Pornography

Does More Porn Make Society Better?

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On the subjects of rape, Ted Bundy, and pornography, Rod Dreher writes

Bundy isn't blaming porn for making him a sex killer. He says it's his own fault. But he also points out that constant exposure to pornography wore down the "very strong inhibitions against criminal and violent behavior" that kept the antisocial impulses within him in check. The point isn't that every person who develops a porn habit will turn into Greg Goben or Ted Bundy. That's absurd. But it seems inarguable to me that no good can come of pornography, and whatever weaknesses we struggle with in relation to sexual and emotional health will be amplified by porn. Put another way, can anybody imagine that using pornography makes you a better or more emotionally healthy person? 

Leaving aside the inherent problem of determining what makes someone a "better" person, there is some reasonably good evidence to suggest that increased access to pornography and violent entertainment make society better off by providing an outlet for aggressive, anti-social urges. Here's Steven Landsburg summarizing the evidence that porn reduces rape at Slate:

A 10 percent increase in Net access yields about a 7.3 percent decrease in reported rapes. States that adopted the Internet quickly saw the biggest declines. And, according to Clemson professor Todd Kendall, the effects remain even after you control for all of the obvious confounding variables, such as alcohol consumption, police presence, poverty and unemployment rates, population density, and so forth.

Landsburg also notes a study by University of California professors Gordon Dahl and Stefano DellaVigna that suggests violent movies produce a comparable effect:

What happens when a particularly violent movie is released? Answer: Violent crime rates fall. Instantly. Here again, we have a lot of natural experiments: The number of violent movie releases changes a lot from week to week. One weekend, 12 million people watch Hannibal, and another weekend, 12 million watch Wallace & Gromit: The Curse of the Were-Rabbit.

University of California professors Gordon Dahl and Stefano DellaVigna compared what happens on those weekends. The bottom line: More violence on the screen means less violence in the streets. Probably that's because violent criminals prefer violent movies, and as long as they're at the movies, they're not out causing mischief. They'd rather see Hannibal than rob you, but they'd rather rob you than sit through Wallace & Gromit.

I say that's the most probable explanation, because the biggest drop in crime (about a 2 percent drop for every million people watching violent movies) occurs between 6 p.m. and midnight-the prime moviegoing hours. And what happens when the theaters close? Answer: Crime stays down, though not by quite as much. Dahl and DellaVigna speculate that this is because two hours at the movies means two hours of drinking Coke instead of beer, with sobering effects that persist right on through till morning.

Meanwhile, similar trends — albeit somewhat more broad — exist with regard to violent video games. Between 1993, when the first video games with explicit violence hit shelves, and 2002, when they had become common on PCs and game consoles, murders committed by those aged 14-17 dropped substantially.

Needless to say, none of this is proof positive. Correlation does not prove causation. And when it comes to human motivations, a measure of uncertainty is inevitable: It's almost impossible to prove definitively why anyone does anything, much less why they don't. But the evidence is strong, and it makes sense that pornography and violent entertainment might serve as exhaust valves for our aggressive impulses — that, in most cases, they would help regulate our instincts rather than amplify them. If there's anything that history has taught us about human nature, it's that it's almost always far better to provide safe, structured, non-destructive outlets for our impulses than attempt to suppress them. 

Steve Chapman looked at the connection between rape and violence here. Charles Oliver wrote in praise of porn here

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  1. “Does More Porn Make Society Better?”
    Duh – yeah!!! Although it does have tendency to dehydrate me and make my keyboard sticky … 😉

    Wallace & Gromit: The Curse of the Were-Rabbit.
    I’d say it had some pretty hairy (fuzzy bunnies) violence in it. And the part at the end where Wallace is nude and standing in the “nuts” barrel was pretty good.

  2. The bottom line is that this is the sort of issue about which there can be empirical evidence and people like Dreher are simply not thinking in those terms at all. The mode of thought here is religio-moralistic, not rational.

  3. Considering the number of Falling Down scenarios (mostly starring H&R commenters) that would immediately follow if porn was effectively eliminated, I’m going with “Yes” as well.

