Reason Morning Links: Obama Warns Health Plan Essential to Recovery, Gun Rights Bill Fails, Possible New Fees for Big Firms

- Obama says at press conference that the nation's economic recovery depends on passing his health care plan.

- U.S. considering slapping fees on big financial firms, to "provide an economic incentive for an institution not to grow too large."

- Senate measure that would allow gun owners to carry weapons on across state lines is narrowly falls short of votes need to defeat a filibuster.

- Fact-checking Obama's press conference.

- Recession sparks increases in home burials.

Comments

[Hugh Akston]

OBAMA: "You haven't seen me out there blaming the Republicans."

THE FACTS: Obama did so in his opening statement, saying, "I've heard that one Republican strategist told his party that even though they may want to compromise, it's better politics to 'go for the kill.' Another Republican senator said that defeating health reform is about 'breaking' me."

Not that I care who he blames for his problems, but that shit is hilarious.

[Xeones]

Shut the fuck up, Barack Obama. Shut. The fuck. Up.

[Rich]

Sorry, these long-winded statements need more *analysis* about "essential to recovery". Also, I liked the part about people being unhappy with some of the laws coming out of DC recently.

[Kyle Jordan]

"Shut the fuck up, Barack Obama. Shut. The fuck. Up."

+?

I didn't watch his speech but saw parts of it on the 10 O'clock news and wanted to throw things at my TV. The man or the people who write for him are painfully stupid.

And this..."U.S. considering slapping fees on big financial firms, to "provide an economic incentive for an institution not to grow too large."...is just as fucking dumb.

[Spoonman]

"the nation's economic recovery depends on passing his health care plan."

If recovery means "recovering the status quo", as we've been told as a justification for shitting huge amounts of money into the gaping cloacas of banks, this is complete bullshit, even if you think the plan might help.

[Rich]

Wrt CC, poor on the face of it; but anything that fragments the dems is OK.

[Dr. CoyoteBlue]

"If there's a blue pill and a red pill, and the blue pill is half the price of the red pill and works just as well, why not pay half price for the thing that's going to make you well?"

Gaaa, Morpheus has let himself go downhill since the Matrix III.

[Morpheus]

You take the blue pill, the story ends, you wake up in your bed and believe whatever you want to believe. You take the red pill, you stay in Wonderland, and I show you how deep the rabbit hole goes

[hmm]

? U.S. considering slapping fees on big financial firms, to "provide an economic incentive for an institution not to grow too large."

Is the irony lost on the people who have merged 70 plus percent of failed banks with purchase and assumption are now pissed there are big corporations and banks? The FDIC is like a retarded child with a bazooka.

[P Brooks]

"This bill is an anti-police, pro-gun-trafficker bill," Bloomberg said on the eve of the vote. "It is a bill that will make the police's job much more difficult and much more dangerous, and it will make the streets of our country -- not just big cities, it's small towns as well -- it will make them much more dangerous than they have to be."

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Spoonman]

hmm: Charging a bullet fee.

[hmm]

? Recession sparks increases in home burials.

Gallon of gas, some wood, a match, and BYOB. The only bad part is burnt person is possible one of the most repugnant smells ever, so might want to light my ass up a ways away.

[MNG]

WTF is the argument given that the concealed carry measure is "anti-police?" I don't follow that.

[hmm]

"This bill is an anti-police, pro-gun-trafficker bill," Bloomberg said on the eve of the vote. "It is a bill that will make the police's job much more difficult and much more dangerous, and it will make the streets of our country -- not just big cities, it's small towns as well -- it will make them much more dangerous for egotistical asshole police that need shooting for violating civil liberties ."

Bloomberg is a tard when it comes to politics, and a few other things.

[MNG]

How in the world does it make the job of the police more difficult or dangerous??? They have to consider that people might be armed? They don't assume this could be the case now? wtf?

[J sub D]

He also cited the ballooning costs of spending on government health programs for the poor and elderly, Medicare and Medicaid. He said that without a healthcare revamp, those costs would explode the budget deficit.

Deny treatment (A) or reduce payments (B) to doctors and hospitals? Hammer the elderly or the poor? What's it gonna be, Chosen One? Looking at your (meager) track record, I'm thinking you'll fuck the medicaid recipients with either plan A or B because, after all, you've got their votes anyway.

