Thanks for the Lack of Memories?
The New York Times is reporting that neuroscience researchers at Brooklyn's SUNY Downstate Medical Center have developed a drug which can erase memories (at least in lab rats). This development may bring us closer to the scenario outlined in the the 2004 Jim Carrey and Kate Winslet vehicle, The Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind, in which two hapless lovers have the memories of their failed love affair erased. As the Times reports:
Suppose scientists could erase certain memories by tinkering with a single substance in the brain. Could make you forget a chronic fear, a traumatic loss, even a bad habit.
Researchers in Brooklyn have recently accomplished comparable feats, with a single dose of an experimental drug delivered to areas of the brain critical for holding specific types of memory, like emotional associations, spatial knowledge or motor skills.
The drug blocks the activity of a substance that the brain apparently needs to retain much of its learned information. And if enhanced, the substance could help ward off dementias and other memory problems.
So far, the research has been done only on animals. But scientists say this memory system is likely to work almost identically in people.
Such a power raises ethical questions:
"This possibility of memory editing has enormous possibilities and raises huge ethical issues," said Dr. Steven E. Hyman, a neurobiologist at Harvard. "On the one hand, you can imagine a scenario in which a person enters a setting which elicits traumatic memories, but now has a drug that weakens those memories as they come up. Or, in the case of addiction, a drug that weakens the associations that stir craving."…
Yet any such drug, Dr. Hyman and others argue, could be misused to erase or block memories of bad behavior, even of crimes. If traumatic memories are like malicious stalkers, then troubling memories — and a healthy dread of them — form the foundation of a moral conscience.
With regard to the relation between a moral conscience and memory, it would seem that the sort of person who commits heinous crimes is the sort of person who can already overcome the aversion that might be sparked by the memory of his victims' sufferings, or may actually enjoy such memories.
The Times notes that research on erasing memories may also shed light on how to strengthen them. The article then goes on to worry that if a pill that enhances memory becomes available that a memory arms race might break out, enabling some people to outcompete others. Actually, this seems more like a recipe for making people with poor or failing memories more equal to those who have steel trap memories naturally. In addition, there may be network effects that boost everyone's productivity simply because we all live and work in a world of people whose memories are better.
Whole New York Times article here. Go here for an earlier Reason.com discussion on the morality of erasing memories.
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I forgot what I was going to say here.
I don't see how a drug could just erase specific memories & not all your memories.
This really does bring up some ethical issues. Let's say I lost a foot, which I think counts as a traumatic loss. Could they make me forget that I lost the foot?
The important thing is... Dr. Hyman.
With the exception of three King Crimson albums, feel free to eliminate my memories of the 80s...
So it's like alcohol, but without the side effect of banging fat chicks.
I've been using a drug to erase my memories for years. They call it booze.
Warty,
Why do you buy fat chicks drinks? Won't they do you for free?
A somewhat effective method to erase memories is to join one of the major political parties.
You'll most likely about all the bad policies your party was responsible for.
Start buying up bottled water now!
the 2004 Jim Carrey and Kate Winslet vehicle, The Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind
Not Ron's point at all, but I think of a "vehicle" being a movie like Ace Ventura, Happy Gilmore, or Under Siege 2, where the point is to get a star on screen to do his currently-bankable thing.
Gondry/Kaufman doesn't seem to fit the mold. Did I make that definition up?
High, you know you're in real danger when the fat chicks start buying you drinks...or at least you would if you weren't already shitfaced.
Ban fat chicks. For the (drunk) children.
I thought that was the whole point to alcohol.
Also, what Cabeza said. Would anyone want to be part of a trial study of this drug?*
*OK, maybe if your life really sucked.
I work in related research, and we think this sounds cool.
It's cool to note that Eternal Sunshine was actually very loosely based on the research done in another field of memory modification research (reconsolidation theory). One of the people we work with occasionally was called to discuss it.
Art, one of the main uses for memory affecting treatments is Post-traumatic stress disorder, which can be characterized many ways, but is often considered a problem with an overly strongly stored memory.
Newest date rape drug?
Of course, this research is BS because we all know the mind isn't the brain.
