Obamacare

Here, Obama, Let Me Google Some Health-Care Reform Alternatives For You

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Obama on the web

Does Obama know how to use a web search engine? Sometimes I wonder. In a speech delivered to the AFL-CIO yesterday, the president took after opponents of health-care reform, accusing them of being obstructionists who lack solutions:

And because we're so close to real reform, the special interests are doing what they always do—trying to scare the American people and preserve the status quo. But I've got a question for them: What's your answer? What's your solution? The truth is, they don't have one. It's do nothing.

I have no problem with the notion that there are some Republicans who are playing the health-care debate primarily for political advantage—blocking reform first and foremost to deal Obama a major political blow. But it's simply not true that reform opponents haven't offered solutions.Here's what I could come up with in about two minutes on the Google:

In The Wall Street Journal, John Mackey suggested eight reforms that would make health insurance more competitive, more affordable, and more responsive to consumer demand. Among his proposals: Allowing individuals to buy insurance across state lines, separating insurance from employment by doing away with the employer tax advantage, and posting prices so that consumers can make smarter, more cost-conscious decisions on routine health-care.

Here at Reason, Ron Bailey argued that American health-care is plagued not by too little insurance, but by too much, and that by paying directly for more routine care rather than letting insurance insulate patients from costs, we could bring down costs and create a more functional health-care market.

At Forbes, the Reason Foundation's Shikha Dalmia wrote about how the American Medical Association, with the help of Congress, helps limit the country's doctor supply, thus keeping prices artificially high. 

In The New York Times, Ramesh Ponnuru explained why mandatory universal coverage isn't likely to be the best way to solve our health-care problems and suggested, instead, that we break the link between employment and coverage and drop state coverage mandates.

There's more out there from smart policy analysts like Arnold Kling and Michael Cannon, as well as from business-minded thinkers like Regina Hertzlinger and David Goldhill.

No, not all of these essays and books come with thousand-page pieces of legislation attached (thank goodness!), but every one of them offers innovative ideas for how to administer health-care and how to pay for it—ideas that, by and large, Obama has ignored.

Why? It's impossible to say for sure, but I wonder if it doesn't have something to do with the fact that all of the ideas mentioned above would change health-care in ways that empower individuals, rely on markets, and emphasize patient choice and preference rather than government authority. No matter what the reason, however, it's just not true that reform opponents aren't proposing solutions. What seems a lot more likely is that Obama just isn't listening.

Read even more about what ails U.S. health care in Reason's health-care archive.

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93 responses to “Here, Obama, Let Me Google Some Health-Care Reform Alternatives For You

  1. But it’s simply not true that reform opponents haven’t offered solutions

    Heh. Democrats are the party of “No.”

  2. Cato has a whole section of its site dedicated to healthcare reform. And what it has to say makes a bazillion times as much sense as anything that Congress or the White House has proposed.

    Went to Whole Foods again this weekend. Yeah, I’m defying the man.

  3. Obama’s not alone in his belief that there are no other solutions on the table. I see and hear people all the time who accuse me of simply trying to make the President fail. It’s like they try to be ignorant.

  4. We’ve never been this close. We’ve never had such broad agreement on what needs to be done. And because we’re so close to real reform, the special interests are doing what they always do — trying to scare the American people and preserve the status quo.

    But I’ve got a question for them: What’s your answer? What’s your solution? The truth is, they don’t have one.

    Tell a lie often enough and loud enough and a whole lotta folks are gonna believe you.

    That’s right, Obama is, like 99.44% of politicians, a skilled and unrepentant liar.

    For example …

  5. “the special interests are doing what they always do-trying to scare the American people and preserve the status quo. … What’s your solution? The truth is, they don’t have one.”

    So, logically, Cato and all the other solution-mongers are not “special interests”.

  6. I’m sorry, but if you have to lie about the positions of your opposition, you’d don’t really believe in your position. . .or perhaps even have one of your own.

    Let’s frame this debate properly–socialize medicine, leave things as they are, deregulate medicine and health insurance. Choose one of these and let’s discuss.

  7. innovative ideas for how to administer health-care and how to pay for it-ideas that, by and large, Obama has ignored.

    Why?

