Gov. Mark Sanford Presser: Live Apology Coming for Argentine Trip…and Marital Infidelity

GOP Gov. of South Carolina Mark Sanford is apologizing live on TV for going to Argentina and for something else that he is stringing out in a press conference right now…

Continuous updates:…

… is now talking roundabout about sin and God's laws, but with no specifics yet…

…"the bottom line is that I've been unfaithful to my wife…"

…now asking for a zone of privacy…

…he will tender his resignation as head of the Republican Governors Association…

…will stay on as governor of South Carolina.

Now taking questions…

To the extent that this all destroys Sanford's awesome credibility on the need to cut spending and government intervention, it's a real loss for the limited-government side.

Reason on Sanford.

More updates/first reactions from around the Web:

From National Review's The Corner:

Romney by Elimination?   [Rich Lowry]

First Ensign, then the "Crying in Argentina" press conference. If Republicans want a presidential candidate who lives clean and whose family hasn't been involved in tabloid scandals, it might soon be Mitt Romney by process of elimination.

06/24 03:04 PM

Sanford   [Mike Potemra]

This dramatic news conference was the first time I had ever watched him, and he came across as a very sincere, humble, and impressive person. If you come across this well on the worst day of your life, you must be doing something right. Is his political career "over"? I frankly don't care about that. I'm just glad to have seen somebody standing up and doing the right thing, being honest about sin and responsibility.

06/24 02:57 PM

The New Republic:

I still say it shouldn't be nearly as disqualifying as turning down badly needed stimulus money. An affair is wrong but understandable. Turning down the money is wrong and bats**t crazy.

--Noam Scheiber

The American Spectator:

Based on what we know right now, there is absolutely no reason that this situation needed to be a political disaster for Sanford. If he simply could have provided any kind of excuse or shown any of the forethought with which politicians usually plot their dalliances, he still would be a 2012 contender for the Republican nomination. Either he really is that clueless, or there's even more to the story that we don't know right now. (Joseph Lawler)

Andrew Sullivan:

Dog Bites Man

Another far-right Republican confesses to an extra-marital affair. Not the most effective way to keep it under wraps: disappearing for days with no notice. But it's important to remember at these moments that we're all human. I just wish the GOP leadership would apply that lesson to everyone else.

Michelle Malkin:

Bastard

By Michelle Malkin  •  June 24, 2009 02:54 PM

It's the only fitting word for a man who abandons his wife and four sons on Father's Day weekend to indulge his "overdrive" on an Argentinian fling.

Mark Sanford: Bastard.

Comments

[hmm]

He's banging another chick.

[John]

..."the bottom line is that I've been unfaithful to my wife..."

In Argintina? WTF?

[mk]

Isn't the "zone of privacy" that thing from Get Smart

[Xeones]

..."the bottom line is that I've been unfaithful to my wife..."

Oopsie!

[Geotpf]

Are we sure she's actually a chick? Heck, is he sure?

[hmm]

That's a long way to go for a piece of ass.

[Cal Lipigian]

He seems more upset about letting down his spiritual advisor, "Cubby", than hurting his family.

[Spoonman]

Now that is funny shit.

[hmm]

He's said she several times.

[Mike]

Damn, he was the most libertarian of the Republican nominee front runners. Which means we're more likely to get a big government type like McCain or Huckabee.

[zero]

Yo, Gov. Sanford fucked this chick in Argentina.

[Xeones]

Damn, he was the most libertarian of the Republican nominee front runners.

Gary Johnson Gary Johnson Gary Johnson Gary Johnson COME ON GARY JOHNSON

[mike]

theres still a long time to bounce back..

[Matthew]

His career is done, both locally and nationally.

[WWJGD]

Huckabee/Palin 2012
Thank god the world ends in Dec, 2012.

He could spin this right if the chick turns out to be a non-tranny hottie.

[P Brooks]

To the extent that this all destroys Sanford's awesome credibility on the need to cut spending and government intervention

In a more perfect world (like the one inside my head) this wouldn't have any bearing whatsoever on Sanford's ability to call out reckless deficit spending.

[B]

Yeah jeez come on a major Republican pol likes girls. What a novelty. Esp if she's hot, he could spin this into a major win.

[ChrisH]

? Don't Lie For Me, Argentina... ?

[brotherben]

The Obamachine rolls over another future opponent. HAHAHAHAHAHAHA

[Pro Libertate]

Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!

Well, that's one libertarianish candidate down. And yes, this will likely be enough to undo him in the primaries, assuming he's going to run at all now.

[ChrisH]

Wasn't it said that he was "hiking the Appalachian Trail"?

Is that what kids are calling it nowadays?

