Money, Money, Money: Jon Stewart on Abba, Taxes, and Sweden
In case you weren't watching, on Monday The Daily Show explained to its viewers that, contra those loony libertarians, socialism works quite well, thank you very much. From the Comedy Central blog: "This week on The Daily Show, [correspondent] Wyatt Cenac traveled to Sweden for a two-part segment about Socialism, which, according the the (sic) conservative pundits, will be arriving on US shores any moment to rape your pets and force you to work in a borscht factory. Considering the racial homogeneity in Sweden though, you have to think it pains the Fox News crowd to hate on them."
Both segments can be viewed here.
Not a particularly funny bit, considering the available material, but a few points about the total awesomeness of Swedish social democracy and the show's but-we're-only-joking case for the Swedish model. (They are, after all, making a serious political point in an unserious way.) Cenac's interview with ex-Abba frontman Björn Ulvaeus, during which he attempts to get him to admit that the song "Money, Money, Money" is a paean to American capitalism, leaves one with the impression that the millionaire songwriter is rather pleased with his country's glorious socialist history. Well, no.
In 2007, the Stockholm daily Dagens Nyheter (DN) reported that governent "authorities claim[ed] Ulvaeus, using the services of a tax haven company, concealed millions in music production income to avoid paying taxes." DN points out that "Since 1990 Ulvaeus royalties have been collected in a Dutch company, now known as Fintage. The company made a deal with the tax haven company Stanove, on the Dutch Antilles, to transfer 95% of [Abba's] royalties there." And avoid giving it to a mother desperately in need of a second year of maternity leave.
Nor is this a new issue for Ulvaeus. In 1982, before the Social Democratic Party returned to power on promises of soaking the rich, the Christian Science Monitor reported that Abba's manager Stig Anderson was "deeply concerned by the threat of a Socialist takeover of his [business] empire. 'If we had had these funds today, we would have been forced this year to part with about $US2.16 million…Why should I continue to work 14-15 hours a day to give money away like this?…We don't want to leave Sweden. Our roots are here. We have our friends here. I intend to stay here and fight these funds even if the Social Democrats are elected. But if it becomes impossible, of course it would be very easy for us to move out.'"
After explaining the benefits of high taxation to Cenac, former culture minister Leif Pagrotsky is asked, with the Daily Show's trademark faux jingoism, how Sweden could possibly be better than the United States. Pagroysky quickly reels off "free health care," "free education," and Ingmar Bergman. We can quibble about whether any of this qualifies as "free" (the family Moynihan just paid our Swedish taxes, and believe me, it ain't "free"), but after his presentation on the brilliance of a high tax burden, Pagrotsky might have acknowledged that in 1976 Swedish authorities arrested Bergman on charges of tax evasion. In response, the director ripped the ever-expanding Swedish government bureaucracy which, he wrote in a letter to the newspaper Expressen, "grows like a galloping cancer" and very publicly decided to abandon the country for West Germany. Such outbursts were—and still are—frowned upon for those lorded over by Jante's Law. As one of his Swedish biographers noted, the "Social Democratic press campaign" against the director lasted into the late 1980s, after he had returned from exile.
On a related note, Bergman's political views were often heterodox, as demonstrated in his 1988 autobiography The Magic Lantern. Here he is bellyaching about the radicals of the 1968 student movement:
"It is possible some brave researcher will one day investigate just how much damage was done to our cultural life by the 1968 movement…Today, frustrated revolutionaries still…do not see (and how could they!) that their contribution was a deadly slashing blow at an evolution that must never be separated from its roots. In other countries where varied ideas are allowed to flourish at the same time, tradition and education were not destroyed. Only in China and Sweden were artists and teachers scorned…"
Last year, I explained to The American Prospect that, no, everything we think we know about Sweden isn't wrong.
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Nicely done, Mike.
Not only that, but Sweden has [GASP] complete and total school choice for any and all Swedish kids through a universal voucher system.
Wow, that was powerfully unfunny. When did The Daily Show ditch making fun of the news for full-on advocacy pieces? Between this, the Jim Cramer beatdown and Stewart's "take me seriously, dammit!" tone, I'm confident I made a good choice when I stopped watching a couple years ago.
the Christian Science Monitor
Aw, Michael, you lost all of your credibility with the Left by quoting them.