  4. I’m tired of the Nanny State notion that anything that some moron/crazy/criminal might abuse must be denied to every one of us.

    Abusus non tollit usum!

  5. People (especially men) have to get their jollies out.

    Testosterone produces a fuck or fight reflex and it needs to be burned off.

    Just as repressing political speech encourages more political violence, repressing porn encourages more rape.

  6. I’ll forgo a joke about “wise latina porn” – I don’t want the mental image any more than you do.

  7. it seems inarguable to me that no good can come of pornography,

    Unless, of course, you regard personal pleasure that harms no one as a good thing.

    whatever weaknesses we struggle with in relation to sexual and emotional health will be amplified by porn

    Claiming this is “inarguable” is what is known as “assuming your conclusion.”

  8. FORGIVE THE URKOBOLD’S IGNORANCE OF THE LAW, BUT ISN’T ‘BATIN’ A FUNDAMENTAL RIGHT? HOW CAN ONE ‘BATE WITHOUT PORN? THE URKOBOLD IS CONFUSED.

  9. What if these things do both, act as a stress reliever for some while whacking out the brains of others? After all those stories about how “24” convinced military officers of the utility of torture I find it hard to believe that no one ever, ever, ever anywhere saw a horror/porn movie and said, “Hey, chopping up people/having violent sex sounds pretty neat-o!”

  10. I find it hard to believe that no one ever, ever, ever anywhere saw a horror/porn movie and said, “Hey, chopping up people/having violent sex sounds pretty neat-o!”

    Someone who would come to that conclusion already has something pretty fundamental wrong with them, Billy!.

  11. Free Porn: For A Better World

  12. Put another way, can anybody imagine that using pornography makes you a better or more emotionally healthy person?

    Let me ask you something, Mr. Dreher. What’s better, cheating on you wife or squeezing one out in your home office in the middle of the night?

  13. Better to ask: Does a constant search for rationales to censor make society worse?

    Yes. Absolutely. Repression of any form of expression is still repression; this isn’t dependent upon if some people like the expression under consideration, or not.

    Particularly in the case of our society, which enables completely free speech based upon the now highly-eroded first amendment (meaning that the amendment clearly allows for no exceptions; our out of control government has implemented very badly-reasoned exceptions [fire in a crowded theater, slander, etc., ad nauseam] in an unauthorized fashion, being that the constitution is the authorizing document for any power they legitimately get to wield.)

    For the case of immature minds, parents bear the responsibility for choosing what those minds are exposed to based upon how they choose to raise the child. If you let your kid on the net without supervision, you’ve said, plain as day, that you are ok with your kid seeing anything and everything, and that’s fine — that’s your right as a parent to decide when and where or if that should occur while the child is in your care — in no way does it imbue society with the need or responsibility to do your job for you if you are so stupid to have done so without thinking it through.

    You know, there’s “stuff” in the grass. It’s to be expected. Dog shit, broken glass, stones, the occasional sprig of poison ivy, bees, spiders, ants and so on. It’s your responsibility to be aware of where you sit and walk and play, and to check the condition of the grass before you let your children in it, if you can’t be sure they’ll check first and that they understand what you wish them to understand about what they may find there. We still want grass, not astroturf.

  14. It’s all about brain chemistry, despite what the jesus lovers would have you believe.

  15. I watched the whammy burger scene from Falling Down just now and I don’t think porn really could temper that rage. Also, if you have an internet connection and you are paying for porn I question your intelligence.

  16. Maybe Rod Dreher’s whole “Crunchy Con” thing is actually the sound his teeth are making when they’re grinding together because he’s not using enough porn.

  17. The feminist anti-pornography campaign was notable for several reasons: its insistence that modern pornography was the “theory” to the ancient evil of rape’s “practice”; its adopted Marxian disdain for liberty and evidence (e.g., Kathleen Barry: “It is costly for us to be diverted to false issues like freedom of speech or … trying to prove through research what we already know through common sense.”); its alliance with authoritarian conservatives and the Reagan Administration; and most striking, its eventual eclipse by the campaign against the “rape culture,” which by 1993 led to an anthology of essays by such American feminists as Gloria Steinem, bell hooks, Andrea Dworkin, and Susan Griffin.