[John]

My compliments to anyone who can listen to a Presidential Press conference without vomiting and be able to fact check it. Obama is such a lying sack of shit and the media is such pathetic sycophants that I can't imagine a more vomit inducing program than an Obama press conference.

[hmm]

Oddly most of the cops I know follow a "you don't show me yours I won't show you mine" approach to conceal and carry here. I've heard some cops rail against CCW, but none that I know personally.

[hmm]

For those that don't know, most CCW states except other states CCW permits. The majority of the rules are the same state to state and every state has its dipshit municipalities that feels the need to stand out and not allow it.

[J sub Bloomberg]

WTF is the argument given that the concealed carry measure is "anti-police?" I don't follow that.

Well, every single time concealed carry laws have been relaxed the number of killings over fender benders and traffic stops has gone through the roof. You may trot out myriad studies and statistics that indicate that doesn't happen, but I know that just couldn't be possible as it flies in the face of my unexamined assumptions.

[Tomcat1066]

hmm: Most states, but not all. For example, South Carolina won't recognize my Georgia one.

As for municipalities that try to ignore it, that's why I love Georgia's preemption law. All gun laws in the state have to be made BY the state, so Atlanta is forced to conform to the same laws as everyone else 😀

Of course, I really believe that there shouldn't be any of these damn laws. Me and the other permit holders ain't the damn problem.

[hmm]

CCW reciprocity map for the US.

To be honest most states already accept each others CCW, with the exception of the republic of Illinois(where you need a license to buy ammo) and a other nazi states. The bill was more than likely aimed at moving the 2nd to apply to all states in some ass backwards way.

[Xeones]

Fuck home burial, yo. Like hmm says, home cremation's where it's at -- following which, i would like to have my ashes scattered via airplane over a large city. People all drinking coffee at a cafe, something gritty in the bottom of the cup... hi!

[hmm]

The problem is most preemption laws are only useful after you have been harassed by Bubba the drool bib wearing cop.

[hmm]

Trooper White, the guy that choked the medic got a 5 day suspension.

At least he didn't shoot the medic.

[P Brooks]

I want to be buried in SPACE; load me into a tube, with a liberal dose of high explosive, and send me, freight collect, directly to heaven.

Take that, puny Phay-Roahs!

[P Brooks]

And I want Jonathan Winters to perform the service.

[John]

I admit I didn't watch the BO show last night. I am reading the post morums. What the fuck is the deal with the blue pill and red pill? WTF? Is Obama that stupid? No don't answer. He just thinks the country is. Obama is completely out of touch with the actual country. He hasn't had to deal with the problems of us mortals since he first stepped foot in the world of academia and realized how much his half-African/half-White, Indonesian-grade school, Hawaiian Prep School background married to his love of Marxist dorm-room pot smoking philosophy impressed all who came into contact with him.

[hmm]

P Brooks | July 23, 2009, 9:29am | #
I want to be buried in SPACE; load me into a tube, with a liberal dose of high explosive, and send me, freight collect, directly to heaven.

How about some tannerite, a bottle rocket, and a slightly crazy old guy that looks like Wilford Brimley? That's about as close as I can come for ya.

[Tomcat1066]

The problem is most preemption laws are only useful after you have been harassed by Bubba the drool bib wearing cop.

So you've been to Georgia then? 😉

Seriously, I wish there wasn't a need for the blasted things but we have some municipalities who seem to think that it's vital that they disarm us.

Of course, we also have Kennesaw, Georgia which requires every household to have a gun 😀

[comrade]

Did anyone else get driven into murderous rage by BO's nailed-on smug grin?

[John Thacker]

hmm,

Most states accept at least some other states permits, but every state doesn't have reciprocity with all states, even states with fairly similar laws. That's why the map you linked to has a "check the boxes for states where you have permits, and we'll build you a map of where you can carry" function. Also note that about half a dozen states don't fully let that trick work, as they only honor a permit for residents of that state (instead of letting you get permits from states in which you don't reside.)

[Zeb]

A lot of states don't seem to like my NH permit. I can pretty much go to Vermont and that is it, Mass. and NY being in the way of leaving New England.