Maybe more of it by complaining about excessive taxation 😉
For the love of god stop giving this hack legitimacy. He's a fucking comedian and a shitty one at that.
the Christian Science Monitor
Aw, Michael, you lost all of your credibility with the Left by quoting them.
Maybe more of it by complaining about excessive taxation 😉
You have to be kidding? You do understand the weight CSM is given by most in the journalism world for being nonpartisan and a fairly honest source of information? Knee jerk reaction to the word Christian, troll, or complete retard. I can't decide someone make the call.
So, John Stewart is moving to Sweden, right? I'm sure they have a strict immigration policy, but surely they will allow in an enthusiastic new rich taxpayer.
The winking eye 😉 is usually a give away that a person is not serious. So the first sentence I quoted, right back at ya.
What about me! I'm way more revolutionary than those wusses in Sweden! Pay attention to me, assholez!
Um, shouldn't this piece be, you know, a lot longer? Why not a 10,000 word piece on the nefarious impact of Ellen Degeneres? I mean, she's a damn lesbo, which is practically the same thing as a socialist, if not worse. And don't get me started on Oprah. Don't even get me started.
"I mean, she's a damn lesbo, which is practically the same thing as a socialist"
Kudos to Alan Vanneman for his heroic slaying of the terrible straw man!
Honestly, Alan, this is subpar trolling even for you.
Ever notice the strong liberal tendency to present the opinions of foreigners in a monolithic fashion?
When did The Daily Show ditch making fun of the news for full-on advocacy pieces?
You're just a racist who doesn't like having a Black man in the White House.
Didn't you get the memo? It is uncool to be anti-government now.
I thought it was pretty funny. Showing the redistribution of wealth using 5 cute blondes = win.
I've tried watching The Daily Show several times over the last few months, and haven't been able to get through more than a few minutes of it.
In the past, Stewart was really the only unfunny part of the show. Now, the rest of it is as unfunny as he is.
As a former Canadian, and currently very happy resident alien in the USA, I'll take my higher salary, better job opportunities, plasma television screen, satellite TV, portable gaming systems, MP3 player, SUV, laptop, smart phone, and Kindle over the lower standard of living, diminished job opportunities and the wonderful "social safety net" any day of the week.
It's the same old Daily Show, nothing has changed. But now that Bush is out of office, it stopped being funny. Sort of like what happened to Rush after Clinton left.
I think it important to note that Sweden only has a population of 9 million. If New York city bought a few fighter jets, they could be a country as big a Sweden. Sweden is also massively geographically and culturally uniform compared to the U.S. Things that are accepted and which work in northeast Sweden also work and are accepted in southwest Sweden.
I've never really understood why, all other factors aside, people think that the Swedish experience can be transplanted to our population of 300 million composed of every ethnic group and religion on earth who are spread out over a continent in every environment from tundra to tropical paradise.
Shannon,
I have felt this way about socialism for a long time. The smaller and less diverse the group the better socialism works. (The nuclear family, case and point) I really wish liberals would get this and enact socialist values on their own homes and communities, instead of concentrating on national power grabs.
Take a look at TheLocal.se, Swedish news in English. Jon Stewart apparently didn't--shockah!--but it can be quite interesting. Current headlines involve a paedophile bust, a moonshine bust in Uppsala, a shooting in Stockholm, and naked Swedish crispbread dancers going global.
Ever notice the strong liberal tendency to present the opinions of foreigners in a monolithic fashion?
You're right, we do overstate the world's loathing of Bush. I apologize for leaving out the land area consisting of Halliburton's footprint.
I remember a documentary on Sweden called "Promise of Spring" (I think). The crew kept finding young people hanging around at night getting drunk. When asked why they were doing this, the frequent reply: "No one cares."
Shannon Love
Not only does Sweden only have a population of 9 million, but they're all Lutherans.
Oh, yes, I know they all say they're atheists, but what has kept Sweden going is a strong protestant work ethic and a sense of personal responsibility.
One of the things that's making things unravel is that with each generation fewer and fewer have that feeling and more and more come to see the social "safety net" as a hammock.
Shannon nailed it. I hadn't ever thought about it that way, but you're exactly right. Well said.