    What is the “rape culture”? Considering how the writers point to everything from religion to sports to (of course) capitalism, we should really ask: What isn’t the “rape culture”? To which only one answer emerges: the feminists themselves. It is only they, their ideas, and their actions that are not in any way indicted. They find guilt everywhere but in the mirror.

    On the face of it, the very concept of a “rape culture” is an absurdity. How does one logically contend that the crimes of sociopaths reflect the values of society? Are we similarly a pedophilia culture, a murder culture, etc.? What, then, do feminists gain from this demonization of everyone else?

    THE WHOLE STORY

  18. The Problem with Porn

    That is one of the lamest, most poorly (and self-referentially) reasoned blog posts on the subject I’ve had the misfortune to read. Seriously.

  19. SADLY, THERE ARE MILLIONS OF AMERICANS WHO DON’T HAVE ACCESS TO QUALITY PORN. NATIONAL PORNCARE CANNOT BE DELAYED ANY LONGER! THE FREE MARKET HAS FAILED ONCE AGAIN.

  20. but isn’t religious/moral repression just a another form of expression? When will it end? You can’t silence the silencers lest you admit you ought to be silenced as well! I say offend and let offend. Just don’t violate my property or my orifices.

    @Xeones
    You wanna see my what!?

  21. Ted Bundy would have been better off being more like Al Bundy.

  22. “Someone who would come to that conclusion already has something pretty fundamental wrong with them…”

    Possibly. I’m not 100% convinced of that. The people who fell in love with torture via “24” don’t fit my definition of mentally ill. But let’s say that it’s true that person has something fundamentally wrong with them…. so what? If more than an insignificant percentage of people have something fundamentally wrong, which seems quiter possible to me(say 3% of people do) then massive exposure to something that makes fundamentally fucked people act out their fundamental fucked-ness might be really bad.

    Excuse my horrible syntax/grammar.

  23. That is one of the lamest, most poorly (and self-referentially) reasoned blog posts on the subject I’ve had the misfortune to read. Seriously.

    Aw, Shirley, you jest.

    Isn’t masturbation just self-referential sex?

  24. What, then, do feminists gain from this demonization of everyone else?

    Smug sense of self importance?

  25. mr. Suderman writes: “Here’s Steven Landsburg summarizing the evidence that porn reduces rape at Slate:”

    I didn’t know Slate had a rape problem. But I am happy that porn is helping reduce it.

  26. NATURALLY, PORNCARE WILL BE PROVIDED BY A NATIONAL CADRE OF GOVERNMENT PORNSTARS. . .THE PIECE CORPS.

  27. I looked at the psychobabble link.

    I’m just glad a woman set herself on fire to stop porn. How dumb can you be? Trying to stop snuff films (which may or may not exist) by snuffing yourself? Ahhh, THAT’s THE SNUFF!

  28. So, Billy, even if only 10% of the those 3% are “incited” to rape by watching porn, you still think that porn should be banned for the rest of us because a few nut jobs can’t handle it? Even if it was closer to 100%, why should that make any difference. If people act upon their fucked-ness, as you say, then the criminal justice system comes into play. Not that there’s anything good about someone being sexually assaulted, but 3% is not a high enough number.

    In addition, what about those who are helped by having access to porn? Can that number possibly be higher than 3%? If so, doesn’t that grant a net benefit?

  29. Even if you believe everything Dreher is saying, he misses the point. So what if porn is bad. Dreher is free to abstain from it and encourage others to do the same. Even if there is nothing good that can come from porn, there is certainly a lot bad, in the form of increasing the police power and reducing our privacy, that comes from banning it. Ultimately, I don’t really care whether porn is good or bad for you. No one has ever made the case that it is so bad that it justifies use of the police power to stop it.

  30. Does More Porn Make Society Better?

    Yes.

    BTW, Suki is forced to make porn video in Suki II and Suki III.

    No, I have not heard from her directly latey either but sh did make a recent blog post.