I would kill for this drug. Booze only works so well. The fat chicks thing is just for Warty and other dumbasses who can't control themselves.
If the drug only prevented or restored memory loss, sure it'd be great, but taking memory away? Just what I want in the hands of government officials.
Here, take this.
Episiarch,
Ether no longer effective?
Tofu, the amyl nitrate gives me a colossal boner and the ether takes it away. No good.
No Dollhouse references?
In joe's absence, I am taking over his inability to use tags.
IT'LL HAVE TO COME OUT! ALL THE BITS OF IT!
Maybe if you could fix your tags, rob.
Besides, Echo only remembers what Topher lets her remember.
...he said, nonsequiturly.
From the description in the article, the drug isn't actually "erasing" memories but preventing them from transitioning from short-term to long-term memory. If a memory isn't stored in long-term it will naturally fade after less than 48hrs. There are a lot of substances that can prevent this transition.
At best, it looks like they've got something that can create retrograde amnesia.
Epi,
Echo only remembers what Topher lets her remember
Sure, after Friday's episode. But I expect the glitches will keep reoccurring.
I wonder if the fix will become less effective with repeated use, like in A Deepness in the Sky?
Uh, I just connected Joss Whedon to Vernor Vinge. I think I just won the internets.
Warty, the Spanish subtitles make it all worthwhile.
No Dollhouse references?
I don't have the heart to get into another Whedon venture, only to have it smashed when FOX cancels it.
Not gonna do it...
From the description in the article, the drug isn't actually "erasing" memories but preventing them from transitioning from short-term to long-term memory.
You see, I have this condition... did we talk about this already?
At best, it looks like they've got something that can create retrograde amnesia.
So, cops kick in your front door, dose you up, hold you for 48 hours and let you go. You'll remember you were held, but not that the cops kicked in your door or why.
We're finally making steps towards the glorious future envisioned by Philip K. Dick. I'm gonna go hide under the bed with some guns now.
Shannon,
The way memory works may involve re-storing the memory (if LTP is it, then LTP) after it is accessed. Imagine taking a book off a shelf and then putting it back on again. If you have something that can stop someone from putting books on a shelf, it can be used at t1 to stop the initial memory, or possibly at t2 to prevent (some) of the memory from being re-recorded.
Uh, I just connected Joss Whedon to Vernor Vinge. I think I just won the internets.
No, to win the internets you have to connect Joss Whedon to Heinlein.
FOX cancels it
Dollhouse has gratuitous scantily clothed women, so it stands a chance on FOX.
Dollhouse has gratuitous scantily clothed women, so it stands a chance on FOX.
That's what I have my finger's crossed for.
The worst rumor I've heard is that Whedon is contracted to Fox for his next TV project as well. They get an accept/reject up front, just like DH.
Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind is the best Philip K. Dick adaptation yet.
Dollhouse has gratuitous scantily clothed women,
You had me at scantily. I'm in!
Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind is the best Philip K. Dick adaptation yet.
Dick just doesn't translate well into film. I'd still like to see someone take a swing at Flow my Tears, The Policeman Said, though.
How about a movie adaption of The Pre-Persons just to watch the outrage?
No, to win the internets you have to connect Joss Whedon to Heinlein.
The agents are so indoctrinated in The Puppet Masters they believe their cover stories to the point of suppressing libido (Dollhouse.)
That's the closest I can get, and that's tenuous at best. The "leave me alone" libertarianism of Firefly is Heinleinesque, but not due to a direct influence. The Rolling Stones doesn't come very close.
Get your ass to Mars.
I think Ubik could be made successfully (it's in negotiations.) Time Out of Joint could be made into a good film, but it would have to be a period piece to really work well, and they'd have to soft pedal the paranoia. Eye in the Sky would be a good one for Linklater to rotoscope.
A Scanner Darkly is the closet to the experience of reading PKD as has been brought to the screen, but it is tainted by the "Whoa."
How they managed to adapt Radio Free Albemuth is beyond me, but it's done and awaiting distribution. It stars Alanis Morissette, so I'm not holding my breath.