    Perhaps because Obama is much less interested in administering and paying for health care, and primarily concerned with expanding dependency in the name of enlarging the permanent Democratic constituency and his own power.

    the special interests are doing what they always do-trying to scare the American people and preserve the status quo

    Actually, the big corporate special interests (AARP, the AHA, the AMA, Big Pharma) all have seats at the table and are helping to draft the current bills. So, another lie.

  8. The left have convinced themselves that everyone who disagrees with them is crazy. They don’t know how to engage and debate the other side. So, they can’t learn from the other side.

    Go talk to any committed leftist and you will find a pretty sorry state of affairs. Anyone who doesn’t agree with them just gets all their thinking from Rush or I guess now Glenn Beck. It is pathetic really.

  9. In the “Spot On Analysis” category, RC Dean wins the thread…

  10. Obama is a lying cunt.

  11. Don’t forget the Shadegg/Hoekstra op-ed in the WSJ on Friday. Some really good stuff in there, from an unexpected source.

  12. Obama is … primarily concerned with expanding dependency in the name of enlarging the permanent Democratic constituency and his own power.

    I was a Republican most of my life, and I never bought this. The pure villainy angle is far less probable than the reality that Obama actually believes this is good for America, and is willing to be deceitful to reach his ends. He certainly has company.

    Otherwise, was is all the power-stockpiling for? The really leftist things they want to do?

    1. Some people just want to expand their power, there’s nothing they want to DO with the power other than expand it. I think Obama just wants to make his insurance company buddies happy and make it look like he’s being competent so he can be reelected. Really that’s all there is to him.

  13. I have no problem with the notion that there are some Republicans who are playing the health-care debate primarily for political advantage-blocking reform first and foremost to deal Obama a major political blow.

    I have no problem with this notion either. In fact, I look at it as a feature, not a bug.

    The best thing that happened to Bill Clinton was the failure of Hillary’s plan. (History notes it as Hillary’s failure, not Bill’s) Once Bill got set back by a congress controlled by his own party, he proceeded to do little for the next 8 years (again, a feature and not a bug) and history records his presidency for the most part as an “average +” and relatively successful. If Obama quits now, he’ll be able to sit back do nothing – oh, how I wish he’d do nothing – the economy will eventually do what the economy always does – recover – and Obama might have a chance in 2012.

  14. Does Obama know how to use a web search engine?

    Racist!
    🙂

  15. “Perhaps because Obama is much less interested in administering and paying for health care, and primarily concerned with expanding dependency in the name of enlarging the permanent Democratic constituency and his own power.”

    If that is true, and it may be, then Obama is insane. What the hell good does it do to have power over a country that has gone bankrupt?

  16. What the hell good does it do to have power over a country that has gone bankrupt?

    Who cares if the country is bankrupt, as long as you’re personally enriched?

  17. The pure villainy angle is far less probable than the reality that Obama actually believes this is good for America, and is willing to be deceitful to reach his ends.

    FrBunny @ 12:36pm

    You may be correct that Obama may actually believe what he says – the scary thought that that is – but, I am sure that the increased ability of unions to organize within a monolithic federal healthcare industry and the size of the tithe due to the Democratic Party from a unionized healthcare work force has not escaped some within the Democratic Party.

  18. “Who cares if the country is bankrupt, as long as you’re personally enriched?”

    If Obama really thinks that way, he has stepped into Bond Villian territory. I think it is more likely, he is just amazingly stupid and naive and actually thinks socialized medicine will work and fix the economy.

  19. Look, I’m not looking for evil conspiracies under every rock, but the Democratic leadership knows what their base is and what they have to do to expand it. The GOP is the same with their base.

    In other words, neither Obama nor Congress is doing this for the good of the country. They’re doing it for the good of their party. They may think that the country benefits by them being in power–doubtlessly they do think that–but it’s a secondary consideration.

  20. Pro,

    Next you are going to tell me that Democrats only favor immigration because Hispanics tend to vote for Democrats and that if that ever changed the Dems would be in favor of shooting people crossing the Mexican border. I for one am shocked by the assertion.

  21. Ya know… there was an article in Mises a while back, or maybe on the blog about “Unintended Consequences” being so widely and easily known by this point that one has to wonder if they are, in fact, “Intended”.

    Minimum wage rates get raised and now we have the highest rate of Teenage unemployment in the history of recorded statistics (since I believe 1948), and yet they still make no connection between min. wage and unemployment for unskilled, young & marginalized workers.

