Che Guevara on Wall Street
My wife and I spent the Labor Day weekend enjoying the delights of New York City. Walking along Wall Street, we were startled when we glanced into the window of the upscale Tourbillon Boutique watch and jewelry shop at 45 Wall Street. Surrounded by pink and green enameled and bejeweled single cigar cases was a glossy humidor adorned with Alberto Korda's romanticized "Guerrillero Heroico" photo of communist thug Che Guevara:
As an added bonus, the humidor is inscribed in silver script with the slogan "Hasta la victoria siempre," which is the title of an adoring 1999 documentary on the life of the Leninist murderer. One part of my mind marvels at capitalism's protean ability to make money from any image, while another part is disgusted by the lack of historical memory that makes that an apparently palatable possibility.
For more on the Che vogue, see my colleague Nick Gillespie's excellent (and disturbing) Reason TV video, "Killer Chic: Hollywood's Sick Love Affair with Che Guevara." Nick asks, "We are rightly horrified by fascist murders. Why aren't we also horrified by communist killers?" Good question.
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I wonder how many screenplays are out there about him that haven’t been produced because it’s hard to overlook his killings and make him a hero. Or, how many screenwriters sat down to tell his story and upon researching their subject, decided he was too horrible? I wonder if I could write a negative account of him and get Hollywood to produce it. Might find willing studios and no one to act in it.
I think it’s a fitting tribute to this murderous scum to memorialize him in such a way that it completely negates everything he believed in. Fuck Che Guevara, yo.
I wonder if there’s a market for Hermann Goering chocolates?
I saw a college student the other day wearing the Che T-shirt and a beret. A Nike beret with the swoosh and the Air Jordan silhouette.
Just a clueless youth brightening up my day.
But, the communists were murdering “for the people”.
Stretchy, they were just breaking eggs to make omelets. For the people.
He’s like Freddy (from Nightmare on Elm Street) for rich people.
I saw a college student the other day wearing the Che T-shirt and a beret. A Nike beret with the swoosh and the Air Jordan silhouette.
I only wish there was some way to enforce the notion to that twit that Che would have likely shot him on sight.
Che was a murderer, but George Washington crossed the Delaware to give tea and crumpets to the Hessians.
WOW-good for you: how did you escape the assult? I deadly awaits your response with great expectaitions
“Che was a murderer, but George Washington crossed the Delaware to give tea and crumpets to the Hessians.”
I don’t recall anyone here claiming Washington doesn’t have blood on his hands.
I don’t recall anyone here claiming Washington doesn’t have blood on his hands.
Nobody here bitches about Washington t-shirts, either.
“Che was a murderer, but George Washington crossed the Delaware to give tea and crumpets to the Hessians.”
Attacking mercenaries employed by the enemy army is just like rounding up ordinary people who happen to have different views and executing them without trial.
Is it National False Equivalency Day already? Stupid iPhone calendar forgot to remind me.
“Attacking mercenaries employed by the enemy army is just like rounding up ordinary people who happen to have different views and executing them without trial.”
I’m sure George Washington always observed due process! He would never tell a lie! And maybe you’re right, and Washington’s actions at Jumonville Glen are more like rounding up and killing ordinary people.
SugarFree,
George Washington is a known Nazi.
“Che was a murderer, but George Washington crossed the Delaware to give tea and crumpets to the Hessians.”
So… According to your revisionist moral equivalency, exactly how many Hessians did George Washington summarily execute after the Battle of Trenton? There were 20 Hessians killed in action at Trenton, which is a far cry from the hundreds Guevara personally ordered to be executed.
Washington’s actions at Jumonville Glen are more like rounding up and killing ordinary people.
According to Wikipedia, they were soldiers in uniform, killed in an ambush.
“So… According to your revisionist moral equivalency, exactly how many Hessians did George Washington summarily execute after the Battle of Trenton?”
Gen. William T. Sherman was a jovial fellow as well.
And maybe you’re right, and Washington’s actions at Jumonville Glen are more like rounding up and killing ordinary people.
Jumonville Glen was an ambush of French military forces. Try again.
“I’m sure George Washington always observed due process! He would never tell a lie! And maybe you’re right, and Washington’s actions at Jumonville Glen are more like rounding up and killing ordinary people.”
By “rounding up and killing ordinary people”, of course, you mean engaging armed French soldiers during hostilities…
“According to Wikipedia, they were soldiers in uniform, killed in an ambush.”
…..during peace time against non-combatants. What do we call that? “War” if you’re American. “Murder” if you’re Che.
“I’m sure George Washington always observed due process! He would never tell a lie! And maybe you’re right, and Washington’s actions at Jumonville Glen are more like rounding up and killing ordinary people.”