  31. No one has ever made the case that it is so bad that it justifies use of the police power to stop it.

    The same cannot be said about the half gram of pot you were going to smoke before using the porn though.

    Someday marijuana will be as acceptable or more acceptable than pornography. Moralist assholes will still object.

  32. The feminist complaint against pornography is that no one wants to watch pornography staring them. And any quisling man that agrees either watches porn and is a hypocrite or says he doesn’t watch porn and is a liar.

  33. The feminist complaint against pornography is that no one wants to watch pornography staring them.

    I never met a person in porn who did not like watching their own movies. However, I have only met a few. Sample size is pretty small.

  34. I am not arguing for censorship. At all. My horror-movie heavy rental history, my mounds of death metal albums, and my browsing history would show that I consume plenty of questionable material. But I get a little tired of the people who say that no matter what media you consume and how much of it you pour into you brain it can’t have any ANY bad effect on you. I just think that’s false. Sorry.

  35. I used to work with juvenile offenders, and in the line of that work, I met a psychiatrist who specialized in treating juvenile sex offenders.

    As I recall, part of his therapeutic program was to encourage healthy sexual fantasies in his patients and to discourage fantasies that involved non-consensual sex. He worked at a residential treatment center where they had a libary of soft-core porn mags (I forget if it was Maxim type stuff or Playboy, or harder) for the kids.

    Anyway, to hear him tell it, the type of porn is what mattered. Patients who fixated on certain non-consensual scenarios were more likely to re-offend. Violent porn helped them to fixate on those scenarios and encouraged the drive to act them out for real. If the patient could be diverted to non-aggressive porn, they were more likely to develop appropriate behaviors.

  36. Anyway, to hear him tell it, the type of porn is what mattered. Patients who fixated on certain non-consensual scenarios were more likely to re-offend. Violent porn helped them to fixate on those scenarios and encouraged the drive to act them out for real. If the patient could be diverted to non-aggressive porn, they were more likely to develop appropriate behaviors.

    Good thing I don’t illustrate my books or the feds would be all over my computer.

  37. So, SNUFF = bad, even simulated snuff
    But,
    Consensual Doggy Style will save us all!
    HOORAY!

  38. NATURALLY, PORNCARE WILL BE PROVIDED BY A NATIONAL CADRE OF GOVERNMENT PORNSTARS. . .THE PIECE CORPS.

    So we need a porn czar, right? I nominate me. I will delegate all the homo and transexual porno to Lonewacko. Or i might to a Clockwork-Orange on him and make him watch “Hot Latina Ass #10.” Thats the one where they open Coronas with their ass.

  39. ” Are we similarly a pedophilia culture?”

    Yup.

  40. What about simulated forced triple penetration? Bad or good?

  41. “If more than an insignificant percentage of people have something fundamentally wrong, which seems quiter possible to me(say 3% of people do) then massive exposure to something that makes fundamentally fucked people act out their fundamental fucked-ness might be really bad.”

    So let’s hear about your plan to ban alcohol.

  42. Ultimately, I don’t really care whether porn is good or bad for you. No one has ever made the case that it is so bad that it justifies use of the police power to stop it.

    I assume this means that no one has made a “persuasive” or “compelling” case, etc. Certainly the feds are persuaded that the police power is an appropriate cudgel to use against these “pleasure pimps” (a favorite term of a SoCal right-wing pastor). The feds have made a FEW cases, actually, and quite recently. Max Hardcore is in the pen right now (got four years), and Bob Zacari and Janet Romano, owners of Extreme Associates, entered guilty pleas to bring their years-long case to an end. We don’t yet know how much time they’ll do, but one day is 24 hours too long.

    War on poverty, war on drugs, war on porn … As a liberty-loving wag said a long time ago (and how sad it is that it’s still apropos), “Everything the government does now is called a war, except for war, of course.”

  43. What about simulated forced triple penetration? Bad or good?

    It’s function of how many ingrown hairs are visible when viewing in Hi-rez.

  44. Even if you believe everything Dreher is saying, he misses the point. So what if porn is bad. Dreher is free to abstain from it and encourage others to do the same. Even if there is nothing good that can come from porn, there is certainly a lot bad, in the form of increasing the police power and reducing our privacy, that comes from banning it.