[Episiarch]

Pix plz thx

That was pretty stupid of him, considering he was a rising star. Now he and John Edwards can form a support group, but Spitzer isn't allowed.

[Tricky Prickears]

I'd be willing to put money on that she was one of his housekeepers that was deported.

[P Brooks]

"Governor, Gary Hart is on line two."

[Zeb]

Why can't politicians shut the fuck up about sin and God and their personal lives and deal with things that are in the proper scope of government? Even this guy who seems so good in many ways never gives it a rest. If he is a Christian, good for him, I guess. I don't need to hear about it.

[hmm]

He had ok policy and it's clear he had some support from his base for his policies. Why cry over him leaving? Look to use the supportive base to get someone who is more libertarian minded in the position he will be vacating. Looks like small loss with a large opportunity to me.

[hmm]

SC is a largely socially conservative. You will hear god and sin 24/7 there.

[ed]

A trainwreck that kept on giving.
Time to leave, Mr. Governor. Sir? Time to go. Please, sir. Good God, stop talking!

[Bingo]

Ugh...

So that leaves Gary Johnson and... is there anyone else in the GOP with libertarian credentials that can run for Pres in 2012?

[brotherben]

Just once, I want to see one of these self-righteous fucks turned into a pillar of salt as they tearfully express their sinfulness and profound renewal of faith.

Okay, maybe more than once.

[ed]

Oh, and Keith Olbermann just had the best wet dream of his life.

[Howee]

Xeones: Gov. Johnson had his own marital difficulties, divorcing his wife- because he had become involved w/ another woman- in '05, with his ex-wife dying in '06.

Jes sayin' is all...

[swillfredo pareto]

His career is done, both locally and nationally.

Agreed. Just look at what nailing everybody but his wife did to Bill Clinton.

[B]

It remains odd how polticians can get away with all sorts of crimes well documented on Hit & Run but a little consensual bumpin' and you have to go. Vat a guntry!

[John]

I only have two questions about politicians running around on their wives; does she work for them? and is she hot? If she was an employee, ala Monica Lewinski, that is pretty scummy and I can't really ignore that. If she is ugly, that just means he is a horndog who has no control over his impulses and can't be trusted. But, if she was hot and not in a subordinate relationship to him, C'est la vie.

As far as him disapearing for a few days, we could do a lot worse than a politician who goes away once in a while.

[?]

is there anyone else in the GOP with libertarian credentials that can run for Pres in 2012?

Graded against the curve of politicians who actually exist, and based on what she's actually done (not on what people imagine she must have done because she's un-cosmo), Palin is the most libertarian candidate the Republicans have put up in decades.

[ThatGuy]

Bingo | June 24, 2009, 2:52pm | #
Ugh...

So that leaves Gary Johnson and... is there anyone else in the GOP with libertarian credentials that can run for Pres in 2012?

Well, Donderroooo was always fond of Palin. She turned down some of the Fed's cash! Yeah, that's all I got.

[Solana]

Fuck.

[James Ard]

It's going to be Mitch Daniels in 2012. The day after I figured that out, Byron York had a puff piece on him, and I've also seen another one recently. He apologized to graduates in a commencement speech for being a binge speanding baby boomer, and that's all I need to hear.

[Episiarch]

Well, Donderroooo was always fond of Palin.

Dondero had a raging hard-on for Palin. And he'll kick your ass, too.

(Let's see if that summons him.)

[John]

"Palin is the most libertarian candidate the Republicans have put up in decades."

And the libertarians tore her apart becuase she just wasn't cool enough. And they also found out she once worked to get the town she was mayor of to build a hockey rink. I recall much outrage over that hockey rink.

[Enough About Palin]

"To the extent that this all destroys Sanford's awesome credibility on the need to cut spending and government intervention, it's a real loss for the limited-government side."

That's exactly why MLK holds no credibility with me whatsoever regarding race issues. I mean, he had an affair!

[Xeones]

Well, shit, Howee.

[The Angry Optimist]

I didn't care about the hockey rink. I thought the gossipy, National Inquirer-esque shitstorm that the media pulled out of its ass was disgusting, but she turned me off for being...dumb. That's just it, she did not come across as smart.

your answer to what periodicals do you read is..."all of them"? I mean, WTF?

it's been said *ahem* elsewhere, but she was brought up from the minor leagues too early.

[John]

I would love it if he would have, rather than groveling, told the media to fuck off that whatever happened in Argintina is between him and his wife. Just once I would like to see someone tell the media to shove it.

[TrickyVic]

"""GOP Gov. of South Carolina Mark Sanford is apologizing live on TV for going to Argentina """

Argentina must be her last name.