    50 years of studies clearly show the link, logic and basic math tell you it’s inevitability, and economists even warned of that result when they were talking about raising the min. wage…. yet they do it anyway. So either they’re banking on being re-elected by criminally stupid people who are easily manipulated into thinking that politicians are doing things in the people’s interest, or they really are that evil.

  22. Lying? No, No, No. Parse the words please.
    “they have no solutions.” Of course they don’t, they have “ideas,” none of which in Obamessiah’s world will work. Therefore, they aren’t “solutions.” This is a far more slippery character than the run-of-the-mill political types we deal with in our congressional districts.

  23. “50 years of studies clearly show the link, logic and basic math tell you it’s inevitability, and economists even warned of that result when they were talking about raising the min. wage…. yet they do it anyway.”

    No. It is that both the politicians and the voters who vote for them who are criminally stupid. You can find lots of people who, despite all of the evidence to the contrary, swear that raising the minimum wage does nothing to supress employment. People see and think what they want to evidence be damned.

  24. “But I’ve got a question for them: What’s your answer? What’s your solution? The truth is, they don’t have one. It’s do nothing.”

    Implicit in all that is also the notion that his defintion of the “problem” is an empirically established fact (it’s not) and that there can be no dispute about his ideological postion that healthcare is a “right” and universal coverage has to be the goal (there can be).

  25. “they have no solutions.” Of course they don’t, they have “ideas,” none of which in Obamessiah’s world will work.

    That’s actually a brilliant distinction.

    Still, I’m conflicted between the disgust of his message and the fine line you cut between the assumption of what “solution” means and the message that there is no opposition to the plan so shut up and elect me emperor.

    I’m not sure whether to orgasm or vomit.

  26. I’m not sure whether to orgasm or vomit.

    Why not do both?

  27. I am so not clicking that link at work, TAO.

  28. TAO,

    I’m offended that the 2nd hit on Google conflates Emetophilia with Sialophilia and Mucophilia.

  29. I am not clicking it ever. I can’t imagine not regretting it.

  30. Perhaps because Obama is much less interested in administering and paying for health care, and primarily concerned with expanding dependency in the name of enlarging the permanent Democratic constituency and his own power.

    So, Obama didn’t want to run an auto company in that “aw shucks” sort of way, even though is doing just that, but he has no problem running an insurance company?

  31. I’m offended that the 2nd hit on Google conflates Emetophilia with Sialophilia and Mucophilia.

    Okay, I’ll regret this later, but Sialophilia?

  32. No T. Don’t ask. Save yourself.

  33. In the future, people stop clicking on links altogether. This destruction of the utility of the so-called World Wide Web was laid at the feet of two people: SugarFree and one Viking Moose person.

  34. I think Gilbert Martin has the right answer here.

    When Obama says, “They have no solutions…” what he MEANS is “They have not proposed any policies that will provide universal health care coverage and that will completely break any link between how much health care you consume and how much you pay.”

    The criteria Obama is applying to the term “solution” eliminate from consideration any ideas other than leftist ones.

  35. Sialophilia
    Fetishistic sexualization of saliva; spit play

  36. Fetishistic sexualization of saliva; spit play

    Oh. I feel better. That’s relatively benign.

  37. So he can’t use Google, and the word “legalization” is not in his vocabulary. Maybe this guy just isn’t as smart as we were told.

  38. This destruction of the utility of the so-called World Wide Web was laid at the feet of two people: SugarFree and one Viking Moose person.

    I think Naga should be on that list for his unprecedented Rickrolling.

  39. Try again…when are we going to get a preview button?

    This destruction of the utility of the so-called World Wide Web was laid at the feet of two people: SugarFree and one Viking Moose person.

    I think Naga should be on that list for his unprecedented Rickrolling.

  40. If that is true, and it may be, then Obama is insane.

    And?

    What the hell good does it do to have power over a country that has gone bankrupt?

    Power is its own reward to these people. In any event, no matter how poor the country, the powerful are always rich. Remember the Iron Law:

    Money and power always find each other.

  41. JW,

    We’re not allowed to criticize Naga, who founded his own religion.

  42. T,

    That’s relatively benign.

    Tell that to the goat.