You might have a point if by ordinary people you mean French soldiers, and if by Washington’s actions, you mean those of his Indian allies.
“during hostilities”
I think you meant “engaging French officers before the start of hostilities, and starting a war over the murders”.
I live at 37 Wall. That place used to be a Starbucks less than a year ago that shut down when Starbucks closed hundreds of locations in NYC during the height of the recession.
Used to see my fair share of people wearing Che shirts in there when it was a Starbucks…the more things change…
Why engage an idiot who would mention Washington and Guevara in the same foul breath?
Michelle Obama is posting at HnR now…cool.
“Daddy, what did you do during the troll wars?”
“I ignored the useless pieces of shit, Bobby. It was the most effective weapon we had.”
IF YOU CONTINUE STRAINING SO HARD TO PRODUCE SHIT, YOU’LL HAVE A HEART ATTACK AND DIE. LIKE ELVIS.
I think you meant “engaging French officers before the start of hostilities, and starting a war over the murders”.
These were military forces under arms in disputed territory. Washington believed that this was a raiding party – you know, a hostile force – and that his actions were defensive in nature.
Once again, try again.
Once again, try again.
Better yet, don’t. STOP FEEDING THE TROLL PEOPLE
I see I gave Straw Man Now! too much credit. I thought he was bringing up Jumonville Glen because Jumonville was tomahawked by Washington’s Indian ally Tanacharison after the French surrendered. I didn’t realize he was actually trying to equate the ambush with Che’s “tribunals”.
The Nazis had courts.
Americans have courts.
All American courts are Nazi courts.
I love me some William Tecumseh “War is all hell” Sherman. I really do. I wish they had Sherman t-shirts so I could wear one on my next trip to Atlanta.
Nick asks, “We are rightly horrified by fascist murders. Why aren’t we also horrified by communist killers?”
Because national socialists are SOOO different from international socialists that good leftists can try to pull the wool over our eyes and claim that Hitler’s Germany wasn’t really socialism.
Or at least not socialism run by the RIGHT people? (The “left” people?)
While there’s probably some truth to the idea that we whitewash our own heroes and demonize the other guy’s heroes, Washington vs. Che? Really?
So, what do they want for the humidor?
If its not too much, I might buy it for my dogs to piss on.
I wish they had Sherman t-shirts so I could wear one on my next final trip to Atlanta.
FIFY
(I don’t give a shit, but some kid I punched in 8th grade would “have words with you, sir.” No kidding, his name was Bobby Lee.)
“Nobody here bitches about Washington t-shirts, either.”
Has anyone eever seen one? I haven’t.
I worked on Wall Street for more than a decade (well, World Financial Center isn’t excatly on Wall Street, but it was Lehman Bros.) and throughout I had a Che ashtray on my desk (on a bond trading floor). At least I was being ironic.
Oh, and it’s still here on my current desk.
We give Sherman his props here in Michigan.
It’s a really cool memorial.
I like the thought of grinding out my (non-Cuban) cigars on Che’s face. That works for me, I.
I don’t buy Cubans, even when overseas, because every dollar that you spend on a Cuban goes into the Castros’ pockets.
I bet you dont even smoke!
But moreover I never saw that great, deep pockets on the man, but maybe he had a little carriage to hold all that cigardole in
Has anyone eever seen one? I haven’t.
If you did see t-shirts of his patrician, slave-holding, war criminal, revolutionary ass, would you bitch? Be honest, now.
Elemenope,
Weak, man, weak.
@ Citizen Nothing
Demographically, Atlanta has been overrun with carpetbaggers former sons and daughters of the Northern states, so your Sherman shirt might get a few looks, but most of them would be people wondering who that was on your shirt, and why you had such an obviously subversive statement about war.
Now, in rural Georgia, OTOH?
Jesus, did Elemonope just troll on over here on the way back from his latest Grievance Studies lecture at the Student Union? Trolls, BE GONE I SAY!
Has anyone eever seen one? I haven’t.
Maybe a hemp shirt probably worn by someone who also owns a Che shirt. You know, I bet I will see at least one of the latter 10 days from now at Lark Fest in Albany. I may bring a fact sheet to hand out just for fun. I typically only go for the food and the contact high.
Some of these are freaking hilarious…
http://www.che-mart.com/
Weak, man, weak.
Really? He was a slaveholder, an example of perhaps the ultimate violation of freedom humans have yet conceived, but he gets a pass because…why?
Gen. Akbar | September 9, 2009, 3:07pm | #
Jesus, did Elemonope just troll on over here on the way back from his latest Grievance Studies lecture at the Student Union? Trolls, BE GONE I SAY!