""""Agreed. Just look at what nailing everybody but his wife did to Bill Clinton."""

It drew the ire of republicans, some of which were doing a similar thing, albeit in less volume. Bill Clinton's career is fine.

[SugarFree]

(Let's see if that summons him.)

"Real libertarians think Amurica should bomb the shit outta dem brown fellers"

Quoting the motto of his shitty site should get him here. I won't put up the pic of the girl getting ready fuck the flag-horse.

[ed]

I don't get it. Have Democrats stopped having sex?

[Episiarch]

I would love it if he would have, rather than groveling, told the media to fuck off that whatever happened in Argintina is between him and his wife.

Did you say the same thing about Edwards, John?

[John]

"it's been said *ahem* elsewhere, but she was brought up from the minor leagues too early."

That is true. They also did a shitty job preparing her. It is like the whole "what experience do you have dealing with a foreign country" question. Ah Hello, Alaska has like a 500 mile border with Canada. It is a the largest border state and not because you can see Russia accross the straights. Any governor of a large border state has a lot of experience in the every day emergency management, trade, crime and customs end of international relations. He handlers should have had her giving answers about that experience. They did a terrible job preparing her. But the entire McCain campaign was pretty much not ready for prime time.

[Dr. Kenneth Noisewater]

Palin is the most libertarian candidate the Republicans have put up in decades.

In other words... no, the Republicans don't have anyone with libertarian credentials to run for Pres in 2012.

[brotherben]

It's hard to tell the media to piss off when they can make or break your career.

[Xeones]

I won't put up the pic of the girl getting ready fuck the flag-horse.

How come?

[John]

"Did you say the same thing about Edwards, John?"

Did I miss Stanford banging one of his subordinates and having a bastard child? If it had just been a question of Edwards banging someone discretly on the side, that is exactly what I would have said.

[Enough About Palin]

"Isn't the "zone of privacy" that thing from Get Smart"

Cone of Silence

[SugarFree]

How come?

I'm just too classy, you cockfarter.

[Episiarch]

Did I miss Stanford banging one of his subordinates and having a bastard child?

Hunter wasn't a subordinate, her production company was hired to do some short films. This isn't like him banging someone he has significant power over.

[Kevin]

Great. Just in time to dominate the news cycle and provide Obama with cover while he overhauls the financial, health care, energy, tobacco, and sex toy industries.

[John]

I will say this. How exactly did he think he could, as the governor of a state, get away with runnning off to Argintina for a three day booty call? I don't care about the affair. But I really have to wonder about his judgment if he honestly thought that this was a good idea or something that he could do without anyone noticing.

[John]

Again, Epi, did I miss the part where Stanford has the bastard child?

[SugarFree]

John,

Did I miss Stanford banging one of his subordinates and having a bastard child?

I don't know if I'd call Hunter a subordinate. She was a campaign staffer. That's a bit like trying to call a fluffer a porn star. I pretty sure campaign staff exist solely for the candidate to randomly fuck.

Edwards just forgot the number one rule of politician sex: either hump the poop chute or the laugh-hole.

[brotherben]

Suge, that is also known as the Barney Frank rule.

[brotherben]

NTTAWWT

[hmm]

Agreed. Just look at what nailing everybody but his wife did to Bill Clinton.

No one could blame the guy for that. Seriously even women recognize a dead fish when they see one. Who would hold not porking that wife against anyone.

[SugarFree]

Stanford at least went to a country with hot chicks. I've met one or two fine-looking Argentinians. And they don't have a huge number of transwomen like Brazil.

[Sully]

well, at least he's not a homo... we think.

[brotherben]

Just in, Haley Barbour is the replacement for Sanford as the head of the Rep Govs association.

[SugarFree]

Suge, that is also known as the Barney Frank rule.

Usually expressed as the phrase: give her a good franking.

[Pendulum]

Se?orita Nina, from Argentina, knew all the answers
Though her relatives and friends were perfect dancers
She swore she'd never dance a step until she died

She said, "I've seen too many movies, and all they prove is too idiotic.
They all insist that South America's exotic
Whereas it couldn't be more boring if it tried."

She added firmly that she hated
The sound of soft guitars beside a still lagoon
She also positively stated
That she could not abide a Southern moon

She said "I hate to be pedantic but I'm driven nearly frantic
When I see that unromantic, sycophantic lot of sluts
Forever wriggling their guts.
It drives me absolutely nuts."

[Pendulum]

Se?orita Nina, from Argentina, despised the Tango
Although she never was a girl to let a man go
She wouldn't sacrifice her principles for sex.