[Zeb]

Also note that about half a dozen states don't fully let that trick work, as they only honor a permit for residents of that state

In NH, I think they do this because they issue non-resident permits and without sales or income tax the state never misses a chance to collect a fee.

[Tomcat1066]

What struck me as funny was how many of the Dems were screaming States Rights. Since when did that matter? (Yes, Republicans do the same damn thing...but I'm used to THEM calling out state's rights and then ignoring it)

[P Brooks]

a commission appointed by the government would determine what is and isn't covered by insurance plans offered in a new purchasing pool, including a plan sponsored by the government. The bill also holds out the possibility that, over time, those standards could be imposed on all private insurance plans, not just the ones in the pool.

Imagine how much more efficient the system will be, once we "free up" all those doctors currently doing breast implants and facelifts.

We'll have to cover people suffering from "gender misalignment" though; that's a fairness issue.

[P Brooks]

Did anyone else get driven into murderous rage by BO's nailed-on smug grin?

If we could only harness that energy...

[Enough About Palin]

Tell this stupid fucking president to mind the nation's business, not racebaiter Gates'.

WASHINGTON - President Barack Obama said Wednesday that police acted "stupidly" in the arrest of prominent black scholar Henry Louis Gates Jr. and that despite racial progress blacks and Hispanics are still singled out unfairly for arrest.

http://www.myfoxboston.com/dpp/news/local/obama_cambridge_police_acted_stupidly_072209

[John]

P Brooks,

You have to remember that plastic surgeons only do surgury on strippers, trophy wives and Hollywood actors. There really is no other need for a plastic surgeon. No one is ever disfigured in an accident or fire or by a birth defect or has any other than the most shallow need for a plastic surgeon. Under Obama care, these kinds of shallow services, like getting your face rebuilt after an auto accident, will be eliminated. This will fee up money to hire more third undersecretaries to the Healthcare czar and give out more contracts to digitize our medical records.

[Gilbert Martin]

Speaking of "fact checking" Obama, it's evident that his strategy is to try to see to it that there aren't any facts available to be checked.

For the sin of contractiding Obama's claim that his health care plan would reduce costs, the director of the supposedly non-partisan CBO was hauled up to the White House for a meeting with THE ONE to presumably let him know who the boss was and what he should and should not be saying.

If Bush had done the same thing during his tenure, the leftists would have been screaming like banshees about it.

[John Thacker]

We'll have to cover people suffering from "gender misalignment" though; that's a fairness issue.

In all seriousness, the issue of whether the government option will cover abortion is also going to be a massive sticking point in this legislation. Around 20 or so Democrats have already sent a letter indicating that they can't sponsor taxpayer-funded abortions for some (they would presumably be okay with little Americans flags, though.)

[robc]

every state has its dipshit municipalities that feels the need to stand out and not allow it.

Except KY, because our state constitution and state supreme court tell those municipalities to shut the fuck up.

[Tricky Prickears]

U.S. considering slapping fees on big financial firms, to "provide an economic incentive for an institution not to grow too large."

I think Bair is on the right track. But there's much more to it then just slapping fees on "systemic risk" banks. Is the irony lost on the people who have merged 70 plus percent of failed banks with purchase and assumption are now pissed there are big corporations and banks? Good point. It was the government that helped facilitate all of the mergers and acquisitions that led to "systemic risk" banks. I guess now they have begun to see the error of their ways. Mergers and buyouts are part of the cycle, but when these large banks begin to show signs of failure there must be a system in place to wind them down, that is also part of the cycle.

Together with my colleagues I have spent the past 25 years warning policy
makers of the systemic risk that was being created in our nation by the unbridled
growth of the nation's largest banks and financial firms. But, I was told that I
didn't get it, that I didn't understand the new global economy, that I was a
protectionist, that I was afraid of competition, and that I needed to get with the
"modern" times.

More on Jorde's testimony.

You take the blue pill, the story ends, you wake up in your bed and believe whatever you want to believe. You take the red pill, you stay in Wonderland, and I show you how deep the rabbit hole goes

You caught that too, huh?

[John]

"In all seriousness, the issue of whether the government option will cover abortion is also going to be a massive sticking point in this legislation. Around 20 or so Democrats have already sent a letter indicating that they can't sponsor taxpayer-funded abortions for some (they would presumably be okay with little Americans flags, though.)"