ITSATRAP!!!
One part of my mind marvels at capitalism’s protean ability to make money from any image, while another part is disgusted by the lack of historical memory that makes that an apparently palatable possibility.
Capitalism tends to be less retaliatory or revenge oriented and more forgiving then other economic regimes……it is easier to get up after going broke then it is to crawl out of an unmarked grave of a Gulag camp or walk out of an execution cell in La Caba?a….my mind is unmarveled.
No pass for slaveholding, but war criminal, really? Or are you revising the definition to argue that anyone who engages in war is a criminal? This is one of the stupidest moral equivalence arguments I’ve seen in ages, yet I too am guilty of feeding the trolls.
I never said they were equivalent. I said they were both pricks.
To be even more accurate, I pointed out that nobody cries over Washington’s crimes (leaving aside the war element, NOBODY bitches over the slavery; no free pass my ass).
Elemenope,
And every white male back then was a racist, a sexist, and didn’t bathe regularly. There’s a list a mile long of things I don’t approve of that my forebears did. How that’s relevant in comparison to a modern murderer aiming for tyranny is beyond me. For his time, Washington was very liberal and very noble. Can’t say the same about Che.
Frankly, this whole comparison is nuts.
To be more specific there are no real “crimes” specific to capitalism…sure there are property crimes but are you going to tell me vandalism is not illegal in Cuba? I wonder what they did to you in the Soviet Union if you stole a car?
Socialism on the other hand has tons of crimes you can commit against it….many of them have been proven to be punishable by death.
Washington was very liberal and very noble. Can’t say the same about Che.
From my understanding Che’s diaries of his time in Africa are filled to the brim with racist screeds.
What Washington did eventually led to the demise of slavery in the U.S. What Che did eventually led to the enslavement of an entire nation.
What Washington did eventually led to the demise of slavery in the U.S.
This is quite possibly the most ridiculous thing I’ve read today. He gets *no credit* for ending slavery.
Well, you should be the resident expert at recognizing ridiculous statements making the comparison you’re insisting on today. Without Washington and the rest of the Founders focusing so much on individual rights, the path we took might’ve been very different. They were creatures of their own time and maybe weren’t radical enough for our tastes, but they laid the foundation for the freedoms we and many other countries have now. Might as well criticize them for not being kind enough to the environment. That’s just as relevant.
It’s really easy to stand on the shoulders of people like that and mock them for not being as high up as we are.
Am I getting catty? I think that sounded a little catty.
Meow.
Without Washington and the rest of the Founders focusing so much on individual rights, the path we took might’ve been very different
If things were different, they would not be the same. This is true, but barely applicable to what we are talking about. The best you can do to draw a direct line between the founders and the emancipation of the slaves was to say that in the Constitution they cocked up the issue so much as to make a war over it inevitable.
If things were different (i.e. not the same) and the Confederacy had won the Civil War, (not, like, out of the realm of possibility) the path taken would have led nowhere but to the continuation of slavery. So, Washington gets no credit.
It’s really easy to stand on the shoulders of people like that and mock them for not being as high up as we are.
Yes, it is. You know what’s stupider? Worshiping them. That is the amount of deference necessary to ignore their many sins.
Now, normally, I am about taking a complex picture of an individual, and summing up all the boons and banes, intentional or otherwise, in figuring out some sort of historical judgment.
And then it comes to Che, and everyone starts foaming at the mouth. I’m engaging on this not because I think they are particularly comparable on many levels, but because on a more basic level, every freedom fighter is a terrorist, and every revolutionary a scoundrel. We love those that are ours, and hate the others as “dangerous”.
That hypocrisy annoys me. I decided to poke it with a stick today.
I think Che is the wrong poster child for that, but okay. For that matter, Washington probably wasn’t the best example on the other side, either. Jefferson is more rife with contradictions, in my opinion.
Washington’s crime against humanity was crushing the Whiskey Rebellion. 🙂
If things were different (i.e. not the same) and the Confederacy had won the Civil War, (not, like, out of the realm of possibility) the path taken would have led nowhere but to the continuation of slavery. So, Washington gets no credit.
Very unlikely. Slavery is not sustainable….an independent confederacy would have failed very quickly and would have been swallowed up by the economic behemoths to in the north.
Washington is given credit for his classic liberalism which makes institutions such as slavery less likely to persist. The simple fact is that a nation of free people out compete nations of subjects and slaves on every level.
he gets a pass because…why?
He was a man of his times?
He was the only Founder who released his slaves?
He was a good dancer?
Take your pick, dick.