One of the famous economists said something to the effect of "There is no poverty in Sweden.. funny there is no poverty among the Swedes in the US either."
"One of the famous economists said something to the effect of "There is no poverty in Sweden.. funny there is no poverty among the Swedes in the US either." "
I think it was Milton Friedman who said that.
On a few other points: Sweden is less homogeneously Swedish than it used to be, from what I've heard, and some of these new immigrants aren't as socially responsible as the Swedes are, causing some at least poverty problems. Also, isn't Sweden more of a mixed ecoonomy anyway?
I can't wait to see Stewart's face kicked-in a few hundred times when he is thrown into a Stalinist camp.
Kinda hard to laugh when you have no teeth, eh bitch-boy?
thank you cuernimus
hmm, get it now?
All you really need to do is check the emigration numbers, and compare with the immigration numbers. They're public information at http://www.scb.se
20.000 Swedes leave the country every year, and go to Norway, Finland, USA, Australia and other countries. (This is net figures, it's not balanced by the same numbers "coming back after a few years abroad" as some people try to spin it. Easily verified by subtracting immigration numbers from emigration.) This has been going on for at least 15-20 years.
Between 3-4000 of them go to the USA, while less than 1000 americans each year move to Sweden. So it seems people really dont seem to prefer the Swedish welfare model to life in the US. Imagine that.
I am shocked!
A gloss of the complexity of State versus State taxation on the interwebs! Appalling!
1. Sweden is capitalist. Perhaps more so that the Good Ole US of A, to whit: Sweden has the highest percentage of multinational companies in European. (Think Ikea, Volvo, Ericsson, Saab, ABB, Skanska, etc.)
2. Ten percent of Swedes are foreign born
3. Sweden no longer has the highest income taxes in the world, that honor goes to neighbor Denmark.
4. If you earn about 30,000 a year, your tax rate in Sweden is equal to Massachusetts or New York City. Plus you get:
- Free health care from hangnail to brain surgery
- Free eduction through University
- Subsidized mass transit
- 18 months paid maternity leave at 80% salary
- Generous unemployment benefits when the banks go belly up
- Cheap hydro and wind power
- A number one ranking from the UN as the world's most gender equal state
No wonder Sweden is cleaner, safer, more family oriented, healthier, sexier and full of all those fun things like flat screen TVs, Volvo SUVs, fancy cell phones, DIY furniture, etc.
My god, if you people just visited here, you would think "This is amazing. Why is Philadelphia such a dump in comparison?"
But please don't because you will bring your nasty ignorance and there is enough of that in France.
"I've never really understood why, all other factors aside, people think that the Swedish experience can be transplanted to our population of 300 million composed of every ethnic group and religion on earth who are spread out over a continent in every environment from tundra to tropical paradise."
Of course, you could day much the same to poo-poo the much heralded (by libertarians) model of Hong Kong. That place is a fricking city btw.
Sweden is internationally like NYC domestically for libertarians; by all rights it should be an impoverished Stalinist hellhole if you take half of the libertarian rhetoric on this site as gospel on what follows certain policy enactments, but they continue to be vibrant, prosperous places, maybe it's God spiting you libertarians?
Of course TAO should appear and wave his hands in a ritualistic fashion and utter "post ergo hoc" in his talismanic fashion to take away this empirical inconvenience.
Oh sure, Socialism works. How could anyone question that simple "fact"?
Everyone knows that human beings act in the best interest of their community, or borg. No human that has ever lived has attempted to act in their own best interest! So, obviously, socialism works! Sweden's "success" doesn't have ANYTHING to do with natural resources! It is simply the efficiency created when the government coerces people to do what they say, for the good of all, of course. Think the American South before the Civil war. COERCION should be the basis for ALL human activity, says the Leftard. How could Freedom and Economic Liberty be "good"?
Stalin? Mao? They were not REALLY Socialists, but "Communists" which is completely and totally different. One, the government runs everything and the other allows a few hosts to survive so that the parasites have something on which to feed.
If bureaucrats assimilated by the "borg" are not the most efficient form of government what could be? It seems obvious on the surface.
Being a Leftist is about the complete denial of self. Like ALL human beings, the Leftard acts in what he sees as his own best interest. In the case of many Leftists, they believe that stealing from the successful is in their best interest.
