The "Eugenics Card" and the Culture Wars
Legal historian Paul Lombardo, author of the excellent Three Generations, No Imbeciles: Eugenics, the Supreme Court, and Buck v. Bell, has posted a very interesting looking new article to the Social Sciences Research Network. Here's the abstract for "Disability, Eugenics, and the Culture Wars":
The eugenics movement provided the motive for dozens of laws that remained in force for more than a century in the United States, a significant number of which specifically targeted people with disabilities for legally sanctioned discrimination. Similar laws were adopted around the world, perhaps most notably as part of Hitler's prelude to the Holocaust. Consequently, we tend to associate the word "eugenics" with all things evil. Yet the underlying message of eugenicists was popular for so long not solely because it denoted coercive legislation but more often because it signaled a hopeful future devoid of social problems. This paper describes how the word "eugenics" is now coming back into common use, and how it has been revived in the service of political objectives, divorced from the period in which it developed and the meaning it had within its earlier historical context. The resulting distortions—directly traceable to the ongoing "culture war" over reproductive rights—suggests that we should be careful when we play the "eugenics card" lest rhetorical zeal eliminate the possibility for honest debate.
Lombardo touched on similar points when I interviewed him last year about Three Generations, No Imbeciles. Here's one such exchange:
Q: Does the idea of eugenics still have any appeal?
A: Most people, if given the option, would vote to have less of a burden of social welfare costs and lower taxes. That's a popular idea for all of us. The argument that's made during the Buck case is that you get there by doing away with the people who generate those costs.
The real problem is that we all still feel that way today. Not that we want to be Nazis, and not that we want to re-enact eugenic laws. But we all still are looking for solutions to social problems and ways of managing the inevitable social burdens of crime, poverty, and disease. The hope that we can find those solutions is of course still with us—and should be, I think—but what we use as a means toward those is of course the question. I argue in this book that one of the things we shouldn't use is the power of government through coercive medicine. When governments start deciding who can have children, they almost always botch it.
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I prefer stirpiculture to eugenics. It sounds more fun!
When governments start deciding who can have children, they almost always botch it.
Why the "almost"? Is there a government that didn't botch it?
I'm all for trying to solve social problems. It's only when the solutions involve killing, sterilizing, or imprisoning people who appear to have the wrong genes that I blow the whistle. Which, strangely enough, was a common proposed method of eugenics movements (even St. Margaret Sanger!).
This guy may mean well enough, but it's a lost cause. The word has been sullied by the people who used it to describe themselves. It's like trying to rehabilitate the word "inquisition" to refer to a constructive, polite, non-coercive campaign to ensure that church officials were teaching the real faith.
he should get together with margaret sanger.
"We want fewer and better children . . . and we cannot make the social life and the world-peace we are determined to make, with the ill-bred, ill-trained swarms of inferior citizens that you inflict on us."
"The most merciful thing that a large family does to one of its infant members is to kill it."
"Birth control must lead ultimately to a cleaner race."
"We should hire three or four colored ministers, preferably with social-service backgrounds, and with engaging personalities. The most successful educational approach to the Negro is through a religious appeal. We don't want the word to go out that we want to exterminate the Negro population. and the minister is the man who can straighten out that idea if it ever occurs to any of their more rebellious members."
"Eugenic sterilization is an urgent need ... We must prevent multiplication of this bad stock."
"Eugenics is ? the most adequate and thorough avenue to the solution of racial, political and social problems."
"Our failure to segregate morons who are increasing and multiplying ... demonstrates our foolhardy and extravagant sentimentalism ... [Philanthropists] encourage the healthier and more normal sections of the world to shoulder the burden of unthinking and indiscriminate fecundity of others; which brings with it, as I think the reader must agree, a dead weight of human waste. Instead of decreasing and aiming to eliminate the stocks that are most detrimental to the future of the race and the world, it tends to render them to a menacing degree dominant ... We are paying for, and even submitting to, the dictates of an ever-increasing, unceasingly spawning class of human beings who never should have been born at all."
"The undeniably feeble-minded should, indeed, not only be discouraged but prevented from propagating their kind."
"Give dysgenic groups in our population their choice of segregation or sterilization."
GATTACA
Am I the only one who misread the headline as "Playing the Culture Card in the Eugenics Wars"?
She is a superior woman, I will keep her
Whenever I hear the word culture I reach for my Browning.
Margaret Sanger sounds like a lot of libertarians on this board.
Of course, everybody feels there are too many morons in this world, without ever thinking he is part of the problem rather than outside it.
KHAN!
I wanted to like that film, but it started off on the wrong tack with Blair Underwood explaining how embryos were not human life but "human possibilities". It also portrayed fornication with Uma Thurman in a positive light.
I got the feeling the message was more of a "don't mess with Mother Nature" thing than concern for the destruction of "excess" human lives, which should be front and center in the debate. I personally have problems with the idea of tinkering with human genetics for reasons other than alleviating suffering, but see no justification for imposing my beliefs on that matter on others. Dismembering embryos is a deal-breaker for me, though.