    I think you’re the one missing the point. Dreher *is* abstaining from it and is “encouraging others to do the same.” He is *not* advocating “increasing the police power and reducing our privacy.” Or do you just assume that anyone who says porn is bad is implicitly calling for its legal prohibition?

  45. “Beavis” was me.

  46. “What about simulated forced triple penetration? Bad or good?”

    Works for me.

  47. Bob Zacari and Janet Romano, owners of Extreme Associates, entered guilty pleas to bring their years-long case to an end. We don’t yet know how much time they’ll do, but one day is 24 hours too long.

    Year and a day if i remember correctly

  48. Masochist link. Clickity click at your own risk.

  49. Why dont feminists complain about the REAL problem with hetero porn:

    All the guys ARE HIDEOUSLY UGLY.

    And beyond sleazy looking…making porn films must be the day job of every pit boss in Vegas.

  50. Trying to learn anything (beyond the fact that such people exist) applicable to society in general from exceptional psychopaths like Bundy is stupid and pointless. Almost no one who looks at lots of porn of any type goes out and commits a violent sexual crime. The only reason why people like Bundy do what they do is that they are crazy psychopaths.


  51. Smut!
    Give me smut and nothing but!
    A dirty novel I can’t shut,
    If it’s uncut,
    and unsubt- le.

    I’ve never quibbled
    If it was ribald,
    I would devour where others merely nibbled.
    As the judge remarked the day that he
    acquitted my Aunt Hortense,
    “To be smut
    It must be ut-
    Terly without redeeming social importance.”

    Por-
    Nographic pictures I adore.
    Indecent magazines galore,
    I like them more
    If they’re hard core.

    (Bring on the obscene movies, murals, postcards, neckties,
    samplers, stained-glass windows, tattoos, anything!
    More, more, I’m still not satisfied!)

    Stories of tortures
    Used by debauchers,
    Lurid, licentious, and vile,
    Make me smile.
    Novels that pander
    To my taste for candor
    Give me a pleasure sublime.
    (Let’s face it, I love slime.)

    All books can be indecent books
    Though recent books are bolder,
    For filth (I’m glad to say) is in
    the mind of the beholder.
    When correctly viewed,
    Everything is lewd.
    (I could tell you things about Peter Pan,
    And the Wizard of Oz, there’s a dirty old man!)

    I thrill
    To any book like Fanny Hill,
    And I suppose I always will,
    If it is swill
    And really fil
    thy.

    Who needs a hobby like tennis or philately?
    I’ve got a hobby: rereading Lady Chatterley.
    But now they’re trying to take it all
    away from us unless
    We take a stand, and hand in hand
    we fight for freedom of the press.
    In other words,

    Smut! (I love it)
    Ah, the adventures of a slut.
    Oh, I’m a market they can’t glut,
    I don’t know what
    Compares with smut.

    Hip hip hooray!
    Let’s hear it for the Supreme Court!
    Don’t let them take it away!

    – “Smut” by Tom Lehrer

  52. Porn is only good if you have a thick, 50 IU shot of coke to go with it!

  53. Anectdotal evidence at best. I, as some of you may be aware, am a little touched in the head at times. I view/have viewed a hole lotta porn in the last 30 years. With and without the wife and various girlfriends before marriage. Does it get me all riled up? yup. Do I force myself on the wife? nope. Do I then run out the door and rape the shit outta the first orifice that wanders by? Nope. never have. It never crossed my twisted mind that it was an option.

    My conclusion: some people are just fucked up in the head. Bundy was a brilliant psycopath that may well have said those things just to fuck with more people.

  54. Billy!: I am not arguing for censorship. At all.

    Skip Trace in response to Billy!: So let’s hear about your plan to ban alcohol.

    Skip, let’s hear about your plan for banning all political speech.

  55. brotherben, you scary, stay away from my orifi

  56. All the guys ARE HIDEOUSLY UGLY.

    Porn is generally for guys and that is part of the fantasy. If that hot chick will bang ugly guys for money, imagine what she will do for a guy she actually likes!