  43. Yeah, but it went out with the great Star Wars migration of 2582.

    Hey now, Prol 2178, you’re not tampering with past events or anything like tha

  44. Sorry, I’m Pro Libertate 2781. Me and my 2178 self aren’t on speaking terms.

  45. So when y’all are talking about deregulating health care, are you saying I should be able to walk into a drug store and buy amphetamines over the counter so I can stay awake at work? Would the pharmacist be required to ask for a script, or just recommend that I see a doctor first, and then hand over the drugs?

  46. So when y’all are talking about deregulating health care, are you saying I should be able to walk into a drug store and buy amphetamines over the counter so I can stay awake at work?

    I’d have no problem with that. As an incremental step, though, that’s down the road a ways.

  47. Me and my 2178 self aren’t on speaking terms.

    They had a bad break-up. Dating yourself is not easy if you are filled with self-loathing.

  48. Self-loathing? No. Self-loath-ing. Yes.

  49. I think Naga should be on that list for his unprecedented Rickrolling.

    I thought Rickrolling had plenty of precedent?

  50. ProL 2781–Yes, of course, that was a typo on my part in 2009 in timeline 6a93. Unfortunately, in 1937, you impregnated my grandmother before my grandfather could and well, you know. Thanks a lot horn dog.

    That’s OK, though. This timeline has me hooked up with Salma Hayek AND Morena Baccarin.

  51. Not sure it will wrk out or not since other nations under same type of system say it’s horrible…it should be more restrained so not just anyone can get access from hard working tax payers dollars??? I don’t want anyone to take food out of my mouth and give it to someone who is sitting around doing nothing-or should you/I???

  52. Fetishistic sexualization of saliva; spit play

    This must be a generational thing because back in the day, a blow job didn’t mean the chick spat all over your dick and drooled all over the carpet. The old porn stars had class and swallowed.

  53. The Man Who Folded Himself by David Gerrold, the guy who ripped off Heinlein to create tribbles.

  54. Robot Salma/Morena, Virtual Avatar Salma/Morena, or Clone Salma/Morena?

    I’m still married to the original Mrs. Libertate, though, of course, we are actually Star Children now and lack corporeal substance.

  55. I thought Rickrolling had plenty of precedent?

    Not at his level. As ProL 2781 can tell you, his wanton actions caused a great uproar and the passage of a 2014 federal law that expanded the death penalty to include this crime, which President Biden quickly signed, but not before remarking how he much regrets this, seeing as he liked Rick Astley’s music so much.

  56. Robot Salma/Morena, Virtual Avatar Salma/Morena, or Clone Salma/Morena?

    Stepford Salma/Morena! Don’t tell me that your time still has sentient females?

  57. The Man Who Folded Himself by David Gerrold, the guy who ripped off Heinlein to create tribbles.

    So you can make a career rewriting Heinlein?

  58. Our females are sentient, carnivorous and kill us after mating.

    All that, and they still haven’t lost any fucking weight.

    *Autotranslation services by GoogleCrossTime

  59. All of those solutions rely on markets and “profit” which is evil, and therefore those solutions are silly and don’t pass the “argument from incredulity” test. Therefore they amount to nothing and aren’t even worth talking about.

    Because making profit from someone’s health problems is evil and must be stopped!

    And if that means innovation stops, well we’ll have the government fund innovation! What could go wrong?

  60. So you can make a career rewriting Heinlein?

    Yes, as ably proven by both John Varley and John Barnes.

  61. Our females are sentient, carnivorous and kill us after mating.

    Oh god, I remember that time, and the pyschic screams that we were powerless to do anything against. ugh.

    Fortunately, the Savior Hasselhoff freed us from such servitude with his visionary melding of mind and machine.

  62. Don’t tell me that your time still has sentient females?

    What, they’re sentient? Goddammit, nobody ever tells me anything!

  63. So when y’all are talking about deregulating health care, are you saying I should be able to walk into a drug store and buy amphetamines over the counter so I can stay awake at work?

    You mean, as opposed to dumping coffee down your gullet so you can stay awake at work? Sure, why not?

    That scenario isn’t even on the table though.

  64. Caption Contest!

    “So…is that part where the porn comes out?”

  65. Just saying, if the root of the problem is doctor licensing, then be prepared for the consequences when you open the floodgates.