We offered the world order!
I am a eugenics survivor!
Margaret Sanger sounds like a lot of libertarians on this board.
To their credit, they don't offer the coercive solutions she did. To me that makes a big difference.
Of course, the near-worship of the woman in some circles is more disturbing.
Wasn't Khan supposed to be ruling a quarter of the world by now? Or is the official explanation that Mark Twain being won over by Counselor Troi's feminine wiles in Time's Arrow somehow changed history to prevent the Eugenics Wars...
Who is Kira Yamato?
Until the progessives apologize for eugenics, I won't trust a one of them.
It also portrayed fornication with Uma Thurman in a positive light.
Kinda hard to tell, crimethink, but it sounds like you didn't like that about the film.
Three generations of Tonys are enough.
There exists an underlying truth to eugenics or as I prefer to call it human animal husbandry that makes most people very uncomfortable.
The human species, like all others, can be bred to reinforce some traits and minimize others. These traits include intelligence (however defined) and temperment. I am NOT proposing the selective breeding of people, but the results after 10 generations would certainly be interesting as hell.
Those who prefer increased governmantal involvement in every other facet of our lives profess that line will never again be crossed. I think they are wrong. It will be. It's a natural progression of the nanny/paternalistic state.
Until the progessives apologize for eugenics, I won't trust a one of them.
They are still keeping us safe from dangerous drugs and un-inspected food!
I'd like an apology and retraction for that too.
I am NOT proposing the selective breeding of people
Why not? If it's consensual, it's the least kinky sexual practice I can think of. If it's not, then it's not much different than any government practice of providing perverse incentives to achieve a goal the actor doesn't have.
Is this the "eugenics hasn't really been tried" argument? All that forced sterilization and killing was a perversion of the good intent?
Thought I would just state the obvious. It's not the place of government to solve the problems they seek to solve with eugenics. Societies problems are not the governments problems....until they are made to be.
Kinda hard to tell, crimethink, but it sounds like you didn't like that about the film.
As a child of the light, I have no place for the desires of the flesh.
[Ace Ventura 2 reference, for the uncultured...but I disagree with his "meditation" activity that follows this quote]
Sadly I have to admit being logically drawn to the idea of eugenics in the past, despite the horrible connotations... but what's allowed me to escape that conclusion is hope for the coming wave of genetic engineering. It's no longer necessary to talk about forced control of breeding... however it may lead to forced control of genetics. I'm not sure that's any better, but it's certainly more acceptable to the 'civilized' masses.
If the government was in charge of reproduction, I would think they would want simple minded folks that would follow along and vote reliably.
brotherben,
In that case, near-universal contraception among intelligent people seems to be doing the government's job for it....
Of course, as an intelligent non-reproducer myself, I'm just as much to blame for denying females my essence altogether. So I shouldn't throw a stone from my glass house of celibacy.
Shutup, crimethink. I'm trying to watch "Ow My Balls."
In that case, near-universal contraception among intelligent people seems to be doing the government's job for it....
When reason goes underground, and we're all eating rat burgers, and they're selling personal ads in the back to stay in the black and orange, I will have the appropriate language ready, thanks to your comment.
The future of the human race salutes you.
Even if they didn't "botch" it, there's the minor concern of government deciding who can have children.
Shutup, crimethink. I'm trying to watch "Ow My Balls."
Your chart says you talk like a fag and your shit's all retarded. Don't worry, my ex-wife's a tard and now she's a pilot.
Someone should study Los Alamos, NM, as an example of volunary eugenics. It's a secluded town in the mountains that has the highest concentration of Ph.D. scientists in the nation (due to the presence of the Los Alamos National Laboratory). In a state (NM) that is at or near the bottom of all the best-educated-students type of lists, Los Alamos Public Schools is always at or near the top of the "best schools in the nation" type lists. It probably has nothing to do with the teachers or funding levels...it's all genetics and parental expectations.
Until the progessives apologize for eugenics, I won't trust a one of them.
Not that you should trust "progressives", but I see no reason to expect anyone of any political persuasion to apologize for repulsive ideas held by someone else ostensibly in their political "camp".
For instance, there are racists who embrace libertarian ideas as a means to allow them to practice their racism. Should I, as a libertarian, be expected to apologize for them?? Fuck no, I'm responsible for myself, not for anyone else, regardless of whether they associate themselves with the same political label as I.
It seems likely to me that this debate will be moot. Within two to three generations, we will no longer be allowing our childrens' genes to be chosen by random lottery, nor should we. Everyone will be reasonably intelligent, reasonably attractive, and reasonably healthy, for a very reasonable price.
So sayeth our benevolent robot overlords...
Yeah, well, I meant it for the best.
All you fuckers who support eugenics can suck my nuts.
I got a solution - you're a DICK!
