Food Freedom

"Sanitizing American agriculture, aside from being impossible, is foolhardy"

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Writing in the San Francisco Chronicle, Reason Contributing Editor Carolyn Lochhead reports that farmers are destroying plants and wildlife in the name of food safety:

In the verdant farmland surrounding Monterey Bay, a national marine sanctuary and one of the world's biological jewels, scorched-earth strategies are being imposed on hundreds of thousands of acres in the quest for an antiseptic field of greens. And the scheme is about to go national.

Invisible to a public that sees only the headlines of the latest food-safety scare—spinach, peppers and now cookie dough—ponds are being poisoned and bulldozed. Vegetation harboring pollinators and filtering storm runoff is being cleared. Fences and poison baits line wildlife corridors. Birds, frogs, mice and deer—and anything that shelters them—are caught in a raging battle in the Salinas Valley against E. coli O157:H7, a lethal, food-borne bacteria….

Galvanized by the spinach disaster, large growers instituted a quasi-governmental program of new protocols for growing greens safely, called the "leafy greens marketing agreement." A proposal was submitted last month in Washington to take these rules nationwide.

A food safety bill sponsored by Rep. Henry Waxman, D-Los Angeles, passed this month in the House Energy and Commerce Committee. It would give new powers to the Food and Drug Administration to regulate all farms and produce in an attempt to fix the problem. The bill would require consideration of farm diversity and environmental rules, but would leave much to the FDA.

Read the rest here. Reason on food politics here.

(Via Overlawyered.com)

NEXT: If We Spend Twice as Much on Health Care As Other Countries, and the Government Pays for Half of Health Care Now....

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  1. You can trust the FDA too. I mean, look at how they took Cheerios to task!

  2. All this so people won’t have to wash their produce.

    Wonderful.

    E coli has a lot of common with terrorists. It is absolutely impossible to be totally safe from either, and the things the state is likely to do if it tries to achieve total safety are likely to be extremely destructive.

    I picture these food safety people as a combination of Howie Mandel and the villain from Ultraviolet.

  3. This is horrid. if your system is so weak you get food poisioning and die from eating then you have problems. I have eaten foods all over the world and form sketchy roadside and cart vendors in 3rd world countries, and never gotten sick. and i gaurentee that food is way the fuck more contaminated than anything in America.
    let the wildlife and nature alone, they are protecting the crops, by doing this they are setting up for a dustbowl type sitiuation by clearing all native species out of the way.

  4. Then again, thinking that they have some kind of germophobe complex gives them too much credit for sincerity.

    A large part of the food safety movement is insincere, and is driven either by large corporate producers who want to drive smaller farmers out of business, and/or attorneys who want to instill in the public mind an impossible standard of safety so they can then sue anyone who fails to achieve that impossible standard.

  5. There is no problem that can’t be made worse through the actions of a committee.

  6. How did we ever manage to evolve this long?

  7. I wonder just how many filthy illegal metsicans are contaminating those lovely crops?
    You know. The sweat dripping from the brow of an illegal must be riddled with all manner of unspeakable disease. It would be better if they just stayed at home and drawed the welfare for the anchor babies and stayed away from my food.

  8. Waxman is just trying to make everything he can get his hands on as hideous and fucked up as he is.

  9. I’ll take a little E. coli over an epidemic of insanity any day.

  10. You actually watched Ultraviolet? And you admit it?

  11. Waxman is more likely to make me puke than E. Coli.

  12. It’s truly, truly horrible. But has some visually stunning individual images or scenes. And one of those scenes is watching the villain guy drink a cup of tea.

  13. Fluffy, really, all you had to say was “Milla Jovovich”.

  14. The cure is worse than the disease? How is that possible?

    Ethanol as a environmental friendly fuel.
    Removing asbestos from schools.
    Feel free to provide your own examples.

  15. Or we could just irradiate all produce and not have to worry about it. They did finally allow irradiation after the big spinach scare last year. It would seem easier and less environmentally destructive to sanitize produce after it has left the nature that it is to try an sanitize nature.

    This is also an example of how the increasing sensitivity of our scientific instruments creates hazards of which we used to be unaware. We’ve been getting E. Coli 157 infections forever. The strain itself was isolated back in IIRC the 1920’s. But it is only now that our technology lets us see a pattern in the infections. Prior to easy genetic sequencing and computerized medical records, we had no idea that such outbreaks even occurred much less that they were all caused by a single bacterial strain from a single source.