  66. In a superhuman effort to re-hijack the thread:

    Obama and his ilk are neither stupid nor insane. They merely learned their ethics and politics at the knee of such as Alinskey.

    They truly believe that socialism/class warfare is right and proper, have a bottomless ability to deny reality and engage in whim worship, and are pragmatic to the nth degree (have no issue with the ends justifying the means).

    The concept of killing the goose that lays the golden eggs does not register with them. They artfully evade the question “paid for, by whom?”

  67. Care to tell us what you think those consequences might be, triangleman?

    I’m having a hard time seeing any that are worse than they are now, frankly. And the potential for improvements.

  68. ~ THE LOUD LAUGH OF SATAN WAS HEARD IN THE PEOPLES HALLS OF U.S. CONGRESS AND AMERICAN RELIGIOUS LEADERS HAVE TURNED THEIR HEADS,CLOSED THEIR EYES AND SHUT THEIR EARS IN FEAR ~

    THIS OLD WORLD ORDER OF ABUSE AND NEGLECT OF OUR POORER AMERICANS NEEDS ENLIGHTENED POLITICAL MINDS AND HEARTS TO VIEW GOD DIFFERENTLY THEN $$$?. NO MATTER WHAT THEIR POLITICAL PARTY AFFILIATION ???

    WHEN WILL OUR WEALTHY ELITE AMERICANS ABATE THEIR ASSAULT ON POORER AMERICANS WITH THEIR MONETARY CONTROL OF OUR IVORY TOWER U.S. CONGRESSIONAL LEADERS OF THE NEW WORLD ORDER ???

    THERE ARE NOT MANY MORE DISTRACTIONS LEFT WHICH ARE AVAILABLE FOR OUR WEALTHY ELITE AMERICANS TO HIDE BEHIND IN NOT TAKING PROPER CARE OF ALL OUR AMERICANS IN A HUMANE FASHION !!!

    RALPH NADER ATTEMPTED TO EDUCATE AMERICAN VOTERS ABOUT U.S. CORPORATE POWER IN AMERICA AND HOW THEY CONTROL OUR CONGRESSIONAL PEOPLE THROUGH THEIR POCKET BOOK (POLITICAL DONATIONS). * WITHOUT THE DOUGH $$$ THESE U.S. CONGRESSIONAL LEADERS OF THE FREE WORLD DO NOT GET RE~ELECTED TO CONGRESS.*TO STAY IN POLITICAL OFFICE IN AMERICA,ONE HAS TO BARTER YOUR VOTES IN CONGRESS AND REPRESENT POWER INTERESTS IN RETURN FOR THE BUCK$.

    POORER AMERICANS HAVE NEVER HAD THE $$$ LOBBY TO INFLUENCE THIS CORRUPT POLITICAL CONCEPT (of horse trading political votes for political contributions) TO ACHIEVE PROPER HEALTH ~CARE OR LEGAL REPRESENTATION FOR ALL OUR MIDDLE ~ CLASS AND WORKING POOR AMERICANS.

    AMERICAN IVORY TOWER U.S.CONGRESSIONAL LEADERS OF THE FREE WORLD HAVE PASSED FEDERAL LEGISLATION IN WASHINGTON DC TO SPEND 50 BILLION AMERICAN TAX $$$ ON THE INTERNATIONAL FIGHT AGAINST AIDS OVER THE NEXT FIVE YEARS WHILE THEIR OWN AMERICAN CITIZENS ARE BEING TOLD BY THIS SAME U.S.CONGRESS THAT NATIONAL HEALTH CARE AND PROPER LEGAL REPRESENTATION FOR MIDDLE CLASS AND WORKING POOR CITIZENS IS UNAFFORDABLE.

    *** WEALTHY ELITE AMERICANS (WHO ARE ONLY 1% OF OUR USA POPULATION) SADLY ALSO CONTROL HOW OUR U.S.CONGRESS SPENDS THEIR BUDGET TRILLION$ AND HAVE OBVIOUSLY FOUND MORE WORTHY INTERNATIONAL CITIZENS THEN OUR OWN DESPERATE AND NEEDY POOR TO ASSIST !!!