Washington is given credit for his classic liberalism which makes institutions such as slavery less likely to persist.
Washington had little impact on the formation of the Constitution and can take little credit for the classical liberal ideas found therein. If you wanted to credit a single individual for its genius, Madison is your guy.
The simple fact is that a nation of free people out compete nations of subjects and slaves on every level.
I’d love to believe that, I really would. So, how’s our economy doing? How’s China’s?
—–
He was a man of his times?
“His crimes against humanity are excusable because, well, that’s just what people did in those days.”
That’s…idiotic.
He was the only Founder who released his slaves?
Not true. Also Jefferson. And technically, Washington manumitted his slaves in his will on the date of Martha’s death. He died first. Made for a tense couple of years for the wife.
I’ve always found the argument that the Civil War was the inevitable result of the Revolutionary War to be pretty compelling.
Mostly because, without the Revolutionary War, we would have been ruled by England, which managed to outlaw slavery without having a civil war over it.
The simple fact is that a nation of free people out compete nations of subjects and slaves on every level.
I’d love to believe that, I really would. So, how’s our economy doing? How’s China’s?
Not a good comparison. The US is no longer a nation of free people.
You doubt me? Go to a law library and ponder the sheer heft of the US Code and the Code of Federal Regulations.
Washington had little impact on the formation of the Constitution and can take little credit for the classical liberal ideas found therein. If you wanted to credit a single individual for its genius, Madison is your guy.
There was this guy who wrote down this great idea…then this other asshole through his own sweat and blood and initiative actually implemented that idea so he gets ZERO credit for it.
I call bullshit.
I’m not aware of Washington rounding up loyalists and executing them in camps.
It’s try that loyalists did suffer some harassment during and after the revolutionary war, whereupon most of them promptly decamped to Toronto, but this isn’t on nearly the same scale that the communists retaliated against the “bourgeois” after most Marxist revolutions of the 20th century. The mass slaughters of “counter-revolutionaries” under Communist government really don’t have any historical rival except the Holocaust.
“His crimes against humanity are excusable because, well, that’s just what people did in those days.”
That’s…idiotic.
You said “crimes against humanity.” I didn’t.
Putting words in people’s mouths? That’s…dishonest.
I’d love to believe that, I really would. So, how’s our economy doing? How’s China’s?
Are you actually comparing the economy of the confederacy to the economy of US’s current recession?
Seriously?
Are you actually comparing China’s current economy to the economy of Mao’s Great Leap Forward?
Seriously?
Jon Lee Anderson, author of the 800 + page ‘Che Guevara: A Revolutionary Life’, who spent 5 years researching the man:
“I have yet to find a single credible source pointing to a case where Che executed an innocent. Those persons executed by Guevara or on his orders were condemned for the usual crimes punishable by death at times of war or in its aftermath: desertion, treason or crimes such as rape, torture or murder.”
Putting words in people’s mouths? That’s…dishonest.
Slavery: It’s a crime against humanity.
(Says so right on the package. What, you disagree?)
Not a good comparison. The US is no longer a nation of free people.
You doubt me? Go to a law library and ponder the sheer heft of the US Code and the Code of Federal Regulations.
That’s an excellent point.
See this is where El Che messed up …
He should have:
– Bought a peasant girl, made her his slave, then raped her and had her give birth to his child (Jefferson)
– Next Che should have made all the rich oligarchs walk hundreds of miles before leaving the country in a ‘trail of tears’ (Jackson)
– Once his legend was solidified he could send one of his commanders to do a ‘march to the sea’ where he burned out all the govt homes and Batistaites who had been defeated (Lincoln/Sherman).
It’s a shame he didn’t follow the great paths history already laid out for him … then instead of being on the worthless 3 Cuban peso he could be on the U.$. dollar bill !
Nick asks, “We are rightly horrified by fascist murders. Why aren’t we also horrified by communist killers?”
Because the communists didn’t loose WWII.
Che Guevara was no angel, but his actions were a response to the horrible atrocities carried out by the US & client states for so many years. Anyone with the least familiarity with US intervention in Latin America will understand the roots of Che’s actions, and why he is considered a hero throughout the third world.
In addition, Che reviewed the guilty sentences of war criminals and was in charge of pardoning them or not – the same as a U.S. Governor. Does that make them “murderers” if they refuse to commute the sentence? Hardly.
As for killing in war, we pin medals on killers all the time. It just depends on which side of the killing you are on – so grow up and join the real world.
It’s politically blasphemous to say anything positive or even nuanced about Che Guevara around right-wing Americans. Worldwide, however, the loathing of Che is an extreme minority view.