One does not have to wonder what will happen to the parasites once they kill their hosts.
To MNG -
Forget your nanny world view for a moment and keep this one thing in mind: What I produce (money) is mine and you or anyone else has no right to it except for what *I* determine. The percentage of theft by the government for taxes is purely arbitrary and based on who whines the loudest. Taxes are fine... jacking them up for purely punitive reasons or because people don't want to produce for themselves is really what's unfair.
The other problem here is that the word "free" is used as if there were no cost to anyone. Ok, so maybe (such as the USA), there are people who pay almost nothing into the pot? for them it's just about free. But the reality is that nothing provided or facilitated by the government is free. Maybe learn economics and understand tax burdens? So tell me again how it's "fair" that I'm *forced* to pay into the system and other people don't pay anything yet they are entitled to these benefits? News flash: The progressive tax system is unfair in any country.
Now go back to the DailyKos and get some new foil for your hat.
"Sweden is internationally like NYC domestically for libertarians; by all rights it should be an impoverished Stalinist hellhole..."
And it most certainly would have been one long ago if Sweden, along with every other Western nation had not been getting military protection welfare from the United States for about 60 years or so.
The eastern block Communists would have swallowed them all up.
I think it's also important to note that Sweden was for a century one of the world's most significant exporters of weapons and raw materials with military-industrial significance, while the rest of the developed and undeveloped world clawed at each other's throats.
Sweden's quasi-socialism was not a closed system, and the military spending of the great powers - and the not-so-great powers - helped that system function a great deal.
The wealth of NYC doesn't confuse me at all, "empirically". NYC sits at the apex of the world's most successful [semi]capitalist system, and the wealth and spending sucked in from elsewhere and thrown off by that system's ruling class is more than sufficient to compensate for bad local law. Saying that socialism is responsible for NYC's success is like saying that mosquitos are responsible for the health of cattle. Systems of parasites will always do better where the hosts are.
Let me sit out two world wars, get lots of Nazi gold by selling iron ore, sit out the military expenses of the Cold War, and make lots of money selling weapons to third world dictators, and I bet I will be able to afford getting bled by higher taxes too.
I've already deleted my Daily Show season pass.. And Colbert? well, he's ON NOTICE...
the family Moynihan just paid our Swedish taxes
That sounds kind of dirty to me. I imagine two people going into a room, some time passing, then the door opening and one walking out looking ashamed/embarrassed, the other happy and victorious, and the ashamed one muttering about having just paid his Swedish taxes.
Sweden's median income is on par with that of African-Americans...
"The wealth of NYC doesn't confuse me at all, "empirically". NYC sits at the apex of the world's most successful [semi]capitalist system, and the wealth and spending sucked in from elsewhere and thrown off by that system's ruling class is more than sufficient to compensate for bad local law. Saying that socialism is responsible for NYC's success is like saying that mosquitos are responsible for the health of cattle. Systems of parasites will always do better where the hosts are."
Indeed.
Even that twit Bloomberg acknowledged as much when he criticized the proposed New York tax increase on "the rich" when he pointed out that they paid almost all the taxes already and the city would be in deep do-do if a significant number of them decided to pick up and move.
Sorta funny that the Daily Show used Bergman and ABBA front man, two Swedish tax cheats to bolster their position for Socialism.
Not that the Daily Show is a serious news organization or anything...
Kevin: I gave up on the Daily Show in the runup to the 2004 election, when it became clear they considered themselves the comedy wing of the DNC.
Shannon: Once when challenged that "There's no poverty in Sweden," Milton Friedman replied: "There's no poverty among Swedish-Americans, either."
If you earn about 30,000 a year, your tax rate in Sweden is equal to Massachusetts or New York City. Plus you get:
- Free health care from hangnail to brain surgery
- Free eduction through University
- Subsidized mass transit
- 18 months paid maternity leave at 80% salary
- Generous unemployment benefits when the banks go belly up
- Cheap hydro and wind power
- A number one ranking from the UN as the world's most gender equal state
No wonder Sweden is cleaner, safer, more family oriented, healthier, sexier and full of all those fun things like flat screen TVs, Volvo SUVs, fancy cell phones, DIY furniture, etc.