    ~Poorer Americans Nationwide only get 400 million $$$ per year for legal representation allocated them by CONGRESS~

    Middle Class and Working Poor Americans are unable to afford proper legal representation in their Civil, Criminal and Family Courts of law all across America causing tremendous hardships nationwide,but these great minds and callous hearts in our American Congress have found others Worldwide more needy then their own citizens who are being falsely incarcerated,wrongfuly executed,losing their homes or apartments,losing child custody or visitation with their children etc? Not being afforded proper legal representation by our U.S. Congress has created a total breakdown of the American judicial system for our poorer Americans because the our U.S. Courts punish all of us little people if we are not assisted with proprer legal counsel.

    *It is a known fact that our average Middle Class and Working Poor Americans without proper legal representation in all of our American Courts of law lose their legal cases to the better financed who are able to afford lawyers.

    Lawyers For Poor Americans is now actively in the hunt for International Countries and Leaders Worldwide to help raise 5 Billion Dollar$ for our slighted poorer Americans who have had their own American Congress turn their backs on their desperate needs in not affording them proper legal representation.

    Troy Davis and Mumia Abu ~ Jamal are 2 perfect examples of American citizens who never had proper legal representation or defense investigations afforded them by our U.S. Congressional Leaders Of The Free World in their initial criminal trials in (Georgia and Pennsylvania) who might very well have to pay the ultimate price of possibly being completely innocent and falsely executed in the near future. These two poorer Americans are among tens of thousands of legal cases nationwide that never were afforded proper legal representation or proper defense investigations at their initial trials??**We the public really have no idea if these men are innocent or guilty until they both are given fair legal representation at their new future trials.

    Improper murder trials and needless deaths due to the lack of healthcare take place in Third World Countries all the time. *** Why should average Middle~Class and Working Poor Americans in the Wealthiest Country Of The World be treated as if they are living a Third World Life Style ??

    This is the first of many www International pleas by Lawyers For Poor Americans for other leaders and countries to help raise the needed monie$ to correct these blatant injustices that have been inflicted on poorer Americans for the last few decades. Lawyers For Poor Americans has many other written articles that can be viewed with any www search engine by our name or our telephone number.

    Lawyers For Poor Americans is a www lobby group of volunteers that sing out about the decades old neglect,abuse and injustices being inflicted on our poorer Americans that have become Crimes Against Humanity issues for the International World Court to investigate.

    lawyersforpooreramericans@yahoo.com
    (424-247-2013)

  69. An Open Message to Senator Snowe and Other Unprincipled Pragmatists in Congress:

    As Congress “waters down” health care reform to find bipartisan support, remember this:

    WATER + POISON = POISONOUS WATER

    A sufficient reason to vote against PelosiObamaReidCare (PORC) is the poisonous fact that it would violate the unalienable rights of patients, doctors, and business owners by 1) forcing people to buy health insurance; 2) forcing employers to provide health insurance for employees; 3) forcing groups (wealthy, business owners, etc.) to pay for the health insurance of other groups; 4) forcing future generations to pay for the health care of previous generations; 5) forcing insurance companies to sell, and employers and patients to buy, policies that cover specific conditions; 6) forcing healthier/younger adults to pay higher premium rates to subsidize premiums for less healthy/older adults; and 7) setting up a bureaucracy to control the private health care choices made by patients and doctors.

    PORC is flatulent fascism.

    The “pull the trigger” version of PORC just puts more glossy red lipstick on a fascist pig.

    Congressional supporters for “PORC, The Fascist Pig” will be given pink slips!

    Here are some “DO’s” for Health Care Reform:

    Do remove legal and regulatory barriers in order to increase the supply of, and competition among, private insurers, drug companies, physicians, and other health care providers.

    Do find ways to allow and encourage insurers to compete across state boundaries.

    Do find ways to limit frivolous law suits against doctors.

    Do find ways to allow patients, doctors, and business owners to sue ERISSA-protected insurers for their malfeasance.

    Do find incentives for insurance companies to offer coverage for pre-existing decisions.

    Do make Medicare compensate health care providers at market rates so that they stop cost-shifting.

    Dr. Gregory Garamoni
    Doctors on Strike for Freedom in Medicine
    http://www.doctorsonstrike.com

  70. ignoring the spam…

    Isaac B – You have to admit that quacks would have a field day and cause deaths by misdiagnosing and mistreating their patients. And the drug abuse would be huge if you could just get a script from anyone or no one for any given narcotic or amphetamine or whatever. The costs would probably be too high, or at least too visible, for society to tolerate and prohibition/regulation would come back with a postmodern vengeance.