Che was more complex and contradictory a historical figure than some people understand.
However simple minded Americans like their characters to be unambiguous and simple: Good OR Bad; Black OR White; Saint OR Sinner, etc. In reality, things are rarely so simple.
That’s one of the reasons that Hitler or Nazis are so often pulled out in an argument (see Reductio ad Hitlerum & Godwin’s Law): There are relatively few people who embody absolute evil so clearly and readily.
The hysteria and the manic frustration expressed by right-wingers regarding the continuing and growing popularity and iconic status of Che is in itself very revealing. Complexity is not their strong suit. Seeing more than the surface is a little hard for right-wingers. Everyone must fit into the “Superman vs. Lex Luthor” box. Reality is harder to pigeonhole.
Can most conservatives tell you anything at all about Fulgencio Batista? Do they mention the 20,000 Cubans killed by Batista’s mafia based police state? Do they discuss the difference in how Che’s men released all captured enemy soldiers, while Batista’s goons gouged their eyes out and tortured them?
Nah … to a right-winger (the kind that wanted to hand the nuke codes to a half-literate ex beauty queen who believes in witchcraft & a fatherless messianic carpenter zombie) there are only heroes and villains. Just like in their biblical fables they cling to so much.
Can most conservatives tell you anything at all about Fulgencio Batista? Do they mention the 20,000 Cubans killed by Batista’s mafia based police state? Do they discuss the difference in how Che’s men released all captured enemy soldiers, while Batista’s goons gouged their eyes out and tortured them?
The correct answer to a brutal dictator is not a new brutal dictator.
Washington 1, Che 0
Of course, both men have killed and both, Washington and Che Guevara are probably guilty of one or two war crimes (you cant actually control every single soldier all the time), but Che did it in a situation, that was not war at all. Also, if we compare the outcome than we can really judge the character and there Washington beats Che Guevara hands down…
Elmenope: “And technically, Washington manumitted his slaves in his will on the date of Martha’s death. He died first. Made for a tense couple of years for the wife.”
That’s because the slaves belonged to her relatives before he married “up” into her wealthy family. In other words, Washington did not believe they were his to give away. For what it’s worth (which is probably little), he also never “worked” his slaves.
Obviously, to treat people as chattel is a grave wrong, but like others said, he was a person of his time. It isn’t an excusal, but it is an explanation. It was wrong, and he probably knew it was wrong, which is why he freed them. No human being is a plaster saint, and as such, no one is worthy of idol worship, but that doesn’t mean they should be unjustly mischaracterized either.
R C Dean: “Mostly because, without the Revolutionary War, we would have been ruled by England, which managed to outlaw slavery without having a civil war over it.”
That’s because an enormous geographical part of England did not have an economy that was intimately intertwined with the institution of slavery. If the U.S. hadn’t already revolted, I find it highly likely they would have in 1840 when England outlawed slavery.
Walter: “Jon Lee Anderson, author of the 800 + page ‘Che Guevara: A Revolutionary Life’, who spent 5 years researching the man: ‘I have yet to find a single credible source pointing to a case where Che executed an innocent. Those persons executed by Guevara or on his orders were condemned for the usual crimes punishable by death at times of war or in its aftermath: desertion, treason or crimes such as rape, torture or murder.'”
Bullshit. They may have been found “guilty” in one of Che’s notorious kangaroo courts, but most were executed summarily without any due process whatsoever. I would also take the words of a man who writes a (by all accounts) fawning biography of Che with a very large grain of salt.
Skeptic: “Of course, both men have killed and both, Washington and Che Guevara are probably guilty of one or two war crimes (you cant actually control every single soldier all the time)…”
Just because a soldier commits a war crime does not automatically make every commander in his chain of command guilty. They may or may not be negligent, but are not necessarily complicit if they didn’t give the order or know it occurred. I am not saying it is inconceivable, but I have yet to see anything reliable show that Washington ever acted in contravention of the laws of war. The fact is, Che’s actions–about 300 executions of soldiers and civilians without due process, which were war crimes by any definition–are well documented.
Che Guevara is a worldwide hero …
this site on the other hand is flush with douchebags who were born on 3rd base, and think they hit a triple.
Q: Who is John Galt?
A: A Giant A$$hole
I wish America had a Che Guevara that would put Glenn Beck, Sean Hannity and the other Nazi’s against the execution wall.
“Fuego!”
I am glad that as intelligent people you all have free will to think for yourselves. El pueblo unido jam?s ser? vencido.
Please don’t insult Che he is not a war criminal unlike so many American’s since the beginning of the states right up to today.
P.s.
Read a little more, both sides. Then consider history is written by the victors.