She looked with scorn on the gyrations
Of her relations who danced the conga
And swore that if she had to stand it any longer
She'd lose all dignity and ring their silly necks.

She said that frankly she was blinded
To all the over advertised romantic charms
And then she got more bloody minded
And told them where to put their tropic palms.

And she could not refrain from saying that their idiotic swaying
And those damned guitarras playing were an insult to her race
And that she really couldn't face
Such international disgrace

[SugarFree]

Haley Barbour? Well, at least Boss Hogg won't try and run for President.

[BMG]

How difficult is it NOT to cheat on your wife?! I mean really- unless you're married to a harridan like Hillary (I think almost anyone would give Bill a pass on that) how diffcult is it for these guys?

WTF?

[shrike]

Conservatives are all hypocritical scum. The day psuedo-libertarians stop promoting these theocratic assholes as saviours of the Liberty movement will be the day the LP obtains a fucking ounce of credibility again.

[Seitz]

Again, Epi, did I miss the part where Stanford has the bastard child?

I suppose the three possible responses to this (besides pointing out that his name has no T) are:

1) Let's give it nine months;
2) You would prefer that Edwards and paramour had aborted the fetus; and/or
3) What fucking difference does it make?

I mean really, extramarital sex is all fine and dandy, but when shit happens and she ends up pregnant, well, that's a WHOLE 'NOTHER BALLGAME!

John continues to be a disingenuous GOP shill.

[John]

BMG,

If you were in a powerful position and had hot chicks throwing themselves at you on a daily basis, you might find it harder than you think.

The media is so pathetic. When the John Edwards thing broke it was all about Edwards and said nothing about his views on government. But the Stanford thing breaks and it is a blow to the credibility of small government advocates everywhere. I hate those fuckers.

[DeepOmega]

Wasn't it said that he was "hiking the Appalachian Trail"?

Is that what kids are calling it nowadays?

This is all just a misunderstanding - his staff heard him incorrectly. He actually said he was spending the weekend "on some Argentinean tail."

[John]

"I mean really, extramarital sex is all fine and dandy, but when shit happens and she ends up pregnant, well, that's a WHOLE 'NOTHER BALLGAME!

John continues to be a disingenuous GOP shill."

And you are fucking moron. I think having an affair is a bit different than having a bastard. By your logic, getting drunk and driving and getting arrested at a traffic stop should be punished the same as getting drunk and driving and killing someone. Yes, the actual consequences of your actions as opposed to the potential consequences mean something. Anyone with an IQ above room temperature knows that.

Are you really that stupid or are you just pretending.

[Boston]

People say, you know, "Mark, you're kind of adulterer," you know, and they say it as if it's an evil word, like you're a communist or something. I'm like: Throw me in that briar patch ? I've been accused of being a adulterer and I wear it as a badge of honor.

[John]

Seitz,

You definitely are not pretending. You really are that stupid. And fuck off to.

[Ska]

BMG - you make it sound like regular dudes don't cheat on their wives. A lot of people cheat on their spouses. I'm not saying it's cool to do, but it certainly isn't rare or limited to any type of people (other than philanderers).

[Lost_In_Translation]

I will say this. How exactly did he think he could, as the governor of a state, get away with runnning off to Argintina for a three day booty call?

Seriously, that is what Vegas or more generally Nevada is for. He should have followed the motto similar to "Buy American", known as "Fuck American".

Though I'll admit, going to Argentina for a booty call is a better use of my tax dollars than most of the crap politicians usually spend it on. I can support international panty raids more than buying more bibles for bobby.

[SugarFree]

The scandal of the Edwards affair wasn't the subordinate or the kid, it was the media blackout about it all. How long did the Washington post know about it? Weeks, I think. The National Fucking Enquirer was a more credible news source at that point than the MSM.

And the Democratic talking points were disingenuous in the extreme: "Why should anyone care? He's not running for anything any longer."

John will attest that I'm not a Republican.

[The Angry Optimist]

The one time in my life I'm inclined to agree with Michelle Malkin. This is how politics twists people: either the wife knew and was playing along "for the sake of appearances", or she didn't know and Sanford just put their business on Main Street...because of politics.

Sorry, John, but Seitz has your number. Why is "cheating" OK, but "cheating that results in a child" somehow morally reprehensible?

[Fascitis Necrotizante]

HE DISRESPECTED OUR SACRED FATHERS' DAY

[shrike]

NOTE:

Sanford = conservative theocrat Teabagger
Stanford = fraud Ponzi con-man

I know its easy to confuse the two but notice the "t" that makes the difference.