  71. Triangleman,

    You may be confusing lack of AMA/control over licensing or at least, competitive licensing (AMA + other medical organizations, like the American Cancer Society, etc.) with “zero” licensing. Just because we don’t want government doing something like licensing doesn’t mean it’s not a bad idea for private organizations to do it.

  72. Don’t forget the Shadegg/Hoekstra op-ed in the WSJ on Friday. Some really good stuff in there, from an unexpected source.

    Rep. Shadegg’s pretty good, as far as politicians go, from a libertarian point of view. Obviously not perfectly, certainly, but I’d take the Shadegg-Pence wing of the party over others.

  73. Just because we don’t want government doing something like licensing doesn’t mean it’s not a bad idea for private organizations to do it.

    The only argument against private licensing that makes sense at all is an argument that private licensing groups leads to government granted monopolies on said licensing to said private body. Yeah, it’s a slippery slope argument, but there’s some truth to it.

  74. Pro Libertate 2781 | September 8, 2009, 2:51pm | #
    JW,

    We’re not allowed to criticize Naga, who founded his own religion.

    As admirable as that may be, I have at least two under my belt and they are diametrically opposed. In the last few weeks, Tony was handed a flyer to one, and MNG was handed a flyer to the other. In a generation it will be the greatest puppet dance since the Stalin/Hitler pack.

  75. “What the hell good does it do to have power over a country that has gone bankrupt?”

    Farewel happy Fields
    Where Joy for ever dwells: Hail horrours, hail
    Infernal world, and thou profoundest Hell
    Receive thy new Possessor: One who brings
    A mind not to be chang’d by Place or Time.
    The mind is its own place, and in it self
    Can make a Heav’n of Hell, a Hell of Heav’n.
    What matter where, if I be still the same,
    And what I should be, all but less then hee
    Whom Thunder hath made greater? Here at least
    We shall be free; th’ Almighty hath not built
    Here for his envy, will not drive us hence:
    Here we may reign secure, and in my choyce
    To reign is worth ambition though in Hell:
    Better to reign in Hell, then serve in Heav’n.
    But wherefore let we then our faithful friends,
    Th’ associates and copartners of our loss
    Lye thus astonisht on th’ oblivious Pool,
    And call them not to share with us their part
    In this unhappy Mansion, or once more
    With rallied Arms to try what may be yet
    Regaind in Heav’n, or what more lost in Hell?

    “You may be confusing lack of AMA/control over licensing or at least, competitive licensing (AMA + other medical organizations, like the American Cancer Society, etc.) with “zero” licensing. Just because we don’t want government doing something like licensing doesn’t mean it’s not a bad idea for private organizations to do it.”

    Wait, is AMA influence on licensing bad (cuz they restrict supply of doctors) or good (cuz they’re a private organization setting standards)? I’m so confused!

  76. “The only argument against private licensing that makes sense at all is an argument that private licensing groups leads to government granted monopolies on said licensing to said private body.”

    Provided there’s no government backing forcing anyone to hire, employ or patronize one licensing organization over any other – or even any licensing organization at all, that’s a slippery slope people will have to live with.

    An anarchic society has the same slippery slope, even without a government as one licensing org. could take over all others. I’m not really worried.

    And to “Anonymous”:

    The AMA is bad because 1. they restrict the supply of doctors and 2. far from being a “private” organization – which would imply that my association with them and yours is entirely voluntary and would be easy to opt out of (by for example hiring a nurse or a midwife or an EMT directly to treat my flu), the AMA has the explicit backing & funding of Congress, enforcing their licensing limitations and the number of spots & financing available to prospective med. school applicants.

    If they were actually a truly private organization, there would be competition among them for medical licensing by other such private organizations. However, they have a government-granted monopoly, which is a horse of an entirely different color.

  77. triangleman | September 8, 2009, 7:16pm

    Sorry, but in your comment you have made too many assertions that have no foundation.

    Or to the extent that there possibly is a foundation, it’s irrelevant.

    By what right do you claim that it’s any of your business whether anyone “abuses” “any given narcotic or amphetamine or whatever”?