    So now that we’re aware of this very minor problem we’ve decided to nuke mother nature instead of nuking our food. This is the kind of perverse outcome that safety and environmental groups who are driven primarily by a hostility to capitalism create all the time.

  16. How can the poor be expected to wash their own vegetables when salad spinners are still only available from greedy kitchen gadget companies that only care about the bottom line?

    Salad spinning is a human right!

  17. Large produce buyers have compiled secret “super metrics” that go much further. Farmers must follow them if they expect to sell their crops. These can include vast bare-dirt buffers, elimination of wildlife, and strict rules on water sources. To enforce these rules, retail buyers have sent forth armies of food-safety auditors, many of them trained in indoor processing plants, to inspect fields.

    Produce buyers compete to demand the most draconian standards, said Jo Ann Baumgartner, head of the Wild Farm Alliance in Watsonville, so that they can sell their products as the “safest.”

    Sounds to me like the market, not government, is demanding these techniques.

  18. A food safety bill sponsored by Rep. Henry Waxman

    Waxman… I knew it.

  19. I have a crazy idea. How about people wash off their vegitables before eating them? It is a crazy idea I know. But every place that I know of in the country has tap water that is chlorinated and safe to drink. When you use this magic stuff called potable water to wash off the dirt and germs from vegitables, it makes them safe and clean. But nah, lets waste a few billion instead.

  20. The bill would require consideration of farm diversity and environmental rules, but would leave much to the FDA.

    This is the organization that says that smoking cigarettes is safe and effective.

  21. Sounds to me like the market, not government, is demanding these techniques.

    Most likely this is only because they know who will get the ass raping if someone so much as sneezes after eating something they sell. Because of governmental regulations and those armies of scumbag attorneys.

  22. Henry Waxman, always fucking Henry Waxman. What metaphor is more apt to describe this imbecile, chicken little or the comet tumbling out of the sky to bomb Cali into the sea?

  23. Because of governmental regulations and those armies of scumbag attorneys.

    I’m sure the “ambulance chaser” mentality has something to do with it. But these produce buyers/retailers have liability insurance to cover lawsuits. I would tend to think they are concerned with their reputations as well. If bad produce was sold in supermarket A, then consumers would flock to supermarket B.

  24. Waxman wants revenge on the world for being born so fucking ugly. He’s going to make all of us pay, especially the beautiful ones like me.

  25. Fluffy, really, all you had to say was “Milla Jovovich”.

    Schwing!!!!

  26. @fluffy
    With leafy greens and E. Coli. washing may not help. E. Coli. can get into breaks in the produces surface to get within the product itself.

    The real problem is the numbers involved. You have millions of bags of pre-processed lettuce eaten per day but when < 200 people get sick the entire world flips out. I don’t have the time to look up the numbers right now but the odd of getting sick, even under the old rules was incredibly low.

  27. But these produce buyers/retailers have liability insurance to cover lawsuits.

    That doesn’t help if the underlying system of liability is itself skewed or perverse.

    For example, consider the list of “let’s nuke nature” measures listed in the original post. A clever attorney could dupe a bunch of rubes who have never had any involvement in the production of food and convince a jury full of them that anyone who failed to take all of these measures was negligent. Because our system of civil liability is continually defining negligence down to meet the new idiot-proof standard.

  28. From memory:

    The key problem is that E Coli gets into the soil from animal waste. The plants take up the E Coli in water extracted from the soil. The E Coli is, therefore, inside the plant and cannot be washed off.

    So there are 2 solutions: Slash and burn to ensure that no animal can piss or shit in a field of greens; Irradiate the plants to kill microganisms in or on the plant.

    One of those has a high probability of success. However, irrational phobias held by the general population makes it “unmarketable”.

  29. The key problem is that E Coli gets into the soil from animal waste.

    A.K.A. “organic farming”.

  30. With leafy greens and E. Coli. washing may not help. E. Coli. can get into breaks in the produces surface to get within the product itself.

    The real problem is the numbers involved. You have millions of bags of pre-processed lettuce eaten per day but when < 200 people get sick the entire world flips out. I don’t have the time to look up the numbers right now but the odd of getting sick, even under the old rules was incredibly low.