If you have a single payer system, which is hte goal, you have to fund abortions or you don't have them. Also, once the government takes over healthcare, what do you think the chances are going to be that Catholic Hospital gets away with not providing abortions. The Catholic Church to their credit would just shut their hospitals down before providing abortions, which the statist would view as an added bonus to the policy of requiring all hospitals provide abortions.

[R C Dean]

Oddly most of the cops I know follow a "you don't show me yours I won't show you mine" approach to conceal and carry here.

That's the way it is here in Texas. The couple of times I've produced ID since I got my CCW license, they've seen the CCW license, and seem to take it as a certification of good citizenship (given that it is evidence of a background check and firearms training).

[R C Dean]

WASHINGTON - President Barack Obama said Wednesday that police acted "stupidly" in the arrest of prominent black scholar Henry Louis Gates Jr. and that despite racial progress blacks and Hispanics are still singled out unfairly for arrest.

Hey, how's that post-racial Presidency coming along?

[Zeb]

Under Obama care, these kinds of shallow services, like getting your face rebuilt after an auto accident, will be eliminated

Did he really say anything that would indicate that this is likely to happen? Or are you just being hyperbolic? Didn't they just do the first full face transplant in evil socialist healthcare rationed France?

(I am against this plan too, but lets try to stick to reality. There are enough real reasons to be against it.)

[robc]

Can anyone explain WI re: concealed carry? For a state with a significant number of pro-gun democratic politicians, there laws sure do suck.

[John]

Zeb,

I was just being flippent in respnse to P Brooks comment about plastic surgeons.

[bookworm]

"Gallon of gas, some wood, a match, and BYOB. The only bad part is burnt person is possible one of the most repugnant smells ever, so might want to light my ass up a ways away."

The do it yourself Gram Parsons style of cremation.

[robc]

Zeb,

People are going to have to give up procedures that don't make them better

You got any other interpretation of that quote?

[Enough About Palin]

"Hey, how's that post-racial Presidency coming along?"

My point exactly.

[Nick]

Of course, we also have Kennesaw, Georgia which requires every household to have a gun 😀

Really?

[Randy Bottoms]

Mayors of Hoboken, Secaucus, Several Rabbis Arrested:

July 23 (Bloomberg) -- The mayors of Hoboken and Secaucus, New Jersey, and several rabbis were among at least 30 people arrested today as part of a public corruption and money- laundering investigation by U.S. authorities.

Hoboken Mayor Peter Cammarano, 31, and Secaucus Mayor Dennis Elwell, both Democrats, Jersey City Council President Mariano Vega Jr., and State Assemblyman Daniel Van Pelt, a Republican from Ocean Township, were among those arrested by the Federal Bureau of Investigation. They are scheduled to appear in federal court in Newark, New Jersey, later today.

"Approximately 30 arrests have occurred this morning in a two-track federal investigation of public corruption and a high- volume, international money-laundering conspiracy," Michael Drewniak, a spokesman for acting U.S. Attorney Ralph Marra, said in a statement.

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=aEB58G7XskU0

[Tomcat1066]

Of course, we also have Kennesaw, Georgia which requires every household to have a gun 😀

Really?

Yes, really. Here's the wikipedia entry (provided I didn't screw up the link), and I remember this being fairly big news during the '96 Olympics with due to Kennesaw's location close to Atlanta.

[J sub D]

In Connecticut, Indiana, Louisiana, Michigan, Nebraska and New York, laws require that a funeral director handle human remains at some point in the process. In the 44 other states and the District of Columbia, loved ones can be responsible for the body themselves.

Wow! In most states (88%) funeral directors have been asleep at the rent seeking switch.
Unfortunately Michigan isn't one of them.

[Warty]

Gallon of gas, some wood, a match, and BYOB. The only bad part is burnt person is possible one of the most repugnant smells ever, so might want to light my ass up a ways away.

No, you also need a largeish body of water, a Viking ship, and a slave girl. These things cost money.

[hmm]

- I know not all states have reciprocity w/ CCW, the middle of the country (Illinois not included) is slowly getting its head out of its ass with this. You coastal people are fucked.

- We have more than a few Bubbas in shit hole two stop light 3 ticket camera municipalities here. I can name two and officers in them that will demand a CCW weapon be turned over to them. They still have badges. Oddly enough these municipalities are in urban areas. The redneck cops could careless, they worry more about meth heads with guns than hillbillies with guns in the hills.