[Seamus]

I will say this. How exactly did he think he could, as the governor of a state, get away with runnning off to Argintina for a three day booty call? I don't care about the affair. But I really have to wonder about his judgment if he honestly thought that this was a good idea or something that he could do without anyone noticing.

Exactly. I understand how, as Andrew Sullivan is quoted as saying, we're all human, and problems keeping one's zipper up are rather endemic among politicians. Most of them, however, know enough to try to do their tomcatting around discreetly. (Even Senator Wide Stance, while he got caught, sought out blowjobs anonymously, in places and circumstances where he had at least *some* chance of getting away with it.) But it takes a special kind of lack of impulse control, and total oblivion to likely consequences, to disappear off for several days to Argent-freaking-tina, abandoning your family and your job, missing Father's Day while you're at it, and inspiring a "where is he" media frenzy.

I was once with an organization whose board fired the CEO after he disappeared for only a couple of days on what turned out to be a drunken bender. The Board, not unreasonably, expected its CEO ought to be available to do his job and not just disappear because he couldn't control his cravings. I don't know why the people of South Carolina shouldn't hold Sanford to a similar standard. And believe me, I don't want anyone like this to have a finger on a nuclear trigger, which is why my support for him for president in 2012 just evaporated.

All I can say is, it better have been one outstandingly hot piece of ass.

[Seitz]

I think having an affair is a bit different than having a bastard.

It's not like you get to choose between the two, asshole.

So answer my question. Would you have preferred it if Edwards had the fetus aborted? You do know that people take precautions to avoid having kids and still get pregnant right? The drunk driving analogy is fucking ridiculous. First, we're not arguing punishment. Second, I'm sure his wife and kids will be quite relieved that his Argentinian tail didn't get pregnant (assuming she didn't get pregnant). I mean, I'm sure that makes the whole thing much easier for them to swallow. That's also probably why I always see talking about how awful a person Dan Burton is.

You definitely are not pretending. You really are that stupid. And fuck off to.

Well, I'm not really sure how I'll ever recover from that.

[Pro Libertate]

The problem for Sanford now, of course, is that he's a Republican. Because he's a libertarian in a number of respects, the morality issue will make him weak to the social conservatives. He could overcome this in the next few years, but the whole disappearance followed by confession looks a little weird. America dislikes weird.

[Seamus]

You definitely are not pretending. You really are that stupid. And fuck off to.

Hey, John, while Seitz is away fucking off, why don't you go back to first grade and re-take that lesson about the different spellings of "to," "too," and "two"?

[Episiarch]

Again, Epi, did I miss the part where Stanford has the bastard child?

Who gives a shit? And you don't know he doesn't have a bun in the oven.

Look, I don't think extra-marital affairs have much to do with one's policy, but the way it works is that it generally derails your career. You said Sanford should tell the media to suck it, but you never said the same thing about Edwards.

[R C Dean]

As far as him disapearing for a few days, we could do a lot worse than a politician who goes away once in a while.

The bad part is when they come back.

Oh, and DeepOmega totally won the thread at 33:35 pm.

[Robbie Clark]

I can't get over how fucking stupid the woman from The New Republic. I know that place totally sucks, but that comment blew my mind.

[Robbie Clark]

I for one wish my entire city, state and federal governments would leave the country for a few days unannounced. And not provide any means to reach them either. I don't know why people got so upset about that.

[Xeones]

Oh yeah -- shut the fuck up, Noam Scheiber, you fuck. And shrike, take your meds.

[The Angry Optimist]

Robbie, I somehow doubt you would like the people who step into that power vacuum, or the methods they use to do so.

[chukmaty]

Nikolas Sarkhozy can divorce and re marry no problem, and JFK can have drug frenzied orgies... but apparently if your a libertarian you can't have a romantic stroll on a south American beach?

---
In all seriousness, he should be ashamed of himself for hurting his wife and family like this, and for lying to the citizens of his great state.

I would rather have Huckabee anyways, he is more Reaganesch and has great communication skills. I never was completely sold on Sanford, but stuff like this is always sad.

[Greek Chorus]

Hubris, hubris, hubris...

[Robbie Clark]

It would be hard for it to be worse TAO. I mean that too.

[The Angry Optimist]

uh, have you looked at the world around you lately? I think that, if you think your political leaders couldn't be worse, you have a warped, if not solipsistic, perspective.

[democratsarefascists]

Don't care.

Especially since the fascist Democrats desperately want me to.

They've overplayed this card to the point where it's meaningless.

Ever since Bill Clinton, it's been meaningless. They saw to that.

So to the Nazi Andrew Sullivan, I say, "try again."

[ChicagoTom]

First, I would like to at least applaud Sanford for not forcing his poor wife to have to stand by him at his presser ala Spitzer.