    Which is why I find it hilarious to hear women talk about all the things they won’t do. I tend to tell them: “What a significant number of women will do for money, you won’t do for love? That shows how little your love is worth.”

    They tend to not like hearing that.

  57. I remember my first year of college; Kent State ’84, the campus woman’s group was all upset that the campus bookstore carried Playboy. They successfully got it banned. They cited the campus rapes that had been occurring (every university’s dirty little secret). Did the rapes stop? Nope.

    Camera got them images
    Camera got them all
    Nothing’s shocking…
    Showed me everybody
    Naked and disfigured
    Nothing’s shocking…
    And then he came
    Now sister’s
    Not a virgin anymore
    Her sex is violent…

    The T.V.’s got them images
    T.V.’s got them all
    It’s not shocking!
    Every half an hour
    Someone’s captured and
    The cop moves them along…
    It’s just like the show before
    The news is
    Just another show
    With sex and violence…

    Sex is violent…
    Sex is violent…
    Sex is violent…
    Sex is violent…
    Sex is violent…
    Sex is violent…
    Sex is violent!

    I am the killer of people
    You look like a meatball
    I’ll throw away your toothpick
    And ask for your giveness

    Because of this thing!
    Because of this thing!
    Because of this thing!

    That’s in me
    Is it not in you?
    Is it not your problem?
    A baby to a mother…

    You talk too much
    To your scapegoat
    That’s what I say
    He tells you everyone is stupid
    That’s what he thinks!

    Snapshots
    Make a girl look cheap
    Like a tongue extended
    A baby’s to a mother

    Sex is violent!
    Sex is violent!
    Sex is violent!
    Sex is violent!

    – Perry Farrell

  58. I view/have viewed a hole lotta porn in the last 30 years.

    Best. RC. Ever.

  59. Quick scroll through the feministing link turned up:

    I agree there’s a social stigma against female masturbation.

  60. FN,

    “Quick scroll through the feministing link turned up:

    I agree there’s a social stigma against female masturbation.

    No stigma against it in my house. Now, if I could just get a new one to come over and do it . . .

  61. Quick scroll through the feministing link turned up

    Go back and read the KSM posts. Being married to her must be like punching yourself in the nuts every half-an-hour.

  62. Haven’t the last 10 years pretty much conclusively debunked the feminist theory that porn is about the domination and objectification of women?

    Because as soon as digital cameras and camcorders became broad-based consumer items, millions of women started letting people photograph them nude and record them engaging in sex acts for free.

    Porn was supposed to be the way patriarchal capitalism exploited poor and vulnerable women in order to demean and objectify all women, blah blah blah. How did patriarchal capitalism get all these women to put themselves into free porn?

    I would have to ask Dreher: if it’s “inarguable” that porn doesn’t do anyone any good, how do you explain “sexting”?

  63. F,

    Because as soon as digital cameras and camcorders became broad-based consumer items, millions of women started letting people photograph them nude and record them engaging in sex acts for free.

    If I recall the feminist answert ot that it is because the male dominated society has brainwashed some women into thinking they must do that for others.

  64. We must be damned good at brainwashing, huh? Going by what all of these women are doing on the Internet.

    What’s funny is how sexual inhibitions and promiscuity are simultaneously praised as liberating and condemned as victimizing by feminists.

  65. Make that lack of sexual inhibitions. Sorry.

  66. “Skip, let’s hear about your plan for banning all political speech.”

    Billy, ” If more than an insignificant percentage of people have something fundamentally wrong, which seems quiter possible to me(say 3% of people do) then massive exposure to something that makes fundamentally fucked people act out their fundamental fucked-ness might be really bad.”

    Skip, “So let’s hear about your plan to ban alcohol.”

    About 10% of Americans are alcoholics (or so I’ve often heard), way above Bliiy’s 3%.

    I would posit that massive exposure to alcohol makes fundamentally fucked people act out their fundamental fucked-ness.