I really want them to do Flow my tears, but I doubt it could be done well.
Honestly though, I think PKD's best work is in his short stories, not his extended short stories (what are sold as novels).
I would love to see Minority Report with the original plotline. It was great, and could be so easily expressed in film.
It stars Alanis Morissette, so I'm not holding my breath.
Instant. Death.
yeah they are called benzodiazepines
I think Ubik could be made successfully (it's in negotiations.) Time Out of Joint could be made into a good film, but it would have to be a period piece to really work well, and they'd have to soft pedal the paranoia. Eye in the Sky would be a good one for Linklater to rotoscope.
Didn't I hear somewhere The Man in the High Castle was being done? That strikes me as pretty doable. And soft-pedaling the paranoia really ruins Dick, doesn't it?
I have a running bet over whether or not Amy Acker is an active.
Im on the no side, but I could be wrong. Until Ep 7, I did consider the possibility that the Director was an active. But she responded to the drug like a normal human.
I have a running bet over whether or not Amy Acker is an active.
Seeing as it's almost a given that Alpha sliced her up, I'd say she was an active.
Robc,
I really thought the director was one. I'm not entirely sure she isn't, but it does seem less likely now.
And soft-pedaling the paranoia really ruins Dick, doesn't it?
I mean in the sense that they don't beat you over the head with it, let it slide into the story not announce it with a ringing bell.
lib dem,
If the director is an active, then Joss will have to cheat in a way he normally doesnt do. Coming up with an explanation about her reaction to the drug would be lame. Not explaining it would be even lamer.
Epi,
Alpha slashed up actives and handlers. I dont think her being slashed means anything. Her living thru Alpha's attack, on the other hand....
I dont think they hire back ex-actives. Either she is an active with an imprinted doctor personality or she is a doc for hire. Both are possible and I think they are intentionally not letting us know (she wasnt in the drug episode - she was walking to the light with the dolls in the last one - but it turned out to be her idea to fix the gliches).
I go back and forth on Acker being an Active, but Alpha not killing her is going to be a plot point. I wouldn't be surprised if she's the mole that triggered Echo's message to Ballard. (Whether the doc knows she's a mole is another matter entirely.)
The director might be the mole. Acker might be the mole. And then again, there might not be a mole. It might be a really weird red herring for Ballard.
To be the mole, you have to know enough to muck with the programming without Topher knowing (or he is the mole). It could be his assistant from that one episode. I think both the director and doctor could pull it off.
Knowing the way Whedon does things, who is the first semi-major character to die?
I thought it was going to be Mel, I didnt expect her to be November.
It could be his assistant from that one episode.
All the other options make sense as well, but during that episode, the assistant seemed so right for a mole. She just seems like too minor a character overall to be likely.
rob, that mole on your ass might be the mole.
All this talk of moles is making me hungry...for a young Cindy Crawford.
I go back and forth on Acker being an Active, but Alpha not killing her is going to be a plot point
Absolutely. She has a bigger role to play, count on it.
Knowing the way Whedon does things, who is the first semi-major character to die?
The security chief could go without anyone caring.
That's a Charlie Kaufman movie more than it is a Carey/Winslet.
Dollhouse has gratuitous scantily clothed women, so it stands a chance on FOX.
That's what I have my finger's crossed for.
Interesting technique, lib dem.
I think it's more likely for criminals to use the drug to erase their victim's memory of the crime. Although they already have methods to do this, such as blunt head trauma and alcohol.
Maybe in the end, that's all we have. The Memory Gospel.
I'd like to forget all the joe threadss from the last three months before he left, so I can remember him as he was when he was cogent.
People with a steel-trap memory don't want to be able to remember even more. There was a Russian dude (I forget the details) who worked in a side-show because he pretty much couldn't forget. He ended up committing suicide because he couldn't have a conversation with anyone else as a result of every spoken word triggering memories of different occasions where he had heard that word before.
Here is a link to a story kinda about him.
I guess I'm lucky. I wasn't here when he (apparently) went off the deep end.
Well, if we're lucky, a Sith Lord won't stumble upon him and turn him into his dark troll apprentice (think Edward/Lefiti)