He says he met this woman 8 years ago.

About 18 months ago, Sanford went to Argentina

Sanford, in a brief interview in the nation's busiest airport, said he has been to the city twice before, most recently about a year and half ago during a Commerce Department trip.

How much taxpayer money has been spent on Sanford's indiscretions?

[Robbie Clark]

The government at all levels (I live in New Orleans so this is quite true) is populated by liars, thieves, and murderers. So yea, I stand by what I said.

But your point is still stupid, in the absence of government you'd probably be right that really bad people would step up to fill the vacancy, but you stop there, which doesn't make sense. Would people not oppose the rise to power of the evil types? Would good people not fight against the power grab?

[mantooth]

Robbie,

I don't know, lets all head to Somalia and find out.

[The Angry Optimist]

so, Robbie, your argument is:

The government at all levels...is populated by liars, thieves, and murderers.

Presumably, these are evil things. If they aren't, I don't know what would be. But then you say:

Would people not oppose the rise to power of the evil types? Would good people not fight against the power grab?

And then my rejoinder to that would be, "Are they currently?"

Look, by your own admission, you think government is staffed by evil types. So it would be a good thing to create a power vacuum because...people would oppose the rise of "evil types"...even though that's who occupies government currently (according to you).

[Robbie Clark]

Have you heard of the American Revolution mantooth?

[John]

"So answer my question. Would you have preferred it if Edwards had the fetus aborted? You do know that people take precautions to avoid having kids and still get pregnant right? The drunk driving analogy is fucking ridiculous. First, we're not arguing punishment. Second, I'm sure his wife and kids will be quite relieved that his Argentinian tail didn't get pregnant (assuming she didn't get pregnant). I mean, I'm sure that makes the whole thing much easier for them to swallow. That's also probably why I always see talking about how awful a person Dan Burton is."

You going to tell me that running off for a few days with some woman is the same thing as having a kid that you are paying what amounts to blackmail money to mother. Is Sanford luckier than Edwards? Probably but so what. Again, it is the consequences of the action that matter. As far as the abortion goes, last I looked abortion was legal. If the mother of his kid decided to have one, that is not really mine or anyone else's business. They say consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds for a reason. Mostly because small minded people like you can't see the diference between two similiar acts that result in vastly different consequences.

As far as Dan Burton goes, what does he have to do with the price of tea in China? Last I looked he lost his position as House Speaker. But it was ten years ago, no one remembers him and I haven't said anything about him.

Lastly, I slam on Republicans on here all the time. Wipe the drool off of your face and find something else to write about. Edwards is not the same as Sanford. And even if he were, I defy you to find anywhere were I said having a bastard disqualfied Edwards from anything. Edwards was disqualfied by virtue of having stupid ideas and being an all around sleazebag who got rich lying to juries.

[Lost_In_Translation]

mantooth,

I get to be head pirate!

[The Angry Optimist]

er, John, the saying is, "a foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds".

and, yeah, you still haven't answered why moral condemnation is predicated on the outcome of the affair. An affair is an affair is an affair.

[FrBunny]

John's just shilling for Big Pullout.

[TrickyVic]

"""I think having an affair is a bit different than having a bastard.""""

Someone is wrong about John being a GOP shrill. The GOP supports the idea that sex should only be between married folk.

Joke about him being married in 3, 2, 1...

[Robbie Clark]

Yeah basically TAO. It's harder to fight the government currently (though lots of people oppose through whatever peaceful means they can frequently) because of the power it already holds. By nature, in a power vacuum no one holds it and non-evil types can prevent evil types from seizing power while at the same time not seizing it themselves. I think that's what you missed. I wouldn't for a second imagine that "good" people seizing the power would actually be good or stay good even if they started that way. I'm not imagining a utopia where this works perfectly of course, but I think a much better situation could be achieved in this manner.

[mantooth]

Robbie,

The American Revolution? You've lost me there. Was there a point in the 1700's where the acting government abandoned its posts and "the evil types" took power but were defeated by "good people"? I'm sure to be corrected if I've forgotten it.

[Seitz]

You going to tell me that running off for a few days with some woman is the same thing as having a kid that you are paying what amounts to blackmail money to mother.

Would you make up your fucking mind? First you argue that having a kid with a woman who isn't your wife is much worse than simply fucking a woman who isn't your wife, yet you can't explain why. Now Edwards is much worse not just because of the kid, but because of the hush money and the cover-up.

So instead of simply saying "Ya know, you're right. Now that I think of it, the kid isn't the problem. It's the cover up." To which everyone would have said "yeah, I can agree with that." But no, you're too much of an ass to admit you had an indefensible position the first time, so you need to try to slip new elements in to bolster your argument. You'll note that this is one of the reasons I said you were disingenuous.