    In another thread, the subject of vaccines came up. I wondered if it was possible to extend our system of liability to create a cause of action where one person passed another person a disease after failing to exercise the due care of getting vaccinated. I was eventually convinced that it wasn’t possible. One reason it’s not possible is because illness is ubiquitous, and the range of things one would have to do to completely avoid catching and passing on, say, a flu bug, or the Norwich virus, just wouldn’t be reasonable.

    But the problem with our system of civil liability is that jurors will apply one standard of “reasonableness” to their own conduct and a completely different one to that of producers in industries with which they have no familiarity. So although your average juror isn’t stupid or unreasonable enough to think that it’s possible for private actors to completely avoid passing around the flu virus, they are stupid and unreasonable enough to assign liability to food producers who don’t completely nuke their entire county to avoid giving three people a decade e coli.

  31. Thanks Kinnath, I didn’t know that. Beyond the irrational fears of irradiation, can’t these people get it through their thick skulls that life has some risks?

  32. “The key problem is that E Coli gets into the soil from animal waste.

    A.K.A. “organic farming”.

    But but, you should eat local and seasonal!!

  33. A.K.A. “organic farming”.

    A.K.A. “owning a farm”.

    Basically anyone who owns and operates anything that would be recognizable as a farm in Europe and North America for the last 3000 years is “operating unsafely”, and the only safe mode of operation is to sterilize 100 square miles and plant a monoculture crop with a 10 mile buffer of dirt between that crop and your next abutter.

  34. Fluffy, really, all you had to say was “Milla Jovovich”.

    That’s why I watched it.

    Sounds to me like the market, not government, is demanding these techniques.

    If, by the market, you mean mass tort suits brought by the trial bar, I would agree.

    But these produce buyers/retailers have liability insurance to cover lawsuits.

    They are either (a) self-insured (b) have whopping deductibles or (c) required to institute this stuff to keep their insurance.

    I would tend to think they are concerned with their reputations as well.

    Very few supermarkets buy their own directly from farms. Mostly, the produce buyers are middlemen, who don’t have any particular public reputation at all. Whether they would lose commercial clients over something like this, I couldn’t say.

  35. That this is a reaction to a few minor food scares is just ridiculous.
    If anything, the occasional minor food scare shows how incredibly safe our food supply is and how the existing system really works quite well. Whenever there is the slightest hint about some contaminated food, there is a massive recall and no more than a few hundred people get sick enough to report it. That such an event is even worth mentioning says a lot about how safe food is in this country.

  36. Irradiation would wipe out huge swaths of food-borne illness. The technology has been ready to go for a couple of decades, but has only been used for niche applications.

    Also from memory: factory farming practices have changed the chemical balances in the cow’s digestive track turning them into E Coli facories. It has been speculated that the upturn in E Coli cases is due in part to these modern farming practices.

  37. Fluffy,

    Very true. One other thing to conisider. If the greenies get their way with cap and theft, the price of nitrigen manufactured fertlizer will skyrocket. It will make using manure much more competetive. We can all die of e-coli but die knowing our carbon footprint was low.

  38. Mostly, the produce buyers are middlemen, who don’t have any particular public reputation at all.

    They do not, but from my (albeit limited) knowledge is they do have a business reputation. I know in the restaraunt industry, if you deliver crappy produce, you get known, and no one will buy from you.

  39. @Tricky Prickears
    Though lawsuits are a part of it, especially for companies the size of Dole, but it’s not the big killer for produce companies, who make up the “Leafy Greens” coalition. Produce is one of those products where what you sale is almost exactly the same as what your competitor sales. Produce sales are almost purely based upon reputation and connections. Once a label or a companies reputation takes even a little hit it is just easier for a buyer to go to a different producer than deal with it. Leafy Greens was started to combat the negative image California leaf greens had after the spinach and Dole scares. Then after “Leafy Greens” was started, farmers and produce companies realized that the rules put them at a disadvantage as compared to produce farmers in other states. Testing costs, produce dumps, and fields not being able to be planted due to their locations, i.e. next to cattle farms, raised their costs. Since they staked their reputation on “Leafy Greens” rules making food safer they couldn’t back out. Their only recourse now is to force the rest of the country to follow the same rules.

  40. kinnath, there was an interesting article a few months back in “Mother Earth News” about the cattle industry in America. It is available online. I will find the link if you want it. The article addressed the e-coli you mentioned as well as other concerns.