    Granted, Billy didn’t advocate banning all alcohol, but that’s where this shit is heading vis-avis porn and violent movies given that studies are being conducted and concluding these activities are bad…

  67. This thread had been hanging on post 69 for some time……

  68. I didn’t advocate banning anything. I was just saying that watching Cannibal Holocaust while jerkin’ it to Super Facials 37, as your afternoon after-work relaxation, might not be the best thing even if your in tip top mental health. (If your screwy in the head it’s probably even worse.) I think it’d be good for fans of free speech to admit that.

    But hey i could be wrong. Perhaps a good Cannibal/Facial jerk s

  69. (continued)
    session is exactly what we all need.

  70. If I recall the feminist answert ot that it is because the male dominated society has brainwashed some women into thinking they must do that for others.

    You know, that mindset reflects a dated, 1950’s view of female sexuality where pretty much the only reason hetero females engage in anything sexual is out of a sense of duty to men.

    It’s also belied by the sheer slutterific joy in exhibitionism that appears endemic among American females below the age of 25.

    If you read the “late feminist” complaints about, say, “Girls Gone Wild”, they bitch quite a bit about the fact that if you strip for the camera for laughs and attention when you’re 19, it might come back to haunt you during a job search when you’re 30. This pretty much confirms that they know that “Digital Generation” women like to do this stuff, and they’re trying to discourage them from it by urging prudence. But they are unwilling to acknowledge what this means for the rest of their worldview and paradigm of heterosexual activity.

  71. Well, Skip, I guess what you just gave us was your plan for banning all intellectual inquiry, possibly to be followed by banning all morals.

  72. Yeah, YouPorn doesnt help Dreher’s argument.

    But it sure helps mine, i.e. that all men in porn–paid or volunteer workers–are UGLY.

    In fact if you click through enough Youporn, which I did one day because I was told a co-worker had submitted a video– you get the impression the women are the ones doing the directing.

    Not that it really helps; talk about unintentional comedy. I haven’t seen such inept sex since high school.

    In fact, regular YouPorn viewing may actually neutralize all the bad things Dreher is worried about.

  73. Actually, amateur porn goes a long way towards proving that anyone convicted of obscenity back in the day deserves to have their conviction vacated.

    You really appreciate the actual craft of pre-internet professional porn when you compare it to the amateur stuff. How could that kind of display of craft be held by our courts to have no redeeming value?

    The amateur stuff makes the pre-internet pro stuff look like Barry Lyndon by comparison.

  74. “Well, Skip, I guess what you just gave us was your plan for banning all intellectual inquiry, possibly to be followed by banning all morals.”

    Or I could just fuck your mother again.

  75. Does More Porn Make Society Better?

    Absofuckinglutely.

    Think of the 10 shittiest countries. None of them have porn.

  76. I view/have viewed a hole lotta porn in the last 30 years.

    Best. RC. Ever.

    Beat me to it, Sug.

  77. Witty, Skip. Nice burn. You got me. I am devastated. Ouch. It really smarts. I am sobbing as I type this. My keyboard is reborn in a baptism of tears. Shame. Shame is my new name. This is even worse than my weekly taint withering. Far, far worse. Far worse. Far. Worse. Far, far, far worse. It’s bad.

    Tell Mom, “hi!” for me, would ya?

  78. I’m sure you’re right, Fluffy. The Golden Age of Porn has passed.

    This new generation of filmmakers just can’t EDIT.

    They’ll waste five minutes of video trying to figure out how the condom works (some will even stop to READ THE INSTRUCTIONS!) or theyll accidentally fall into the crack of the pushed-together twin beds, or some cheesy lamp will fall on the guy’s head.

    Then there’s always the guy who takes forever to find the correct, uh, “receptacle” and his exasperated co-star gets pissed and starts yelling at him!

    Clearly, the cutting room floor never needs to be swept in the new millennium.

  79. What kind of porn did Bundy watch? Mainstream porn has no violence at all, so how could it have worn away at his inhibitions to commit violence? Even the more extreme BDSM stuff isn’t violent. If Bundy really did say that, and this isn’t some fabrication of the feminist echo chamber, it suggests he’s either lying or clueless.