[MNG]

"Now he and John Edwards can form a support group, but Spitzer isn't allowed."

He's allowed to watch, isn't he? He might be into that.

[Robbie Clark]

Apologies mantooth, but what I was referring to was just the fact that evil does not always win because of a power vacuum, which existed in America during the Revolution.

[MNG]

Bunny: I'll suck your cock for a thousand dollars.. Brent can't watch, though, or he has to pay a hundred.

[Bill Woolsey]

Seitz:

Why do you think Sanford is a theocrat?

Do you have evidence of this? Or is it just anti-Southern prejudice?

I am from South Carolina. We have plenty of "theocrat" politicians, and Sanford doesn't doesn't make the grade by South Carolina standards.

He has always focused on reducing the size and scope of government, not on using the power of government to promote "family values."

[mark]

If we were in Saudi Arabia, this wouldn't be a problem. Sanford could just say, "Find me four men who can prove I had an affair" and that would be the end of it.

[Fluffy]

Again, it is the consequences of the action that matter.

John, I have to say, the way you keep repeating "bastard" over and over, it sounds as if you have some extremely reactionary opinions about "bastardy" itself.

Like the reason you think that the consequences here are so different is because bastards are unclean personages and bringing one into the world sullies the world or something.

I hate that empty suit John Edwards, but it's not like he impregnated some unwed housing project mother and the kid will now be a drain on the taxpayers for 18 years. So I'm kind of at a loss to discern how his affair is worse than an affair with no issue.

[MNG]

"We have plenty of "theocrat" politicians, and Sanford doesn't doesn't make the grade by South Carolina standards."

Dude, the Ayatollah Khomeni doesn't made the grade by S. Carolina standards...His "liberal" stoning policy...

[MNG]

"So I'm kind of at a loss to discern how his affair is worse than an affair with no issue."

Well, his wife did have cancer...I think Sanford is the lesser douche...

[Ska]

I could see why having a child from an affair is worse - you're depriving your wife and family resources that you would use on them to support your child with the other woman - and that lasts as long as you support the other child.

[ChicagoTom]

Well, his wife did have cancer...I think Sanford is the lesser douche...

Seconded.

I also kind of think that having a child with your mistress is SOMEWHAT worse than merely having a mistress.

One could simply end an affair and move on. When you have a child from that affair, not so much. Unless you try to skirt parental duty...which makes you an even bigger douche.

[Rich]

> America dislikes weird.

Look around a bit. Care to reconsider?

[alan]

I still say it shouldn't be nearly as disqualifying as turning down badly needed stimulus money. An affair is wrong but understandable. Turning down the money is wrong and bats**t crazy.

--Noam Scheiber

On a recent tour at Mammoth Cave National Park, Noam Scheiber is quoted to saying "what the fuck is that?" after the tour guide told him to be careful not to step in the guano.

[alan]

Noam Scheiber - "Just had dinner with the Speaker. She looks sane to me."

[Seward]

I am so glad that I do not pay attention to the "news." BTW, Sanford was recently at a CATO function talking about REAL ID if I am not mistaken.

[Michael Ejercito]

"Why should anyone care? He's not running for anything any longer."

It happened while he was running for something, if I recall.

[Mad Max]

'As far as the abortion goes, last I looked abortion was legal. If the mother of his kid decided to have one, that is not really mine or anyone else's business. They say consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds for a reason.'

Someone else already pointed out that the canonical version of that quote refers to a *foolish* consistency.

And Argentina's abortion law is quite restrictive by U.S. standards. I suspect that if the abortion were done in Argentina, the authorities would certainly consider it their business.

Let us not take a cramped, North American - centric view of this issue. Latin American human rights treaties tend to support the right to life of the unborn. See, for example, Article 4.1 of the Interamerican Convention on Human Rights:

'Every person has the right to have his life respected. This right shall be protected by law and, in general, from the moment of conception. No one shall be arbitrarily deprived of his life.'

[Seitz]

Why do you think Sanford is a theocrat?
...
He has always focused on reducing the size and scope of government, not on using the power of government to promote "family values."

Bill, I'm not sure I ever made such an assumption. And from scanning my posts in this thread, I still don't see it.

Though, since you ask, He was one of the scheduled speakers at the Family Research Council's "Values Voters Summit". Emphasis on "was". So it sounds like he's a family values type, which of course isn't the same thing as a Theocrat, but again, I don't believe I made such an accusation.

I'll also note that it's extremely difficult to find a Republican who was active in politics ten years ago who missed an opportunity to moralize over Clinton's blow job.