    You’re obviously new here or else you’d realize that self-ownership prevails here. What people choose to use or “abuse” is their business, not yours.

    What profession anyone chooses to practice is his or her business, not yours. If anyone fails to properly evaluate the qualifications of any professional he or she consults that is his or her problem, not yours.

  78. GOP Congress members have introduced 3 health care reform bills since May:

    http://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/52896

  79. ‘Heh. Democrats are the party of “No.” ‘

    Certainly NOT the party of KNOW!!!

    Wilful ignorance prevails!! Obamacare is mostely about control. The thugs from Chicago want to control everything.

  80. I think we should leave obama alone and let the damn guy do his job come on peoples.

  81. I thought his job was to uphold the Constitution and protect the liberties of the American people?

    Cause he seems pretty disinterested in that.

  82. Anyone who doesn’t agree with them just gets all their thinking from Rush or I guess now Glenn Beck.

    I’m sure it’s only because Glenn Beck’s audience is 1000 times bigger than that of this magazine!

  83. Another good one out there is in the form of an article in this month’s The Atlantic (of all places). For anyone who cares to check it out, here’s the link:

    http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/200909/health-care

    It’s a very long article, but it is also very thorough in its summation of the problems inherent in the current system. And at the end Goldhill gives some ideas for possible solutions (some of which aren’t quite as free market as most of us would like, but still a good shot I think).

  84. Sorry for being a redundant jerk. Suderman cites the Goldhill article above. My bad.

  85. BTW – What the fuck is this “Lawyers for Poor Americans” garbage all about. There’s like 12 paragraphs of garbage posted in the comments by these numbskulls. Seriously?

  86. * THE FINE ART OF DENYING 45 MILLION AMERICANS HEALTH~CARE IN OUR JUDEO~CHRISTIAN NATION
    IS NOT RACIST AT ALL,IT’S JUST OUR BEHIND THE SCENE WEALTHY ELITE CITIZENS KEEPING ALL THE POOR FOLK DOWN*

    AMERICAN RELIGIOUS LEADERS ALL ACROSS THE USA HAVE ALWAYS BEEN ABLE TO COUNT ON THEIR RELIGIOUS FLOCK TO CONTRIBUTE(TITHE)THEIR HARD EARNED MONIES TO THEIR MINISTRIES EVERY WEEK.

    THE MAJORITY OF AMERICANS ATTENDING RELIGIOUS SERVICES IN THE U.S. ARE MIDDLE~CLASS AND WORKING POOR CITIZENS WHO NOW DESPERATELY NEED THE HELP AND SUPPORT FROM THESE SAME U.S.RELIGIOUS LEADERS IN LOBBYING THE U.S.CONGRESS TO PROVIDE PROPER HEALTH~CARE FOR ALL POORER AMERICANS.

    ***THERE ARE CURRENTLY AN ESTIMASTED 45 MILLION MEN WOMAN AND CHILDREN WITHOUT HEALTH~CARE IN THE WEALTHIEST COUNTRY IN THE WORLD????

    SILENT AMERICAN RELIGIOUS LEADERS WHO ALL HAVE HEALTH~CARE FOR THEMSELVES AND THEIR FAMILIES IS MUCH MORE FRIGHTENING THEN THE POSSIBLE DENIAL OF A FUTURE HEALTH~CARE PLAN FOR ALL…

    LAWYERS FOR POOR AMERICANS (424-247-2013)

  87. http://www.anderson.ucla.edu/x682.xml

    The numbers indicate a $544 savings per family just for this pilot project.

    Just one piece of a larger puzzle. Instead of name calling post solutions and play devil’s advocate once in a while.

    I think educational funding support for doctors coupled with a community service repayment plan could give many the coverage and piece of mind at less expense than a straight private system. Capitalism only works when an ethical standard is followed. Just look up Pacificare as a company the collects premiums but does not deliver.

    The President made a valid point on politics in the country that applies to both sides. This need for re-election blinds Congress from performing the trustee side of its duty. The advocacy side takes care of itself in the form of the lobbyists on the national level sadly.

    I find it mind boggling that the same people that wish to save the unborn and the people on feeding tubes yet decry the children’s’ lunch programs and healthcare programs that might save their very neighbors from death or pain. Jesus would be proud.

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