  41. The solution, as far as I am concerned, is to eat your burgers well done and let the rabbits have the leafy greens.

  42. Why not fight the propaganda with truth?

    Carrot A has been irradiated and is 100% safe to eat. Charge to eat this carrot: $0.25

    Carrot B has not been irradiated and is 99.5% safe to eat. Charge to eat this carrot $0.75

  43. @R C Dean
    Some produce companies grow their own produce and some buy from outside farmers. These produce companies do sale directly to the super markets, sometimes based upon price differences, but to a large extent sales are based on who you know and the reputation of the label that is on the box of produce. Prices tend not to be that different between different produce companies, there is a lettuce co-op in the Salinas valley made up of a number of the big California lettuce producers, whose sole purpose is to make sure that lettuce prices don’t vary that much between companies.

  44. Funny part is, if we actually managed to get rid of ALL the e. coli, we couldn’t digest anything.

  45. I went to Rocky Point in Mexico and ate this awesome chicken in a restaurant that had a dirt floor. There was no kitchen, you could watch’em cook your food. And they sold Coke in the old fashinoned 16 oz glass containers. Somehow, I survived that and all those hot Mexican women.

  46. Carrot A has been irradiated and is 100% safe to eat. Charge to eat this carrot: $0.25

    Carrot B has not been irradiated and is 99.5% safe to eat. Charge to eat this carrot $0.75

    You have it backward. The market sets the price.

    Market value for B, 75 cents.

    Market value for A, 0 cents — no one will buy it {actually some will, but not enough to sustain the supply chain}

  47. OK, so what’s the secret here, why are you guys against this again? The liberty to have dysentery or something?

  48. @ troy:

    I live in, let’s say, an “urban” area in the new parlance, complete with many national chains having signs displayed only in Spanish. One is WalGreens, which makes it hard for me to figure out how much developing photos [fotos] is going to cost me, but on the flip side, it means they stock Mexican coke in the glass bottles with real sugar. It is heaven, my friend.

  49. I don’t know any farmer which advertises their wares as “likely to make you sick as hell.” Therefore I see bills like these regulating things in the name of food safety as simple fraud protection devices which I should think would pass in Libertopia (not that I’m a citizen there)…

    Face it, your market had its chance, and the whole “rational self-interested producers would never act negligently or recklessly to make a quick buck because harming their consumers would negatively effect their profits” blah blah blah didn’t work out.

  50. @MNG
    It’s just the stupidity of needing regulation to control a one in a million circumstance.

  51. @ MNG:

    The existence of harmful micro-organisms that can never be completely accounted for in any kind of realistic, timely, cost-justified fashion is a market failure?

    Man, we really were doomed from the start, huh?

  52. The key problem is that E Coli gets into the soil from animal waste.

    A.K.A. “organic farming”.

    Bullshit. All soil has bacteria in it that can kill you and all farms have animals shitting on them. Can you cite any evidence that organic produce is any more likely to make you sick than conventionally grown? You clearly have no direct experience with gardening or agriculture.

    The hate for organic farming around here is retarded and quite ignorant. Organic is a bad name for it and most people who are into it have some pretty ridiculous ideas about its benefits, but it is not worthless. No, organic is not a viable replacement for conventional methods, and organically grown food is not inherently better for you than anything else (provided you wash the pesticides off). Manure is excellent, safe fertilizer and applied properly pathogens contained in it do not get into the food.

    Personally, I don’t care all that much. I do happen to favor local organic produce in many cases, but that is because in my experience it is of far higher quality than anything else (yes, even better than local non-organic, but that is only my limited experience). Unfortunately it is only available for about two or three months of the year where I live.

  53. Making people truthfully represent their wares is, imo, a legit and bare minimum function of government. Why in the world should the onus be on the consumer, why create such a “jungle” mentality of caveat emptor (a-ha Mr. Producer, you may fool other foolish consumers with your fraudelent wares, but not I!)?

    So let’s have a bill that says, all companies that want to represent their wares as safe have to work under a set of regulations promoting safe food production, and all you companies that want to mark your food “we don’t give a shit about your safety as a consumer, caveat emptor” can be exempt.

  54. OK, so what’s the secret here, why are you guys against this again?

    The technology exists to make the problem go away (irradiation), but a consortium of produce growers are instituting a series of environmentally-desctructive practices to mitigate a problem that could be solved by the application of low-cost technology.

    This deserves a huge heap of snark.