[alan]

"it's been said *ahem* elsewhere, but she was brought up from the minor leagues too early."

I really disagree with this sentiment. The Eliza Doolittle treatment no matter how you went about it would not work with her. She is who she is and what she is is not of the Presidential calibre.

Bless her for refusing the stimulus, but if she wins the nomination the race will be nothing short of an amateur hour nightmare.

[Mad Max]

Argentina ratified the Interamerican Convention in 1984, shortly after it got rid of the military junta which had been ruling the country before then.

[..]

Wow, this thread sunk faster than MSNBC's credentials.

[Tulpa]

Sorry, John, but Seitz has your number. Why is "cheating" OK, but "cheating that results in a child" somehow morally reprehensible?

If I drive drunk, and a pedestrian just barely gets out of my way when I blow a stop sign and speed away into the night, it's not a big deal if I don't come clean about it afterward.

If I drive drunk, and that pedestrian doesn't make it out of my way when I blow that stop sign and then speed of into the night after hitting him, it IS a big deal if I don't come clean.

My actions were the same in both instances, but the differing results require different actions on my part after the incident is over.

[Craig]

The one time in my life I'm inclined to agree with Michelle Malkin.

No, the word she used to describe Mr. Sanford has to do with one's parentage, not one's lack of marital fidelity.

How old will Ron Paul be in 2012? No one has ever questioned his family values, or his small government credibility....

[Tulpa]

How old will Ron Paul be in 2012?

He'll be 76, and his (deserved or not) reputation as a nutjob makes him absolutely not a substitute for Sanford. Jeff Flake would be a better target for libertarians to support in the GOP, though he also has no chance.

[Bill Woolsey]

seitz:

Sorry. I confused you with Shrike! He is the one who said Sanford was a theocrat.

Anyway, Sanford is not a "family values" type. He is rather a Johnny one-note on smaller government.

Well, I think Sanford is a "family values" type in his personal beliefs. He appears to be the worst womanizer in the entire world. All the evidence so far is that he really did fall in love with Maria from Argentina, but is tortured with guilt about leaving his wife and children. I really don't think he is going to get much street cred with the macho types.

But in terms of politics, the Christian Coalition took over much of the Republican Party over the last couple of decades. Sanford wasn't part of that crowd.

Remember when McCain ran against Bush in 2000, and McCain criticized the Christian Coaltion? Sanford supported the McCain campaign.

As far as I can remember, he has never provided leadership in fighting social conservatism or promoting "social liberalism." He is not a principled libertarian on social issues (or so he told me, years ago,) but he is very skeptical about the ability of government to promote morality. And spouting slogans, much less attacking gays or whatever, is not his way.

I have no idea what Sanford was going to say at the Family Values Council, but I went to their convention in 2007. They had a straw poll for President and I went to vote for Ron Paul. Huckabee won.

I met Sanford at the traditional Libertarian tax day protest in 1994. He showed up and spoke to the handful of libertarians with our anti-tax signs at the post office on the four corners of law.

Some years later, he came and spoke at a Lowcounty Libertarian meeting. During that period, he was in Congress focusing on private Social Security accounts. We discussed the war on drugs at that time.

I have corresponded with him from time to time over the years. I have also run into him at various events.

MNG:

Apparently, you have never been to South Carolina. No stonings.

You should visit Charleston sometime. Come during the Spolteto festival in early June.

Very nice. Many fine restaurants. They serve beer and wine and.. mixed drinks. And even on Sundays!

In the Lowcountry, there are more religious people than in other sections of the country. Like the governor, I am an Episcopalian. Unlike the rest of the country, where this is a tiny elite church, here is is more than 10%. While conservative compared to other Episcopalians, theocracy isn't our way. My particular parish is strongly against having the church bless gay marrianges and having openly gay priests and bishops. On the other hand, for many years there was a gay couple that played a leadership role as laymen in our church. It was a bit, "don't ask, don't tell." Toleration, yes, but let's not be obnoxious about it.

Also, for those secularites out there, I don't know what it is like in other churches, but in my parish, the general line is. we are all sinners. I sometimes think that others think the Christian message is, "we are the righteous, and the other people are sinners."

[zoltan]

So how is Edwards worse than Sanford for having a bastard? I don't see how everyone here is trying to rationalize it. It's pretty much a matter of luck and chance, but at least Edwards didn't pressure her to have an abortion or leave her to fend for herself. He took responsibility of the situation (even though he's still a rat bastard for cheating on his wife). Cheating is cheating, if it results in a child the situation in itself is worse, but the difference in character of the person of cheats is not.

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