No one ever said you couldn't make life better for the least productive 60% of society by stealing lots of money from the most productive 40%, but that doesn't make it right.
To Jeremiah Foster:
What is your tax bill in Sweden if say your income is 60,000, 90,000, ...?
Well, since you asked, it goes up pretty quickly. 😉
Everything over 350,000 SEK (lets say roughly $40,000) is taxed 52%, and it goes up after that too. In the past the tax rate went up as high as 80% on parts of your income, but that is mostly fixed now.
This is not to say there is not a serious problem with the taxes in Sweden - they are clearly too high. Money flees the country encouraging a brain drain as well, though many come back home once they have earned their fortune in the US or Norway.
Sweden has some ugly negative sides as well;
- Implicit and explicit racism (a Nazi party might make it into government next year.)
- 25% youth unemployment
- High labor costs not least because of tax on labor
- Lack of entrepreneurship, this is a serious problem that the government talks about tackling but cannot due to serious cultural impediments
- Jealousy and distrust of money and success. Any Swede will tell you it is a serious problem in their country, and the Nordic region in general
But then again, corporate taxes are about the same as in the US, if not lower. And the country is very democratic - high taxes is what the people want, the government is always trying to lower them but if you do you get thrown out of office.
It is also true that the vast majority of their defense budget has been gutted the last twenty or so years and they have a sizable foreign deficit, though they run a surplus domestically. So they have a great deal of fiscal probity, but a culture that loves the social welfare net that covers them from cradle to grave.
They vilify libertarians as being selfish war mongers, and with Greenspan, Cheney, Bush, et. al. how can you blame them?
Jeremiah Foster, your comment of April 25, 2009, 12:02pm seems to have been offered in a spirit of civil discourse as opposed to the open hostility on display in the one on April 24, 2009, 6:01am.
Sorry Kreel - I apologize if I was openly hostile. 🙂
I was trying to be sarcastic and bombastic. Oh well.
"Lack of entrepreneurship, this is a serious problem that the government talks about tackling but cannot due to serious cultural impediments"
The question here should be: CAN the government "encourage" entrepreneurship in any significant way? What exactly do they plan to do? Give subsidies? And then...where do they get the revenue to pay for it? Taxes? But then, much of the entrepreneurship problem is because of high tax rates, so...
In any case, most comparisons of single countries to each other in terms of economic performance are apples to oranges. Overall, greater economic freedom correlates to higher productivity and economic growth. There are, of course, other factors that influence these stats, but it's more reliable than just saying
"Hey, country X with economic system A has many desirable qualities compared to country Y with economic system B, and therefore economic system A is better than economic system B."
"And the country is very democratic - high taxes is what the people want, the government is always trying to lower them but if you do you get thrown out of office."
I highly doubt they get thrown out of office for lowering taxes. More likely it's because that would involve cutting spending-and the majority of Swedes are wedded to the welfare state such that they can't stand not having 18-months maternity leave at 80% salary.
"they have a sizable foreign deficit, though they run a surplus domestically"
What exactly does that mean? I'm not being truculent here, I'm really just curious?
"I highly doubt they get thrown out of office for lowering taxes. More likely it's because that would involve cutting spending-and the majority of Swedes are wedded to the welfare state such that they can't stand not having 18-months maternity leave at 80% salary."
The difference being?
Feel free to come to Sweden and ask around a bit if you people ever do a Tour of Europe in the summer. It's really hard to explain the benefits of living in the US to a Swede who has never been there, and in the same way a US citizen almost has to be in Sweden to understand the benefits.
Having been living in both I can tell you that the systems work well for the middle class, but there is this difference.
US: Lot's of energy (entrepreneurship, investments, newly built stuff) in the system, but there are some overlooked parts where investments could boost the community and make life feel safer. (People worrying 24/7 are very inefficient)
Sweden: Neat and well ordered, someone has thought about most things and found a "common sense"-solution. The BIG drawback is how this pre-made "helping everyone"-system effectively dampens energy and the incentive for some people to work really hard.
If you want to share a community where your fellow man feels forced to work hard and contribute then go US. If you prefer that your fellow man feels secure (which in turn makes the community feel more safe) then go Sweden.