  55. Look, there are two arguments: 1. is it legit for government to propose regulation aiming at ensuring that food production is done in a way that safeguards consumer health and safety and 2. is any given set of regulations sensible.

    I’m arguing yes to number one.

  56. I don’t know MNG, perhaps people have a problem with the indescriminate slaughtering of wildlife to eliminate an extremely small risk. I happen to like wildlife. I think it is cruel and wrong to slaughter even frogs and mice on the basis of a risk that 200 out of 300 million people might get e-coli every five years.

    Is there a government program, no matter how brutal, you don’t love?

    “Fences and poison baits line wildlife corridors. Birds, frogs, mice and deer-and anything that shelters them-are caught in a raging battle in the Salinas Valley against E. coli O157:H7, a lethal, food-borne bacteria…. “

  57. I guess I was not clear: I’m not arguing for the particular “quasi-governmental program of new protocols for growing greens” (leafy greens whatever) but for the legitimacy of the government to come in and do something better, which it sounds like is being contemplated in the last paragraph.

  58. The solution, as far as I am concerned, is to eat your burgers well done and let the rabbits have the leafy greens.

    And then eat well done rabbit. Waste not, want not,

  59. And of course, this consortium that is “voluntarily” destroying the environment the federal government to impose the same rules on the entire nation as non-voluntary regulations.

    Even if one sees a valid role in the government imposting safety regulations, this sitation is completely off the map of sanity.

  60. Though I also agree with Epi that Waxman is akin to a sub-human homunculus, or the son of the Mole Man.

  61. And of course, this consortium that is “voluntarily” destroying the environment wants the federal government to impose the same rules on the entire nation as non-voluntary regulations.

    Preview dammit

  62. I could live with the government imposing irradiation as an equivalent to pasteurization so long as producers can opt out with appropriate labelling.

    I would be first in line to buy irradiated produce.

  63. MNG,

    I take it back. It just seems to me that this program is serious overkill. Sadly, typical of government programs. And yes, Waxman is a subhuman moleman.

  64. Is there not some benefit to being exposed to small doses of e-coli? I’m worried that if we lose our immunizing doses of sickness while in our prime, fuckheads like Holdren will be able to wipe us all out with one outbreak later on.

  65. Bees,

    I just checked out the LGMA website. Amazing. The article made it sound like it was these big national buyers (supermarket chains) that were imposing these “standards” on growers. But really it’s the California Dept of Agriculture. Now, they’re trying to impose these standards on all farmers. Forgive me, I’m on the right coast. I never really was big on Cali produce. For example Cali strawberries; big, red, beautiful, but not sweet or juicy and the texture of, well, straw. They are grown to look good, and travel well, with an extended growing season, that’s all. My locally grown berries are only available for about 6 weeks. But they are incredible. I ate an entire quart for dinner one night. But if you so much as look at them the wrong way, they bruise. I am sick and tired of Cali farmers. Isn’t there any greens coming from Chile or Mexico? And I don’t drink Cali. wine, either.

  66. Uh, doesn’t cooking the greens (thoroughly) eliminate the e coli?

  67. Uh, doesn’t cooking the greens (thoroughly) eliminate the e coli?

    But a taco with boiled lettuce just isn’t quite as appealing.

  68. Though I also agree with Epi that Waxman is akin to a sub-human homunculus, or the son of the Mole Man.

    Thank you. One thing that can bring all of us together on this site is our mutual disgust of Henry “OH MY GOD WHAT IS THAT” Waxman.

  69. There are many a hoax being played on the American people, the king of those being the hoax that more government and more government programs can make life more safe. Here’s the kicker (no pun intended), we will all one day die, and in the intervening time, only each individual has the *opportunity* to be in the best position to ultimately maximize his or her well-being. Gosh, read the history of the outcomes (as measured by the individual, not the collective) of all the Utopian movements throughout history! Hello! Do we really need to put that gun to our head again!

    “Food safety” is yet another panacea for the government to convince us that, with gov help, we can live forever. Global warming hoax – same thing. Socialized medicine – same thing. Gun Control – same thing. And the list goes on. Then again, perhaps our handlers are merely preparing us to be absorbed into the Ummah, where salvation is not an individual concept, but one of perfecting the society. Works real well in the mid-east – NOT!

  70. Yuma, Az. is where the salad fixins come from in the winter when the Salinas area is too cold. There is also some grown around El Centro Ca. if I recall correctly. Salinas area is the biggie.

