt? Did I miss one?
I'm pleasantly surprised so many Real Americans,from the Real parts of America, descended into that Cess-Pit of Hell on the Potomac
Tulpa: That's just a plain image of the USA Today graphic, not the whole interactive shebang.
to stop the Death Panels and restore the Principles of Freedom on which this Great Country was founded.
Put that graphic together with the one on the other post on this (the one with the shrunken Orange Bowl), and I get around 500,000 or so.
"I hope they counted the crowd. Chances are the next attempt on the president's life comes from a nutcase out of that crazy mob."
The 'next" attempt?
Stoopid much?
A much fairer way to look at the numbers is to say that "up to 300 million people" attended. If you dispute that, prove where you were. Do you know where your neighbors were? Can you prove they weren't there?
Math, TP style!
they crowd on Saturday
They do, but more pertinently,
they crowed on Saturday
This was all over the news. Yes, to you misinformed, there have been attempts and plots uncovered.
Barack Obama faces 30 death threats a day, stretching US Secret Service
US President Barack Obama is the target of more than 30 potential death threats a day and is being protected by an increasingly over-stretched and under-resourced Secret Service, according to a new book.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/barackobama/5967942/Barack-Obama-faces-30-death-threats-a-day-stretching-US-Secret-Service.html
Awesome, 30 people a day are trying to kill Obama. If he stays in office 10,000,000 days, everyone in the US will have taken a shot at him!
the head count is an interesting gauge in the ongoing inquiry - just how out of touch is the mainstream media... a quarter/half/one million people rally against the government in front of the capitol and they essentially ignore it?
but it shouldn't be this difficult to get a basic head count for an extensively photographed and recorded event, should it?
I just read reason for the last few days and a consensus that the number was about 250,000 seems to be resolving itself....It has not been hard at all.
Anyone who's been to a college football game in a stadium with over 70,000 people knows that the 70,000 estimate is laughable. Just eyeballing it, the number is at least three times that.
You would think there would be some cheap computer software that could get an accurate count (+/- 1,000) from a photograph, though.
When all criticism of the president became racism, it was inevitable that some of it would end up being considered death threats.
That article was so full of halfassed speculation as to be laughable. There wasn't even a credible source given for the number.
Do we trust Nick's ability to accurately perceive differences in the size of the crowds at Obama's inaugural and Saturday's throng?
Ed Schultz is crowing that the event was "a flop." He's going with the low-ball estimate of 60,000. By the time we get to Olbermann it'll be a few hundred, all of them wearing straw hats, missing a few teeth and carrying Obama-Hitler signs.
The reason for the difficulty getting a good head count is that the mall had another very large (larger?) event taking place at the same time. It also didn't get any news coverage.
The high estimates are the ones that merged the two events and then multiplied by wishful thinking. The low ones split the two events and divided by wishful thinking.
Craig-
Good point of reference. I have been to games at The Big House and Pasadena. Do you think any of the MSM reporters have ever been to a game at Ann Arbor or Knoxville?
Question: Why is nobody talking about the rallies that took place in state capitals? The media loved to use a nationwide tally for the pro-immigration May Day rallies a couple of years ago.
I would imagine a nationwide total to be about 750k (counting D.C. and all the state rallies), trumping the May Day rallies and a good number of the anti-war rallies.
@Libertymike: Good point.
I must admit that I am surprised by a couple of things that I have not seen.
1) Pictures of the Black Family Reunion mixed in with pictures of the Tea Party to show that the Tea Party crowd was a diverse cross section of America.
2) People pointing to these two very large crowds (one predominately white, the other predominantly black) existing side by side with no conflicts as evidence that the Tea Party was not a large group of racists.
Abner MacGillicuddy | September 14, 2009, 7:01pm | #
When all criticism of the president became racism....
[sigh]
Ignore it? The media aren't located up your ass. It was covered all day long. The poor, persecuted conservative/christian/teabagger/white race routine is so precious.
"Nearby, a group of well-dressed men and women, calling themselves Billionaires for Wealthcare, who waved signs-"Less Health, More Wealth," "Let Them Eat Advil," "Do No Harm ? To Our Bottom Line"-and sang songs about how health care reform would destroy their posh lives. Not everyone realized it was a joke. One protester sang along with the song, sung to the tune of "The Battle Hymn of the Republic," which had the chorus, "Let's save the status quo." Another protester was baffled. "They spin everything you say!" she said to me. "You think they're on your side, but then they're not!" One volunteer for Tea Party Patriots was convinced they were on his side. "They're for us," he told me. "They're wealthy, so they're thanking everybody for coming."
With what line do you cadge?
This was all over the news. Yes, to you misinformed, there have been attempts and plots uncovered.
Barack Obama faces 30 death threats a day, stretching US Secret Service
US President Barack Obama is the target of more than 30 potential death threats a day and is being protected by an increasingly over-stretched and under-resourced Secret Service, according to a new book.
Death threat =/= "attempt" (your word) on someone's life
i think the obamatons count the truck of methed-out rednecks caught outside denver (for a broken taillight or some shit) who told the pigs they were on their way to kill obama as "an attempt"... that's an attempt on obama's life like his's healthcare plan is an attempt to fix the problems with healthcare
and a big "word" to the fact that the huge gathering of blacks just a few hundred yards away says a lot about the racism of the crowd. to be honest when i walked past the "step competition" on my way home my first thought was "uh oh... this could get ugly" but somehow this crowd of "racists" managed bring themselves to walk by without killing or harassing anyone (and perhaps more impressively, without similar being done to them by the blacks). i heard on the metro that one black protestor actually walked through the step show carrying his anti-obama sign and was greeted with shouts of "how come you ain't stickin up fo yo brotha?"
Just so long as we got rid of that laughable Orange Bowl metric, I'm happy.
"The poor, persecuted conservative/christian/teabagger/white race routine is so precious."
How many of the above actually exist, percentage-wise, in relation to the number of U.S. citizens?
Tony, this "half of America is nothing but racist conservative Christians" routine is wearing VERY goddamned thin. Get a new gimmick.
since when has rascism and rascist comments have been only concerned with "white" and black america?