[R C Dean]

Can anyone explain WI re: concealed carry? For a state with a significant number of pro-gun democratic politicians, there laws sure do suck.

It got passed a few years ago, and was vetoed by a Dem Governor.

A good-sized chunk of the state legislature comes from Milwaukee and its environs, and are standard-issue anti-gun Dems.

Wisconsin has more than its fair share of unions, who don't care about gun rights and whose priorities are carried over to the Dems they keep in office.

[hmm]

No, you also need a largeish body of water, a Viking ship, and a slave girl. These things cost money.

I'm cheap, married, and really don't care if it's on a boat. Hell, it's like a wedding. A reason for some friends and a few rednecks to get drunk. The fire is just a bonus for the rednecks.

[SugarFree]

I want my corpse to be force-fed to my enemies in hopes they choke.

[Randy Bottoms]

My brother always said he wanted to be laid-out in a coffin filled with lime jello. Then, the post-service luncheon would consist solely of bowls filled with lime jello.

[Nick]

I can name two and officers in them that will demand a CCW weapon be turned over to them.

How is this handled? Is it too much to assume the cops have no right to confiscate the CCW weapon in question so at some point they have to give them back? Is it just that the cops don't actually know the law (I would not be surprised) or they are just being dicks (I would not be surprised) or they are allowed to take the weapon and check on its legality before giving it back?

[Warty]

SugarFree, that would make a pretty good Cannibal Corpse song.

[SugarFree]

I live my life by their principles.

[hmm]

How is this handled?

I don't know anyone that has contested it or heard of anyone contesting it. One is from the personal experience of a friend. The other is someone I know in passing and have heard him state he does this.

Hell I know officers that still thought they could search a car after an arrest for a traffic violation for drugs. They'd never heard of Arizona v. Gant.

The only place I know of where a weapons check is legal by the police is entering private property that requires it. It's done for some events that allow CCW and gun shows here that do not allow CCW, but do allow unloaded weapons.(of course) Local officers check weapons at the doors for being loaded and tag them with a zippy thingy on the trigger at a lot of shows.

[JB]

I would love to see a state respond by refusing to honor drivers licenses from other states.

[Tomcat1066]

My distaste for eating asphault is part of the reason I keep my weapon concealed and don't mention the permit...unless it's asked. Though some places apparently require you to tell an officer if your carrying.

[Obama]

Obama is completely out of touch with the actual country. He hasn't had to deal with the problems of us mortals since he first stepped foot in the world of academia and realized how much his half-African/half-White, Indonesian-grade school

If you have ever slept beside Michelle after she has had French Onion Soup and crepes with the fromage piled high for her diner, you have dealt with the problems of mortals, brother.

[JB]

As for Bloomberg, that hypocritical piece of shit cum-guzzling whore has armed bodyguards.

What a cunt. He can protect himself, but the peons can't be trusted with weapons. Fuck him every way possible and then some new ones.

The day that fucker dies I will cheer.

[robc]

My favorite CCDW story is still the Ky state capitol sometime shortly after 9/11. The state got metal detectors for the capitol entrances. However, the state concealed carry laws only bans carry from the floors of the house/senate plus conference rooms, not from the capital as a whole. So, you had people walking up to the entrance, pulling out their concealed firearm, handing it to guard, walking thru metal detector, getting firearm back from guard, and reconcealing before heading to their office.

The metal detectors quickly went away.

[hmm]

As for Bloomberg, that hypocritical piece of shit cum-guzzling whore has armed bodyguards.

A little piece of irony people here will enjoy. The M16 select fire and full auto rifles purchased by the AR state police and used to protect Gov. Bill Clinton are in the private sector. I think one is still for sale.

[Tulpa]

President Barack Obama said Wednesday that police acted "stupidly" in the arrest of prominent black scholar Henry Louis Gates Jr. and that despite racial progress blacks and Hispanics are still singled out unfairly for arrest.

And yet I don't expect to hear a peep about the undercover cops posing as drug dealers who killed that guy for telling them to get off his property...

[Rich]

> I would love to see a state respond by refusing to honor drivers licenses from other states.