"The Greatest Canadian", Tommy Douglas, "founder" of Canadian Democratic Socialism, was in favor of eugenics laws. Fuck that piece of shit. Some fucken cannuck had the nads to mention this prick while trying to tell me of the virtues of economic control in our asshole neighbor to the north.
The logical conclusion of government intervention, especially for the "good of the citizen", is a totalitarian government. It's no wonder, then, that eugenics plays notable parts in socialist tracts.
Interventionist government by expert has no natural boundaries, and only one natural predator.
The world would almost certainly be a better place (by my metrics, at least) if some pretty broad swathes of the commoners didn't breed. But it would almost certainly be a worse place if some authority were able to regulate that. Actually, that's my political philosophy in a nutshell.
I do think that people, given freedom of reproduction, should be responsible for supporting their brood. An enormous amount of my tax burden goes into subsidising other people's genes. I'm not insensible to the argument that I benefit from future generations being born, but- the way things work now I subsidize the infant who will grow up and cure my cancer to the same degree that I subsidize the infant who will grow up to knock me down and break my hip while mugging me when I am well into my senescence.
As long as I subsidize people's reproductive choices, I do think I should have some say in them. I'm picturing a regime involving me going around and examining each couple (kind of like child protective services, but in a more prophylactic sense), and in many cases using something like a combination barbecue lighter/bug zapper to just reach up and seal the womb off.
Alternatively, people could pay the full costs of reproducing, and I'd be willing to keep my womb-zapper out of it.
I think that if they could invent a passive birth control that you had to take a pill to turn off, many problems would fix themselves.
Of course we'd be just as likely to notice 50 years later that we're all sterile, but it probably beats our current path towards Idiocracy.
Repealing zoning restrictions to lower housing costs so that young couples can start families would help maintain a healthy gene pool better than any eugenics program. The DNA of our gametes degrades a bit in our thirties.
I think not conceiving is already the default state. I don't know about you, but in my experience, it takes conscious effort to get my gametes anywhere near where they could fertilize an egg. It's not like I wake up on random mornings with an ovulating woman next to me.
Beer: the original fertility drug.
Nice beatdown on the eugenicists . . . my only regret is that you didn't leave any for me.
'Yet the underlying message of eugenicists was popular for so long not solely because it denoted coercive legislation but more often because it signaled a hopeful future devoid of social problems.'
Sure, their ideas were immoral, but they promised us all a bright future! What could be wrong with that?
'I'm not insensible to the argument that I benefit from future generations being born, but- the way things work now I subsidize the infant who will grow up and cure my cancer to the same degree that I subsidize the infant who will grow up to knock me down and break my hip while mugging me when I am well into my senescence.'
Maybe the mugger would simply be trying to recover some of the payroll taxes you forced him to put into your pocket.
Mad Max:
"Maybe the mugger would simply be trying to recover some of the payroll taxes you forced him to put into your pocket."
That requires a certain suspension of disbelief (the box on your tax return that allows you to declare ill-gotten gains is almost always left empty [though I do like the story of the old Yankee farmer who thought about it a bit and eventually wrote "None of your goddamned business" in that space]; muggers, like waiters, tend to declare less than their total earnings), but if we ignore that... I'd say that the answer is simple and in line with my philosophy.
Just as I shouldn't be required to directly subsidize other people's children, their children shouldn't be required to subsidize my second childhood. That way I don't have to forcibly abort them, and they don't have to mug me.
Walker Percy writes an amusing scene in an essay, I forget which collection, where a scientist is whacking off into a specimen jar at the same time he is talking on the phone to a general about a weapons program and some questionable testing with human subjects. Percy asks, is this what we want? Breeding programs that emphasize Los Alamos levels of brilliance, but fall short on a morale gene if there is such a thing.
Well anyway, worthy of discussion, but being the product of such a program I have a conflict of interest. Supervilliany is its own reward.
but fall short on a morale gene if there is such a thing.
Yeah, it seemed strange to me too that he would use as a contrast to brilliance a gene that gave a person the ability to boost the confidence of collective bodies of people. That came out of nowhere in the argument he was making, I was expecting him to contrast a brilliance gene with a moral gene.
"but it probably beats our current path towards Idiocracy."
The Idiocracy is not a destination but a way of life.
@ Fred-
That is not how is babby formed.
So, you're not James Bond.
Damn, this is funny. Where is this reference from?
If Terry Crews can be president, it's not a complete loss.
how girl get pragnent?
When governments start deciding who can have children, they almost always botch it.
To be fair, just go to a Chuck E. Cheese and you'll see that a lot of private actors botch it without any government interference.
Thanks, Kolohe!
Oh, man...
If the government was in charge of reproduction, I would think they would want simple minded folks that would follow along and vote reliably.
Given that you get more of what you reward, and less of what you punish, I would say that lefty wealth redistribution is likely to achieve this end.
Incredible to believe that this kind of sad unbelievable Psychos ever existed on this beautiful interesting "home of all of us"