    The folks are nervous as hell about produce from the most tight assed state in the union. You think we would eat MEXICAN salad fixins?

  71. “Food safety” is yet another panacea for the government to convince us that, with gov help, we can live forever.

    Get a life dude.

  72. I could live with the government imposing irradiation as an equivalent to pasteurization so long as producers can opt out with appropriate labelling.

    I would be first in line to buy irradiated produce.

    I agree. It is no more a stretch than requiring pasteurization as an effective regulation. With an opt out provision it would not really be a nuisance to the producers who want to cater to the soiled sandals and hair shirt crowd.

    Funny, isn’t Waxman one of the people responsible for holding up the use of irradiation? Someone with a stronger stomach for gruesome molemen than I would have to double check, but if true, and he favors this policy over irradiation, I can only say, wow.

  73. “Indeed, the truth that many people never understand, until it is too late, is that the more you try to avoid suffering, the more you suffer, because smaller and more insignificant things begin to toture you, in proportion to your fear of being hurt. The one who does the most to avoid suffering is, in the end, the one who suffers most: and his suffering comes to him from things so little and so trivial that one can say it is no longer objective at all.” Thomas Merton “The Seven Storey Mountain”

    I see this as relevant to the discussion. Folks are living scared to the degree they are no longer rational and wanting the gubmint to pertect em.

  74. kinnath | July 17, 2009, 3:43pm | #
    “Food safety” is yet another panacea for the government to convince us that, with gov help, we can live forever.

    Get a life dude.

    Well, if you have followed the arguments over the years for nationalized health care, some of the rhetoric does seem to suggest that mortality itself is the result of market failure.

  75. OK, so what’s the secret here, why are you guys against this again? The liberty to have dysentery or something?

    Personally, it offends me as an example of the extreme-to-the-point-of-insanity risk aversion that has infected our culture.

    Plus, Waxman wants to make it mandatory for everyone, after CA made it mandatory for CA. So there’s that whole jackboot thing.

  76. OK, so what’s the secret here, why are you guys against this again? The liberty to have dysentery or something?

    That time after I ate lunch at a Greek themed kiosk at the food court in the Crystal City mall, and then I headed back to North Carolina, I had to stop at every McDonald’s positioned on an overpass in between to unleash the fury. Unpleasant, but I’m a stronger man for it.

  77. Zeb,

    All soil has bacteria in it that can kill you and all farms have animals shitting on them. Can you cite any evidence that organic produce is any more likely to make you sick than conventionally grown? You clearly have no direct experience with gardening or agriculture.

    Well, off the top of my head, there was the big E. Coli contamination of the big apple juice chain in Washington a few years. Their big “organic” thing was not pasteurizing the apple juice to preserve its “natural” flavor. When E. Coli got into the system, apparently from wild or domestic animals, it proved very lethal.

    I grew up on a farm and I was educated as a biologist so I do have and understanding of the issue. In order to farm productively, you must add nitrogen to the soil. If you don’t, a field producing vegetables will be completely exhausted within five years. Field rotation with nitrogen fixing plants like clover is usually not economically feasible as it requires three times as much land (and ecological displacement.) Only animals fix enough nitrogen in proteins to be able to replenish he soil. “Organic” farms must therefore rely on either animal manure or fish products to replenish their soil. The later is largely safe although expensive and very ecologically destructive. The later is cheap but poses dangers unless they take the expensive and energy intensive step of heat sterilizing.

    So it is honest to say that when you eat “organic” produce you are far more likely than not to eat a plant that was sprayed down with animal shit at some point in its life cycle.

    I think we should require a warning on all produce saying whether they’ve been exposed to animal feces or not. That would educate some people in a hurry.

  78. Thanks, Shannon Love,

    I try to explain to people why “organic” farming is actually less “sustainable” than conventional use of nitrogren fertilizer and pesticides, but the retards never listen.

    In truth, the “organic” movement is largely about aethetics and elitism, and has very little to do with the environment.

    It’s about being seen to care about the environment, and the imagery associated with “pristine” nature. Seeing and being seen. Not really about rational environmental policy at all.

  79. nice post..
    ___________________
    Britney
    Entertainment at one stop

  80. And yet irradiation of meat, fruit, and vegetables after it has been packaged is not widespread. This solution would be far more effective and would cost far less then preventing contamination in the field.

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