I would love to see a state respond by refusing to honor tax monies from other states.

[fishbane]

? Senate measure that would allow gun owners to carry weapons on across state lines is narrowly falls short of votes need to defeat a filibuster.

Hm, put aside whether or not the bill produces good outcomes. Wouldn't there be a state's rights problem here?

[Tomcat1066]

Yes and no. The argument I tend to side with is that while it limits the state's right to restrict firearms, it's a right that technically doesn't exist since the right to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.

But that's just me.

[hmm]

I would love to see a state respond by refusing to honor drivers licenses from other states.

Isn't that covered under loving v. Virginia? Lawlery peoples.

[hmm]

Then again I guess it wouldn't be since driving isn't really a right per se like the right to marry whom ever you want.

[Tulpa]

I'm pretty sure that if a state banned driving, they would be free to not honor (dishonor?) other states' drivers licenses. Likewise, if a state bans CCW I don't see how Congress has the authority to force them to accept CCW permits from other states.

[Tulpa]

The argument I tend to side with is that while it limits the state's right to restrict firearms, it's a right that technically doesn't exist since the right to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.

I don't see a right to conceal arms in the 2nd. Make no mistake, I'm pro-CCW, but I don't think it's mandated by the 2nd.

[Tomcat1066]

No, but the there's also nothing in the Constitution granting anyone the right to prescribe the manner in which arms may be carried. I tend to believe that since it said that it shall not be infringed, then the manner in which is should be beared shouldn't either.

In all fairness though, this is one of those cases where I wish the Tenth Amendment was clearer about which powers went to the states and which ones to the people. That would clear the whole damn thing up for everyone 😉

[Civil Discourse]

"I tend to believe that since it said that it shall not be infringed, then the manner in which is should be beared shouldn't either. "

AZ has open carry. How often do we read about problems associated with that?

[Zeb]

"Zeb,

People are going to have to give up procedures that don't make them better

You got any other interpretation of that quote?

Well, I would think that the consensus in the medical profession and even among those who favor nationalized health care, is that reconstructive plastic surgery does in fact "make you better". I am not really sure what to make of the quote. My best guess is that he is referring to the relative effectiveness research, or whatever it is called.

[Medic001]

What about the taxin of miles? Holy crap. Talk about locking communties in place. They want to tax you based on your milage, rather than a blanket fuel tax. I'll take the blanket tax.

Guess they don't want people in TX going to Disney land.

is it 2012 yet?

[R C Dean]

I don't see a right to conceal arms in the 2nd. Make no mistake, I'm pro-CCW, but I don't think it's mandated by the 2nd.

Try this Tulpa.

The Second Amendment says: ". . . the right to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."

When you carry a weapon, you are "bearing" it, regardless of whether it is visible or not.

Outlawing the carrying of a weapon that is not clearly visible is "infringing" the right to bear arms.

[Tulpa]

No, but the there's also nothing in the Constitution granting anyone the right to prescribe the manner in which arms may be carried.

The states don't need authorization from the constitution to exercise their police powers. Indeed, the 2nd wasn't even intended to apply to state governments when it was ratified.

RC,

None of the other rights in the BoR are interpreted so expansively. Even the freedom of speech is subject to time, place, and manner restrictions.

I'm not a constitutional lawyer, but it would seem to me that a restriction that does not impede one's ability to use a firearm for legal purposes (ie, self-defense, hunting, target shooting) would not run afoul of the 2nd. For instance, a law against carrying a loaded weapon in public would be too strict, but a law against carrying a weapon in a courthouse would not.

Of course the argument is pretty academic anyway, since most gun control types would be even more loath to permit open carry than concealed.

[Bob Smith]

Senate measure that would allow gun owners to carry weapons on across state lines is narrowly falls short of votes need to defeat a filibuster.

Why not try to push this through? If the Senate Democrats want to waste time filibustering this bill, it means they aren't spending time enacting Cap & Trade or Health Care Reform. Seems like a good thing all around.

[zengxin]

Cartier Watches

[mark]

Indeed, the 2nd wasn't even intended to apply to state governments when it was ratified.

Can I get a citation here? "Shall not be infringed" sounds like the authority to protect gun rights everywhere the flag flies, not just in Washington, DC, and without any need to "incorporate" the right under the 14th.