  80. I invoke rule 34 on Peter Suderman

  81. who ever that is

  82. Bob Smith

    The State of Florida gave some fundamentalist preacher on an anti-porn crusade access to Ted Bundy just before he was executed. Bundy played the guy like a pro angler with a trophy marlin.

    I don’t know what Ted actually told the guy but the story he (the preacher) told basically said that Bundy would never have murdered all those women if it hadn’t been for porn.

    Ted Bundy was a skilled manipulator to the last.

  83. I think this is the value that ancient Romans saw in the circus.

  84. If you’re going to spend your life with Megan McArdle, it can’t hurt.

  85. No. I think it’s psychologically unhealthy and way too accessible to children.

    I don’t think censorship is necessary, but I wish there was basic age verification. It’s the difference between selling alcohol to anyone and IDing them at the counter.

    From my own experience, I think the idea that men NEED sex is a myth. I’m fine without it, just as I was as a boy.

  86. Correlation vs. Causation

    http://xkcd.com/552/

  87. David is a strange name for a girl.

  88. David | July 16, 2009, 4:32am | #

    From my own experience, I think the idea that men NEED sex is a myth. I’m fine without it, just as I was as a boy.

    Unfortunately, your parents didn’t feel the same way.

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  90. “Needless to say, none of this is proof positive. Correlation does not prove causation.”

    Yep, that’s exactly right. And before being too quick to embrace the Dahl study, one needs to note that studies using *exactly* this line of reasoning back in the 80s were trotted out to “prove” porn increased rates of sexual violence. I believe the claim was states with the highest porn sales were the ones with the highest rates of reported rapes. I believe it also turned out that these were also the states with the highest percentage of single men.

    Melissa Farley did a similarly dodgy correlational study a couple years ago to “prove” that legalized prostitution had caused increased sexual violence in that state.

    In other words, correlational studies cut both ways, but in themselves, don’t really tell you much, in any event.

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  92. I hope you will join me in my quest to have all kitchen appliances banned from homes where there are small children. I’m sure everyone is aware that virtually all violent criminals confess that they grew up in homes with kitchen appliances. I believe we can stop this evil at its root. Only in the case of Cain and Abel were there no kitchen appliances. Those boys must have been watching Grand Theft Auto.

  93. I hope you will join me in my quest to have all kitchen appliances banned from homes where there are small children. I’m sure everyone is aware that virtually all violent criminals confess that they grew up in homes with kitchen appliances. I believe we can stop this evil at its root. Only in the case of Cain and Abel were there no kitchen appliances. Those boys must have been watching Grand Theft Auto.

  94. Honestly I believe that our world would be better without porn. It dulls the senses toward sex, can become very habit forming, pervades the mind into thinking its practices are “normal”, makes men and woman sex objects, causes insecurities among the masses that consume it (both male and female), leaves a person always wanting more (never truely satisfies), pushes the envelope through taboo causing the customer to need to look at harder forms to reach the same feelings, breaks up relationships, ruins the lives of those that are working in its industry (shockingly high suicide rates, drug addictions and incurable STD’s among porn stars), studies have shown it increases negativity and aggression/violence toward women by both habitual male and female viewers. Need I say more? It is a drain on society, all the money that goes into that industry could be going into better more productive things like education, feeding the starving, helping sick people that cannot afford medical care, ect… I was first exposed to porn at a very young age by my friends and men either in my family or close to my family. I thought that it was normal. I was 13 when I discovered my Uncle’s hardcore porn collection, at the age of 15-16 he would show me porn sometimes and watch it with me on the computer, the one barber at the barber shop would show me graphic magazines of “girls eating cum” when I was an early teen as well. So after being exposed to porn at such a young age and thinking it was normal I eventually found myself fixated on it and masterbation. I never thought I had a problem until I started to notice that I couldn’t stop around my early 20’s. Im almost 30 and still struggle with its use and hate it. I hate that I was ever exposed to it (especially at such a young age and by grown men), I hate that I can’t stop watching it, I hate that I want to be with these unrealistic women. It is a drain and the fact is I have never met anyone that has ever thought highly of it and could convince me that there is any positive benefit from it other that “reaching an orgasm fast”.

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